i told you i don't have memory. i do not have any facts. i have no opinion. >> if i were to show you a picture of trayvon martin's fingernails, you wouldn't know whether or not they looked the same that day. >> the fingernail has to connect to trayvon's head for me even to identify. >> i'm talking about the condition -- what the fingernails looked like. if i showed you a picture, that wouldn't do you any good because you have no memory. >> yes. >> is that correct? >> i do not have any memory. i told you before, i told you right now. i do not remember anything. >> part of the protocol also includes fingernail clippings, correct? >> it's not my protocol. it's not my job. it's technician's job. they are trained to do that. >> don't you supervise the technicians? >> i supervise them. >> don't you make sure they do their job completely and correctly? >> i have confidence on them. they are trained to do their

job. i cannot keep my eye on them when i do autopsy. i do autopsy, my hands is gloves, my hands is bloody. >> are you doing an autopsy with bloody, gloved hands when the fingernails are scraped? >> no. i look at them before we do autopsy. >> sure, and -- >> and after we look at it and write down -- we should write at that point and we start autopsy and we never look at it again. >> so you're saying you don't know whether or not it's standard protocol to make fingernail clippings as well as scrapings. >> no, i don't know. i even don't know that protocol exists because it's not part of my job. >> may i approach the witness? >> yes, you may. >> i'm going to show you what's called an evidence

accountability sheet. >> yes. >> do you have that? >> i do have that. this one? >> right. do you see there's a check box for fingernail scrapings that's checked? >> yes. >> and you see one for fingernail clippings that is not checked. correct? >> yes. >> that tells you then there were no fingernail clippings as part of the autopsy procedure here. >> actually, i remember in texas they do clipping. here they do scraping. it's chief's call. the chief of the medical examiner's office makes the decision. my job is determining the cause and manner of death. i would not worry about the protocol the technician have. >> you don't worry about whether

the technician is following the protocol of the office? it's not your job? >> no, it's not. >> so you would have no idea why no fingernail clippings were preserved. >> yeah, i was there. i don't remember what they did. it's not my job to worry about it. >> so that would mean, then, you don't know if they weren't kept because they chose not to -- >> yeah, they do not do that -- >> or, or that there weren't any fingernail clippings because the nails were so short they couldn't get any. you don't know. >> i told you before, i don't remember. >> did you do a blood draw for routine toxicology in this case? >> we tried to get blood for every case. >> so in this case there was blood drawn as part of the routine autopsy protocol for submission to a toxicology lab

for analysis, is that correct? >> yes, in my note i -- we note that the blood is from trayvon's chest. >> right. for toxicology. >> objection, your honor. it's an issue we've previously addressed. >> okay. court has made a pretrial ruling about this manner. please abide by the court's ruling. >> yes, your honor. for toxicology purposes, the blood that was drawn was from the chest area, correct? >> yes. >> for toxicology purposes, it's better, is it not, that the blood be drawn from a peripheral source? >> yeah, the peripheral blood is first choice, such as femur blood. >> somewhere down in the leg? >> yeah, or blood from here. >> in this case, did you attempt

to get peripheral blood? >> yes. >> how do you know? >> i do not remember. >> pardon? >> you want to catch me. i do not remember. i told you generallypeakin okay we try to get peripheral blood first. if we cannot get peripheral blood, we try heart second. if we cannot get blood from the heart, we try something else. in this case, trayvon martin has no blood left everywhere else. all blood is in the chest. that's our only option, i believe. >> you're suggesting -- i mean, you saw the photos. obviously, your staff took them. there was no source of blood anywhere in his photo other than the chest? >> wait physical until he finis his question. >> is it your testimony there was no source of blood for sox

ko -- toxicology purposes from peripheral blood? >> if it was peripheral blood, we would take it. >> are there any -- >> objection. >> just one second, please. >> this is tamron hall live from the msnbc's temporary headquarters in new orleans. we're right now in a break in the george zimmerman trial. i've got with me john burress here in new orleans. lisa bloom is also standing by. it's been an extrord aordinary . i want to start with the immediate, where we are now, john. you have this medical examiner who prior to this picking up or resuming of the testimony referenced his personal notes. this set off a dramatic back and

forth. here we are now. why are his personal notes relevant, and why is it perceived as being a benefit to george zimmerman's defense somehow? >> well, it's important. when a witness testifies, they are supposed to have turned over all the information they used in order to give their testimony. if they're testifying at the time and they're reading from them, the other side has a right to know what they're reading from. you are supposed to testify from memory. i don't believe, unless there was something very negative in those note, that necessarily helped either side. at the end of the day, it doesn't look proper. it gives the impression that the prosecution was trying to hide something. point of fact, they were not. that's just the impression it gave. >> let me bring in lisa bloom. prior to this medical examiner, we heard from trayvon martin's mother. i think outside of his friend who was on the phone with him at time this all started and eventually ended in trayvon martin being killed, his mother's testimony is what i

believe people really wanted to hear based on the audio expert who said that while there's no technology that can definitively say who was screaming in the background, someone who knew the individual might be able to say, i know that voice. what do you make of her testimony today? >> that's right, tamron. who better knows trayvon martin than his own mother, who's known him since his very first day on sne she testified, i thought, with a lot of poise and dignity and resolve that that voice was trayvon martin's voice. she said the voice of trayvon benn ja -- benjamin martin. she would not move on cross-examination. she said this wasn't about hope. it was him, i'm quite sure of it. a very strong witness for the prosecution. tamron? >> lisa, what do you make of the brevity of the cross there? where was mark o'mara really

going to be able to go? he stood the risk of turning off this all-female jury by appearing to be insensitive to this grieving mother. whatever happened and whatever determination or decision the jury makes, we know this woman is grieving the loss of her child. >> he tried to address that. the first words out of his mouth were, i apologize for your loss. the judge immediately said, that's improper, which it is. an attorney is not supposed to make a statement like that. is he apologizing? is george zimmerman apologizing? it was obviously an attempt on his part to humanize himself as he went into the cross-examination of sybrina fulton, trayvon's mother. he certainly didn't accuse her of lying, but he tried to plant a seed in the jury's mind that any mother would hope her son was not the instigator, that he was the victim. perhaps she just hoped it so much she heard it that way and believed it. she did not agree with that assessment, but that's where he went on cross-examination.

>> right. and john, what do you make of the length of time this medical examiner has been on? he could be the last witness called by the state here. he has certainly been on the stand now for multiple hours. >> it is quite surprising he's on the stand as long given the testimony he had. usually it's a matter of fact type testimony. this particular person is kind of a wild card in the sense he had his own notes. he was kind of argumentative at time when is he shouldn't have been. i don't know that it necessarily hurts the prosecution's case, although he did change his testimony around the length of time that trayvon might have suffered, which is kind of important, but it's not. i think it's unusual he's still on the stand. >> okay, john. thank you, lisa. we're going to send it back to the testimony and listen more to the man who performed the autopsy on trayvon martin. >> no, i don't believe we have that.

>> is it part of your protocol not to photograph the entire body, all of the body surfaces? >> the protocol is we take photos as a whole body. we take three photos to cover all the body because we don't have space to get a camera too high, very high to get one of the whole body. other than that, we take the photos as needed. for example, if i found something i thought might be significant such as the injury, a tumor, a disease on skin, we will take photo. >> are you saying it was a conscious decision by your staff member not to photograph the palms of trayvon martin's hands? >> i look at the palm, generally speakivery case because

the body come in, the hand is contracted. i have to bend them straight. i look at them. if i do not find anything, i just pass. >> and you don't take a picture? >> i do not take picture for anywhere i don't think is significant. >> so you're making a decision on the fly what might be significant later and make a conscious decision not to photograph certain parts of the body? >> it was my decision, i think. i look at it. i did not see any injury. i did not see any disease. so we just move on. >> that's what you're looking for is injury or disease? >> yes. >> likewise, you don't have any pictures of trayvon martin's fingernails, is that correct? >> i do not believe we have that. >> was that also a conscious decision not to take a picture that would show his fingernails?

>> it's not a particular decision, i believe. we do not do that if i do not find anything significant or disease or injuries. >> that's certainly not a cost issue, is it? >> it is not a cost issue. >> it's just a digit caal camer. >> yes. >> the images are stored digitally. >> yes. >> you're not paying for film or copies. >> i do not even worry about that. when we do autopsy for any profession, i work in the hospital, in the medical examiner's office. efficiency is so important. in this case, we started autopsy 10:30. means i did another one before -- >> we continue to watch the cross-examination of dr. shiping bao. he's the medical examiner who performed the autopsy on trayvon martin. we'll continue to follow the testimony, but also still ahead, another story that has riveted the crowd here in new orleans and quite honestly across the

nation. a deadly fourth of july in chicago yet again. dozens of people injured. joining me after the break, "essence" magazine susan taylor, founder of the national cares mentoring movement as well as the co-founder of brotherhood sister soul, a new york based empowerment organization. coming up on a lighter note, grammy winner janelle monet is set to perform at the essence festival on sunday. before she performs, she'll join the news nation and talk about her upcoming album, her performance on the b.e.t. awards and her beautiful cover girl ad. you can watch our special edition of "news nation" live from the 19th annual essence festival in new orleans. join the conversation on twitter. you can find us @tamronhall and @newsnation #msnbc. ♪

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welcome back. we're live at the 19th annual essence festival. you may have noticed this year the essence festival was renamed from the essence music festival to the essence festival. that change is meant to reflect the events expanding cultural focus. issues like health care, education, and career development, issues we know affect every community. it is a particular focus today in new orleans for the african-american community and for "essence" magazine.

a big part of the focus is the empowerment experience, bringing together authors, innovators, and leaders to advance the personal goals that have been set by so many in the community. we're honored to have with us today "essence" magazine's editor in chief susan taylor. she led the magazine for nearly 20 years and went on to create the national care's mentoring movement. also with me on our set is lisa nichols, ceo of motivating the masses. you're going to be here all these days talking to folks. susan, i want to the start off with you. full disclosure, we were at an event recently where you were discussing volunteering and reaching out to the youth. i thought about you this morning as soon as i saw the news out of chicago that another weekend, another bloody weekend in

chicago. kids who need someone to mentor them, give them advice. that's what you've dedicated your life to. >> indeed. i am -- i have two hearts today. i'm looking at what has grown up to be the essence musical festival with all these many people and also the opportunity that we have to really make a difference in the lives of so many young people who are struggling and dying on our watch. in chicago and every city across this nation. it's going to take our hearts and opening our understanding that there are children who don't have what most of those gathered down in new orleans had that opened the pathway for them to have the resources to do what they're doing. and fixing the young lives that are so broken, young people in dream-crushing pain, really requires the involvement of our community. and that's what we're working on every day with the national cares mentoring movement that

was founded as essence cares. >> right. susan, the message that you've been preaching and teaching, i like to say, is not necessarily a new one, but it seems the next generation after the next we see fall into -- i don't want to say a plague, but it is. listen, i'm a kid of the '70s. by the time the '80s rolled around, a rot of my friends were young mothers. and others were selling crack. now we're in 2013. we've had some successes here and there, particularly with young black women and the pregnancy rate and even some of these drug crimes. when you look at chicago, for example, and i lived there for ten years. you look at those streets and wonder, when they call chicago chiraq, what can be done? >> well, we're right there in chicago. we're with windy city cares. we're at harlan high. harlan high has over 1,000 students. what we're doing is creating an all-turn around protocol that doesn't just take the 50 lucky ones out of the thousand but recultures the entire student

body. we're doing this in assemblies. we're doing this, tamron, to show that when a group of caring, able, stable adults knit ourselves together with a curriculum and really consistently enter the lives of young people, that we can transform their lives. we can help them to transform their lives. it's a pilot that we're institutes. it begins again full-fledged in september. we're going to replicate it throughout the city and within the 60 cities. >> your passion is to get kids into travel and educate them. what do you believe particularly for african-american boys? several of these victims were young men in their 20s. >> you know, i think when we talk about the issue of trying to ensure that a generation does not succumb to this kind of violence, we have to talk about a holistic approach. that's what the brotherhood sister soul does. it's about teaching young people

a sense of self, helping them to redefine manhood and masculinity, helping boys not to see a culture of manhood that's connected violence but instead to see a wholeness in themselves that will allow them to be become stable men and leaders in their community. that's international study. that's helping young people to develop their artistic skill. that's helping young people to go to college and to see opportunities outside of the neighborhood. so it's about developing the self. when you talk about something like chicago, it's also very essential we don't lose sight of the importance of gun control, of reforming our educational system, of really ensuring that we have better parenting. this is a comprehensive approach to ensure that things like what happened in chicago this weekend or happens in new york does not continue to occur. >> lisa, let me get you to get the last word. you motivate the masses. you talk to the parents, the single moms who are struggling. you hear the voices. is there a sense of helplessness, or is there hope? >> there is hope. there is hope.

susan and i have had the pleasure of working at a distance to each other. we're both part of and work with an organization called the village nation as well. i think parents are looking for an opportunity to reinvent themselves. what used to work in 1960 does not work now. neighbors are not helping us to raise our children. we're moving to a place of -- we have to become nonnegotiable. we've been optional. we have to move to a mind set called no matter what. we have to become willing to be a little radical about our children, about ourselves. here's what i know. hurt people can't help heal other people. as mothers and fathers, there's hurt. there's lack, there's void. we have to do ourself work. we're so busy building careers we've forgotn to build our spirituality, to build our faith, to press reset, to give ourselves 1,000 second chances. we're keeping score. i believe the best thing a parent can do is how do i heal me? how do i take care of me so that i can serve from a full cup

versus a half empty or bone-dry cup? >> lisa, thank you. susan, as you know, it is always an honor. i appreciate your time and your concern and care. thank you, all. i want to send our coverage back to sanford, florida, where the testimony continues in the george zimmerman trial. let's listen in. >> so you don't have any database, if you will, of how long someone would be expected to live after sustaining the injury that mr. martin did. >> no. i saw -- i have clear picture, 100% accurate evidence, that one -- one guy three weeks ago, was shot by his father. >> excuse me. your honor -- >> please wait for the next question. thank you. >> okay. >> i'm talking about information that you have outside this autopsy from research you've done, people you've consulted

with, or textbooks that you've read about how long someone is likely to live after sustaining the kind of injury that mr. martin did. >> for the gunshot wound to the heart, i do have experience several times back in alabama, back in texas, and in this office. >> has that ever been memorialized in a public -- >> based on my memory. so i have no -- very -- i have no more than 50% of confidence that they are not accurate. that's why in the deposition i give you one to three minutes, which is very safe. >> let's talk about that for a moment. so you acknowledge that your first opinion was and the one you expressed in writing and at your deposition last november was that it was one to three

minutes, correct? >> yes, in the deposition i told you it was one to three minutes because -- >> okay, now -- >> because it's my job -- >> if you would let me ask the next question. i don't mean to interrupt if you're in the finished, but i want to set the stage. it was one to three minutes back in november. >> yes. >> and it continued to be one to three minutes until the last 60 days. >> yes, until three weeks ago. >> until three weeks ago. then you changed your opinion -- >> based on -- >> and expanded it to more than twice, almost three times as long, more than three times as long from one to ten minutes. >> because i have new experience. >> and that's experience -- personal experience? >> yes. >> not experience or information you gained from reviewing journals or articles or textbooks? >> no. >> your hands-on experience. is this because of a specific case you were working on?

>> yes. three weeks ago -- let me say this. >> yes, if you would, just tell us exactly what it was, your experience three week ago that caused you that caused you to more than triple the time that trayvon martin is likely to have been alive. >> three weeks ago we had a case. one guy about 40 years old was shot by his father. his father was in real self-defense. he called 911 right away. we have clear -- >> i'm going to -- i'm sorry. is this information that's in your personal knowledge, or are you relying on other people's reports? >> my knowledge because the reason i did not to autopsy on this case but i have great interest in this case. >> she needs to be able to hear everything that you're saying. what is it that you're missing? >> my knowledge, because the reason i did not --

>> okay. i did not do autopsy on this case, but i have very great interest on this case because this case is similar to trayvon martin's autopsy. this 40-year-old was shot. the heart, also the right ventricle. very rare this is kind of one of ten years of opportunity that we know exactly the time he was alive. his father call 911 right away. he was in pain and make some painful noise. the 911 people actually hear that. he was pronounced dead ten

minutes after he was shot. very clear time. very rarely you can have clear picture after people was shot how long he alive. so in this case, this guy, 40 years old, shot by his father, his father call 911 right away, we have clear picture. he was alive for ten minutes. i was interested in this case because i'm preparing for this case. so i believe if you shoot the heart, people can survive ten minutes. >> okay. that's your frame of reference, then? >> yes. >> that other case where there's some evidence that the person was alive longer than your first opinion of one to three minutes. >> yes. >> would you agree the range could be quite different depending on the circumstances? >> yes. >> and you couldn't really say that in every case where someone was shot in the heart they would survive ten minutes. >> no. this one -- i say one to ten minutes. i did not say about ten minutes

or ten minutes. i say one to ten minutes. i give myself plenty of margin of error. >> so that's really ten times, isn't it -- >> yes. >> one to ten minutes is a huge -- >> yes, okay. let me tell you -- >> is that as accurate as you can be? >> yes. >> okay. let's then talk about something else you said in connection with that. if i heard what you said earlier in direct, that you said that immediately following the shot, trayvon martin would not be able to move. did you say that? >> yes, i did. >> is that your opinion, that based upon the shot to mr. martin's heart, that immediately upon sustaining it, he would not have been able to move? >> and also i -- >> answer the question first. is that your testimony that immediately upon receiving the

injury to his heart and lung that trayvon martin would not have been able to move? >> yes. >> and are you also saying that he would not be able to talk? >> yes, i did say that. >> he would have no voluntary control of his muscles whatsoever? is that what you're saying? >> i have no idea about that. i do think they can move a little bit. they can make some very painful noise. that's what i learned from the case three weeks ago. >> but you didn't do the autopsy on that case, did you? >> i did not. but i -- >> did you witness the autopsy? >> yes, i did. >> and that's your database, if you will, for all of this? >> normally we have two person. in this case, he did the autopsy. at that day, i did not autopsy,

i think. because this case is so rare, we have clear picture. >> what i'd like you to focus on -- please answer more fully if you feneed to, but i want to focus on your opinion as a medical examiner in this case so that we're clear. is it your testimony that immediately upon sustaining the gunshot wound to his heart and lung that trayvon martin would not have been able to move voluntarily? >> i think he was able to move a little bit. >> how much? >> very, very little. >> could he pull his hands in? could he move his hands? >> i don't know. >> could he move his legs? >> in this world, only one person knows. >> could he sit up? >> i don't know. >> so somewhere between not being able to move at all and maybe move a little bit, you're just not sure how much or for how long. is that what you're saying?

>> again, because nobody knows. only one person knows -- >> objection, your honor. the witness is not being responsive. could we approach the bench, please? >> no, but please rephrase your question and wait until he asks the question to give your answer. >> i understand your question because -- >> your honor -- >> nobody knows what trayvon did after he was shot. >> excuse me. excuse me. >> yes, ma'am. >> thank you. dr. bao. >> yes. >> you need to wait until a question is finished being asked and you need to answer the question being asked. >> yes. >> your honor, may we approach? this is an important matter i'd like to address very briefly. >> ask your question. >> may i have just a moment?

>> i want to be precise with my question. as an expert, you're allowed to give an opinion, obviously. >> yes. >> i just want to know what your opinion is. >> yes. >> your opinion is that trayvon martin may have been able to move some after sustaining the shot. you just don't know how much or for how long. >> yes. >> is that correct? >> yes, nobody know details. >> so because it's a matter of opinion. >> yes. >> okay. so have you done any studies yourself other than this one case you're talking about or consulted any research on that specific issue, how long somebody could move or talk, what physical activity they're capable of and for how long after sustaining a similar

injury? >> okay. for human study we cannot do experiment, so in this world, nobody knows -- >> your honor, the question -- he's not responsive. >> his answer is nobody knows. >> yeah, i gave -- >> just please wait for the next question. go ahead. >> i did not finish my answer. >> i understand. wait for your next question. >> you're saying there is no research available that would assist you in reaching the opinion? >> you cannot do this research. you cannot kill anybody to define -- >> sure, you can't do it in a laboratory. you can't shoot people in a laboratory. that's not what i'm talking about. >> so i believe the case i have three weeks ago, we have three weeks ago is one of the best in the world. very rarely you have clear picture after shot to the heart what he did, how he suffered. we have clear picture. very rare. i believe you can write a

publication will be read by everyone in the world. >> very good. you haven't done that yet. >> no, i have no time to write publication. >> and have you researched whether anybody else has on similar subjects? >> i did not do any other research. >> you mentioned on a lot of these issues you researched a lot of the material in the textbooks out there in the scientific community, correct? >> yeah, i do that routinely. >> so let's talk about -- >> i do that what? >> routinely. >> let's talk about, then, the gunshot wound itself. >> okay. >> do you agree, and is it your testimony and opinion that the damage to the shirts was as a result of contact with the muzzlimu muzzle of the gun and the fabric itself? >> yes, loose contact, i believe. >> do you agree and is it your opinion that the wound to the skin is not a contact wound?

>> no. >> are you saying it's your opinion that the wound to the skin is a contact wound? >> is not a contact. contact would be very, very different. >> so it's your opinion that the wound to the skin is not a contact wound? >> yes. >> and if it had been a contact wound, that would be a pretty easy thing for a medical examiner to see. >> yes. >> there would be tearing of the skin. >> yes, it's very easy. normally i can make decision in first five or three seconds. >> that's kind of a rookie thing, if you will. that's an obvious thing to someone with your background. >> yes, we do that almost every day. >> so what your testimony ultimately is, that there is some distance between the fabric and the skin -- >> no, i did not say between the

fabric and skin. between the skin and the muzzle of the gun. there's some distance. >> that's what i'd like you to be clear on so i understand. >> okay. >> you're saying that there is some distance between the muzzle of the gun and the skin. >> okay. when i say contact, it's not contact to the clothes. it's contact to the skin. >> are you saying that if you contact the clothing and the clothing is next to the skin, that you're not going to see evidence of a contact wound on the skin? >> it depends how you contact them. there are two contacts. loose contact and hard contact. if you -- the gun through the clothes press the clothes very hard to contact skin, then i would say the imprint of the fiber of the clothing on the

skin. >> you would also see that pattern you're talking about, the tearing. >> you may not see that if it's hard contact. >> so you're saying if the barrel of the gun were pushed against the fabric against the skin, that you would see fibers in the skin. you might see the tearing but not necessarily. >> i cannot answer the question because in this case i believe it is not. >> you believe what is not? >> i don't believe it is contact. in my autopsy report, i give you three ranges. contact, intermediate, and indeterminate. means i cannot tell. so in this case, for me, it's also like a three-second question. he had a stippling, it's interneinte intermediate range. for me, i'm different from the firearm technician. they use the chemical method or use actual shooting to determine

the range they give you. >> so let's talk about how -- >> i use the definition. so if it is stippling, it is intermediate range. if it's intermediate range, it's stippling. >> let's just break that down a little bit more. >> okay. >> if it's not contact, then it's the next closest distance by your definition would be intermediate. >> yes. >> there's no such thing as close range. >> some people do that. in this case, some people will call close range. i don't do that because -- >> so you go from either contact to intermediate. >> yes. >> and in your mind, based upon the resource materials, intermediate can be from less than half an inch all the way

out to four feet? >> yes, less than 0.4 inch to four feet. that's what i said in the deposition. >> and the way you know that is because you know it's not contact and that you see some of the stippling or the tattooing. >> yes. >> and you know that there is a point, there is a distance where the gun powder drops off. somewhere around four feet. so if the shot is beyond four feet -- >> you cannot see the stippling, yes. >> you're not going to see any stippling. >> yes. >> you're only going to see the bullet hole. >> yes, for this case, after i determine it's intermediate range pattern, then i search the book. i find out the closest -- >> let me be clear. have you changed your opinion now? >> no -- i did not change

opinion. the book still there. book still same. >> which books are you referring to? >> i have several books on my shelf. >> did you refer to any of the books by dr. vincent demaio? >> yes, his books are one of them. >> so you consulted his book on gunshot wounds? >> yes. >> after consulting his book and others, have you now changed or refined your opinion that the distance of the shot is 0.4 inches to four feet? >> no, i did not. i made a determination before your deposition. i did not have new experience, new reading about this matter since deposition. everything is the same. >> okay. so just to be clear then, you cannot offer anymore precise distance from the muzzle of the gun to trayvon martin's skin than somewhere between 0.4 inches and four feet.

>> yes. that's what i did. that's what i said in the deposition. my position, my opinion still the same. >> that's your position today? >> yes. >> you accept as a matter of trying to determine distance that at the end of the muzzle in addition to projectile, gun powder comes out. >> yes. >> and it's the gun powder pattern that you've called stippling -- >> yes. >> and the amount, how far it spread and such can help identify the distance. >> no, i will not worry about how far it spread. so this is just one to one. if i say stippling, it's the intermediate range. it's intermediate range, it's stippling. >> we're going to take a quick break from the testimony in sanford, florida. we're listening again to the doctor who performed the autopsy on trayvon martin's body. he's being cross-examined by the

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you're watching "news nation." we want to take you back to sanford, florida, where are tth george zimmerman trial continues with the medical examiner who performed the autopsy on trayvon martin's body. let's listen in. >> let's make sure we cover a few things. you did a report, and i think it was six pages, correct? >> seven page -- i mean, my notes? >> you did a report, but you also made notes too. >> yeah, seven pages of notes. >> and your report detailed your diagnosis and findings, did it not? your medical examiner report detailed -- >> oh, yeah, the autopsy report. >> the autopsy report. >> let me see. >> okay. >> total of six pages. >> all right. you documented your findings in this case. >> yes. >> in terms of the gunshot

wound, detailing, describing the -- >> yeah, autopsy report because you cannot rely on your memory to testify the truth because you don't know the truth, okay. >> so at that time it was very fresh in your mind and you did it that same day. >> yes. >> and you documented your findings on the report. >> yes. >> then you created some notes to help you testify in court so hopefully it would be easier. >> yes. >> okay. like make sure you had your name down write and all your education so it would be easy for the jury. >> yeah, even before the deposition i spent a whole weekend from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. i come to my office, i lay down everything, i try to figure out what i can remember. >> right. >> i could not remember anything. >> okay. in fact, in the deposition you provided both sides, defense and state, with some answers to some very simple questions about what a homicide is, the definition of

intermediate range pattern, correct? >> yes. >> and you put in terms of 0.4 inches to four feet. >> yes, based on the literature i used. >> yes, sir. and you also provided to both counsel the -- and i'm going to mispronounce it. the inter -- >> intermediate. >> tell me again. that's where you have clothing, right? >> oh, yeah, the intermediary. intermediary means you have something between the muzzle of the gun and the target, or skin of trayvon martin. >> as you stated in the notes you provided counsel, you believe in this case there was something, the two sweatshirts. >> yes. >> correct? okay. now, you also -- a lot of photographs were taken. in those photographs -- your honor, may i have assistance with the lights? i apologize.

i want to go back to two of the photographs. number 89 -- i'm sorry. 89 and 88. when the body came in, when trayvon martin's body came in, did you yourself have to look at the hands yourself? >> yes, i look at everything. >> why do you have to look at the hands? >> because -- yeah, look at -- now look at picture. now i understand why we did not do the photo of palm. when people die, the hand not raised, the contraction of the muscle. my job, the first thing, i want to bend them out. after i release my hand, the hand go back again like this. it's very difficult to take a picture without my hand to bend them and ask another guy to take a picture. i think that's why we did not take picture for this case. we do not do picture for palm for any other case. >> and if -- >> it's difficult. >> if there was blood there, would you have taken pictures to document there was evidence that

was important? >> yes. >> and there wasn't any blood or injury to the palms of his hands? >> i look at myself every case. i believe in this case i do something. >> okay. all right. in other words, you're saying when you die, your body kind of curls up. >> yeah, yeah. it's standard. everybody do that after they die. >> okay. and you also mentioned the injury, state's exhibit number 97. since you did find something there, you documented that by photograph, correct? >> yes, yes. >> okay. thank you, your honor. i think that's it for the lights. i'm going to ask him some more questions. thank you. you were asked about the scrapings of the fingernails that was done by one of your technicians that works for you. >> yes. >> and he's trained to do that, or did he just -- did you just

tell somebody that day, hey, come in here? >> he was trained to do his job. he had previous experience with some other job and after he came in, we have senior technician train him to do the job. after three months we decide he knows everything. >> objection -- >> stop one second. >> he's vouching for a witness that's not here and subject to cross-examination. >> can you move on? >> i'll move on, your honor. may i approach the witness? >> you may. >> some blood was recovered, correct, for dna purposes, correct? >> yes. >> the bottom line, dr. bao, whether it's from one to three minutes or one to ten minutes, he was going to die and never recover from this gun shout wound, correct? >> he had no chance.

there are two defects on the heart. >> so the bottom line, it could be as little as one minute up to three minutes or up to ten minutes, correct? >> yes. >> and in your deposition you stated from one to three minutes, but you recently came across a case where somebody lived ten minutes, correct? >> yes. >> and by the way, in terms of -- you didn't go to the scene, correct? >> no, i did not go to the scene. >> i object to the leading nature of the last several questions. >> okay. this question, if it's just to get to a point in testimony, i will allow it. >> you were asked by mr. west to, i think, at some point review your investigator's report that went to the scene. do you recall that? >> yeah -- i did not go to scene. i just rely on her report here. i do not want to testify on her

behalf because i don't have facts. >> you didn't go to the scene yourself? >> yeah, so i don't have opinion. >> if the evidence showed photographs there at the scene by the police department that the body was covered in a tarp -- a tarp was covered over the body. would that in some way protect the body? >> yes, before i came here i did review the same photos. not because i went to the scene but because i reviewed photos. >> you reviewed photos taken by the investigator? >> yes, a few days ago. even yesterday. >> right. was there indication that the body had been coffvered at the scene? >> it recalled into my memory, my new memory, not my memory one year ago, that the body was covered by orange something. >> okay. when you say in terms of trayvon martin in terms of the one-minute minimum, up to three minutes and all that, in other words, his brain was still functioning, but he wasn't able -- was he able to get up

and do jumping jacks and all this stuff or not? >> i believe the brain is at minimal functioning. i don't think he can move based on my case, our case three weeks ago. >> okay. all right. don't refer to it the other case. just based on your experience, you don't think he can move around? >> i don't know trayvon martin's case. i have to refer to previous case to predict trayvon's case. >> we will continue to follow the testimony that you're hearing right now. the mention who performed the autopsy on trayvon martin's body. we're going to go to a break. our continuing coverage of the trial will resume in three minutes. ♪ for a strong bag that grips the can... get glad forceflex. small change, big difference.

because all these whole grains aren't healthy unless you actually eat them ♪ multigrain cheerios. also available in delicious peanut butter. healthy never tasted so sweet. hello. i'm al sharpton live from the great city of new orleans for the 19th annual essence festival. the city is packed for this epic celebration of culture, art, and music. the stars are here.

beyonce, maxwell, steve harvey, brandy, l.l. cool j. the list goes on and on. for the first time ever, msnbc is broadcasting live from the event. i've been to essence festival every single year since it began. it's an incredible experience, and i'm proud to share it with you starting today and continuing throughout the weekend. but we start with george zimm zimmerm zimmerman's second-degree murder trial. for the first time, trayvon martin's mother took the stand in a gripping testimony. sybrina fulton testified about one of the most critical questions in this case, saying that she was certain it was her son's voice screaming on that critical 911 call. the jury also heard testimony from trayvon martin's older