>> me, too. >> july 4th is about freedom. freedom to choose which part of the pig to feast on. >> how do you want bacon at the 4th of july barbecue. bacon wrapped scallops? bacon w? >> how do you not work bacon in is my question? >> that's true. let's see the front of them. and the back of them. come on, t.j. too slow. have a wonderful holiday, everybody. "morning joe" starts right now. >> i think it's good that they're delaying the train wreck, but i think this bill needs to be repealed. i think the more the public learns about this, the more they'll demand that, and the more they demand it, the more they'll respond to that. there are elections coming up in the future, and they could result in something that's occurred now.

but as people learn about the consequences of this law, i think they're going to want to see it not just delayed, but repealed. >> good morning. it's wednesday, july 3rd, july 4th eve. big newsday. with us on set to talk about it, new york magazine and msnbc m t political analyst john holman. thomas roberts, and former adviser to george bush, nicole wallace. and lee gallagher. also to talk about health care, "the washington post" columnist and msnbc policy analyst ezra klein. it's july, but we've got three big stories we're going to talk about. one developing overseas, a couple here, one here at home. president obama's health care law has suffered what is so far the major setback it's seen. the administration announcing yesterday it's going to delay the mandate that requires larger

companies to insure their workers. they're saying the policy is bad for the country. we're going to talk to david axelrod, president obama adviser, to get his take on what this means. also in egypt, we're just hours away for the deadline set by the military for president mohamed morsi to either fix the situation, the vast protest in the street, or to step aside. morsi says he's not going anywhere. we're going to have a live report on that in just a moment. also overseas, the third big story. the saga of edward snowden continues. it gets a little stranger. yesterday in bolivia, they're accusing the united states of basically orchestrating a plot to kidnap that country's president as he tried to fly home. we're going to have details how the rumors of snowden's asylum bid forced the plane with bolivia's leader to make an unscheduled landing in europe. first we're going to deal with the health care situation

on obama care, thomas roberts. >> the white house talking about slowing down the implementation of this key component of obama care. the obama administration offering a one-year delay to employers who are supposed to start offering health insurance to their workers next year. this law required businesses with more than 50 workers to provide coverage or face this $2,000 fine. it's one of the most controversial aspects of the law, and many small business owners say it's too burdensome and complicated to comply. with this announcement by the administration, you can imagine republican reaction was swift and jubilant about this. political leaders called the plan a train wreck. grover norquist was quoted as saying ouch, this is not the president's critics saying his plan sucks. this is the president saying my plan sucks. if you knew what was in it, you wouldn't like it. and then in virginia, gubernatorial candidate and state attorney general ken kuch nelly said, "if you talk to any

health professional, they can always tell you the early warning signs of a systemic failure. today's announcement that the obama administration officials are delaying implementation of a key aspect of the president's unprecedented federal fwoft intrusion into our health care means they rushed through the legislative process and is fundamentally flawed." so republicans are glad there's this delay. it gets back to the waiver talk. about people are saying, this is a big, swift-moving piece of legislation. it needs to take time to be implemented. would you be jubilant? >> nicole's always jubilant. >> i'm always jubilant at this hour. >> she was smiling this morning. >> actually, ezra klein's facial hair makes me feel jubilant. >> i'm glad i'm having that effect on you, nicole. >> before you even start yelling at me about health care. so here's what you have to give them credit for. even the white house recognizes that their health care law would cripple businesses, and the vast

majority of jobs that are created in the recovery are created by very small businesses who would be harmed by the implementation of this law. so you have to give them credit for recognizing that it would have a disastrous impact on the recovery and on growth. but it leaves you wondering why they didn't think of this in the first place, why they didn't have any sense these sort of mandates would cripple the recovery they're relying upon to bring jobs back. >> ezra, you write very aggressively about this provision. you like the overall obamacare, but you don't think this provision should ever be implemented. you think it's a bad idea, right? is >> back in '09 when this came out, i wrote a column calling this the worst idea in the bill. we need to back up a minute. when these things happen, we focus on it real tightly. this is not a big part of the bill. i want to get through numbers. what this says, if you're an employer over 50 employees and you don't offer health insurance or health insurance your employees can afford, you're going to pay a penalty of $2,000

over every 30th employee. it's a bit complicated. here's how many employers it affects. we have 6 million employers in this country, 210,000 are over 50 employees. you're talking about the minority. 95% of them already offer health insurance. they don't really have an issue under this part of the bill. you're really dealing with 10,000 employers we expect to have an issue. under some laws, some will offer health insurance that will be good for their workers. some will potentially cut back on hours or cut back on jobs. that's sort of the group you're dealing with. we think that group employs about 1% to 2% of american workers. this is an important thing for this group. it gets the administration a lot of bad press. and the reason i don't like it is the way it's constructed, by creating this 50-worker cutoff, it creates for employers right around that cutoff who don't offer health insurance, a reason not to hire above 50. this is a small part of the

bill. not one of the major ways people are getting coverage. >> your analysis of why this bill is bad is just what the national federation of small business would be, it burdens these -- you're right, it's a relatively small number. it burdens them and causes them to say things like let's cut back hours. let's not hire people who need health insurance. >> there are a bunch of policies they would not like that i would. so another way you can do this exact same kind of idea is the house bill had a requirement that, if you're above a certain size, you have to spend a certain amount of payroll on health insurance or create some kind of fine. what that does is it doesn't create any distinction between how many workers you have or don't have. it doesn't create a distinction between how many full-time workers or part-time workers. it keeps the bad disincentive effects. this is a version of the mandate the business liked better. senate democrat aides were absolutely puzzled. it was coming through olympia

snow and other people. they didn't understand why business liked doing it this way, but they threw up their hands and said, you know what, if it gives us support, we'll do it. but business turned against it and they don't want any employer mandate. i think you can do this in ways they don't have the disincentive effects. the way they did do it isn't a good way. thank you the not a big part of the bill. someone who thinks it's really important legislation, i'm happy to see it delayed. i don't think it will hurt the bill, and i think it will be better. >> is there's one, two, three, four, five people at this table, and ezra, none of whom are in business whatsoever. you're the closest thing to a business person because you talk to business people all day. as the representative of high capitalism, what is the business world going to say when they wake up today and see this change has been made? >> as ezra pointed out, very few companies with even close to 50 companies don't offer health insurance already. we're talking about the very

small employers. for them, it's very sensitive. i think the administration is very sensitive to a lot of businesses perceive these as burdensome reporting requirements. it's a lot to make this change, let alone the costs involved. that's something they're very sensitive to. big business, you're not going to hear much about this. of course, those that don't like obamacare in general will be jubilant as many other people are for the symbolism of this. i think, in terms of businesses affected, it's very small businesses. those are the ones that are creating a lot of jobs. >> it's a strange thing -- just let me follow up with this. it's a strange thing because one of the things you hear constantly from businesses always is what we really want from the federal government is certainty. we want to know what the rules of the road are going to be so we can follow them. this is something that's been moving, we thought, inexorably forward, we thought, for the last couple of years. all of a sudden to discover one day, hey, wait, this could be delayed one year and maybe it

will be delayed again. it seems to create a regulatory and policy uncertainty that would be what most businesses, regardless of where they are ideologically, would like least. >> that's true. business doesn't like uncertainty, but business likes money. this is going to be received well, i think, by the business community. and you could argue that obama has already been so friendly to the business community. do they need another break? i think we're really talking about the very small businesses here, and i think there's some logic to that. >> it's that kind of keen understanding of business why you're so good at what you do. >> and ezra can make this about a very small group, but there's no group of businesses more important to the economic recovery, and there's no group of businesses that republicans are more interested in helping to grow and getting government out of their way of growing and flourishi flourishing. this may be a small number in ezra's analysis and this may be just about money, but this is to small business owners about the vast philosophical misunderstanding that democrats

generally, and obama specifically, has about the way small businesses function and grow. this is -- i don't know that there is any debate more rooted in a philosophical divide between democrats and republicans than the desire for small business owners to get the federal government out of their business and out of their lives. a lot of these businesses are people's homes. we had neil ferguson a couple of weeks ago talking about starting a business and having to post health care regulations on his refrigerator. it's impossible for any of us who haven't started a small business in our homes to understand how burdensome the health care regulations are and the health care law specifically. >> we're going to talk about the politics of this a little later. david axelrod will be here. let's move now to the other big story. the countdown in egypt. >> morsi was given the deadline today. egypt close to boiling over. we have the count now at 23 people reported dead. president mohamed morsi is

defiant, vowing not to resign, pledging to keep his constitutional legitimacy with his life, if necessary. he's at odds with the military, which if no agreement is reached, the army will suspend the country's constitution and dissolve parliament. all this as hundreds of thousands descend once more on tahrir square, spelling out their message to morsi in lasers. msnbc correspondent eamon is live in egypt. it seems as if morsi has already thrown down the gauntlet, saying he's not going anywhere. >> reporter: that's absolutely correct. he raised the stakes yesterday. some thought he would strike a reconciliatory tone, but he did the opposite of that. he remained defiant, saying he had constitutional legitimacy. he said what was really at stake was not a matter of changing the

country's leadership but derailing the path to democracy and undermining what egypt has worked to build over the course of the last year. he kept saying legitimacy over and over again. that's what he was playing to supporters, and his supporters were rallying behind the message. his supporters have been going to the streets since these protests started gaining momentum, trying to show that president morsi still enjoys popularity, and overthrowing him or removing him from power would simply undermine egypt's democracy and turn this into a military style coup. opponents of morsi have gone to tahrir square. as you mentioned, the clock is ticking on his term in office, and they want the military to intervene. if he does not step down, they want him to mandatorily force him out of office. it's a showdown politically as well as on the streets. both the opponents and the supporters of president morsi, they have begun to clash in cairo and certain parts of the country, and the big concern is in the coming hours, it could

get very violent, thomas. >> ayman, what is the military or security forces doing to deal with that issue? obviously, the violence has started ahead of that deadline? at 11:00 a.m., we expect that to be the tipping point if nothing happens. >> reporter: that's correct. it depends how the military tries to defend itself. they've issued stern warnings. they don't want people approaching military buildings or installations. they're trying to keep the protesters at bay. they've already employed additional security sources to keep the large crowds isolated from one another so it doesn't turn bloodier. in areas where the military is not deployed in perhaps more congested areas of cairo, that is where some of the clashes are taking place, and the country's police force has been unable to maintain any kind of law and order over the past year. that is going to be a huge challenge for the military in the coming hours, especially, again, depending on how angry either side gets because, as we've been reporting, it's not clear what the military intends to do. do they plan on going to the

presidential palace and forcing president morsi out of office? is it going to be something peaceful the military does, or will they be deploying in a large show of force? one way or the other, it's going to anger the crowd, and that's why people are extremely nervous about what could unfold. >> you've got basically three parts of this. you've got the president. you've got the military. you've got the protesters in the street. the administration in the united states is trying to stay as out of it as they can, talking about this as up to the egyptian people to decide. how much concern, how much call in egypt is there for any of the three groups for the united states to weigh in, to take a role in at least suggesting what they'd like to see the outcome be. >> reporter: it's certainly a double-edged sword and a catch 22 for the u.s. over the course of the last year, many of the opponents of president mohamed morsi felt that the united states had been warming up to the muslim brotherhood, that they had been dealing with them and had not been putting more pressure on the muslim brotherhood to accept

more democratic reforms and to allow for political minorities to be at the political table. however, at the same time, the united states has lost a lot of credibility here over the last several years after supporting people like president hosni mubarak, the previous president, and as a result of that, the u.s. influence has diminished. that's what makes it a challenge for those who call on the u.s. to exert more influence but at the same time asking them to step out of egypt's political affairs. but the government still has tremendous influence on the egyptian military, and that could be pivotal in the coming hours as well. >> is ayman, thank you. we'll be back with you throughout the day. appreciate it. >> it's interesting that morsi put these calls to leave, mubarak has spoken out saying that morsi should leave, that the people have spoken. as we saw there, the helicopters flying over the crowds with the

towing of the egyptian flags, that was a signal to all the people the military had given this deadline, that they were intervening. these people know their voices were heard to get rid of mubarak, a person who was in power for 30 years. now that the military has given that signal, these people are going to expect something big to happen, and most likely, the same thing that happened when they got rid of mubarak, the fact they can get rid of morsi. what are the alternatives? who's waking up in d.c. with the egyptian folder today? >> very tough for the president. morsi has been elected. how does a white house balance siding with the protesters versus siding with the military versus siding with a duly elected president. >> i worked for president bush when hamas won large numbers of elections, and president bush was so committed to the freedom agenda and really, i think, understood that this is what democratic elections can result in. i think the challenge here is

the white house seems to be juggling all these hot spots in a way that doesn't give much confidence not only in the region but here at home. americans are wondering what's going on? is >> be more specific. in this case, in the case of egt,he president is saying it's up to the egyptian people. should he be calling for the removal of morsi? >> i think the president has to be consistent. i think what he said with regard to step aside, it was because the will of the people needs to let that be the outcome. >> but mubarak hadn't been elected? >> the white house has to balance diplomacy and the mood on the street, and the mood on the street has shifted dramatically, and now the mood is to overthrow another one of its leaders. this time a democratically elected one. whatever we think of the muslim brotherhood, whatever we think of the way this wave is going in the middle east, this is the result of a democratic election. >> let's talk about your former

boss quickly. because we have former president george w. bush weighing in on the situation in egypt. >> i think what you're seeing is an evolution. count democracies take a while to take root. look at our own country. it took 100 years to get rid of slavery. democracy requires a patient hand. democracy requires the building of a civil society. i believe that democracy will ultimately take hold. i hope that people who live in comfortable nations are helping some of these young egyptians understand how to build political parties and understand how to claim their rightful place in the political process. they had been snuffed out of the political process, and all of a sudden, they've been now given a chance. i find it instructive the current leaders campaigned on a

platform, and now the egyptians are trying to hold them to account. >> so just hours away, what do you think of the stability as morsi faces the deadline? >> there's no stability. the currency, the mess. there's no guarantee, whether morsi stays or someone else comes in, that's going to be instantly cleared. oerpd, there could be some sort of backlash on the other side if morsi's ousted. it's very, very unstable, very unclear, and it's also not clear what the opposition, what the content would be if, in fact, they're victorious. what is the next phase? this is a movement that came to be so swiftly, just a couple months ago, and with a heft that has surprised everybody. the mobilization has been very powerful, but the actual -- the next step, what happens after, is not really clear one way or the other. >> all right. we're going to have much more conversation coming up in a moment on the mysterious case of edward snowden.

where is he? we know he's not on a plane to bolivia. we can confirm that. coming up on "morning joe," we have david axelrod, dr. zeke emanuel weighing in on the delay in the obamacare. and later eight-time grammy winner usher is going to be here on set. >> i'm so excited. >> up next -- halpern, you're not excited? >> pro-usher. pro emanuel. pro axelrod. >> there are two things better for a holiday weekend than usher and fireworks. >> up next, the top stories in politico's playbook. first, here's dylan dreyer with the forecast. >> we've got a lot of rain out there now basically from the southeast all the way to the northeast, where we do have flood watches and warnings. it's the moisture off the gulf

of mexico. our best chance of seeing three to four-plus inches of rain down through atlanta and eastern tennessee and down through the panhandle of florida. of course, we're still talking about the oppressive heat in the southwest. excessive heat warnings still in effect. temperatures will once again be above 110 degrees in most areas. for your forecast, the middle of the country looking pretty good. 80 in kansas city today. and tomorrow for the 4th of july, we're going to see all that rain in the east coast moving further west. maybe not so nice in the ohio valley, but east coast looking nice in all the major cities. we're at the legendary southfork ranch in dallas for a cookout with world champion grill master brett galloway.

he's serving his guests walmart choice premium steaks. but they don't know it yet. they will. it's a steak-over. steak was excellent. very tender. melts in your mouth. it was delicious. tonight you are eating walmart steak. what???!! good steak. two thumbs up? look, i ate all of mine. it matches any good steakhouse if not better. walmart choice premium steak in the black package. it's 100% money back guaranteed. try it for your next backyard barbecue. the ones getting involved and staying engaged. they're not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is "how did i end up here?" i started schwab for those people. people who want to take ownership of their investments, like they do in every other aspect of their lives.

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take a look at the morning papers. "the wall street journal," a former journalist is accused of stealing from a jewelry store and selling it for up to $1.3 million. after she resipd her post, she checked out items that were never returned. she is she's charged with wire fraud and interstate transportation of stolen property and could face up to 20 years in prison. >> the prosecution in the bradley manning trial has rested its case after calling 80 witnesses to the stand. manning, a former army intelligence analyst, admits handing over thousands of classified documents to wikileaks. he's charged with two dozen counts of violating the espionage act and aiding and abetting the enemy. he faces life in prison. >> "usa today" for the month of june, ford, chrysler, and gm

reported a jump in sales from this time last year. ford is up 13% and had its best june since '06 with pickup trucks up 23%. gm had an increase of 6%. they say this rise is due to an increase in consumer confidence as well as low interest rates. >> detroit is back. >> in our parade of papers, "the l.a. times" says apple and time warner cable may be inching closer to a deal to make time warner's cable channels available on apple tv. this would mark a major expansion of the service of apple tv and would follow the addition of hbo and espn to the service last month. >> is and the "the tennesseean," born with a backwards left foot that had to be amputated, buttercup, the duck, has a prosthetic left foot made on a 3d printer. novo company helped develop a

prototype to help buttercup after learning the of the duck's unique circumstances. buttercup is adjusting well to the new foot made out of sili n silicon. >> i had to wear prosthetic shoes when i was a kid. >> silicon feet made on a 3d printer. >> look at me as an example. so the ventura county star, a man in california has been arrested and sent to jail for refusing to turn off a 14-foot neon anti-mitt romney sign that sits on his front lawn. steven showers, a self-described republican, who said he was protesting romney's mormonism was arrested on zone and code violations. police released showers after he vowed to turn off the sign, a neon sign. >> should we tell him it's over? everything is okay. >> patrick gavin with this

morning's politico playbook. we see that weiner's wife is entering the campaign scene. obviously, she's been well-regarded throughout the entire ordeal of what happened to him with twittergate. this is the first time she's gone out on his behalf and asking people to get involved. >> it's interesting to watch the drip drip of how she gets involved. she's famously behind the scenes. my colleague got her hands on a personal e-mail sent out to 200 of her closest friends and colleagues. given her experience, you can expect that's a pretty impressive rolodex. she admitted she largely operated in the shadows. she said, i spent most of my adult life trying to help people with causes they believe in. but as anthony begins his journey in the race for new york city's mayor, i want to tell you how excited i am to support his campaign. she thinks that everything in this campaign so far is going very well, and she's very impressed with what she sees

around the city. i do think you can expect to see more and more throughout anthony weiner's campaign, and she's obviously a huge asset to him. >> is ppatrick, she's a huge as and he's doing better in the polls. how do you handicap that race? >> i think it's him to lose only because he has the name recognition. i do think, when the field narrows and it does, as we imagine it to be, becomes an anthony weiner versus christine quinn race. it will narrow a little bit. you guys probably know more about this than anybody. the one thing to look out for, all indications so far are that the clintons don't want anything to do with this race. i do find it hard to believe, even if it were to become closer between anthony weiner and christine quinn, that the clintons aren't going to do a favor for huma abedin, who has been a longtime aide. but it's anthony weiner's race to lose. >> manhattan is a long way from

morgantown, west virginia. what are the odds that this backfires in manchin's home state? >> manchin knows the nra, whenever the race starts, is going to launch a pretty big campaign against him. the idea that he has an ally in michael bloomberg is sort of a nice cushion against what's going to be a pretty strong onslaught from the nra in 2018. this also shows that bloomberg is far from giving up on this. he's made it clear, not only does he want to support manchin and other democratic senators but he wants to punish democratic senators who voted against it. even though this bill has fallen from the headlines, for mayor bloomberg it certainly has not. >> patrick gavin, thank you. >> thank you. >> homer bailey goes for the no-hitter versus the giants. you may be surprised at the last

person who accomplished that feat. sports coming up on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] this is bob, a regular guy with an irregular heartbeat. the usual, bob? not today. [ male announcer ] bob has afib: atrial fibrillation not caused by a heart valve problem, a condition that puts him at greater risk for a stroke. [ gps ] turn left. i don't think so. [ male announcer ] for years, bob took warfarin, and made a monthly trip to the clinic to get his blood tested. but not anymore. bob's doctor recommended a different option: once-a-day xarelto®. xarelto® is the first and only once-a-day prescription blood thinner

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time for sports. we've got a lot to talk to you

about this. we're going to tease it with tim tebow in a bar fight with aaron hernandez. >> you've got to say tim tebow walks into a bar. >> first we go to tonight's games where we haven't seen a no-hitter since 2013. last season, there had been five. brandon crawford grounds out to bailey for the last out. next batter, goes down swinging on the high heat. out to go. gregor blanco grounds to third for the final out. homer bailey becoming the first pitcher to record a no-hitter. the last pitcher to throw a no-hitter, that would be homer bailey on september 28th, last year. he joins justin verlander, mark buehrle, and roy halladay as the only pitchers with multiple no hitters. he was rewarded with a shaving cream in the face there. >> you pitch a no-hitter, and they try to -- >> they blank you. >> they tried to tackle him.

they threw stuff on him. >> his eyes are burning. >> he's got shaving cream on his neck. the all-star game is two weeks away. like every year, controversy over the roster. dodgers rookie yaciel puig is undoubtedly the most exciting rookie in the big leagues, but his peers don't think that's enough to be an all-star. mainly closer jonathan papelbon. >> he hasn't played in the big leagues yet, and they're comparing him to some hall of fame big leaguers. to me, it's an absolute joke. it's really kind of stupid, if you ask me. but you get back from l.a., and this yaciel puig, whatever, is staring at me. i'm like the guy's got a month in the big leagues. i don't know he's even got a month in the big leagues.

you're comparing him to this and that and say he's going to make the all-star team. that's a joke to me. >> welcome to the big show. when asked for comment last night, yaciel puig had this to say. >> this ball to centerfield and deep. going back, no more room. >> papelbon had no comment after that. >> i will say that, when jonathan papelbon left the boston red sox, he was missed for many things, but not for his intelligence, maturity, and class. >> outspokenness. >> puig is obviously making a good case for his all-star spot. he's batting .443 with 8 home runs, 17 rbis in 47 games. >> .447 ain't bad. >> i get it. he's not ty cobb yet. he's been around a few weeks. but papelbon ought to let the guy enjoy himself. he's having a good year. >> the work speaks for itself. >> alex rodriguez, speaking of work, back on the field last

night having a rehab start. >> in yankee stadium, right? the big show. >> not the big show. yankees single "a" team, the charleston river dogs. he played three innings at third and went to bat twice. he grounded weakly to third for the double play. on his second plate appearance, he struck out. easing back in. >> yankees fans, get excited. a-rod says he's going to need all 20 rehab games before he's ready to come back to the majors. >> apparently so. >> enough baseball. let's talk bar fights. >> this is good. >> finally, just when you thought the aaron hernandez story couldn't get any more bizarre, according to a 2007 police report, tim tebow had to intervene in a bar fight between hernandez and a bouncer over a disputed bill. the two were teammates, you may recall, on the florida gators. tebow, in an attempt to play peace maker, offered to pay that bill to, quote, help resolve the

conflict at that time. police recommended a felony assault charge against hernandez for the incident. but the charges went away. >> what was tebow doing in a bar? >> he's well rounded. >> aaron hernandez jerseys are being bid up crazy on ebay, which is really interesting. >> what do you mean? >> in the same way that paula deen book sales are going up. >> what does it say about our culture? >> not very good. >> his own team is exchanging his jersey. if you come in with aaron hernandez jersey, they'll give you a new one. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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live look at the white house. before mika left, she left a chok-a-block full of must read pages. first, wendy davis shouldn't be sapted for her filibuster. almost without exception, davis has been heralded for the war on women, a new gladiator. she has faced such probing questions as how are you even awake today? what's it like for standing that long? is wowser-zowser, wonder woman, will you do that again? when the question of whether we should destroy human life at any cost should reduced to theater

leaving many journalists gushing like breathless red carpet commentators, we have lost more than a sense of decorum. one may agree with davis' principled stand on the texas bill, which she argued tried to do too much, but we need to remember the issue. >> i think kathleen is always spot on, particularly when it comes to threading the needle between celebrating new and important female leaders and focusing on their femaleness. i think that kathleen parker was sort of the first to be on to sarah palin getting more attention for being an iconic conservative female as opposed to just an iconic conservative at the time she delivered her convention speech, which was, i think we can all agree, her high point. kathleen makes an important point. all women, not just in politics but any field, all women grapple with. you welcome the attention, particularly if you're advocating a cause that is near and dear and important to you as

obviously this one is, but when it borders into things like how she's standing for so long and the appearance and the femaleness about it, i think that's still says something not very good about how we cover women in politics. >> wasn't she standing up for femaleness in general and women's reproductive rights? it's interesting to see kathleen parker and people like peggy noonan who will pile on a female leader who's emerging. >> this is a very interesting phenomena. women are usually the first to pile on to other women. >> they're certainly the first to pile on. and the fact that these are seasoned women who don't really have to worry about a woman's right to choose piling on a woman standing up for a woman's right to choose. >> men should care about the issue no matter what side you come down on. >> men should not care about the sanctity of sperm over the women's right to choose so much, and there are too many republican men that need a refresher course and a manual as to how reproductive rights work

and a woman's vagina. >> i'll leave that to you. if you want to put together a manual, knock yourself out. >> you've heard enough republicans talk about how they think the woman's reproductive body works to prove -- >> i think you're talking about very damaging comments that republicans made about inappropriate rape. >> sure. >> is that what you're getting at? >> correct. >> a topic that never ceases to entertain the media. >> but listen to this issue of talking about what deals with a woman's body and when it is it her right to choose with regard to her body, wendy davis is standing up for this, and when kathleen parker and peggy noonan chastise her, it's not that they're standing up for women's rights as they are cutting her down. >> do you read it as a criticism of wendy davis or a criticism of the theatricality of how it's

being covered. it sounds like media criticism, which is fine. we're focusing on the showmanship, not on the fundamental issues. it doesn't sound like she's attacking wendy davis. it sounds like she's attacking the way it's being covered. >> we saw this with rand paul's filibuster. there's something exceptional. people want to know, how do you do it? what are the running shoes like? >> it is theatrical, the filibuster since the beginning of our country. i see her point. there's all the excitement around this. this is a very, very, very serious issue, and it's never an issue any woman wants to find herself in no matter how you think about it. it's this somber issue surrounded by this sort of circus, which is what it was no matter how you think about it. >> we don't have leaders in washington doing this. d.c. could take a page out of austin and what we watched there for when you do believe in something and how you need to stand up and make your case for

it. obviously, as we're seeing here, this video, the supporters she had coming out to back her is incredible. this runs very deep. it's certainly a big conversation. >> is i think what she did is great, and i think it's an important part of the political process. to be commented on separate from the content of the subject at hand. >> nicolle, i want to sneak in another topic. rick perry is going to announce what he's doing next, maybe run for governor, maybe run for president. do you have any idea what he's planning, and what do you think he should do? >> i don't know what he's planning. i think his last run at the republican nomination was so disastrous that it would be welcomed by people on both sides, the laugh for his entertainment value with the left, the supporters on the right might think his last run was so disastrous, he can only improve upon it. i think this moment in the

spotlight will have a bearing, i think. obviously, the religious right will view him as a hero for standing up for the right to choose and abortion rights. i think, again, republicans are not interested in having this be the issue that dominates the national conversation. >> it's certainly the case in your party, nicolle, unlike the democratic party, people often run for president, lose, and come back and get the nomination later. >> joe biden went at it a few times too. >> he's never won the nomination. >> oh, right. you get a few at bats. >> you lose once, and you get it the next time. people haven't often lost the way that rick perry lost. so it's a little different. >> it's interesting to see the policy polling public service with this hypothetical matchup between wendy davis and perry in texas. perry is up by 14 points. he's solid in texas. >> he's up, but i think those two will never run against each other, and i think this issue is particularly divisive. >> coming up, we'll talk nobel

peace prize candidates. why dennis rodman's name is in that conversation. >> front-runner, remarkably enough. >> according to him. >> news you can't use straight ahead. (girl) what does that say? (guy) dive shop. (girl) diving lessons. (guy) we should totally do that. (girl ) yeah, right. (guy) i wannna catch a falcon! (girl) we should do that. (guy) i caught a falcon. (guy) you could eat a bug. let's do that. (guy) you know you're eating a bug. (girl) because of the legs. (guy vo) we got a subaru to take us new places. (girl) yeah, it's a hot spring. (guy) we should do that. (guy vo) it did. (man) how's that feel? (guy) fine. (girl) we shouldn't have done that. (guy) no. (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

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time for the news you can't use but really want. dennis rodman is on the front page with the cover where are they now issue? dennis rodman discusses his role in north korea and his mission on the peace process. he said, "my role is to break the ice with hostile countries. why it's left up to me to smooth things over, i don't know. keeping our country safe isn't my job, it's the black guy's, speaking of obama. but i'll tell you this, if i don't finish in the top three for the nobel peace prize, there's something seriously wrong." >> there's so much to love about the quote. i like the way he talks about himself in the third person. and also, i don't need to win. i just need to be in the top three. >> and referring to president obama as the black guy, which as i can tell, he's also a black guy. >> a great american on the eve of july 4th.

>> we go from that pivotal story to the next one. i want to give a disclaimer. this might be disturbing. if you have kids in the room, just be prepared. if you've seen "under the dome" on cbs, you won't be shocked. this is on youtube where the road can be a dangerous place, especially in the mating season of russia and farmland. >> uh-oh. oh! >> wow, ow. >> did you see, though, as the car was driving up -- >> lu saying that the car struck two copulating cows? >> i didn't say that, you did. >> that tells you all you need to know about the male species. they stop for nothing. >> we should write that book. >> at the minimum, you've got the cover now. >> could you imagine? do you think that's real, though? could we show that again? >> russian video games.

soviet cgi. that's not real. >> because the cow gets -- >> the female is like come on. hang on a second. and, of course, it's the female that gets pegged. listen, i need a drink. >> i like the way the male is hopping behind the female. >> so up next, we're going to ask karl bernstein what he thinks about this. >> he's an expert on that topic. >> we're going to ask zeke emanuel about the copulating cows. honestly, we're going to talk about more importantly what the delay in the health care mandate means for medical coverage nationwide. and we should write that book. >> i think so. out there owning it. the ones getting involved and staying engaged. they're not afraid to question the path they're on. because the one question they never want to ask is

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welcome back to "morning joe." top of the hour. big news day. now joining us, adding to the table, author, best-selling author, award winning author, legendary figure carl bernstein, and from the city of brotherly love, former white house adviser for health policy, the vice p provost for global initiatives at the university of pennsylvania and an msnbc contributor, dr. ezekiel emanuel. >> everybody waking up to the announcement that the white house is going to slow down a key component of the obama

health care. president obama offering a one-year delay to employers who are supposed to start offering health insurance to their workers this year. it provides more than 50 workers to provide kompllicoverage or f $2,000 fine. it's one of the most controversial aspects of this law, and many say it's too burdensome to comply. now we see the waiver in place. republicans were jubilant on this. congressional leaders, including speaker boehner, senator barrasso, and senator cruz calling this a train wreck. gloe grover norquist saying, "ouch, this is not the president's critics saying this sucks, it's the president saying my plan sucks." and ken cuccinelli saying, "if you talk to any health professional, they can always tell you the early warning signs

of a systemic failure. today's announcement that the obama administration officials are delaying implementation of a key aspect of the president's unprecedented federal government intrusion into our health care system is further proof that the law rushed through the legislative process is fundamentally flawed." and in "the washington post," "the regulatory solution reflects the fact that the legislative process around the health care law is completely broken. republicans won't pass any legislation that makes the law work better. improving the law, they fear, will weaken the arguments for repeal. so congress is at a standstill with no viable process for reforming or repairing the bill. the white house is on its own. the affordable care act as problems arise. the white house delay might be better policy, but the way the delay was passed is part of a deeply broken process." ezra normally likes the

affordable care act. >> that's a pretty down beat analysis of where we are right now. let me ask you, dr. emanuel, let's focus not on the backwards decision of yesterday, but what does this mean overall for the successful implementation of this law? >> i actually don't think this is that big of a deal. let me make three quick points. the first thing is i like to say we need to look to 2020 rather than the moment to moment issues for changing the system. this is an enormous system, and every little adjustment isn't going to shake or break the ultimate reform of the system. second, while your introduction says it applies to small business, the employer mandate, so called, actually applies only to companies with 50 or more employees. most of the small businesses are exempt and weren't affected by this to begin with. this really applies to about

200,000 total employers in the united states. and of that, because they're large employers, 94% of them provide health insurance with no mandate. and most of those employers have already set their 2014 health insurance issues, and this isn't going to move them one way or the other. by 2015 they'll see whether the exchanges work, and then the mandate and the penalty will be in place. i don't think this is really going to affect overall implementation a lot. i will say that this provision was -- is complicated for employers to implement. i work at the university of pennsylvania, and it has taken a lot of time to figure out who's covered, who's not covered, who we're responsible for, who we're not responsible for. so i think that flexibility does reflect the fact that employers were finding this challenging to implement. >> is that the biggest surprise

that we're going to get this waiver for small businesses, zeke, and not the health care exchanges issue and how fast, how rapidly they can be set up? >> wait a second. in the law, the companies under 50 -- or 50 employees and under were exempt to begin with. this isn't new from the president. that's in the law because we didn't want to affect small businesses to begin with. the federal government or the white house now isn't changing that part of it. it never affected those with 50 or fewer employees. >> what do you about this from the administration? late in the day, a blog post from valerie jarrett, a blog post from a treasury department official that a lot of us have never heard of. folks are saying why does this guy become the fourth branch of government and get to decide to delay the implementation of this? >> i think it's real inside baseball because they're smart enough in the white house to know the story is going to be picked up, and we're all going

to be talking about it this morning. it's going to be front page in every newspaper in america. it's smart to do it. it takes it off the table in an election year. it says to business, we're not going to shove this down your throat. look, nobody is going to repeal this law. this law is here. it's not going away, and it needs to be perfected. the obama administration, in one area where it's been particularly smart, is in the economy, we're in a recovery, we don't want to alienate business, the people in the white house are saying. they've taken a step that business is going to look favorably upon, and it's going to take this off the election table as well, and the republicans are mad as hell about it in their interest of politicizing everything into an election year issue. this one isn't going to work. >> nicole, is the fact that the law, as carl says, is here to say, whatever the republican

advantages see in attacking it, as they did with president bush's prescription drug plan, work with the white house to try to improve it. >> let me just, with all due respect, i beg to differ. the recovery is still largely a jobless one, and the unemployment rate is ticking down only because people are opting out of the work force. >> that part you're absolutely right about. >> the notion that our recovery is under way, the obama administration has to understand on some level that small business owners are the key to the recovery becoming a recovery in which people actually go back to work. >> this never affected small business. >> if they're hampered -- >> zeke is absolutely right. that's the point. >> this never affected small business. this is a nonargument. >> the law is going to be implemented, as carl says, should republicans sit down with the president and say, let's try to figure out how to improve it. as all major pieces of legislation require. >> i think people in both parties should always be constructive, but i think this law has been political from the beginning because president

obama refused to take input from republicans from go. >> just a moment. that's just not the case. in the senate from the beginning, one of the reasons that the legislation was deferred for so long is that the president and the democrats on the hill wanted to sit down with republicans, and there was a caucus going on in the senate for months until the republicans finally said, to hell with the whole thing. so let's be factual about this. >> this isn't about politicians. this is about uprising in this country. >> this is about the politicians. >> there was a ground swell of opposition. >> excuse me. we met with many republicans. we talked with them. olympia snowe gave us a list of ten things she wanted done in the bill. he we did all ten. she voted in the committee for the bill and then on the floor against it. you cannot say we did not talk to republicans. it was republicans who had one word for this whole legislative process, which was nyet. we're not playing ball. we're not going to discuss it.

>> dr. emanuel, thinking forward now, you say a reasonable provision, this provision is not a huge part of the bill. the delay doesn't sort of undermine the whole thing. going forward, are there other provisions now that republicans and people who don't like the bill are going to say, you know what, if we can delay this, let's delay other parts of it. let's delay the implementation of the exchanges. let's delay the requirement that individuals have health care. >> i'm not a republican strategist. i do think from a policy standpoint -- >> what's the argument against arguing that? can the white house say, why is this appropriate to delay but not other measures that business finds burdensome or individuals find burdensome? >> i have to say this wasn't the most well-constructed part of the bill, and it's not the most essential part of the bill. i think we need to keep our eye on the exchanges. those are essential. getting them up and running effectively and efficiently is critical to expanding access to this country. getting that working and getting people to recognize that they're going to get subsidies, they're going to be able to get

insurance policies that they didn't know. look, i was just in colorado talking to a woman who had a recent diagnosis of cancer, and she was, said, well, obamacare never really applied to me. i pointed out, now you have a preexisting condition. your insurance company may not take you up again or give you a bill that is astronomical. whereas the exchange is going to be there, they can't take into account your preexisting condition, you might get a subsidy depending on your income, and it's a huge safety net for her. she hadn't realized that. that's the important place to focus so that all americans, regardless of whether they have a preexisting condition or not, have a way of getting insurance for themselves. that's the key. if you ask me, what would i focus on, that's what i think is the most important part of the legislation in terms of expanding the access. there are other really important parts of the legislation, which have already gone into effect, expanding coverage for kids on the parents' plan to age 26, trying to transform the delivery

system, and those things are going ahead whether the republicans like them or not, and the american public, it turns out, likes them. >> zeke just pointed out correctly he's not a republican strategist. >> i'm not a very good one. >> i'm working up to it. >> neither is carl although he just made a claim the other moment ago that this now took this off the table as a political issue. as far as i know, this is a one-year delay, which takes us into another election year in the middle of 2014. so is this off the table politically? will republicans not continue to stay on this issue heading into the midterm elections next year? >> listen, there are parts of this that are very popular that republicans would be well-served to be loudly in favor of, the coverage of preexisting ngs c conditioning, expanding access to health care, that's something republicans are for. it's the obama care the republicans are against. if president obama didn't have a

massive pr problem on his hands, he wouldn't be hiring celebrities and football stars to market the bill. >> it's not marketing. they're teaching. >> they're not marketing the bill. what they're doing is informing the american public about what the options are. it's an information campaign. you do have to tell the public what's available. they don't just get it out of the ether. and i would say that, you know, again, the republicans never had and have never actually put on the table a plausible plan for getting all americans covered, whether they have a preexisting condition or not. this is really the only plan, so-called obamacare, that actually had a viable option in washington for getting people covered whether they had cancer or heart disease or diabetes regardless -- and getting them a reasonable price on their insurance. the republicans never offered a comprehensive alternative that would contain health care costs and expand coverage. that's just the facts.

>> we're going to keep talking about this, including coming up in just a bit, david axelrod is going to weigh in on the health care situation. and we're watching the events in egypt, where the president there faces a big deadline. but there's another, thomas, big story overseas to talk about. >> where in the world is edward snowden? this caused a rift between the u.s. and hong kong. then it was the u.s. versus russia. now bolivia is in the mix, accusing the president of orchestrating a plot that threatened the life of the president. morales was forced to spend the night in vienna after his plane was rerouted to austria after being denied access over french and portuguese air space. it stemmed from a rumor that snowden had hitched a ride on the president's jet and was seeking asylum in south america. they're not commenting on reports that the obama administration prevented them from letting the plane pass over their borders. apparently, snowden was not on board, still waiting in a russian airport to see which

nation might take him in. there are still no takers, carl. >> two stories. one is the snowden opera, which is truly operatic, which is going to be put to music and be truly remarkable. the other is what snowden has done. regardless of how we think of him serving all aspects of our national interest, is he has finally caused a real debate in this country and abroad about the vacuum cleaning nation of our intelligence collection. it's an overdue debate. we've known most of what is in this program all along. it's been revealed previously in "usa today" and elsewhere. it didn't all come from snowden. he revealed some more. it's put the united states in the spotlight in terms of some of our policies that need examination. we need some thoughtful debate on how we do this. but the most important aspect is that so far, as far as we know, the program has not been abused

and safeguards are in place domestically. that's the important part. >> let me ask you a question about an analogy that's been occurring to me throughout this entire case. snowden -- and my focus on the about what's been revealed, the substance of it, and the debate about that is the central thing. he is, by his behavior, losing some amount of political support that he might otherwise have. if you think back to the pentagon papers case, which this is often analogized to. dan elsburg did what he did and stayed in the united states and faced the music. he was willing to be prosecuted for it. people fought it out here. does it not undermine snowden's moral case, again, not on the question of the substance on what we've learned, but his moral case that he's off running around the world rather than standing his ground as elsburg did in the case of vietnam. >> look, civil disobedience is just that, and elsburg was

willing to stand up for what he did though he did not go out front. he waited to be found out, if you remember, in the pentagon papers case, and the nixon white house went after him with all guns blazing. but i think you're right. indeed, this form of civil disobedience, he would have done better, perhaps for himself and for his case, as we're now seeing in this opera, to stay in the united states and say, i did this for this reason. at the same time, there's little question that he might well have gone to jail for a very long time. so it's a tough call if you're in his shoes, and i wouldn't say it's an easy call if you're in his shoes. we are seeing there's admirable aspects to what he's done. at the same time, he's got to face the music, and he's facing them in this odyssey. >> dr. emanuel, thanks for joining us. seize the day and courage. >> thank you very much.

is that a motto for philadelphia? >> exactly. ben franklin said it originally. thanks for joining us. >> gang, up next, nbc's richard engel is on the ground in cairo where egypt's president is defying the army's ultimatum to yield to protesters. also, "the washington post's" david ignatius. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. hi! i'm sandy, and after nine years of working at walmart, i know savings. and right now we've got everything you need for a great summer. this 5-piece dining set on clearance, save over $49! marco! polo! this metal frame pool on rollback, you save $80! woo! fire up the savings. this 4 burner grill on rollback, you save $11. how bout all these bikes on rollback? like this mongoose adult bike, you save over $20! get more summer for your money at walmart's super summer savings event going on right now at your local walmart. i tthan probablycare moreanyone else.and we've had this farm for 30 years. we raise black and red angus cattle.

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welcome back, everybody. 21 after the hour. live look at washington, d.c. gray skies there. joining us from washington, columnist for "the washington post," david ignatius. great to have you with us. we're going to dive in to talk about what's going on in egypt. the clock is ticking. 23 people reported dead after clashes there. the president mohamed morsi is defiant, vowing last night not to resign while vowing to protect his constitutional legitimacy with his life, if necessary. he's at odds with his own military, which has set this new deadline for a deal to come

today. if no agreement is reached, the army will sus pend the country's constitution and dissolve parliament. all this as hundreds of thousands descend on tahrir square, spelling out their message to morsi, as you see there, in lasers on building. joining us is chief foreign correspondent richard engel. richard, as you've seen with the protesters, there are the opponents of morsi, but then there is a popular force that support his presidency. is all of this coming to the boiling point at 11:00 a.m. eastern? >> reporter: it could be coming to a boiling point fairly soon. we've just been told the army is going to issue some kind of statement, hopefully a clarification, perhaps a decisive statement, in just about three hours. where we are right now is you have, again, in tahrir square, not hundreds of thousands, but several thousand protesters here who want morsi to step down. in other parts of the city, you have also relatively small demonstrations who are -- that are in support of morsi.

but you have this looming army deadline, which says that, unless this crisis is resolved very soon by -- within the next few hours, the army could intervene and take those steps you just mentioned, dissolving the parliament, suspending the constitution, and forming a temporary government of technocrats, which it says will mostly be civilians, to oversee a new constitution and then new elections. but we haven't seen anything so far that would indicate the army is going to actually do anything today. there's no tanks in the streets. there's no curfews. in other parts of the city, shops are open, businesses are functioning as normal. that could change in three or four hours, but so far we just have rising tension. and then there was that disturbing incident last night where 16, 20, 25 people were killed. the numbers are all over the place. they were supporters of president morsi who were gathered at a sit-in in front of

cairo's university, and they say they were attacked by hired thugs and by police, but even now the circumstances of that incident remain unclear. but they were definitely attacked by live ammunition. who exactly was responsible, we're not quite certain. >> richard, carl bernstein here. good morning. in terms of the interest of a stable middle east and the role of the muslim brotherhood and whether or not egypt is going to be a theocracy, what is the best outcome that can be hoped for toward that kind of stability? would it be with the muslim brotherhood out and a still democratic installation of a government? is such a thing possible? >> reporter: you're asking the fundamental question about

political islam. there are people saying the muslim brotherhood's 80-year experiment with political islam, because it's an old operation mostly operated as a clandestine group operating in the shadows, in its early days responsible for assassinations, attacks, and bombings. now it has risen to power, and for the last year, it has tried to use political islam while in government and so far hasn't been terribly successful. egypt has not been turkey. it has not been a successful economic powerhouse with a moderate islamic government. instead, the muslim brotherhood here has made aliliances with even more radical islamists, and many people feel they have been unleashed onto the streets and unleashed onto the mosques, and the society has become fairly repressive for women, for liberal groups, for feminists, and that's why people are protesting right now because they say enough is enough. if they don't act now, if three years the muslim brotherhood and

its radical allies will be even more entrenched. in places like the sinai, for example, have become bastions of terrorism right on israel's border. that's one argument. the other argument, which is the muslim brotherhood argument, which morsi was making very passionately last night on television, is that there is a political process. he was elected. he has legitimacy. and that if you remove it, the whole democratic experiment in this part of the world will be considered a failure, and that could lead to violence. and there is a deep concern that, if you try and remove morsi by force, the muslim brotherhood could go back to its roots, and we could see more violence here. it was a long answer. it's a big question. >> richard engel, who's going to be with us on msnbc and nbc all day as this unfolds. richard, stay safe. look forward to your reporting throughout the day. thank you. now, as we said before with us, david ignatius, a very experienced watcher of these types of things. we know president obama called president morsi and they had a

conversation. what do we know or suspect are the military to military communications going on between the united states and egypt at this point? which played such a big role last time when egypt faced this kind of crisis in the last regime. >> i know that general dempsey, our chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, has been in contact with top egyptian military officials over the last week, and there have been other extensive contacts. this is a very awkward situation for the united states. the u.s. would like to be able to remain neutral, not to declare sides. the obama administration has been very happy the u.s. isn't the issue in egypt. this is a battle between the different egyptian factions. this is becoming increasingly difficult to observers when i talk to what you're seeing on the streets of cairo really is a second revolutionary outpouring of protests. it's very hard to distinguish the anger against morsi and morsi's autocratic behavior from

the anger against hosni mubarak's similar behavior. in that case, the military sided with the protesters. in this case, it seems to be the same. i'd be very surprised , despite president obama's call to morsi to reassure him in a sense, i would be very surprised if the u.s. in the end didn't stand with the military, which is our closest ally in egypt. >> let's just take the next step in that only sis. what are the -- inside the administration thinking about this and what the various scenarios are that it imagined playing out and what the best case scenario is and what the worst case scenario is over the course of the next, say, six months. >> i think the best case scenario is one that president morsi actually made reference to in his very fiery speech last night. he said some had proposed a transitional arrangement where there would be early elections six months from now, possibly to replace him as president, but that would be up for grabs. there would be a kind of

national coalition government. you'd get that sort of patched together solution. he said some have proposed this, but the street has rejected it. in fact, he said, i reject it. short of that, we're likely to see -- the military is not likely to back down. we're likely to see the military seek some kind of transition. whether morsi will be in it or not, we don't know. i think the big fear for the united states is that bringing political islam into politics through the muslim brotherhood has been a big step forward. driving the islamist groups back underground so they're in this terrorist milieu, the way they were before, running from the law, in and out of prison, that puts egypt back ten years ago. i think a lot of american officials really hope that that isn't the outcome because they

know how dangerous it is. >> david ignatius in washington, thanks very much. again, we'll keep watching this story all morning. thomas, what else do we have coming up in a proverbial tease that i'm now asking you to do? is >> we have a lot coming up. white house adviser david axelrod is going to react to incidents on the president's plate from a hiccup in the health care law to major challenges on the health care stage. as richard engel told us, we expect something from egypt's army coming up in the 10:00 a.m. hour. some type of announcement what they plan to do on morsi. keep it here on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] this is bob, a regular guy with an irregular heartbeat. the usual, bob?

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we are inching closer and closer to the 4th of july weekend. it's a little gray, a little hazy over times square. that's going to be the case. we'll continue to see the chance of showers. it's very humid, very muggy. with some of these showers, they could produce heavier downpours as we have this moisture just streaming in off the gulf of mexico, especially down across the southeast, where we will see a good chance of flooding over the next few days with the possibility of three to four-plus inches of rain, especially in and around eastern tennessee, western carolinas, and right through atlanta over the next 48 hours. the panhandle of florida too most likely will see some

flooding as well. in the southwest, we are still talking about that huge area of high pressure in control. it's keeping the heat in place. we're looking at fresno to top out at 110 again today. bakersfield around 110. death valley around 128. each day temperatures have been dropping a degree or two, but there is really no major relief in sight for that area any time soon. today's forecast, we're going to see the heat in the southwest. really nice weather around the country up around 80 degrees or so. up the east coast, we will see scattered thunderstorms. tomorrow that rain up and down the east coast is actually going to push west, and we are looking at all the major cities to actually do pretty well with all the fireworks displays later on at night. up next, selling the 4th of july. bloomberg business week explains how it means big bucks for america's economic machine. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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for bringing us together. find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. it is that great american holiday july 4th eve. who better to talk about it than our bloomberg editor josh strangehill. latest issue covers an important topic, great american holiday, fireworks, hot dogs, beer. what is the big issue you're exploring regarding the great american holiday, fourth of july? >> these are businesses that are overlooked at all times. we take for granted beer and barbecues. >> i do not. >> i certainly don't take hot dogs for granted.

but we decided what better moment than to look at the state of these businesses? >> the economics of these holidays. >> who's driving them? we started with music, and the song of the summer is "get lucky" by -- >> def punk. >> yes, the famous french duo. what we looked at it is how they got to be the song of the summer. the motto is get it to as many people as quickly as possible. here they started a sleepy little facebook page, they put up a photo, and the internet started to take off. then they released two 15-second ads on "saturday night live" with nothing but instrumental music, no title, no nothing, and that's it. people started looping the ads on youtube. one loop has received more than a 250,000 views. then the media director put the music in a titanium case and started flying around the country to music writers, and

that was the only copy that existed. so this foment was created. when the album came out, it just sort of exploded. you have to have a good product. people have to hear it. but it's a very different model to the bieber model. >> it's not like daft punk isn't on the cover of "rolling stone." >> they are also on the cover of "rolling stone." >> can i speak as the only former rock critic on this panel? which i was for "the washington post." >> you're one of three, carl. >> really? that's pretty amazing. three of us? >> don't be looking at me. these two guys. >> i actually want to talk about hot dogs, though. i love daft punk. >> enough rock and roll. >> hot dogs are a $1.7 billion industry, and that's only supermarket hot dogs. the problem is it's also an industry in decline. usually, when a recession hits, hot dogs take off. they're down 3% in 2012. it's looking like a soft year for hot dogs in 2013.

and the problem is -- come on. the problem is beef cost. it's costing more and more to actually make hot dogs. many of us didn't think the ingredients in hot dogs cost that much to produce. >> or that there's any beef involved whatsoever. >> the only brand actually having a good year is nathan's, up 17%, which they naturally attribute to the superiority of their hot dogs. no hot dog brand gets better publicity, particularly around this time of year, than nathan's. >> stat man, i think you know the answer to this. what percentage of hot dogs consumed annually are consumed this week? >> i believe 150 million hot dogs in total are consumed on the fourth of july, which is enough to stretch new york to l.a. five times. >> what's the best hot dog state in america? >> john, that's tough. >> we've got to get in beer here. >> i'll tell you what the best named hot dog stand in america. weiner and still champion. >> my favorite is the second avenue deli. >> any decline due to sort of

health awareness? or does that have no impact here? >> i think it has some degree, but the fact is it's pricier than it used to be, and the market is really, really sensitive to packs of hot dog. >> what's going on with beer? >> this is a great segment. daft punk, hot dogs, and now we're moving on to beer. >> we could go all night. beer, we went to the exclusive long island distributor of budweiser, claire rhodes, on a good week they could move 400,000 cases of budweiser. they're selling 28 different kinds of budweiser. lemonrita, limerita. i didn't realize they'd turned into arizona iced tea, but they basically have. they have a lockdown on long island on all this stuff. the challenge is rain. if it rains, people don't buy beer. if there's good weather on the 4th of july, which is their best

day, they can move 400,000 cases. if it's bad weather, they can have as low as half that. >> does the day of the week that 4th of july falls on have an impact? people make it a long weekend? >> it has no impact. people are indiscriminate in their desire to chug bud on the 4th of july. it's all about weather. >> we've got to get to fireworks. are any fireworks made in this country? >> very, very few. what happens with fireworks -- we went to newcastle in western pennsylvania, which is trademarked as the fireworks capital of america. almost everything is brought in from china, but there's a shortage of labor to put together the fireworks in china. what these guys do, they're in a logistics business. they provide all the fireworks to all of these towns across america. july 4th is clearly the biggest day of the year. the challenge for them is they have to employ lots of technicians to set this stuff up. these family-run businesses in western pennsylvania, they have upwards of 1,300 people who are sort of licensed technicians who they train who usually know the fire commissioner and the police commissioner in the town. they can't get enough people to

do the job. it sounds like a pretty cool job to me setting off a ton of fireworks in towns across america, but there's a labor shortage here. >> josh, latest issue of bloomberg business week is available now. everything you want to know about fireworks, hot dogs, beer, and great music-ish. >> why is that not on the cover? why is the 4th of july thing not on the cover? >> we had a challenge with the cover. if you go to the toc, you can see we tried. >> term of art. >> is table of contents. we do things that didn't make it. you can see. we tried it. the bp thing in the gulf is relatively dull. >> compared to this story. >> do you all have a rock critic? >> i used to be a rock critic. >> there really are three of us up here. that's amazing. i might come back. i'm ready. let's talk about daft punk. >> happy holidays. the all england club is decidedly unamerican this time

around. why the top u.s. tennis players are out early on in wimbledon. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. i'm the next american success story. working for a company where over seventy-five percent of store management started as hourly associates. there's opportunity here. i can use walmart's education benefits to get a degree, maybe work in it, or be an engineer, helping walmart conserve energy. even today, when our store does well, i earn quarterly bonuses. when people look at me, i hope they see someone working their way up. vo: opportunity, that's the real walmart.

the summer of love continues here on "morning joe." what we love here? wimbledon. joining us now, "sports illustrated" and the tennis chal's john werth heim from the all-england place we all so love. lots of americans losing. tell us why we should care and why it's like snap chat. they were here and they weren't. we should care. i always get the rust belt answer. it's relentless globalization they're playing tennis everywhere and it sands to reason our market share is going to dwindle. many tom brady, great quarterback, there are now little kids all over the world throwing spirals. fallout from globalization is my simple answer. >> preview what's coming up based on who's left. who are the favorites and people

watching on both the men's and ladies side? >> the men's side we still have nov novak joy djokovic. ver florida gulf coast? the women's draw is just, lover wins is going to win a grand slam for the first time. williams out, share poe vae out. it's a tennis channel brackets have been shred multiple times. the women's draw will feature a first time winner. >> nicolle wallace, it's not just the american who have fallen. it's a lot of the greats. i'm sad to read about what many people are describing as the demise of roger federer. do you think he's fallen out of the top four in the world and this is sort of the twilight of his career? >> we all hope not. realistically, he's 31, he's going to be 32. he's going to be a dad.

in tennis years, he's up there. it only takes seven matches to win another one. if he gets hot the u.s. open, he's not the player he once won, he's not winning three majors a year. he's still top five in the world. give him time. he still plays a light game that will isn't particularly physically taxing. he went out very early the first time this had happened in a decade. you hope he's back. >> john heilemann here. from the standpoint of most casual fans like nicolle, but a lot of people, with the absence of the big names, people lose interest as a television matter. on the ground wimbledon, has the air come out of the balloon and people aren't excited anymore or are they such big tennis fans it doesn't haas on the pitch, as it were. >> it's great question. globally, all these big worlds.

what's going on within this crazy wacky wimbledon. andy murray the great british hope is still in the draw. that's completely cannibalized the story locally. he won olympic gold medal here. he won the u.s. open. he's already won a major title. as long as he's in the draw, locally that's the story. it's interesting how different the story is on the ground when you look at how this is being depicted globally. >> play out the schedule for the rest of the week. one of the big matches going forward for today and through the weekend. >> andy murray plays today stron court. novak, as well and then the women's semis are tomorrow. everybody sort of,ing especially when federer and nadal got out, everybody looked at the murray as the final. the ratings are not going to go sky high with the players that

are left. >> nicolle? >> most of the greats we talked about being out had their big break at a tournament like in in an up set like this. in another way, this could be the launch of the next maria sharapova. all of them so far this morning had a big breakout morning in a grand slam tournament like this. can you predict one on the women's side? >> that's a great way of thinking about it. radwanska, if this it is her big break through, we're not going to reflect on this tournament as her launching pad. on the men's side, four players have dominated the sport and have sucked a lot of the oxygen. if this enables another player to break through the way boris becker did 20 years ago, this could be the take away.

on the one hand, there is there are a lot of no names. >> besides strawberries and cream, what have you had that you liked? >> this is a great tournament. it is not a culinary tournament. this is not the french open. i've had banger. you said 160 million hot dogs. this will not include the bangers being sold behind me. this is the only sporting event where you can get smashed peas without irony. wimbledon is great. everybody should come visit but do not come for the food. >> no particularly good avocado roll or fajitas or anything like that? >> no, we have a lot of pastries and sausage. sneak in your popcorn. >> enjoy the tennis if not the food. thanks for joining us. >> hours from now, the egyptian

military is poised to intervene. will the newly elected president be forced from office? that's the biggest question. "morning joe" coming back with all of that and more in just a moment. engineer: rolling...take 13. geico's defensive driver, good student and multi-policy discounts could save you hundreds of dollus. engineer: uh geico's discounts could save you hundreds of "doll-ars." it sounds like you're saying "dollus." dollus. engineeif you could accentuate the "r" sound of "dollars." are...are... are... engineer: are... arrrrrr. arrrrr. someone bring me an eye patch, i feel like a bloomin' pirate.

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good morning. as the mika would say, it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. you're looking at a live look at new york city. back on set, john heilemann, thomas roberts, nicolle wallace and leigh gallagher and "the washington post's" ez za cline. president obama's health care law has suffered the major setback it's seen, the administration announcing late yesterday it is going to delay the mandate that requires larger companies to insure workers. republicans are saying its evidence that the policy is bad for business. we're going to talk in a little bit to david axelrod, president obama advisor to get his take on what happens next and what this means. also in egypt. we're just hours away from the deadline set by the military for president mohamed morsi to either fix the situation, the

protests in the street or to step aside. he's says he's not going anywhere. we'll have a live report on that in a moment. also overseas, our third big story, the saga of edward snowden continues. in bolivia, they're an using the united states of basically orchestrating a plot to kidnap that country's president as he tried to fly home. we'll have details of the rumors that his asylum bid forced the plane of bolivia's leader to make an unscheduled lead northeasterly europe. all of that. . first though we'll deal with the health care situation on obama care. with that, thomas roberts. >> so the white house now talking about slowing down the implementation of this key point of obama care, the obama administration now offering a one-year delay to employers who are supposed to start offering health insurance to, woulders next year. this law required businesses with more than 50 workers, to provide coverage or face this $2,000 fine. it's one of the most controversial aspects of the

law. many small business owners say it's too burdensome and complicated to comply. you can imagine that republican reaction was swift. it was jubilant about it this. congressional can leaders and critics of the president called the delayed plan a train wreck. grover norquist has quoted as saying ouch. this is the president saying my plan sucks. full knew what was in it, you wouldn't like it. and gubernatorial candidate and state attorney general ken uch nellie said if you talk to any health professional, they can tell you the early warning signs of systemic failure. the announcement officials are delaying implementation of the president's unprecedented government intrusion into our health care system is further proof that the law rushed through the legislative process is fundamentally flawed. obviously republicans are glad to hear there's a delay. this gets back to the waiver

talk. but other people are saying this is a big, big swift moving piece of legislation. it needs to take time to be implemented. >> it leaves you wondering why they didn't think of this in the first place, why they didn't have any sense these mandates would cripple the recovery they're relying upon to you bring jobs back. >> ez za you write aggressively about the provision. you don't think this provision should ever be implemented, right? >> right. back in '09 i called this the worse idea in the bill. this it is not a very big part of the bill. i want to get through numbers here. what this says is if you're an employer over 50 employees and you don't offer health insurance your employees can afford, you're going to pay a per employee penalty about 2,000 bucks over every employee over your 30th employee. here's how many employers it

affected. we've got about 6 million employers in this country. about 210,000 of them are over 50 employees. aware talking about the minority of them. 95% of them already offer health insurance so they don't have an issue under this part of the bill. you're really dealing with about 10,000 employers we expect to have an issue. some almost cut back on hours or jobs which will be very bad for workers. that's the group you're dealing with . about 1 to 2% of american workers. this is an important thing for that group. the reason i don't like it can the way it is constructed by creating thissing 50-worker cutoff. it creates for employers around the cutoff to don't offer an insurance to cut back from 50. this is a very small part of the bill. >> your analysis of why this provision is bad is the same as like what the national

federation of independent business would be. that it burdens these -- you're right. it's a relatively small number, but it burdens them and say things like let's cut back hours and not hire people who need insurance, right? >> there are a bunch of pols that he would not like that they would. another way you can do this same idea is the house bill had a requirement that if you were above a certain size, you had to be spending a certain amount of payroll on health insurance. what that does is it doesn't create any distinction between how many workers you have or don't have or distinction between full and part time workers and keeps some of the bad effects from happening. this was actually a version of the mandate business liked better. senate democrat aides were absolutely puzzled. it was coming through olympia snow and other people. they didn't seem to understand why business liked doing it this

way. they said we'll do it this way, then business turned against it because they don't want any kind of employer mandate. i wouldn't say i'm all for businesses on this one. you can do this in ways that don't have the disincentive effects. the way they did it is not a good way but not a very big part of the bill. i'm perfectly happy to see it delayed because i don't think it will hurt the bill and i think it will be better. >> the other big story overseas, the deadline. egypt. >> we watch the countdown clock 0 to go. 11:00 a.m. is when morsi was given the deadline. we have the count now at 23 people dead. president morsi is vowing not to resign while pledging to protect his constitutional legitimacy with his life if necessary. he's at odds with his own own military which set the new deadline for a deal today. if no agreement is reached, the country's also suspend the

country's constitution and dissolve parliament as hundreds of thousands descend once more on tahrir square spelling out their message to morsi in lasers. eamon mole ha dean is live in cairo this morning. we're watching the clock click down to 11:00 a.m. roughly. it seems as if morsi has thrown down the gauntlet saying he's not going anywhere. >> in fact, he's raised the stakes. yesterday some thought maybe he would offer an olive branch to the opposition. none of that happened in the message he gave about 45 minutes in which he said he had constitutional legitimacy and that what was really at stake was not a matter of changing country's is leadership but derailing its path to democracy and undermining the constitutionality egypt had managed to build over the course of the last year. he kept saying legitimacy over and over again. his supporters were rallying behind the message, the argument

they've been making all along and they've been going to the streets to gain momentum to try and show that president morsi still does enjoy popularity and that overthrowing him or removing him from power would undermine egypt's democracy and turn this into a military style kourp. opponents have gone to tahrir square and say the clock is ticking on his term in office and they want the military to intervene. if he does not step down, they want him to mandatory force him out of office. it is a showdown playing politically southwest on the streets. both opponents and supporters have begun to clash in certain parts of cairo and elsewhere in the country. the big concern is in the coming hours it, cog get very violent. >> mark pal per rin here. you've got the president. you've got the military and the protesters in the seat. the administration in the united states is trying to stay out of it if they can talking about how this is up to the people to

decide. how much call is there in egypt from any of those three groups for the united states to weigh in, to take a fellow at least suggesting what they'd like to see the outcome be? be. >> it's certainly a double-edged sword and a catch 22 for the u.s. over the course of the last year, many of the opponents of president mohamed morsi felt that the united states had been warming up to the muslim brotherhood that they had not been putting more pressure on the muslim brotherhood to accept more democratic reforms and to allow for political minorities to be at the political table. however, at the same time, the united states has lost a lot of credibility here over the last several years after supporting people like president hosni mubarak, the previous president. this is what makes it a challenge for those who on one hand call for the u.s. to add more influence or exert more influence but at the same time asking it to stay out of egyptian internal affairs.

there's no doubt that the u.s. through military channels still has tremendous influence on the egyptian military. that could be pivotal in the coming hours, as well. >> thank you very much. we'll be back with you throughout the day. appreciate it. >> it's interesting though that the morse sill put these calls to leave, mubarak has said morsi should leave, that the people have spoken. we saw the helicopters flying over the crowds with the towing of the egyptian flags, that was a signal to all the people that the military had given this deadline, that they were intervening. these people know that their voices were heard to get rid of mubarak who was in power for 30 years. now that the military has gimp the signal, these people he will expect something big to happen. most likely the same thing that happened when they got rid of mubarak. what are the alternatives? you know, and who's waking up in d.c. with the egyptian folder today? >> very tough for the president

because morsi has been elected. how does a white house balance siding with the protesters vz siding with the military versus siding with the duly elected president. >> it's a balancing act. and i worked for president bush when hamas won large numbers of elections and president bush was so committed to the freedom agenda and really i think understood that this is whatever democratic elections can results in. the challenge here is the white house now seems to be juggling all these hot spots in a way that doesn't give much confidence not only in the region but here at home. i think americans are wondering what is going on. >> be more specific. in the case of egypt, the president's basically saying this is up to the egyptian people. should he be calling for the removal of morsi? >> the president has to be consistent. where he said that mubarak should step aside, it was because the will of the people

would have had that will be elected. >> mubarak hasn't been elected. >> a white house always has to balance diplomacy and the mood on the street and the mood on the street now is, as you just said, has shifted dramatically. now the mood is to overthrow another of its leaders. this time a democratically elected one and whatever we think of the muslim brotherhood and the way this wave is going in the middle east, this is the result of a democratic election. >> let's talk about your former boss quickly because we have former president george w. bush weighing in on the situation in egypt yesterday. >> what you're seeing is an evolution. democracies take awhile to take root. look at our own country, it took 100 years to get rid of slavery. democracy requires a patient hand. democracy requires the building of civil society and i believe democracy will ultimately take hold, and i hope that people who live in comfortable nations are

helping some of these young egyptians understand how to build political parties and how to claim their rightful place in the political process. they had been snuffed out of the political process and all of a sudden, they've been now given a chance, and i find it instructive that the current leaders campaigned on a platform and now the egyptian people are trying to hold them to account. >> accountability, a good thing. what's the best outcome in terms of stability do you think at this point? just hours away from the military has set. >> that's the big question. there doesn't seem to be one that promises stability. the economy, there's fuel shortages, electricity shortages. the currency is a mess. there's no guarantee whether morsi stays or someone else comes in, that's going to be instantly cleared. on the other hand, there could be some sort off backlash on the other side if morsi is ousted. it's very, very unstable, very unclear and also not clear what

the opposition -- what the the content would be if in fact they're victorious. what is the next phase? this is a movement that came to be so swiftly, just a couple months ago, and with a heft that has surprised everybody. the mobilization has been powerful but the actual, the next step, what happens after is not really clear one way or the other. >> coming up on "morning joe," the very talented usher is going to be here. we'll talk about his new acting role opposite the great robert de niro. up next, another multifacetted superstar, david axelrod joins the discussion. but first, dylan dreyer with a check on the forecast. >> and then there's dylan dreyer. we are going to see moisture stream up from the gulf of mexico. some heavy rain falling across the panhandle of florida into the southeast. scattered showers still possible in the northeast although most of the heavy rain, the 3 to 5 inches of rain over the next 48

hours will fall nearly atlanta into the panhandle of florida. the heat is still on in the southwest with excessive heat warnings still in effect. temperatures have been cooling each day but we are not looking at major relief anytime soon. the afternoon, we'll keep an eye out for thunderstorms on the east coast. then for the fourth of july showers and storms try to push into the ohio river valley. most of the major cities on the east coast enjoying nice weather for the fourth of july. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. "i'm part of an american success story," "that starts with one of the world's most advanced distribution systems,"

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city of the big shoulders, the former senior advisor to president obama, the august director of the university of chicago's institute of politics and an msnbc contributor, david axelrod. david, welcome back to "morning joe." >> hey, good to be with you. the hope in crosby of moderators here. >> want to talk to you about all the big stories including the health care decision that the administration made to delay implementation of the provision that does not apply to all that many businesses or employers. republicans are saying that this shows the administration does not have confidence in the law. what would you say the decision

means substantively, what would you say it means politically? >> first of all, i'd say that a lot of those republicans, all those republicans were very quiet when, for example, california came in with its rates on the new exchange that they're going to set up and they came in at about half of what had been predicted. so the rates are far lower than people originally forecast. that was a great triumph for the affordable care act and there was a deafening silence from the critics of the program, and that's the way it's going to be. one of the great obstacles here is that there are a lot of folks who want to see this fail and are eager to jump on these kinds of stories. i think that you know, the nature of these programs, the history of these programs, big social perhaps is that they come online at fits and starts. there are bumps in the road. you have to make adjustments along the way. ultimately when history looks back at them, we say that was the right thing to do. i think that's the way it's

going to be with the affordable care act. >> elaborate on that last point. you're right. big social legislation usually has flaws and then it gets fixed over time because they -- the things get passed usually with large bipartisan majorities and both sides have skin in the game. you get changes going down the line. you have a republican party that largely believes the law is illegitimate and doesn't want to fix it because it still wants to campaign against it so for the purposes of making it work over the long run, what kind of bind does that put the administration in? how do you solve that rid? >> i think that it's going to be -- it's going to be uneven in its application and successes based on cooperation in the states. i mentioned california before. california is all-in. obviously a very large say the. new york's all-in, a very large state. we've seen washington and oregon and colorado and other states that are cooperating and want this to be successful.

we've seen great strides forward. what's going to happen is this program's going to do very well in those states initially and i think in plays like texas ar a quarter of the people are uninsured, in florida where near a little quart of the people are uninsured residents will begin asking why are they getting such a good deal and we're not. you're going to see ultimately all the states come on and we'll move forward. you're right, jon. it's more difficult because of this determined opposition. mitch mcconnell has been leading the charge. as you guys know, he is all about the tea party these days because he's worried about a primary within his own party, hired rand paul's campaign manager and now he can't be more active enough in trying to scuttle the affordable care act. these are obstacles that other programs haven't faced. >> i'm going to turn you over to nicolle wallace in i an second. reaffirm that the president's original intention he's

confident it's going to happen that the affordable care act will not only cover more people but in the long run will be good for the american economy. >> well, absolutely. it's because ultimately the goal is to reduce costs. overall costs to the economy and costs to consumers. what we've seen in the last few years costs have begun to come down as providers begin to rationalize operations, look for more efficient ways to deliver care, more effective ways to deliver care, reducing hospital infection rates, for example. and that ultimately is going to pay a great dividend to the economy and to the consumer. >> nicolle, have at it. >> i'm not sure how you're still standing after that brutal questioning. but i have to wonder if this is all going. >> i'm sitting. >> as planned. i'm not sure why you're out on july 3rd talking to us instead of warming up your barbecue. let me just ask you, you're one of the smartest mindsen 0 your side of the aisle.

we can agree to disagree about the substance. but how do you deal with the optics of a law that really sparked a movement on the right, created the tea party, and now the optics certainly would suggest that your former boss is concerned enough about the impact on business to delay this piece of the law that was very unpopular with business. >> well, on your second point, it behooves the administration to listen to stakeholders where there are concerns and questions 0 work through those questions. i'm not concerned about that that. on the overall, i was in the white house when the president made the decision 0 go forward. there was no illusion about the fact that it was going to be very, very difficult politically, that the more expedient path would be to pass by health reform and not take it on because seven presidents had tried. seven had had failed. 65 years of history. we knew that it was going to be

very hard. and his view was, look, the system's imploding. the inflation and health care cost is going on unabated. it's ultimately going to collapse not just the government but families and businesses. if we don't do something about it, we're -- we are negligent as leaders. and so yes, we knew the optics were not going to be good along the way that, there were going to be political burdens. yet he took it on anyway. i'm proud of him for doing it. one other point i would make is, and we're all guilty of this, we tend to judge these things along the way. every day in washington's election day. we tend to judge these things on the basis of what's happening at that moment. his view is that we ought to plow forward, make this can work, and we're going to look back at it and it's going to be our proudest accomplishment. but it's going to take time. if you're worried about optics at any given moment, you're not

going to accomplish very much in public office. >> speaking of optics, nicole you wanted to steal. >> get the camera back on her for a follow-up. hold on. >> widen out. >> david, did you guys or do you know if the white house heard from any democrats. you said you heard from business. did you hear from any democrats anxious about running with this tag to them in the midterms? >> in the midterm elections? i don't know because i'm not sitting in the white house right now. but you know, look, i think that democrats and supporters of this program can make a very strong case and the case ought to include, nicole, what is the republican alternative? everybody recognizes that there are major problems in the health care system. i mentioned the great inflation and costs. already the health care, the affordable care act has done away with lifetime caps on

insurance, has made sure kids under 26 can be insured by their parents, increased preventive care for seniors and so on. everybody agrees those are good things. are we going to roll those things back? what is the alternative on the republican side to deal with what everybody recognizes is a serious problem? i think that was the flaw that we saw in 2012. there was no answer to that question. i would suggest to your party that they need to work on that. they need to work on what they're for and not just what they're against. >> david, this is thomas. there's so many connective tissue triggers in how the affordable care act is going to work. you bring up california. and that's a positive direction there. but because of the mandate being pushed off the employer mandate to 2015, should we anticipate that health care exchanges in the states that their timeline is going to be pushed and bounced around because we're seeing this fluctuation of the pan date and because you know, some states are on board and

others really aren't? is health care exchange the next big issue? >> i see no indication of that, thauls. my sense is that those are moving forward. a pace, yes it's more difficult in the states that aren't cooperating because the federal government is having to set up those exchanges. ultimately what people will see are transparent marketplaces where they can comparison shop and get insurance at the best price available, and that is going to be positive. we saw in oregon a great development, which was the companies posted their prices and a couple of insurance companies saw what competitors were doing and asked to refile and lower their rates. that's how it should work. is it going to be smooth? no, it won't be smooth. i think everybody agrees it's not going to be smooth and particularly difficult in those states where the states have taken a position against it. but i see no indication that the exchange are going to be can

delayed. >> leigh gallagher here. do you think this was a smart political move to remove this issue from the table in advance of the midterm elections? >> well, i think it was less motivated by the midterm elections than a concern that this thing work properly. and as i said to nicolle, i do think it makes sense to listen to stakeholders to listen to concerns to work these issues through and not to force them if you think that you're not ready or it's not ready to move forward as has been pointed out repeatedly. this applies to a very small piece of the program. ezra made that point very well. why not back off, take a look at it, see if it can be done in a more efficient, eb way that makes the businesses affected more comfortable. and if it takes an extra year to do that, that's a smart thing to do. >> wouldn't it be better for americans and business people to

understand this, to have someone come out and explain it and take questions rather than have this policy change be announced by two blog posts? >> well, i'm sure there will be a lot of discussion about it, mark. and particularly with the affected businesses and the groups that represent them. so yeah, i mean i think you make a good point. given the nature of these things, i don't know exactly what the mechanism for doing that would be. i think communicating through the business organizations is probably one effective way to do it, but you know, i don't have any great dispute with your premise. >> david, in your new svelte state, what's your favorite chicago hot dog? >> i knew you were going to ask that question. that's my question. it's the fourth of july. >> they mind melded on the set, david. >> i like the -- they always do. it's like they can finish each other's sentences.

it's unbelievable. >> mustard's last stand? >> i love the grilled hot dogs at wrigley field. those are the best. that's about the best thing that's going on at wrigley field right now, but i lav the dogs. >> david axelrod, happy fourth of july. thank you for joining us. >> good to be with you. >> coming up, france looks to suspend trade talks with the nunts response to the obama administration's eavesdropping on european allies. today's business headlines with kelly evans of cnbc coming up next here on "morning joe." also, look at this, best selling recording artist usher is going to join us next ahead when "morning joe" comes right back. with the spark cash card from capital one... boris earns unlimited rewards for his small business. can i get the smith contract, please? thank you. that's three new paper shredders.

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35 minutes after the hour. look at this little deluge before july 4th in washington. kind of raining. om mus looking there. not pretty. hopefully, pack an umbrella and hopefully, wall street will be a little bit better. business before the bell with can kelly evans. what is the latest job indicator? >> i was going to say, we're getting a deluge of numbers on the jobs report ahead of the big one on friday. indications are pretty good at

this point. we got the private sector read from adp, an increase of 188,000 for the month. rim tab's as survey was 182,000. that was the highest since last november. the danger always becomes if markets start to expect a pickup for the next couple sessions and don't get it, they'll be pretty disappointed. it's quiet here because of the holiday. i don't know if you just saw the headlines on what's happening with france and the trade talks. the eu/us bilateral trade pact is one of the biggest trade deals attempted, would be if we could get this thing passed. france has stood in the way recently with regard to moving forward concerned about protection for digital and film industries. now they've come out and said they want another delay in the negotiating process because of the allegations about the u.s. spying on its counter parties across the atlantic. it's not just that the causing some concern back here this

morning. portuguese bond yields over 8% amid signs that government could the collapse bringing the eu concern. trade risk, the contagion risk back to the fore. welly evans, thanks so much. happy holidays to you. >> you. >> up next he has four number one albums, serves as a judge on "the voice" and he's acting in a new film. usher is here to make us all feel a little bit worse about ourselves. coming up on "morning joe." stick around. vo: traveling you definitely end up meeting a lot more people but

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welcome back, everybody. here with us now eight-time grammy winner usher who put together the production for macy's fourth of july fireworks tomorrow airing on nbc, the first time he will they have invited a guest curator to create a guest sound track of the show. you picked out the music and the fire works that go along with the show? >> yeah, i mean, i'm kind of getting accustomed to this new thing. i've been recognized as an entertainer, but now curator, why not. >> you're a tastemaker. >> yeah, man. but yeah, every aspect of it from the music to the synchronization of music and fireworks in the sky. >> how hard was that? >> well, it was pretty difficult but a lot of pun. >> how do you practice that? >> on someone else's dime. how do you prepare this? many years have gone into my creative vision as an artist working with light anchorgraphy. as long as the fire works were

able to kind of dance to the music, then you have it. >> were you working with actual fireworks in a studio watching it on a screen? >> a lot of it was computer generated to give me a concept of what i wanted to do. from there i came up with other ideas. then we own the out to, what you're seeing right now, we went out to the desert and began to fire off a few things. >> now the play list in and of itself, does it feature some good usher songs? >> oh, yeah. of course. >> but do you spread the love? are there other people include sfd. >> of course. i guess admiration for art and culture is really what kind of drove me to do this. not only my own music but a lot of times, for instance, russell simmons in terms of cure rating an experience through hip-hop or whatever it might be and a lifestyle. >> tastemaker. >> curator. >> for sure. >> for me, here was an opportunity for me to show a different side of what i do.

and creatively artistically articulate myself in a different way. >> are you a big fireworks man in general? >> when i blow things up at home, i'm not a pyromaniac. every year i try to have a little bit of fireworks, bottle rockets in the backyard. it's -- this kind of trumps that. >> you certainly brought fireworks to the voice". this side of the table, we're voice watchers. did you guys watch "the voice"? >> i've got c-span on all the time. >> you were a supporter, yes? >> huge supporter. >> she makes it to the finals. >> somebody has to shut blake sheldon down. >> i thought it was going to be you. i thought it should have been you. i thought her finale performances were unbelievable. you guys became buddies. that was one of the coolest things to watch. >> i'm featuring her in the show. >> blake and miranda, their rendition of america, i put it

in the show. >> you had a little bit of a r bromance. >> we're cool. plaintiff bs, we have a good time. you no he what i mean? but i learned a lot about the show, looking forward to coming back season 6. i have an idea of how it works now. >> season five you're going to take a break because you have a film project that you're working on. >> i want to talk about that. >> robert de niro is involved. >> sugar ray leonard. >> yeah. >> you? >> yeah. >> tell us about that. >> he's charismatic. are you up to that? >> think i can handle it. >> the movie is about roberto duran and the rivalry. >> hands of stone is the name of it. and yes, edgar ramirez is playing roberto duran. and you've heard about the story many, many years. this is definitely one i think that supreme remembered in

boxing history. the no mas fight i think defined not only who sugar ray was and also duran as a boxer. you see how him go through the story of how he becomes through he is. through his hardships, you can identify with that. great boxing movies are all about a transform participation. >> you are an athletic kind of. >> if i wasn't, i became. >> move around. i heard you have to lose 25 more pounds. >> from here i'm in a good space now. but i'm definitely shedding a little bit. he was 146 pounds. and 25 at the time. i'm 28. psych. no, i'm 34. >> what are usher's weight loss regime? what are you going to do? >> a lot of it is work. some diet. i've tried a vegan diet, a few different things. but really just kind of the regimented boxing schedule every day is shedding a lot of pounds. >> where is that going to come

from? i don't see a lot of excess? >> i'm hiding it somewhere in here. >> how much more do you have to lose from here? >> i think i'm going to lose probably about another ten pounds. >> in your life, have you spent time with sugar ray? >> yes, i have, out in los angeles, we went do an exhibition. we talked. i read his book, which is incredible. "the big fight," tells you a lot about who he is and while the story isn't necessarily about sugar ray leonard, as i said, he played a very significant part of the development of who duran would become. you know, both good and bad. you know, one beating him the first time and in the second no mas fight that went down in history as a boxer, if you know much about boxing to make him quit in the ring. it was kind of a defining moment for sugar rail. >> real quickly, while we've got you here, we talk about you finding michelle, crafting her. but a lot of people recognize the fact that you brought bieber to us. >> yeah. >> are you paying attention to

him lately and where his career is going, the headlines he's making and do you think he's being treated unfairly with all the press attention? he's a young kid with a lot in front of him. >> here's the unfortunate part about media. you can only believe half of what you hear and none of what you see. and i guess we all in some way go through transition in life. and be it musical, you know, outlet, i think all of it kind of comes out in the music. what you see is is a career. unfortunately, a camera noing it. he's living his life in front of a camera, are but that's the price that you do pay and unfortunately everyone else's. >> pam: is there. can you defend each and every one of them? no, you can't. but he also is a young man becoming an artist before our eyes. >> it's great to have you here. thank you. what do you normally weighing? >> when i'm no not shedding i'm

normally 173. >> usher, thanks so much. great to have you here. great job on the voice." >> by next year i'll be back. next season i'll be backing >> take down blake. >> take him down. you can watch macy's fourth of july fireworks spectacular tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. eastern. usher, thanks again. >> we'll be on on fourth of july? >> correct. >> hard to tell. >> thinking about making it july 5th but -- >> curator, your new title. >> curator. >> thanks. >> love it. i think she tried to kill us. [ sighs ] are you kidding me? no, it's only 15 calories. [ male announcer ] with reddi wip,

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the injuries to the back of the defendant's head, are they consistent with having been repeatedly slammed into a concrete surface? >> no. >> why not? >> because if you look at the injuries, they are so minor that to me, the word "slam" imapplies great force. and this, the resultant injuries are not great force. >> that was at jacksonville medical examiner testifying

yesterday about the injuries george zimmerman said that he sustained the night trayvon martin was shot and killed. joining us now from los angeles, nbc legal analyst lisa bloom. talk about that testimony, how important it was and where we pick up today. >> definitely a strong witness for the prosecution. and she fits in with all of their witness who are brought to court to show inconsistencies in george zimmerman's stories. parts of his story that don't match-up with the hard cold evidence. she's saying look, he says his head was slammed on the concrete over and over again. yet, he only has two very small cuts on the back of his head. it doesn't fit. >> where do we go today? >> today, you know, we really don't know. my expectation is more law enforcement witnesses, the medical xer who did the autopsy on martin and trayvon martin's family members are the key witness who's remain for the prosecution. as to the order, we just don't know. >> when we talk about family

members, do we know if sybrina fulton or tracy martin are on the list? a lot of people would like to hear most like little from sybrina. >> if i were prosecuting this case, i would put her on last expecting her to be a powerful, emotional witness. one of the most important things she can talk about are the screams on the 911 call. she's already identified to law enforcement those are the screams of trayvon martin. >> explain real quickly with the holiday week where we go with the trial. >> uh-huh. we have court all day today. and we'll be covering it all day today on msnbc. tomorrow is a day off for the jurors. it will be dark. friday court resumes and then back again on monday. >> all right, lisa bloom, we'll be watching today together. thanks so much. up next, if anythinging what have we learned today? back in a moment.

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. >> oh my goodness. that's so fake. welcome back. just a little bit of time left to talk about what we learned today, thomas roberts? >> i learned i have some interest in nicolle wallace to co-author a book for republican women, a beginner's guide to female reproduction. >> futures guide. >> i laerped that usher is every bit as adorable and charming. >> he's a cool guy. >> as he is smart and talented. >> leigh. >> it's a holiday here but not in egypt. we have a live shot of tahrir square. no holiday there. things are developing. it's important to stay on top of it and keep tabs and watch. >> i learned josh makes an incredible claim which is when it rains, no one drinks beer. that seems implausible. totally different from my house. >> i learned david axelrod is a

hot dog expert. happy july 3rd and 4th to those of you watching. john heilemann, if it's way too early, what time is it? >> time for "morning joe." it's the daily rundown. go, go, go. >> we'll pick it up from there. good morning to you from sanford is, florida, just outside the courtroom where george zimmerman is on trial. it is wednesday, july 3rd, 2013. this is "the daily rundown." i'm craig melvin in for chuck todd today. right now, you are looking live inside the courtroom where we expect the jury to be brought in momentarily. right now, the attorneys are wrapping up a hearing on whether george zimmerman's school studies in criminal justice can be brought up in court. prosecutors are hoping to show thatl