that is also being echoed by other members of the muslim brotherhood. we are getting initial reports that the egyptian military has deployed in various parts of cairo. that's not necessarily new, but it depends which parts of the city they're in. the military has been protecting many of the key installations across the city and country for the past several weeks really. to see how close and how much they penetrate into the city, how close they get to crowds like this, that is going to be very telling. certainly in a little bit we'll have more sense of how far the military is now in charge of the country. keep in mind, this is very similar to what happened back in 2011. the military deployed first. there was no clear communication as to what was actually happening until that announcement came from at the time the vice president of the country. it wasn't even from the president himself. we don't fknow wether or not that's going to happen.

we're expecting some type of communication from the military later this evening. from the assessment i was just given by reading this statement, it does seem at least from the way they're describing it that a military coup is underway. >> eamon, what have you seen behind you throughout the last couple hours? have you seen any indication of military presence or increased military presence? >> reporter: well, in areas like tahrir square it's been nothing but a scene of jubilation and happiness. the picture speaks for itself. the fireworks, the lasers, the dancing. the people here feel they're on the cusp of achieving what they want, which is another shot at a genuine democracy. that's very different from the scene just a few miles away where supporters of the muslim brotherhood and president morsi have also gathered with senior leaders of that organization. they are describing this as a military coup, as an attack on democracy, as an attack on the legitimacy of a country's constitution, and it is setting

egypt on a very dangerous course going forward. so you can see that this country is extremely divided at this stage. that is why the role of the military is going to be very critical in the coming hours. the deployment of the military, according to a military spokesperson who just released a statement a short while ago, is simply to protect the crowds gathering in different areas of the city. they say they're not taking sides, that they're not going to support one faction over the other. at this stage the deployment is aimed strictly at trying to prevent the crowds from any type of friction. we've seen what happens when supporters and opponents of the president get within the vicinity of each other. late last night after the president spoke there was a march and a protest of supporters and opponents at cairo university. that turned deadly. more than 20 people were killed in that attack alone. you get a sense of the volatility and just how easily something like this can come bust because emotions are running so high at this very point. the question that remains central is where is president mohamed morsi in all of this? is he in charge? is he now in any capacity still

running the country? officials from the muslim brotherhood, senior members are saying that they have not heard from him, that they have not been in touch with him. that doesn't necessarily mean that anything has happened to him. at this stage, it is highly unusual given the political dynamics that are unfolding, the intense negotiations, the fact that the president would have to be in touch with members of his own party, members of the opposition. the fact they haven't been hearing from him raises serious questions as to what is unfolding behind palace walls. richard? >> ayman, stand by for a second. i want to bring in former assistant secretary of state jamie rueben. you've heard all the latest reports from ayman right there in cairo. amazing pictures. 8:03 in the evening. it reminds both of us certainly what happened two years ago. where is morsi? what is happening with the military? we're hearing reports of a military coup. what do you think is happening right now? >> well, i think we're seeing, again, the case of egypt's

democracy being exhibited through a form of people power. it is true that morsi was elected. the election was free and fair. i think the system itself was not really a democratic system. the muslim brotherhood was the only party that really had an organized system. the constitution is highly debatable since such a small portion of the country supported it. so when you have a country going through its earliest phases of democracy, it can often be highly volatile. my guess is that the military believes that the vast majority of the egyptian people do not support the president now, that they have been alienated by a number of factors, including the collapse of the economy, including the fact that he has targeted his policies really towards the muslim community and

not the broader egyptian body politic. so although it does appear that we're in a slow-motion cou coucoup coup d'etat, it depends how they respond. will they take on the military? will there be more violence? it seems to be the vast majority of egyptians -- i saw polls suggesting 80% want to see morsi out. the vast majority have been alienated by his rule over the last 11 months. >> and this crosses religious lines. certainly the discomfort with mohamed morsi leading the

country. we're now about three hours since the deadline that was given by the military, has passed. we're getting those reports. over the last three hour, we've seen the jubilation, the energy in the plaza here markedly increase. what is crucial right now? if the country is going through what those reports are telling us, through a period of being rudderless? >> i think what's crucial is that the violence is avoided, that it does break down this huge divide that exists in egypt, doesn't become violent. i think the military probably has decided to go slow in its implementation of the deadline they referred to, precisely because they do not want to see this turn violent. the hard part if indeed they are taking over slowly the reins of

power -- and the last report i saw suggested an arm of the military, the so-called republican guard, which is responsible for the president's security, is still maintaining that security for the president. as the military takes power, that the muslim brotherhood who are the opposite of elated, the opposite of the protesters in tahrir square, that they don't become so angry that this collapses into mass violence. that's the most important thing right now. >> all right, jamie. stand by. i want to bring back ayman. as we go back to where you're at, tahrir square, the question has been, how bad have things become? it certainly wasn't a light switch that went from on to off. the economy, oil prices, electricity, things have slowly degraded since the days of hosni mubarak. >> reporter: absolutely right. i've been in tahrir square throughout the day. i've spoken to a lot of people.

there are those that voted for president morsi that are standing in this square tonight asking for his removal. now, it's important to keep in mind when you're talking about what has happened over the last year, it can be really summed up in two different categories. day-to-day life and democratic reforms. the top tier has been the largest grievance that most people have with the way the muslim brotherhood has run this country. they feel that, yes, president morsi was elected democratically, but he didn't win with a very large margin. in fact, his margin was very minimal. people wanted him to come into office, reach across the divide, and build a more pluralistic, open, tolerant egypt. that didn't happen. people feel the constitution that was passed was one that favored the islamists. it did not protect minority rights. these are what opponents and critics of the president have been saying. it's what built this sense of grievance on the structural problems of the state. but on the day-to-day life, all the issues you have mentioned have consistently gotten worse. crime is soaring. inflation is skyrocketing.

people here feel that their freedoms are being curbed more and more. that's the argument critics have been making. when you ask supporters of the president, they say that it's actually quite the opposite. the president inherited a state bureaucracy that was full of remnants of the old regime, of the state's security apparatus. they're the ones causing the chaos. they're the ones that are preventing any type of democratic reforms to take place. every time the president tried to push through any type of reform, he was either dismissed by a corrupt judiciary or by a police force that refused to implement any kind of law and order that he was requiring. so you get a sense that as a result of this break down, this is what has brought egypt to this point. regardless of what side of the divide you're on, today egypt is not a functioning state. it's not a functioning society. in the eyes of both supporters and opponents, life has considerably gotten worse over the past year. that's why the military has made the point it is now affecting

national security. it's no longer simply a matter of political divisions or political differences, but now the situation is deteriorating. you look at situations like sth border. the army has lost soldiers. there's reports of increased presence of islamic extremists and militants. that's a deteriorating situation compounded by the other things we just talked about. that's what forced the military to act. that's why people here don't necessarily use the term -- and what i mean by people here, those in tahrir, they don't use the word coup. they're saying military intervention. they feel this is the people's expressed will that president mohamed morsi refused to listen to over the course of the year. >> so much uncertainty there. ayman watching that for us. the question, where is the president of egypt? jamie rubin, thank you so much. we'll continue to watch this

story here on msnbc. we'll also take you back to sanford, florida. we're looking at the george zimmerman trial. all of that coming up next. [ female announcer ] waiting, waiting... feel like you're growing older... waiting to look younger? don't wait. [ female announcer ] get younger looking skin fast. with new olay regenerist micro-sculpting cream. the next generation with 2 new anti-aging ingredients. it penetrates rapidly. visible wrinkle results start day 1. and you'll see younger looking skin before you even finish one jar. ♪ new olay regenerist. the wait is over.

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well, the news nation is also following ongoing testimony in the george zimmerman trial. on the stand right now, crime lab analyst. so far, he's been testifying about the dna testing procedures. we continue to listen to that. earlier the prosecution was focusing on zimmerman's prior knowledge about law enforcement procedures. for the first time in this trial, florida's controversial stand your ground law has taken center stage. now, the testimony came after some early courtroom drama. the zimmerman defense team

objected to the prosecution bringing are zimmerman's prior education in criminal justice into evidence. after a 50-minute hearing, judge nelson ruled that the evidence was admissible. the prosecution then called alexis francisco carter, who was zimmerman's teacher for a local class on criminal litigation. take a listen. >> talk to me about what kind of student you remember the defendant to be. >> you know, you always kind of remember your smartest student or the one that stood out the most. the one that probably wasn't the best student. he was probably one of the better students in the class. >> did you discuss specifically self-defense and stand your ground laws and the connection of violent crimes such as murder? >> yes. >> when you taught the class, what is the core concept of

self-defense when you can use deadly force? >> when you have a reasonable apprehension of death or grievous bodily harm, and there's a subjective component meaning i feel like i'm in fear. in my mind, i feel like i'm in fear of death or bodily harm. but when stuff hits the fan, you're judged by jurors. >> well, the prosecution also called two witnesses who testified to zimmerman's interest in law enforcement, one saying is zimmerman applied for a police job in virginia. the other showing paperwork from a ride along that zimmerman took with sanford police back in 2010. now, george zimmerman has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder charges in the shooting death of trayvon martin. he claimed self-defense. martin was unarmed. now, msnbc's craig melvin is in sanford, florida. busy day of testimony.

craig, judge debra nelson brought up the possibility of the prosecution resting. >> yeah, judge nelson probably about 15 or 20 minutes ago indicated after a hearing that the state basically told her that they had every intention of resting their case today. shortly thereafter judge nelson also said that she plans to go as long as it takes today to help the state do that. of course, no court tomorrow here in sanford, florida, because of the july 4th holiday. judge nelson said basically she expects the defense to be able to start their case on friday. judge nelson also rejected a defense motion to adjourn until friday. that's how we actually kind of got to know all this stuff about the scheduling. she rejected a defense motion by don west to adjourn until friday. the defense wanted to adjourn so they could depose two additional

witnesses that they had not been able to depose yet. one of those witnesses is actually benjamin crump. crump, of course, the martin family attorney. don west saying he hasn't had an opportunity to depose him yet. wants to get that done. again, the highlight right now, richard, of course, this thing could be over for the defense at least today. now, we should note here right now on the stand, the crime lab analyst. the prosecution has already introduced evidence that would indicate that there were no fingerprints found. there weren't trayvon martin fingerprints found on george zimmerman's .9-millimeter gun. he was saying there's no dna evidence found on that gun as well. this is the seventh witness called today, the 33rd witness so far. again, right now the highlight, judge nelson, who is known for her punctuality, indicating

today could go a little longer than folks may have expected. >> craig melvin, thank you so much for that. it certainly was an eye opener. joining us now, msnbc legal analyst lisa bloom and john burress. was this part of strategy in some way to see how well prepared the defense was? >> it could be. you know, that's the way these trials go sometimes. you rest your case and all of the sudden the defense doesn't have a witness waiting in the hallway and they don't look so good. it's not easy when you're a trial lawyer to have witnesses line td up waiting to testify. if they wait too long, they can get annoyed with you. if you're not there when you need them, it gets the judge annoyed. add to that the defense has the right to take pretrial depositions of witnesses before they testify, and they have not had the opportunity to do that with some of them. they're in a bit of a jam. that hearing is going to continue where the judge will decide how to go forward. >> john, as you've been watching this, we have long talked about

how it the martin family is expected to be called to testify as well as more forensic experts. we're seeing some o of that right now. if they were to rest today, would they be able to fit all that in with the time we have in front of us? >> i think it will be very charging, particularly if you're going to put on the medical examiner. that could take some time. although, it's not in dispute. there are aspects of the examination that may be. that is the direction of the bullet. it might go to the question of what position they were in at the time the shooting took place. of course, they're not going to want to spend a lot of time with the mom or the dad because you don't want to go into that too much. they only want to really deal with the question of how certain could they be about hearing their son's voice. so it could be a challenge to try to get it all in. i would say it's not very likely, knowing how the examination of the defense has been, which has been very thorough and sometimes more exhaustive than necessary, to the extent they need to play for time. they'll play for time by extending the cross-examination. i would say one additional thing

here is generally the prosecution is supposed to have told the defendant what witnesses they're going to call next and have a series of those witnesses so that the defense is on notice. i'm surprised that they would be surprised that the case could end unless the prosecution decided we've done enough. so there's some gamesmanship involved is here having been in these positions many times before. i know lawyers are not necessarily candid with each other. they're really trying to get an edge any way they can. >> and that's what's keeping our eyes there on the crime lab analyst being questioned by the lead prosecutor. lisa, john, hang on one bit. we're going to continue and take it back to the courtroom there. >> you would get 25% that they would both land on heads. this applies to the random probability, the statistics i use. these 13 or 15 locations that i test are all inherited independently. so once i determine the frequency that you would find the results at one of these

locations in the population, i can then multiply it with the other 12 or the other 14 locations using this product rule to get a frequency that you would find that entire dna profile. >> in terms of some of the results you talked to this jury about, why are some of the results in terms of the numbers more than the actual population of the earth? which i believe is now 6.5 or 7 billion. why is it higher? >> i think it's almost 7 billion now, the population of the earth. it really doesn't have anything to do with the population of the earth. it's more about the frequency at which i see these results. it's similar to -- if you think about it, sometimes you see it posted somewhere that the frequency or the probability of winning the lottery is 1 in 1 million. that has nothing to do with how many people play the lottery or how many people live in the area. it just has to do with what is the probability that i'm going to match all six or seven of these numbers and get them all right based on what's the chance

that the one is going to draw out versus a 44. it's the same concept with the dna profiles. it doesn't matter how many people are on the earth or in the central florida area or anything. it's just a probability based on how rare or frequent these results show up in these ethnic groups. it's the probability that this entire profile will be seen if you test a random individual. >> and i believe the three ethnic groups or race groups is african-american, caucasian, and then you have what else, hispanics, i guess? >> for a long time when we used the fbi database, we calculated the frequency of profiles for caucasian, african-american, and southeastern hispanics populations. those are the three most prevalent in the central florida area. when we switched to the new database using our new system where we're testing 15 locations instead of 13, we now test -- we do statistics for caucasian,

african-american, and hispanic as opposed to southeastern hispanic. >> all right. well, let's talk about specifically what you did in this case now that we've got the basic stuff out of the way. i believe you did three reports in this case dated march 26th, may the 9th, and july the 26th of 2012. it's under fdle 2012. your reports and your entire file has been copied and provided to defense counsel. with the court's permission, may he refer to his report or notes at any time? >> any objections? >> no. >> okay. thank you. yes, you may do so. >> it might be easier if we start off with the standards. i believe you received two standards for two samples you did. specifically a swab that was represented as coming from the defendant george zimmerman and

also a dna card or blood card taken by the medical examiner from the victim in this case, trayvon martin. do you recall that, sir? >> yes, that's correct. >> okay. all right. and what i want to do is -- first w the court's permission, may i approach the witness, your honor? >> you may. >> sir, i'm showing you state's exhibit 186. do you recognize state's exhibit 18 of? >> the lead prosecutor there bringing another item to the floor for the witness to take a look at. we are going to take a short break here on msnbc. we'll be right back with the george zimmerman trial shortly. time for the your business entrepreneurs of the week. dave and neil launched warby parker in 2010 to shake up the

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plus, there are no networks, and you never need a referral. see why millions of people have already enrolled in the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp. don't wait. call now. breaking news. as you know, two big stories today. the george zimmerman trial and what's happening in egypt. right now, 8:28 in the evening.

it has been a very busy day. i want to bring in former state department official joel rubin. what we're just hearing is that we are about to get a statement from the coptic pope there in egypt on perhaps a road map going forward. there has been question as to what would happen after morsi is gone, and we don't know where the president is. what's your thought? >> this -- egypt in a sense it the petri dish through which the whole arab spring is being seen. we've seen it really pour over. if the military has, in fact, taken over the reins of power and has morsi under some type of arrest or containment, that is going to complicate relations

between the u.s. and egypt. it's going to be important that the military, that morsi, that the leaders of the opposition navigate through this peacefully. there's still time. there's still a need to demonstrate legitimacy for the egyptian government. there is also, of course, the need for the egyptian military and the security services to calm down the streets. right now we're really witnessing all of these pieces happening at a simultaneous moment. >> you are an egypt expert. we've heard several solutions brought up. there was one printed in terms of what a road map might be in the paper there in egypt. there was also this statement we're hearing that might happen coming from the coptic pope. what is key right now as the reports are there is no president or where is the president, i should say?

>> there's going to have to be clarity of that. there's going to have to be clarity of who is involved in the road map making process. the street is going to have to be calmed down, hopefully not through violence. that could spill into a direction that no one would like to see. the leadership of the different protest movements as well as those we just mentioned, they need to demonstrate they have a clear view about the next steps forward. if there is not that, we have a recent experience where the supreme council of the armed forces, the military, ran the country and ran it in a direction where it lost credibility with the people of egypt. i don't think we're witnessing in the streets a demand for a return to military rule. we're seeing a demand for accountable government, government that represents the wishes of the egyptian people, as was called for 2 1/2 years ago by them. that's going to require some compromise we have not yet seen through their political process.

>> all right. joel, i want to bring in ayman, who's been reporting for us live in tahrir square. there was a state news agency reporting perhaps a statement being put out. what are you hearing? >> reporter: that's correct. in fact, the egyptian military has confirmed a statement will be made within the hour about the meetings that the senior officers of the armed forces have held with religious, political, and youth figures of the country. this was a statement that was posted about 15 minutes ago. in that statement, they say that senior members of the armed forces held meetings with representatives from senior religious institutions as well as members of the youth movement of the revolution and others and notable figures. they now will be making a statement within the hour. that was posted about 15 minutes ago. we can expect it 45 minutes from now. these are official news agencies that often report information directly from the government. they're saying that the

statement will be made by former nobel laureate, one of the key opposition figures in the country. along with him will be the coptic pope. the three individuals are expected to make that statement. we don't know yet what that statement is going to entail, but it will summarize what took place in that meeting between them and the armed forces. in addition to what we've been hearing from senior members of the muslim brotherhood that they have not been in touch with mohamed morsi and they're describing this as a military coup. we can piece together that right now currently there is a change of leadership at least happening underway in egypt. >> the former head of the iaea, you mentioned christian leaders as well as muslim leaders. important in that mix, isn't it,

that the muslim brotherhood be part of those discussions and moving forward in putting together a coalition government. >> reporter: absolutely. in the statement that was made a few days ago on sunday in which the ultimatum was given to president mohamed morsi and others, the military made very clear that its road map would include all the members of egyptian society, all the political factions. there is no undermining and there's no doubt that the muslim brotherhood and even more conservative elements of political islamic organizations have a very strong street presence. the real test going forward is whether or not this transitional government, the writing of a new constitution, whatever form the transitional period takes, will they have a seat at the table? the military in the initial statement said it will. the question is wether or not that will actually be implemented. the figures we were just talking about, they're very important to the overall fabric of egyptian

society. he'd been speaking about values that were held dear by revolutionary youth. so he's an individual that revolutionary youth movements in egypt have systemically said he could negotiate on their behalf, including the most recent campaign. in addition to him, you have two very important religious institutions here. keep in mind egypt has about 15 million christians that are mostly coptic. that is being represented by the pope, who will be at the reading of this statement as we understand it as well. so it is also a message that is being sent with these three individuals that the military or whoever now made this announcement or at least made this -- made the preparations for this announcement wanted to

strike a symbolic tone with national unity. they're very keen on going forward that nobody is alienated from what just happened here in egypt. there's certainly going to be many people, mainly supporters of president morsi and the muslim brotherhood, who are going to look at this and describe it as a coup. they're going to feel they're now under attack. there are already initial reports that the muz lislim brotherhood and their freedom and justice offices are going to become more and more the targets of the type of criticism and violence we've seen over the last couple days. as a result of that, you can bet that the senior figures of this country, including the armed forces, now those that are about to make this statement, want to make sure they're striking a very reconciliatory tone. whether or not that falls on everybody's ears is going to be the testament in the next coming days. >> joel, as you're still with us at the moment, ayman reporting

and confirming that the state news agency reported a statement will come in about 45 minutes. what's your thought about the comfort that this group might bring to the international community as so much of foreign direct investment as pulled out of egypt over the last year? >> i think that what this showinshows is that the egyptian people really do want to control their future. that is where the international community wanted to see this revolution head. there's been a lot of disappointment in morsi's government. economic mismanagement, a failure to be inclusive, social decay that's caused significant unrest over the past year. there's been significant international concern about that. nobody in the international community has been calling for morsi's ouster, but the egyptian people are clearly fed up.

it's too early to tell how this will play out. certainly the international community does not like to see instability, gets nervous about it, was accustomed to decades of a stable egypt, and we're going to be with this period of instability for some time. i think as ayman pointed out, having the diverse set of leaders come out in a statement is essential, but it also is going to require working with folks who run the brotherhood and who have had the leadership. just over the corner, over the horizon, there's syria. there's a civil war going on there. it is dramatic, and it has islamist groups involved. in the '90s there was also an election in algeria of a political party and there was civil war and fighting there too. much of the international community is taking a deep breath and watching this and seeing is how this will play out. >> and that comparison you make,

joel, others have looked at to say what will happen next here in egypt? we know in the next 40 minutes or so, we may get an idea of a solution for egypt that they are putting forth. joel rubin, thank you so much. ayman, thank you as well. i'm sure we'll be getting back to you later as things progress there. we're going to take a very short break here at msnbc and be right back.

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testifying about the dna found on the gun used to kill trayvon martin. we now go to the crime lab analyst. >> the pistol slide gave a negative result when i tested it for the possible presence of blood. the dna testing result was not a mixture. it also gave me limited results. however, i was able to make determinations on this. it was too limited for me to

match it to any one individual. however, i was able to make a comparison and potentially exclude any individual that i thought couldn't possibly have contributed to the sample. as far as the comparison to the george zimmerman and trayvon martin, i was not able to include or exclude either of those individuals to that limited sample. >> there just wasn't enough there? >> i just wasn't able to make a determination. there wasn't enough information for them present to make an inclusion because i wasn't able to make an inclusion to the sample in general. and there wasn't enough of an absence of their information for me to say there's no way they contributed to it. >> the fourth swab was taken from the holster itself. tell us -- and that's the last part of this slide that i've shown. tell us what your findings were regarding that. >> the swab from the holster tested negative for the possible presence of blood.

the dna testing gave me a mixture of dna. i was able to resolve out o major dna profile for this sample. that major dna profile matched george zimmerman. the statistical analysis is right here. it's the same, 1 in 11 quadrillion caucasians. that would be for the probability of the major dna profile. as far as the minor or lesser contributors, i was not able to determine a dna profile for any of those minor contributors. when i made the comparison to trayvon martin, i was not able to include or exclude him from the mixture. >> so as to the holster where you got a major, it matches george zimmerman, is that correct? >> correct. >> did you then also examine

fingernail scrapings from trayvon martin taken at the medical examiner's office? >> i did. >> your honor, may i approach the witness? >> yes, you may. >> sir, i'm going to show you what's been -- thank you, your honor. state's exhibit number 191. i asked you, do you recognize state's exhibit 191, sir? >> i do. the outside packaging has my florida department of law enforcement case number, bar code label, my initials and a date. the two internal packages also have my initials and a date. >> okay. and these are not -- at least when i look at them, they don't appear to be q-tips in terms of a little swab at the end, is that correct? >> no. >> what are these? >> it's a wooden scraper stick.

it has a point -- one pointy edge. that edge is used to scrape down in between the fingernail and the skin to try to obtain any kind of foreign dna that might be present under someone's fingernails that might have happened during an encounter or struggle. >> okay. so as to state's exhibit 181, i believe -- i'm sorry, 191. excuse me. you can identify it as coming from the fingernail scrapings from the medical examiner's office of trayvon benjamin martin, is that correct? >> yes. >> your honor, may i publish these to the jury? >> yes, you may. >> and we're going to take a quick break. we'll be right back here on msnbc with the george zimmerman trial. a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis,

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testimony in sanford, florida. >> are these two exhibits the swab from are the skittles and the flashlight? >> yes. >> are they labeled as such? does one say a bag of skittles and the other say flashlight on it? >> yes, each box was labeled. i took and labeled them a and b. >> your honor, may i publish this to the jury? >> yes, you may. >> in other words, the boxes themselves have labels as to where they came from. is that correct? >> yes. >> i want to ask you about your results or findings regarding those two exhibits, sir. specifically, let's talk about the -- thank you, your honor. let's talk about the swab from the skittles bag.

what were your findings? >> the swab gave a possible finding of the presence of blood. it was a partial dna profile. these two samples i tested 15 areas. that partial dna profile did match trayvon martin. the probability of finding that dna profile at random would be 1 in 100 quadrillion caucasians, 1 in 160 trillion african-americans, and 1 in 18 quadrillion hispanics. >> i want to move now to the swab from the flashlight recovered at the scene. if you could, what were your findings? >> the swab from the flashlight gave a negative result for

blood. i was not able to obtain any dna results from that swab. >> sir, i now want to move to some analysis you did of a sweatshirt or hooded sweatshirt. do you recall doing analysis -- and i'm showing you for the record state's exhibit 118, a photograph. do you recall doing analysis on that exhibit, sir? >> yes, i do. >> okay. with the court's permission, may we turn on the lights to show the actual exhibit? thank you, your honor. may the witness step down, yes or no? >> yes, he may. please step down.

>> john burress, lisa bloom still with us. as we look at what's being discussed right now, john, the issue here of dna on the gun, key perhaps to the story line that trayvon martin had reached and perhaps touched the gun that george zimmerman had had. what are you hearing from the lab analyst? at one point he was saying he could not include or exclude dna in his analysis. what's your thought, john? >> that's my thought. i mean, i thought initially that it was going to be an exclusion totally of trayvon. i didn't really get that from him. i get that there wasn't enough samples there for him to include or exclude. so in that sense, it's neutral. it was designed to impeach, if possible, mr. zimmerman's claim that he had reached for the gun. but i don't really see that. i don't hear that. what you really have is the dna on things that are pretty obvious. we're probably going to go to the sweatshirt.

we went to the skittle cans. at the end of the day, i don't know that this really carries the day in terms of one way or the other. the prosecution ultimately has to put this evidence on. i don't think it goes to the guilt or innocence of mr. zimmerman. >> lisa, does this information you've heard so far help the prosecution? >> it's another piece of incremental evidence that helps the prosecution. i get two takeaways from this testimony. one is that the dna expert says there's no dna from trayvon martin on the gun. although some samples were too small to measure, there was one good sample and trayvon martin's dna was not on it. second, there's no foreign dna, meaning there's no george zimmerman dna under trayvon martin's fingernails. that one, i think, is even more significant because although george zimmerman mostly claims that trayvon martin did not touch the gun and most of his stories he said he reached for the gun, he certainly says

trayvon martin was punching him, was assaulting him, was putting his hands over his mouth. yet, no george zimmerman dna anywhere on trayvon martin's hands. i think that is significant. >> that is significant. john, when you heard that information about no dna there on george zimmerman's hands, what do you make of that? >> well, i don't know that i would say that is conclusive that it never happened. i think we do have the notion that trayvon's hands were on him. that doesn't necessarily mean dna would be left. obviously, it's important if you can exclude it and argue from the prosecution's point of view, but i think the defense can argue it as well. so far indicating it's not conclusive at that point, that disproves mr. zimmerman's claims. >> john, lisa, stand by. craig melvin, who has been watching this case for us in sanford, florida, outside the courtroom has more information for us right now. craig, what are you hearing? >> reporter: you know, richard,

i suppose the defense is getting ready to start its case. the state has filed a motion of limine. this means the state is trying to restrict the scope of expert testimony that's going to be offered by the defense when the defense starts its case. i'm going to read to you quickly from the motion here. the motion is specific to a defense witness named dennis rude. according to the motion, he was deposed on june 29th, and he, quote, now offers himself as an expert in various law enforcement related topics, including the use of force. the motion goes on to say that during the deposition rude says the defendant george zimmerman was reasonable in his use of deadly force against trayvon martin. goes on to say the defendant did

not violate any florida statutes as well. again, this is a motion filed by the state in an attempt to limit some expert testimony we expect to hear when the defense launches its case. >> craig melvin, thank you so much, outside the courtroom there in sanford, florida. our big story, george zimmerman and the trial today. we continue to watch that here on msnbc and of course what is happening in egypt. all coming up. "the cycle" is next. stay with msnbc. o's gonna take your wheat thins? i don't know. an intruder, the dog, bigfoot. could you get the light? [ loud crash ] what is going on?! honey, i was close! it's a yeti! [ male announcer ] must! have! wheat thins! honey, i was close! it's a yeti! cheryl burke is cha-cha-ing in depend silhouette briefs for charity, to prove that with soft fabric and waistband, the best protection looks, fits, and feels just like underwear. get a free sample and try for yourself.

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