and coming up next, the reverend al sharpton with "politicsnation." thanks, joy, and thanks to you for tuning. in tonight's lead, george zimmerman in his own words. for the first time in his second-degree murder trial, george zimmerman's account of shooting trayvon martin was played for the jury. prosecutors today questioned two investigators who interviewed mr. zimmerman in the hours and days following the shooting. and they played those interviews in court. the prosecution also played mr. zimmerman's walk-through of the crime scene the morning after the shooting, trying to highlight some apparent inconsistencies in his account. at one point today, jurors watched how police question mr. zimmerman about his version of events. >> i don't know how this is going to go at this point.

what he was doing when he came to your car, he probably wouldn't be here right now. did that ever register to you at all. >> i guess that i answer to his family right now. >> yes, sir. >> why didn't it occur to you -- i mean, a lot of what we do in law enforcement is basically without talking and a lot of casual encounters, intentional encounters we call them. we might be trying to detect something. but did it ever oh can curr to you to actually ask this person what he was doing out there? >> no, sir. >> was there fear, precaution, safety, all of the above? >> i didn't want to confront him. and it wasn't my job. >> did you at that time ever say to him i'm neighborhood watch? >> no. >> did it not occur to you? >> no. i don't have a problem. and i started backing away from him. >> be you kind of did have a problem. that's why you were following him, right? you had a concern with him. >> i was scared.

>> but you were scared to tell him you were neighborhood watch? you were afraid to tell him that? >> yes, ma'am. >> i'm not trying to put you on the spot, but these are the questions we're going to ask. it seemed like the perfect opportunity to say, look, i'm neighborhood watch. i don't recognize you. are you staying here? >> george zimmerman says he was scared that night, even though he was the one armed with a gun. he has plead not guilty and claims he shot trayvon martin in self-defense. joining me now is former prosecutor faith jenkins, msnbc legal analyst lisa bloom, former prosecutor marcia clark, and criminal defense attorney john burris. thank you all for being here. faith, this was the first time jurors heard what george zimmerman told the police about that night. your reaction. >> the prosecutor in order to get a conviction in this case, they have to show that george zimmerman is a liar. they have to show that he made

certain inconsistencies in his statements because he knew that he did something wrong and he was trying to cover it up. some of the inconsistencies that came out today are huge that contradiction that you just played in that tape, i was scared, you knew you had a gun. you knew you were armed. you knew you had a bullet in the chamber of your gun. you were in your car. you got out of your car. you follow and pursued trayvon. those are not the actions of a scared individual. these are the facts that the prosecution has to focus on, contradictions like that. >> and that some of the police was skeptical about his story, lisa. >> yes. >> that came through. >> chris serino. i mean, after a week of watching all the prosecution witnesses get grilled on cross-examination, it's kind of nice to see george zimmerman have to answer some hard questions, even though he is not on the stand yet. he may never be on the stand. but his story that he and trayvon martin interacted, whoever approaches who, and he says do you have a problem? no, i don't have a problem. and then trayvon martin says you

do now and just punches him in the face is inherently not credible. it doesn't make any sense. it's hard to believe. and when you put it together with the way that george zimmerman was talking about trayvon martin that night to police officers, it seems a lot more likely that he said something pretty offensive, over the line, or that he was the one that threw the first blow. and i think that's what these detectives are zeroing in on. >> marcia clark, your reaction. >> i had a very similar reaction to lisa. as i was listening to his account and i read through all of the transcripts and i watched the footage. i just don't buy it. it just didn't feel logical to me. he knows he is armed, obviously, and he knows very well that he could win any fight that gets started because he has the gun. he stands out, oh, i was afraid, and i stood there and then he jumped out at me. he is also, reverend, there is a minute and 27-gap in which he claims what happened where he can't account for it. he can't explain what he was doing out there. he is standing in the rain and suddenly gets jumped there is very little that he describes

happening leading up to the encounter that i buy just from a logical standpoint. apart from the consistent sis which are important and there. >> john? >> and to play devil's advocate on this point, he doesn't know if trayvon martin is armed or not. he could be afraid. when you really think about it, he doesn't really know. that's true. all the inconsistencies everyone has said, it will all be something the prosecution will have a chance to deal with. but at the end of the day there is no direct evidence that is going to contradict what george zimmerman is going to say. i don't know if i consider this that great of a windfall for the prosecution. it's because they've had so few victories during the last week and a half, today was actually a good day for them. but i don't think it necessarily overruled a lot of what george zimmerman has had to say. >> when you look at the interview played to the jury, investigators question some parts of zimmerman's story like why he needed to keep following trayvon martin. watch this.

>> i think three. >> okay. and you're part of the homeowners association. are you head of the neighborhood watch? >> yes, sir. >> okay. once again, something else i got to try to explain away. how do you not know the streets? you've been living there three years. how do you explain that. how do i explain that one way that street was one of the three streets that you go through? >> i have a bad memory. >> there is only three streets that he did know the name of the street. but he remembers everything else. does that help or hurt? >> well, it hurts tremendously, because it shows he is not being truthful. and, again, that's what the prosecution has to show in this case there are only three streets. this is also an area where he walks his dog, and he is neighborhood watch. he knows this area like the back of his hand. so he didn't want to look bad and say he followed trayvon.

so he said i went to look for a street sign, when actually he was following trayvon. he has all the motive and the state of mind to want to follow trayvon and confront him. trayvon doesn't have that. he has a 12-year-old waiting for him back at home waiting for his skittles. >> now, lisa, you also hear where at one point he said that the dispatcher told him to follow him. and there is nowhere on the record where the dispatcher told him to do that. >> right. in fact, the dispatcher, as we all know, said we don't need you to do that. and in another statement, george zimmerman says three times that he knows he was told not to follow. i think this lie about the street sign is one of the most important lies. you know, maybe he is just mistaken about whether there were bushes or not. maybe we can just let that one go by. but the central issue about why he followed trayvon martin is addressed here when he says, well, i didn't remember the name of the street, so i had to go look for the street sign. that sounds like an intentional

lie that he made up to excuse the fact that he went looking for trayvon martin. >> marcia, how important is that as far as you are concerned if you're prosecuting this case? >> oh, i'm leaning very heavily on all of these points that lisa and faith have made. they are very important points. let me point out something in addition that i would definitely highlight for jury. this is the man studying the law. he was studying criminal justice. he was studying the law. he knows as the police brought out. so you know the law of homicide. you know what is justified. you know what is not justifiable. and he said yes. and that means that this is something who knows how to craft the correct story to appear to have been justified in what he did. and he had to come up with a good excuse for getting out of that car. and so he came up with the story about the street sign, which i agree. and then at some point in the tape also, he says i have add, so i don't remember things well. i'm sorry, but this is a place where you lived for three years, you walk your dog, you know these streets. i'm not buying that. i'm also not buying this, i have to say. he was sitting in his car with the lights on, the engine

running, and he claimed that trayvon is staring him down and that trayvon makes a big white circle and is about to approach him in his suv? who would do that? all he has to do is gun the engine to run trayvon down. the story doesn't hold together if you look at it for one second. it's not as dramatic an impact as the witnesses last week, but this kind of circumstantial evidence, inconsistent statements, when you put it all together, and the jury is required to do that, not parse pieces out, but look at the entire picture, it is extremely compelling. >> john, your response to that. you were the devil's advocate before. >> yeah, i'm still the devil's advocate, although i do think that mr. zimmerman had more issues to deal with. but at the grand scheme of thing, if you're the defense lawyer here, what you don't want to do is put mr. zimmerman on the stand for all the reasons i think everyone has said over all the various programs. i don't know that the evidence is coming in so far is strong enough that it would justify putting him on. and i will tell you at the end,

and when serino made that last statement, that he thought he was telling the truth and the statements around that, those will have dramatic impact on the juries. anything else that had been done at the end of the day, this very suspicious homicide detective who is then said i thought he was telling the truth. and that to me override as lot of the areas that appear to be inconsistent. a jury will have to wade through that. i'm not convince head was telling the truth about it. but if i'm the defense lawyer, i'm saying -- >> well, john, john, john, let's be fair here. serino can't say that i thought he was lying because then the whole world will say then why did you guys not arrest him. and people have to get a special prosecutor. serino is not saving george, he is saving himself. for him to have said he thought he was lying would then say that they were wrong not to press charges, which they did. >> well, he always had the view that he should have been prosecuted. i'm only saying as a matter of a -- >> he can't visit both ways. if he thought he was telling the truth, why would he want him

prosecuted? >> if he thought he was telling the truth, you're right, maybe he shouldn't have been prosecuting. but at the same time he could also say i thought he was telling the truth, but i also thought this was a voluntary manslaughter type case and not a second-degree murder case. >> you know what? this is a criminal trial. this is the time to tell the truth. i'm sorry. it appears to me that detective serino did think he should be prosecuted. he is now working the midnight shift, by the way, not a detective anymore. supposedly of his own choice. this would be the time. >> i agree. but faith, let me ask you this question. because this is what i think there is one thing that lisa says and john that is very true. that i think a lot of people, my colleagues in the media is missing. this is a murder 2 trial. you have a young man, george zimmerman charged with murder 2. who had a gun who we learned friday when everybody thought was so bad was studying martial arts three times a week. you're telling me you are a watchman that was training in

martial arts, knew you had a gun, and you couldn't do anything but shoot to kill this guy? a 17-year-old kid can come and hit you two or three times and the only thing you can do is try to kill them? what happened to your martial arts training? what happened to your preparation? you don't think the prosecution might bring this up in summation? >> well, of course. but apparently he maybe wasn't a good martial arts student. i don't know how well he was doing in the class. apparently not very well because he said he had to use the gun to defend himself. but that's going to be the ultimate question here. his claim of self-defense and the story he tells is literally too perfect. this is someone who knows how to craft facts. this is what the prosecution is going to argue to make a great self-defense claim. because just in case you did not believe i was fearful for my life, he adds trayvon martin told me you're going to die tonight. it's like something out of a movie. >> but lisa, when we look at the lead investigator chris serino, he also said george zimmerman's injuries were not that significant. look at this.

>> you had an issue of whether or not his rendition of getting hit dozens of times were supported by the forensic evidence of his injuries, correct? >> in my view, yes. they were lacking. >> would you agree that there were numerous different bruisings and injuries on both sides of his scalp first? >> there were injuries. however, based on the way i would view them as a major crime scenes investigator who has seen injuries a lot worse than that, i didn't consider them life threat engine. >> so he doesn't have life-threatening injuries. he doesn't say on the tapes that he thought he had life threatening injuries. so you have an unarmed, young man here who was not committing a crime. the prosecutor's got to argue that there were no injuries, he

never told us he thought he had those kind of injuries. the only thing he refers to is he claims that trayvon said you're going to die. but he never said he thought he was going to die. all this builds up in argument for why they with murder 2, wouldn't it? >> you have to believe, if you believe zimmerman's story, that trayvon martin threatened his life and his hand was reaching down for the gun. that's his story, which if you believe the prosecution, is a very convenient story, because nobody heard it other than george zimmerman, nobody could see that hand reaching down. and you bring up a very important legal issue. every time somebody is in a fight, you can not pull out a gun and shoot and kill someone. so even if you are getting hit, even if you are on the ground in a scuffle, even if somebody says some words you don't like, you cannot take out a gun and shoot unless you are in imminent, means great fear of immediate injury or death. >> let's take a break, legal panel, please stay with me.

we have more to talk about. ahead, more on the crucial piece of evidence. mr. zimmerman's walk-through with police the morning after the killing. why it reveals apparent inconsistencies in his other accounts. much more on the compelling testimony from the sanford police investigator who questioned zimmerman the night of the tragedy. plus, how might the jury react to hearing mr. zimmerman talk about, quote, these guys in an interview played in court today. and remember, friend or foe, i want to know. send me your e-mails. reply al is coming. stay with us. i want to make things more secure. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there.

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prosecutors today went after the inconsistencies in george zimmerman's account of the night he shot trayvon martin. we'll see the tape, next.

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today at the george zimmerman trial, the prosecution tried to highlight some apparent inconsistencies. in his various accounts of what happened on the night of trayvon martin's death, for example, this morning the jury heard zimmerman's first interview with police from the night of the shooting. where he says trayvon martin suddenly jumped out at him from the bushes. >> so i was walking back through to where my car was and he jumped out from the bushes. and he said what the [ bleep ] problem homie. >> from what you guess, he is

somewhere hiding in the busheses when he jumps out? >> yes. >> okay. >> trayvon martin jumped out at him from the bushes. mr. zimmerman seems pretty sure on that point. he says it several times. but when he led police in a walk-through on the scene the very next day, there are few bushes to be seen. and mr. zimmerman is no longer sure where trayvon martin was. >> i was walking back to my truck, and then when i got to right about here, he yelled from behind me and to the side of me, he said, yo, you got a problem. i turned around and said no, i don't have a problem, man. >> where was he at? >> he was about there, but he was walking towards me. >> coming this direction here? >> yes, sir. like i said, i was already past that, so i didn't see exactly where he came from. but he was about where you were. >> first, george zimmerman says

trayvon martin was hiding in the bushes. the next day mr. zimmerman says he didn't see exactly where he came from. back with me now, faith jenkins, lisa bloom, marcia clark, and john burris. marcia, how much of this kind of inconsistency undermines zimmerman's version of events? >> oh, boy, this really does, i have to say, it really does there was another one as well where he was talking about how at first he said he saw trayvon martin running. and then suddenly he was walking leisurely. and that kind of thing is very important too. because what he saw of trayvon martin's behavior is very important to explain the motive for him to pursue trayvon martin to make the call to begin with, as a matter of fact. and i want to point out something else there is a huge inconsistency also in his description. he says trayvon martin of the actual attack, trayvon martin straddles him and then repeatedly pounds his head into the ground, and repeatedly throws blows into his face. but the injuries are not consistent with that there is --

there are lacerations, a couple of small ones on the back of zimmerman's head. but those are consistent with someone who gets knocked down, hits their head. it's not consistent with someone who is getting pounded repeatedly into the ground. and i'm sorry, but the injury to the nose is not consistent with someone raining blows down on him, which was described by zimmerman as well as by the witness. in addition, zimmerman says, claims that trayvon martin's holding him down, and then holding his nose in his mouth at some point. but he is able to peel trayvon martin's hand away, and free his other hand to pull out the gun that doesn't sound like overpowered. plus, one more thing, reverend, one more thing i got to say this. is a semiautomatic. this means that the safety has to have been off at the time he pulls the trigger. he pulled the safety off. you know, he is the one who through that safety off. why did he do that? that's inconsistent. >> john, how does he do all of that in this short amount of time, pummelled, had his head banged, martin goes for the gun, and he has time he can unlock

the safety and shoot. how can you do that all within a matter of minutes? >> it doesn't make any sense in terms of a description that we had not only from the other witnesses and from himself. and along with the inconsistency to the level of beating. i think this along with the fact that he claims he was confronted, when you put that against the testimony general tele, you have the question who have is tpursuer. if you don't believe he was the person doing the following as opposed to being the confronting person, then you have real questions believing in the testimony around the beating. then you have to take what the independent witnesses say. what the independent witnesses give you is a fight. they don't give the kind of fight he has described. so he does have some real issues there's. it's going to be for the jury to kind of decide those points. certainly the inconsistencies on the major issues for me, jumping out, running, chasing, it doesn't help this cause at all. >> can i pick up on the rachel

general telepoint? we can start putting together some of the evidence we have heard so far. we know she was talking on the phone with trayvon martin. they're talking about is the all-star game on tonight, which in fact it was. and there are a couple of teenagers talking for hours and hours all day, sometimes the call dropped. they pick it up again. he has gone to get an arizona fruit drink and a skittle. that's trayvon martin's frame of mind. to say he jumped out of the bushes and assaulted george zimmerman really does not fit with at that at all there is no evidence. >> go ahead. >> hard. >> i would say for somebody who is being racially profiled, to say that they jumped out of the bushes is a little bit consistent with that. you think about where his mind-set. >> and also, he is making that statement because he wants the police to believe i was caught completely by surprise. he jumped out of the bushes. i was sucker punched. i have no responsibility in this whatsoever. trayvon was absolutely the initial aggressor. to me, this is one of the most

significant inconsistencies and lies because when they meet, when they meet, that is the one crucial moment. and if he is lying about that, if he is inconsistent about that, there is a reason why. >> but there is also here where you have in the first interview with police on the night of the shooting, zimmerman claims the dispatcher told him, i raised this last segment, that he should find trayvon. watch this. >> right in there. and they said what direction did he go? and i said i don't know. i can't see him. can you get to somewhere where you can see him? yeah, i can. so i backed out. >> now, here you have not only the consistent sis, marcia clark, you have him totally fabricating that the dispatcher told him can you see him, would you go see if you can see where he went. and we have heard the dispatcher's tape. the opposite was told. the dispatcher told him not to follow him. we don't need you to do that.

>> exactly. that was the first one that really jumped out at me. and i thought what? that's exactly the opposite. that tells you right away he is setting this up. he is setting this whole story up from very beginning to make himself sound as though he is the innocent party and he is just following police orders. and he is not trying to track trayvon martin down at all, showing i think a guilty conscience about the fact and awareness that he did track down trayvon martin. and of course we know from rachel jeantel's testimony trayvon is setting get off me, get off me. that it's very clear who is the pursuer and who is the aggressor in this confrontation. >> john, when you bring this all together, as i'm sure the prosecutor will do in summation, is this significant? you've got these inconsistencies. you've got him saying blatantly saying that the dispatcher told him to follow the guy when the opposite has happened. isn't this significant if it's all strung together? >> i mean, the prosecutor having been one myself, you can make a

very strong argument on this case that mr. zimmerman started this whole process out. he in fact has lied consistently about what he did and why he did it. and at the end of the day, he is lying about how the confrontation took place, and you have other evidence to corroborate that when you have ms. jeantel. she is so solid on a core event and it had the ring of truth to it. so the prosecutor can make those kind of arguments. then when you get to this person, this person as the pursuer, he is armed with a gun, he ultimately kills this kid. and he claims the justification for it that he was getting beat when he was in fact the initial pursuer. he never retreated. he never got away from him. he never said i'm sorry, i'm not involved in this, backed away. as the aggressor, the prosecutor can make the argument but for his aggressive conduct, this never would have happened. >> now, you also have the situation where he said that had

spread trayvon martin's hands out once he had shot him. and because he didn't know if he had something in his hands, and he spread them out to make sure he had nothing that he was going to assault him with, faith. but then we find that trayvon martin's hands were folded underneath him, and that he had not spread out his hands, which is another total fabrication from zimmerman. >> right. and some people say well, that's minor. perhaps he didn't remember. i don't think any of these things were minor. he made these statements within hours and days after this incident occurred, where these facts would be the freshest in his mind. the truth is the truth. it does not change. he gave different accounts of this event and the way it happened. and that's extremely problematic for him. and the prosecutors are going to stand up and outline every single thing he said that was inconsistent that he could not back up, that he changed. and that is going to be very powerful arguments in their summation. >> well, i've heard a very good legal minds say that both of

them want it both ways. if it's inconsistent, the other side it doesn't mean anything, it means a lot. if it's on your side, it doesn't mean anything. lisa bloom said that. faith, good day or bad day for who? >> i think this was a very good day for the prosecution. they had to put in the statements. this means that zimmerman probably will not take the witness stand, but they highlighted inconsistencies that i think they have to do in order to get a conviction. >> lisa, good day, bad day? >> best day for the prosecution so far, because we're getting to george zimmerman's story of exactly what happened, and the inconsistencies in that story, some of which really sound like intentional fabrications. >> marcia clark, good day or bad day for who? >> good day for the prosecution, i have to say. here is the thing, reverend. all of the inconsistencies are consistently pointing. they're the kind of inconsistencies that always seem to go in favor of george zimmerman's innocence. so the extent he has fabricated, it's always to paint himself in the innocent light. and that to me shows a guilty conscience. >> john burris, good day or bad

day for who? >> i think it's the best day for the prosecution that they've had. they've had a lot of difficult days. even their own witnesses have turned out to be better for the defense. today that did not happen. the sergeant was a good witness for them. he maintained himself as a good witness throughout. so it was good day for them. >> faith jenkins, lisa bloom, marcia clark, john burris, thank you all for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> thank you. coming up, a dramatic moment in court today. new audio from mr. zimmerman played reveals more use of the phrase "these guys." how might the jury react? plus, my thoughts on president obama's emotional visit to nelson mandela's robben island jail cell. stay with us. the end.

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they always get away. today the jury heard that audio from george zimmerman's first police interview the night he shot trayvon martin. what did he mean? and what might it mean for this trial? that's next. [ whispering ] shhh. it's only a dream. and we have home insurance. but if we made a claim, our rate would go up... [ whispering ] shhh. you did it right. you have allstate claim rate guard so your rates won't go up just because of a claim. [ whispering ] are we still in a dream? no, you're in an allstate commercial. so get allstate home insurance with claim rate guard... [ whispering ] goodnight.

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it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. (girl) w(guy) dive shop.y? (girl) diving lessons. (guy) we should totally do that. (girl ) yeah, right. (guy) i wannna catch a falcon! (girl) we should do that. (guy) i caught a falcon. (guy) you could eat a bug. let's do that. (guy) you know you're eating a bug. (girl) because of the legs. (guy vo) we got a subaru to take us new places. (girl) yeah, it's a hot spring. (guy) we should do that. (guy vo) it did. (man) how's that feel? (guy) fine. (girl) we shouldn't have done that. (guy) no. (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. the prosecution is trying to prove a charge of second-degree murder by arguing that guatemala profiled trayvon martin. here is mr. zimmerman in his first interview with police after the shooting. >> there has been a few times

where i've seen a suspicious person in the neighborhood and we call the police,s the non-emergency line. and these guys always get away. >> these guys always get away. it was similar language he used in his call to police earlier that night. >> he's coming to check me out. he's got something in his hands. i don't know what his deal is. >> okay. just let me know if he does anything. we got them on the way. just let me know if this guy does anything else. >> okay. these [ bleep ], they always get away. >> joining me now is former florida homicide prosecutor ken padowitz, now a defense attorney. ken, first of all, thanks for being here tonight. >> thanks for having me. >> "they always get away", these

guys always get away. why is mr. zimmerman's state of mind so important in this second-degree murder murder trial? >> this is everything. this is where the north pole and the south pole come together. we have it on the 911 tape, and now we have the same phrase heard again. this is a window into george zimmerman's head. we can't take a knife and cut it open and look inside. but he is just provided us that transparency, where we know what he is thinking. and the prosecution's main thing they have to prove in this case for second-degree murder, the elements for that charge is a depraved mind. they have to show this ill will, spite, evil intent. this is part of the jury instructions that the jury is going to hear from the judge and giving him the elements for second-degree murder. depraved mind is everything. and those phrases, twice now from mr. zimmerman, they support that notion from the prosecution that he has his depraved mind,

that this is in fact a second-degree murder case. >> now the prosecution is also trying to show that zimmerman saw trayvon as a suspect. devisinghle on the read part of zimmerman's written statement to police where, againing using the word that he was a suspect that night. watch this. >> the suspect emerged from darkness and circled my vehicle. the dispatcher told me not to follow the suspect. the suspect emerged from the darkness and said -- you got a problem. >> he used the word suspect to refer to trayvon martin. have you uttered those words or informed him in any way that's the word he is supposed to use to refer to trayvon martin? >> no. >> when police officers are talking about a person they suspect of doing a criminal -- of being a criminal, committing a crime, did they refer to them

as suspect? >> yes, we do, if we suspect them of a crime, they're a suspect. >> now, calling trayvon a suspect, ken, repeatedly in a written statement, what does that show? >> well, again, that goes to the prosecution's intention of trying to show that he has a depraved mind. that's the phrase for today. depraved mind. and if you think that a teenager walking with a can of pop some skittles, you know, if you're saying that they're always getting away and you're looking at this person as a suspect, that shows what the prosecution is trying to get to the jury, depraved mind. mr. zimmerman has what it takes under florida law to be prosecuted and to be found guilty of first-degree murder is what the prosecution is trying to tell this jury. the evidence supports it from the own mouth of the defendant. >> now, mind you, there had been no crime committed.

there was nothing he had been suspected for. so what would you possibly be repeating, he was a suspect, when we're not even say here is a crime, is this the one that did it? there is no crime that has been committed other than the killing of trayvon martin, who is at this point dead and you're calling him a suspect. >> exactly. and that's why it goes to that depraved mind element, which is so, so important. here the defense is alleging self-defense. remember, the florida self-defense instruction says that zimmerman has to reasonably believe that he is in facing eminent death, or eminent great bodily harm. but you have to read that law in context of everything that occurred out there at the scene. that he was being followed, that he was being stalked, that he was being looked at as a suspect when he was doing nothing wrong. so when we take all these things together, the jury is going to have to use that self-defense instruction, but also look at the evidence of the depraved

mind of george zimmerman. and that's going to be very strong evidence for the prosecution. >> ken padowitz, thank you for being here tonight. and we will certainly be following this. a big day tomorrow. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] this is george. the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy. ♪ for all those who sleep too hot or too cool, for all those who sleep and struggle to sleep comfortably together, now there's a solution. the company that individualized your comfort with the sleep number bed is now introducing sleep number dual temp, the revolutionary temperature-balancing layer with active air technology that works on any mattress, including yours. whether you sleep hot or cool sleep number dual temp allows each of you to select your ideal temperature. so you can both sleep exactly the way you like-at your own perfect temperature.

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took action to kill medicaid expansion. they are literally turning down health care money for the poor. it's just not right. so we're taking action. we're proud to partner with the national association of free clinics this wednesday on july 3rd. we'll be live at the free clinic in new orleans. it takes a huge team effort to provide these free clinics, and we need your help. please donate. if everyone hearing any voice right now donated just $1, just $1, it would make a difference to so many families. please, please go to urgentcare.msnbc.com. with your help, we can make a difference and get health care to so many americans that are really in need.

texas governor rick perry is determined to wage a war on women's rights. but he's got a big fight on his

hands. today thousands gathered at the state capitol to protest a massive bill perry is trying to ram through a special session of congress. the bill was already defeated last week, thanks to an 11-hour filibuster led by state senator wendy davis. the outcry thousands of pro-choice protesters. apparently governor perry doesn't think that counts. so today he is pushing it a second time. and democrats are ready. >> politicians who are in control in this capitol have forgotten their duty to represent all of us. folks who work hard every day. we need people in politics who love this place as much as the rest of us do. people who want to build a better texas rather than a better political resume. >> the determination that we're seeing in texas is needed now

more than ever, because all over this country, gop governors are signing strict new anti-women legislation into law. last night ohio governor kasich signed legislation that would severely limit women's reproductive rights. see any women in that picture? yeah, neither do i. but wendy davis and the people of texas have ignited an activist fire, and we're ready to fight for women's rights across the country. joining me now is texas democratic -- democratic texas state representative johnson and salon's joan walsh. thanks for being on the show tonight. >> thank you for inviting me. >> you were at the rally today along with wendy davis. what was the message for governor perry? >> i think the message is we don't understand why men cannot understand that we have rights of our own, and they shouldn't be trampled upon.

i know that men understand that we can make decisions for ourselves, and it's not necessary for them to make them for us. and we are not going to be bullied. and that is the message. we will not be bullied. our constitution rights would l not be trampled upon, and we're not going to take it sitting down. >> now, joan, we see governor perry making this move. last night governor kasich signed into law, a law that is extreme, a law that says rape crisis counselors face new restrictions. women seeking abortions must undergo medically unnecessary ultrasound, even if they don't want one. and their choice and their doctor doesn't recommend one. and they must pay for these ultra sounds on top of that. it's extreme stuff, joy, it's unbelievable stuff, reverend al. and we're seeing it over and over. i want to point out, and representative thompson knows this better than i do. our side is being accused of being anti-democratic.

but these bills, governor perry called a special session to get these bills through that could not get through during the regular session. john kasich is signing -- this is a budget bill. these are amendments attached to a budget bill. so they're not doing this in a very orthodox way either. they know that they are on the wrong side of these issues. they know that women are rising up against them. but they're doing it anyway. >> joan is right. but representative thompson, governor perry had some real harsh words for pro-choice activist, pro rights activist who gathered at the state capitol last week. listen to this and give me your response. >> the question is are you going to let a small group of people take over the process, an unruly mob, to keep democracy. >> an unruly mob. >> well, let me tell you what my response is. the people came out, and they

have a right to redress their government. i think the first amendment of the united states constitution gives us that right. and they let their voices be heard. and they want to make sure that the governor understand that they are a part of this society, that they have rights, and those rights shouldn't be trampled upon in texas. and they have a right to be heard. he is the governor of all of the people and not just some of the people. >> now, this new law would bring the amount of abortion clinics in the state down from 42 to just five to do new restrictions. and that's a big change, representative thompson. and it amazes me, joan, how it seems the republicans just love democracy, right, unruly mob, special sessions, put budget amendments in to change laws. >> right. but they're trying to take away our legal constitutionally protected rights. i mean, we all here know that we

cannot get rid of abortion. all they are doing is getting rid of safe and legal abortion. when you go down to five clinics, five providers in a state as large as texas, reverend al, you are basically saying to women they cannot exercise their choice. you're making it so onerous, that this is no longer a choice for them. and that is their goal. >> now, during the special session, the governor has a lot of power in that state. representative thompson, what is the next step? >> the next step is on to my role, the hearings on the bill would start about 3:30 in the afternoon and go to midnight. and all persons who are not able to testify by midnight will not be heard. those bills then would be sent to the floor of the house on tuesday coming next week. and action would be taken by the texas house of representatives and then go to the senate, the texas senate for its action. >> so the fight goes on. and this is about rights. this is not about people having

to do anything. it's about people having the choice and having the right to make their choice, representative thompson. >> the constitution of the united states give that right to them. it has been interpreted by the supreme court of the united states. and the women know their rights, and they're not going to let them be trampled upon. they are not going to be bullied by this governor, by the lieutenant governor, or by anyone else. women refuse to be bullied in the state of texas. and we will see them at the polls in 2010. >> see them at the polls. now, joan, quickly on that one, isn't this the party that was trying to get away from todd akin and all of that. >> right. >> have they learned their lesson? >> they haven't learned their lesson. they can't get away from todd akin because they are todd akin. but we're seeing there are great texas democrats who deserve our support, and that's the best lesson of this last week of activism. >> state representative thompson and joan walsh, thank you both for your time this evening. >> thanks. >> thank you for inviting me. president obama's emotional

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it's time for "reply al." keep sending me all your questions. friend or foe, i want to know. elaine writes night after night i watch your fight with the tireless energy and the injustices with words and actions that try to diminish or eliminate our rights. you do it with grace and determination. where does your unrelenting energy come from? well, elaine, it's not easy. but i'm motivated every day in some way to keep pushing forward. let me give you an example. a scene like this really keeps me inspired. president obama over the weekend visited the jail cell on robben

island where nelson mandela spent 18 years of his life in prison. 18 years. the president reflected on that powerful moment and later shared why mandela's legacy is so important to us all. >> like billions all over the world, i and the american people have drawn strength from the example of this extraordinary leader and the nation that he changed. nelson mandela showed us that one man's courage can move the world. >> one man's courage can move the world. the courageous work of nelson mandela and others like him helped give me and other activists energy to keep on fighting. i remember working with various leaders, great leaders that aspired to greatness. they all were committed. i worked closely with martin luther king iii. i think of how his father lost

his life. we'll never be a nelson mandela or a martin luther king. most of us will never approach anywhere near a level of greatness. but we all can do something. i can imagine 27 years in jail like mandela. i've been arrested for marches, but nothing like that. but if we can make our little contribution count, that's what is important, and that's what inspires me. if you have a question or comment, please e-mail me at askrev@msnbc.com. remember, friend or foe, i want to know. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. george zimmerman tells his story and republicans bash hillary as too old. let's play "hardball".