that works with your hand warmth. dan, welcome back. you have a couple of good ones. >> elizabeth writes in, the diaper genie. ask anyone with small kids. >> i'm aware that's another story. >> one more. jeremy comes in, the cure ig coffee beau brewer. >> nice. and vodka. >> nicole. the condom. who can argue with that. i'm not going to argue or comment on that. we have a lot of important news today, including what's going on in arizona. and we're going to start that right now with "morning joe." >> right now, be what we do know is that 19 firefighters were killed in what is probably the worst disaster that's taken place in wildland history here in the state of arizona.

we grieve for the families, we grieve for the department, we grev for the city. >> boy, that's a tough story. it's monday july 1st. with us on set, katty kay, fortune magazine's editor leigh gallagher, jeremy peters, msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nyu former democratic congressman harold ford jr. >> good morning. >> in washington, columnist for "the washington post," david ignatius. 19 out of a 20-member crew from prescott, arizona, killed last evening, late yesterday afternoon, fighting a forest fire. >> we've been watching that heat out there out west and the fires that have been emerging. they must have got caught among the fire. >> these are the folks best trained to handle this. mike, you said it best, just a tragedy. >> they were enveloped in the fire and as a last resort they are trained to dig holes, fox

holes, and cover themselves with fire resistant equipment. obviously that they carry. even that did them no good. 19 out of a 20-member crew. >> let's get the latest. the victims were part of a hot shot crew, a highly trained elite team sent into some of the worst conditions. they were working on a 2,000 acre fire near yarnle, arizona, 18 miles northwest of phoenix. the fire itself started on friday, believed to be sparked by a lightning strike. the weather conditions were said to be unpredictable with fierce winds and dry conditions. none of that helps. according to authorities the crew were trying to pop fire shells, tents designed to keep them safe as a last resort when conditions became catastrophic. 200 of the community's 500 homes have been destroyed. >> families are in terrible shock. the fire departments are like families and so the entire fire department, the entire area, the entire state, is being

devastated by the magnitude of this incident. >> we heard about the fire earlier. we were out there visiting and heard people's valley was on fire. we drove up here right away. got over there. fire trucks everywhere, and smoke. hurried up and went to the house and grabbed what we could. >> we got the dogs. we got the wife. it's gone. the house is on fire when we left. everything was there. but it was on fire. it's gone. >> got the dog and the wife, but everything else is gone ands those 19 firefighters who had been so bravely out there trying to get those constructions around them it seems which is what they were meant to do. that's what you do when you're in bad situations. get the fire resistant shields around you. the fire was moving so fast. 0% contained at the moment.

we'll bring you the news from that. it has been a busy day here in the states right around the world. let's go to other news now and from egypt, amazing zones out of egypt last night. if you were following those. a year after egyptians chose mohamed morsi, hundreds of thousands are protesters are calling for him to resign. the demonstrations have been massive, appearing larger than those one that overthrew hosni mubarak two years ago. they stormed the headquarters of the muslim brotherhood throwing stones and molotov cocktails. the country's ministry of health tells egyptian television 16 people have been killed. more than 700 people have been injured. those were incredible scenes that we saw out of egypt yesterday. >> apparently from reports that we receive overnight, literally millions of people on the

streets in cairo and alexandria. david ignatius, this is almost a year to the day that president morsi was sworn in as president of egypt. pushed there by his muslim brotherhood political party. what is the status, david, of the muslim brother hood, president morsi, an the split, apparently, within that country between the president, the judiciary and the army that is still -- you tell us. >> this has been over the last year a great experiment, i would say, in the ability of muslim brotherhood party, muslim democrats, to govern each effectively and right now you have to say that experiment is failing. morsi's popularity was about 58% when you add in all the versions of positive a year ago. it's down to about 28%. the main opposition group has been gathering signatures for a

pe sitition petition. they claim they have 15 million people signed on that petition. they had some millions in the streets yesterday. my friends in cairo were tweeting me as they may have been tweeting you and the whole world, saying they had never seen anything like this. as you say, the key question in the days i head is what -- ahead is what the army will do. the army, as was the case when president mubarak was under attack two years ago, is going to try to side with the people, that is to say, this is not an army that wants to open fire on egyptian citizens at the request of the government. what that in practice means is that the government is siding with the protesters and isn't going to force them out. we're going to see a lot of turbulence ahead in egypt but right now reading the euphoric dispatches from demonstrators, you get the feeling they feel they have the upper hand. >> jeremy peters. >> hi, david. a quick question for you on the

obama administration here. i wonder what you see them doing, going forward here. because this seems to be just one more example of, you know, the second term that the president had hoped that he would have, these great domestic policy achievements he wanted to implement, immigration reform, gun control, et cetera, colliding with the second administration -- second term that he actually does have. >> well, obama 2.0 meets reality. it's what we're seeing at home and abroad. i think the turbulence in egypt is inevitable and appropriate follow on of their revolution. i peen, you know, they are going to experiment with different governments and it will take a while to get it right. i don't find that distressing to u.s. interests. i found it interesting the new secretary of state, john kerry, has invested so much time and passion, personal commitment, in going back to the obamas's first

goal in the middle east which is a settlement between israelis and palestinians. he appeared to come very close over the weekend to getting the basic deal that will allow negotiations to start which is an understanding about israeli security, if there's a palestinian state, and a reciprocal understanding about what the borders of that state would be. he was very close to having that. so obama's going back at this intractable problems, but the toughest area we'll talk about it later maybe is syria. i still see his policy drifting and a lot of people dying. >> you were getting very poetic in your piece in "the washington post" this morning, writing centuries of theater goers have puzzled why it took shakespeares hamlet so long to act once he set his mind to it. the arab world has the same question about president obama's delay in implementing his policies in syria and elsewhere

in the middle east. the military situation in syria is slipping away as the president ponders. presidents cannot make promises of military assistance and watch their allies be crushed. egypt another example of bootless obama administration policy in the middle east. what is the obama administration's position? you would think, surely, it would remain neutral in the face of broad-based opposition to morsi and the brotherhood, but the administration policy is so unclear that many egyptians think the united states is backing morsi in the face of public rejection and they wonder why. >> i can listen to you read the phone book. >> katty, would you read all of my columns. >> i thought that would just be a little too much too early in the morning. harold ford jr. >> based on katty's comments and your comments and her wonderful reading of it, david, the rewriting of the constitution, economic stagnation, the concerns about political domination by the muslim brotherhood, all the things you suggest in your column,

implicitly, what can administration do to promote those kinds of reverses, meaning helping them to write a better constitution and understanding the economy is so critical, when you have so many young people out of work, living on the equivalent of food stamps in egypt, how can the administration do these things and promote these things? >> harold, i think the single thing that would make the most difference is if the united states said that economic assistance to egypt, be which really is the heart of the matter, this great big, 80, 90 million person country, is going bankrupt, that economic aid should be conditioned not on imposing austerity measures, which what is we were saying last year and was the wrong one, but should be conditioned on outreach, the ability to create a real government of national unity that has all egyptians together. i would love to see the imf say that to egypt, us back it strongly. that's the right course to go. it's obvious looking at the tv pictures how polarized egypt is.

and the position of the united states should be, we're against extremism, we do not want to see extremists profit in situations like this. bring people together and you'll get the kind of assistance we have to give. >> david, quickly before we turn to domestic politics here in this country, what's the median age of egypt? >> you know, it's something well under 25. i would guess it's 18, 19. egypt is a country that just continues its rapid population growth. it's one of the strengths, egypt has a great big domestic market. one reason why the egyptian economy isn't worse than it's been. there's some brilliant young people coming out of egyptian universities. i interviewed them in their start-up lab. if you want to get hopeful about egypt look at the younger generation, not just the passion for freedom but the smart ideas about business and technology, new ways to raise money. >> a third of the population of the middle east is under the age

of 30 with 25% unemployment. it's an opportunity for jobs and growth. >> and an opportunity for strength. >> and an an opportunity for that kind of thing to. >> domestic policy and leigh, i want to get you in on this. republicans may be tipping their hand when it comes to 2016 strategy. the headline in the new york sometimes got paints clinton as old news for presidential election. in the article writer jonathan martin points out that some republicans have hinted that hillary's age and experience in washington, could work against her. she'll be 69 at election time. hear are what some top republicans are saying. romney strategist, she's been around since the '70s. >> last time he won. >> mitch mcconnell, called the democratic field a rerun of the golden girls. people would wouldn't be saying this about men. karl rove, we're at the end of her generation adding the argument for a change in leadership will be compelling.

leigh, i read that piece, it's a real bind that hillary clinton is in. when she ran last time around she got slammed for how she looked, what kind of a woman she was, was she too threatening in some ways. this time around she's been painted as being too old. >> i have a pretty -- my bar for sort of feminism is pretty high and i read this piece and i thought, they wouldn't be saying this if it was a man. and -- >> clearly. >> i don't often jump right there but i really felt that way. and, you know, the other part of this argument is sort of, you know, i don't necessarily want my president to be a fan of jay-z or, you know -- i don't really care if, you know, about that stuff. there's a lot of talk in the piece about how marco rubio is -- everyone is trying to be hip. i don't want that in my president. i don't want my president to be 30 years old. i think this smacks of they're going to attack her for anything. >> what if she turns this around and uses it to her advantage, remember the line ronald reagan the zinger from his debate,

saying i would not hold my opponent's youth and inexperience against him. you don't know how this is going to play out two years from now. >> republicans have been critic critical, wrongly of president obama, saying he lacked a certain level of experience when he came into office. now you have undeniably, nancy pelosi said it best, hillary clinton, if she enters the race which i hope she does and is successful, in the last 50 years you can't point to a presidential candidate or someone who would have won the office with more experience on the foreign policy, and global front. republicans can't have it every which way. these issues are one that the clinton team will have to address and be able to address successfully. >> jonathan martin is a terrific reporter and he's a terrific writer. >> and a good guy too. >> i would submit he had to soak his face in cement from having to stop laughing when he was writing that piece because -- >> probably. >> if you read that piece, you notice a couple things.

there's not a single republican woman mentioned in the piece. >> right. >> there's no reference to their opposition to immigration, to gay marriage, to sort of like what happens on the street of any 21st century city. so if they're going to run against hillary clinton based upon her being as old as she is or from a decade that she was supposedly from, the '60s or '70s or whatever they're going to do, good luck to them. >> i get the optics she may be running up against somebody like marco rubio and you've got an older white woman running against a young cuban guy. it's -- this is something that the republicans would like to see out there. they would like to be able to present themselves as that contrast, they would like to be able to say we're the future. if you go for the clintons you're going back to the '90s. we've had all of that. >> it wasn't bad. >> kind of liked it. >> they're going after her because she's a woman and linking back to age and it's about the way she looks. >> after all the problems --

>> yes. absolutely. after all the problems that the republicans had with women in this last election is this really the question they want to be raising. >> right out of the gate. >> with swing voters. >> jonathan does mention that this old pushing forward of the youth, the hip and the republican party may be more he calls it a symbolic side step more than anything else. it's interesting. >> think about this contrast, we discussed it last week on the show, mike, you've been a part of this, some republican governors advanced job growth issues, their state and local economies moving in the right direction balancing the budgets and so forth, yet still a national chorus of republicans led by those that have not won races in a long time, suggesting the real test for democrats is can they nominate someone who is young and not a woman. ronald reagan was elected at an elevated age. by all accounts did a pretty good job depending where you may sit. i disagree with some of the things, but the country by and

large liked it. to suggest her age is a problem spells out clearly -- >> it's a little desperate. >> you can help amplify this point for me. >> it does. it feels a little desperate, that strategy. >> i think so too. it reminds -- but what it also reminds me, we saw a little bit with the benghazi stuff, when she's run there's been a slight revisionism of hillary clinton, great approval ratings, everybody loved her, she has these strat fearic opinion polls, they are going to go after her every possible way they can. >> benghazi is the perfect segway as we close out this block, a comment from the oracle in washington, d.c. >> should we go to the oracle. >> is the oracle still there? are you still there? >> i am. i don't answer to that name. >> what do you think? >> hillary, jonathan martin's piece, and the republican strategy against her? >> i think the republicans are flailing. if that's the best they can come

up with right now, it shows how empty their kit is. hillary clinton as secretary of state showed just what an active and dynamic personality she is and campaigner she will be. and, you know, if they're going to stick with that oh, she's just too old theme, and don't have anything else, they're going to get hammered. >> i agree. >> it's going to be a good race. >> we don't have anything else, we'll go for her age. >> david ignatius, thanks for joining us from washington. >> thanks guys. >> richard haas will be here, we'll be discussing those protests in egypt, those incredible pictures coming out of cairo, plus from the new republic, frank foer reveals what the magazine calls a second term recovery guide and later director dawn porter discusses her film on the criminal justice system. up next the top stories in the politico playbook. todd santos with a check on the deadly heat out west. we've seen the ravages already. >> just some insane numbers.

when talking about near record temperatures in the southwest this time of year, imagine we're talking extreme even still continuing the next couple days. back towards vegas the 117 would tie again the all-time highest number they've seen in vegas. we had it yesterday. they may be close to it again. notice the fire there in through western arizona that is just let's say to the east of where some of the excessive heat warnings are in place. you're talking for the fire fight, temperatures again around the 109 degree range, could see gusty winds if we manage to fire up thunderstorms later today. 98 degrees in vegas, it is 3:11 in the morning. you get the idea. that's the starting point. northeast, that's one of the areas we could see showers, and thunderstorms. airline wise notice a few southwest of philly, through northern jersey as well. maybe a chance for lightning and a look at at least later this afternoon be ready for pop-up thunderstorms, have an umbrella with you. more "morning joe" coming your way next. "i'm part of an american success story,"

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sight seeing helicopter in new york city made an emergency landing in the hudson river sunday morning. due to a mechanical failure the pilot mike campbell was able to land the plane in the river with minimal impact. within ten minutes of landing campbell and five passengers were rescued by local authorities and taken to safety. none of the victims of the crash were injured. thank god. >> this one did not end so well. in las vegas sun, a female acrobat was killed during a performance of sicirque du sol l soleil's ka in las vegas. she fell at least 50 feet when she slipped free of her safety

wire. original cast member which opened in 2006. it is the first reported death from an on stage accident during the 30-year history of cirque du sole soleil. you watch those shows, it's breathtaking every time. awful. >> yeah. i wouldn't want to think about being in the audience for that one. >> "usa today" with student loan rates expected to double, the adds debt could cause those in their 20s and 30s to put off major life events such as marriage and home ownership. the approximate amount of student loan death held by americans sits at $1.1 trillion with the average outstanding loan balance at $27,547. one in eight college graduates have more than $50,000 in debt. these numbers are only expected to rise, considering a 31% increase in loan borrowers from 2007 to 2012. it's amazing they can't get

together and do something about this. >> it's unbelievable. this could be the single biggest thing that could crush our economy. >> really? >> yes. i mean if you look at the student debt numbers it's unbelievable. it's saddling people with burdens they will never get out of, many of them, and it's -- student debt was the only kind of debt that kept growing and growing through the recession. >> you couple that with wage growth is to the matching the growth of not only student loan debt but what it costs to go to college and it's going to cause two fundamental questions. one as we talk about redistributing wealth as republicans call it or changing entitlement programs, should we ask the shift be made to provide kids with college education. if you take on this debt you would hope to find a good job, not have to postpone marriage and home ownership and the other things with the american dream. i agree with leigh 100%. >> this generation is delaying its launch into adulthood, dem graphers have coined a term,

emerging adulthood, not leaving their homes of their parents, not launching their households and forming their families. it's delayed. >> you served with those in the house of representatives for several years. what do you do now, right now, this moment this week to do something about this situation? >> you have to avoid this doubling of costs and find ways to trim that. not only alleviate that pressure on kids. find ways to stall when the kids have to begin to pay them back immediately. intermediate and long term. we have to create jobs, tax reform, energy revolution, a number of things occurring the government has to be such portativep -- supportive of. you have to alleviate pressure on young kids and young families. these are kids out of school five to ten years trying to scrape and survive. >> keep college costs down. my 19-year-old finished his first year. we looked at colleges in the u.s., $60,000 a year. i ended up segds him to

edinburgh in scotland paying $18,000. >> he's still in college. >> that's unbelievable. it's changing. >> i must say, i graduated from college a long time ago, i won't say how long ago, but two things. i would not be able to get in where i got in when i applied back then, would not get in. so much more competitive. and my family wouldn't be able to pay for it. >> hollow out the middle class. >> okay. here's another one, according to a study by "the new york times," the price of child birth in the u.s. is the costliest in the world. it doesn't necessarily buy better care between 2004 and 2010 costs for giving birth rose 50% compared with other developed nations americans spend more than double to have a child through a conventional delivery but mothers aren't getting more bang for their buck. in france, for instance, new mothers may remain in the hospital for nearly a week to heal, whereas women in the u.s. are typically discharged in a day or two. >> okay. speak to this, $10,000 to have a baby here in the united states

according to that. nearly $10,000. $2600 in great britain. >> yeah. >> it's amazing. >> i had three of my four here and you know what's really even more worrying if you have insurance, you barely know what it costs. you don't think. when you get medical services you don't think how much is my ekg costing, my scan costing. >> flu shot. how much does my flu shot cost. >> no idea. >> no one in the united states ever asks how much a procedure costs in addition to that, oh, you have the new, you know, 3d mri machine, that's the one i want. not the old one, the old machine three years old. i want the new machine. how much does the procedure cost? they never ask. >> i could go and ask my kids for some of that money back. >> you should. >> i should. >> get them on the phone right now. >> forget college. >> three times $7500, that's 22,000 -- >> that's worth having. >> joining us now, thank goodness, so grateful he's here, put the cats in the background,

patrick gavin with the political playbook. how is it going? >> what was that word you used, bindle stiff. >> it's an old english -- >> bring that word back. >> an old english phrase katty gave me. >> never heard it. >> i like it. >> what do you got going? >> i got a bunch of things going. a piece up that talks about sort of the double-edge sword that gerrymandering will present for republicans. if there's an office or census they love redrawing. when you look at the republican party on any issue, fiscal cliff, immigration bill, talk about the farm bill, this clash of priorities between the house republicans who are in very safe districts back at home and then obviously john boehner who has to look at the party on a national stage, it is resulting in these major intraparty warfare for the republicans. look at the 234 house

republicans only four are in districts that tend to lean democratic. and not only that, the average republican district is actually getting more white. you were talking about how the republican party needs to make inroads with women and hispanic groups and these numbers do not bode well. on the national level resulting in this chaotic republican party that could hurt their image nationally. >> patrick, speaking about making inroads with varying groups, anthony weiner here in new york city, who is arguably the frontrunner in the mayor's race is using hillary clinton's e-mail list from her 2008 presidential campaign to support his bid for mayor of new york city. what's the reaction, do you think, within the clinton, i guess, friends of bill and hillary's? >> i mean it's not surprising these politicians sort of swap e-mail lists all the time and free for the purchase, but the weiner/clinton dynamic is going to be really -- you're right.

an nbc 4 poll out this weekend that has anthony weiner up 25 to 20 over christine quinn. as this plays out, one of the things that political junkies like myself will be finding interesting is the clinton/weiner dynamic. we have no indication that the clinton family will help weiner out. but of course anthony weiner's wife is a long-time clinton surrogate and the politics of new york are often intertwined with the clinton family. it will be interesting to see if anthony weiner runs and successful, if the clinton camp will stay far away. the reality is thattant my weiner knows as you see by him purchasing this e-mail list, latching his fortunes on to the clintons is smart politic. >> any plans for you and the cats for july 4th? >> i figured if joe was off the set i might get a break from the cats. >> not from me. >> no. >> i don't think they're going to like the fireworks anyway. >> it's sad, i have two kids

under 2 and our cat has been relegated to cockroach status in our household. i haven't seen him in weeks. >> patrick gavin as always, thanks very much. coming up, the orioles looking to sweeping the yankees last night. with chris davis continuing to provide the power, we may need to get the brooms ready. plus, red sox, old town team, scores walk-off win at fenway park. sports highlights next. wait a sec! i found our colors. we've made a decision. great, let's go get you set up... we need brushes. you should check out our workshops... push your color boundaries while staying well within your budget walls. i want to paint something else. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the the home depot.

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well here's your reward for getting up early. brian shactman, host of the ever popular "way too early" is here with us. >> i think he's being 100% sincere. >> genuinely sincere. >> as sincere as when he said he's going to wear shorts on the set. >> i bet he will. >> now that you said that he will. >> some things we draw the line. >> sparing you from the baltimore orioles highlights katty. >> thank you. >> break them up, by the way, and over the weekend sweeping the new york yankees and the chris davis show continues. >> he goes the other way and he got it!

>> 31 home runs for this guy. they win 4-2. buck showalter beating his former team and sweeping them for the first time since 2005. >> let's have a shout out for dan duquette for putting that together, the general manager of the red sox as you know. >> who signed some of the players that helped them break the streak when they won it 2004. we won't get too much into the red sox unless talking about yesterday's game, taking two of three from toronto, jose batista made it more acute when he tied it at 4-4 in the ninth. this, what do you think of victorino. >> i think he's been a big surprise to me. he can really play. he plays hard, plays every day. sort of like a hockey player in a baseball uniform. gets to it. still plays. one of the nicest guys in major league baseball. >> first baseman booted it. they win 5-4 on the walk-off error. by the way you talked about dan

duquette, a college grad, proudly say that, neil huntington, gm of the pittsburgh pirates, he is now the proud runner of a team that has the most wins in baseball. >> we're about to show, showing it right here, the rain obviously in pittsburgh. arguably visually and strategically the best ballpark in the major leagues. the best of the new ballparks in the major leagues. >> two-hour rain delay. straight to extra innings where the pirates win it. a walk-off hit. gabby sanchez trots home to score 2-1. they have the most wins in major league baseball at 51. how about this guy, great performances, the end of the magical month of pui came to an end in l.a. yesterday. got another four-hit game. the dodgers beat the phillies 6-1. this is his stats for the month, .436 batting arj, 17 home runs, 26 games. >> and by the way he has to play in the all-star game. >> if they don't get him in?

>> he wasn't on the ballot, he came up a month ago, he's got to be there. he is one of the guys fans want to see. >> when he was younger in cuba wasn't considered one of the standout players on their national team. the tour de france, you know the french like their little dogs. >> why would anyone follow the tour de france. >> for this right here? someone let their dog -- maybe that's how they're trying to get attention. let's let little dogs -- >> oh. >> wow. >> watch that again, okay. in the middle of the road, see 60 bikers around the corner at 25, 30 miles an hour and you're like that guy is going to get mauled. >> by the way, his owner didn't get him, but they both got away safely. we probably wouldn't have shown it if 50 bikers had rolled over him. >> no. pe wouldn't be -- >> my wife would have kept going for the dog. she would have gotten hit herself. i'm second in my house. >> what about lance armstrong, talking about -- why doesn't he go away? >> i'm wondering watching the

tour de france, didn't lance armstrong say no one could win the tour de france unless they were doping. which makes you wonder how many of them -- running over that dog -- >> i mean you ever go on a 20-mile bike ride or 10, imagine going on 100. >> ever do spinning. i have to do it -- >> well, i choose not to -- >> spinning? >> yeah. >> you do spinning? >> my wife does spinning, man. it's a tough -- it's tougher than you think. >> always my wife. >> introduce spinning must mean you're doing it. >> i've done it once with my wife. my wife wants me to do these things, i try them. >> spinning, getting yelled at for a half hour. >> it was pretty -- >> i'm doing spinning. >> how about this. >> you might not get up. >> i'm telling you -- >> that was nice to you, introducing you. why do you do this? >> okay. enough spinning. >> okay. >> enough cycling, the must-read opinion pages. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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beautiful shot there of washington, d.c. looking sunny at last. it has rained too much in that city. let's get a look at the must-read opinion pages now. thomas friedman writes in "the new york times" taking it to the streets thanks to the proliferation of smartphones, tablets, twitter, facebook and blogging, aggrieved individuals have much more power to engage in and require their leaders to engage in two-way conversations and they have much greater ability to link up with other who share their views to hold flash protests. the net result is this, au

tocracy less sustainable than ever, look for more people in the streets, more often over more issues with more independent means to tell their stories at ever-louder decibels. leigh? >> he makes interesting points. there's the convergence of many things happening. the social media momentum, obviously, but he also makes a point that the strange middle class is driving a lot of this unrest. even here, with occupy wall street, and all over the globe, and it's just more people fighting for fewer jobs and taking to the streets. and then the other point is that when you put in a new democracy, the notion that those rights that one person is actually taking over more of the power, is a theft of a different order. you think you finally have democracy and when that power is abused, it's almost the revolt is maybe stronger than when there was an authoritarian regime to begin with. >> a question i have about

social media in general, is this availability making our leaders too susceptible to the whims of the electorate. >> that's a fair question. >> and you not only see this with politics but in corporate america, for example, like this brouhaha over netflix when they changed how much it was charging and there was a literal angry virtual lynch mob going after this could be and -- company and i wonder when there's too much out there and leaders are paying too much attention to it. >> i think you're right. the other side is over the past 15 or 20 years given what we do to the media for people even thinking of running for public office, we've lowered the bar for people in public office and they're afraid of their own shadows. that adds to it, twitter and cell phones, adds to their fear. but the old expression, there's strength in numbers, we all know that expression, there's more strength in numbers when you combine it with connectivity. and connectivity gives you

courage. you're not alone when you take the street. >> anonymity gives you courage too. that's what happens a lot on-line. >> what if not giving you those leadership. you can get all these people, we saw this during the arab spring and saw it in turkey, and brazil, get all these people on the streets. how long you can keep them there for we don't know. get them out on the streets but they're not necessarily organized into a coherent movement. all you've done is changed the means of delivering the message to all of these people. >> it would also show, be the contents remains king unless you have some stated objectives and you're going about trying to achieve them. pulling everybody together is the phenomenal first part and incredibly important step. look at the occupy movement, it was a tremendous movement. i don't know all that it accomplished because they vowed they did not want to have an agenda, a leader, not have that hierarchy, it's my hope all of these protests and these demonstrations at the end of the day you have some stated set of goals you want to achieve. >> you know, think about this,

this for the moment in terms of, you know, all this stuff, facebook, twitter, cell phones, all of them arguably within the last 10, 12 years have exploded in terms of their usage, in terms of their popularity, so we are 50 years celebrating this march on washington, martin luther king's "i have a dream" speech and mesmerized -- you were just a kid, harold. >> i wasn't born. >> mesmerized by the numbers of people who showed up in washington along the reflecting pool and the mall, numbers i don't know, what the numbers were, 400, 500 million people. imagine the numbers that would show up today. >> but would they? >> the millions. >> i think they would. they would mobilize much quicker. social media enables masses to mobilize like that. >> we saw masses like that mobilize without social media. i think there's a tendency to overplay the role of social media in a lot of major world events. >> i -- >> your earlier point, jeremy, i

would say you're right maybe sometimes politicians cave too quickly but i would argue the benefits of giving more people more voice outweigh the drawbacks that maybe people will pander in ways -- whether corporate or political if you tweet you don't like your hotel room and suddenly you get an upgrade it applies across all aspects of society. >> do any of you get the feeling -- which i admit i get ten times a day -- other than the news feed on twitter which i think is invaluable, you get news and links to pieces you may have missed reading and stuff like that, five, six years from now, an element of twitter i think people will say we did what? what was that all about? i had a meat loaf sandwich -- >> we will all be thinking we have to rationalize the amount of time we spend on these things. >> five or six years? how about now? >> we need to all get smarter about when we disconnect, how we keep space for being creative and thinking. we don't have it at the moment. it's being sucked away. >> how to interact with one anotherp they're so accustomed

to doing it with one of the devices. the impact it's had on economic growth and the fact that people can communicate au stounding. we don't know how to communicate with one another -- >> the public health costs of the is. look at what a problem texting while driving is and kids are being killed because they can't tear themselves away from their phones. we have developed an entire generation of people, younger people, who don't know what it means to have eye contact with human beings. >> have relationships. >> eye contact. >> we're going to do this during the break. jon peters, jeremy peters. >> yeah. >> thank you. john in my ear speaking to jeremy. thank you very much. coming up jennifer lopez apologizes for singing "happy birthday" for a dictator accused of torture. >> what about apologizing for the awful movie she made. >> saying her people didn't know about it. they should have. news you can't use, coming up next. i think she tried to kill us. [ sighs ]

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all right. time for news you cannot use. her love don't cost a thing, that's a line from her song, but her performances definitely do. and one of those nice paydays turning into a pr nightmare for jennifer lopez, she performed in turkmenistan on saturday, sang happy birthday -- hope she paid

for the rights -- >> why is turkmenistan? >> you can find it on the map. somewhere in the area. >> did you mispronounce something? >> no. the country's leader, she performed in front of him by the way. human rights watch describes his regime as among the most repressive in the world and lopez's publicist tells "usa today" her staff was unaware of the human rights violations. j-lo not the first performer to run into these violations. >> if you google turkmenistan comes up straight away human rights -- >> was her staff unaware of her horrible, horrible movie performances? >> i bet they are. but her staff gets paid. "out of sight" with george clooney was one of the most underrated movies ever. >> great script. >> did you write it? >> no. but it's a great script. >> it's an underrated movie. take a look at some of the people who have performed for libya's late leader moammar gad

fi. beyonce, nelly furtado, 50 cent, mariah carey and usher. >> big points for how you described 50. >> vernacularly correct. >> my street cred from zero to half a point. >> show yours tats. >> my mom needed to know that. i'm ink free. >> can we move on? >> turning -- i can't do this. all right. the hiv foundation in south africa, president obama found an unexpected moment of levity. he met this young man and the young man told him he rapped. the president asked for a sample and the teen was shy at first but after loosening up and stretching it out, he got down to business. ♪ come smile with the boom system to check the game the roof is missing ♪ ♪ gangsters slap new additions that's the spirit ♪ ♪ walls that stop your dreaming head into the goal with

failing ♪ ♪ getting out there is not pimping the real way is through rapping but others try dissing i can't let them keep on hating ♪ >> wait. you got to drop the mike. >> i love that he drops pimping in front of president obama. >> yeah. >> obama handles it. >> he's great in those moments. >> yeah. >> by the way. >> richard haas here to tell us where turkmenistan is. >> right. and then maybe rap. >> there it is. >> coming up next, president of the council on foreign relations richard haas joins the conversation. "morning joe" back with you in just a moment.

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welcome back to "morning joe." katty kay, harold ford jr. and leigh gallagher still with us. joining us the president of the council on foreign relations richard haas, author of "foreign policy begins at home the case for putting america's house in order" and celebrating his tenth anniversary as president -- >> big day for richard haas. ten years. >> good day to have you here. >> we would have had a cake but -- >> he can also, unlike me -- >> joe vetoed the cake on the basis of health. >> yeah. >> yeah, yeah. >> listen, tough news -- >> straight to the news. it is looking bad out of arizona, breaking overnight, fires turning out of control in arizona have left 19

firefighters dead. the single deadliest event for firefighters since september 11th. this is a real disaster and tragedy. the victims were part of a hotshot crew. they're the highly trained elite team sent into some of the worst conditions. they were working on a 2,000 acre fire near yarnell, arizona, about 80 miles northwest of phoenix. so far, the fire is zero percent contained. we will have a live report from the scene in a few minutes. we understand they were trying these teams to put up the tents they use as a form of protection, fire resistant tents and they got caught. we'll bring you more on that, live at the scene in just a moment. even though edward snowden is living in limbo in the transit zone of a moscow airport, he's still making major diplomatic waves. jim me sada has the latest. >> reporter: entering his second week of hiding in this moscow airport's transit zone, edward

snowden's feature seems out of his hands. his plan, apparently, was to fly on to ecuador and seek asylum there. over the weekend ecuadorian leader rafael correa revealed joe biden asked him to reject any american was a fugitive the decision will be made by us in a sovereign manner, he said. first snowden would have to reach ecuador or one of its embassies. with a canceled u.s. passport he's going nowhere. it's up to the russian authorities if he can leave the moscow airport, he added. wikileaks founder and snowden supporters julian assange, himself a refugee in russiaen's ecuadorian embassy lashed out at the u.s. >> by canceling his passport left him at the moment marooned. >> reporter: john mccain fired a volley at russian president vladimir putin. >> he's an old, colonel kgb and

he dreams of the restoration of the russian empire. >> reporter: kremlin watchers say putin is torn. he doesn't want the long-term headache of keeping snowden in russia but extraditing him could create huge problems elsewhere. >> snowden is seen as a guy who at least deserves protection. >> reporter: in snowden's latest bombshell german magazine "der spiegel" reported that the national security agency digitally spied on european officials bugging a main eu building in brussels and triggering a response that the u.s. collects intelligence like every other nation. snowden still unseen in a moscow airport but making his presence known. >> what's your sense of the damage that's been done to the united states, our intelligence gathering operations through snowden's revelations? >> based on everything we've heard from the nsa, it's quite significant. one of those things it's impossible to prove. you've got to run counter histories going forward. but sure, you signaled loud and

clear what it is we do and how we do it. people will change their behavior to make themselves less vulnerable. it's hurt us diplomatically. europeans kind of basically knew that the united states was watching and listening but this makes it explicit and added an awful lot of friction to what's already a fairly difficult relationship. >> i was wondering about the stuff, the idea that he's exposed what america is doing. i mean, don't they know this? didn't the fact that bin laden went off the radar, was so careful about not having any communications with the outside world for three or four years, suggest that terrorists basically know they are being listened to, watched on the internet and not going to go there anyway. >> but it's hard to conduct your life nowadays and not go on it. look what osama bin laden had to do. that is not rep ply kabul or scalable for every person who shall we say opted for a career in terrorism. these guys one way or another have to come up using communications, getting information, and so forth.

not everybody can just work by courier and all that. it's unsustainable at a global level. >> richard, talk about how it's impacted our so delicate relations with china and russia, this whole escapade of the past three weeks or two weeks, and where are the relations damaged more? is it china or russia or, you know -- >> >> china is the more significant relationship and couldn't have come at a worse time. you had the sunniland summit. one of the goals of the united states was regulating the cyber domain front and center. it's a new area of technology, there's no rules or arrangements. china was on the defensive for massive amount of intellectual property theft. we come out and it's made it much more difficult to get where we want to go. with russia not as significant of a country. we didn't have as much of a relationship to begin with. john mccain is on to something. putin is something of a one act pony. plays to politics. this is a guy who oversaw the

end of the soviet union, lost a lot of their territory, this whole schtick to use the technical term is one of resentment and nationalism. but even now putin is a little caught. it's one thing to do it for a day, a week, a month, it's almost like he was playing checkers rather than chess and didn't think through what was going to be the consequences of having mr. snowden come into his territory. >> when did schtick become a technical term? >> ten years ago. >> you were mentioning the -- makes our relationship with china much more difficult. speaking of much, much more difficult, we've seen the in the last 48 hours in the streets of cairo and alexandria and egypt, compounded by what's happening in syria, you have a bizarre of weapons being sold in the middle east, including handheld missiles in syria, but in egypt, especially, what is on the ground right now, the differences between the army in egypt, the courts in egypt and

the existing government in egypt and what potential further danger and damage could it cause us? >> this government has basically tried to consolidate its control over most aspects of egyptian society. the army unsure which way to play it. my guess the army doesn't want to use force, the first time they start using bullets they forfeit their long-term legitimacy and put some of their own privilege at risk. i don't think the army wants to get involved politically. the dynamic is within the muslim brotherhood, do they agree to change, do they unravel? do basically people throw morsi in front of the bus. the other big dynamic that people are missing here, mike, the people in the streets. it's one thing to come out and protest. okay. but what has the opposition in egypt been able to do? one, they can protest, two, boycott political events. can they organize? can they form an enduring political movement that stands for something that can contest an election and if they ever were to do well in an election can they govern?

the opposition in egypt hasn't shown that. there's a difference between being an opposition. we know what they're against. they're against morsi. can they offer a positive force that offers an alternative. that's egypt's problem. there are guys that are governing that can't govern. the army doesn't want to get involved. >> do you have any sense of the status of the army versus the status of morsi in the eye or the minds of the people in the streets? >> much higher. >> for who? >> the army is much higher. only because of what it's not doing. the moment the army gets involved politically, they become like everybody else. that's the army's dilemma. >> is there an alternative that's emerged? you talk about -- we were talking about this disorganizing through social media does not result in a set of clear policies, maybe a set of clear new voices. is there a set of new voices and faces and new forces within this political movement that is -- >> nothing that's really

organized. yesterday i was in aspen speaking at the festival and on a panel with someone who had come from egypt and saying there's a new group. what's it called? she said rebel. i said there's your problem. okay. we're going to rebel and be against these guys but are we organized? do we have a platform? what you have are instincts, tendencies, frenchs. the idea is within the muslim brotherhood. is morsi forced to eat crow and make some changes or has it gone too far? could they put somebody new? if there is a new election, what is the muslim brotherhood represent, who stands for them, what is the opposition? >> if you're sitting in the white house and you're watching those scenes of hundreds of thousands of people who turned out over the weekend, what kind of a challenge, what kind of an opportunity -- is there an opportunity at all for the white house here? i know when the abrab spring initially happened the temptation to think, america should do something, probably the best thing was to do nothing. is there something now that the

white house can do? should be doing? >> we have to do something. one of the posters out on the streets of egypt is the american ambassador with a line through it. the united states has been seen as getting it wrong, almost overly supportive of the muslim brotherhood who did one thing, they got elected. that doesn't give them, if you will, permanent legitimacy. the u.s. has to figure out how to distance themselves from the guys that have governed so badly. the united states should say we want calm, don't want violence, want a government that proves it can govern, supports the eyes of the people. if this government can't do it, figure out a process which a new government will come forward. we will lubricate the future. we will be prepared to provide more aid than ever before, but only if the egyptians make a transition and do so on behalf of principles economically, politically, that enjoy widespread support. more generous, but also more conditional. seems to me we've gotten it wrong. >> a lot of headaches for the president out there in the world and egypt is one of them.

we want to check back on the deadly situation out west, where 19 firefighters were killed while battling a fast-moving wildfire. >> right now, what we do know is that 19 firefighters were killed in what was probably the worst disaster that's taken place in wild land history here in the state of arizona. we grieve for the families, we grieve for the department, we grieve for the city. >> i was sitting in the tavern here and the news shot came on the fire up here in yarnell and i saw my neighbor's house burning and then one of the shots was my house burning. looks like i have to relocate. >> okay. joining us live from prescott, arizona, nbc news correspondent miguel almaguer. what's the latest there from arizona? >> guys, good morning. this is the deadliest wildfire involving firefighters in decades as you mentioned. 19 firefighters were killed. these were all members of a

hotshot team, a group of elite firefighters. fire officials tell us they were overrun by flames on sunday, that all of these firefighters deployed with what they call fire shelters, which are somewhat like thin aluminum blankets that firefighters use to protect themselves in a worse case scenario. fire officials tell us this was a perfect storm for firefighters, that if they were deploying their fire shelters they were facing the worst conditions. they are supposed to protect firefighters from flames and heat. that did not protect them in this scenario. this fire is raging out of control, charred some 2,000 acres, more than 200 homes have been destroyed. hundreds of people are still evacuated at this hour. the governor has called this a dark day for arizona. the president has called the victims heros. certainly a very sad and emotional day here in arizona as firefighters at this hour do continue the fire fight, guys. >> miguel, you say the fire is still raging out of control.

how big an area is the fire encompassing right now and what's the threat, for instance, where you are. how far are you from the fire and are there any implicit warnings to be ready to move at any moment? >> we are being capped for our safety dozens of miles away from where this fire is burning. it has charred some 2,000 acres. that's not typically a huge size fire, but the conditions here are right for this fire to spread and obviously it's already ripped through a residential neighborhood. at least three subdivisions have been evacuated in this area. the conditions again are right for fire because they are drought-like conditions. we are dealing with triple-digit heat and later on today we are expecting gusty winds. that's really bad news for firefighters. keep in mind, they are bringing in more firefighters from across this state to help battle this fire. some 400 firefighters will be on the front lines. their hearts will certainly be heavy thinking of the 19 men they have lost early yesterday. >> harold ford. >> you answered a part of my

question, miguel. they are going to be able to bring in additional firefighters from around the state and i would imagine from other states as well. do they believe they have enough on the ground even with the additional forces that obviously will reinforce the numbers they have? >> federal officials are now being involved. that means federal assistance will come in from washington, d.c., as well as crews who fight fires across the country. they always send in more resources that are needed at the beginning. at this point fire officials are probably welcoming all the help they can get. there's only so much they can do gaining containment around this fire. they certainly have hundreds of crews on the ground now. more are on the way. fire officials are bringing in more help to attack this blaze from all aspects and sides. more assistance is arriving here by the hour, guys? >> wow. >> miguel almaguer, thanks very much. boy, that's a terrible story. >> imagine that tiny town, we saw the picture of yarnell, tiny town and you lose 19 of your

firefighters. >> it's hard to look at this footage and not think back, you know, different disaster, different everything, but, you know, it strikes tones of hurricane sandy and then of moore, oklahoma. i mean these terrible disasters. i'm not necessarily putting the pieces together, but it's so evocative of that terrible -- >> it seems like the technology of fire fighting, i know nothing about it, but it hasn't evolved as much as it could or should have. it's so tragic. >> it has in cities. >> it has. >> you know, big cities, new york, chicago, boston. obviously in big cities. but i mean how can you -- again, such a powerful statement about mother nature. i mean, there was nothing they could do. 19 -- 19 of a 20-member team. >> elite force. >> yeah. >> they're people that know what they're doing. >> in a second, given the accelerant, the wind. >> they're the best trained. >> we'll be watching that story all day. coming up next, the new republic calls it a second-term recovery

guide for president obama. editor frank foer is here with the latest issue. plus nbc's chuck todd joins us live from africa unless, of course, that is a green screen and not the ocean behind him. he's looking happy so we reckon he's right there by the ocean. first here's meteorologist todd santos with the latest weather. >> thanks so much. the fire fighting crews dealing with extreme heat around the yarnell hill fire, they will be dealing with temperatures around 109, 110. could see gusty winds if they manage to fire up thunderstorms by later in the afternoon. the heat itself one of the bigger issues. to the west of the area, we have excessive heat warnings, areas in orange, vegas, right now temperatures in the 90s. even at this early hour of the morning. could again be hitting an all-time high record, 97 right now there. that's the temperature outside at the moment. so again, up, the only way to go. into the northeast we have a few showers, some thunderstorms around the philly area. could see more coverage by later on in the afternoon. could slow things down from new york to boston to d.c. and the

southeast as well with a chance for some of the showers and storms. there's a look at the forecast with temperatures in the 80s. we'll take a look into the next couple days. actually a quick look outside at new york city, the low-hanging clouds across the area. bring an umbrella for this afternoon so you don't get caught out there. more "morning joe" coming your way next. "i'm part of an american success story," "that starts with one of the world's most advanced distribution systems," "and one of the most efficient trucking networks," "with safe, experienced drivers." "we work directly with manufacturers," "eliminating costly markups," "and buy directly from local farmers in every region of the country." "when you see our low prices, remember the wheels turning behind the scenes, delivering for millions of americans, everyday. "dedication: that's the real walmart"

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less than 50 years later, an african-american president might address an integrated audience at south africa's oldest university and that this same university would have conferred an honorary degree to a president nelson mandela. would have seen it possible. >> president obama continuing his tour of africa today. joining us live from tanzania,

nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown" chuck todd. chuck, i'm insanely jealous. how do you get the best gig? >> good trip? >> it's, you know, one of those long hours, incredible countries to visit and meet. that part of it is never enough sleep. the clip that was played, i want to give some context to what the president was referring to. he was quoting bobby kennedy, bobby kennedy gave a speech at the university of capetown in that same room that president obama delivered that speech in yesterday, on june 6th, 1966 at the time. it was the exact same day what he was referencing there that james meredith was killed in mississippi. it was hauntingly enough, two years before bobby kennedy

himself was assassinated. he was referring, mandela had been just imprisoned and that was the next quote after the president went through all of that historical context of the moment. it was the whole point of that speech was to try to motivate those students to say you know what, change does happen. although you think it's never going to happen and all of a sudden it happens in the bat of an eye. what's interesting here in tanzania, there are two u.s. presidents in this country today and tomorrow. president bush, laura bush, are going to be here opening a health clinic for girls, focused on the issue of a widening crisis here having to do with cervical cancer and mrs. obama, the first lady, was already planning to be at the event with laura bush. there's always been a question can they logistically figure it out and get the current and former presidents together at some point and all indication is some point in the next 24 hours that's going to happen. >> a lot of symbolism in south

africa. there's president obama on robben island standing in the cell nelson mandela spent so many years in and going to tanzania where he may meet president bush as well. i'm sorry, you shouldn't stand with a backdrop like that behind you. we have so little sympathy. >> one thing you should do, as a public service for you, we want point out given the time difference between where you are, pui went 4 for 5 and your dodgers beat the phillies. okay. >> buddy, not only that, the last place dodgers just four games back, the nationals are on a roll, so my son is fired up about that. suddenly the all-star break, you know, it's suddenly baseball's fun again in the todd household. we're excited. >> have a great time in tanzania. thanks very much. >> all right. >> joining us the editor of "the new republic," frank foer. the magazine's cover says "snap

out of it, mr. president" and offers a second-term recovery guide for the white house. is it already time for a second term recovery guide? >> sadly it is. a rough couple months for the guy. as the shot you showed on the screen, he's got 1,285 days from the date on our cover until the end of the obama presidency and as we know, that's precious little time to get anything done when you throw in midterm elections and the like. given that he seemed so stymied and so bereft of ideas about where to go next we felt like it was incumbent upon us to humbly suggest a few things that he might be able to do in order to get his juju back. >> like what? >> we offered some of them range from the big things like our legal affairs editor jeff rosen suggested pragmatic ways he could reform the national security state to accomplish the goals he seems committed to but also to stay true to the civil

libertarian instincts he also professes although not always, so genuinely to be true to. in foreign policy, jamie rubin, assistant secretary of state, has three pragmatic things for him to do, having a summit with the new iranian president, working with the jordanians to stem the humanitarian disaster overflowing from the border with syria, but some of them go to much more micro proposals. for instance, the panama canal, you may not know, mike barnicle -- >> i helped build it. >> you would know it is now out of commission which is a huge opportunity for various ports across the american south. unfortunately these ports in places like charleston and other places across the south, aren't equipped to take up the traffic and the opportunity that this closing of the panama canal zone would represent. various republican senators who have an appetite for investing in infrastructure.

barack obama also has an appetite for investing in infrastructure, economic stimulus, so this is one place where there's a possibility for some creative dealmaking. >> so you -- sorry. >> go ahead. >> you also say one of your tips is embrace the irs scandal. what do you mean by that exactly? >> so, the irs scandal has created this sense -- even though it's a scandal that's dissipating by the day, it produced this wave of populace outrage at the irs. now, you could just let that wave of populous outrage wash over you or try to leverage it to reform the tax code which is something that republicans deeply want to do and it's something that democrats want to do as well. now you may not be able to go for the whole shebang of tax reform but there's part of the corporate tax code you could reform in a revenue neutral way that would be good from the standpoint of republicans and democrats. >> the 200 pound gorilla is

entitlements. this president has done virtually nothing to change the looming entitlement crisis. why doesn't he tackle something big on medicare? >> you know, i think that he's -- from his perspective, i think that he -- right now he is hoording political capital for some sort of deal. that type of big dealmaking is something that has eluded him. i'm not sure it's the place for him to go right now, especially given the way that house republicans are entraj gent and he's had difficult working something like even immigration reform, which is very, very clearly in their interests. >> you know, if what richard said, entitlements, is the 800 pound gorilla, there is probably -- >> you know some other gorillas? >> probably a 1600 pound gorilla in this political room we're talking about and it is, i think, not embellishing anything to say that it's a fact that you have a certain percentage of

people in both the house and the senate. >> yes. >> who fail to recognize the fact that he is the president of the united states. what does he do about that? >> well, he has to act like he's president of the united states. and i think unfortunately there are large stretches of this presidency where he just -- he allows himself, for reasons that are strategic and perhaps character logical, to fade to the back of the room. when it comes to an issue like immigration reform, the man holds a tremendous number of cards. it is -- even though he has an extreme policy interest in seeing this happen, the political interests of the republican party and having immigration reform happen is much, much greater. and, you know, i think he should play tough every now and again and remind people that he's president of the united states. >> we've spoken a lot on this show about the president lacking leadership, seeming to lose his way, not pressing his policies

enough. if he gets -- if we get to the end of obama's second term and he did health care in his first term and does immigration reform in his second term. >> if. >> immigration reform looks like it has a fairly good chance. it has a reasonable chance. >> a chance. >> a chance. won't people look back and say actually those were fairly big accomplishments for the president? that's two pretty major pieces of legislation to be remembered for? >> i'm not saying that it's been an inconsequential presidency. i would add to that climate change. if he's able to get at least part of what he wants to have >> a bigger if. >> he holds in executive power the ability to create a different political environment for the climate change issue and to get some significant, if not comprehensive, things done. if you add all that up, it's not a terrible presidency. but, you know, we've reached this period where there's still a significant time left in his

administration and once you get past immigration reform -- >> not inconsequential. would you say it's consequential to have made him successful? >> have you gotten this in the president's hands? can you get your playbook in the president's hands. >> he has a copy of it on the plane. sitting on a beach in tanzania. >> what do you think about one aspect that frank mentioned about the obama presidency, the president himself, not being as assertive as many people hoped he would be in terms of the president of the united states giving a speech to this country in the wake of all the snowden, nsa revelations and everything like that, about listen, the world is still a dangerous place. i want to tell you what's going on. why hasn't he done that? >> did a little bit of the speech about six weeks now, which i thought was one of the better speeches of his presidency. he tried in some ways to educate the american people a little bit. he has to come back to that, to

again say the world is dangerous place and we have to do certain things. let's grow up. it's a part of a larger issue. one of the advantages of a president is his ability to use the oval office as a classroom, to make certain issues front and center one of the things the president has it to do, whether he reads "the new republic or not is say what am i going to try to do and begin to create a context toward it, prepare the american people and the political context for what is going to be one or two or three at most lasting things. peace in the middle east like john kerry seems to be focusing on. something on the national security state? is it going to be something on entitlements or trade? he has it to decide. he's only got a limited amount of political capital, only a limited window. sooner rather than later he has to decide what are going to be his one or two principle priorities and begin to shape the political environment so he has a chance for getting them. otherwise, this is just going to be basically lost and very quickly he's going to become lame duck and that's going to be his problem. >> the latest issue of "the new

republic" hits newsstands today. frank foer thanks for coming in. snap out of it, it's called. up next wendy davis has another fight on her hands. the latest challenge in the texas legislature and she better have her running shoes ready. those are selling like hotcakes. "morning joe" back in a moment. wi drive a ford fusion. who is healthier, you or your car? i would say my car. probably the car. cause as you get older you start breaking down. i love my car. i want to take care of it. i have a bad wheel - i must say. my car is running quite well. keep your car healthy with the works. $29.95 or less after $10 mail-in rebate at your participating ford dealer. so you gotta take care of yourself?

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texas lawmakers will begin another 30-day special session later today and take up among other issues the state's controversial abortion bill. it is the same bill that produced last week's headline grabbing filibuster by democratic state senator wendy davis. the filibuster which lasted more than 11 hours has kickstarted a national debate on the issue as well as more personal battle between davis and governor rick perry. yesterday, davis spoke about the upcoming special session. >> what they now have to confront is that the eyes of texas, the eyes of the country, are watching and they are going

to be held accountable for the decisions that they make in this process and if people continue to see that their voices are being ignored i think we're going to see a long-term sustained response to that in the state of texas. politicians are using this issue to boost their own political aspirations, their own political ambitions, and bullying women and their liberties, their personal constitutionally guaranteed liberties in the process. >> wendy davis speaking this weekend. she was making the point it's not just about the timing of abortionings and what's legal and not legal, what concerned her more is the fact that she said texas is proposing to close so many abortion clinics. in the end it becomes a financial issue. >> this is a class issue. if you are wealthy enough and living in texas and you are in the position where you need to get an abortion, you are going to be able to travel outside the state to do so. if you're poor you're not going to have that option before you and that's what she's trying to

say. >> that's a point that doesn't often come up but at the root of these issues. this is a women's health issue. you're right, abortions after 20 weeks are very, very rare. she made the point on friday on the show that it's actually those -- when it gets to that situation, it's usually the most wanted pregnancies because there's been some unforeseen complication that no one wants. so it's not, you know, it's a little bit different from the rest of the debate. it's women's health, financial. absolutely. >> harold, what happens in texas now? all this attention on wendy davis -- >> apparently the governor indicated he's going to call them back starting today or tomorrow for another session, so it will be curious to see if senator davis takes the same position and follows the same strategy and whether or not she enjoys bigger support. i think there's a part of the bill i find interesting and inclined to be supportive of in light of what happened in pennsylvania with the abortion doctor where they're asking for higher standards for these

doctors and encouraging they have some surgical qualifications and credentials and these doctors have visiting privileges. they probably got to make sure these hospitals don't deny them that because they are doctors performing abortions. i think there's some redeeming aspects. the thing i like most about senator davis, something missing in politics tax is a reasonable debate. elevated the debate to a high level talking about policy and for governor perry and republicans in texas just to try to ram her over and to run her over by -- with procedure i think will hurt them in the end game. they should lay out from a substantive standpoint why she may be wrong and try to find compromise. appears they will have another special session and see what happens. >> i have never known anyone in favor of abortion. >> right. >> you know. anyone. >> no. >> and wendy davis, i think, to your point, harold, has taken this issue which is so volatile and raised it to a level that is

understandable to everyone and unlike many people, a lot of people, not all people, on the right, she's using the issue effectively, i think, in terms of being able to comprehend what the issue is, rather than using it for purely political scratch a sore kind of reaction to this issue. so keep going, wendy. on friday, in our discussion on the supreme court's decision to strike down a portion of the voting rights act, harold mistakenly said it was pennsylvania's attorney general who said pennsylvania's voter i.d. law would allow mitt romney to win the state. the person who made that remark was actually state representative michael tursy and we apologize fors the error. and i know -- >> in the heat of discussion. absolutely nothing but a mistake on my part and i apologize for it. doesn't take away interest t-- from the discussion around vote rights. some may disagree the south has

advanced where we are don't need certain aspects of the voting law. joe made a bigger point, every state should have to ask for preclearance when they make changes to anything that may infringe on anyone's right to vote irrespective of race. >> dawn porter describes the inspiration behind her hbo documentary on the plight of public defenders. we'll be right back with more here on "morning joe." out there owning it.

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poor and you can't make the bond, you don't get out. so you sit and you sit and you sit. you may have lost your house, your kids may be needing sustenance. you may have been taken out of high school. all the things that could happen if you were summarily plucked from your life, you have so much tremendous pressure to plead guilty. it's all about lessening the penalty. >> that was a scene from the upcoming documentary "gideon's promise" joining us the film's director and producer dawn porter. i've seen that clip play out numerous times in courtrooms and the idea, public defenders representing indigent people arrested and the cutbacks in

various state budgets for public defense and the amount of money that a public defender makes is so minimal compared to what you can make in the private practice of law, tell us about the documentary and how that weaves into it. >> yeah. you know, in most states the public defender funding system is set state by state, so it's usually a very small percentage of a state budget. one of the public defenders says the easiest thing to cut the budget for is indigent people accused of crimes. if you get the combination of not having a lot of funding and having a lot of people being brought into the system, it's really a recipe for disaster and that's what you see in the movie. >> maybe the second easiest thing to cut as we saw a couple weeks ago are things like food stamps. you're poor, under arrest -- >> or health care. >> yeah. but i mean, the number of people who appear in court charged with whatever they're charged with and many of them are guilty, there's -- we can't get around

that -- but nearly all of them are poor. >> right. 80% of people who are going through the criminal justice system are represented by public defenders. that tells you something. you only get a public defender if you're poor. america, we arrest 12 million people a year and that's an fbi statistic, it's actually closer to 13 million people a year. millions of cases are coming into the criminal justice system and being represented by public defenders. they are getting staggering case loads and they can't keep up. >> so many questions that come out of this, but the first and foremost, is there anything that's going to change, the dynamic, because it doesn't seem like there would be any catalyst? >> i think actually you folks are changing the conversation. having the conversation. i actually have a lot of faith in america and i think that we're a country that believes in fairness and i think what's happening is unfair. i think also there's a financial pressure. as you're pointing out, we simply can't afford to just lock people up, to arrest them

indiscriminately and lock people up. there's a lot of pressure happening on each of the states to change the system. >> dawn, you make the point that most people charged with felonies plead guilty. that has to include in innocent people. why is that? why is pleading guilty the easier option in so many of these cases? >> this was actually the thing that was the most shocking to me. i was a lawyer coming out of private practice. i didn't have any experience whatsoever with criminal law. and i saw over and over, you know, people make rationale decisions. if you're arrested and facing -- in georgia, where i was filming or alabama or mississippi where i was filming, the minimal mandatory sentence for a crime, for armed robbery, is ten years. so if you're facing ten years and you can get life in georgia for armed robbery regardless of the amount you're charged with stealing, life in prison, so if someone offers you a deal for three or four years, that's a pretty good deal and you'll take it, whether or not you committed the crime. >> and don't people trust the public defenders to be able to

defend them properly? i mean i can see that you'd think right, i'm going to take the three or four years in prison because it's less than ten years, but it's still three or four years in prison and if you feel you have a chance with a good public defender being able to get off, wouldn't you go through the system? >> let me try to answer that before we get to someone who can really answer it, if you're 19 and you're under arrest and someone offers you three instead of ten, you think i'm 19, i'll be 22, i'll take the three. >> especially when you can get life. it's up to a judge. the other thing, let's be honest, not a lot -- i followed a group called gideon's promise and they're training people working in the deep south and i was blown away by them. young people get a bad rap these days. self-indull get, self-involved. these are young, talented lawyers. the one i followed are

african-americans and they're going back, coming from poor communities, going back and helping people in their communities who are facing these -- we all have friends who are lawyers and a lot of them wanted to do this kind of work and maybe did it for a time and said i can't. i've got to start a family, i need to make money and what have you. if they're cutting funding across the board, these people, some of them make less than teachers, correct? >> yeah. absolutely. i mean it's a perfect analogy. teachers or doctors who are working in rural areas

and often prison for the rest of your life. it's a really serious situation. >> thank you very much for doing this amazing documentary. gideon's army premieres tonight at 9:00 p.m. on hbo. thanks very much for coming. as we go to break, we just want to check in on the live pictures coming in from tanzania. president obama has a full day of events in the country. nice place to land on a monday morning. msnbc will have continuing coverage of the president's visit throughout the day, of course. you're watching "morning joe."

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we want to share this story with you from the morning papers. this is in the "new york daily news." there are accusations of an incredible rescue of a young factory worker in bangladesh last may was a hoax. the young woman made headlines

worldwide when she was pulled from the rubble 17 days after the building collapsed around her. now a former co-worker said the woman escaped from the disaster the same day the structure came down. according to the report she was hospitalized for two days and disappear and show up in the arms of rescuers a week later. >> that story has more holes in it than is alleged to have happened to the girl. how does she go back to such a congested area filled with rescue workers, cover herself in rubble, and then get rescued again. how does that happen? >> i don't know the details of it. i'll say, though, the story has changed her life. she works at a five-star hotel, has had a seven-fold increase in her monthly take-home pay. someone pointed out her clothes looked pretty clean. >> we're sending brian to bangladesh today to investigate. >> i am the senior bangladeshi

correspondent. >> i'm sorry, that's terrible. >> brian shactman will be back from bangladesh tomorrow. the gop's plan to weaken hillary's expected run in 2016. is her age fair game. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪ as your life changes, fidelity is there for your personal economy, helping you readjust along the way, refocus as careers change and kids head off to college, and revisit your investments as retirement gets closer. wherever you are today, fidelity's guidance can help you fine-tune your personal economy. start today with a free one-on-one review of your retirement plan. we do a ton of research projects on angie's list.home... at angie's list, you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare written by people just like you.

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killed in what is probably the worst disaster that has taken place in wildland history here in arizona. we grieve for the families, we grieve for the department, we grieve for the city. >> good morning. 8:00 a.m. on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast as you take a live look at new york city. in washington, david ignatius. 19 out of a 20-member crew in prescott, arizona, killed last evening, or late yesterday afternoon fighting a forest fire. >> we've been watching that heat out there out west. they must have just got caught, mike, in the fires there. >> these are the folks best trained to handle this. i think mike said it best, it was just a tragedy. >> they were enveloped in the fire. they had been trained to dig

foxholes and cover themselves with fire-resistant equipment. even that did them no good. 19 out of a 20-member crew. >> let's get the latest. the victims were part of a hot-shot crew, highly trained elite team sent into some of the worst conditions. they were working on a 2,000-acre fire about 18 miles northwest of phoenix. the fire itself started on friday. it was believed to be sparked by a lightning strike. the weather conditions were said to be unpredictable. according to authorities, the crew were trying to pop fire shells, essential ll lly tents designed to keep them safe, when conditions became catastrophic. 200 of the 500 homes have been destroyed in the community. >> the families are in terrible shock. fire departments are like families, and so the entire fire department, the entire area, the entire state is being devastated by the magnitude of this

incident. >> we heard about the fire earlier in surprise. we were out there visiting, and heard the people's valley was on fire. so we drove up here right away. there were fire trucks everywhere, fire and smoke. couldn't see anything. so just hurried went to the house and grabbed what we could. >> we got the dogs. we got the wife. it's gone. thousands on fire when we left. everything was there. but it was on fire. so it's gone. >> we got the dog and we got the wife, but everything else is gone. and the 19 firefighters trying to get the constructions around them. that's what you do in really bad situations. you try to get the shields up around you, but the fire was moving so fast. that fire 0% contained. we'll bring you all the news from that. but it has been a very busy day.

let's go to other news now, and from egypt, amazing scenes out of egypt last night. and for those of you following those protests out there, just a year after egyptians had chosen mohamed morsi as their democratically elected president. hundreds of thousands of protesters are now calling for him to resign. appearing even larger than the ones who overthrew be mubarak hosni a year ago. the ministry of health tells egyptian television that 16 people have been killed from yesterday's protests. more than 700 people have been injured. those were incredible scenes that we saw out of egypt yesterday. >> apparently from reports that we received overnight, literally millions of people on the streets in cairo, and

alexandria. david ignatius, this is almost a year to the day that president morsi was sworn in as president of egypt. pushed there by his muslim brotherhood political party. what is the status, david, of the muslim brotherhood, president morsi, and the split apparently in that country between the president, the judiciary, and the army that is still -- well, you tell us. >> this has been over the last year a great experiment, i would say, in the ability of muslim brotherhood party, muslim democrats they say, to govern effectively. right now you would say that experiment is failing. morsi's popularity was about 58% when you add in all the different versions of positive. it's now down to about 28%. the main opposition group has been gathering signatures for a

petition. they had 15 million people sign on that petition. they certainly had some millions in the streets yesterday. my friends in cairo were tweeting me as they may have been tweeting you and the whole world saying they had never seen anything like this. as you say, the key question in the days ahead is what the army will do. the initial signs are that the army, as was the case when president mubarak was under attack a few years ago, is going to side with the people. that is to say, this is not an army that wants to open fire on egyptian citizens at the request of the government. what that in practice means is that the government is siding with the protesters and isn't going to force them out at the dictates of morsi. so i think we're going to see a lot of turbulence ahead in egypt. but right now, reading the dispatches from demonstrators, you get the feeling that they feel they have the upper hand. >> jeremy peters? >> hi, david. a quick question for you on the obama administration's role

here. i wonder if what you see, them going forward here, because this seems to be one more example of the second term that the president had hoped that he would have, these great domestic policy achievements that he wanted to implement, immigration reform, gun control, et cetera, colliding with the second administration -- or second term that he actually does have? >> well, obama 2.0 meets reality. that's what we're seeing at home and abroad. i think the turbulence in egypt is an inevitable and appropriate follow-on of their revolution. they're going to experiment with different governments and it will take a while to get it right. i don't find that terribly distressing to the u.s. interests. i found it very interesting that the new secretary of state, john kerry, has invested so much time and passion, personal commitment in going back to the obama's first goal in the middle east, which was a supplement when

israelis and palestinians. he has appeared to come very close over the weekend to getting the basic deal that will allow negotiations to start. which is an understanding about israeli security, as a palestinian state, and understanding about what the borders between the countries mean. he was very close to having that. so obama's going back and to the intractable problems. the toughest area is syria. i see his policy drifting and a lot of people dying. >> david, you were getting poetic in your piece in the "washington post" this morning. writing centuries of theatergoers of why it took shakespeare's hamlet so long to acted once he set his mind to it. the world has the same question about president obama's delay in

implementing his policies in syria and elsewhere in the middle east. egypt is another puzzling example of bootless obama administration policy in the middle east. what is the obama administration's position? you would think surely it would remain neutral in the face of broad-based opposition to morsi and the brotherhood. but the administration policy is so unclear that many egyptians think the united states is backing morsi in the face of public rejection, and they wonder why. >> i could listen to you read the phone book. >> i would read hamlet, but i thought that might be a little too much so early in the morning. >> based on the comments and the wonderful reading of it, rewriting of the constitution, economic stagnation, the concerns about political domination, muslim brotherhood, all that you stugt in your column, implicitly, what can the

administration do to promote those kinds of reverses, meaning helping to write a better constitution and understanding the economy is so critical. we have so many young people out of work, so many people living on the equivalent of food stamps in egypt. how do they promote these things? >> the single thing that would make the most difference is if the united states said that economic assistance to egypt which is really the heart of the matter is this big 80 million, 90 million country is going bankrupt, that that economic age should be conditioned not on imposing austerity measures, which is the wrong line, but should be conditioned on outreach, on the ability to create a real government of national unity that has all egyptians together. i would love to see the imf say that to egypt, and see us back strongly. i think that's the right course to go. it's obvious looking at these tv pictures how polarized egypt is.

it should be we're against extremism, and not see them profit in situations like this. bring people together and get the kind of assistance we have to give. >> david, quickly before we turn to domestic politics in this country, what's the median age in egypt? >> you know, it's something under -- well under 25. i'd guess it's 18, 19. egypt is a country that just continues its rapid population growth. it's one of the strengths. egypt has a great big domestic market. that's one reason the egyptian economy is not even worse than it's been. there are some brilliant people coming out of egyptian universities. i've interviewed them in their startup labs. look at the younger generation not just as passion for freedom, but the smart ideas it has about business and technology. >> a third of the population in the middle east is under the age of 30. >> yeah. >> with 25% unemployment.

it's an opportunity for jobs and growth. >> and an opportunity for strength. >> let's move on to domestic policy. lee, i want to get you in on this one, too. republicans may be tipping their hand when it comes to 2016 strategy. the headline in "the new york times," gop paints clinton as old news for presidential election. jonathan martin points out that some republicans have hinted that hillary's age and experience in washington could work against her. she'll be 69 at election time. here are what some top republicans are saying. romney strategist, she's been around since the '70s. >> last time he won. >> rich mcconnell called the democratic field a rerun of "the golden girls." people wouldn't be saying this about men. karl rove said of clinton, we're at the end of her generation, adding that the argument for change in leadership will be compelling. lee, i read that piece.

it's a real bind that hillary clinton is in. when she ran last time around, she got slammed for how she looked, what kind of a woman she was, was she too threatening in some ways. this time around, she's going to be painted as being too old. >> my bar for feminism is pretty high. i read this piece and thought, they wouldn't be saying this if it was a man. it takes a lot for me to say that. i don't often jump right there. but i really felt that way. and, you know, the other part of this argument is sort of, i don't necessarily want my president to be a fan of jay-z, or, you know, i don't really care about that stuff. there's a lot of talk in the piece about how marco rubio -- everybody's trying to be hip. i don't want that in my president. and i don't want my president to be 30 years old. i think this smacks of they're going to attack her for anything. >> what if she turns this around and use it to her advantage. remember that line of ronald reagan, the zinger from his debate saying i will not hold my

opponent's youth and inexperience against him. you don't know how these things are going to play out two years from now. >> i think republicans have been critical of president obama that he lacked experience when he came into office. and i think nancy pelosi said it best, hillary clinton, if she enters the race, which i hope she does and is successful, i think in the last 50 years you can't point to a presidential candidate with more experience on the foreign policy, global front, and domestic front. however, having said all that, i think these issues are the ones the clinton team will have to think they'll address successf >> jonathan martin is a terrific reporter, and a great guy. i would say he had to soak his face in cement to stop from laughing after writing that piece. because if you read that piece, you notice a couple of things. there's not a single republican

woman mentioned in the piece. >> right. >> there's no referoence their opposition to immigration, to gay marriage, to sort of like what happens on the street of any 21st century city. so if they're going to run against hillary clinton based upon her being as old as she is, or from a decade that she was supposedly from, the '60s or '70s, good luck to them. >> i get the optics that she may be running against something like marco rubio. and you've got an older white woman running against a young cuban guy. and in is something that the republicans would like to see out there. they would like to be able to present themselves as that contrast. they would like to say, we are the future. if you go for the clintons, you're just going back to the '90s, we've had all of tt. i don't like the way they're going off because she's a woman and linking it to age and how she looks. >> absolutely. and after all the problems that

the republicans had with women in this last election, is this really the question that they want to be raising with swing voters. still ahead, dr. hollywood, pediatrician turned producer joins forces with steven spielberg on a new show 19 years after they teamed up on e.r. wow. up next, nbc's lisa bloom with the latest from the george zimmerman trial in florida. but first, here's todd. with a check on the forecast. >> all right, mike, thanks so much. wanted to keep a close eye on the situation for the fire fight in the hill fire. still dealing with areas just west where there are excessive heat warnings in place. keep in mind, vegas, if we hit the 117, that would tie the all-time high record in phoenix. forecasting a record high. the fire itself, that area dealing with light winds today, could see a shower. they could deal with gustier

winds. vegas, just after 5:00 in the morning, just under 90 degrees. notice the one cluster of thunderstorms through northwest jersey. that could make its way in towards the northwest side of the tri-state. enough to maybe slow things down in the skies. otherwise, we're dealing with a chance for thunderstorms across the east coast into the afternoon. the low cloud ceilings. this is manhattan right now. laguardia an hour and a half delays. philly coming in just over two hours. more "morning joe" on your way next. ♪

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week two of george zimmerman's second-degree murder trial continues this morning. lisa bloom, thank you very much for coming in. what are we looking for this week? >> this week i expect to see law enforcement witnesses, especially the lead investigator on the case who initially thought zimmerman should be prosecuted for manslaughter. he wasn't for another 44 days. maybe the martin family members testifying. we'll see what unfolds. >> let's pretend we're doing, like, the nbc's sunday night in america nfl game, reviewing the first half. let's review last week. what happened last week that was potentially critical, hurtful to the defense, or helpful to the prosecution? >> well, i think it was a tough week for the prosecution. but this is a real trial, and it's a circumstantial case. so each witness only presents a certain piece of the puzzle. there's no slam-dunk witness for the prosecution. they're putting on all of the neighbors who heard something, who saw something and hoping to

bring it all together in closing argument. but i have to say, the defense turned many of the prosecution witnesses to their favor. and there was one in particular who said that trayvon martin was on top, george zimmerman was on the bottom, that trayvon martin was assaulting him, mma style, mixed martial arts style, and zimmerman was asking for help just minutes before the gun went off. >> how many days this week? >> four days, not the fourth of july. >> he's managed to turn things around, you think the defense team has done a better job -- really, the opening statement -- >> the knock-knock joke was terrible. he even agrees with that because he came back and apologized for it. i watched almost every single moment of this trial. i think it's probably long forgotten by the jury. they're really in the thick of moment-by-moment what happened in this fight, how did it come to pass that george zimmerman pulled the trigger and took the

life of this unarmed teenager. i think they're probably more focused on that at this point. >> circumstantial as opposed to like dna evidence, stuff like that, circumstantial is going to be the critical component of this trial? >> dna evidence can be part of circumstantial. circumstantial just means there isn't one witness who said, i saw everything, let me tell you what happened. it's just little pieces of evidence put together. that's normally what it is in a murder trial. dna i think will be very important, because zimmerman said trayvon martin put his hand over his nose and mouth. and they're going to ask, why isn't there any blood on his cuffs or under his fingernails. >> what about the chain of evidence that's collected and gathered by the initial responders, the police, emts who first responded? how much of a pivotal point would that be? >> that's important. the crime scene technician has already testified about how some of it is collected.

i expect to hear more witnesses to talk about what they found, and the significance of it. one of the problems the prosecution has is that they didn't do any chemical testing at the site for blood, it's called luminol testing. they didn't do that, and it was a rainy night and some of the blood on the sidewalk, if it was ever there, may have been washed away and is now gone forever. >> i've not been following it, nearly as close as you have. i watch the headlines and all. fundamentally to me it seems like one of the questions is who started the fight between the two of them. because i guess from my understanding, just reading articles and watching it on tv, is that you have the right to defend yourself. was that established this week? was there a better sense of who may have started it? i know you said even if you start, you can defend yourself in the middle of a fight. >> who started the fight, that is a big point in the case. i think it's pretty clear from the evidence that george zimmerman was following trayvon martin. the defense even conceded that in their opening. he's on the call with the police, are you following him?

he says, yeah. they say, we don't need you to do that. nevertheless, he appears to continue to follow trayvon martin. trayvon martin is on the phone with his friend, rachel gentel. and he said to her, someone's following me, this creepy man, i'm cleaning up her language, and she said that the last words trayvon martin said to her were, get off, get off. that implies george zimmerman is the aggressor. but the defense got her to concede that she didn't say that in her first statements. that she added that in later. will the jury believe that? >> that's contradicted to the other witness who said it was -- the other one was on top. it seems like it's a he said/she said. the big recreation pieced together. what has surprised you the most? what is the most surprising thing that you've seen throughout this trial so far? >> i would say how much the defense has been able to turn most of the prosecution witnesses in their favor to

elicit pretty strong evidence for the defense. and i think for a lot of people, on social media, i've gotten a lot of response on my twitter page, people feel strongly about this case, about referendum, and justice. it's a criminal trial. i'm used to assessing the evidence, is it strong or weak from one side to the other. 2 million people signed a petition for this prosecution to happen. we all felt so strongly that this young man was racially profiled. he ended up dead and he wasn't doing anything wrong. what a great injustice that was. but when you watch the evidence in this indication, it's very different than what i think we heard about beforehand. zimmerman does have witnesses to say that he was screaming for his life, begging for help. the prosecution has the burden of proof. can they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he wasn't acting in self-defense. that's a hard burden to meet. >> what's the timeline of the

events that evening? trayvon martin is in a variety store buying something. what's the timeline between when he purchases the items, whatever he purchased, and the time that he is shot to death? and what's the distance between where he bought the item and where he was shot? >> it's about 45 minutes, he's at the 7-eleven buying skittles and a drink. he and zimmerman have their encounter about 7:15 p.m. it happens very quickly. here is how it goes, and i've seen other cases where there's a scuffle, where one witness said this one's on top, and that one's on top. and probably because it's a fast-moving situation. it happened very quickly. there's a gun pulled and there's no question george zimmerman shot him once and killed him. >> how much longer do we reckon or this trial? >> two or three weeks.

>> all about the evidence. up next, from steven spielberg to stephen king, what it's like working with two creative masterminds. melts in your mouth. it was delicious. tonight you are eating walmart steak. what???!! good steak. two thumbs up? look, i ate all of mine. it matches any good steakhouse if not better. walmart choice premium steak in the black package. it's 100% money back guaranteed. try it for your next backyard barbecue.

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i dedicated my life to pediatric medicine, and cared for dozens of dying kids, kids in agony. i couldn't even imagine that ricky abbott was going to die in a month, a week, or a day, in hours. and nothing i did, or could have done was going to change that. sometimes it's impossible to save a kid's life. and the only thing we can do is save them from suffering. >> well, that was george clooney, obviously, as dr. doug russ in "er." one of the show's producers, also a hit behind special victims unit, a gifted man in his latest project "under the dome."

doctor, you have an incredible personal story that is more incredible than the things on tv. you go to medical school, you become a show runner, a tv producer. how does that happen? >> luck. or growing up with john wells, who was the executive producer "er." he had hired me before that, we grew up together in denver, colorado, and he hired me on my first show "china beach." then i left to go to medical school and he sent me the script for "er" in 1994. steven spielberg bought it, and it was put in the trunk literally for 25 years. someone found it, pulled it out and said, hey, this would make a good show. and steven said, yeah, let's do it. so they produced it, and sent me the script. i read it and said, it's like my life, only we don't use glass i.v. bottles anymore, can i be

involved. >> you're at harvard medical school? >> i was at harvard medical school. >> what did your mom say? mom, i'm going to write for tv. >> i didn't actually go to medical school, i went back and forth to "er." and during hi atuses, i would finish medical school and go back to the regular show during the season. for seven years i was in school finishing and did my residency for about seven years to become a pediatrician. >> wow. where were you a resident? >> at children's hospital in los angeles. >> what did you do, up the freeway, over the hill in the san fernando valley and then back to the pediatric unit? >> literally, i was making a pilot for warner brothers, i would go to venice beach at 8:00 in the morning. but before that, i had been at county usc looking at newborns from 4:00 to 7:00, then i would

go to "er" in burbank. and my son said, 11 the -- at the time, he said, you finally finished. and i thought, i better take time off. >> did you have any ethical issues with what you were bringing to the show to what you just left in the pediatric unit, or usc medical center? did you have any issues there? >> no, i always changed and disguised the patients, so that they would never be identifiable. because i was really concerned about that. so really, i drew on what the substance of the story was, or how i was inspired by them. but never making it a direct link to any patient i ever took care of. the one time i was doing a rotation at ucla's emergency room, while "er" had just started, and i was sewing up a kid's leg, he had been in an accident playing baseball, and people were like, oh, noah wiley could do this better than you.

and i said, yeah, he could. because they practiced much more on chicken parts than i did. i wanted to say, you're right, but i just kept my mouth shut and kept sewing. >> you talked about spielberg on "er" and that whole process. now "under the dome" is stephen king. talk about the new project and how faithful it is to the book and give us nuances on that. >> i was really excited to work with steven spielberg again, because his company got the rights to the book. i reminded steven that i had pitched him 19 years ago when we were pitching "er," now we're pitching "under the dome" to him and how we're going to do it. and we use stephen king's book as the diving board for this series. the book itself takes place over a short period of time. our show, we hope, will expand over many years. it's a 13-episode, what we call limited series. not a mini series. it's a series that we hope will be on every summer. and we certainly are drawing on

the characters, and the format that stephen king created. and that's a great -- >> tell people about this story. it's a fascinating story line. >> in the book, it takes place in maine. but for us we can't shoot in maine because we're shooting in the winter, so we have to shoot in north carolina. it's in smalltown, usa, specifically locked under an invisible dome. no one can get in, no one can get out, so they have to deal with dwindling resources. what's going to happen when gasoline runs out, what's going to happen when there's not enough run, or they run out of insulin. >> how did this come to be? or do we have to wait to find out? >> you'll have to wait. how the dome came about? >> how the dome came to be. >> i can't tell you that. >> that's at the end? >> exactly. >> neal, this is getting incredibly annoying. you're down in north carolina. you're a pediatrician, went to harvard medical school, had a

hit series on tv. now you're working with one of the most prolific american writers, turning that into another hit series, and you do a documentary when you're down in north carolina that wins -- what award did it win and what it's about? >> it's called, if you build it, and it won the hilton sundance sustainability award. it's passion about sustainability. it's a documentary that was filmed in the poorest county in north carolina where a young designer who wrote a book "design revolutions" went and taught high school juniors, designed thinking. which is really an interesting approach where you use sociology, anthropology, math, science, to solve problems. these kids who were juniors solved the problem of their community, one of obesity, lack of access to fresh fruits and vegetables and unemployment in windsor, north carolina. they built a spectacular farmers market for their community, which has created new jobs. >> did you find out about them

when you with are in north carolina filming "under the dome"? >> no, i met emily a couple of years ago through a conference. i saw her talk and read her book. because of facebook, which is like the best way to meet people you admire, i facebooked her and said, i want to meet you. after i met her, i went up to san francisco, she told me she was going to start teaching in north carolina, and i thought, this would be a great documentary. so we're now on the festival circuit and we're going to be in washington, d.c. >> do you ever worry about your kids trying to compete in lifetime achievements with you? this is terrible for them. we've wasted our lives. >> no, no. i'm just really lucky that i get to be a storyteller. i have one son, and he's in college. and he's a really terrific photographer. i am a terrific tennis player and golfer. i've never played tennis or golf and i can't take a picture. >> when do you have time for golf? >> well, that's true. but it's great. because he has his own passions.

we just respect each other. >> you've already had a tremendous career. just incredible. the new show is "under the dome" adapted from a stephen king novel. neal baer, thanks so much. we'll be right back. (girl) what does that say?

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basically keep in mind, for anyone who's talking about a second half rebound, and that includes the fed for the u.s. economy, that rebound has to start right now. we're going to get a couple of gauges today and this week. it's a huge week as the first week of the month is always for data. it will be capped on friday with the jobs report. we have an all-american jobs report. fireworks not just on the 4th this week, but we have several manufacturing gauges. we already learned that manufacturing was weaker in china overnight. the european survey picked up a little bit. and a couple of other things that are happening today. these include the student loan rate hike that we've been talking about for quite some time, that's actually happening. they can still try to fix it. group-on watching this thing called a reserve service that it hopes will give discounts at higher restaurants in ten cities. and california ups its gas tax, highest in the nation. a lot of people will be hitting the road this week.

>> lee gal lager here. in the past couple of weeks, many people think a little overdone. is that still roiling the market this week? >> we heard so much from the fed last week, it seemed as though every other governor or federal reserve president was out trying to talk about how on the one hand you had some saying, we're not going to be pushed around by markets. you have other saying markets are miss interpreting them. by the end of the week there wasn't necessarily a lot more clarity, but i think if you look at what's happening in markets today, they're digesting the fact that the taper is out there but it doesn't necessarily mean imminent disaster. and so much will depend on the data. that's why this week is so important. as that unemployment rate goes, so go the fed's plans. >> hey, kelly, let me see if i can artfully phrase this question without alienating most of the people that you see throughout the course of the day.

but am i safe in assuming that the people on wall street, the people who make their lives in the stock market, will be geared much more to reacting to what happens with chinese manufacturing today, than to thousands of college students who might be imprisoned economically by having the student loan rates doubled? >> you're absolutely right. i would say that part of it, joe, is the fact that this doubling hasn't actually happened yet. this is for new stafford borrowers. these loans could be retractably fixed if the congress can get their act together. it's one that will hurt a generation of people over a longer period of time. unfortunately than the six-month period of economic activity that the stock market is taken into account. the size of china, probably still bigger than the size of the number of u.s. students who are going to be underwater because of the amount of debt that they hold. >> kelly, i won't divulge it in public, but you're younger than everyone at this table. how are your friends dealing with student loans?

i'm in my early 40s now, and i have friends who are still paying off school. i paid 8.25% back in the day, so 6% and change doesn't seem like much. >> this will be important to watch the labor force statistics. a lot of them went back to school and took on more debt because they were worried about their job market prospects. a lot went to law school. a lot went to medical school. what i worry about, and they do as well, is the groups not in the statistics the last couple of years, making those look better. what happens when they start to flow through and the law firms and hospitals and what have you aren't paying the way these people were hoping. it's a huge, huge area of concern. >> looking out of the hollowing out of the middle american class. that's a huge big part of it. kelly evans, thank you. >> do you think i should go back to school?

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time for news you cannot use. her love don't cost a thing, a line from her song, of course, but her performances definitely do. one of those nice pay days turning a nightmare for jennifer lopez. she sang happy birthday, hope she paid for the rights -- >> where is that? >> i don't know, somewhere in that area. >> turkmenistan, the leader, she performed in front of him. his regime was described as the most repressive in the world. and lopez's publicist told "usa today" her staff was unaware of the human rights violation. j. lo not the first one to run into these type of situations. >> if you google turkmenistan, it pretty much comes up human rights -- >> was her staff also unaware of

her horrible, horrible movie performances? >> i bet they are. but her staff gets paid. although, "out of sight" with george clooney is one of the most underrated movies. >> it's a great script. >> did you write it? >> no, no. but it's a great script. >> it's an underrated movie. take a look at some of the people who performed for libya's late leader moammar gadhafi. they got huge paychecks. you got to go fitty, i can't go fifty. >> sho off your tats. can we move on? president obama found an unexpected moment of levity.

he met this young man, and the young man told him he rapped. the president asked for a sample, and after stretching it out, he got down to business. >> come and smile with the boomer system to the woofer missing and got it in for, that's the spirit. heading to the goal with zaning. getting out there is not -- the real way is through rapping. but other msters. [ applause ] get more summer for your money at walmart's super summer savings event.

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and walmart's super summer savings event is here. this 5-piece dining set on clearance, save over $49! how bout all these bikes on rollback? like this mongoose adult bike, you save over $20! get more summer for your money at walmart's super summer savings event. can we get a quick shot right now of the control room, what we've had to put up with today? look at that. >> t.j., tower -- >> those are the only two names you can remember. >> this is like summer camp. >> what have you learned today? >> in all seriousness, we show the images of the firefighters and play light of the images. but the death of 19 first responders is incredible. >> if i had to do this again, i don't know if i would be able to get an education. >> and richard thinks that's a

big problem in the middle east and a problem for the white house, too. the demonstrations are going to continue. >> i wear a tie, get dressed up, and still get no respect from you. thank you very much. now it's time for the daily rundown with mr. peter alexander. >> peter? gentlemen, thank you. good morning from washington. it is monday, july 1st, 2013. this is the daily rundown. i'm peter alexander in today for chuck todd who is traveling with the president in tanzania. on your screen right now, we're looking live at the courtroom in florida where george zimmerman's second-degree murder trial scheduled to start literally at this moment. we have already heard from more than a dozen witnesses out of a potential 200 potential witnesses. prosecutors have called, i think the exact number is about two dozen so far. today the lead detective who in