from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪ where is the republican party booth here at the essence festival? plus buddy here to debate school vouchers. and the one and only ileana van zandt joins me live. first, more nerdland from new orleans, where it's time it fight back and be heard. good morning, i'm melissa

harris-perry. this is our second day at the essence festival in new orleans, which is a celebration of black music and culture. it is also a special opportunity for me to bring nerdland to my hometown. we have a lot to get to this morning. but first we want to give you the latest on that plane crash in san francisco. investigators are trying to determine what caused asiana airlines flight 214 to crash at the airport yesterday killing at least two people and injuring more than 180 others. just moments ago an ntsb official spoke with my colleague steve kornacki. >> i can tell you we had a couple of investigators here from california yesterday afternoon. they were able to secure the black boxes and get them out on a red eye under federal supervision yesterday evening. we arrived around midnight, had an opportunity to go to the accident site. i can tell you that we're very thankful we don't have more

titlities and injuries given the devastation i saw. >> for more, lets go to nbc's john yang at san francisco international airport. >> reporter: melissa, good evening -- good morning, rather. federal investigators are continuing to poor over the burned out wreckage of asiana flight 214. you can see behind me. they are all trying to figure out exactly why this plane came in essentially short of the runway, the tail striking a seawall at the end of the runway and hitting the runway so hard, they lost the tail assembly, lost landing gear, skidded off the runway. two people, as you say, were killed. officials identified them as two 16 years old girls from china. they were part of one of two middle school groups on board the plane coming here for a summer camp that would include trips to college campuses around the area. meanwhile about four dozen people remain hospitalized in hospitals from san francisco

down to stanford university in palo alto. there are at least five people in critical condition, one of them an infant. melissa. >> thank you to nbc's john yang. obviously that news is very sad and we will continue to follow it. now, for regular viewers of this program, you know that sometimes it becomes a platform at times to take a critical look at, well, louisiana politics. in particular the man we refer to as fbj, forget bobby jindal. this morning we need to expand the scope because of radical republican assault on our rights, particularly voting rights, in state after state. in north carolina, they are fighting every week to make sure that unfettered access to the polls and other hard fought victories aren't stripped away by republican led state assembly. tomorrow marks the tenth week of moral monday protest in north carolina, protests over radical

republican legislative agenda. they have grown from dozens of supporters when they began april 29th to thousands. demonstrators are protesting new limits on abortion rights which were approved by the state senate on wednesday, sharp cuts to unemployment benefits, which decreased the benefit amount time, which people can receive aid and repeal of racial justice act, which helps convicted murderers to get death sentences improved in sentence if racial bias can be proved in trial. if we look at attempts to suppress the vote in this state and states other than south carolina, june 25th, strike down a key part of the voting rights ac, a number of states moved immediately, and i mean immediately, to launch latest assaults on voting rights. states include texas, mississippi, alabama, virginia. governor rick perry was down right beside himself over the

court's ruling saying in a statement, texas may now implement the will of the people without being subject to outdated and unnecessary oversight and overreach of federal power. so it came as no surprise when mere hours after the supreme court ruling, texas officials said they would enforce a strict voter id rule, a measure that had been blocked previously by a federal court because it would overwhelmingly affect black and latino voters. this fight, the one we saw so much of, in the last election twomp is far from over. in fact, because of the supreme court ruling it is back and more dangerous than ever. but the solution might be simple. fight back. be heard. vote. speak. and do it now. joining me now, president and director counsel of the naacp legal defense fund. also mark, a new orleans home boy, president and ceo of the national urban league and former

mayor of the city of new orleans. congresswoman eleanor holmes norton, an icon of mine and democratic delegate for washington, d.c. and a nerdland favorite, shirley, co-author of "the courage to hope, how i stood up to the politics of fear." thank you. we were saying earlier, here we are in the atmosphere of essence. it's a party, a great time. we're listening to music. you and i are both shaking with rage about what is going on with voting rights in this country. >> it's astonishing, meteorologist. i haven't been able to move past the decision. it isn't surprising. this is what they thought would happen. when they passed it they wanted section 5 to protect again any ingenuous plans that southern jurisdictions might come up with in the future to suppress minority voting rights. as you said, hours after the supreme court's decision the attorney general of texas

couldn't wait to issue a statement. he tweeted a fact he was going to implement texas voter id law. that doesn't allow students to use their student id, does allow people that have a concealed gun permit to vote. we represent students who had been using their id until that law has been implemented. we've been hearing from all over the country, texas, alabama, georgia, north carolina. it's astonishing, exactly what congress thought would happen has happened. you're right. we have to fight back. >> it feels like the only solution is to arm all the students in texas, since the texas campuses allow you to carry concealed weapon. obviously that's nuts. mark, it feels like what she was saying about the notion of ingenuous attempts. i'm actually stunned in north carolina about how exciting and innovative these republicans are with their ability to come up with whole new ways to strip the right to vote. >> you can call them ingenuous,

i call them shenanigans. it's just old-fashioned politics wrapped in new clothing. it's a 20th vengery effort. it requires us to resist. this is a struggle and a battle that has taken on a moral dimension. protection of democracy and voting rights is beyond politics. it's who we are as a nation. it's about our values as a country and reaffirmation of the work done 50 years ago to create these protections. look, i'm a son of the south. i love this city. the south has changed because of the civil rights act, voting rights act, because of the work done 50 years ago. this decision by the supreme court, make no mistake about it, will cause the south to retrogress. >> one of the things i wanted to have you here, no one knows more about it, losing protection,

residents of washington, d.c., although they can vote within their own city, have long been subjects of the federal government. what should we learn from the residents of d.c. about how to have a voice even when those would take the vote from us. >> i think what you learned from my district is that struggle is always necessary. now, i'm not among those who are wringing her hands about this bill. i was there in 2006 when we authorized the act. now, if you all think that wasn't a nice little party, i can tell you that by the time we went to the front steps, no less, of the capital, led by the republican and democratic leadership, the very -- mcconnell himself, boehner himself and the democratic leadership proud of the fact that we have fought our way through to reauthorize the act.

the act was due to expire. we argued that if it expired, how would we revive it. now, what has happened is terrible. i still believe the texas id law violates the voting rights act and that we can go back and get that. >> under section 2. >> under section 2, especially since the federal court has already found that it was in violation of the act. let me tell you what else we have to do. instead of wringing our hands, we have to do what many of us are doing. many of us in the congress are already discussing how to revise this act. we've got more than what we had before. the republicans were afraid they would look racist. now look what they have got. we're in the middle of the immigration bill. you've not only got us, who are black, you've got hispanics who you're trying to move. just mess with us on the voting rights act.

mess with us. you've got two allies who are determined to get this act reviewed and revised. >> i love the energy you bring. when we come back from ba, i'm going ask you how likely you think this 113th is. before we do that, i've been feeling very much like that post civil rights generation in the wringing of my hands saying it's so bad. my dad says you think the 113th congress is bad, you should have seen what we faced. part of what i'm asking of you, how do we at this moment now say, this is bad but not the worst we've ever faced? >> well, i can tell you back when i went to register to vote in 1965 just before the voting rights act passed, i went to the courthouse and the sheriff pushed me and others back out of the courthouse. i couldn't register the first time i tried. i could only register after the voting rights act passed. now, i feel like we've gone

back -- in my home county, baker, where i first went to register to vote, they are closing, since this -- since the supreme court ruled, they have decided to close all but one polling place. >> wow. >> the attorney for the county told them, you can do anything you want to now. there's no oversight by the federal government. can you imagine people in the rural area having to drive 15 and 20 miles to vote? they won't do it. >> that point is such an important one. it's about this third reconstruction we find ourselves. hang tight, we're coming right back after the break. i want to get more into the ruling and whether or not the 113th is going to be able to do anything to help us. much more from the essence festival in new orleans when we come back. ♪

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but anyone can help a foster child. i'm melissa harris-perry. we're live at the essence festival in new orleans. we've been talking about the assault on voting rights and how that will disproportionately impact african-american communities and other communities of color. what's important to remember about the act, it did not strike down preclearance of section 5, instead struck down the farm la used to determine the states and areas subject to preclearance. because, according to chief justice john roberts opinion, congress's formula re-enacted a formula based on 40 year facts having no logical relation to

the present day. yeah, whatever. so now the ball is in congress's court to come up with a new formula for states that need to be under preclearance so that all voters will be protected. this is the same congress that's on track to do even less than the last congress which set the record for the fewest bills signed into law. so councilman norton, you are the first person to make me feel like 113th can come up with a formula, because maybe we can hold mcconnell's feet to the fire their 2006 behavior. >> of course, that was a different congress. we recognize that. there was 98-0 in the house, only 33 members in the senate, only 33 members of the house voted against the bill. what do you do about this new house? well, first of all, it's important we have the same leadership. much more important is that the mission has been given to the republican who got the bill

through in the first place. we were in, we passed the video authorization with a republican president, a republican house and republican senate. they ought to get off and glow in that. tim sensenbrenner, no longer the chair, they rotate chairs, has been given by the chair the mission of proceeding on this matter. what has he said, unequivocally we must reauthorize the voting rights act. lets look at the majority rights leader, eric cantor, mr. bad man. he went to selma this year with john lewis. >> we've got to pull all the tape. >> pull -- >> don't cry in your soup. >> i'm optimistic that we can do something. but i think one thing for the listeners and viewers, we have

to build public will. that's why we need a large presence in washington around the commemoration of the 50th anniversary, which is a continuation. a march. we need people to go online. they can go to national urban league, occupy the web page, weigh in, sign petitions, be a part of this effort. >> let me push you on that, marc. for some of us, we have felt like the apparatus of organizations that emerge in the civil rights movement became over the course of the 1980s and '90s more bound and bureaucratic and removed from what felt like struggle. it felt more like managing what the winds had been 50 years ago. now i'm looking at north carolina where the local naacp is out there for 10 weeks, hundreds of people getting arrested, trying to draw attention. national naacp is not doing as much kind of around that to make sure. i just want to know are those civil rights organizations going to -- you can only speak for urban league. >> national urban league,

national action network, naacp and a whole coalition have come together around trying to build a mass mobilization in washington on august 24th, 25th, and several days around that. there's a new generation of leadership, shirley, others of us of it's important with social med yarks the challenge we face, we step up to the responsibility of now, protect the voting rights and not be mired in what happened 10, 20 years ago. >> we must meet the challenge. >> naacp defense fund we represented black voters in alabama in the case that went -- >> in shelby. >> we have a three-point plan because something has to change and can change. number one, there's still as you say section 5 but other rights of the voting act. delegate tucked about texas.

all of these are places we can challenge discriminatory practices under voting rights act. we're asking people to write to us when you hear about the polling place changes mrs. sherrod was talking about. we need the information. all these attorney generals talking and saying what they are going to do, let them talk, but tell us about it. we use that information in our litigation. >> you can still take these suckers to court. >> give us the stuff. secondly, have you called your congressman yet? have you started to let them feel the fire? they need to feel we're demanding. they may be do nothing congress but they are going to do something this year. we've got to demand that. thirdly, that mass mobilization august 24th, 50th anniversary of the march on washington, it's critical. you've got to show congress we're going to demand this. if we're working those two strategies, mobilization, litigation at the same time, we can change this thing. >> i want to underline just one

thing especially for those in the south. as often our congressman is a democrat, often a member of the congressional black congress. it's not only calling your congressperson but senator. i may have said my congressman but i plan to call him as well. >> you know what else we need, we need the elected officials, who are the fruit of success in the voting rights act to step up and be involved in a mobilization. i challenge every leader to say something, do something, be part of this effort to protect democracy. this is our generation's cause and challenge to step up in a battle that's important for now. >> got to go but i am keeping some of these folks so i'll get my last question in to mrs. sherrod when we come back. but i want to say thank you for those making the call to protect the generation of voting rights act. do go anywhere. when we come back i'll show off

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iyanla vanzant.of time scrappin corporations over their treatment of their workers and their consumers. coca-cola has tried to escape blame in its roll for the obesity epidemic. workers in other fast-food chains have gone on strike to demand better pay. then it's walmart with its every day low wages. credit where credit is due. all three of those companies, no matter how evil their policies will be are here at the essence festival, putting in their time and making the effort to connect with the african-american community. you know who is not here, who could use a little more

connection to african-americans, the republican party. so i thought we would go for a little look and see whether or not the gop is here to search it out. i'm going to try to find some -- the gop here. but no, i don't see gop at the essence. that's our guy, steady cam guy. you don't have to take my word for the fact there's no gop, we're looking around. look at this guy. he's our steady cam operator. there's the convention center in new orleans. there's verizon. steady fly, do we see a republican party booth anywhere? any gop, any local booth in i don't know, maybe just an elephant. no, that might be the deltas. nothing? sorry. you know what, maybe that's actually by design, because some vocal republican thought leaders lately have been advising the gop to just focus on getting more white voters out to the

poll. as fox news said, hispanic is 8.5% of the electorate, something like that, is not nearly as important as the white vote, which is above 70%. so that's the plan, the hispanic vote is not such a big deal. we'll put all the gop eggs in a white basket. really? when the census bureau says whites will be a minority in the next 30 years. we'll see how that works out for you. and you not at essence, you're also missing beyonce. ♪ i would say my car. probably the car. cause as you get older you start breaking down. i love my car. i want to take care of it. i have a bad wheel - i must say. my car is running quite well. keep your car healthy

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we just sent our steady cam segue to try to find the republican booth here at the essence festival. of course, we came up with

nothing. it's just one more piece of evidence chairman priebus and his colleagues aren't interested in a bigger tent. former governor of louisiana, buddy romer, former presidential candidate and chairman of the reform candidate. my friend fellow msnbc host of "all in" chris hayes. nice to have you both here. >> good to be here. >> let me ask you this, is the republican party even making a superficial effort to do the work of outreach to minorities. >> there is a superficial when michael steele was running rnc. then the day after the election, there was this consensus, everyone in the republican party, we're getting our butts kicked, bigger tent, bigger tent. the further it moves from that election to midterm election, the more the devil on gop shoulder starts to whisper in their ear, maybe we could just get by on white folks. maybe if we really put our back

into white folks, think about what that would mean for the party, more sense of cultural grievance and society to juice the white vote. >> it's also an assumption of what white voters care about. you've been a republican, you've been a democrat, independent, but a populist. someone who says you can't figure out what a person's political interests are based on what their race is. >> it's deeper than that. but lets talk about the republicans. they have yet to cross the divide in terms of outreach. they are doing better with the hispanics and their approach. look at the young republican leaders in the country. they are more and more from the hispanic party. the same thing needs to happen with other minorities, including the representative here at essence. the reason they are not here, they adopt have a structural

commitment to growth. it's that simple. i don't think it's about racism, personality. i think it's a structural commitment to growth. republicans don't have it. what they want is purity. what they try to do is get performance with purity. look at their performance. they have lost four of the last six national presidential elections. it's not working, guys. >> there is a structural problem. we see it planted in the house. it starts in the house. in the senate where people have to represent whole states, it's an understanding we are going under. in the house where they jerry meandered themselves in, old white, there was some women in there, too. >> when you gerr own vote in yo

own district ends up being against immigration reform, against voting rights act, you have a big structural problem. >> why boehner can't -- >> that structural problem with mr. romer may be with us for 10 years unless we throw enough struggle at them so we get some of their whites to see their party is going to go down with us. >> i wanted to ask this question, is this question about interracial coalition. on the one hand, here is the republican party failing to attempt on the right but i worry about the ability of an interracial coalition to hold on the left, for the democratic party to be able to hold immigration interest and civil rights and lgtb and rural interest all in one party. who do we start thinking about how to show our commonality in

these struggles? >> that's a good question. you know, that's a good question. i'm just not sure. we know these issues are here. we know we need to work on them together. but when you're in the rural ar area, one thing can play out on the national area, but when you get in the rural area, so much has changed and so much hasn't changed. people kind of know their places and stayed in them. now they get confirmed in them by the supreme court ruling. >> you've got an opposite problem, which is not a difficult electoral program for democrats but a mirror image of the fact gop isn't here. those same politics means republicans routinely win areas. it's hard for democrats to have that as part of the coalition of interests represented when those aren't the folks that are there. they have a mirror image

problem. the advantage for democrats is that that portion of the population is small and shrinking and the portion the gop is alienating is growing. >> part of this is the key structural problem. the voters in these districts represented by the folks in this room are stacked and packed into often congressional black districts where sometimes you have great representatives and active primaries. more often than not you don't have that they are such safe district, what you bring back are never asked. >> let me make two points, if i could. one is the necessity is the mother of invention. this will happen when it's required. when leaders say we can't win any other way. others have come to the conclusion. >> they sort of did and walked back on it. >> i know.

that's one. back to my point on structure. the essence of structure in congress is money, special interest money. you've heard this speech before. i won't beat your head in. >> give it to us. >> you want to make these two parties better, take away power of special interest money and put people in its place, this world will have a revolution. >> i've talked about the radical agenda, it's the art pope revolution, the fact one perp was able to buy a state. sounds like i'm overstating that but i'm not. >> please lets go back to why we're having this discussion about immigration in the first place. what can trump money are people getting out there. how did we get to the point where everybody now is trying to -- including even some in the house, the version of the gang of eight who fell apart to try

to please hispanics because they came out in record numbers. they are in some of these very distribution we are discussing now. they can do it again if we do it again ourself. nothing happens without people coming out. they can't buy us. >> you know who the single highest turnout in the last election 2012, 70% of african-american women turned out to vote. we have a right to have our issues and voices heard. this is an issue we've made a focal point. we are going to come back and talk more about this question of poor children. literally the willingness of congress to let poor children go hungry. again, i'm not exaggerating. when we're back.

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will try to rally support for the farm bill. the bill failed last month thanks to conservatives who thought the bill's $21 billion in cuts to the so-called food stamp program were not severe enough. this time there are reports that house majority leader eric cantor may try to split the food stamp program known as snap from the farm provisions of the bill in order to pick up more conservative votes. that may actually be good news for families who rely on food stamps because money has been apportioned to the snap program and will continue at current levels if congress fails to act. all right. miss sherrod, the farm bill is the thing that put rural interest and african-american interest together into one bill and the interest of the poor together into one bill, so you couldn't split them up. now cantor is prepared to split them up. how bad could this be? >> that would be really bad. we look at what happens in terms

of food through the snap program but the farm bill covers so much more, especially when you get in the rural area. that's housing. there are jobs. all of that is included in the farm bill. when you take that away. then the help for small farmers. when you talk about subsidy, the big farmers have gotten big money but the little money that the small farmer gets can mean a difference in whether they can pay their taxes and stay on the farm or whether they lose the farm or not. >> a delay makes a difference. going out like this could make a difference. >> it does. it really hurts small farmers. these are the people -- these are the backbone -- this the backbone of our country. these are the people who care for the land. these are the people who take it seriously -- your food seriously and grow it in a way that's

better for you. >> right. without all the genetically modified foods. >> they left a trillion dollars on the table with this bill. they want to get this bill out. i went on the snow called snap challenge, some of us went on the food stach challenge for a week, $31.50. don't try it. we starved. we tried our best to show $20 billion reduction would be a catastrophe for 45 million americans. splitting it would have some short-term benefits. we have extended the farm bill before. the problem is you break up the coalition, which has kept this farm bill going. sure, that's $5 billion in there for people who farm, whether or not they farm or not. that's the waste. that's how you put together sausage. >> that's how you roll that love. there was an amazing, we talked

about on break, long form article in the "post" about attempting to address childhood hunger. this is not a foreign problem. this is a problem in american cities. >> one in four kids in this country is somehow dependent on the government to eat, whether through free reduced breakfast and lunch at schools or snap program. >> or wick. >> when school is out in the summer, there becomes a problem of getting nutrition to kids. this is an amazing piece in the "washington post" about a bus going through rural appalachia for kids who weren't able to get to school to get the meal for kids. we saw welfare structured, a congress that isn't interested in 7.7% unemployment, cutting unemployment benefits. every part of the social safety net is hacked away. >> by the way, all you women with unplanned pregnancies, you're not going to have to have

those children. >> this is one very bake thing that shouldn't be that controversial, which is basically in america, in the year 2013, we're a wealthy society, we should not starve. >> lets feed people. >> this isn't a complicated policy. that's all the program does, give money to people to buy food so they don't starve. after we've watched conservative and conservative democrats cut away social safety aspects, this is the last people. >> stay with us. thank you to chris hayes, representative holmes norton and shirley sherrod. buddy is sticking around. after the break, the high cost of higher education, which schools the heightened loan rates could hurt the most. that's up next. ♪

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as a college professor, i know how important deadlines can be and so do my students in new orleans at tulane university. you know who doesn't share an urgency for deadlines? congress. they missed a deadline to keep new student loan rates from doubling from 3.4% to 6.8%. according to this msnbc report. that means an extra $761 for every loan they take out through the program. the effect on students at historically black colleges and universities could be especially harsh. in addition to student loan interest rate loan hike since 2011 stricter reviews from the parent loan program hit hbus especially hard. because both the colleges and black families tend to rely significantly on plus loans, financial concerns recently prompted this warning for a

board member at howard university. quote, howard will not be here in three years if we don't make some crucial decisions now. with me is the man i love to debate on issues of school vouchers and other things education, former louisiana governor. also the executive director of kids rethink new orleans schools. steve perry, dr. steve perry, educator and tv one host and sarah carr, education reporter and author of "hope against hope." thank you for being here. let me start with you, dr. perry, because i know your effort is that k through 12 effort. you are getting kids college ready and out the door to college. how much does it impact them if they don't have the ability to borrow to pay for college. >> we're being crushed. we get 100% of our graduates into four-year colleges only to find out they are not going in the fall because their parents' credit is bad, because they don't have enough.

hbcus, where the endowments are much smaller. our kids may make it through the first semester, they be coming home. in the past that was an excuse but now it's for real. >> you might start with a scholarship that covers, say, 80% of tuition. then the next year when tuition rises, now all of a sudden that gap rises and that gap rises each time. >> one of the most well-known black colleges, actually we have a number of students there. what happened was they said that they give out a freshman package. the freshman package is more robust than the sophomore package. what happens is they get the grades, they do what they need to do and end up back home. >> that feels to me -- you graduated from an hbcu. at this moment there's an argument do we need historically black college. if they go away, what difference does it make, we're integrated, post racial, go off to flan, doesn't matter if we have the other kids. make the claim why we still ned

them. >> we absolutely need them. i'm a graduate from hampton university, i come from five generations educated in these "sky sports new"s. dedicated to service, taking the degree, giving back to your community, being in an environment that's not only quality but nurturing. we need these schools. interest rates and debt they are having will have an adverse effect on students. >> feels like the other place is undoubtedly going to impact students. the other is state universities. what happens is we end up instead going to for profit colleges like university of phoenix, instead of going to lsu because they can't figure out a way to figure out the loan package. thinking about money and politic, should we be thinking about a way to take financial incentive, profit margin out of higher education? >> i don't know that that's the

answer. sometimes a striving toward incentive to profit can be a good thing. here is what the government can do. it can set the ground rules for access to an affordable college education. it's important for black state colleges and universities and colleges and universities across the board. we ought to do something different. we ought to try what congress tried in the early 1930s with rural electrification. they provided 2% money to burning electricity to the country part of america and it changed america. it paid enormous dividends. these weren't gifts. these were loans. they set the rate for 20 years at 2%. we could do the same thing for colleges and universities. we know what the cost of borrowing on a 10-year note for the federal government, 2.15%. we could set that rate for 10 years and provide it for qualified students going to any college in america.

we could have some performance and some cost scores and make a decision. >> so we loan to our kids at the same rate the federal government pays. >> yes. >> at 6.8% we're talking about the interest rate higher than the prevailing 30-year mortgage rate. that strikes me as who is going to take that loan. >> the impact of that, it determines what some kids can and can't do leaving school. they can't come into education, social work. >> they can't go into the professions that would allow them to give back. they have to always think about how do i earn the most amount of money. >> it's not just the students. it's every person in america would benefit from these youngsters being the best they can be. that's the trouble in the country. we go at half rates. we ought for stand for these kids. >> that's peak what i want to come back. what everyone at this table cares about is making sure kids have an opportunity and a chance. what we disagree without is the ways to get there. that's what makes it exciting

and fun the coming up next, the debate i've been waiting to have with buddy since he and i did it on tulane's campus a few months back. we're going to talk about the issue of school vouchers. plus the later in the show, best selling author speakereana -- i willan la vanzant. you see the special psyllium fiber in metamucil actually gels to trap and remove some waste. and that gelling also helps to lower some cholesterol. it even traps some carbs to help maintain healthy blood sugar levels as part of your diet. now that's one super hard working fiber. metamucil. 3 amazing benefits in 1 super fiber. ♪

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i made you something, too. ♪ see you next summer. ♪ [ male announcer ] get exceptional values on the highest quality cars at the summer of audi sales event. ♪ welcome back. i'm melissa harris-perry. we are here at the essence festival in new orleans. i have to tell you, i know you can't see it, there's a whole exercise, zumba, twerking going on. never like this in the studio in new york. i'm here at this point to talk about education. louisiana has played a key part in the national debate over school vouchers. the governor of louisiana, you know, fbj, forget bobby jindal,

he wanted to put students from low in come families into private schools using millions of dollars from public schools to cover tuition. his school voucher program was ruled unconstitutional by the louisiana supreme court in may backing up a state judge's earlier ruling. this week two other republican-led states got bolder with their school voucher plans. the budget, the current ohio governor john kasich signed sunday night expanded eligibility for school vouchers. sunday wisconsin governor scott walker, a favorite around here, signed a budget that grows an existinging system of taxpayer funded school vouchers and makes performance data about those schools more secret. joining me now is the man i love to debate on the issue of school vouchers, louisiana governor, also the executive director of kids rethink new orleans schools, dr. streef perry educator and tv one hass and education reporter and author of

"hope against hope." all right, buddy. make the vouchers case. >> well, they are not the answer but they are a tool that will approach an answer. that's all. i don't want to exaggerate their effect good or bad. what i like about them, they take families who don't have a choice like rich americans do to send their kids to a rich school or private school, allows these relatively poor families so choose. that's very powerful and will change the system. that's the only case i make for vouchers, a tool in a country that needs a better education system. that's it. >> that language of choice is the language i've heard you use. it's the thing that creates a funny coalition between republican -- conservative republicans and often the african-american communities at odds on everything else but on

this they tend to be together. >> you can have the most right wing republican and black nationalist on the same place on this one because they understand that choice is vital. when a child doesn't have access to a school for them, they fail because it doesn't meet their academic or social needs. i believe choice is the issue. as the governor said, it's not the only answer, but it's part of an answer. to throw it away because most people tend to throw it away, it will cost some people their jobs was their schools are underperforming and the students will not go back to them. at the end of the day, we have to understand that the money was never intended to keep a school building at the bottom of your street open, it was intended to educate a child, period. >> sarah, what about what your book does, "hope against hope" bring empirical evidence to how vouchers work. i get the choice argument. it makes sense to me

theoretically, giving families money portable with kids allows them choices middle class and rich families have. it ends up not working that way. right? >> it's interesting. i feel like the rhetoric shifted over the last decade from voucher opponents saying it's going to improve academic outcomes for low in come students to this choice, choice, choice mantra. i think a large part of that academically it's been a fair bit of a wash. the places that had vouchers for a long time, milwaukee, cleveland, they are really not doing much better or worse than other families. >> not an abject failure. >> the critics said it would destroy public education as we know it. that hasn't happened. but at the same time it hasn't produced real or tangible gains for the families. >> sarah does an interest thing where part of what happens in the choice conversation we end up talking a lot about parents and the ability of parents to

make choices for their kids. what i love about rethink, the extent to which i guess partners matter but you really focus primarily on young people in the schools themselves. tell me what you hear from them on this question of choice. >> absolutely. what we're hearing from young people in new orleans, they want to go to a quality school that provides educational opportunities for every kid. for them it's about making sure every student has a chance to go to that great school, not just a small few. the rethinkers, the young people i work with, are saying we want to make sure our schools treat us fairly. we have discipline policies fair and restorative. we have good healthy school food, address education holistically. we're not thinking education itself is a quick fix. what about violence, trauma, what about factors that impact a child's ability to learn. our young people get it. they are saying we want you to do those things. >> that's one of the challenges i face here, dr. perry. i like these visions of schools that do these things.

one of my worries about vouchers is less whether the school on my block closes but the very idea i have to leave my neighborhood to have certain things. one thing true about new orleans, i'll talk to the mayor about this earlier, man, we live in two cities. in my neighborhood in the seventh ward, we don't have all kinds of infrastructure, including high-quality schools. something constructive, in order to have something good, have you to leave your hood. >> what we have to recognize, this is a global society. the essence festival is one example of how we can come together, african-americans from all over the world and share an experience. we don't talk about this myopic approach to community anymore. our children communicate with friends all over the world on a daily basis at the speed of light. we have to understand our community has expanded. as such the pedestrian ways in which we used to look at our

community has to expand as well. so many children like myself and the students i work with are bound by poverty. that means they don't go anywhere, from time to town. it's almost like they could fall off the edge of the earth, like the community is flat. what we do when we have schools like ours, a magnet school from 30 different communities, they get to go to a birthday party in the suburbs at other kids' house. >> i feel you. i do. there's a story about that that i love. my other thing is, having lived -- i've lived in a couple different places recently. i lived in extremely privileged community of princeton, new jersey where it was vastly predominantly white, overwhelmingly middle class white. they walked to school and knew their friends, rode their bikes, went to the healthy organic grocery store and lived in new orleans where none of that is happening. it does make a difference in the kids sense of security and independence in the world and the sense their school is part

of them and not just this thing that's out there. >> we say that about us but we don't say that when a student goes off to a boarding school. we say that about us but don't say it when they go off to a private school. only impactful when we talk about us. we need to expand, african-americans and poor people need to expand what our community is. the limits of that definition have limited our growth. >> i think the concern i have about the choice argument, it's somewhat of an illusion of choice. what we hear from parents on the ground, they made a choice to go to a certain school because of innovative schools they were counselled out or steered away because their kids had special needs. if we're going to talk about choice lets fund for all students, not take a cut our losses approach to education. >> where do we go in louisiana since the government's plan -- >> i think the government needs to take a stronger roll in being safeguard, accountable, bumper

system, defining choice. you're right, choice can be abused easily. it can be a wink and a nod. you get the choice. you do not get it. what the government needs to do, strongly and positively, it has transparency, access, and performance scores so that parents can make wise choices. and then finally, we as citizens need to work so that educators run the schools, not politicians and that we give as many choices as we can. here is what i've learned. i'm almost 70. i've learned that every kid is precious and every kid is different. we need as many different kind of excellent schools as we can put on the ground. that's what we need. whether they are in our neighborhood or not. we are, as dr. perry said, we are one world, a globe, and america is failing the test. i'm optimistic, melissa, because

of things like vouchers. not just vouchers but that and more. i'm optimistic about them. obama, and i don't praise him too much, but i give him full credit for education. he's done some powerful things. >> i will tell you what. i happen to know around here if you start talking about collective responsibility for one another's kids you get in big trouble. thank you. thank you. buddy is going to hang out a little bit longer. up next, after a deadly holiday weekend, how do we -- seriously, how do we stop the gun violence ravaging chicago, new orleans, and so many of our cities? we're going to be right back with more from the essence festival. [ male announcer ] this is george.

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in chicago, the sound of fourth of july fireworks had to compete with the sound of gunfire. in the city before the holiday weekend had barely begun. as of yesterday, gun violence in chicago had taken the lives of 11 people in four days and wounded 56 others, including two five and seven-year-old boys who were shot while visiting parks with their families. the latest ended with one person killed and seven wounded yesterday evening bringing total number of people shot since wednesday, i can't believe this, to 67. chicago is one of the cities across the country where the toll of death at the end of a gun continues to rise. seven months since we declared

the newtown shootings with enough is enough. rising death tolls still show no signs of stopping. three months sin background information failed to pass in the senate, there still maintains no viable policy solution to stem the tide of violence. with seemingly no end in sight, what are the possibilities for getting gun violence under control in cities. with me, chairman of the reform project.org and former governor of louisiana. executive director of the juvenile project of louisiana. superintendent of the new orleans police department and la toya cantrell, counsel member in the city of new orleans. this is a hewell new orleans centric panel but i want to be clear the things we face in violence in this city resonate in chicago and all these other places. let me start with you, chief. we're actually in a place where

things are better at the july 1 mark in new orleans than they have been for years. we're at 76 gun deaths as of july 1, 2013, which is down from 97 the year before and 105 in the two years previous to that. is this just a blip or have you done something that is actually making a difference? >> i think we're seeing a huge difference. momentum building in city of new orleans, inside the police department. nola for life part of the gun violence debate. we're down 20 to 30% every single year for the last five years for the first six months. the people of new orleans are standing up with its police department saying we're going to have enough. we're going to talk, identify, come to court. district attorney aggressively pursuing these cases. a new day is upon us by going after small numbers of young men who made terrible choices to hurt others, we're being efficient. violent crime overall down 10 to

12%. we're making headway. there's a lot of momentum in the city. >> no one wants to believe that more than me. i live six blocks from where the mother's day shooting happened. no one wants to believe we're getting this under control more than i do. couns councilwoman i wonder about rallying with the police department and moving forward. in part i feel like there's massive distrust in the nopd in communities of color that tends to be impacted by this violence. not just new orleans but chicago, detroit, a lot of cities that have this gun violence problem. >> the bottom line is we do have ensure we're working with our police department, but we also have to understand that this is truly a public health issue. we have to get to the issues of trauma that's in our community, our health disparities that are real, poverty, lack of economic opportunities, low performing

schools. all these things have an impact. what's going on in our households, making sure social services hitting the home. mental health services. there are disparities there, they are real. they have impact. we're seeing them on the ground. >> this is long and short-term. you change policing strategies but does feel like in order to change patterns of violence you need longer term. >> it's longer term. we have to dispel this notion of instant gratification. it's not going to happen. cdc release add report in '79 saying, america, hey, we're in a crisis here of gun violence. it is public health. this is the issue. so new orleans in teaming up with the police department, all our agencies in the city, we're going to address this holistically because that's the only way in our neighborhoods to

live. >> before the break, policing strategy, long-term human capital strategy on the break you whispered to me, hey, don't take my guns. honestly, i feel like that might be part of what we need to do. hey, your guns are taking my sons. in the end we may have to make some choices in the state of louisiana about reducing our willingness to allow everyone to be armed because the realities in some communities are that our children die as a result. >> a couple of big thoughts. one is our constitution for a variety of reasons. the militia at an early stage in our revolution has given every citizen the chance to own and bear a firemarm, responsibly, that's what laws are about. i love the conversation about attitude. let me repeat it. people are getting involved and

reporting on those who have firearms and don't deserve them, who abuse them. that's a change in character. it's not enough to say don't take my gun. i don't think that's what this issue is about. it's about what can we do onto keep people to stop abusing guns. we get publicity from big events in connecticut, where school children were massacred by this person with a lack of mental health. but the real problem is day to day, the balance in chicago, new orleans. it's going to take not new regulation so much as new attitude. they will require some new regulations. give me a chance to say the whole picture. i think that mental health ought to be a universal screen in this country with meaning to it. i think the check on criminality record of people.

i think we can pare down easy violence. then we have to work for more jobs, stronger economy, mental health. it's a complex situation. one new law won't change it. >> it won't change everything. there is a part long-term investment in human capital, of course, reasons related to gun violence and not. when we don't talk about the fact there's an access issue as well, it does feel like we start path pathologizing. >> we have to look at the fact, numbers in the country, people proportion ately impacted by gun violence are coming from neighborhoods with the highest unemployment, double the average of the rest of the city, that are not kented to employment opportunities, to educational

tons. and so certainly we have to ensure better regulation of access to guns. i support that. but we also need to pursue a more comprehensive strategy. if we're not talking about those close to 16,000 kids in new orleans ages 16 to 24 who are not connected to either employment or education and figuring out how are we prioritizing our resources to them, we're not going to actually address violence. >> when we come back, what those policies look like and how they fit with the policing strategies not only in new orleans but other communities across the country. we'll be right back with more from the essence festival in new orleans. i want to make things more secure. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting

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the highest murder rate in the united states. woo-hoo. now the dubious distinction is for the city of flint, michigan. it has led to little more than cautious optimism for people here who worry the summer months could bring more violence. let me ask you about this. when cities are trying to in the context of federal and state gun laws are, when cities are trying to stem the tide of gun violence, sometimes they have gone to stop and frisk we've seen in new york that actually alienates communities from their police department. i know again there's been a lot of critique from the new orleans police department. we're under a consent decree. what are step by step things a police department can do to effectively police but gain the trust of those communicates back. >> first thing, respect the constitution, professionalism, an idea, tell to stop.

tell people why you're doing what you're doing. 190,000 guns in 2012 were stolen or lost. we have to have responsible behavior associated with the guns by everybody. then when police engage the public, more often than not somebody tropical storm us. explain why you're doing what you're doing. take a few minutes. it helps. another thing we know. since 1940s, neighborhoods disorganized, higher concentrations of delinquency and crime. when you look at employment, education, previous criminal behavior, those are the things we have to address as a whole nola for life concept. we're going to be the best police depp in the country. we're making great headway. that's still not enough. we have to get men educated. we've got to get them to drop violent behavior and conflict

resolution. new orleans is like a lot of cities. you'd be surprised percentage of guns stolen out of people's cars and they didn't even lock the door. these are things that have to happen all the time. >> i'm thinking as a member of the city council, as you talk about the need for jobs, connecting people economically, whenever we talk about the murder rate in new orleans, some businessman somewhere sitting there thinking am i going to relocate my business to the city where there were 19 people shot on mother's day, where two 16 years old shot each other the other day in metairie. as a member of the city council you have a responsibility not only for what's happening here by the idea of building that economy. how do we create a safe city in new york, chicago, detroit so it will, in fact, bring economic development. goes into having direct can't on the groundworking with people in neighborhoods. that is people. respecting them not only to

bring them closer to education, of course creating those opportunities but understanding that the companies we want to lure into our city have a vested interest in our people as well. making sure when you come, you're going to hire our residents who live here. you're going to bring others. you need to respect people who currently live here because we value them. there is a value there. what does it look like from a policy perspective? >> it mean a percentage of the people that will make up your pool of applicants, and folks you will hire, what does that look like? let me know? i want to know a number, 35%. what are you looking for? i will match them. we can match these job opportunities with people on the ground. it has to hit the ground. you have to get bought weeds with it. literally connecting people one at a time to that job opportunity. if not, the people who are in

new orleans, our residents don't feel valued. they matter and they deserve employment. they are worthy. i believe that's the impact we can have on their lives. >> as you talk about this issue of respecting communities, i love the work of jjp, juvenile justice project. we're seeing this in the case of george zimmerman and trayvon martin we've been following on msnbc. a lot of the discourse has to do with the assumed criminality of young male black bodies. on the one hand we want effective policing, respect in communities. sometimes the very people we need to show the most respect for are those that have the greatest stereotypes associated with them because they share the characteristics of those victimized and victimizing others. how can we create a better environment for young people of color. >> juvenile justice project has

been focused on several things. one is empowering the people most impacted by the violence in our city to become voices and leaders and articulating solutions, which is so important, to get positive images out about how many young black citizens are successful. absolutely. i have a kid in my program who rides his bike two hours to work and home every night at 2:00 in the morning thaws that's the job he could get and how he can get there. >> riding his bike opens him to profiling and other things. >> that's one of his biggest fears, what if either stopped by a police officer who doesn't believe he's out there riding home on a bike from his job. that's the other thing we talk about is how important it is to understand, improving our criminal justice system, reforming criminal justice is part of improving safety.

the chief said it before. a professional police force is what we're striving for, what he's working towards and it's a gargantuan task. it's so important communicates in noern and on a national level feel they can trust their police, call police. programs like office of independent police monitors. >> hold the police accountable. >> thank you to my guests. up next, i am bringing the mayor of new orleans into this conversation, because i have some questions about what's happening in my city. why let constipation weigh you down? as soon as you feel it, try miralax. it works differently than other laxatives. it draws water into your colon to unblock your system naturally.

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at about 2:30 in the morning,

gunshots rang out in the community of algiers on the west bank of new orleans. in the silence that followed a mother emerged from her home to find her son laying on the lawn struggling to breathe. the young man died in the presence of his mother in her home shortly thereafter. jerrod, only a month after his 18th birthday was reportedly shot five times. the two men his mother believed were responsible for the death were never charged with the shooting. just this morning she attended the love, loss and life prayer vigil for mothers who lost children to gun violence along with the mayor mitch landrieu. both are joining me today. thank you both for being here. you came both from the prayer vigil. >> correct. >> the sorry of your son's loss, every child's loss is appalling.

i think part of what captured my heart was your neighborhood was supposedly one of these good neighborhoods. the place where this shouldn't happen. you're the mom of three kids. this is an active, engaged child. it feels very much like the pendleton loss in chicago. what does this tell us about the possibility of loss to anybody, anywhere. >> it says everyone should wake up and realize it's not an isolated event. it can happen to anyone. it should be a wakeup call that people of new orleans should feel responsible for every murder that occurs and want to take part in making a change. >> this week we had the opportunity to see trayvon martin's mother testify at the trial of george zimmerman. it was so difficult to watch. at least the man who shot her child is on trial. you haven't had that opportunity.

>> no. >> do you think you will? >> probably not. >> how do you go on without that sense of justice? >> because at the end of the day, he's gone. there's nothing that can change that situation. so i just say steadfast in the fact god has control of it. he makes no mistakes. so i know that i have a story now to tell and that i need to continue to do what i was doing before i lost my son, and that's be active within my community to impact the lives of young children. >> mayor, when the mayor says we have to all be responsible for all of our children, i think, you know, i got in trouble for saying that. i find that to be true. for no person is that more true than city leaders, elected in

part to keep us safe. what is primary response for city leaders in chicago, new orleans, other places. what is it you must do to make it safe for our children. >> let me speak to that phrase. you're exactly right. you've had discussions, police chief, ex-governor, community activist on. the first thing elected leaders do, come up with prescriptions right away. then everybody is plaming everybody else. the first thing that people need to realize in this country is this is a national epidemic. although it seems like the isolated incidents it happens, sometimes in a neighborhood you expect, sometimes you don't. 611,000 people have been killed on the streets in america since 1980, 40 every day. newtown should never preept itself. the death of trayvon martin, a tragic event. the shooting of gabrielle giffords and columbine.

since the newtown incident 5,000 people have lost l lives on the streets. the first thing that mayors or really anybody else, mothers, pastors, fathers should do is stand up and say, listen, we have a huge problem here. this is not isolated. this could happen to you. the incident happened to her son. we have two pastors from chicago, his son joseph was here. he was standing on the street. he was mistaken for somebody else and his life was lost. the worst part of my day and it happens too much is the e-mail i get at night far too much. sorry to inform you shots rang out, arrived at the scene, found a young man, too often an african-american man lying face down and there's no witness. that's the hardest part. >> what you said there, i want to point out. on the one hand it can happen to anyone. no one is completely invulnerable to this. and yet it doesn't happen to just anyone.

it overwhelmingly happens -- noern is the city we come to to eat and party and have a good time. for those that live here is two cities, uptown and garden districts and mannings on st. charles. i've got to tell you, mayor, i love this city more than anything. that mother's day children, i'm like, where are my bags. i'm ready to go. >> let me speak to that. this is what i have to do. as a leader of the city, i have to go out and talk about how wonderful new orleans is. it is, so is philadelphia, chicago. i'm here to tell you, not to hide from this but run to it. here are the statistics. of the people who are killed in new orleans, most of them, 85, 95% are young african-american men. they are killed by young african-american men between 16 and 25. here is the one, 80% of them know epa other in certain neighborhoods we know. that's happening all over america. i'm very happy our murder rate

is as low as it's been in 20 years, it's still higher than it should be. in this country we have a tale of two cities. everyone has to take responsibility for figuring out how to fix this problem without spending time on blaming. we can find an answer to this and i think we have to. one of my missions as mayor is to call attention to the fact it's a national epidemic, shouldn't happen, there is a way out. if we put our hands together on this and claim it, we can make it done. >> we have to make it done. i'm going to make you one promise. we won't forget your son on this show. we won't forget we have a responsibility to the children in this city and the children in all the cities. no matter what people say, we know that all of our children are our responsibility. that's our commitment to you. >> thank you. >> thank you for being here today. >> great to see you. >> to shonda burks and mayor mitch landrieu. coming up next because i'm feeling a need for spiritual

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her first book helped me through tough times. as an author and life coach she's been inspiring the masses for decades. she's become one of the most anticipated speakers at the essence festival year after year. i'm telling you, she can barely walk through this hall. she has her own show, "fix my life" on oprah network. oprah's life class series, called "fatherless sons" it airs tonight on own. take a look. >> you know, i have done this.

if you have a man who is not taking care of his children. that is, a, not the man you have a baby with. and b, you really need to think about if he's not taking care of children he has with someone else, do not delude yourself into thinking he's going to take care of children he has with you. >> i'm pleased to welcome iyanla vanzant to nerdland. fatherless sons. 21 million boys growing up without their dads. what difference does that make to our communities? >> oh, my god. i think dr. steve perry said it, when a father leaves, he takes your self-esteem with him. so the young men have no model, no demonstration, no example of how to be a man, how to be a father, who to be.

just imagine. i have a grandson who doesn't have a father in his life. it's just an overwhelming rage, number one, and sadness, number two. a sense of just not being important. because if you're not important to the man who is responsible for you being here, how do you find your sense of importance in the world? we say that some people, some young men make it well, they have strong moms, grand moms, uncles, grandfather's, but others, overwhelmingly have that hole in their soul. >> i'm married to a man who has an extraordinary father. the kind of comfort he feels in himself and the world and his capacity to be a partner to me is extraordinary. i tend to think it has to do with his tight relationship with his dad. on the other hand i see president barack obama who seems to be an incredible father to his children, a wonderful husband to his wife, as far as we can tell, and, of course,

managed to be the first african-american president of the united states. he expresses pretty regularly his own sense of anxiety about fatherle fatherlessness. clearly it didn't keep him from being extraordinary. how do you be a fatherless child and yet be a president obama. >> you have to look at the environment he grew up in also. he didn't grow up in an environment where there were no male examples at all. he didn't grow up where he was worried about the rent, food, if he was sleeping in a room with six other people. he didn't grow up in an environment where he was called names, where there was not enough books in his school, where he had to walk through all sorts of wonderfulness to get to school. so it's not just the absence of the father but the environment that breeds the limited amounts of value and worth when the father is absent. >> that is so valuable to me, that connection between sort of a personal hurt but also the

realities of the structures that we exist in. >> that's right. >> i'm a politics person, social movements, that kind of thing. what is the place of personal healing, of finding our own psychological and emotional wellness in the context of building a social and political movement? >> you know what, it's funny. let me just apologize to everybody right now, because i'm getting ready to insult somebody. so i just want to get that out the way. politics doesn't take people into consideration. they take policies, people, jobs, alliance, people are the last consideration of politics. you can't tell me we have this many congressmen, senators, and nobody understands in a poor neighborhood there are no books. nobody understands this curriculum we're teaching in public school is, a,

miseducation. not up to par what you need to be in the world today and doesn't honor the truth and the value, particularly of black and brown people. politics or not. board of educations funded by state, federal, government moneys and we're still teaching the same dishonorable curriculum. politics is not about people. it's about policies and positions. >> if there were a way to put people at the center, there might be a way. >> might be a different one. i was watching about gun violence and what we're going to do. it's so very sad. while we can say it's happening, it doesn't happen in montana, idaho, where they own guns to shoot their dinner. we need to stop accommodating the condition and address the cause. here is the cause. people are hurting. if you're not a star. if you're not a celebrity, if

you're not known in the world, you don't matter in this society. if you are just living your life every single day, you don't matter. you matter if you're running for office and need help and they need a vote, but you don't matter at night when you've got to go into the supermarket and choose between tan food that's going to raise your cholesterol and fresh organic vegetable. you didn't matter then. you don't matter when you're working because daddy isn't in the house. you've got three kids. you were married. you weren't a gutter snipe sleeping around. you had three kids. daddy couldn't get a job. he left the house. now you have to make a choice between rent and health care. you don't matter then. >> the story you told is the story of real people. we turn them into cashiricature

>> 6 million people will be hungry. you understand? that's because of one tank. we keep accommodating the condition. forgive me, i'm getting ready to insult somebody. we live in a society where black and brown people only matter at election time. we've got to say that. even when they do matter, black men who aren't in the home, filling the prisons are statistics. they are not people. we don't think they cry. why does he leave his family? because his heart is broken. >> that is the connection between healing our brokenness and healing our politics. stay with us. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] this is betsy.

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♪ it has been a real joy to bring this to my home city and the essence music festival. thanks to my guests and the incredible crowd who turned out to watch my show and thanks to you at home for watching. we'll be back in new york as always, 10:00 a.m. on both saturday and sunday. tonight is the beyonce concert and next is "the ed show." ♪

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