good sunday afternoon. i'm craig melvin. you're watching msnbc. here's what's happening right now. i'm not going to talk about where he's headed, or what his plans are. i think it's up in the air. i'm not actually where he's headed. he's my source for these stories so i'm not going to talk about where i think he's going. >> leaker on the run. edward snowden, the man who released details about top-secret surveillance programs flees hong kong. where he is this afternoon, how he got there, and how the united states plans to get him back. also, blockbuster week. we're expecting major supreme court rulings on gay marriage, education, and voting rights. also ahead --

>> i'll be fulfilling a life-long dream, a dream that came to me when i was a teenager. little did i know at 34 that dream is about to come true. >> a seventh-generation daredevil will try to cross the grand canyon on a tightrope without a harness. what nic wallenda says is the only thing that can stop him now. first, though, fast-moving developments in the case of nsa leaker edward snowden. we start with nbc's ian williams in hong kong. >> reporter: craig, good day to you. edward snowden had indicated that he wanted to stay in hong kong, and fight extradition, because he saw this as a good legal base. some worried they might defend his rights up to a point. instead of that, he flew out this morning bound for moscow, seemingly with the blessing of the hong kong authorities who say they were powerless legally to prevent him from leaving.

they blame that on shoddy american paperwork. they say the request that came from washington didn't fully comply with hong kong law. and had to be returned for more information. now, that has surprised some legal experts here, who say that these requests are usually more of a formality. they're easier to grant than a full extradition request. they don't require the same amount of detail. and there have been some questions asked here about whether hong kong has been acting in good faith, or just wanted a hot potato, a difficult problem off its hands. both hong kong and beijing, i think, did not relish the prospect of a long and complicated legal battle which could have been quite embarrassing for them. and this will come as a great relief in both cities, that the guy is off the premises, and has now become somebody else's problem, craig. >> ian williams starting us off there from hong kong.

kristen walker is at the white house now. i understand you just got new word from the state department in regards to snowden's passport. what can you tell us about that? >> reporter: well, craig, according to state department producer catherine choemiac she said the state department has in fact revoked edward snowden's passport. we just got a statement from state department spokesperson jensacki, she says, quote, as is routine and consistent with u.s. regulations, persons with felony arrest warrants are subject to having their passport revoked. such a revocation does not affect citizenship status. persons wanted on felony charges such as mr. snowden should not be allowed to proceed in any further international travel, other than is necessary to return him to the united states, because of the privacy act we cannot comment on mr. snowden's passport specifically. that is from state department spokesperson jen saki. all of this comes as we've learned that snowden has arrived

in moscow. and according to our producers there, he's bought a ticket to havana. we believe he's ultimately headed to ecuador. that's according to wikileaks, a news organization behind a number of other high-profile leaks. that organization saying that they are helping snowden with his plans, and helping him to essentially evade the united states charges that he is facing. now, i have spoken to a legal expert in international law who says that countries can accept people without passports. so in other words, the united states has revoked edward snowden's passport, but that doesn't necessarily mean he won't be able to continue with his travel plans. we also understand from officials in ecuador that he has asked the foreign minister there for asylum. he has requested asylum. this continues with a number of twists and turns, and legal ramifications, craig, and continues to get more complicated.

but the united states at this hour, outraged by the fact that hong kong allowed him to leave. yesterday they had put in an extradition request with hong kong, urged hong kong to act quickly on that request. that did not happen, as you heard, ian williams spelled out why that essentiallidom come to pass. i'm told president obama was updated briefed earlier today, and he has continued to get updates throughout the day and that will continue into the evening. >> you mentioned havana. our nbc producers in moscow also reporting he has bought a ticket for cuba. at this point, do you know if there have been any conversations about trying to perhaps intercept him there? >> reporter: well, what i can tell you, craig, is that senior administration officials are being very tight-lipped about what is going on behind the scenes. what they have said is they are in contact with all governments who are potentially involved with edward snowden right now. so you can take that as an

indication that they are in touch with these governments, trying to urge them to get snowden to come back to the united states. but as of right now, no indication that that's going to happen anytime soon. >> kristen welker from 1600 pennsylvania. kristen, thank you so much for that. >> reporter: thank you. >> for more on what's become an international manhunt and diplomatic dilemma it presents, i'm joined by new york congressman peter king. congressman, first of all, at this point, how confident are you that the united states is going to be able to extradite snowden? >> it's going to be very difficult. but again, we should do all we possibly can. by the way, i do not excuse hong kong or china. i don't believe their story about more information being needed. that always happens in extradition cases. you're supposed to hold a person until that issue is resolved. they wanted him out of there. to me, the president should have

put more pressure on china and hong kong. he couldn't have landed in russia unless putin was on to it and allowed it to happen. where we're at now, i think we should make it clear that to russia, if they allow him to leave the country to ecuador, to cuba, having said that, there has been talk recently of cuba to try to smooth relations a bit with the u.s. obviously that has to be off the table, if they allow him to come through cuba, to venezuela, or to ecuador. ecuador more likely. ecuador, again, whatever diplomatic, financial pressure we can bring on them, we have to do it. this person, snowden, is putting american lives at risk. what he's done is absolutely disgraceful. i consider him a traitor and defector. for these countries, hong kong and china in one category, and the russian government, to allow this to happen is a, to me,

disgraceful. certainly we expect more from china and russia. >> congressman, not to cut you off here, but what you just said, you said before, that snowden is putting american lives at risk. precisely how is he doing that, based on the information that has been released so far? >> he has made it clear to our enemies what we are doing, the capacity we have. they already are adjusting, doing things differently to make it harder for us to detect them. and it also has weakened our position as far as dealing with china. it has compromised our allies, particularly the british. it weakens us -- the countries which weakens our defenses against al qaeda. now, snowden has also said he has the information on all our intelligence agents around the world. and then he said he's not going to release them. but the fact that he says he has that information is a threat. like holding a gun to someone's

head and saying, i could kill you, but i won't. this is maybe the worst leak ever released. we talk about depending on parties, that's all moot. they were already five, six, seven years old. this is current. this is what we're doing right now to protect ourselves. >> you don't accept this idea coming out of hopping kong, saying the paperwork was shoddy. >> i think first of all, both those countries do carry out cyber attacks against us. they are hacking into us all the time. and when we -- we've been obviously opposing that, speaking out against it. it weakens our position. they wanted to show how outraged they were. they didn't want to be involved in sending snowden back because the u.s. is not popular right now in china, or in russia to some extent.

snowden has become kind of a hero. and so china and russia felt it was better for them to send snowden on his way. also, we don't know what intelligence they've gotten from snowden. >> quickly here, congressman, before i let you get out of here. what does this do to our diplomatic relationship with russia at this point? >> i'm going to go across the party lines and agree with senator chuck schumer, who says this dramatically causes us to examine our relationship with russia. to me what russia has done here is a diplomatic slap at us. and more than that, it's really a diplomatic punch. president obama can't go back to business as usual. we have to take whatever diplomatic, or economic action we can to let them know that

this is unacceptable conduct. and it's not the type civilized nations carry toward each other. >> congressman peter king, thank you. >> thank you. let's get to dana millbank, and bob franken, for king features, and joe watkins, republican strategist and former aide to president george h.w. bush. good morning to all of you. >> good morning. >> bob, as we're all keeping tabs on the globe trotting edward snowden, there's still a debate basically whether we're focusing on the wrong thing here. mcclatchy newspapers today reporting that the obama administration has essentially declared war on leakers. from the article, quote, president obama's unprecedented initiative, known as the insider threat program, is sweeping in its reach. it has received scant public attention, even though it extends beyond the u.s. national security democracies to most

federal departments and agencies nationwide, including the peace corps, the social security administration, and the education and agriculture departments. bob, you've covered washington for a long time now. how has this administration's treatment of leakers been different from previous administrations? >> well, it's a matter of degree. this administration has had more investigations, about leaking, and according to the mcclatchy article this would extend beyond intelligence. it would extend to people who leak nonintelligence, from various agencies, who could face some sort of recrimination if they didn't play ball and just keep quiet. it's really interesting to see what's going on now. it's also interesting to hear congressman king talking about how this weakens the position of the united states, complaining about hacking from china. the way it weakens it is, it exposes the fact that the u.s. is doing the same thing. >> you wrote about congress and

its oversight, or lack of oversight on the nsa surveillance programs this week. the congressional oversees of the intelligence agencies are captivated by the people they're supposed to be supervising. what's happened to the oversight, dana? >> i think you've got a couple of things going on here. you've got a republican party that's been kind of onboard with these programs all along, going back to the bush administration. and then you've got a democratic party that doesn't want to challenge this president, although they would if there were a republican president. so i think you've got very lax oversight going on here. i think unfortunately, snowden rather than being some sort of a hero who is leaking information to get a debate going here, now appears to be having all these dalliances with our foes overseas. so he's no longer seen by very many people at all as a sympathetic figure. so i think that will undermine a

lot of what he did to try to expose these programs and to create this debate. >> they were asked what the administration should do about snowden. listen to the response. >> they should use every legal avenue we have to bring him back to the united states. if he really believes he did something good, he should get on a plane, come back and face the consequences of his actions. >> joe, should he return as a proud patriot or should edward snowden keep running? >> i think he's going to keep running. i agree with the congressman, he needs to be taken into custody as soon as possible, because he's a danger as long as he's at large. and obviously besides the information that he holds, that he's threatening to use against the american interests, there's also the damage that's already been done with regards to our efforts to rebuild our relationship, or to strengthen our relationship with various countries, whether it's russia or china or cuba.

so he needs to be taken into custody right away. i disagree. this is very, very bad for the united states. and snowden is a very, very dangerous man. he needs to be taken into custody. >> but the thing is, he's not going to return to the united states. >> no, i don't think so. >> his mama didn't raise no fool. he's going to find some other place to live where he can get some protection, and hope there isn't some rendition effort. >> he's going to be running again and again and again. i don't think he's going to find any safety anywhere. >> well, you say he'll continue running. or do you think we're going to see sort of a -- the same thing we saw with julian assange, where he ends up holed up for a long period of time? go ahead, joe. >> i'm sorry. one or the other will happen, either he'll be taken into custody by the united states, or he's going to find somebody that will give him safe haven. but he won't last there very long, i don't think.

>> dana, the former cia operative forced to resign when her identity was released. she wrote something in "the guardian" today, this story has nothing to do with edward snowden. his fate is just a side show to the essential issues of national security versus constitutional guarantees of privacy, which is disclosures, have surfaced in sharp relief. do you agree with that, dana? has the focus on snowden shed light on larger questions at least? >> i think the focus on snowden is a distraction from that very important debate. it's disappointing he's not saying he was doing his patriotic duty in releasing this and coming home to fight and say he was doing something good for his country. hard to say you're doing something for your country when you're hopping from china to russia to cuba. so i think it was a useful thing that he did in starting that debate here, and we should be

discussing that debate, rather than debating edward snowden. that's really the unfortunate thing. >> we'll bring you back in a few minutes. opening statements in the george zimmerman trial start tomorrow. what is and what's not allowed in court. we'll talk about that. plus, 15%, that's right, 15% of photographers' response to the bioracial cheerios commercial and the backlash that followed. his new efforts to highlight interracial american families. plus, this. >> why were hecklers booing nancy pelosi last night at a liberal event? what she said to infuriate that crowd. betes, it's tough to keep life balanced. i don't always have time to eat like i should. that's why i like glucerna shakes. they have slowly digestible carbs to help minimize blood sugar spikes. [ male announcer ] glucerna.

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will tomorrow be a history making day at the supreme court? anticipation builds as the high court is expected to rule on four landmark cases that could dramatically change the conversation about civil rights, and same-sex marriage in this country. tom goldstein is co-founder of a blog and joins me now live from d.c. let's go over the fours cases here, starting with california's ban on prop 8, approved by voters in 2008, found unconstitutional by a lower court. what's the most likely outcome in this particular case? >> we never really know, because you don't know until the decision comes down. but it seemed at the oral argument that the justices might be looking for a way out of the case, to avoid a sweeping ruling on same-sex marriage. they might decide there's a procedural flaw that stops the case from going forward. >> let's talk about defense of marriage act. signed into law in 1996. it prevents the federal

government from recognizing same-sex marriages where they are legal. how could the court rule in this particular case, and what would the impact be on same-sex couples around the country? >> the most likely outcome from the oral argument, and again, you don't know for sure, is it looked like this provision of the defense of marriage act would be deemed unconstitutional maybe by a narrow majority, that holds that if you have a state recognized same-sex marriage, then you have to get that -- then the federal government has to recognize it, too, for purposes of federal law. for example, the estate tax, or other kinds of benefits under federal law. the impact would be that that the question of same-sex marriage would return to the states in a sense. and it would be up to individual states to decide whether to recognize same-sex marriage, and if they did, then that would count under federal law, too. >> let's talk about voting rights act, the provision in the voting rights act up for challenge from 1965. it requires states with a history of discrimination to get approval from the federal

government before changing the way they conduct elections. shelby county, alabama, is challenging that. what could happen in this particular case? >> well, the most likely outcome is that the supreme court is going to strike down either the entire notion that you have to get prior approval if you're in one of these pre-clearance jurisdictions in order to change your voting system. they might strike that entire process down, or just invalidate the list and go back to congress and say, update the list with a more modern take on what jurisdiction states, counties and towns actually engage in racial discrimination when it comes to voting. the supreme court signaled by a very broad majority a few years ago that it had concerns with the law. congress unfortunately didn't do anything. >> let's talk about the challenge to the university of texas, austin's use of race of admissions for higher education. affirmative action in school admissions here. what's the most likely scenario? >> ten years ago, the supreme court said that you could use race as a factor in public

university admissions. here it looks like the supreme court is going to go the other way. its membership has gotten more conservative since then. the justices are likely to say that affirmative action is either limited or conceivably even unconstitutional in that context. >> what does that mean, the practical effects of that? >> it will really did epend if they take the supreme court at its word. a lot of advocates say it's increasing diversity in universities, it would be in big trouble. but it might be university officials do the same thing essentially under the table. >> tom goldstein, co-founder of scottus blog. thank you. always appreciate your insight, sir. >> thanks for having me. folks, remember the cheerios commercial that sparked an internet firestorm? there's a new chapter to the story. we are the 15%. the website that invites interracial families to share their photos, share their own

stories. it's the brain child of photographer michael david murphy and his wife, allison west, who say they wanted to in some way, shape or form elevate the conversation. murphy says they have already received hundreds of submissions. i want to make things more secure. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪

to the political playground we no. nancy pelosi was heckled, even booed saturday while speaking at net roots nation, an annual convention for liberal activists and bloggers. pelosi said edward snowden wrote the law. >> as far as snowden, he did violate the law in terms of releasing those documents. we don't know -- >> boo! >> ooh, the crowd turned there. the white house has released new behind-the-scenes photos for may. including must-see candid shots,

like president obama having fun with his kindergarten class, and also this one, prince harry attending a first lady's tea. and poignant moments as well. including president obama on air force one looking out at the tornado destruction in oklahoma. and then there's this moving moment as well, between president obama and thelma max dine, whose daughter was one of the four girls killed in the 1963 bombing of the 16th street baptist church in birmingham, alabama. [ male announcer ] moving object detection. ♪ blind spot warning. ♪ lane departure warning. safety, down to an art. the nissan altima with safety shield technologies. nissan. innovation that excites.

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with immigration you can only fear the future if you don't know our past. if you know how this country really was built on immigration, you'll understand that immigration is an added value. it is an invaluable energy infusion into this country. it always has been. if we close the door, this -- it

changes the definition of who we are. [ male announcer ] research suggests cell health plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. an air show resumed with a moment of silence for the pilot and stunt woman, just one day after they were killed in a fiery plane crash. a mother of two and her pilot, charlie schwenker were performing at an air show when their plane hit the ground and

exploded in flames. they're trying to determine precisely what caused that crash. here's a quick look at some of the other top stories. nearly a dozen wildfires are burning in colorado. including one that's gaining ground today. one of them has already scorched nearly 100 square miles, and the southwest part of the state. officials say they hope to contain -- they hope to fully contain at least one of the other wildfires by this evening, though. today, support seems to be growing for celebrity chef paula deen after she apologized for using racial slurs. customers lined up outside deen's restaurant in georgia and defended her actions. the outpouring of support continues online. where a "we support paula" facebook page has nearly quarter million likes. some fans also say they plan to boycott the food network for not renewing deen's contract. one of the boston marathon

giving his medal to the mayor. presented his medal, the first major running race there since the april marathon bombings. opening statements start tomorrow in the george zimmerman trial. in a highly anticipated ruling saturday, the judge decided not to allow the prosecution to present testimony from voice experts on the 911 call made the night trayvon martin was killed. zimmerman is charged with second-degree murder. he has pled not guilty. he claims he shot martin in self-defense. lisa bloom is msnbc's legal analyst. good to see you on a sunday afternoon. >> hello. >> opening statements set to start in just a few hours. what can we expect from the prosecution, what can we expect from the defense? >> i would expect the prosecution to say george zimmerman profiled trayvon martin and confronted him and

murdered him. he has to stick to his story because the tape is videotaped. he can't alter from that now. his story was he was concerned about crime in the area. that trayvon martin was behaving suspiciously. that he called a 911 -- or rather a nonemergency police number. and that he then went after trayvon martin, the sense of just going in the same direction. that there was an altercation, that trayvon martin attacked him, and that he shot him once in self-defense. that's zimmerman's story. >> yesterday the judge ruled the prosecution's audio experts will not be allowed to testify. the 911 call is probably still going to be heard by jurors obviously in this case. how big of a blow was that yesterday for the prosecution? >> i don't think it's as big a blow as some commentators said. that recording is still coming in. there may be lay witnesses like trayvon martin's mother, possibly his father as well saying that's the voice of my deceased teenager on that call. juries don't pay a huge amount of attention to expert

testimony. they listen to it. but when there's an expert on one side and an expert on the other side, a lot of times that cancels out. i read the judge's 12-page decision, she said the prosecution experts didn't follow scientific principles. >> after the judge's ruling, zimmerman's attorney, marco mara, previewed his strategy going forward with the 911 call specifically. here's what he said. >> they need to listen to the tape, compare it to all the other evidence, forensic and eyewitness evidence, and see what makes sense. we talked about them using their common sense. i think common sense is going to be, the eyewitness said george was screaming on the bottom. as soon as george got to the first officer, he said i was screaming for help and nobody came. when they take those two pieces of evidence and look at the tape, they will determine george was the one screaming. >> how will the prosecution likely counter that? >> the prosecution may put on

trayvon's own parents. his mother said from the beginning that's trayvon's voice screaming on that call. also, consider that the screaming stops once the gunshot goes off. so that might indicate that the person who was shot is the one that was screaming. i'm sure the defense, though, would say zimmerman had no reason to be screaming anymore once he shot the gun. >> the judge has decided that certain words, certain phrases will be allowed, other words will not be allowed. vigilante cop, confronted, profile, those are words that can be used in opening statements. they cannot use the word racial profiling. how significant is that decision for the prosecution? >> keep in mind this is just for opening statements. this could change for closing arguments when attorneys are allowed to be more argumentative. the judge is allowing the attorneys to make their case. but they're suppose to cue to the facts in the opening statement, just to tell the jury where you're going in the trial. this is what the evidence will

show. not to be too argumentative. >> the judge ruled the defense cannot mention trayvon martin's alleged drug use, suspension from school in the opening statements, but said they could bring that up during the trial, if it's relevant. could talking about martin's past, could talking about that help or hurt the defense's case? >> well, let's first start out with opening the door. because as you say, the judge said that's not coming in for now. at a trial, it's a very fluid, dynamic situation, things can change. if the prosecution tries to go down the road of talking a lot about trayvon martin and presenting his positive qualities, that would open the door for the defense to come in on the defense and show some of the negative sides as well. i think the prosecution is going to be very, very careful about that. ultimately this trial is about what happened in just those few moments of the altercation. whas it self-defense or not. the background of both of these two, probably less significant in the trial. >> what's this case going to

hinge on? >> i think it's going to hinge on zimmerman's story and whether it's credible. there were two people who were there, one is now deceased. we have zimmerman's story handwritten out on the date it happened. a lengthy videotape the next day. he's going to have to stick to that story. already there are inconsistencies. when they lie, there tend to be more inconsistencies. i think the prosecution is going to try to tear it apart piece by piece. i'm very interested in whether zimmerman himself is going to testify. >> that seems to be the million-dollar question. lisa bloom, going to be with us for the duration of the trial. >> yes. >> i'll head down in about two hours. i'll be there for the opening arguments tomorrow. and we'll provide loud reporting from the ground. lisa, thanks. george zimmerman has sued the parent of this company for defamation. moving on now, nik wallenda,

setting out to be the first person to walk across the grand canyon on a tight rope. a member of the famed flying wallendas will try to walk a third of a mile, 1,500 feet above the little colorado river. there's a look down. did we mention, that he won't be wearing a safety harness or using a net. ben foegel is in the grand canyon with more on this daring stunt. that, my friend, is one heck of a back drop, by the way. we should let folks know, you're not standing in front of a green screen, that's the view. obvious first question, why no harness? why no net? >> craig, it's a fantastic question. look at the view behind me. just imagine stepping out into that abyss, with no safety harness and no net. this is the wallenda way. it's family heritage, and history, that they do not use nets or safety harnesses. now, famously last year, when nik wallenda walked across

niagara falls, he did use a safety harness, and he said he felt restricted. he said it gave him an artificial confidence. that's why he wants to do this the pure way, the wallenda way. i think that's what gives it its unique atmosphere. people really are on tenderhooks here. it feels as though we're in an old-fashioned big top where there's genuine danger. you probably just saw it over there, where he'll actually be arriving. there's a hive of activity as they make those preparations. >> how long has he been preparing for this? >> well, i think you could say he's been preparing for this his whole life. he's done some extraordinary things already through his career. we must remember the wallendas have lost seven family members over the years. in fact, his great-grandfather died falling from the high wires. that's very much in his genes. and i would personally argue

that if he can complete this extraordinary walk, 1,400 feet, 1,500 feet above the floor of the canyon below, this will be the pinnacle of his career. where do you go after walking across the grand canyon without a safety harness or net. >> quickly before i let you get out of here. any conditions that would stop wallenda? >> well, you could probably see my hair blowing. there's some strong gusts of wind up here. though wallenda camp, everyone over there says that the only thing that will stop this is lightning within the vicinity. that is his biggest worry when he's got this enormous pole, obviously can conduct that lightning. that's the only thing. right now, the last thing we've heard, weather conditions are okay. even with this wind, he's going to have a go at it. >> ben fogel, a big thanks to you. watch nik wallenda's daring stunt tonight at 8:00 eastern on the discovery channel. we should note for the feint of

heart, we're going to show that on a ten-second delay. president obama's plan to challenge climate change. what we're expecting to hear tuesday and why local officials admit this cannot be ignored. this is msnbc. ♪ roundup

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david mill bank political columnist for the washington post, bob franken columnist for king features and joe watkins republican strategist former aid to former george h.w. boush and looking for a column of his own. president obama will lay out his climate age plan in an address at georgetown university. president obama gave a preview of sorts in a release this weekend. >> we need all of our citizens to do our part to preserve god's creation for future.

our crop lands and snow-capped peaks. >> this plan we are told will be cutting ksh yn emissions, devising new sources of energy and addressing the impact of climate change that many communities in this country already experience. joe, we're also told that president could be proposing new regulations on greenhouse gas emissiones from existing power plants. what kind of opposition might he expect on that? >> i think republicans will wait to see exactly what he is proposing. general specking republicans are not real excited about more regulation. we like to see generally less regulation but when it comes to the issue of climate change and greenhouse gasses, we will want to see what the president has to say before we pass judgment. >> it is not clear if the president will address the controversial keystone pipeline, huffington pose reporting thursday. almost 150 former staffers from

president barack obama's 2012 reelection campaign called on the president to reject a construction permit for the keystone xl pipeline urging him, not to quote, disappoint the people who help keep him in office. how worried, at this point, are democratic party officials that the white house is going to approve some form of the keystone pipeline? >> i can tell that you people in the environmental communities, some leaders with whom i have spoken, are very worried about that. of course that's going to be just supposed with the uproar that will come with the climate change proposal. when you talk about the existing power plants, there's a consensus that it will mean higher electricity rates for just about everybody and i think that there's going to be political fall out that's going to be felt in the next election. >> dana, let's take it to immigration here quickly. looks like the senate is going to pass an immigration reform bill with gop support. a part of this bill, though, is so-called border surge that's been dubbed, as it's been dubbed, called for dubbing the number of border control agents to 40,000.

i want to show numbers here. the numbers show that even though the number of agents has more than doubled in the last ten years, number of apprehensions in that time has declined significantly. ten years ago a southwest border agent on average, apprehended 100 crossers. last year that number was 19. why call for more agents when those on the patrol aren't even rounding up a fraction of the illegal immigrants that they were just a decade ago? >> arguably more agents means fewer people are attempting to cross because of the deterrent. what this has to do with in the senate bill is nothing to do with what is on the ground there and all about getting more republican senators on board. the target is 70 or some such so that this bill has a chance of passage when it gets to the house where john boehner has made quite clear that he doesn't want to take this up and if he does take it up, there will be a conservative rebellion there. so they've got -- probably enough border agents on the border where they apprehend each other.

it is really not about -- it is not about what is happening on the ground. >> let's look ahead to what is shaping up to be a very busy day. we will see where edward snowden finally turns up. what do you think the snowden headlines will be. joe, let me start with you. >> i'm a fan of the today show. there used to be a thing called "where in the world is matt lauer." i think it'll be, "where in the world is edward snowden." maybe cuba, ecuador, venezuela. we will all be watching. >> joe? >> snowden baffles security agency by changing his e-mail and getting an unlisted number. >> one of the things i did find interesting last week, i think last week, maybe the week before, days run together. he is conducting this on-line chat. and we couldn't find him or track him down when he was conducting on-line chat, dana milbank? >> i don't know how this nsa

works. but apparently that's not a high priority for them. there is not a whole lot divulged in internet chat rooms. >> what is your headline? >> i'm going to make a bold prediction. i think snowden shows up in iceland wearing a viking helmet and saying his name is gunnar. >> the weather is better in ecuador, i think. >> at the end of the day, bob, is it safe to assume at this particular point that is how this will play out at this particular juncture? >> it looks like it. as matter of fact, i think we could have some sort of betting arrangement where we can have a pool, you know, where is he going to land. i think maybe there's an opportunity here. >> i will take ecuador plus seven points. >> no betting for me. >> sec would be pleased with two of you at least. betting on the air -- >> quickly, 30 seconds. high court this week, we are expecting blockbuster decisions.

of course waiting to the very last minute. dana, what do you think the highlight will be out of the high court? >> i think jokingly i say they haven't decided anything and will decide on a coin toss. there is nothing to keep them from exceed uscheduling future because they have a lot to go through still. >> bob? >> vacation. my headline is pessimism. the building entrance reads equal justice under the law. >> and joe, we end with you. supreme court. >> i think it is going to be forward and backward. i think with the issues of affirmative action and voting rights, i hope they follow the urban league and naacp and realize what needs to be done. we can't go backwards when it comes to civil rights, but i'm afraid that's probably not the way the court votes. >> big thanks to the brain trust

and big thanks to you as well for watching us on sunday afternoon. i'll be back next weekend. 2:00 eastern. up next on the other this break, disrupt with karen finney. she is standing by. she is rearing to go. well see you in just a few minutes. you hurt my feelings, todd.

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part of our goal to inspire more than three million people to rediscover the joy of being active this summer. see the difference all of us can make... together. thanks for disrupting your afternoon. i'm karen finney. edward snowden is on the move from russia with love. >> we've got breaking news, nsa leaker edward snowden is on the move. >> apparently on his way it venezuela seeking asylum. >> they decided to let him go. >> a game of cat and mouse and the u.s. government lost this round. >> that he stay out of the clutches of the u.s. government. >> he is a felon. >> how can he be charged with espionage. >> he is complaining about the united states and all these things that united states is