in the zimmerman trial, the focus shifts to the fight that ended trayvon martin's life. it's friday, june 28th, and this is "now." i'm joy reid in for alex wagner. we're following the fifth day of testimony in the george zimmerman trial. zimmerman is facing charges of second degree murder in the shooting of trayvon martin and has pleaded not guilty claiming self-defense. this morning, john goode who lived in the gated community where the shooting took place testified that he saw part of the struggle between martin and zimmerman. the defense used this witness to establish two points. one, that he identified martin as the person on top of

zimmerman during the altercation. >> the person who you now know to be trayvon martin was on top. correct? >> correct. >> he was the one who was raining blows down on the person on the bottom, george zimmerman. right? >> that's what it looked like. >> and two, the person believed the person on the bottom was screaming for help. >> do you think that it was the person on bottom who was screaming for help? >> i mean rationally thinking, i would think so. >> i think you said in response to mr. de la rhonda's question, his his back was to you the yell would be going away from you and i think said it would have to bounce off the wall -- >> i would think it would sound different. that's why in my head i thought it was coming from the person on the bottom. >> the prosecution's questioning of john good sought to refute a key detail of the fight that had been highlighted by the defense, that martin smashed zimmerman's head into the concrete sidewalk.

>> did you ever see the person on top slamming the person on the bottom's head on the concrete over and over and over? >> no. >> did you see at any time the person on top grab the person on the bottom's head and slam it into the concrete? >> no. >> joining us now, msnbc legal analyst lisa bloom, and msnbc.com national reporter tramaine lee. both of you guys, john good seems like he was sort of good for both sides, in a way. lisa, on one hand, he establishes what the defense wants to argue, which is that trayvon martin was on top in the altercation. on the other hand, he doesn't establish for the defense sort of their main contention, that trayvon martin was slamming zimmerman's head on to the ground. is this guy a wash or was he better for one side? >> i have a little bit of different perspective. i think he was the star witness for the defense because he confirms the essence of the defense story, that trayvon martin was on top, that george zimmerman was on the bottom, that george zimmerman was yelling for help, which has become a very important issue in this trial. he says that trayvon martin was raining down blows, mma style,

and this was just before the gunshot went off. and what happened just before the gunshot went off is really the key issue in this trial. now i don't want to overstate his testimony because he did hedge. sometimes he would say it looked like that, i can't be 100% sure. and his story has changed, just like rachel jeantel's story. his story has changed from prior statements to some extent. >> i want to hone in on what lisa was saying. when he was asked about who was yelling for help, he says twel seems logically that's who it would be. when he was asked about sort of the fundamental points who was yelling for help, sounded like he was just speculating based on what he logically thinks is the case. >> he was speculating but plant being the seed that trayvon martin might have initiated the contact. now we are going to the to the perception it was this violent confrontation and that ground-and-pound. so much of the facts in those early moments were muddled but the perception trayvon martin was this mma-trained fighter, they're playing on that and i

wonder how it will play with the jury. >> the ground-and-pound thing was something the defense kept repeating over and over again but the prosecution managed to establish that this is not what john good initially said. he thought that he remembered that he described the fight as ground-and-pound. it turns out he did not. >> he did not. but he did say there was grounding. he did say some of it. on my twitter page already people are asking me, well, why is it that on cross examination of this guy, whose story changed, these attorneys were a lot softer than they were on rachel jeantel who people felt got really tough questioning on cross examination. the answer is because the defense likes this witness. they don't want to be hard on this witness. they didn't like the testimony of rachel jeantel so of course they were tough on her. >> i want to go back to rachel jeantel, this has been the story. the treatment of her not only in court but outside of court as well, sort of people making fun of her, lo lo jones now piling on, comparing her to precious, the character in that film.

do you think the way rachl jeantel's being treated outside give negative implications for what might happen with those six jurors if they're seeing it the same way? >> i think it could. the thing sometimes we see of rape victims and shaming? people on twitter are feeling like an attack on jeantel is an attack on people from this community. is it a referendum on her diction and her dram mar and manner of speech and the cloak wallisms and slang she and trayvon martin uses especially referring to race? having this jury of five white women, it would be interested to see whether they are buying her story and credibility or if it was damaged by their filtered perceptions of who this person is and who maybe trayvon martin is. >> that was the culture piece we were talking about a little bit yesterday. you have this person whose manner of speaking where is unfamiliar. she's also not a native speaker. she revealed yesterday the original languages she spoke were spanish and creole. so that is also inhibiting her ability to be understood.

but is there also a cultural bias against her that could work against people believing her testimony? because she didn't change her story. her core story remained firm throughout? >> she did change her story about whether trayvon martin said get off, get off at the very end of the phone call. that's something she did not say in prior statements and i think that's a significant change. the core of her story didn't change that tray svon said he w being followed. you are putting your finger on an aspect of this trial, for the prosecution, rachel jeantel, for the defense, john good. the way these two witnesses communicated in that courtroom could not be more different. john good speaking relatively clearly and extremely concise. perhaps precise to a fault. defense would say you don't have to know 100%. you're able to say that's what it looked like and apply your common sense and reach a conclusion. that is acceptable in court. so he almost took it too far in terms of precision. it is very interesting to see the dynamic between these two people, obviously from different communities, different ways of communicating.

>> just on one legal point, i'll ask you both. the question over jeantel's story is who started the confrontation. she stuck to the fact trayvon martin was being followed, he didn't pursue george zimmerman. isn't that important? stand your ground sort of kicks in for trayvon martin, too, no? >> this is no longer a stand your ground case because the defense opted to not have a stand your ground hearing. this is their argument and they have to stick to it been zimmerman was down, trayvon martin was straddling him. had he no opportunity to run so stand your ground is no longer a part of this case anymore. they have to win that argument. >> but also i think in that laernlg cultural piece, how significant do you think now going in -- because we talked about the racial makeup of the jury. how significant is that at this point? >> i think it is significant. going back to yesterday, who initiated the fight. we go back to these different forms of communication. when the defense attorney said could he have been crouching

down or ready to pounce and she sa says that doesn't make sense, he'd have told me, i'm about to handle something. we're going back to those filters losing something in translation here. it is still important who had the right to defend themselves. >> i found one of these interesting questions yesterday i thought was a culturally odd moment when the defense asked rachel jeantel, when you heard this fight why didn't you call police. first, she was in miami. she'd be calling the police in the wrong city. second, in her community, is that what happens when you think -- she said she thought it was just a fight. so the idea that she would have pick up the phone and called the police because she heard what she thought was just a fight. >> i think that's an important point. communities in this country are not comfortable calling the police, that don't call the police in the same twha other people might. she also said based on a tv show that she likes to watch she expected that the police would call her. and she thought that zimmerman had already been apprehend sod there was no reason to call the police. smeep didn't think she was a witness because she only heard some of this on the phone, she wouldn't there.

>> i don't know if this was a result of the overall trial, interesting that we've gone back to mark o'mara and not don west. >> i think the styles are very much different. right? west seemed so aggressive. where mark o'mara, he's a little slick. he knows how to work his way around people's feelings an emotions. it is probably a smart move. i think because they might have lost a lot of steam yesterday after five hours, jon telestarted to become the victim in this and you started to feel bad for her, she's just who she is and she's trying her hard toast maintain some composure and give them what she needs. i think this was probably a smart one. >> it is so interesting to hear non-trial lawyers think don west is tough or okay noxious in the courtroom. i think's pretty much on the tame side, he's pretty calm, pretty nice. cross examining witnesses is what we trial lawyers do. we're not supposed to be particularly nice. respectful, yes, but we are supposed to point out inconsistencies, lies, even go for the jugular.

if wre representing any of us, we'd want him to do the same thing. >> there is a fragile balance. at what point do you tip toe up to the line and what point do you cross it? you're dealing with a young woman, have you a jury of mothers, and a suspected alleged murder after young man. at what point do you cross that line? >> people talk about this jury of women. i'm a woman, i can't speak for all woman but i don't expect an attorney to be any gentler to someone in the courtroom because i'm on the jury. but i think you make an important point, that is that if he goes too hard on a witness like rachel jeantel who is 19 years old whob struggles to communicate at times, it does backfire on him. his biggest problem in my opinion, his cross went on way too long, too much repetition. but pointing out inconsistencies in the testimony, absolutely what he should have been doing. >> this is a very fascinating discussion. i wish we had more time but we don't. don't miss lisa, as well as craig melvin. they'll have a special hour on the george zimmerman trial tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern

right here on msnbc. after the break, the gang of eight takes a bow after the senate passes comprehensive immigration reform. but as the attention shifts to john boehner around the raucous caucus, where's marco rubio? we'll preview the always unpredictable house next on "now." otherworldly things. but there are some things i've never seen before. this ge jet engine can understand 5,000 data samples per second. which is good for business. because planes use less fuel, spend less time on the ground and more time in the air. suddenly, faraway places don't seem so...far away. ♪ like other precious things that start off white, it yellows over time. fact is, when it comes to your smile, if you're not whitening, you're yellowing. crest 3d white whitestrips go below the enamel surface

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even in one of the most unproductive congresses in american history, there can be miracles. yesterday after weeks of debate and 18 votes, the senate voted 68-32 picking up all of the democrats and 14 republicans to pass the most significant overhaul in the nation's immigration laws in nearly three decades. while it was an uphill battle for the gang of eight, they managed to pull it off. senator, vietnam veteran and former prisoner of war john mccain joked with the

"washington post" that he knew the bill would eventually prevail because, "i was sure i was going to get out of prison one day." the bill creates a 13-year path to citizenship for 11 million undocumented immigrants, enhances the e-verify system for employers and increases border security. the vote was so significant that senators voted from their desks, a gesture reserved for key legislation. vice president joe biden made a rare appearance to preside over the roll call. after he read the results yesterday, biden was greeted by cheers from undocumented immigrants in the senate gallery, many of them young dreamers who broke out into applause and a familiar chant. >> the yeas on this bill are 68, the nays are 32. the bill, as amended, is passed. >> yes we can! yes we can! yes we can! >> sergeant at arms will restore order in the gallery. >> both president obama and janet napolitano praised the

bill's passage, and as they exited the senate chamber, the gang of eight was ecstatic. >> my pal, this great, great leader, is he so strong and he is so tough. and he smiled through it all. most of the time, except when he yells at people. which is most of the time. >> i have been leaked by the other seven members of our gang of eight as miss docongeniality. >> but that's not likely to move the gop house to a vote on the bill. that's where the bill faces its toughest hurdle. yesterday gang of eight senators urged the lower chamber to take up their bill. >> the bill has generated a level of support that we believe it will be impossible for the house to ignore. >> to our friends in the house, we ask for your consideration and we stand ready to sit down and negotiate with you. >> to our friends in the house, i understand that you may have a

different approach. speak with your voice. speak in a way that you feel comfortable. just don't ignore the issue. that's all i ask. >> i urge my colleagues in the house of representatives, many who i serve with in 14 years in the house, that this is a moment in history, that this is an opportunity to do exactly what we did, affect the lives of millions, promote the security of the nation, create a more robust economy, reduce the debt of the country. that's the opportunity before the house. i hope that they will take it. >> unfortunately, this message is likely to fall on deaf ears from the house gop or, as "the new york times" editorial put it, the republican majority in the house has its hands over its ears and is going "la la la la la la la." yesterday house speaker john boehner reiterated his stance at any immigration legislation won't come to the floor without the support of the majority of his members. >> the house is not going to take up and vote on whatever the

senate passes. we're going to do our own bill through regular order and there will be legislation that reflects the will of our majority and the will of the american people. for any legislation, including a conference report, to pass the house, it's going to have to be a bill that has the support of a majority of our members. >> joining me today, vice president of demos, heather mcgee. melissa harris kerry, and senior correspondent with bloomberg business week, josh green. with well, melissa, let's take a moment before we get -- let's have a moment. at least acknowledge the history of what happened yesterday. it may only be the senate but this was actually a big deal. >> i thought you meant the history of john boehner saying he wasn't going to bring something to the floor that a majority of his members have been against. that's been his standard

practice. this notion that he can't bring something to the floor -- also the language of we're not going to vote on something just because the senate passed it. yes, let's take a moment and say this is a moment where we finally see the senate, which has been so incompetent, it feels like, so unable to move forward, actually moving forward with what is at this point a striking bipartisan commitment. some folks typically the mavericks of their party are being the leaders. they are also saying, "our friends in the house," because they recognize how unlikely it is for this legislation to move forward. >> they're also begging saying please, take up our bill. doesn't legislation emerge from the lower chamber, go up to the senate? this is where the shous saying we'll pass a bill, then you think about it. >> the house can't get anything done so you have to figure out pressure points to get them to act. in this case, if you get enough bill with senate support the public opinion would be behind

it, they'd have to act. previously it was that they've learned lessons from the 2012 elections, they realize they have to get in cahoots with the hispanic community. now are you at the point what are the pressure points to get john boehner to act? there may have been a misstep with the senate strategy. they added the big border security element prior to senate passage. they needed to give house republicans a reason to come on board. 2,000 boa 20,000 border agents. there has to be a reason for the house republicans to come on-board. i can't think of one. >> the pressure points are supposed to be national election, the party's image. but house members don't have that incentive at all. they're in districts that are drawn on purpose to have very few hispanics in them anyway. they don't care. they're just looking out for their next election. >> that's true. but what's embedded in this bill, chuck schumer's strategy was sort of concede the border

security in the senate to get up to 70 votes. part of the idea was to build momentum to force the house to act. the other part -- this is what's really dangerous for republicans -- now it moves over to the senate -- or to the house and the onus is all on republicans. if it dies, they'll be blamed because it's a big bipartisan super majority in the senate. it will be clear to everyone who's responsible if it doesn't move forward. that's something that house republicans. >> the other thing, you couldn't make the counter argument, maybe you should have done it in the lead-up to the next presidential election in which case you do have to worry -- >> heather, saying there was a different time to do it. in 2006, nate cohen has written about this for the new republic. this happened before. in 2006 the senate voted for immigration reform, 62-32. the house killed it. this vote actually had a bigger margin but we've been here before where that didn't make a difference to the house. >> i think the only difference is that the national narrative has put this onus on the

republican party to appeal to what could be a future voting bloc that would have significance for them. but if you actually unpack what's in the bill, i think that the latino community is going to look for a little more than actually what's in the bill. i was with one of the original dreamers last night. she really talked about the build-up, militarization of the border, something that was extremely -- think about it. we're basically treating imgrants who come to this country like people who have designs on killing americans or hurting people. we're creating a military front at the border. we're also changing the family -- >> but only at one of the borders. >> the ground border. we're also getting rid of the diversity vita program which had a lot of african and caribbean communities coming in and really creating almost a sort of winners and losers kind of merit based system that is going to have a real affect on women who don't have as much education and employment opportunities in developing countries.

it actually says it is better for younger immigrants, more educated immigrants. if you look into the bill, it's a lot of sort of the right wing ethos on who sort of is fundamentally worthy or not. >> the lgbt community left out, no reunification there. how far right this bill looks to most of us, it is still not far right enough for the house. >> this is the point about who cares if in fact the onus falls on these house republicans. right? the only house republicans who are endangered if the plame for not passing this falls on them are those few remaining folks in the purplish moderate districts. those folks who are in those gerrymandered, highly red districts, if the so-called blame falls on them, that's fine. they'll be willing to stood up and say i was unwilling to go this direction. >> the washington establishment, business communities that care about this in the broader context of the presidential election, realizing essentially they're anchored to this house

majority and nothing else until they can fix it. >> that's the ongoing problem for them. the question whether or not there is a leadership that with wrangle those far right house republicans is the question of the party. >> the question becomes then do the senate republicans put enough pressure on us, do the chamber of commerce people put in your pressure on us. used to be talk radio, marco ma rubio could chins rush limbaugh. >> we have this graphic. since you financially mention marco rubio -- i'm amaced we had this whole discussion and never mentioned the guy for who this was his ticket to becoming a presidential level candidate. but this is how much marco rubio, the tea party darling, that is been turned on by his former friends. steve king saying rubio seems to be so damaged, it will be difficult for him to recover in iowa. sarah palin telling fox news -- i'm sorry she had to come back with all of her hair -- mar koc

rubio and all the others turned their back on the american public. 20,000 people. that's not enough for her. ann coulter, marco rubio is the jack kevorkian of the party. marco rubio has lost the support of his former right wing friends. >> you said it all. the question is like, do people follow this and say, oh, my god, i don't want to be turned on. i think, yes. the unfortunate thing here for the bill is that it's clear there is a bipartisan majority for it. i think it is pretty clear if boehner brought it up, there might be enough republicans. i'm curious to see how many trps has but it is very close to passage. i'm not sure what they can add to it without risking a backlash from the democratic side. >> here's what really scary. marco rubio still, however, might be able to win the

american presidency -- despite all of this because in fact the group -- the gang of folks who are going to run for the republican nomination actually aren't as -- sort of don't have the kind of appeal that a marco rubio has, and it is completely unclear who might be able to run and when on the democratic side. right? as much as all of this is deeply problematic for rubio now, the american public has a very short attention span. there's plenty of time for rubio to come back in terms of -- >> and claim ownership of john mccain's bill? >> mccain pushed comprehensive immigration reform, failed and became his party's nominee. there's a track record -- >> mitt romney pushed romney care and -- >> now we've dredged them back. ann coulter, sarah palin, john mccain and mitt romney. coming up, nelson mandela's ex-wife speaks out about the former south african president's health as president obama travels to the country. more on mandela's condition next.

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at this hour, former south african president nelson mandela remains in critical, but stable condition at a pretoria hospital. later today, president obama will arrive in the country for a three-day visit. the second stop on his three-nation africa tour. abore air force one, obama told reporters it was unclear whether the two men would meet saying he didn't want a photo-op to complicate matters for the ailing leader. speaking to reporters today for the first time, mandela's ex-wife, winnie mandela, says his health has improved. >> from what he was a few days ago, there is great improvement, but clinically he is still unwell. >> nbc's keir simmons is live in pretoria, south africa with the latest. >> reporter: good afternoon. in his comments to the

journalists, winnie mandela described nelson mandela -- who, by the way, she's been here almost every day in the more than two weeks nelson mandela has been in hospital behind me, though he's made great improvement, she said he remains unwell. jacob zuma explains nelson mandela as critically ill. crowds behind me are smaller than yesterday. perhaps not as celebratory as when we learned he was stable and doing better, but still critical. yesterday there were around 1,000 in the street dancing and singing. but still people are hoping and praying and going to the gates there and leaving good will messages for nelson mandela. >> are there any updates on whether or not it would even be feasible for president obama to meet with mandela? >> reporter: well, good question. would it be feasible? the other thing is whether or not medically it would and good

idea. nelson mandela's daughter zindzi has talked about it as a possibility but she said the doctors would need to give it the okay. meanwhile, president obama has said on board air force one to reporters we'll see what happens when we're on the ground. what the situation is when we're on the ground. so i think it is a possibility, but probably just that, joy, a possibility. >> okay, nbc's keir simmons, thank you very much. after the break, with landmark supreme court decisions, the passing of immigration reform, and the start of testimony in the george zimmerman trial, it's hard to remember how this week began. with a round-the-world chase. but just like sunday, today the world is still waiting for signs of movement from edward snowden. we'll get the latest on the nsa leaker and discuss revelations about another alleged leaker when the spokesman for wikileaks joins us on set next on "now." ♪

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this week began with the news that edward snowden had fled hong kong for russia. >> we've got breaking news here that we are following this morning. nsa leaker edward snowden is on the move. >> big news overnight. edward snowden fled hong kong on a russian commercial airliner and there are reports he may be headed to another communist country. >> hong kong authorities allowed him to leave the country, reportedly on a flight to moscow. >> five days later, already in pursuit of one leaker, the obama administration is now dealing with another. this time a former member of its own inner circle. last night nbc news was first to report that retired four-star general james cartwright is the target after justice department criminal investigation in to a leak last year to "the new york times." detailing a u.s. cyber attack on iran. that story written by the "times" david sanger revealed

that the computer worm in 2010 destroyed 1 million centrifuges. cartwright who oversaw the program and who served as the nation's second highest ranking military officer has yet to be formally charged. the news came after president obama sought to down play the administration's quest to gain custody of snowden who is still believed to be in hiding in a moscow airport. obama also addressed the delicate diplomatic balancing act required in the wake of snowden's leak. >> we've got a whole lot of business that we do with china and russia and i'm not going to have one case of a suspect who we're trying to extradite suddenly being elevated to the point where i've got to start doing wheeling and dealing and trading on a whole host of other issues. >> snowden is believed to have some 200 other secret documents in his possession. another of which was revealed by

"the guardian" yesterday with the paper reporting that for two years the obama administration continued to bush era program in which the nsa collected bulk email today that before the program was ended in 2011. snowden's father lonnie told nbc's michael isikoff that he was sending a letter to attorney general eric holder saying he thinks his son would be prepared to return home if the doj allowed him to choose the location of his trial. >> at this point i don't feel he's committed treason. he has in fact broken u.s. law in the sense that he has released classified information, and if folks want to classify him as a traitor -- in fact, he has betrayed his government. but i don't believe that he bewould betray the people of the united states. >> the united states continued to defend the data mining programs saying yesterday they helped disrupt 54 terrorist activities, including 42 active

plots, 13 of which were inside the united states. joining me now, wikileaks spokesm spokesman, thanks for coming back. obviously the most important question -- is edward snowden still hold up in the moscow airport? >> i can't reveal his exact location or his travel plans. >> the russians have revealed his exact lotion. they said he was in the moscow airport. wikileaks is paying for his travel. do you guys not know where he is. >> we of course know where he is. we do have a hand of paying for his travel from hong kong to moscow, that's correct. >> if he were to travel on to the next country, he's half indicated he wants to go to south america, wikileaks would pay for that, too? is. >> that remains to be seen. >> that but if you didn't pay for it, who would? isn't wikileaks providing him with legal counsel? someone traveling with him? >> there is a legal aid on his behalf traveling with him. he has access to persons in our legal team and we did connect our legal team with his legal advisors. >> who's paying for those legal advisers? >> our legal advisers? some we are paying ourselves and

some are working pro bono. >> i wonder if there was money from -- there is an organization that raises money for wikileaks. freedom of the press foundation. is that organization involved in paying for mr. snowden's travel? >> the money that we have access to comes from various sources. one is the freedom of the press foundation. we have a fund in france as well that's collecting money on our behalf. despite the banking block on us, we have funds in ice lan from prior to the banking blockade against the organization. >>sky that because two journalists obviously mr. snowden gave on some of the leaked information to are on the board of the freedom of the press foundation. were you aware of that when wikileaks began paying for his travel? >> i was aware of their position on the board of the freedom of press foundation, yes. >> i want your reaction to something lonnie snowden, mr. snowden's father, said. "i don't want him to put him in peril," meaning his son, "but i am concerned about those who surround him.

wikileaks' focus is not necessarily on the constitution of the united states but simply to release as much information as possible. >> i think mr. snowden has been ill-informed by mainstream media in this had country and he has no accurate information about the organization. we are concerned about human rights. we are concerned about the freedom of speech and -- >> he mentioned the u.s. constitution. >> of course we would support the constitution if it pertains to that issue. >> let me ask you whether edward snowden was ill-informed about wikileaks in 2009. that was his screen name. he was talking about a previous leak in a january 10, 2009 report that president bush turned down a request for israelis to bunker busting bombs that it wanted to use to attack iran's main nuclear site. he put up wtf, "new york times," are they trying to start a war?

was he essentially ill-informed as well when he said essentially "the new york times" was like wikileaks in a bad way for leaking information? >> it has not been confirmed this is actually from fl mr. snowed. >> actually, it has been confirmed. >> if so, he's obviously changed his position in 2009 and every person should be allowed to change his opinion in a positive way as he has done. >> i want to open it up to the panel. one of the additional countries added to the potential country hopping that mr. snoweden is doing is venezuela which has said they'd gladly accept mr. snowden. now we have a trifecta of countries that may be -- in addition to ecuador. >> i am constantly shock by this story over the course of the week in that we have clearly an international group of people who are providing resources to keep someone who's broken american law from having to stand for justice in this country, in a way that i feel like if this were true of

someone who had had committed a clear terrorist attack, or even someone who had simply come into this country illegally, wouldn't we look at sort of the idea that this father would say, well, he'll be happy to come home as long as he's not detained. the level of sort of privilege associated with such a discourse suggests that we should not be taking this seriously. i wonder if we're even taking it seriously enough, the idea that this individual, who as far as i can tell his opinion has changed, primarily to save his observe ski own skin. but his willing tose in take refuge in countries whose public information on human rights is in fact worse than the united states of america, for whom i have many important critiques. and yet the idea that the human rights violations in china, in venezuela, in ecuador, in russia would somehow be less relevant to him is clearly simply because he's only saving his own skin. in this country those who have decided to take a position of civil disobedience, because they

love and care about their country and want to extend the constitution have always done so with a recognition that doing so also means standing for the consequences of breaking those laws and when they have done that, they have changed the country. but this going on the run thing? this is different. this is dangerous to our nation. >> i want to clarify, the venezuelan president nicholas medoro said his government would almost certainly grant mr. snowden asylum if he should apply. >> as i understand the constitution and what is at stake here, i have a reflection back to the nixon era when president nixon sat in the infamous interview with david frost when he said well when the president does it, it means that it is not illegal. that is the issue -- >> are you saying i would need to think more about the constitution? >> we got now revelations about the collections of data on -- >> this is about his

unwillingness to stand -- >> who sends what to whom, where he was when he sent it. >> if you think about the journalists who have gone to jail in this country because they were unwilling to give up the name of their sources. for themvy great respect, because what they do is they recognize the value, for example, of the freedom of the press stated in the constitution. they break a law, a statute, but then they stand for the consequenc consequences. that's not what's happening here. we must recognize that this individual in these circumstances can now be pressured by nations that do in fact potentially cause harm to us as a nation and he in this attempt to save his own skin, it is how we know who conscientious objectors are, because they are always willing to stand for the consequences. his unwillingness to do it -- >> i'm sorry, unfortunately we are out of time. i want to point out as we go to break, the comparison to nixon is ill-informed because in this case the first thing mr. snowden leaked was a court order. did he not expose anything that was illegal. you may disagree with the

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paula deen is on a tearful tour of the airwaves trying to explain her use of racial slurs in the past. but despite the mea culpa, she's struggling to hold on to her sponsors. deen has already lost the food network, qvc, target, sears, home depot, caesar's casinos, walmart and smithfields. but all is not lost for her grease fire. her cookbook sales are through the roof. you've talked about this empire

coming apart. >>? corporate america, racism is something no brand or company wants to be associated with. that's why you've basically every sponsor flee from paula deen even though there are some groups of supporters who are go on amazon and buy her cook books. >> she's trying to say it is generational, or her region. "the woman is 66. not 96. she was all of 7 when the supreme court issued its brown v. board of education decision which means she's had plenty of get used to it. she spent her adult life in america where black people are not compelled to be subservient to whites. i hope she figures it out. a period of silence would be a start. my advice -- eat some hush puppies and don't talk with your mouthful. >> you can't sanitize about having a plantation wedding where all of the servants are black. i actually have a little problem with the fact that the right is

really going to use this to say that here is another victim of the sort of black backlash and we can't say anything. actual tli sets up that what racism is now is just using the "n" word and in fact there are so much more that's racist today in the way that corporations have power in the country to do things like voter i.d. laws. there's so much more that's not structural, more than just a southern woman using the "n" word among her friends. >> i can understand why she'd be confused given the aunt jemima box. she becomes the thing we can cast all of our anxiety. then we don't have to cope with the fact that the cleveland indians have a sambo mascot and so on one hand, clearly he is

right but on the other hand, maybe she is confused when she accept so much racism in our food industry. >> not to mention the real structural problem we face is a supreme court in which the person who wrote the majority decision striking down the voting rights act called it racial entitlements. well, thank you very much. this has been a big show. catch melissa this an ef weekend morning on "the melissa harris-perry show" and 10:00 a.m. eastern right here on msnbc. 10:00 a.m. that's all for now. i'll see you back here monday at noon eastern. until then, can you catch us on facebook.com/nowwithalex. i lov. ♪ [ grunts ] yowza! that's why i eat belvita at breakfast. it's made with delicious ingredients and carefully baked to release steady energy that lasts... we are golfing now, buddy! [ grunts ]

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message to nelson mandela's family of gratitude. >> from what he was a few days ago, there is great improvement but clinically he he is still unwell. the bill as amended is passed. >> a major step toward landmark legislation as the senate passes its sweeping immigration reform bill with wide bipartisan support. now we call on our friend in the house. meet the same challenge. convince america that your election was worth the vote. president obama calls speaker boehner from air force one today urging action. but is the bill back to square one when it gets to the house? >> the house is not going to take up and vote on whatever the senate passes. we're going to do our own bill through regular order and there will be legislation that reflects the wl