let's get first things out of the play. the bald headed dude for purposes of the record, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> i've got one of those last names that most people can't pronounce and so anyway, i'm curious, you grew up, i guess, in a haitian family? >> yes, sir. >> your mother speaks creole or haitian? >> creole, yes, sir. >> okay. and the reason is i ask in terms of from a cultural or just from learning english, english was not my native tongue. i spoke spanish first. in doing that, did you learn creole first or did you learn english first in terms of -- i'm curious sometimes there's a cultural thing, we say things, it isn't as clear to everybody. >> creole and spanish. >> okay.

you also mentioned that you were shown a letter, correct? i believe it's defense exhibit -- madam clerk, do you have that? oh, i'm sorry. may i approach the witness, your honor? >> yes, you may. >> defense exhibit 17. do you recognize this here? >> yes, sir. >> stand up. >> is defendant's exhibit 17, which is the letter that you wrote to -- actually, you didn't write, you had somebody else write on behalf of you to sabrina fulton, the victim's mother? yes, sir.

>> it's confusing because there's two microphones here. you need to speak into that one. do you recognize the letter? >> yes, sir. >> okay. now you had a friend of yours write it, correct? >> yes, sir. >> because you can't write in cursive, correct? >> yes, sir. >> and you also can't read in cursive, correct? >> yes, sir. >> objection. leading. this is redirect. >> i'll try and rephrase it. >> can you read in cursive? can you read cursive? >> no, sir. >> can you write in cursive? >> no, sir. >> you were asked about the friend that wrote that letter, correct? >> yes, sir. >> that's a friend that you asked to write it? >> yes, sir. >> okay.

you were also asked about -- numerous questions about the interview that you gave me, the statement you gave me when i went down to -- me with an investigator too down in miami, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> and mr. west asked you about the fact that the state's attorney's office had been appointed by the governor, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> in terms of you found out we were handling the case? >> yes, sir. >> okay. and you agreed to speak to me, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> okay. and, in fact, as you stated, two cars went to a place where you were at, a friend's house, and picked you up and took you down to take a statement, correct?

>> yes, sir. >> okay. you were pretty emotional at that statement, weren't you? >> yes, sir. >> was it hard for you to talk about this? >> yes, sir. >> okay. and in that statement you as best you could attempted to tell what you remember? >> i'm objecting now. this is the third in a series of leading questions. this is redirect. they should be direct questions rather than leading. >> i'll be glad to rephrase it, your honor. >> thank you. sustained. >> you recall in that statement stating that -- i'm sorry, the april 2nd statement that mr. west asked you about that trayvon martin was running away from the person? >> yes, sir. >> and you also made reference that trayvon martin said the man -- described him as a creepy white -- >> object.

object. that is at this point beyond the scope of the cross examination and not responsive to one of the issues raised during the cross and it's also leading. >> overruled to the first two objections. as to the leading, i will give a little leeway to get a frame of reference and then make sure your questions aren't leading. >> yes, your honor. my question is, do you recall mr. west asking you that trayvon martin referred to the man that was following him as a creepy white crapper? >> yes. >> objection. >> i didn't say that. that's a mischaracterization of the testimony. >> sustained because i think the words were creepy ass cracker. >> were the words -- pardon me language, were the words creepy ass cracker? >> yes, sir. >> do you recall mr. west asking

you about that. >> yes, sir. >> and also -- and to you is that a derogatory -- is that the way people speak in your culture, your age group? >> objection. leading. suggesting an answer. >> overruled. >> yes, sir. >> you also made reference at some point that mr. trayvon martin also referred to the person also with the "n" word, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> and when i say person, you're talking about the person he was following him, he referred to him using the "n" word? >> yes, sir. >> by the way, in that letter -- may i approach? >> yes. >> that letter, defense exhibit 17, you actually read it, trayvon martin's name is misspelled. were you aware of that?

>> no, sir. >> it's spelled t-r-e-r -- >> i object. it's leading. >> overruled. >> it's spelled t-r-e-v-o-n. were you aware of that? >> no, sir. >> you mentioned also when asked by mr. west about the statement that you gave to mr. crumb by phone, correct -- it was done by phone, just for the record. you weren't there in person, were you, or were you? >> by phone. >> okay. and mr. crumb did not ask you specific questions about certain items or certain questions that i asked you specifically on april 2nd, is that correct? >> yes, sir. >> objection. leading. >> overruled.

>> did mr. -- did mr. crumb ask you specific questions like i did? >> no, sir. >> you were asked by mr. west in terms of what happened and you recall in the interview that you gave me on april the 2nd, a statement you gave, you referred to the man approaching trayvon martin sounded like a bump. do you recall using the word bump? >> yes, sir. >> objection. i guess i don't quite understand what's going on here. is -- is -- is this confronting the witness with her prior statement that he was present for? >> what is your objection? >> it's leading and it is improper impeachment. if anything, it's bolstering by a supposed prior consistent statement. >> overruled on all three. >> do you recall using the word bump in describing what occurred

to trayvon martin? >> yes, sir. >> for the record, do you still live -- mr. west asked you about meeting with two individuals in miami. do you still live in miami? >> yes, sir. >> you were asked by mr. west about the phone calls that you had with mr. trayvon martin that day, on february 26th. would you agree that the phone records are the best records about that in terms of the length of the calls, whatever the times are? >> yes, sir.

>> if i may have a moment, your honor. >> yes, you may. lisa, we're now in the redirect here. they're taking a moment. let's focus in on the last 8:00 or so. what's the objective of the state? >> the defense made some in roads telling about how her interview changed with the interview, at her deposition and at the trial. what the prosecutors are doing saying she was asked different questions at different times by different individuals. >> thank you, lisa. >> what you're talking about, sir. >> that's what i'm asking you. are you saying that english is your third language? that you spoke creole and

spanish first? >> i spoke three languages in my house. >> does your mother speak english? >> not that well, sir. >> does she speak english. >> not that well, sir. >> i understand she may have an accent or some limitations, but do you speak to her in english? >> sometimes, sir. >> and if you're not speaking to her in english, you're speaking to her in creole? >> yes, sir. >> and your father, do you speak to him in english? >> yes, sir. >> and when you went to school as a child, kindergarten, did you speak english at school? >> yes, sir. >> and have you spoken english to your teachers and classmates in school up through today? >> yes, sir. >> are you claiming in any way that you don't understand

english? >> i understand you. i understand you. i do understand english. >> my question is, when someone speaks to you in english do you believe that you have any difficulty understanding it because it wasn't your first language? >> i understand english really well. >> you've spoken it all your life. >> yes, sir. >> and there's nothing that i've said to you today in english that -- or yesterday that you haven't understood, correct? >> no, sir. >> the other thing i wanted to ask you about is mr. delarianda said in reference to trayvon martin saying creepy ass cracker and using the "n" word, that people like -- people speak like that in your culture. did you hear that?

>> yes, sir. >> well, what culture is that, where people describe other people as creepy ass crackers? >> pervert. >> i'm sorry? >> a pervert. >> do you understand what i mean by the culture? the culture that you were raised in? the culture that you live in. >> the area i was raised in you trying to say? >> right. i'll say it this way. do people that you live around and with call white people creepy ass crackers? >> not creepy but crack, yeah. >> so the creepy is the pervert part that you were talking about? >> yeah. >> so forget that for a second. you're saying that in the culture that you live in, in your community people call -- people there call white people

crackers? >> yes, sir. >> and do they use the "n" word regularly? >> yes, sir. >> and you're saying so did trayvon martin? trayvon martin referred to white people as crackers, correct? >> i don't recall, sir. >> okay. thank you. nothing else. >> any redirect? >> no, your honor. >> may ms. jenteal be excused? >> yes, sir. >> thank you. you may be excused. >> we're going to ask that she remain under subpoena. >> we're going to have to -- >> okay. as we wait to see the next witness, lisa bloom, let me bring you in here. this has been an incredible two days of testimony from this

young lady. first, let's pick up at the end here, what's happened regarding the language. and you see there the defense attorney at least asking the question was the language that was used in the conversation, referring to whites and a slur, a part of trayvon martin's regular language or use of words. >> that's right. and she ended up thinking about that for a while, ultimately saying no. of course, previously her testimony she put those words into the mouth of trayvon martin. she said that he referred to george zimmerman as a creepy ass cracker and that was kind of an explosive moment in the trial yesterday. just now the prosecutor tried to soften that testimony by getting her to say, well, that's just the way people in my community talk. >> and the defense attempted to harden it by implying or saying that trayvon martin used the -- reminds me of the paula deen thing, did you use it once, did you use it regularly?

is it a one off situation or is it a frequent phrase? is this his disposition or demeanor towards white people. >> yes, tamron, consider how dpleks is because she says trayvon martin, african-american man, used the "n" word as george zimmerman, a man who identifies as hispanic, in talking to her, an african-american woman. a lot of complexities here. >> that's not that complex. bottom line is for some people it is a word that is used as a general insult whatever the race is. if you listen to, you know, some hip-hop language, for example -- >> right. >> -- it's an indiscriminate use of a word that is not defined by the color of a person's skin, it is just a general insult directed at a person. >> insult or just a slang word, like, dude. >> in this case we don't mean it as dude. >> but probably not a racial slur -- >> right. >> -- when used by trayvon martin in regards to george zimmerman. would be a racial slur in the

mouth of paula deen in reference to african-americans. >> let me bring in john burns here. john, if we are correct here, the first reference or true reference of race came today in the questioning. let me play a back and forth between don west and rachel jenteal. >> your testimony today is what you heard on the phone the man say that george zimmerman was -- what are you doing around here? >> yes. >> and then the first statement that you may to mr. crump in his interview of you, you said mr. zimmerman's response was, what are you talking about? >> yes. >> it was in the interview with mr. crump that you said you thought this was a racial thing? >> he had asked if it was a racial thing. >> what did he say?

>> the situation was a racial thing. >> so, john, what's your assessment of this back and forth here on the issue of race? >> you know, actually, i think that the defendant wants to interject the issues of race in this case even though there's this whole argument beginning. i think he's the one that brought it up. he brought it up in the questioning, in terms of racially explosive. i think it's designed to turn the jury off towards trayvon and towards the family itself by suggesting that they're the ones that caused this whole racial issue to be injected in this case and to use it in a most negative way. for me looking at how he's examined this young woman who is obviously not very sophisticated, he's obviously taken advantage of his skills and using that approach. race, in my view, was interjected by him deliberately. >> you know, it's interesting when he asks do you think it's a racial thing. i talked with lisa as well, the koechk of a witness not to tell

them what to say but certainly to prepare them. it struck me as why she wouldn't know to say, well, this is a black boy in south florida with a white guy following him. if you know stop and frisk, if you know anything in recent culture, both races, white and black, one might interpret that as he's following me because i'm black, i've got a hoodie on or baggy pants. this doesn't seem so revolutionary. >> i don't think she's so sophisticated to understand the cultural things here. i really don't. i can see her she has these issues that she's struggling with, but she's not sophisticated around the race questions or social logical questions that we see as ordinary life. >> i have a little bit different perspective on that. i think she did try to get to that. she was asked why she thought this was a racial issue, why she thought trayvon martin was targeted because of his race. she said, well, it was the whole situation.

you know, this very broad term. when she was asked to elaborate on that, she said, well, he was following trayvon martin. trayvon wasn't doing anything. he was just walking around. i think in a somewhat simplified way she's saying the same thing john burress is. >> let me ask you both. this whole issue of her first language, what she spoke first, creole, spanish, english. that was originally brought up by the state with bernie delarianda and followed up by the defense. what's the significance of that? >> because so much of her testimony has to do with language and she's changed now. she does seem to struggle with some of the language she uses. the prosecution wanted her to say english wasn't her native language. creole and spanish were spoken in her home. that was put to rest. >> the jury has been asked to leave so they can take care of, quote, unquote, housekeeping

issues. let me play another -- and i bring this up because this is the kind of thing that is trending online. i'll tell you why i'm even bringing up what people say online about this case. the demeanor of the young lady here. let me play at least this back and forth when she was asked by the defense about her changed demeanor today. >> when you talked to ms. holt ton, did she say would you please come forward and talk to our attorney and record it because we think this is a racially charged event? >> no. >> and you didn't have any information from the news that this was a racially charged event? >> no. i told you i don't watch the news. >> okay. are you okay this morning? >> yeah. >> you seem sort of different than yesterday. just checking. did someone talk to you -- >> is that a question? >> yes. did someone talk with you last night about your demeanor in court yesterday? >> no. i went to sleep.

so, lisa, he's questioning you about her demeanor and you have people question him about his demeanor as overreaching and condescending. >> right. her demeanor did change. i'm pointing it out. >> as did his. he became more aggressive today. >> in the scheme of cross-examinations of key witnesses in murder trials, i would call his cross examination pretty polite and tame. i've seen attorneys yelling, screaming, really going on the attack. i think he knew he had to be relatively soft with her. he was only really aggressive a couple of times in many, many hours of cross examination. i think a lot of people watching this case are probably not used to seeing cross-examinations in murder trials. out of that context, if people were just in a room talking to each other, sure, it would be rude of him to bring up embarrassing prior things that this woman had done over and over again, but that's his job. >> we know this is also playing to the jury, which you pointed out. six women. five of which are mothers. at the core of this we should be focused on when her story changed, what her original story

was, what she said the day -- happened the day she was on the phone with trayvon martin, but that choice of the defense attorney to ask her how are you doing, are you okay this morning, you seem different i believe like so many other people they went online last night, read a lot of the twitter traffic and seeing how divisive this witness had become and honed in on that demeanor. >> again, i think he's doing his job, for the most part doing it well. i think the cross examination went on far too well. my criticism of him is he repeated the same points over and over. he could have gotten her statement, brought up the prior inconsistent statements and move on and stream lined this significantly. >> it seems that i wa. john, what's your take? >> it seems that way. i thought it was condescending. i thought it was playing to the jury making the jurors not kind of like her or respect her in terms of her lack of

sophistication and he played into that. and ultimately what he did, with the repeat questions, get an answer. i know that's fundamentally wrong. the objections only happened a couple of times. it should have happened more. that's a way of getting the witness out, getting the answer, repeating it, repeating it. no person can answer the question the same time over and over again. fundamentally he did his job, he did his job well. i think he was condescending. >> she may be called back, rachel gjenteal. i don't want to quantify whether she was good or bad. your gut reaction, lisa, if she has been a good witness for the state. what is your take at this point from what we saw? >> i think she stuck to her core story that trayvon martin told her that he was being followed a couple of times, that he was concerned about it. that the phone dropped. he said get off. get off. i think the defense made good

points about significant changes in her story including things trayvon martin cold her she claims. i'm going to leave it to the jury. i think she's a small piece of the puzzle. >> john, last take? >> my view is her core story is what's really important. that wasn't really shaken. the issue is was zimmerman chasing, stalking, etc. she never really changed in that particular story. of course she was contradicted on some of the issues around her personal statements she was given. her core story is there. the time record that you might have on the telephone. to the extent you can corroborate some of those things, a jury will be in a position to look at and evaluate. of course they can ignore things because there was some inconsistencies, but fundamentally they have what they need in order to evaluate the testimony in the grand scheme of things. >> john, lisa, thank you both. >> i understand what we've seen up to this point.

there's much more as to what lisa pointed out. breaking news, murder suspect and former new england patriots aaron hernandez back in court within this hour. he is appealing a judge's ruling that he be held without bail. we'll have more on hernandez and a new vent in this story, is he being investigated in connection with another murder? a lot going on in this case, and you can join our conversation on twitter. you can find us @tamronhall or my team at newsnation. i think farmers care more about the land than probably anyone else. we've had this farm for 30 years. we raise black and red angus cattle. we also produce natural gas. that's how we make our living and that's how we can pass the land and water back to future generations.

people should make up their own mind what's best for them. all i can say is it has worked well for us.

i'm going to dream about that steak. i'm going to dream about that tiramisu. what a night, huh? but, um, can the test drive be over now? head back to the dealership? oh, yeah. [ male announcer ] it's practically yours. [ wife ] sorry. [ male announcer ] but we still need your signature. volkswagen sign then drive is back. and it's never been easier to get a passat. that's the power of german engineering. get $0 down, $0 due at signing, $0 deposit, and $0 first month's payment on any new volkswagen. visit vwdealer.com today. "news nation" is following breaking news story out of massachusetts where nfl star aaron hernandez is back in court. his attorney is appealing a judge's ruling that he be held without bail arguing the nfl star is not a flight risk, this as another man, carlos ortiz, has been arrested in connection with the case in bristol, connecticut, hernandez's hometown. it is unclear what the tie is to

hernandez and ortiz. yesterday hernandez pleaded not guilty to first degree murder and five weapons charges in connection with the death of 27-year-old oden lloyd. now we're being told that hernandez is being investigated in connection with another murder. stephanie gosk is outside in falls river. let's talk about this other investigation from 2012. then we'll talk about what's happening in court today, stephanie. >> sure, tamron. law enforcement officials tell nbc news that aaron hernandez is being investigated for this double murder that took place last summer in july in south boston. now there have been no charges in that case and the boston police department won't comment on it publicly, but this is on top of being charged officially with first degree murder in the murder of oden lloyd. there was detailed testimony during the hearing yesterday from pros cuesors where they outlined what they believe

happened to oden lloyd. it included a fight at a club with aaron hernandez one night and then two nights later he called in, according to them, two of his friends, to orchestrate what the prosecutors are calling an execution. they picked up oden lloyd at his house at 2:30 in the morning and then they brought him to a neighborhood, industrial park very close to where hernandez lives and then they shot and killed him. he is here today for a bail hearing. on wednesday the judge denied bail. his lawyers say that this case is weak, that he should be granted bail. he's never committed a crime. he's a homeowner and that he lives at home with his fiance and young baby. tamron? >> and right now at least his attorneys are arguing that this is a circumstantial case, that the evidence is circumstantial against his client. >> they are saying it's a circumstantial case and that very well may be true but keep in mind, this investigation is ongoing. one of the things that the prosecutors talked about on

wednesday was the fact that there were two other men involved. we don't have officially the names of those men. it remains to be seen what they are going to say. they are potential witnesses and that could be part of the body of evidence held against hernandez at a later date. >> thank you very much, stephanie. i want to draw your attention. these are live pictures from the courtroom. stephanie is out in front. this is what's happening inside. thank you, stephanie. let me bring in now as we take a look at what's happening here, we might be able to zip in, my team will let me know. meanwhile, let me go to investigative crime report jeremy shell segona joining me in washington. the attorneys representing hernandez would like to see him out, said he's a homeowner and cited other issues were he would not be a flight risk. now there's a second investigation, double murder, that police are looking into. >> exactly. there are definitely reports out there on this second investigation. i have reached out to all the local agencies and here's what i can tell you as of right now.

everything is being referred to the bristol district attorney's office, but the boston police department, local affiliates did this as well, they have a police blog and it says on july 16th, 2012, that three people were shot, two people fatally at a stop light. it involved an suv with rhode island tags. there is another report out there that says possibly, allegedly that particular suv that was involved in this triple shooting may have possibly been rented by hernandez. again, working to verify that information, but this could possibly be a link. so it's possible that the victim in the most recent homicide may have had knowledge about that. what we do know as a motive is that the friday before the shooting there was obviously something that happened in the nightclub. hernandez was allegedly not happy with and that's why the shooting may have happened. >> that's the thing that so many people are wondering. here's a guy that just signed a $40 million contract, not that money keeps you from committing a crime, but you have a situation where the motive

hinges or surrounds some kind of dispute or something that prosecutors say made aaron hernandez upset, so much so that he literally executed this guy with a semi-automatic weapon. >> and i have to tell you, tamron, the arraignment yesterday, 40 minutes long and the evidence stacking up that the district attorney brought to the table. i mean, i have a list here. i mean, the time line is laid out. not just with surveillance from everyday businesses but also more than 14 surveillance cameras that hernandez had installed in his help to lock in that time, including the car rental, including that the victim in this case had a key in his front pocket from what the district attorney says that matched that car rental that hernandez and the other two people that were with him turned in the next day. also, the tire tracks, they went to talk about the tire tracks that were at the crime scene match the vehicle that was a front wheel drive altima, the s

inside the wheels, there was talk of the bubblicious cotton candy gum. a piece of chewed gum was found underneath the seat along with a casing. those items were dumped off in a dumpster. the person at the car rental place told investigators, yes, i found these items, they're in the dumpster. they took the entire dumpster apart and found those items and seized them. while investigating this thing, prosecutors say at this point we don't have the murder weapon in this case, they found another gun and another gun that was linked back to a florida store that could have possibly been, you know, purchased by hernandez, we don't know for sure. >> they're working on that. >> exactly. this is what came out yesterday in the arraignment obviously along with a very detailed crime

line. >> michelle, i know you're always on top of these things. thank you for the information. here's a live look at the senate ahead of a historic vote on comprehensive immigration reform. this vote expected to happen two hours. big day politically. we'll get the latest in first read. ready? happy birthday! it's a painting easel! the tide's coming in! this is my favorite one. it's upside down. oh, sorry. (woman vo) it takes him places he's always wanted to go. that's why we bought a subaru. (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today?

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[ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin dedicated to your eyes, from bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite is uniquely formulated to help protect your eye health. now that's a pill worth taking. [ male announcer ] ocuvite. help protect your eye health. and now there's ocuvite eye + multi. an eye vitamin and multivitamin in one. welcome back. in less than two hours the senate is expected to vote on its final version of historic immigration reform. it follows the latest of a series of test votes that shows strong bipartisan support. it is debating a measure that provides a path for citizenship for the nation's 11 million undocumented immigrants. senator lindsey graham is on the floor and it also provides an additional $46 billion in

security over the next decade to be spent on hiring some 20,000 more border agents and finishing 700 miles of fence along the southern border. the amount increased yesterday to win more republican support. >> landmark legislation that will secure borders and help 11 million people get right with the law. >> so this bill may pass the senate today but not with my vote and in its current form it won't become law. >> it's fatally flawed. if passed, it will not work and that's why we shouldn't pass it. >> any bill that passes the senate will have an unsecure time in the house. here's john boehner. >> the house is not going to take up and vote on whatever the senate passes. we're going to do our own bill through regular order and it will be legislation that reflects the wilf our majority and the will of the american

people. immigration reform has to be grounded in real border security. >> joining me now live, nbc news senior reporter, mark murray. it seems that we're on our way to see this pass the senate. i don't want to take that for granted but i want be to pivot forward to mitch mcconnell's remarks and others who don't support the bill because that will give to some republicans in the house who feel any amendments or changes made are still not satisfactory. >> that's right. that's what it really comes down to. tamron, i think you are right. it looks like it is going to pass the senate. it will be in the ballpark range with 68 or 69 votes give or take one or two votes here or there. that means with about 14 or 15 republican senators in support and the question becomes what does the house of representatives do in the language. the words, the body language, everything from republicans over the past two weeks has been we are going to try to pass our own bill. we don't know how long it's

going to take us. we are not going to take up the senate legislation. we are going to do our own thing and we'll let the system work out its will. on "morning joe" this morning, chuck schumer, democratic senator from new york who's a key member of this said what they'll try to do is put pressure in marches, activities to be able to force the house of representative's hands and the question is whether that will work. >> that is the question. i'm curious with these changes that were added in to the immigration reform, plan, listen, border security, that's 20,000 more border agents. incredible amount of money added to $46 billion at a time when you have fiscal conservatives saying we need to be mindful of our debt and deficit and all these issues. what more can be done to bring in some of the republicans who stand opposed to the legislation if anything? >> i'm not sure that more can be done when you're just talking about just border security and enforcement as you mentioned.

even republican supporters of the bill said this is overkill. they're adding so many border patrol agents and fencing. opponents had two big criticisms, the pathway to citizenship for undocumented immigrants and secondly they believe there should be a trigger before this pathway exists. all of these border metrics should be met. it should be 100% impossible to cross. then you have the pathway to the citizenship. they don't like that because that leaves that pathway hanging in the air to be ripped apart perhaps in the future. >> all right. thank you. mark, appreciate you joining us. >> thanks. up next, the hot story this hour, rachel jenteal, the state's witness has been sent home but she could be called back to testify. right now a technical witness from t-mobile is on the stand. coming up, lisa bloom, our legal analyst will join me to talk about what's happening there.

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could've had a v8. in the juice aisle. welcome back. we want to update you again what is happening in the courtroom as jurors continue to hear testimony in the george zimmerman trial. lawyers have wrapped up questioning of the big witness, rachel jeantel. the judge has allowed her to leave for the day. she does remain under subpoena and may be called back to testify. lisa bloom joins me now. right now we're hearing from a technician from t-mobile. >> that's. his name is raymond macdonald. senior management. i assume this is probably a regular part of his job. he has to go into trial when phone records are at issue. here are our phone records, they're legitimate. >> here he is now. >> in this case these are the phone records that are so important between trayvon martin and rachel jeantel.

they were on the phone all day either talking or texting according to her testimony. >> that was pretty brief given how long we saw rachel jeantel. i want to play an excerpt from the back and forth, more heated exchange between rachel jeantel and the defense attorney. let's play it. >> trayvon got hit. >> you don't know that, do you? >> no. >> you don't know that trayvon got hit. >> he claims he had. >> you don't know that trayvon at that moment didn't take his fist and drive it into george zimmerman's face. >> lower your voice. >> do you? >> no, sir. >> you thought trayvon martin would approach a man he'd never seen in his life -- >> i did not say trayvon punched a man, sir. >> i thought, in fact, that you said that it could have been, for all you know, trayvon martin smashing george zimmerman in the face is what you actually heard? >> what? >> yeah, just earlier today. >> by who? >> by you.

>> you didn't get that from me. >> lisa, i've been watching this all day like you. you've been glued to it. i was so confused. at this point he's trying to challenge so much of what she's said i've lost track of what she's said. what's the truth here? >> well, she can't say exactly of course what happened because she wasn't there. >> right. >> she can only testify what she heard. sometimes she would cross over a little bit and probably fill in the blanks. as she said, that's the part where trayvon martin got hit and the defense attorney was pointing out, you don't know that for sure. you can't say that, you weren't there, and she had to backtrack and ultimately say, that's true. >> at one point he said what does wet grass sound like? when she said she could hear this in the background. why was this such a vocal point for the defense there? >> because according to the prosecution, this is when the fight began. this is when zimmerman assaulted trayvon martin initially and they went down on the ground. her testimony substantiates that. she said she could hear in the

call something hitting wet grass, the phone. >> what does that sound like? >> he seems like that's so extraordinary. i think we know what a tussle sounds like. we've all walked and you hear especially something is wet, the squishy sound of it. that's an extraordinary detail. >> it's not so much that he thinks it's extraordinary. he's entitled to probe, push, that she really understood that, that she's not just speculating and filling in the blanks and this is what human beings do but when you're in court you have to be very, very precise. >> lisa, thank you very much. bring you up to date on another breaking news story that we are following, this regarding the boston marathon booming case. the boston grand jury has formally charged dzhokhar tsarnaev. officials say many of those charges could bring life in prison or even the death penalty. the twin blast at the marathon finish line killed three people, injured hundreds others.

tsarnaev's older brother, tamerlan tsarnaev, was killed after the bombing by the police. a judge has just denied aaron hernandez' second request for bail. the judge said it appeared very circumstantial but very, very strong. hernandez was arraigned on first degree murder along with weapons charges. he pleaded not guilty. officials have also told nbc news that there is a second investigation, a double homicide that happened in 2012. they are investigating if hernandez is linked to that at all. also, large crowds have gathered outside the hospital where former south african president nelson mandela is being treated. some people singing and praying for his health. his family also stopping outside the hospital to thank the public for their support. chenoa's looking for an alternative to eating lunch out...

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now to the health of former

south african president nelson mandela. president obama expressed his thoughts and concerns while visiting senegal today. he'll visit south africa but it is unclear whether he'll see nelson mandela. >> he's a personal hero but i don't think i'm unique in that regard. i think he's a hero for the world, and if and when he passes from this place, one thing i think we'll all know is that his legacy is one that will linger on throughout the ages. >> meanwhile, mr. mandela is in critical but stable condition. earlier nearly 1,000 people gathered outside the hospital. nbc's kier simmons is outside pretoria, south africa. >> reporter: good afternoon, tamron. you may be able to see some of the crowds in the streets behind me singing and dancing, singing nelson mandela. small, actually, in comparison

with some of the crowds that were here earlier. perhaps 1,000 singing and dancing up and down the street. today was a positive day. the first we knew of it was when some of nelson mandela's family came out of the hospital to go into the crowds to look at some of the messages that have been left and to take some of the flowers inside. when journalists spoke to them they said nelson mandela was stable. we heard from one of his daughters and she said although it doesn't look good, but if we speak to him he responds and tries to open his eyes. he's still there. he may be waning, but he's still there so that was positive. and then nbc news special correspondent charlene hunter goer spoke with another of nelson mandela's daughters and she said her dad is a fighter and even talked about the possibility that president obama might come to see him seems open to that possibility but says it would be up to the doctors to decide. meanwhile, the president of

south africa, jacob zuma, has been at the hospital. he describes the condition as critical but said he saw him last night and he saw him today and he looks much better today. back to you. >> kier, thank you very much. that does it for this edition of "news nation." i'm tamron hall. we will see you tomorrow. "the cycle" is up next.

we start the hour with breaking news. the next step in the prosecution of the surviving boston bomber, dzhokhar tsarnaev, a federal grand jury has just returned an indictment with 30 counts against him. 17 of those counts could bring life in prison or the death penalty. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams has the details. pete, what are the new details in this indictment? >> well, we get some new details about what the prosecutors say dzhokhar tsarnaev was wroting in that boat in the backyard in