let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthew. from washington let me start with, the propaganda war for 2014 has begun. the man who wanted to destroy the obama presidency is out with the first big firebomb of misinformation about the irs problem. mitchell mcconnell who set his heart on limiting obama to a single term is now declaring that the -- well he's declaring there was a coordinated campaign there out of the white house to use the levers of government to target conservatives and stifle

speech. this language is based on nothing. no evidence of any white house involvement with the actions over there at the irs. if there was, don't you think mr. mcconnell the senate leader would be dancing in the moonlight? if there were a scintilla of evidence ed evidence that he was involved would you believe that they wouldn't use it to nail the president into a political coffin right now? give me a break. a cheap charge you take when you're out of ammo and only thing you have to throw is your shoe. joy is here and john fury republican strategist joining us tonight. let's take a look right now. mcconnell spoke to conservatives at the american enterprise institute and his speech was a rabl rousing 25-minute unloading on the obama administration entitled the continuing assault on the first amendment focusing

heavily on the irs. but before the show we showed you the tape. first facts about the irs controversy. here's what we know and everyone else knows, we know that no conservative group that was scrutinized for its activity had its tax-exempt status denied. not a one according to the ig report. we know it was a republican irs manager, a man who happened to be a republican in charge of the division in quo here and a screening manager under him under the republican who came up with the improper targeting criteria on his own. we know this thanks to transcript released from elijah comings and like i said all the evidence shows the white house had no involvement that didn't hold back mcconnell. take a listen here. >> what matters isn't whether they were doing it in washington or cincinnati. that's not what matters.

what matters is the culture of intimidation. this culture the president and his allies around any group or person that spoke up for conservatism so, no i don't believe the president ever picked up the phone and told somebody over at irs to slow walk these applications or audit anybody. but the truth is he didn't have to. he didn't have to do that. the message was clear enough. >> let me go to you on this john. i don't know where you stand but i cover the news every day here and read the papers starting at 7:00 in the morning and yet i looked at elijah cummings. he has given us all the evidence he's been able to collect and, of course, we've listened to everything darrell issa the chair of the committee said and i have yet to hear one piece of evidence that anybody from the president's campaign anybody from his team or camp broadly

defined, anyone male female had anything to do with the screwup over at the irs. so why does mcconnell now blame him for that as he were somehow a puppeteer sends the message doug schulman and lois lerner. and why would anybody intimidate the president? what evidence do you got? how about answering the question first. i know this is a heat-chasing show. i love heat but let's start with facts. do we have a fact of a connection? >> well, as mitch mcconnell said there's no evidence the president called over to the irs. >> let me go to the further quote. he talked about it being a coordinated campaign that led to this happening from the president. now what you saying here the

president was involved in the irs mess or not? >> i think what mitch mccome is saying and let's back up on mitch. he has been a fierce advocate for the first amendment since the beginning of campaign finance reform and fought against the idea of cracking down on political parties and believes firmly in the idea we should have a political system that has a strong political party system. i do think that he believes and i tend to agree with him the president has done his best to demonize his opponents especially going after the koch brothers and all these tea party groups and i think he said that with the irs -- >> mitch mcconnell is accusing someone else on the other side of demonizes? he's the most personal attacker. it's always about obama and i'm getting rid of obama and exterminating him from washington. that's how mcconnell operates. it's always personal. just again is there any personal connection, draw your line connect your dots any way you

want between the president and his people and these bureaucrats, using that neutrally, over at the irs. why would these bureaucrats respond to anybody? they're in there for life and headless nails. >> we have plenty of evidence of in intimidation. these groups were asked about their personal beliefs. >> you said that the irs officials were intimidated by the president. >> i said the -- >> why did they do what they did? >> i don't know. >> good answer. that's where i want to g it's fair. i don't know either. i don't think there's any evidence than these people trying to do their jobs. >> i think you got to the points i would have made. look barack obama does have something to do with this. barack obama's election created this intense reaction on the right. such that a tea party was born

that hated bailouts so much when barack obama was president didn't really mind them when george w. bush starteded them but their reaction was intense such you had not 1700 which was sort of the average number of 501.5 0 10 5011c4s but 3750 of these groups proz purpose was to rinse barack obama out of this. remember what was on the signs. he's a kenyan. he's a fraud. he a witch doctor. >> that sounds like demonizing him. >> that's what john says the president does. you're sounding like mitch mcconnell demonizes people. >> he said his top priority in the midst of a recession, a depression nearly and his top priority was to deny barack obama a second term before he completed one-fourth of his first term. you had a republican party whose

young guns in the house met on inauguration eve to plot the total obstruction of anything this president -- >> you're fabulous and john fury was on the defensive. the end of this but one of the leading proponents and practitioners of this debunked idea that you can change your sexual orientation is apologizing to the gays and lesbians he's hurt. don't worry, other organizations have emerged to take its place. plus we wouldn't normally pay attention to the collapse of a farm bill but what's become of the house of representatives. you can't predict what's going to happen to immigration later this summer. joe biden charges republicans -- i love this old time language a bunch of malarkey. this guy is pretty old school. isn't he?

finally let me finish with the need for free medical clinics to those who have no alternatives. this is "hardball," the place for politics. and while that leaves a little room for balls and tees, it doesn't leave room for much else. there's no room left for deadlines or conference calls. not a single pocket to hold the stress of the day, or the to-do list of tomorrow. only 14 clubs pick up the right one and drive it right down the middle of pure michigan. your trip begins at michigan.org.

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get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. welcome back to "hardball." this show we've often talked about the march toward gay rights in this country whether it's polls showing increasing support for those people who prominent people voicing support generally for the whole question of marriage equality and other

issues. we've seen hillary clinton for example put out a video declaring her support for gay marriage. here it is. >> lgbt americans are our colleagues, our teachers, our soldiers, our friends, our loved ones. and they are full and equal citizens and deserve the rights of citizenship. that includes marriage. >> well, that's the way most of us think. jason collins made the cover of "sports illustrated" when he came out as the first openly gay american playing in a team sport. alan chambers is one of the po poentss of gay therapy, the ideaed that therapy can help a gay person turn straight. he's the president of the organization and posted the an apology saying "i am sorry that some of you spent years working through the shame and guilt you felt when your attractions, sexual attractions didn't

change. i'm sorry we promoted sexual orientation change efforts and reparative theoryies about sexual orientation that stigmatized parents." here's part of the speech. >> while there has been so much good at exodus there has also been bad. there have been people that we've hurt there are horror stories and i'm not telling you this for any other reason than to be honest and tell a true story about this ministry. in 37 years we haven't done everything right. because we're a bunch of humans we've hurt people. we've helped people but we've hurt people. they told stories of abuse and pain missed opportunities,

awful words that were spoken to them them, stories of abuse and pain from the church and even from exodus. >> wow, well joining me is wayne basin, executive director of truth wins out and psychotherapist laura berman. this is a sensitive subject and i can only imagine what it's like to be a young boy or girl and realize orientation may not be the same as the majority of your classmates and what they're used to and live with that secret for a long time and wonder who to confide in and maybe you final find someone to confide with and be told all that time there's something basically wrong with you and then to be told if you pray enough or you go to the right therapist you can get this fixed because it really is something wrong that is a problem. let me ask you about this wayne, i know you don't agree. tell me what you think is the hurt that's done by the organizations we just talked about where they basically bring you in as patients then you're

going to be cured. >> that's exactly right. they demean people and dehumanize and tell them they're not whole, complete good enough and there is a threat for many young people of being thrown out of their house, of being rejected by every part of their community that they grew up with and it's devastating and the worst part they go to groups like exodus and they're told that they can change and when -- intestify play it fails because it always does then the victim is blamed for this failure and we have seen everything from suicides we've seen meme who have been horribly depressed or who slowly kill themselves through alcohol and drugs because they don't think they're good enough. they believe they're inferior and it's refreshing that exodus is closing down. you cannot pray away the gay and i'm glad alan chambers believes that. >> i'm concerned about the phrase. sounds derogatory. what does that mean? >> that is's exactly what they do. they go and ask and plead on their hands and knees to jesus to cure them of their

attractions to the same sex and they do other things such as fasting and also they are made to wear rubber bands on their wrist occasionally. when they see somebody attractive, they snap it. one big obstacle course of idiocy that makes the person feels worz when it doesn't work and it never works. >> can someone -- we have people who have dangerous proclivities of child molestation and things like that and can go through the whole range of sexual things you want to change about yourself. let's take something quite dominant, straight people gay people. born that way, i believe. i think it is nature and isn't nature the way you believe, in other words, if it's something you're born with it's probably less likely to be dealt with by modification and therapy. >> reparative therapy is based on the assumption that gay is a choice and it's not a choice. >> really. a choice no wait a minute. let's stop right here.

attraction is not air choice. you either pick "playboy" or "playgirl." that reaction is impulsive. what do you mean by choosing? >> that is the assumption. that with be like me telling you, chris, i'm going to put you through reparative therapy to help you learn you cannot be a man. you can be a woman because, you know and you know you're a man. >> does it ever work. >> it does not work. this is something the american psychological association has -- 15 years ago they came out in opposition to this establishing this does not work looking at study after study. the people who go through it as you heard first of all just being gay, as you mentioned, in this country today in 2013 the incidence especially among younger people who haven't come out yet, the incidence of drug addiction, of sueicideal acts are

higher and put them through a religious group and not only do they feel like they're a failure but have a crisis of faith because god has betrayed the them in their mind so they have nowhere to. >> i'm in my 60s. the country i grew up is different than what i lived the in now. words like queer thrown around 20, 30 years ago, campy reasons use used the. today acceptance it's gone beyond tolerance to acceptance not quite the celebration yet but certainly full understanding and acceptance in a positive way. what do you think the difference is today for a young person 12 13 who says i think i'm that way? how is it different? i want some hope there. i hope there's some. >> there's lot of hope. equality is an unstoppable

freight train. someone today knows they can be anybody they want and there is no limits on succeeding in this country today. there's a good chance if they come out they'll be loved and accepted by their parents, their friends, perhaps even their churches so i think that the world has changed dramatically even from when i came out in 1988. it's incredibly refreshing and i think it is only going to get better. >> keep it up better. wayne, thank you so much and dr. laura berman first time i think i've had you on. on a lighter notion joe buyen wields his signature line charging the republicans with a bunch of malarkey. isn't that healthy. this is "hardball," the place for politics. s, yes she is. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. 100% vegetable juice with three of your daily vegetable servings in every little bottle.

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ns take on the week of international news. first steve colbert says farewell to mahmoud ahmadinejad's presidency in iran. >> we're finally saying gooded bye to president mahmoud ahmadinejad -- ahmad-na-na. - never wearing a tie with a suit. evidently they don't have father's day over there. my rivalry with m achltahmoud when i was promised the cover of in the newsweek" magazine and the axis

of stubble over here evidently got wind that have so he starts developing nukes just to get himself on the cover and push me up to the golden corner. seven years later he's gone "newsweek" is gone and look who is still here. >> david letterman takes on vladimir putin for possibly pocking a super bowl ring back in 2005. >> are you aware of the fact that vladimir putin stole a super bowl ring from the owner of the boston patriots. here's what else he's been up to. take a look at this? violence. we are continuing to strengthen our cooperation on this issue include ing including we welcome the winter olympics. >> well actually i really do think that vladimir putin clipped robert kraft's super bowl ring. i really do think he grabbed it.

next the godfather meets reality. remember robert duval's character? he played tom hagen, a lawyer for the corleone crime family. the trial of james "whitey" bulger is going on in boston and guess who showed up at the courthouse to see what was happening. there's robert duval leaving the courthouse. he sat in the back of the courtroom with other spectators. he's in the area shooting a movie with other big name actors like billy bob thornten and robert downey jr. joe biden brings up his signature word to talk about immigration reform. >> all this stuff you heard the last six months about the astronomical cost of immigration reform it's by bunch of malarkey. >> a bunch of malarkey. that got a lot of play during the vice president debate this past election getting over 30,000 mentions on twitter after biden's response that paul ryan

regarding the benghazi controversy. >> with all due respect that's a bunch of malarkey. >> miriamwebster.com says thanks to biden malarkey was a top search for 2012. finally, it's been a big week for hillary clinton, of course even though she personally has done nothing to indicate her future plans. missouri senator claire mccaskill has become the first to endorse her for president in 2016. turns out negativity has begun too. enter stop hillary 2016. that was launched by matt rhodes, the former campaign manager for mitt romney's bid. it's them against the pacc krchltc.

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