message to nelson mandela's family of gratitude. >> from what he was a few days ago, there is great improvement but clinically he he is still unwell. the bill as amended is passed. >> a major step toward landmark legislation as the senate passes its sweeping immigration reform bill with wide bipartisan support. now we call on our friend in the house. meet the same challenge. convince america that your election was worth the vote. president obama calls speaker boehner from air force one today urging action. but is the bill back to square one when it gets to the house? >> the house is not going to take up and vote on whatever the senate passes. we're going to do our own bill through regular order and there will be legislation that reflects the will of our

majority and the will of the american people. texas two-step. governor rick perry lashes out at democrat state senator wendy davis after her epic filibuster blocked a vote to restrict abortions and shut down clinics. >> it's just unfortunate that she hasn't learned from her own example that every life must be given a chance to realize its full potential and that every life matters. >> now the governor's called a special session on monday to try a vote again. this morning davis spoke out on "morning joe." >> it's a sad state of affairs that politicians like governor perry and lieutenant governor dewhurst have decided this intrusion on a woman's personal decision making should be used as a political pawn for their own higher aspirations and that's exactly what's going on

here. where is edward snoweden? a new clue from "the daily show" last night. >> you said that i've been hanging out in edward snowden in an yound ground bunker? >> because you're saying that would not be true. is that what you're saying? >> sure. good day, i'm andrea mitchell live in colorado at the aspen ideas festival. supporters of the bipartisan immigration bill are looking to the house where it faces an uncertain future. today the president called speaker baber fr e e e er boehn capitol hill. kelly o'donnell joins from us capitol hill. >> reporter: they do not like to take what comes from the senate sort of without their own voice, their own fingerprints on it. while there is a lot of concern among immigration supporters, those who want reform, because the senate vote was so tough, because that package was so hard fought, they'd like to see a

vote on that. now on the house side, they're saying they want to go through their own process, write their own legislation and focus on some things that they think the senate didn't do very well, in particular, there are critics who say the border is not protected enough, that there won't be guarantees for that added security despite the big surge. also interior enforcement, meaning if people overstay their visas or some of the workplace verification that the house side says it wants to focus on. so this is about individual members all wanting to have their own voice since they'll be held accountable for what they pass or don't pass. so it is going to take some time. eventually there is a scenario where the senate bill could be voted on by the house but we're going to have to watch the process unfold on the house side, on their own terms. >> joining me now -- stay with us, please. but joining us now for our "daily fix," chris ziz lcillizz

kelly o'donnell is staying with us. first, chris cillizza, what the house is saying sounds like a dodge. already john mccain said it that they were spending more on border controls than they even needed just to get the bipartisan senate bill through. isn't the house trying to slow it down to a crawl really by breaking it down into individual pieces rather than taking the senate bill and amending it or dealing with it in conference? >> andrea, i think there's two things at work here. i think one is the sort of age-old dynamic between the senate and the house that the house does not like the idea that the senate is the big brother and the house is the little brother and the big brother sort of dictates what they're doing legislatively and the little brother goes along. some of it is that tension. some of it is also the fact that the senate republicans, there is just more of a desire -- we saw

this on the farm bill, some republicans crossing over voting with democrats, 65, 66, 68 votes for immigration, that we've not seen in the house. the house conference is more conservative than the senate republican conference and i think as a result, you saw the farm bill fail, you will see a resistance i think to a pathway to citizenship being included in any kind of immigration bill. i think there's both of those d dynamics contributing to a slowing down and less likelihood of passage in the house than in the senate. >> mike allen, you follow this dynamic. let's talk about what you're seeing from the house side and also i want to talk about the irs hearings. hearings today, they decided that lois lerner, the irs official had no right to take the fifth amendment because she talked too much in her declaration of innocence. is that just more of the darrel

issa oversight side show or is there a serious issue here? >> well, it is a side show but it is his hide show and he can do this. this is something that republicans say they are going to use going into the '14 elections, the '16 elections. we'll probably hear years of talk about the irs because this is a way for them to say this is big government. remind people of big government. so they want to take the irs and move on to epa and homeland security and to continue to drive that narrative on immigration &, andrea, house leaders know that if the vote were taken today, it would lose. so they're going to give this issue some time to breathe. they think immigration's important. speaker boehner said he wants it, he knows it is important for the future of the party. he knows it is important for his legacy. >> so it is possible that boehner said to the president, work with me here, give me some time -- there's not a whole lot of trust between boehner and the president given the grand bargain and all the other things that blew up, but on this he needs a house vote.

>> the president has tended not to give him space. but politico is reporting today that house leaders are willing to let this go all year to wait until december to have a vote on this. if that's what it takes to convince members that they should go along with it. now speaker boehner set a high bar for himself. he's said that he won't pass this just relying on democratic votes. which i think he could do. i still wonder, if when we come down to christmas eve that's what's going to happen. but if he's saying at the moment if it passes, it will be with republicans votes. >> jeffrey, so much going on in foreign policy. edward snowden. now we hear the venezuelan leader, obviously an anti-american state, had an energy summit in russia, is going to be there on sunday and reports out of caracas -- >> we were about to have an energy summit in the transit lounge of the moscow airport. >> who knows? would he be possibly taking snowden back on his plane with him? >> there is a possibility that venezuelan, ecuador, obviously

the countries that are most in play. though there is some speculation about moscow. two interesting things are going on right now. one is that snowden's father is talking about conditions in which snowden would return to america. obviously as a father he's interested in having him back. i'm not sure the federal government is interested in meeting those conditions. >> to not be in jail. >> to pick a location for his trial and all sorts of thing i don't think prosecutors are that interested in. the other thing is that, our government, united states government, has made a big shift on this in the last week. we were gearing up for a full international crisis with china and russia and now we're talking about snowden as a hacker. >> he's just another hacker. >> just another hacker who happens to be living in the moscow airport with laptop -- >> trying to avoid a full-scale crisis leader to leader. they don't want to get the president and putin face to face on this. >> but that's never going to fly. every moment that we're playing

where in the world is edward snowden, it is going to be a problem for the administration and until he is caught it will keep being the story. every single time he moves it is going to be a huge story. the president is trying to dismiss him as a 20-something. but this is embarrassing. this is a super power that can't get what it wants from any its supposed allies. >> this is not just another hacker, nor is this a media frenzy over where in the world is -- this is the worst security leak in american history given what i'm told of the damage assessment. there are more than 1 million documents that are taken. >> that the chinese and russians have all of now. >> and it has completely undercut a number of greemagree, bilateral agreements. we were close to agreements on cyber security that involved brazil and other nations. that's all blown up. china is now -- china knew we were spying on them, they are spying on us, but it's completely blown up any kind of bilateral negligences with the chinese. >> we now know that we can't count on those countries when we need them which is sobering for

the west wing. >> i don't think there was a great belief they were going to be friendly about these issues. but you are absolutely right, this is bigger than the white house wants it to be at this point. >> jeff, before i let you go, i want to ask you also about general cartwright who's the number two former vice chair of the joint chiefs. very close to president obama but president obama pointedly did not promote him so they were already issues there with the pentagon. he was known as being dovish on the surge in afghanistan and didn't have a whole lot of allies among some of his pentagon troops but he is very popular on the hill, especially with the intelligence committees. now according to michael isikoff's reporting, michael isikoff is reporting that the justice department is looking at him as a prime suspect. he's not been charged, but a prime suspect in the stuxnet leak -- >> very serious leak. >> to david sanger. brilliant book by sanger, of the

"new york times," on the whole issue of how we slowed down the iranian nuclear program with israel working to undermine their computers. >> it is kind of hard to understand the motivation. >> it could have been an inadvertent leak which was also the case in the valerie plame case. >> i'm probably in the minority on this but this strikes me as as big a deal in snowden in a kind of way. we aren't talking about a disaffected 29-year-old hacker. we're talking one of the nation's senior-most military leaders. a criminal investigation. i think this is going to have an impact -- again, we've talked a lot in recent days about the chilling effect all these leak investigations have on journalism in washington. but from a national security side, that was a pretty amazing leak and it did clue the iranians in to what we were doing. >> it was an astonishing leak. this was the first offensive act of cyber warfare by the united states. now very difficult to deny. >> that we november, at least.

thanks very much, jeffrey goldberg, mike allen here. thanks, chris cillizza and kelly o'donnell back in washington. the final tally on historic vote on immigration yesterday, a 68 yeas to 32 nays but there was almost one more yea. kansas republican senator jerry moran had been emphatically against the bill but during the roll call a slip of the tongue nearly had him switching sides. senate chamber erupted in laughter at the close call. >> mr. moran. >> aye -- i'm sorry. no. p our commitments. p our commitments. and we've made a big commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here in the last five years - making bp america's largest energy investor. our commitment has never been stronger.

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secretary of state john kerry is at it again today, shuttling between israeli and palestinian leaders. this is his fifth visit to the region since he replaced hillary

clinton as secretary. but next door in egypt, the first arab country to make peace with israel 34 years ago. proest against the muslim brotherhood and morsi government are marshalling forces this weekend in what some are calling second egyptian revolution on the first anniversary of morsi. joining me now, a woman who knows shuttle diplomacy well, forl former secretary of state, madelyn albright, head of the albright group. >> wonderful to be with you. thanks. >> egypt. we are expect huge demonstrations. there are already demonstrations put out by the government today. what we are really expecting is the opposition to take to the streets on sunday and already i'm hearing from arab leaders, you you surely are as well, who are here and elsewhere, that they really say this is a test also for the united states. many feel that the united states abandoned mubarak and they do not want to see the united states supporting muslim brotherhood in this instance. >> well, what i understand is going on is that the united states has made very clear that we want to see a democratic

process continue and president morsi was elected democratically, but what is important about democracy is listening to the people and trying to figure out how to solve problems in a non-violent way and that is what should be happening. one of the things i've been talking about, andrea, it is very hard to move from tahrir square to governance. the question is how those that are protesting actually express their views, can they do it in a non-violent way. should they be looking for channels of communication, and for president morsi to really be listening to what the people have to say. he took over a pretty tough situation. he's obviously made mistakes and i think the issue is how to get them both to compromise and to listen to each other. >> what do we do if the military does take strong action against the protesters? >> well, i hope they don't. i mean i really do think that one of the issues that happens here is violence which then escalates into worse things.

and so i would hope that the protesters -- and they have a right to protest. i think that is one of the aspects of democracy, is that you are allowed to have peaceful, non-violent protests which should not be responded to with violence. but in many ways, andrea, this is not america's story. we are not the ones making the decisions about what goes on there. we support democratic elections and we support the fact that there are compromises made between parties that didn't agree on a way forward. >> it is a test of american leadership, which is already being tested by syria. you've just come back from visiting the refugee camps last week in jordan and you saw just how overwhelming it is for jordan, which is doing so much for these people. tell me about king abdullah, our strongest ally, in the arab world and what you expect as this syrian conflict spills over. >> it's a very difficult situation. jordan is a small country with a 7 million population that has

palestinian refugees, syrian refugees, iraqi refugees. also a very difficult economic situation themselves in terms of their economy, how many jobs there are. i think they're playing a very important role. king abdullah, i think, is trying to sort out how in fact to make his monarchy, the taz, legitimacy and also respond to some of the issues out there, demands, being made against him and i think he is going about it in a very systematic way. but the syrian issue for me is of great concern because it definitely is spreading into the region and is kind of inkblot worry about what's happening in lebanon, jordan and iraq as a result of it. >> the president did change poll say couple of weeks naeg terms of arming the rebels, selected, vetted groups of rebels, whatever that really means on the ground once you get into conflict. but is it too little too late as john mccain and lindsey graham and other critics have said?

we read that john kerry wanted more around was pushing hard for more, and that what really tipped the president from his cautious approach was the fact hezbollah was all in, and that it was clear you could have an outcome where iran and hezbollah and russia were winning, assad would remain and the united states would be completely at a loss as to what to do in the region. >> i do not think it is too little, too late. i mean the situation has obviously gotten worse. there was kind of proof that the chemical weapons had been used, and also as you have pointed out, hezbollah and others are getting involved in it. and i think the president has been measured in his response to it, has been very careful i think in terms of getting advice. obviously i can tell you, there always is a lot of conflicting advice given to a president. and i think that's what's happening now in terms of providing support, more and more support to the rebels, as they are being vetted, i think

ultimately, andrea, there's no way that this is going to be solved militarily. i think it is going to have to be a political solution and i hope very much that the geneva process is something that goes forward in terms of where the rebels and the regime there are able to look and try to figure out some kind after transitional government. but it is exceptionally complicated and the u.s. role is a very difficult one in this. >> there were 100,000 already dead. i recall, as you know better than anyone, that during the internal debates over whether to intervene in bosnia when people were being slaughtered and there was ethnic cleansing and there was a debate that you and colin powell engaged in, in the national security council in his memoir you said what's the point of having this superb military you are always talking about if you want use it? he said that almost gave him an aneurism and you replied to that. >> i mean i do think that there is a responsibility in the international community to protect those that are in fact being murdered or ethnically

cleanses for no reason whatsoever. and i would hope that the international community -- there's this whole new concept, responsibility to protect would be more active, the humanitarian situation is disastrous. i do think that the international community needs to do more in that regard and, in terms of military, it doesn't always have to be boots on the ground. i do think that the president has made clear that we're going to be supplying some assistance to the rebels. >> at this moment with nelson mandela in critical condition and the president about to touch down in pretoria, your thoughts about mandela. you have worked so hard on reconciliation and you know him and have visited -- >> i have to say, one of the great honors of my life was meeting nelson mandela and when i was ambassador at the u.n., he walked up to me, he said hello, i'm nelson mandela, like i wouldn't know. and a remarkable person. what i have said about him is, his capability of being able to forgive his jailers and to spend the time trying to figure out

how he could learn more about them and figure out ways of reconciliation. when people ask me who i admire most, they are people that are able to forgive. aung san suu kyi is another but nelson man lel todaydela stands way that's unparalleled in terms of how to survive 27 years in jail and then come out and be somebody that can lead a nation and change a country, but also change the world. his aspect of reconciliation is something that i think we should all learn and study from. you asked me difficult questions about egypt and syria. reconciliation is a very important part of those stories also. >> madelyn albright, madam secretary, lot of pin, lady liberty. >> thanks very much. good to be with you. we want a firsthand look at the first family's travels in africa. we'll follow the first lady on

instagram. michelle obama join the photo sharing social network yesterday posting pictures and a video from sen gal, their first stop on this week-long tour. some of the most remarkable snapshots the first lady has post sod far from their visit to the slave prison yesterday. in this photo, the door of no return. a former entrance to slave ships. it was profound trip for the first family. the stunning shot from the ap shows the president looking out from that door. is like hammering.

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should they take up the senate bill, amend it on the floor, go to conference, have a compromise bill come out of that? >> i think they should pass an immigration bill but make sure it is one the house feels comfortable with. the process is designed to have the house and senate work out their differences and get a bill to the president that can be properly considered. i don't think they need to take the senate bill lock, stock and barrel. they have different ideas and views, let it play out. >> but they can do that and amend it and work it out and then go to conference. they don't have to start all over again. >> that's another way to do it. i don't think the people are so hung up on the procedure. they want to see a reasonable outcome. the country of course is suffering and waiting for -- the fact that our immigration system is broken. this is an opportunity to fix it. this is an historic moment where there is someson consensus in washington, d.c. where there is a possible outcome. >> doesn't republican party need to have this immigration bill passed given the demography, just given what happened in the last election, going forward? isn't this a pivotal point? marco rubio made that very

clear -- >> yes, but not at all costs. i think the country could benefit from a wise and reasoned and workable immigration bill. elements of the senate bill, border security and pathway to legal status and some others are really important. but you can't ask house members to say we're just going to rubber stamp it because of politics. they have to weigh in substantively and they should. >> another big issue that's a real crunch issue for republicans, and democrats, the issue of abortion. certainly the women's vote becoming more and more important. what about what happened in texas with the filibuster, now rick perry is coming back on monday and saying he's going to go at it again and it is a very restrictive bill. i know your views on abortion but do you think that the state of texas is being too restrictive and eliminating most of the clinics and -- >> i saw the kerfuffle but i haven't seen the context.

>> it would close all of the abortion services in texas and restrict abortions, make them available far less than row v. wade. so it would eventually become a constitutional issue. >> i'm not aware that a state can undermine row v. wade. row v. wade is a supreme court decision and that's a minimum standard i think. so i don't think a state could overturn that or contradict it because that is a contusional standard. >> where do you think the party needs to come down on all of these wedge issues that have made it harder for republicans to win national elections? >> in terms of national elections, if you look at the affect of the abortion issue, you got to control for places like new york and california but the country is about evenly divided on the abortion issue. for every moderate you might lose you might gain somebody from the other side who has somebody who lines up with you. but on a state by state level, it is a much more pronounced issue. if you're running for a state wide issue in california and are pro-life, that's a steeper hill

to climb than if you run say nationally because the country as a whole is still mixed on the issue. >> i know you are here talking about cyber security. it is a front and center issue with what happened with edward snowden. you're involved with the financial services industry, an industry that's critically dependent on cyber security and not having hackers come in and do what snowden admittedly did to the u.s. government. >> as to snowden, i think as more information comes out we see this was really somebody whose motivations are at least now in question. his subsequent actions i think reveal somebody who had motives behind the high-minded motives he's articulated. he's not really announcing anything new. back to the front page of "usa today" in 2006, it is in the law. millions of metadata files have been looked out, 300 a year actually looked at in content and 50 terrorist incidents

prevented with no violations of the law that have been demonstrated. he is not a whistle-blower. he didn't say i'm whistle blowing a violation of the law. he's disclosing something that was generally known. by the way, the program's run pretty well. >> thank you very much, governor pawlenty. chuck todd now joins me from pretoria just having landed in south africa. chuck, the president, a lot of talk about how much he talked on air force one i know about how much mandela meant to him. we know that they met in 2005 when he was a senator. would it be appropriate now for a hospital visit or does he simply want to pay respects to the family at this critical time? >> reporter: minor correction. we are in johannesburg. tomorrow the president will be in pretoria. we'll follow him to pretoria. but tonight we're overnighting in johannesburg. but as for what the president said, what we've heard behind the scenes, it's up to the family. if the family wants him to visit, he'll visit. if the family doesn't think it is a good idea, he's not going

to go. they're not pushing -- look, it is a very sensitive time, and frankly, i'm sure a lot of people can relate to when you want to visit somebody you care about, you respect, you love, in a hospital room. it really always depends i think on what the family wants, what kind of condition, what doctors want. at that point that's where the white house is on this. that's where the president is on this. that's what he seemed to express on air force one. obviously his health is hanging over this entire visit to south africa a little bit. though somewhat obviously overshadowing it because there is this gathering of the international media that have been here for over a week watching the condition. >> what are the other goals that the president has in south frick or will it be impossible to accomplish anything other than, of course, the conversation about nelson mandela, his legacy, his health? >> well, i think you you heard a

little bit. the other part of the president's visit, air force one and the gaggle he did off camera, was to talk about why he's in africa, what the competitive pressures there are on the united states to be in africa, because you've got china and brazil investing. he was at a food expo today in senegal before he left senegal. he's still airborne now. we beat him here, by the way, to south africa. you know the way that leapfrogging works sometimes. but that's what he was talking about on air force one, is this issue of figuring out as the u.s. government budgets are tighter and harder to get money for aid to africa directly from the government, the president here wants to be pushing public-private partnerships. some ceos, some business leaders are coming offense with him on this part of the trip, both in south africa and in tanzania. he's talking about how they're trying to create this sort of dollar for dollar -- a dollar of

government investment and figure out how to get a private capital match. so that it isn't a dependent continent. he was talking about that today. but that you figure out how to sort of start better farming techniques, so that you develop a middle class, so incomes rise, so it is -- you're sort of weaning the idea off so that every president in ten years -- frankly, everyone of them does, comes over here and wonders, why can't we do more? why is it so hard to get africa out of this collective poverty? >> chuck todd, the advance party for the president of the united states in south africa. thank you very much. safe travels, my friend. joining me now here in's sp aspen, mechanically barnes. chairman for the global forum for solutions. >> always a pleasure to be with with you. >> melody, talk about nelson mandela for a moment. he had such an impact as an

inspiration for barack obama. barack obama wrote the forward to nelson mandela's last book. tell us what mandela meant to him. >> i think for the the president, for many of us, nelson mandela is just one of the great leaders of our time and not only was he the first elected leader after apartheid, but he was a leader in the sense that he showed us a graceful way to move his country forward. i think the president coming to lead this country at such a turbulent time reflects on that and the way that mandela did that with grace and dignity and integrity and intelligence and i think that's what he means to us as a symbol and as a leader. >> now we're here talking about education as well as part of our nbc news/msnbc commitment to education nation. and you're launching this new aspen initiative on community solutions which will affect all of our school children.

tell us about your plan. >> i'm really excited about this. there are at least 7 million kids in this country 16 to 24 years old who are disconnected from our education system, disconnected from our employment system, it's almost as though they've gone missing. and i started work in the white house under the president's direction with a bipartisan council to look at why some communities were doing such smart things to reconnect those kids, to create pathways for them and we started a program here at aspen that continues that work. yesterday we announced that there are 21 communities all over the country, urban and rural and tribal, that are going to receive funds from our incentive fund that will help them continue this cross sector collaborative work that helps reconnect those young people to civic society, to education, to employment, to a better life. >> just to punctuate the need and how vast it is, there was a report out of d.o.e. yesterday that high school seniors are now fare nothing better in reading or math than students did in the 1970s, and that the news was a

little bit brighter for minorities, for blacks and hispanics with the greatest gain in reading and math scores. but there really is a huge gaping -- >> absolutely. >> -- gap here that we haven't closed with all of our initiativ initiatives, with all of education reform in different parts of the country. >> it is a significant problem particularly when we realize to be competitive as a nation and for individuals to be competitive, they're going to need some kind of credential after they've finished high school, whether that's a certificate or a two-year degree from a community college or to go on to a four-year university. unless we find a way for all of our children to succeed, those who may have dropped out of school but are going to be reclaimed, those who may slip through the cracks of our foster care system. unless we do that for every child and provide an excellent education, we won't have done our duty as a nation. we believe this initiative aligned with many others that i helped the president work on when i was in the white house will accomplish that goal.

>> melody barnes, thank you. >> thank you so much. we'll be right back. what are you guys doing? having some fiber! with new phillips' fiber good gummies. they're fruity delicious! just two gummies have 4 grams of fiber! to help support regularity! i want some... [ woman ] hop on over! [ marge ] fiber the fun way, from phillips'.

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now where's the snooze button? witness testimony is now continuing in sanford, florida, in the george zimmerman trial. on the stand right now, a neighbor in the gated community where trayvon martin was fatally shot in 2012. he's testifying his wife jeanie had testified earlier in the week. msnbc legal analyst lisa bloom now joins me. set the stage, lisa. >> this is a neighborhood resident, as you say, and he's just testified that right after the shooting he was the first person to talk to george zimmerman, even before the police arrived. zimmerman was very calm. did he not appear to be in shock and was a bit abrupt with him. on cross examination though he admits that zimmerman was fully cooperative with the police. >> and during the direct testimony, how difficult was that direct testimony or how difficult was the cross examination, were there any gaps if his testimony? and how do you evaluate his testimony in terms of the

importance to what the jury is hearing? >> well, it's not the most significant witness in the trial, but remember, state of mind of george zimmerman is one of the big issues in this case. and so when the jury hears that george zimmerman appeared very calm immediately after the shooting, he did not appear to be in shock. he was able to answer questions. he asked this man to call his wife and let her know that he had had been involved in a shooting. i mean that gives the jury a sense of george zimmerman's demeanor right after the shooting. but the defense is scoring some points as well on cross examination that this witness does not particularly knowledgeable about what constitutes shock. in fact, i had never seen an incident like this before. >> lisa bloom. let's go to the trial right now and pick it up with the testimony. >> -- that show trayvon martin lying on the ground following the shot. those are in evidence as 77 and

78. could we -- first of all, we're going to show those here in just a second. but the exact position that's shown in the photograph is the exact position that you personally saw with your eyes trayvon martin's body. >> yes. >> you saw his legs kind of spread like this, almost as if he were riding a bicycle? >> i don't remember. >> let's take a look at 77. would you pull that up, please? >> you want 77 or 78? >> i don't care. we'll start with this one.

mr. minolo, you took this photo of trayvon martin -- >> and as they look at some of these exhibits, lisa bloom, tell us at this point what they're looking at and the significance to the case. >> they're looking at a photo of trayvon martin lying face down rais right after the shooting. it is a tough photo to look at, i'm sure, especially for trayvon martin's family. it has come into evidence already. this witness also took it upon himself to take a cell phone photo of the back of george zimmerman's head immediately after the shooting, which shows some lacerations and some blood dripping down. that's already been shown to the jury as well. >> let's go back to the key testimony already yesterday from the key witness, of course, who had been on the phone with trayvon martin right up until the moment when he died. what is your evaluation? you've been following social media and analyzing this pretty clearly. >> you know, rachel jeantel is

such a key prosecution witness because she was on the phone with trayvon martin in the lead-up to the shooting that took his life. and she remained consistent and core of her testimony that trayvon martin told her a couple of times that he was being followed and that he was concerned about it. on cross examination, which went on for many hours, however, she did have to admit that she had changed her story in a couple of ways, she had out and out lied about a couple of things. and so it remains to be seen what the jury will make of her. as you say, on social media this has been a huge issue. people on my twitter page really polarized. some of them feel very strongly that she was victimized almost on cross examination, that the defense attorney was just too tough on her, she's a 19-year-old girl, she suffered a terrible tragedy and she shouldn't have been questioned in the way that she was. others say, look, this is a murder trial, she's got inconsistencies in her testimony. she's treated just the way anybody else was. >> lisa bloom, now let's go back to the stand.

>> -- you can see here mr. martin's body was -- just like i said before. except for what you're showing with your flashlight, everything else is really quite dark. >> right. >> do you know where you were standing at that point? >> i was standing on the sidewalk. >> where you had encountered mr. zimmerman? >> yes. >> basically in the same spot. right? >> yes. >> so from your vantage point where you had taken this picture generally, you sort of turned and took the pictures that we've shown here? >> yes. >> you were up near the "t" intersection. >> yes.

>> your best recollection is that you were at the "t" intersection when you took this picture? >> i was a few feet away from the "t" but i was in that area. >> were you somewhere between the actual "t" intersection and far enough down the sidewalk where you could see mr. martin's body to have taken this picture? >> yes. >> you recognize that the light on the sort of back patio area is from the light of the second unit in from the corner?

>> i couldn't remember whether that's the second or the third unit from the corner. >> it was not, however, directly across from you. >> correct. >> it was somewhat to the left of where your unit was. >> yes.

>> just for orientation in the photo and sort of where you were when it was taken, you see the porch light -- or the lit area in the back. >> yes. >> and you believe that you bel the back of someone's unit, either the second or possibly the third unit? >> yes. >> and then in the lower left corner, there seems to be sort of a dark edge. do you see that? >> yes. >> is that the sidewalk? >> yes. >> so what you're seeing here is the edge of the sidewalk on the left, the illuminated flashlight that's off, and then mr. martin's body. >> yes. >> in between the sidewalk and the back patio area of that residence. >> yes. >> when you say that you saw mr. martin's hands or arms tucked under him, do i understand

correctly that you saw what's in the picture? nothing different than that? >> no. >> so whatever is in the picture is what you saw? >> yes. >> that was a woman that testified earlier this week. is that your wife you talked about? >> yes. >> can i have a minute? i'll clarify something, sorry. when you took this picture, you were basically at the spot where you had encountered mr. zimmerman. >> yes. >> okay. thank you. that's all the questions. >> thank you.

any redirect? >> yes, your honor. you mentioned that you felt -- >> remove the image, please. for exhibit 78. >> i may need it. >> okay. >> you mentioned that when you came into contact with the defendant, mr. zimmerman, that he appeared calm to you. is that correct? >> yes. >> objection, repeating. >> let me rephrase -- >> and it's already been asked and answered in direct. >> okay. well, this is redirect, and i think he's just trying to orient the witness as to his next question, so overruled. >> you recall when you first came into contact, he was calm. is that correct? >> yes. >> objection. i think that's a mischaracterization of this witness' testimony. >> overruled. >> as to whether he was calm. >> okay.

the witness can clarify what his answer is. >> thank you, judge. >> how would you describe mr. zimmerman's demeanor, sir? >> coherent, compliant. he wasn't -- he was calm. you know, he was just basically walking towards me. >> okay. did he have any trouble walking towards you, sir? >> he was staggering a little bit. >> when you say staggering, elaborate what you mean by that. >> basically getting up off the ground. >> okay. >> was he walking like this? >> no, just like -- >> objection, leading among other things. >> overruled. >> was he a wreck, sir? >> at one point, he became a wreck, yes. >> did you have any trouble understanding him when he spoke, mr. zimmerman? >> no.

>> in your conversations with mr. zimmerman d you ask him what kind of caliber of gun he had? >> yes. >> did he respond to you? >> yes. >> what did the defendant say, sir? >> .9 millimeter. >> you were asked by mr. west about the statements the defendant made about shooting the individual, and he asked you whether you agreed that was defending himself. were you out there when this happened? >> i came out after it happened. >> did you see actually what happened, what precipitated this, or did you actually see the shooting where george zimmerman shot trayvon martin in the chest? did you see that? >> no. >> do you have any inkling of how it happened, whether it's self-defense or not?

>> no. >> thank you. no further questions. >> i apologize. do you want this still up? >> no. >> okay. i meant to show it, but that's all right. >> nothing further, thank you. >> may he be excused? >> yes, your honor. >> thank you very much, sir. you are excused. please call your next witness. >> and as they complete that testimony, rejoining me is lisa bloom and kerry sanders from

outside the courthouse. kerry, first to you. could you bring us up to date on the trial so far today? >> reporter: i think it's important for people to understand that in the way a case is presented, first you have the state presenting its case, calling its witnesses to build its case. in this particular case, those witnesses providing evidence to help the state, hopefully in their point of view, show that there was a second-degree murder here, have witnesses that at times on cross-examination appear to be providing information for the defense. we'll let lisa explain how it is that the state chooses to call a witness that not necessarily helps them but may hurt their case, but what you're seeing is a little bit of a back and forth. the jurors are sitting in courtroom hearing this and trying to take it in. that's where it all comes down to credibility. do i believe this person over that person? and what about the conflicts in what the two different people are saying? at one point today, defense

attorney mark o'mara actually walked into the courtroom and got into a position on his knees showing at one point how another witness, john goode, may or may not have seen the way trayvon martin and george zimmerman were in that courtyard area. and this is what john goode said about what he saw. >> i think we're going back to the witness on the stand. >> what was your position? >> investigations. >> all right. and how long were you in investigations? >> six years. >> and your duties as an investigator with the sanford police department? >> general and major crimes. >> do you have any prior law enforcement experience before coming to the sanford police department? >> yes, corrections. >> and how long and where? >> total of six years, five of them in seminole county, one in

lake county. >> let me turn your attention then to it the evening of sunday, february 26th, 2012. were you working at that time? >> yes, sir. >> on that evening, did you sbond respond to the scene of a shooting at the retreat at twin lakes? >> yes, sir. >> were you dispatched to that scene? >> yes, sir. >> what was the nature of the dispatch at first? >> suspicious person in the area. >> do you recall the time of the dispatch? >> just after 7:00 p.m. >> all right. approximately 7:15, 7:00 -- >> correct. >> okay. what area of town were you in when you received the dispatch? >> north end of the city. >> and approximately how long did it take you to get from where you were to the retreat at twin lakes community? >> less than five minutes. >> did you receive any updates to the first dispatch as you were en route? >> yes. >> what was the nature of the dispatch? >> stated that shots had been fired. >> were you the first officer on the scene? >> no, sir. >> who was the first officer?

>> officer tim smith. >> all right. if you would dim the lights, please. officer, let me show you state's exhibit 1. do you recognize that as being an aerial photograph of the retreat at twin lakes? >> yes, sir. >> your honor, may i approach the witness? >> yes, you may. >> i'll give you a laser pointer. just press that. can you show the jury where the main entrance is with your laser pointer? >> right there. >> all right. and that would be off of oregon avenue? >> correct. >> all right. can you show the members of the jury where you went when you got in the neighborhood and where you parked? >> i came this way, came in through the entrance, went around a ways. i believe, if i'm not mistaken, went around as such and parked

right in this area right here. >> all right. and for the record, you parked on the upper right-hand corner of the photograph? >> yes, sir. >> all right. so you actually took the long way around -- >> yes, i wasn't familiar with the area. >> very good. did you see officer smith after you got out of your patrol car? >> yes, i did. >> where did you see him, if you could just indicate approximately the area you saw officer smith. >> that general area right there. >> all right. and for the record, that's in the approximate area of the "t." what was the lighting like back there? >> very dim, very -- almost dark. >> were you using a flashlight to find your way between the town homes? >> yes, sir. >> what were the weather conditions like when you arrived? >> misty, raining on and off. >> and what was officer smith doing when you first arrived? >> he had a white male at gunpoint. >> did you later learn the white male's name to be george