>> i was working in the window because i was just working and i could realize we were basically it sounded like we were about t the whole plane shook. so we knew something terrible had gone wrong. >> the top totally collapsed on a lot of people. >> i was holding the things so tight. and bang. the impact was so powerful. i felt, you know, i was dying. that was the moment. nobody was moving. no sound, nothing. >> good morning. it is monday, july 8th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve ratner. a perfect morning to have you on, steve. you've landed on that runway in san francisco as a pilot many times. >> can i also be the senior aviation correspondent like on

"the daily show" and you put a green screen. >> just land successfully. >> he has. >> friday jobs numbers with you steve. as you can see the president of the council on foreign relations richard haas will discuss the ongoing escalating situation in egypt coming up and joe, good morning to you. we also have coming up the return of eliot spitzer. >> i know. you're very excited about that, mika. you were a big fan of his all along when i tried to get him on the show after his resignation. you weren't really thrilled so i don't know what you think about this political comeback but i'm sure we're all going to find out that, you know, the aviation story, the san francisco tragedy, when you look at that story and you look at it in contrast with the last several years, the past four years, there hasn't been a fatality in aviation and commercial aviation, we vhaven't had a lare

plane crash since 2001, this is the safest time to fly. there are going to be a lot of people looking at the approach and these pilots just not coming in fast enough and i can't wait to hear from steve, who actually has, as you said, landed at this airport several times. >> well, let's start there then. we begin with the investigation into the plane crash in san francisco where we continue to learn new details about what happened. asiana airlines says the pilot of 214 was, quote, still in training for the boeing 777 when he attempted to land the aircraft. meanwhile the coroner is examining whether one of the two fatalities may have actually been caused by an emergency vehicle responding to the scene. nbc's danielle lee reports. >> reporter: amidst the charred remains of asiana flight 214 investigators have obtained what may be one of their greatest clues. they say the black box voice recording from inside the cockpit captures crews calling for increased speed just 7 seconds before the crash.

one and a half seconds before impact, the crew unsuccessfully tries to abort the landing. >> the approach speed was 137 knots. i will tell you that the speed was significantly below 137 knots and we're not talking about a few knots. >> reporter: this morning the national transportation safety board will continue to analyze the damage strewn along 28 left of the san francisco international airport. the boeing 777 was hendsing a more than seven-hour flight when witnesses say the plane's tail hit the seawall just beyond the runway and broke off. survivors are still haunted by those it terrifying moments. >> i thought i was dying. that was the moment. >> reporter: two 16-year-old girls from china were thrown from the plane and killed. this morning more than a dozen survivors remain hospitalized. doctors say several are in critical condition. >> the most serious injuries were the ones that were the

combination of abdominal injuries, spine injuries, head injuries, injuries to their extremities. >> reporter: ben is among the dozens who walked away with minor injuries. >> bruised ribs and damage inside. >> reporter: he considers himself lucky after a harrowing flights where doctors say it's a miracle so many survived. >> and joe, it really is, when you look at the record of this aircraft itself, but also the record that we're going to take a look at next hour, how many people do survive some of these what seem to be devastating plane crashes, there is something changing in the way we fly. having said that, everybody who has seen this landing or has heard about how it happened, can tell something went wrong and it does point to potentially the pilot. >> yeah. hey, steve ratner, you've landed there several times. you're a pilot and you've gone in there. talk about what you're looking at here, specifically about the changes to the runway.

you had several things going on. some avionics on the ground were in place that will guide experienced and less experienced pilots in. also, i guess they changed the approach to the runway because they're fixing it up right now. what can you tell us? >> certainly those are factors and i'll get into those in a second. let me start with what we really are quite confident of. i think we're very confident of at this point it's pure pilot error. the engines were running. clearly the pilot made a mistake. the second thing i think we're confident of, the reason the plane crashed was it stalled, meaning it was going so slowly, that the wings could no longer hold it up in the air and it literally fell out of the air which is why you have that huge boom as it hits the ground. and the third thing which we're less confident of but i've seen reports of this on some of the aviation websites it appears when the pilot was coming in for his final approach, generally

marked about five miles out from the airport, he was too high and too fast and so he had to get down, he had to get down fast, and he then had what we call an unstabilized approach. you really want to have a stabilized approach in order to fly this thing. really by the last few miles really it tutouching nothing. quickly address the instruments and the pilots and all that stuff. the instrument landing was out of commission. shouldn't have mattered. it was a beautiful day. no wind. multiple other ways to land at that airport with using visual approaches which are completely normal and legal and also there's what they call vertical guidance, lights that literally guide you down to the runway that were working. it appears that the pilot may have been somewhat unfamiliar with this type of approach. it's not one that commercial pilots fly every day. i've flown it every time. it's not a hard approach to fly. i can do it. he was not stabilized when he got there and didn't recognize what we call a stall, the loss

of air speed and that was it. >> anything that would kick in automatically on the plane? when you get the speed that low and it's about to stall, is there an alert or an alarm and did that happen too late for him to do anything about it? >> >>. >> that's a good question. multiple alarms. something that looks like a speedometer that you're supposed to keep your eyes on but also a stick shaker. when the plane is ready to stall, suddenly everything starts vibrating. even the sleepiest pilot recognizes that. it shouldn't have been too late if she responded properly and quickly. south asiana airlines had problems before and had been restricted in 2001 because of pilot training and also an issue in certain cultures used to more command and control cultures where the captain, word sometimes is always it and the co-pilots are sometimes unwilling to challenge the captain and that leads to what we call bad cockpit resource management. >> and joining us live outside san francisco general hospital,

nbc news correspondent miguel almaguer with the latest on the wounded there. miguel, what do you know? >> mika, good morning. we know that at least six people remain hospitalized at san francisco general in critical condition, including one child. many of the injured were brought here on saturday. some 53 were treated here at this hospital and released. this hospital saw four waves of victims. that's how many injured were coming through the doors here. it was a very similar scene we saw at all the hospitals across the bay area. this morning six remain hospitalized the, six remain in critical condition at this hospital alone including one child in critical condition at san francisco general. >> all right. nbc's miguel almaguer, thanks very much. we'll be following this story throughout the morning. five years after resigning as governor of new york, eliot spitzer is looking to make a political comeback. in a phone interview with "the new york times," spitzer announced yesterday he will run for comptroller in new york city. spitzer was also candid about his past, notably his

involvement in a 2008 prostitution scandal. the former governor said, quote, i am hopeful there will be forgiveness. i'm asking for it. spitzer joins popular manhattan borough presidenting scott stringer in the race. his campaign responded to spitzer's announcement saying, quote, eliot spitzer is going to spurn the campaign finance program to try to buy personal redemption with his family fortune. the voters will decide. do you think he will get this, joe? >> you know, i mean, a lot of people are these days. people are handing them out like cotton candy. north, south, east, west, a lot of forgiveness. i'm all for forgiveness. that's great. please, forgive me for just -- what i do every five minutes. but in this case, let me tell you why i think there's a difference between eliot spitzer and anthony weiner. anthony weiner is a guy who was -- he was a generalist, he

would go on the floor, he was very combative, he didn't have really long track record if you look legislatively, you can't find -- some people are criticizing him for this now -- you can't find a lot of legislative accomplishments because he was usually at war with the other side. i'm not saying eliot spitzer is a more peaceful guy, but eliot spitzer for better or worse, i think for better, really took on the big institutions in -- on wall street. he, of course, went overboard in many cases, especially later in his career, but i remember, mika, you and i having a debate on whether to hahave him on the show. >> it was a fight. >> it was a fight. you did not want to have him on the show. i said he can explain a lot of this wall street stuff as well as anybody else. and we really did, we were very angry. you got very angry at me. i only bring this up, mika,

first of all you're a new york voter, i'm curious how you'll vote there. not really that curious. secondly, because i know how you're going to vote, against him, but secondly -- >> no -- >> don't you think the fact that he's economy tept and would actually be the best comptroller for the city most likely. >> all right. >> wouldn't make a lot of sense to vote for this guy regardless of what's in his background. >> i would like to clarify our fight which you still get wrong, still get it wrong today. it's unbelievable. you guys don't listen. i have no problem with him coming on the show. i think he's ferocious, very, very smart and very competent. i just wanted him to come on the show and talk about what happened. i wasn't going to avoid the conversation about what he did, how it happened and how it damaged his credibility and perhaps hurt the entire process of trust between our officials, elected or appointed, and the citizens. and nobody on the set wanted to talk to him about it. >> well -- >> i'm not going to have limb on here unless we address the elephant in the room.

>> i was more worried about why people's 401(k)s had been absolutely devastated a lot more by wall street greed more than what he was doing in his personal life. we already found out all we needed to know about that and he had to resign because of it. >> we ought to talk about how anthony weiner might be an effective payer rather than he sent tweets which is far less worse than these guys that get passes. >> willie geist -- >> he's not getting any sympathy. >> "new york post" -- >> this is -- >> "new york post" has to be in heaven, willie geist. >> off to a hot start. this is the fork post. >> what do they say? >> there it is again. >> i'm not going to say it. >> "the daily news" i'm not sure, a little slower start for "the daily news." it's mark sanford, anthony weiner, all these guys who -- >> all human beings. >> sanford, within the last,

what, six -- few couple months, sanford and weiner have shown guys like eliot spitzer you can do it. you can get back in and be absolved in many ways. >> mark sanford was ready to talk about it. that's the only issue. >> weiner has been talking about it as well. >> and spitzer will have to talk about it. i know eliot reasonably well. i consider him a friend. don't agree with everything he's done. it's been clear he does not want to be a business guy. he wants to be in public service. you can agree or not agree with what he wants to do. i have no doubt watching sanford and weiner, he said why not me? >> right. >> mika, i think the key here is, it does really at the end of the day comes down to competence. at the end of the day people are going to judge you on what kind of job you're going to do for them. are you going to be a good public servant or not. you take mark sanford. mark had a very, very messy personal situation explode while he was governor. that was difficult. but you know what, people would

go out and they would talk. he would answer any question they had on the campaign trail. when it got to the issues he would talk about them. he went in great detail about them, whether you agreed with him or not. his opponent was kept away interest tfrom the press, afraid to have press conferences and over time the people of south carolina very conservative district, of course, decided they would go ahead and go with the conservative republican because he had been their governor for eight years and a dam good governor. i think actually eliot spitzer will get that same benefit of the doubt because he was a very significant attorney general. he went after wall street greed early on. he was predicting what happened on september 15th, 2008, and i think at the end of the day yeah, you can screw up, but guess what like you said, everybody is human, everybody makes mistakes, at the end of the day, are you going to be able to run your office?

and that just may be the question that differentiates eliot spitzer from anthony weiner. if anthony weiner loses it's not going to be because of tweets. it's going to be because people don't think he's got the temperament or the ability or the background to run the most difficult city in america. >> i don't disagree. does anyone here at the table think eliot spitzer is incapable of doing the job effectively? >> i think the bigger question for people beyond the personal side will be how he conducted himself as attorney general. and there's a large group of people in the business community who will object to him not because of any personal foiables but the issue he tried a lot of his cases in public. >> that's right. >> he didn't win when he went to court but put a lot of pressure on people publicly. whether hank greenberg and his powerful people in new york who feel that the way he conducted himself on the job was inappropriate. you're going to have two areas where eliot will have to, contend with his adversaries. >> he picked a race that should

be about as easy a race as there's going to be. one candidate, not a particularly strong candidate or well-known candidate. he will have that offsetting everything richard said. let's move on to other news. teresa heinz kerry wife of secretary of state john kerry was admitted to the hospital yesterday for an unspecified medical condition. heinz kerry who is 74 is listed in critical but stable condition. we'll be following that. and now to egypt where thousands of demonstrators are preparing for another day of protests, as the fate of egypt's government remains uncertain. supporters of ousted president mohamed morsi are calling for him to be reinstated and they're finding themselves at the center of violent clashes with the egyptian army. according to the country's ministry of health, more than 40 people were killed and at least 300 injured early this morning when gunshots were fired at what began as a peaceful protest outside a military building in cairo. there are conflicting reports as

to which side started the fire fight but military officials say five supporters of mohamed morsi and one officer were killed. we'll go to a correspondent on the scene in cairo in a moment. richard haas, are we talking about an all-out civil war or how can we characterize what's happening in egypt? >> that's the frightening prospect. you've had a political verdict where the muslim brotherhood, which quote/unquote feels legitimate that they lost power they won through the ballot box so they're angry, the question is whether they re-enter or remade political process and contest whether they essentially go to the streets and that's the real danger. because the goal for the army, the goal for the opposition is to restart if you will, reboot a political process where the muslim brotherhood contested. if they don't, if they feel denied and basically say we are still owed three years of leadership, we are not going to rejoin a new political game, then you're facing prolonged

civil strife against an economy that's in freefall. this has the potential to be a nightmare if you can't essentially restart things. >> joe? >> hey, yeah. so richard, are we in the west shortsighted if we are celebrating the removal of morsi, a man obviously who wasn't up to the job, a man who actually became the first democratically elected leader in egypt's history but then started acting in undemocratic ways, seizing power from the judiciary, stifling dissent from opponents. of course he has a list of mistakes a mile long that he made, but at the same time, could we be engaged in shortsighted thinking if we, in fact, believe that 80% of the crowd should have been listened to and that this man should have been removed from office? >> you use the word celebrate? we should not be celebrating. just the risks we're now seeing. the word dilemma is overused one

was to stick with morsi and in three more years he would so have entrenched himself you would have had the equivalent of one man, one vote, one time and impossible to have a rotation of power. the way we've gone, where essentially 15 million egyptians came out in the street, done is undermined the voting process, and now we're taking a major risk. and the idea is that you can restart politics despite having done this. it might be there's no good or smooth -- to smooth outcome here and that's the real risk we face. >> willie? >> see what's going on as of this moment in cairo. joining us live from our nbc correspondent atia abawi. what does it look like? >> good morning. it was a bloody start to the morning here in cairo. as mika said, 42, at least 42 people were killed in clashes outside of the headquarters for the republican guard. it was what the egyptian military against the pro-morsi supporters. according to the army, they say that they were attacked by the pro-morsi supporters who have been staging a sit-in in the

area of nasser city for days now. they have had one demand, the reinstatement of the former president morsi as the legitimate leader of egypt. according to the supporters of morsi, they say that the attack was unprovoked and that it was a massacre like none other that has been seen when it comes to the egyptian military against the egyptian citizens. this will in no doubt continue to fan the flames of uncertainty here in egypt. the muslim brotherhood's freedom and justice party have already announced on their facebook page that they want an uprising against the opponents of what they call the revolution, the legitimate revolution of 2011, and we're also expecting a press conference in the coming minutes, possibly hours, from an umbrella group from the muslim brotherhood where they will possibly announce and demand the release of the former president morsi or they will go and release him themselves by force. mika? >> atia abawi in cairo, thanks so much. so richard, atia makes a

point where members of the muslim brotherhood say look we have this revolution, we have a president who was democratically elected and now you're asking us to keep the peace to support what they believe is a coup, removal from power of a guy who was elected. . why are they wrong? >> legitimacy and a democracy is more than about simply winning an election and there's lots of things to point to that in the way that morsi ruled was illegitimate. so the question then is, where does legitimacy come from, quite honestly. one is from the ballot box, one is from the way you govern. there's a tension between the two. the question here is whether you can restart politics, including the muslim brotherhood. what's really important is the army and others do not exclude them. that they open up, they do not jail them, repress all their media outlets so that you have something of a level playing field and you start. i simply don't know whether the muslim brotherhood is going to allow a restart. if they don't, then you're going to have more of what we've seen the last 24 hours.

>> we'll be following this up as well on the must-read opinion pages. joe, we leave for a week -- >> unbelievable. >> yeah. you know, obviously there are a lot of people who believed in the majority of the egyptians the military needed to step in. i think the military has run that country for all but one year since the early 1950s. it's one thing to remove morsi if morsi is acting in an undemocratic way and suspending parts of the constitution and he's persecuting those that don't agree with him and trying to consolidate one man, one party rule. but to shut down television stations, to shut down media outlets, to indiscriminately fire into the crowds, we're getting a lot of reports of that, that is causing far more serious problems, not only for the egyptian military but the people of egypt and certainly for the united states. we are in a terrible position as

well and obviously we're all going to be watching this very closely in the coming days. >> ahead we'll look at the options, richard, with you. coming up on "morning joe," look at the latest details on the plane crash investigation? san francisco with the head of the ntsb, deborah hersman, chuck todd, dr. nancy snyderman and adventurer bear grylls will be here in the studio. up next the top stories in the politico playbook. first bill karins, not really an adventurer. >> no. >> we kind of like him. >> kind of like him? >> kind of good to see you. >> one day a week. let me know what day that is. >> okay. >> good morning, everyone. overnight tropical storm chan tell formed. our third storm already in the early hurricane season. this is not expected to be a huge ordeal but the forecast path does have me at least interested. the storm well to the east of the lesser antilles and 700 miles from barbados. not expected to become a big powerful storm but should be

somewhere near florida or the bahamas as a weak system. now we have storms heading across illinois and wisconsin overnight. you're going to deal with the rainy morning there. we've had very warm temperatures this last week or two. today will be no exception. the humidity, it's still very high from chicago all the way through dallas. that's a high humidity level for dallas, the dew point is 70. these numbers represent the amount of moisture in the air. anything in the upper 60s are or 70s is nasty. there's that forecast path of chantall. not concerned with it as it should be a weak storm by the bahamas or florida five days from now. more of the same today. still hazy, hot, and humid as we go throughout a very sweaty july. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. it's a brand new start.

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27 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." good to have -- joe, good to have you back, but you're sort of not back but sort of here. did you have a vacation? >> i am. well, i'm actually on assignment. >> yes. >> and i can't tell you where i am exactly. it is -- >> i wish i could go on that kind of assignment. >> have a ship called assignment. >> yeah. >> are you on -- >> i'm on assignment. this is undisclosed location. but there was news here and so i had to come and follow the news. >> that's true. >> over the several days ago. >> that's true. >> that's why i'm here. so really quickly, though, let's go around, really quickly, mika, you had quite a fourth of july. >> i did. >> you and your kids had been planning all year to go on a couple big trips and very

exciting. you were in london and went to visit your brother in sweden. >> saw my brother the ambassador in stockholm and he is doing such a great job there, he and his wife natalia. stockholm is so beautiful. my mom's sculptures and the embassy there. my daughter worked there. and we also went to london and i went inside, steve ratner, 10 downing and i sat in winston churchill's chair, his reading chair. >> kwool. >> how did you do that? >> that is cool. >> just sort of happened. i'm serious. >> i think it's a tribute that snowed didn't not go to stockholm. >> i did not see snowden lurking in the halls of the embassy for one moment. >> that is so exciting. willie geist proving that mika lives in s in s in a rarefied au and i never will live in. every time i go to london i'm peering through the gate and turning sideways at 10 downing.

mika just walks through the front door. walks through the front door. >> the whole building. it's a home. it's not like the white house. it's not -- it's -- it's just a -- like georgetown. >> right. >> that is -- >> yeah. >> georgetown, except like where winston churchill and margaret thatcher and tony blair lived. that sort of thing. >> oh, my gosh. >> willie, you just worked all fourth of july? >> i was here serving the nbc family of networks on the fourth of july. but i got to see my family this weekend. >> that's nice. >> oh,p. >> it was a solitary fourth of july but good weekend that followed. >> okay. >> willie, you know where i am this time of year because i'm helping the kids. >> oh -- >> ratner does too. >> i think you saw ratner. >> they're fine. this is fourth of july on main street. you see a lot of kids. >> how are they up there? >> you know, willie -- >> orphans. >> the orphans, the nantucket orphans fund. it's sad. every fourth of july actually, we come up here, kate absolutely

loves it. they get the fire hoses, the fire department, and the kids run like crazy down main street. cobble stone main street. they fire -- you got people all across new england that come by the ferries and bring their kids and put up a firework display. a lot of fun. a lot of fun. of course, we also went on over, mika, to martha's vineyard. i had never been there. that's where presidents and prime ministers and steve ratner play. >> right. >> actually, joe, it's for democrats. >> did you allow him on the island? >> briefly. >> i was -- is i guess that's why i didn't have a passport. went over there with the kids. it was very interesting stuff. but a lot of fun. >> that's great. >> richard haas has back pain so there you go. that's terrible. i'm sorry. >> happy 4th, richard. >> thanks. nothing like back spasms to celebrate the fourth of july.

>> that's not funny. i'm so sorry. move on to politico. >> to politico. >> nothing going on in the news. >> the chief white house correspondent mike allen, has a look at the playbook. good morning. >> good morning. while you were toiling away, i was in reno, family of four, the youngest nephew gus had a baseball tournament out there and they're smart, this is a travel team from oregon, they put the parents in a casino so everybody wants to go. >> wow. >> if you're a parent that's the kind of trip you want. just blackjack the whole time when your kid's out playing baseball. the lead story you have on your website right now, maggie haberman writing about hillary clinton answering the has-been charge. explain for people that don't know the has-been charge and what's the response? >> this is a sign of just how quick this democratic race is starting. both sides testing what the arguments for and against secretary clinton could be. the republicans are trying to say she's old news. she's a former first lady, a

former secretary of state. she's a former candidate. this is a code for saying she's old. that's what republicans are trying to put in people's minds. but democrats say, that they have a very powerful comeback to that. we all know she would be the first woman president and that would be a powerful argument in an election but willie, she would be the first female nominee of either party. so she has a chance to get a little bit of that history, a little bit of that change that worked for president obama. >> and you have quoted stephanie cutter former adviser for president obama saying if secretary clinton runs she will be the nominee, the first female nominee of either party. does anybody, if she decides to do it, mike, even step into this race for the democrats? >> well sure. she's not going to say she's doing it for a while. she doesn't want to look too political. she's very popular right now. as soon as she's a definite candidate some of that will go away. vice president biden supporters certainly hope he'll get out

there and politico is reporting that backers of vice president biden want him to be a little more aggressive with fund-raising. want him to play hard in 2014, form one of those leadership political action committees which lets him raise money for other candidates and so we're going to have this cold war between the two of them over time we'll figure out which one will be the stronger candidate. for a while it's going to be a real race. >> any behind-the-scenes discussion between the two camps. say joe biden going to hillary clinton, personally or either to her people perhaps, and saying are you doing it or not because that's going to dictate what i do? you don't want to have a situation, i would think, if you're the democratic party, where vice president biden steps out there, and then hillary clinton comes in? >> no. that's a great point, willie. no, they don't usually have that sort of formal conversation. the two sides will send signals to try to read each other, but that's why vice president biden is in a tough spot right now. he doesn't want to be

disrespectful for -- to secretary clinton by being too overt about what he's doing. he also doesn't want to seem to undermine or overshadow his boss, president obama, being out there. vice president biden has to be subtle about this and that's why going the money route what is a lot of his backers want. he started to make pretty clearly political appearances around the country, including early states like south carolina. >> does somebody else get in either to run for vice president or simply to put down a marker for 4, 8 or 12 years now? i can't believe no one else is going to enter the race? >> no. and we here see governor martin o'malley of maryland, governor andrew cuomo of new york, a lot of people are looking at it. everybody is waiting for that big signal from secretary clinton. and so far, we're not seeing a single sign she's not going to run. every clue to the people who are close to her, they see it happening. >> and only three years and four months until election day.

>> oh, my lord. >> politico's mike allen, thanks so much. >> see you at the blackjack table. >> we'll see you. coming up the all england club celebrates a win by one of its own. tennis champ andy murray makes history at wimbledon. sports is next. ♪ pnc virtual wallet®. for seeing the big financial picture. for knowing the days your money is going out, and when it's coming in. for having danger days, to warn you when you're running a little low. for help seeing your money in a whole new light go to pncvirtualwallet.com and see everything pnc virtual wallet® has to offer. pnc bank. for the achiever in you®.

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time for sports. the wimbledon trophy is back in the hands of a brit. the front page of the daily telegraph, andy murray the first british man to win the title in 77 years. not since fred perry won in 1936. defeating a german. remember that one. a hell of a a march. murray beated top seeded novak djokovic, one year after he came close losing a final to roger federer. he's making his mark among the elite players reached the finals in the four major tournaments he entered. two-time slam champion. defeated djokovic in september. he spoke about his emotions winning at home after the match.

>> i feel it was slightly different to last year. you know, last year was one of the toughest moments of my career so to manage to win the tournament today, it was unbelievably tough match. >> it's been an incredible year. he won the gold medal, the olympic gold medal in summer and now he gets wimbledon in the space of less than a year. lot of celebrities there. look at bradley cooper on the left. >> what's he doing? >> bradley cooper with girard butler. they were like a coordinated look. >> what. >> it's a good look. >> it works. >> no. >> at a tennis match -- >> all england club. you dress up a little bit. >> people around them don't look so dressed. >> why are they doing that? >> having a good time. on the women's side, france's 28-year-old marion bartoli defeated sabine lisicki in straight sets to win her first major title. bartoli has played in 46 consecutive grand slam tournaments, this is her first

win. her victory slightly marred by comments made by a bbc host before the match. >> what was this? >> john inverdale, angered radio listeners when he made comments on bartoli's appearance saying, quote, do you think bartoli's dad told her when she was little you're never going to be a looker, you'll never be sharapova and you have to be scappy and fight. he has apologized for what he called a clumsy phrase he only meant to point out not all players have to be 6 foot athletes. >> she's beautiful, look at her. second of all, who is he? what the heck. >> why does it matter? >> and invoking her father. that guy is -- he's not right. >> she played great and won her first grand slam. congratulations to her. let's go to baseball, the fans have voted the all-star rosters. chris davis beat out miguel cabrera as the top vote getter. the orioles have three names on

the starting rosters, tigers top with five. >> robbie canoe and mariano will be there. adyadier molina, the cardinals catcher. mets ace matt harvey and third baseman david wright represent the home team when they play over at city field. dodgers rookie puig has been only in the mainers for a month was not picked but could make the team as one of the five finalists. fans can vote on-line through thursday. he's an incredible player. coming up next the "washington post's" kathleen parker joins us for mika's must-read opinion pages and she happened to co-host a show with el lost spitzer who happens to be in the news this morning. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. you can reuse almost anything. paper bags. soda bottles handcuffs i'm just saying. so see what you can reuse. you'll reduce what's sent to landfills. the more you know.

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welcome back to "morning joe." at 46 past the hour here with us columnist for "the washington post" kathleen parker. a lot to talk to you about this morning. what was that you just said about the truth? >> i said there's no profit in telling the truth because i live in washington. >> that's true, actually. >> that's a whole different conversation. >> reading all the excerpts of mark leibovitz book and fascinating. >> i can't wait to read the whole thing. >> is thethere is some sort of >> unofficial one. >> i can't wait to read the whole thing. where are you planning to retire? he said anywhere but here. >> wow. we'll get to that. we'll have him on the show. i'm scared to read that. here's a part of your piece in "the washington post" about the trayvon martin case. a bullet through the heart. this is an interesting question you raised. suddenly this high-stakes trial has become a test of the credibility of two mothers. does maternal instinct convince

these mothers they are right or maternal instinct compel each to protect her son regardless of what may be true? second guessers have an array of questions to entertain. would a mother lie about such a thing? could she? would she wish another woman's son convicted on the basis of her sense of things? can she know with certainty that the voice in the background barely audible is that of her son and not of the other man? the last question is most compelling, can she? and i just thought about that as a mother myself and i don't know the answer. >> well, it raised so many interesting questions. i was fascinating by these two mothers that testified on friday, the 91 call, you hear this person screaming in the background. was it trayvon martin or was it george zimmerman and, of course, the answer determines more likely who is -- who is the one -- whether or not the shooting was an act of self-defense. >> right. >> so very important. the mothers, of course, each heard her own voice. now would you recognize your

child's voice? i feel i would. >> yeah. >> tapes, you know, recordings distort things a little bit. basically we know someone's wrong, but we wouldn't go so far as to say someone is not telling the truth. >> i think i would. i speak as a woman here. i had a child who was injured and her cry, i mean the different cries, make you react physically. >> and i, you know, he's now a young adult, and i feel like if i heard him in distress i would know. >> you would just know it. >> from the time he was born, i was racing down the hall because i could tell his voice from 30 other babies in the nursery. >> exactly. all right. this is a great piece. everyone should look. back into politics. we already argued a little bit about our argument about eliot spitzer and i'll bring you into it now. your take? having worked with him as a co-host that you did not know you were going to get.

i believe you were sat down, given a job at another network and told who your co-host would be and i don't know how long the show went, about two years? >> that's not exactly right. i knew by the time we sat down he was going to be -- >> oh, yeah. >> not on the air. >> we did a little rehearsing. i met eliot for the first time, though, in preparation for the show that became parker spitzer and, you know, eliot, like all people is a complex figure. he can be beguiling and extremely charming. i see everyone here has met him or had some transactions. but as he described himself a steamroller. he has powerful enemies in this town. i used to walk down the street with him frequently and people would race to speak to him. cab drivers would cross four lanes of traffic and slam on brakes and say, good morning, governor. and you know, there are a lot of people who think highly of him. they certainly think he's competent in the role he wants to play now.

whether he can be forgiven, i don't know that eliot's, you know, the things for which he's best known for are his greatest obstacles to redemption if that's what he's seeking. i think at love people questioned his style and how he went about, you know, going after wall streetp. there are many dimensions to him. >> safe to say, given what you said, you might be slightly conflicted if you were asked to analyze his return to politics. >> look, i think, you know, i wish eliot the best. that's where i would leave it. >> kathleen, stay with us. we'll try to figure out exactly what that means coming up. but first, we have willie's news you can't use next on "morning joe." i'm jennifer hudson.

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it is time. it's good to be back. time for the news you can't use. this is -- let's say this isn't like my church. pastor of emanuel baptist church in oklahoma fed up with his congregation not paying attention during his service. he had about enough and it was all on videotape. >> oh, no. >> don't go to sleep while i'm talking. hey. don't you lay your head back. i'm important. i'm somebody. no, you might do your english teacher that way but i'm not

teaching opinions. i'm teaching eternal life here. where have you been, mr. underwood? i noticed on the calendar i'm supposed to marry you all. what makes you think i would marry you. you're one of the sorriest church members i have. you're not worth 15 cents. remember when i came here kelly, where your wife was, where your sisters were? do you remember where they were and we made holy water? cou remember that? stay with me. don't quit me. are you all keeping the camera on me in the little video room? he has a little attitude adjustment that we're going to fix. brother cox are you listening, mother cox i can fix your attitude adjustment because if you loved me and submitted to me, you would know what my heart is and my message is and you wouldn't go about establishing your own kingdom in the video room. really feel good now. >> oh, my goodness. >> i love it. >> fantastic. >> i am listening.

pastor standards he's making no apologies. he said most preachers would never do that but i'm not most preachers. end quote. he canceled their welgdding. >> i need more of that. any more of that. he canceled their wedding. >> you would stay awake. >> when he started going after people individually. >> in the front pew. >> you know, willie, willie geist, there is nothing quite as purifying as christian love and you can just -- the love was just -- it was overflowing. >> oh, my god. >> wow. >> how do we get more? is there more tape, alex? that guy had a breakdown, willie. >> i can't whether or not jesus ever told somebody you're not worth 15 cents. >> i'm not going to marry you. >> i don't think he did. >> wow. >> coming up next -- >> that was good. >> all the new safety technology on jetliners -- >> by the way, willy, every

preacher that's been behind the pulpit wanted to do that. >> he just lived it out? coming up, could all that new safety technology in jeetsliners be leaving pilots less prepared? we'll be right back. who is healthier, you or your car? i would say my car. probably the car. cause as you get older you start breaking down. i love my car. i want to take care of it. i have a bad wheel - i must say. my car is running quite well. keep your car healthy with the works. $29.95 or less after $10 mail-in rebate at your participating ford dealer. so you gotta take care of yourself? yes you do. you gotta take care of your baby? oh yeah! a meal like thiso save on fast from walmartd dinners. costs less that $3.50 per serving. and if a family of four like yours switches out fast food dinner just once a week you can save over $690 a year. unbelievable. it's believable. save on a kraft dinner backed by the low price guarantee. walmart

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reduce or stop cymbalta. dizziness or fainting may occur upon standing. take the next step. talk to your doctor. cymbalta can help. top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." richard haas and steve ratner with us. and we're going to begin this hour, joe, with the investigation into the plane crash in san francisco where we continue to earlier new details this morning. asiana airlines now says the

pilot of the flight 214 was still, quote, in training for the boeing 777 when he attempted to land the aircraft. according to federal investigators, the plane was flying far below its intended landing speed and was actually on the verge of stalling when it hit the seawall between the runway and the bay. the crew reportedly tried to abort the landing but was unable to do so. the coroner is examining whether one of the two fatalities may have actually been caused by an emergency vehicle responding to the scene. the plane was carrying 307 passengers and crew. so many questions still, but joe, the fact that they have so much of the plane and so many survivors, the chances are they could answer some of these questions. >> well, and so many eyewitnesses too. steve ratner, you've done this approach yourself as a pilot several times. you've flown into the airport. the visibility on this particular day was good. as you said, there were other ways to be guided in even though

one system was down. they changed the runway. here again, you never want to jump to conclusions too early, but it seems that everything is pointing towards pilot error, including the statement from the lead investigator for the federal government that said he was well below the 158 miles per hour that he needed to be to prevent the stall. >> yeah. that's correct. deborah hersman the chairman of the ntsb i think somewhat perhaps uncharacteristically so quickly said yeah, he stalled the plane. i take the point that he may not have had as many hours in this particular plane but he was a 10,000 hour pilot. stalling the plane is the most basic thing, most basic error you can make. something every pilot on the first day of flight school is taught how not to do. you have another pilot next to you who's supposed to be monitoring the situation and helping you correct any errors. >> steve, i don't understand in

the cockpit, explain this to me, you were talking about order in the cockpit, you know, you also, of course -- you always hear on a commercial flight, you hear the stall warnings, all the other warnings that go off. i'm sure warnings were going off inside the cockpit. it's not like they both can't look at how many knots they're doing. it seems unbelievable to me they didn't keep it to the proper speed during their approach. >> it is almost unbelievable. the only other thing i'd say, i would say two other things. first, they came into the approach at the wrong altitude. they were too high, it appears, they were too high which means they had to descend too quickly and try to get to the runway and that's what we call an unstabilized approach. it is a dangerous way to fly. it leads to these kinds of mistakes. secondly as you point out there were two people in the cockpit. only thing i would say about that is in some cultures quite frankly the normal ability of

the pilot who's not flying to challenge the pilot who's flying, saying no no no, we have to do this, sometimes doesn't work as well as it should in terms of that check and response system. >> just looking at the video inside the plane, and again, we're going to have kind of more in-depth look behind the data of survival rates of these planes, it's unbelievable. >> these planes have been improved so much. for example, seats is now to withstand a 16 -- a force 16 times the force of gravity and that's i think a big part of why you had so many survivors. >> incredible. >> 123 passengers walked out of the plane. >> that's incredible. >> which is unheard of. two 16-year-old girls tragically died. chinese students on their way to the united states to study. but one of them may have died -- >> outside of the plane. >> by an emergency vehicle afterwards. we don't have that confirmed yet. that's the early report. beyond the strength of the seats how do 123 people walk away from a plane crash?

>> that flips over like that. >> these planes are certified now, you have to evacuate a plane like this in 90 seconds even if half of the emergency exit doors are not operating. and so you have -- the chute deese ploy, the doors open and people essentially walk off or slid off as the case may be. >> okay. we'll be following this. it's still -- you look at those pictures and don't know how they were, potentially only one death inside that plane. >> well, you know, mika, also, though, and steve was talking about some of the improvements that have been made. again, it's important to underline right now the safety record. over the past four years, there's been absolutely extraordinary. >> stellar. >> i guess the last crash was that tragic icing crash going into buffalo, but it's been over four years since there's been a commercial fatality and, of course, a big plane like this hasn't crashed since 2011. >> right. >> that is without a doubt, we

are in the safest time we could be in for commercial aviation in the united states of america. and worldwide. that's because of all of the advancements we've made. it looks right now like this problem, this tragedy came from some pretty horrific pilot error. of course, the federal -- the federal agencies investigating would say that we need to sit back and wait and we certainly do, but certainly all signs including some of the things they've been saying in press conferences right after the crash suggest that the pilots made, as steve said, the most elemental of mistakes. >> remember also one other thing, all these improvements in safety and in certification of the planes and in training, didn't come out of the sky. they came from the faa in large part and so as we sit here on this set and debate the role of government in america and how it should work, the faa drives us pilots crazy a lot of times with requirements and we think this is too much and why are they doing this, and it's all by the book but it results in this kind of a safety record you saw happen on -- over the weekend.

>> good point to be made. we're going to get back to this. we want to move now to egypt, where thousands of demonstrators are preparing for another day of protests as the fate of egypt's government remains uncertain. supporters of ousted president mohamed morsi are calling for him to be reinstated and they're finding themselves at the center of violent clashes. with the egyptian army. according to the country's ministry of health more than 40 people were killed and at least 300 injured early this morning when gunshots were fired at what began as a peaceful protest outside a military building in cairo. there are conflicting reports as to which side started the fight, but military officials say five supporters of mohamed morsi and one officer were killed. richard haas, what are our options, the administration's options, in dealing with this right now? because it doesn't seem like there's a clear path. >> not a lot. this is one of those terrible situations where influence is much less than our interests. so our ability to steer this simply doesn't exist.

we can influence it at the -- at the margin and we can urge calm, but people aren't going to much listen to our urges for calm. we can take our $1.6 billion in aid and say we'll increase or decrease this conditioned on how you behave. we can go to the military if you return to the barracks sooner than later, if you mid wife a political transition, we'll help you more economically. on the other hand we won't. we can't kid ourselves. nothing we can say or do is going to persuade the opposition to stop protesting and organize itself as a real political party. we're not going to be able it to convince the muslim brotherhood to see essentially work within the system necessarily and give up violence. we can't necessarily persuade the army to play a more narrow, traditional role. we've got tremendous stakes but our ability to have influence, it's really modest here. >> joe? >> you know, richard, richard right after morsi was taken out of power, front page "new york

times" article on saturday, talked about all the mistakes that morsi had made and "the new york times" quoted muslim brotherhood leaders who pointed out what they called the defining blunder of morsi's one-year presidency. after mubarak appointed judges dissolved the islamist led parliament i'm quoting "the new york times" here mr. morsi declared his own authority above the courts until the constitutional convention could finish its work. if i were not in my place i would think he wants to be a dictator, one muss brother brotherhood -- muslim brotherhood leader said when he heard of the news on television. so richard, there were many even inside morsi's own ranks within the muslim brotherhood other islamists that could not believe how incompetent this man was. this man who had been given an extraordinary privilege by the people of egypt, to be their first democratically elected leader in over 52, 53 years of

military rule. >> you're absolutely right. the danger is, joe, that we don't want the lesson for the islamists to be they played the game by the rules, they then get kicked out of power, so there's no reason for them to continue to play the game by the rules. that ultimately they have to, if you will, be extra politically and turn to the streets and violence. on the other hand, i don't know what morsi would have done with three more years of power. he may have so tilted the playing field, entrenched muslim brotherhood that no election could have conceivably allowed the election to win. this is the dilemma of what you might call immay mature democracies. author tarism to real democracy is fraught with difficulty. egypt is one year into it. it's not working. the question is whether you can get it on track. the stakes are enormous. this is a country of 85 million people. >> well, and you know, the risks are enormous for the united states and people that actually

want islamists to be involved in democracy instead of being involved in terrorism. demoting democracy, another "new york times" op-ed from this past weekend writes this, one of the most important political developments of recent years was the decision of islamists parties to make peace with democracy and commit to playing the rules of the political game. leaders counseled patience to their followers. their time would come, they were told. now, supporters of the brotherhood will ask, with good reason, whether democracy still has anything to offer them. mr. morsi's removal will breathe new life into the ideological claims of radicals. of course that there is no reason for them to be involved. let's bring in chuck todd from washington right now. chuck, obviously this has to be one of the white house's biggest concerns. somehow figuring out how to separate morsi's fate from islamist's fate not only in

egypt but across the rest of the muslim world. >> well, if we don't get egypt right, then how are you going to get syria right if it ever comes to this, get libya right, these other arab spring potentially, you know, whatever we're in now summer, winter, fall, whatever it feels when it comes to the so-called arab spring. and so getting egypt right is i think imperative and the obama administration knows it and i think if they look back in hindsight and say what could have been done differently during this transition, perhaps a more active role by the united states during helping egypt with the transition, not just to holding elections, but setting up a -- the ability to govern in a democratic way. that is what got lost here. egypt figured out -- egypt knows how to do protests, elections -- >> was morsi interested in that? that's a question. was morsi interested in that?

was he interested in governing? if you look at david brooks' column from the "times" over the past weekend, he listed all the things that morsi did to show that he really wasn't interested in governing democratically, that he wanted to consolidate power. of course, he made himself the supreme ruler over the judiciary, said they were irrelevant. i guess that's the real question. how much -- how much influence did the white house feel they had over morsi's moves over the past year? >> well, i don't think they had much. they did -- obviously the gaza standoff was a big, important moment in the relationship at the time with the morsi government when morsi basically did succumb to pressure from the united states and did realize who was paying a lot of bills in egypt and so when calmer heads needed to prevail they did. i think you go back to when the morsi government came in, look, it was politically not the most

popular thing for i think anybody in the united states to want to help a muslim brotherhood government there. so i think that there was some political squeamishness if you will of helping build, you know, think about the amount of effort that the u.s. government has put in to trying to create some form of governing apparatus in iraq and afghanistan, didn't do the same thing in egypt. now granted it wasn't -- this wasn't a war-torn country, this wasn't that kind of responsibility, but i think this time, from everybody i've talked to, there is a realization that the united states, while richard's right only so much influence the united states has, helping the next government come in and building some sort of transition to governing in a democratic way, you know, even if that means constantly sending over cabinet secretaries on all levels to help them put together these apparatuses to try to have a creation of a technocratic

secular government, it better to be more involved this time than less. >> richard? >> and the chose was less last time. >> the criticism will be they gave morsi a pass. we weren't conditional in our approach afterwards that we took our eye off the ball. the u.s. ambassador too passive. going forward, egypt and syrian civil war, who knows what happens in jordan, with the iranian nuclear program. we could be looking not just at years, but decades of turbulence in this part of the world. this in some ways could become the biggest headache not just for mr. obama but his successors and successor's successor. >> thank you for your insight. you may now take painkillers. >> on that cheery ending. >> really. >> chuck todd, thank you. we'll see you coming up on "the daily rundown." coming up another new york politician looks to rebound from personal scandal. how former governor eliot spitzer is plotting his comeback.

politico's maggie haberman and "the new york times" michael varboro joins us next. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucksp. geoff: i'm the kind of guy who doesn't like being sold to. the last thing i want is to feel like someone is giving me a sales pitch, especially when it comes to my investments. you want a broker you can trust. a lot of guys at the other firms seemed more focused on selling than their clients. that's why i stopped working at my old brokerage and became a financial consultant with charles schwab. avo: what kind of financial consultant are you looking for? talk to us today.

from those to whom much is given, much is expected. i have been given much, the love of my family, the faith and trust of the people of new york, and the chance to lead the state. i am deeply sorry that i did not live up to what was expected of me. >> that was eliot spitzer announcing his resignation as governor of new york five years ago. yesterday spitzer announced he will run for comptroller of new york city. joining us on set "new york times" political prorper michael bar borrow and senior political reporter maggie haberman with us and "the washington post's" kathleen parker back at the table. i hear you.

no profit in telling the truth. i hear you. i got you. i think that's fair. joe, i think we give kathleen somewhat of a pass here. right? >> well, i think it's very interesting, maggie, it's very interesting kathleen said before when she was working with eliot spitzer on a show, that whenever she went through new york, people would run up to him, cab drivers would go, you know, four lanes over through traffic to yell at him, hey, governor, how are you doing, all very positive. this is a guy that did have a some people still cheering for him even when he left office. >> that's absolutely true. there are a lot of people who think he left too early, a lot of people who think he should have stayed and fought it out, maybe he would have survived. the reason he had to leave was not so much what he did, but he had no friends if albany at that point and no one was going to stand by him. he did a record of accomplishment and for whatever his personal failings he is going to be arguably the most

qualified city comptroller candidate the city has had in a long time and people will vote for him. >> on that front, michael, it's a very shrewd political move on spitzer's part. you go to a job that you are so overly qualified to take on, that it's going to be hard for people to say no to you and then, of course, anthony weiner may pray he's not elected mayor of new york because his life will be a living and breathing hell for four years with elliott spitzer looking over his shoulder. >> what's fascinating the way eliot spitzer is starting to talk about this job, a particularly overlooked job outside new york city, he has fully envisioned one of the most robust comptroller offices anyone has heard of, one that ventures into virgin territory like evaluating day-to-day education policy in new york city. if you're the next mayor you do not want this kind of activist

comptroll comptroller. imagine a more adver sairal comptroller than eliot spitzer. >> i don't mean to -- i want to look at what he did when he had to resign in the context of does it matter? which in some cases, for example, i would argue mark sanford it mattered because there were -- it was, you know, state money involved. and he had to address it and he didp. with anthony weiner i think people have gone completely over the top making fun of him because it's too easy. what he did was not against the law and i'm not sure in the grand scheme of thing it really matters. so the question is, what did eliot spitzer do in two or three lines and why does it matter if it does? >> he broke the law, to your point. that is at the end of the day a lot of people who also think for as many people think he should have stayed on many think he should have been charged with a

crime. he was picked up in a federal wire tapping setting up a tryst here. will it matter? to the extent this has not been worked out and processed by voters there's a lot of voters for whom this will matter at the end of the day. >> joe? >> yeah. michael, you know, fascinating thing is, you were talking about how this is a sleepy position. remember back when eliot spitzer became attorney general of new york, attorney general was a sleepy position that you held on to for four or eight years until you stepped up and became governor. >> right. >> eliot spitzer was the first person to take the position of attorney general and make people think, politicians think, lawyers think across america, you know what, maybe i want to do that as much as i want to be governor because wow, you can grab headlines. i mean he really rewrote the rules. >> yeah. he did. he's a deeply ambitious guy. i was reading some of peter elkin's book this morning. eliot spitzer was getting foreign affairs when he was 14.

and was captain of every team and every office he's ever been in. he transformed that job and he wants to turn this job into a national leadership position on urban policy. that's pretty unheard of. but to maggie's point, what's fascinating for those of us who live in new york, care about it and are going to vote in this election, is putting him side by side with an anthony weiner when it comes to those transgressions. his resume is longer arguably but his transgressions are deeper. >> very different. >> kathleen? >> first of all, the argument that anthony weiner and eliot spitzer would be at each other's throats is an argument for putting them both in office from the position of reporters it's great theater. all of these people have different offenses. i mean mark sanford, abandoned the state for five days. eliot's sinned beyond what he committed is viewed as also highly hypocritical. i mean that's a big hurdle for

him. but anthony weiner to me, the biggest -- you can dismiss sixing i suppose if you want to, but it shows a lack of judgment that to me is completely disqualifying. but i'm just trying to show that these are very -- three very different -- >> that's a great analysis in terms of the offense that weiner conducted, but it wasn't a breaking of the law and that's what the first two i believe -- >> weiner lied saying he was the victim of a crime. >> he did? >> that was the difference. he claimed for five days he was hacked. >> that's right. i remember that. >> where people had a lot of problems with it. i hear what you're saying but what got him into deeper trouble -- >> he has to address that directly to someone on camera as to how he -- how that happened, why it happened, because people will not get over the fact that he lied after. that's true. there was a whole rouse there. >> yeah. >> okay.

maggie haberman and michael, thank you so much. appreciate your insight. up next, the images from the accident are shocking but are the airlines still the safest way to travel? we're going to look at the stories of survival, many of them, next. also ahead, it's a phenomenon that raises serious questions about the safety of fracking and the director of the oscar nominated field "gasland" says flammable water is only the beginning. josh fox joins us to preview the second part of the film coming up on "morning joe."

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30 past the hour. my gosh, the wreckage is absolutely terrifying to look at but if we've learned anything from this accident and other recent plane crashes, as technology improves, so do the odds of survival. >>s i was holding the thing so tight and bang, the impact was so powerful. >> none of the passengers on asiana airlines flight 214 were thinking about statistics when their plane crash landed on saturday. it didn't party to them that there hadn't been a serious plane accident in the u.s. in three years or that crashes have been on the decline over the

past decade. >> we see people and i think we should -- they need immediate attention. >> reporter: all they were thinking is how they could possibly survive this and miraculously, 305 of the 307 passengers did. >> we saw so many people walk away and what's really important is for people to understand that airplane crashes, the majority of them, are survivable. >> reporter: from the early '60s to the '80s, 54% of passengers were killed in fatal airline accidents but in the past quarter century, that figure dropped to 39%. >> the pilots were fantastic. they really did good. >> reporter: august 1989, greensboro, north carolina, when the landing gear fails, the pilot of a piedmont air flight tries multiple maneuvers before landing on the left wing and engine. all 100 passengers escape unharmed. on a boeing 767 from newark to

warsaw, the landing gear fails but the pilot's training doesn't. he's haled as a national hero for saving all 231 people on board. in april of this year extreme weather forces a lioner flight in bali into the water short of the runway. the plane breaks in half. all 108 passengers and crew survive. >> two pilots who made all the right moves and that skill, compared with luck, had this result that was frankly astou astounding. >> reporter: the miracle on the hudson. after losing both engines to a double bird strike, shortly after takeoff from laguardia captain sully sullenberger puts his plane down in the middle of the hudson river. all 155 passengers saved. but other incidents end in the worst imaginable way. >> there are still some fires burning there as we speak. >> reporter: in 2009, the last serious accident in the u.s., cost the lives of 49 people when

colgan air flight 3407 went down in buffalo. but the reality remains, only two people are killed, for every 100 million passengers who fly worldwide. all right. tom costello covers aviation for nbc news and joins us live from san francisco. tom, you've been all over this story. the data shows that the numbers are getting better in terms of these accidents. but the record of this specific plane, the 777, is stellar, isn't it, up until now? >> absolutely. this is the first crash, fatal crash involving a 777. it came off the line in 1994. this is a workhorse plane, flown around the world for transatlantic, transcontinental, transpacific flights and, you know, the earliest and i want to stress that, earliest premim narrowly indications would suggest nothing mechanical went wrong with this flight, with this plane. the ntsb wants to shake all of that out but this has been a remarkable plane. i was flying with a pilot on a

777 a number of years ago and he said to me you almost have to purposely try to crash this thing because it's built with so many redundant systems, such a great aircraft, it's really built to try to, you know, ensure that even if you make a mistake it compensates for you. what happened in this crash? nobody knows yet for sure. >> nbc's tom costello, thank you. steve ratner, the redundant systems that tom was talking about, not only on the plane but on the ground as well. there were issues on the ground with i believe the runway being repaired in some way, a glide scope not working. >> there was one instrument landing system that was not in -- operating, but as we talked about, there are many, many ways to get a plane like that on the ground. it was not -- by the way, that has been out of service for several weeks. planes have been landing every day, dozens, without it. it does come back to pilot interesting. what's interesting when we look at all those past crashes a lot of the reasons people walked away from them was great pilot training. this is an example of not so great pilot training. in 2001, the korean airlines

were restricted from access to the u.s. because their pilot training was not up to our standards. >> coming up, it's the very definition of big business. fortune's lee gallagher is here with the global 500 list ranking the largest corporations. keep it right here on "morning joe." [ female announcer ] made just a little sweeter... because all these whole grains aren't healthy unless you actually eat them

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39 past the hour. joining us now, "fortune" magazine's assisting manager editor, the new issue features the annual global 500 list ranking the world's largest corporations. i see lots of interesting names on the list. just quickly, what qualifies obviously profit, but what else, to make the list? >> our "fortune" 500 is the

biggest companies in the u.s. by revenue, all by sales and this is basically the global version. this counts all the other giant companies, the world over, many of which are from china these days. number one is royal dutch shell on the global 500. with revenues of $481 billion. the fortune 500 itself is a list of scale. this trumps that. this is like half a trillion dollars. it's just massive. so number two is walmart which was number one on the fortune 500 at $469 billion. the biggest company in the u.s. by revenue. >> take us through the first five. >> exxon. >> exxon. exxon mobil which is actually number one in profits $45 billion in profits. >> two from the u.s. in the top three. >> sinopec group, a chinese petroleum company and then china national petroleum a state-owned enterprise, of course, from china and so those are the top five. there's a lot of energy companies on the list. the rest of the top ten are companies like bp, state grid,

toyota, volkswagen, and total the french company. >> which companies have made the biggest growth or jumped higher? >> as it did in the u.s., apple did. apple went up i think 15 or 16 slots and it did about as much on the 500 -- the u.s. list as well. apple is number two in profits of all of these 500 companies. it's number two when it comes to profit. it's an incredibly profitable company as we know. i think what's interesting you see sort of the world in the view of the global 500. we have about 83 chinese companies on the list and that's up from 73 or -- i've had my numbers wrong, 89 from 73. you have to wonder, there are 130 some u.s. companies. are we going to see a day where the chinese companies overtake. the european companies are on the decline. >> is that the takeaway from this, basically america is

staying, europe declining and china ascending and we'll see the lines cross. >> yeah. >> i think you would agree with is that it's arbitrary to say it's an american company or european company. these companies are global. royal dutch shell qualifies as a european company the way you guys do it, but obviously it has major presence in the u.s. a lot of jobs, lot of facilities and everything. >> and a company like pepsi or p&g is so global now, i mean it's funny to almost call it an american company. obviously it's an american company. all of these companies at this scale are so incredibly global you're right, the regional differences almost start to disappear. >> kathleen? >> you know, i was thinking about apple and, of course, we're in an apple rich environment here. i've got two apples sitting here. >> here we are. >> do you see that still, do you see apple still ascending over time? this death of steve jobs have an affect on that at all? >> we have a big story in this issue making the case for apple has peaked and apple has room to grow. our writer adam who wrote the

book on apple says okay, enough with all this talk, let's look at both of these cases and he lays out equal points on each side. on the one hand, you know, this is a company that has really been threatened by competitors, the pace of innovation has slowed, it's been three years since the ipad. on the other hand, it's doing all these new things with fingerprint technology and the itunes account number is 575 million. got only knows what it could do with that. people are talking about getting into the payment system. so there's a lot of -- but he comes down on the side that apple has peaked. >> really? >> yeah. >> i think people have just, you know, they're always expecting with their next apple product to be blown away by the innovation of it and how far can you innovate every six months joe, jump in. >> steve jobs was always doing that. the problem is, since steve jobs' passing we've had disappointing new products, one after another after another. the iphone 5 wasn't a jump from the iphone 4s.

we'll see what happens moving forward. lee, i am curious as we move forward as a country over the next decade, a lot of things will be happening, including, of course, an energy revolution that's going to change everything. it's going to make manufacturing in america a lot more attractive. it's going to obviously drive down our energy costs. it's going to make us more -- even more powerful exporters. how is this list that we're looking at right now, how is it going to change over the next decade based on the energy revolution, the technological advances, all the things that quite frankly i'll just say it, i mean, a lot of things seem to be breaking america's way economically right now? >> that's true. that's true. it's a great point, joe. i mean seven of the top ten companies are energy related on this list and they're conventional petroleum oil and gas companies. everything is changes as we speak. you mentioned manufacturing. i mean a lot of people think the rust belt will make a resurgence and look what's happening in

north dakota. i mean, things are shifting in that sector which is, you know, one of the biggest sectors on this list, and certainly a huge driving force of our economy. so that's a reason to be optimistic for sure. >> steve ratner, i want to go to you on this optimistic note as well, because of course we as a country beat ourselves up any chance we get. back in the 1980s, of course, after the japanese bought 30 rock and pebble beach it was the end of western civilization as we knew it. you go forward, you look at the energy revolution, the natural gas revolution, you look at the fact that manufacturing costs are going to be driven down because energy prices are being driven down, you look at the fact that jeff immelt and others are starting to look at outsourcing and wondering famous harvard study over the last couple years, whether outsourcing was a fad and a bad fad at that. are we going to see the possibility of a real ren know

sans in american manufacturing so the list we see a decade from now is even more american cen drik. >> joe, i hate to disagree with you because i know the consequences of that and i don't completely disagree with you. >> you don't love america. feel free. go ahead. go ahead. >> american flag. i fly my flag like you do. >> what consequences. >> i sent you a picture of my flag. i have one. >> i saw it. it it's beautiful. >> the energy revolution is real. there's no doubt about that. it is going to add to our gross domestic product and improve our trade balance and create some jobs, although those kinds of facilities tend not to employ huge numbers of people. but the manufacturing renaissance story which i read a lot about, heard a lot about, i lived it during a part of it during my service with the car industry, i think is a bridge almost too far. we will do better in manufacturing. we're doing better at a price which is we're paying our workers less in order to bring jobs to this country. but we are not going to compete with the emerging countries even

china, let alone the emerging asian countries as they develop quite good manufacturing at lower costs of labor. even mexico today produces cars as efficiently as the u.s. with obviously much lower cost labor. >> but steve, the thing is, though, right now, we talked about apple, you look at technology, you look at manufacturing, you look at the fact that when we go ahead and let our items be manufactured overseas, sometimes it actually slows down the creative process. our products aren't as innovative. i just -- don't you think that because people are going to be wanting to get their goods and items faster and technology is moving at such a faster pace, that will encourage not just low wage jobs to come here and stay here but higher wage jobs? >> our best shot is higher wage jobs, jobs with big value added

highly complex products. we're not going to compete making steel in the future. i take your point. you're absolutely right. people like short supply lines. i just want to be realistic about what the actual impact of that will be. >> leigh, stee what you've started. thank you very much. fortune's nobleglobal 500 list t now. see you next week. somebody has a book coming out. coming up a new film premiers on hbo tonight, highlighting what homeowners call a dangerous byproduct of fracking. the director of "gasland" part 2 discusses us to discuss the gas and oil boom drilling. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. we had never used a contractor before and didn't know where to start. at angie's list, you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare written by people just like you. no company can pay to be on angie's list, so you can trust what you're reading. angie's list is like having thousands of close neighbors,

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♪ it's been five years since the first proposal to build thousands of gas drills came knocking. with thousands of cases of water contamination and health problems across the u.s., it's not just the numbers that get you dizzy. >> this is where we eat, sleep, live. this is our home. >> there's only one problem. the gas industry denied everything. the war for who is going to tell this story is on. >> never underestimate the power of money. >> it's scary when your own government is afraid of a

business. >> people complain about the price of gas. wait till you're paying twice that for water. >> okay, that was a clip of hbo's part two. here with us now, josh fox. welcome back to the show. >> thank you. >> good to see you. let's start with the controversy here. obviously, you're considered by energy companies to be an extremist who is spreading lies. let's go through each one, one by one. how do you respond to that? because obviously they have something to protect. >> yeah, the energy companies have been attacking me, my film, the families in the film. i guess for 3 1/2 years now since it's been out. the continuing investigation shows that gas drilling con tam nates water supplies. what this film is about, the first key scene is people lighting their water on fire. this film is about the oil and gas industry lighting our

democracy on fire. how the oil and gas industry goes in and influences our elected officials at every level. and finally at the federal level. and deprives people from justice. >> tell us what we're looking at here, just for those who don't know. >> that's a water well that's exploding with 15 feet of flames. after nearby drilling took place. what we know from the science of the gas industry, that they've been investigating this problem for the, many years because they're losing their product, they're losing it into the atmosphere. the cement casings is breaking down at alarming rates. 5% of the cement barriers fail immediately upon drilling. 50% of them fail in a 30-year period. this is the gas industry's own science. when they go out and deny and attack the film and talk about this, what they're doing is they're following the tobacco industry's playbook. for decades sponsored bogus

science, they went out into the media to try to create a false debate about whether or not smoking is harmful for you. they've hired the same pr firm, hill and notten, which invented the strategy of creating doubt in the media to stave off regulation and action -- >> steve. >> as i look at this as an interested observer but not part of it and i look at the keystone pipeline where the environmental groups are up in arms. everyday, you see them doing something else in opposition in keystone. yet you don't see the same thing about fracking -- >> that's not true at all. >> that's what i see -- >> -- five years ago we heard that there was no way you were going to stop fracking in new york state. >> we have a governor who's attempting to weave his way through a complex political matrix. >> -- on the environmental impact study in new york state -- >> you go back and see how many

stories -- how many stories have there been in "the new york times" about the keystone pipeline -- >> to be honest, that's all one movement. what we're seeing here is not an energy revolution, as joe put it so many times in the last segment, it is a paradigm shift in energy development towards what we're calling extreme energy. fracking, mountain top removal for coal. tar sands which is what the people who are protesting the keystone are protesting. the form of oil development. and deep water drilling. fracing is a big part of that problem. energy development techniques are known to be much more toxic than the conventional ways and use a lot more energy. what we're also seeing is an extreme approach to the way this is handled in government. we have 700 -- we know that $747 million were expect in lobbying to get an exemption to the safe drinking water act to hydraulic fracturing. that is what the safe drinking

water act is supposed to monitor. what we're seeing here, and this is the story of the film, is a detailed explanation of how the drilling industry, as you saw in the last segment, multinational oil companies, are creating human rights abuses across america, and they're literally influencing the government so it moves away from the people who are protesting. >> from what he's saying, especially given the concept you're putting on the table, that the protesters of fracing are being taken seriously? >> they haven't really been successful. new york state is an example -- can i just finish one sentence? >> yes, let him talk. >> in new york state, fracing has not been approved. many people feel the governor is thinking about the political future as much as the environment. in most other states, fracing is going on, it's been approved. i am not familiar with many of the things -- >> well -- >> can i just finish?

-- that you say happen. kathleen may want to weigh in. the environmental movement is much more concerned with the tar sands in canada and the keystone pipeline than they are with fracing. that's just my perception. >> let me explain this is one movement -- the front line -- when we're dealing with fracing and drilling in 34 states and the projection is 1 million to 2 million new wells in the united states alone. you're talking about the coastal communities in the gulf affected by the deep water horizon spill, mountain top removal, you're seeing one movement moving forward against extreme energy. we have local bans throughout new york state. we have a ban in the city of pittsburgh. we have all of mora county, new mexico, passed a ban. californians against fracing was just launched. >> so we're going to have to let people watch the documentary and decide. you can catch that tonight at 9

p.m. on hbo. thank you so much. up next, eliot spitzer's return. how the former governor's checkered pass my play into his political future. plus, a live interview, as federal investigators look into the cause of saturday's deadly plane crash in san francisco. "morning joe" will be right back. i'm jennifer hudson. i hate getting up in the morning. i love cheese. i love bread. i'm human! and the new weight watchers 360 program lets me be.

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 on the west coast, as we take a live look at new york city. we begin with the investigation into the plane crash in san francisco, where we continue to learn new details about what happened. asiana airlines now says the pilot of flight 214 was, quote, still in training for the boeing 777 where -- when he attempted to land the aircraft. the coroner is examining whether one of the two fatalities may have been caused by an emergency vehicle responding to the scene. nbc's danielle lee reports. >> reporter: amidst the charred remains, investigators have obtained what may be one of their greatest clues. they say the black box voice recording from inside the cockpit captures crews calling for increased speed just seven seconds before the crash. 1 1/2 seconds before impact, the crew unsuccessfully tries to abort the landing. >> the approach speed was 137

knots. i will tell you that the speed was significantly below 137 knots, and we're not talking about a few knots. >> reporter: this morning, the national transportation safety board will continue to analyze the damage strewn along the runway. the boeing 777 was ending a more than 10-hour flight from seoul, south korea, when witnesses say the plane's tail hit the seawall just beyond the runway and broke off. survivors are still haunted by those terrifying moments. >> i felt, you know, i was dying, that was the moment. >> reporter: two 16-year-old girls from china were thrown from the plane and killed. this morning, more than a dozen survivors remain hospitalized. several are in critical condition. >> the most serious injuries were abdominal injuries, spine injuries, head injuries. >> reporter: ben levy is among the dozens who walked away with

minor injuries. >> bruised ribs and torn ligaments inside. >> reporter: he considers himself lucky. after a harrowing flight where doctors say it's a miracle so many survived. >> there is something changing in the way we fly, having said that, everybody who's seen this landing or heard about it can tell something went wrong and it does point to potentially the pilot. >> yeah, hey, steve ratner, you've landed there several times, you're a pilot, and you've gone in there. talk about what you're looking at, specifically the changes to the runway. several things going on. av yawnics on the ground were in place that will guide experienced and less experienced pilots in. also i guess they changed the approach to the runway. because they're fixing it up right now. what can you tell us? >> certainly those are factors. i'll get into those in a second. what we think we're quite

confident of, i think very confident of at this point is pure pilot error. there's no evidence of mechanical failure. clearly the pilot made a mistake. the second thing i think we're confident of is the reason the plane crashed was it stalled. it was going so slowly the wings could no longer hold it up in the air. which is why you have that huge boom as it hits the ground. the third thing which we're less confident of, but i've seen reports on the aviation websites, it appears on final approach, generally marked about 5 miles out from the airport, he was too high and too fast, and so he had to get down, he had to get down fast, and he then had what we call an unstabilized approach. you really want to have a stabilized approach when you fly this thing. let me quickly address the question of the pilot and the approach and the instrument landing system and all that

stuff. yes, the instrument landing system was out of commission. it shouldn't have mattered. it was a beautiful day. there was no wind. there are multiple other ways to land at that airport with using visual approaches which are normal and legal. also vertical guidance. lights that guide you down to the runway that were working. so it appears that the pilot may have been somewhat unfamiliar with this type of approach. it's not one that commercial -- i've flown it many times, it's not a hard approach to fly. he was not stabilized when he got there and he didn't recognize what we call a stall, the loss of air speed, and that was it. >> is there anything, steve, that would kick in automatically on the plane when you get the speed that low and it's about to stall? is there an alert? is there an alarm? did that happen too late for him to do anything about it? >> there are multiple alarms. being you have something that be looks like a speed dommer it. also a stick shaker. everything starts vibrating.

so even the sleepyist pilot should have recognized that. one issue -- by the way, south korean airlines have had problems before and have been restricted in their u.s. airspa airspace. there are command and control cultures where the captain's word sometimes is always it and the co-pilots are sometimes unwilling to challenge the caption. that leads to what we call bad cockpit resource management. >> miguel with the latest on the wounded there. miguel, what do you know? >> we know at least six people remain hospitalized in critical condition, including one child. many injured were brought here on saturday. some 53 were treated and released. this hospital saw four waves of victims. that's how many injured were coming to the doors here. it was a very similar scene we saw at all these hospitals across the bay area. this morning, six remain

hospitalized. six remain in critical condition at this hospital alone, including one child in critical condition at san francisco general. >> all right, nbc's miguel, thank you very much. five years after resigning, eliot spitzer is looking to make a political comeback. in a phone interview with "the new york times," spitzer announced yesterday he will run for comptroller in new york city. he has been candid about his past. the former government has said, quote, i am hopeful there will be forgiveness. i'm asking for it. spitzer joins scott stringer in the race for city comptroller. saying, in part, eliot spitzer is going to spurn the campaign finance program to try and buy personal redemption with his family fortune. the voters will decide.

do you think he will -- >> a lot of people are these days, people are handing them out like cotton candy. north, south, east, west, a lot of forgiveness. i'm all for forgiveness. that's great. please, forgive me for what i do every five minutes. let me tell you why i think there's a difference between eliot spitzer and anthony weiner. anthony weiner is a guy who -- he was a generalist. he'd go on the floor. he was very combative. he didn't have really long track record. if you look legislatively, you can't find -- some people criticizing him for this now, you can't find a lot of accomplishments because he was usually at war with the other side. i'm not saying eliot spitzer is a more peaceful guy. but eliot spitzer, for better or worse, i think in many cases, for better, really took on the big institutions in, on wall

street. he of course went overboard in many cases, especially later in his career. but i remember, mika, you and i having a debate on whether to have him on the show -- >> i think it was a fight. >> it was a fight. we were fighting. you did not want to have him on this show. i said, he can explain a lot of this wall street stuff as well as anybody else. and we really did, we were very angry. you got very angry at me. i'll bring this up, mika. first of all, you're a new york voter. i'm curious how you'll vote here. and secondly, because i know how you're going to vote against him. secondly, don't you think the fact that he's competent and would actually be the best comptroller for the city, most likely? >> all right. >> wouldn't make a lot of sense to vote for this guy, regardless of what's in his background. >> i'd like to clarify our fight. you still got wrong. you still get it wrong today. it's unbelievable.

i have no problem with him coming on the show. i think he's very, very smart. but i just wanted him to come on the show to talk about what happened. i wasn't going to avoid the conversation about what he did, how it happened and how it damaged his credibility and perhaps hurt the entire process of trust. between our officials, elected or appointed. and the citizens. nobody on the set wanted to talk to him about it. i thought, well, you know what, i'm not going to have him on here unless we address the elephant in the room. >> i was more worried about why people's 401ks had been absolutely devastated by wall street greed a lot more than i was about what he was doing in his personal life. i think we found out what we needed to know about that, and he had to resign because of it, so -- >> we ought to talk about how anthony weiner might be an effective mayor rather than his tweets which is far less worse than a lot of these guys who get

passes. but there's not -- >> okay, let me get -- okay, "new york post" had to be in heaven, willie geist. >> they're off to a hot start. "new york post." >> what do they say? >> there it is right there, i'm not going to say it. the "daily news," a little slower start for the "daily news." >> they're all human beings. >> sanford within the last couple months, sanford and weiner have shown guys like eliot spitzer you can do it. i don't know if weiner will win but -- >> mark sanford was ready to talk about it and that's the only issue -- >> weiner's been talking about it as well. >> spitzer's going to have to talk about it. i know him rather well. but it's been clear to me that he does not want to be a business guy. he wants to be in public service.

you can agree or not agree. but this is -- but he wants to serve. i have no doubt he said to himself, well, why not me? >> the key here, at the end of the day, comes down to competence. at the end of the day, people are going to judge you on what kind of job you're going to do for them. are you going to be a good public servant or not. you take mark sanford. mark obviously had a very, very messy situation. occurred while he was governor. that was difficult. you know what, people would go out. any question they had on the campaign trail, when he got to the issues, he would talk about them. he went in great detail about them. whether you agreed with him or not. his opponent was kept away from the press. was afraid many times to have press conferences it and over type, the people of south carolina, conservative district of course, decided they would go with the conservative republican because he'd been their governor

for eight years and he'd been a really good governor. i think actually spitzer is going to get that same benefit of the doubt because he was a very significant attorney general. he went after wall street greed early on. he was predicting what happened on september 15th, 2000, and i think at the end of the day, yeah, you can screw up, but guess what, mika, everybody's human, everybody makes mistakes. at the end of the day, are you going to be able to run your office? and that just may be the question that differentiates eliot spitzer from anthony weiner. if weiner loses, it's not going to be because of tweets, it's going to be because people don't think he's got the temperament or the ability or the background to run the most difficult city in america. >> i don't disagree. does anyone here at the table think eliot spitzer is incapable of doing the job effectively? >> i think the bigger question for people beyond the personal

side will be how he conducted himself as attorney general. there's a large group of people in the business community who will object to him not because of any personal foibles but will be the issue that he tried a lot of his cases in public. but he didn't win when he went to court. but he put a lot of pressure on people publicly. there's powerful people in new york who feel the way he conducted himself on the job was inappropriate. so you're going to have two areas eliot will have to content with his adversaries. >> he picked a race that should be about as easy a race for him as there should be. there's only one candidate, not a particularly well-known candidate. so that is offset from everything richard just set. >> teresa heinz kerry was admitted to the hospital yesterday for an unspecified medical condition. heinz kerry, who is 74, is listed in critical but stable condition. we'll be following that. and now to egypt, where thousands of demonstrators are

preparing for another day protests. as the fate of egypt's government remains uncertain. supporters have ousted president mohamed morsi are calling for him to be reinstated and they're finding themselves, at the center of violent clashes with the egyptian army. according to the country's ministry of health, more than 40 people were killed and at least 300 injured early this morning when gunshots were fired at what began as a peaceful protest outside a military building in cairo. there are conflicting reports as to which side started the firefight. military officials say five supporters of mohamed morsi and one officer were killed. richard hass, are we talking about an all-out civil war here? how can we even define or characterize what is happening in egypt? >> that's the frightening prospect. a political vertigo where the muslim brotherhood feels s

legitimate that they lost power they won through the ballot, so they're angry. the goal for the army, the goal for the opposition, is to restart, reboot, a political process where the muslim brotherhood contest it. if they basically say we're still owed three years of leadership, we're not going to rejoin a new political game, then you're facing prolonged civil strife against an economy that's in free fall. this has the potential to be a nightmare. >> coming up, did pilot inexperience play a role in saturday's deadly plane crash in san francisco? the head of the national transportation safety board, deborah hersman, joins us next. but first, a check of the forecast. >> after a long holiday weekend for a lot of us that we sweated out, let's change the chapter, let's change the tune, let's talk about the tropics.

overnight, tropical storm chantal formed. it's moving to the west rapidly. it will head towards barbados. this forecast path, when you see the direction of it, if this was august or september, i'd be alarmed and say we have trouble on our horizon. but it's early july. the winds aren't favorably, typically aren't storms out of this region this time of year, and that could be the case too. we could have a tropical storm in florida but not a big powerful storm. it's so humid in the eastern half of the country this afternoon, we'll get those afternoon showers and storms. it's so hot and humid, some people may want it to rain. at least it will cool it off a little bit. it's another scorcher from coast to coast. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. oh, he's a fighter alright.

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i was looking in the window. i was just looking. i could realize we were too low. basically, it sounded like we were about to land in the water. >> there was a loud noise and the whole plane shook. we knew something terrible has gone wrong. >> the top just totally collapsed on a lot of people. a lot of people were injured. >> i was holding so tight. and bang, the impact was so powerful, i felt, you know, i was dying, that was the moment. nobody was moving. there's no sound.

nothing. >> 23 past the hour. joining us now from san francisco national transportation safety board, chairman deborah hersman, kathleen parker, steve rattner at the table as well. let's start with what you can tell us at this point. i know it's still early. you've even said it's too early to rule anything out. but what can -- on the face of it, what can you rule in? >> well, the good news is is we were able to recover the flight recorder that had very good data on it. it wasn't damaged in the crash. what the cockpit voice recorder told us about the last seconds of the crash are very helpful to our investigators. seven seconds before impact, the crew discussed that they were slow. they were not at their target air speed of 137 knots. four seconds before impact, they got a stick shaker activation. this is a vibration in the yoke of the aircraft that's giving

them a warning they're about to stall the airplane. 1.5 seconds before impact they initiate or call for a go-around. this is communication between the the two pilots saying they want to aboard the landing and try again. this is very helpful to our investigators as far as focusing our investigation. >> joe, jump in. >> so you've said they were below their target 137 knots. do you have specifics or estimates or approximately what speed they were going at? >> you know, we have some good information from the flight data recorder, but we really need to validate the raw data to actually get an exact speed. we have some information from air traffic control and radar returns. we want to corroborate all that information so we get a precise speed. they were well below 137. it wasn't just give or take a few knots. so once we identify exactly

how -- what their low speed was, we're going to put that information out. we just need to validate that data first. >> steve. >> there have been some reports they were high and hot when they passed over the san mateo bridge so they had to make an unusually steep unstabilized approach into the airport which could have contributed to the fact they stalled as they got to the runway. does that sound plausible to you? >> i think we've got to look, again, at all this information. for us, it's really putting together all of the pieces of the puzzle, taking the recorder and air traffic information and overlaying all of those, so we know exactly where they were and what kind of communication they were having. for those of you who know about flying and aviation, you know unstabilized approaches are very risky. we investigate a lot of accidents, approach and landing. we want to make sure the pilots are monitoring, they don't get behind the aircraft, and we're going to be taking a look at all of those factors in this

investigation. >> don't the initial stages, though, of this investigation show that what steve had asked you seems to be the case, from eyewitness accounts they did come in hot? >> well, we've got to take a look at all of those speeds, but what we do know is when they were configured for landing, they were at -- they had the engines at idol and had the flaps down and they were very slow in this critical phase of flight and we're going to walk all of this back to look at all of the approach. we have 24 hours of flight recorder information and we're going to put all of that together. we will release more factual information in the coming days. >> all right. ntsb chairman deborah hersman, thank you very much for joining us this morning. we want to bring in retired american airlines captain jay rollins. he joins us now from miami.

jay, hoping you were able to hear the latest from deborah. in terms of what you've seen, read and heard about this accident, are there any plus automobi plausible conclusions that come to mind? >> what strikes me, the first time she mentioned their target speed was 137 and they let the aircraft to slow well below that speed such that the stick shaker would begin, that tells me that the aircraft was approaching stall. what it sounds like to me happened was they were indeed high and fast. pulled the throttles all the way back to idle in order to get the aircraft in position for landing. what is not normal is after they got the gear and the flaps down, which is a high drag situation, with the power all the way back, the aircraft will slow very quickly once they get to the glide path. and a pilot has to be very

conscious of that and leave the power as the speed slows and approaches the target speed. if you don't, it will shoot right through it and before you know it, you're getting a stick shaker. >> so what he's describing is what we talked about as an unstabilized approach, meaning they were too high, so they pull the power to idle so they can make a descent without making too much air speed. so that's a really -- when jay describes it as normal, i would describe it as a pretty dangerous way to fly. >> i think everybody's wonder, at that seven second point, theoretically, could they have recognized the problem, as severe as it was, and raised the accelerator and gotten the plane up higher and circled back around or something, is that possible?

jay? >> are you asking me? >> yes. >> well, no, it was normal to the point that they began to get the power back, get the aircraft what we call dirty. the flaps down, the gear down. all of that should have occurred much earlier in the approach. and what it sounds like happened was they waited too long to begin that cycle. and the aircraft was in much, much closer than it should have been to touch down by the time they were stabilizing the aircraft. it should have been stabilized very close to that san mateo bridge, such that the power was in the correct position, they were on speed, on glide path. when you wait seven seconds before touchdown and the power is still an issue, that's a dangerous approach. >> jay rollins, thank you very much. obviously, we'll be following this as the investigation continues. up next, the big business of depression. dr. nancy snyderman join us along with "the new york times" catherine repel who explains how

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34 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." joe, economists talk about the great depression, but it may be the real kind of depression that's had a huge impact on the economy. the economic reporter for "the new york times" writes this, and i found this article you wrote fascinating, you write in part, the mentally ill are at a higher risk of poverty than their peers which increases their need for other public safety net services. their use of those services according to one es mass probably costs taxpayers another $140 billion to $160 billion a year. altogether, cumulative mental health issues, depression, bipolar disorder, among others, are costing the u.s. economy about $500 million. that's more than the government spent on all of medicare during the last fiscal year.

nbc's chief medical editor dr. nancy snyderman is here as well. good to have you. unbelievable numbers when you think about it. >> it really is. we talked about it a good bit on the show. especially, it's not just younger americans, but younger americans are more heavily medicated than any generation in our history. but also, catherine, a lot of this may just have to do with us making better diagnoses and pigeon holing this. >> the data are kind of scarce unfortunately. it looks like over the last ten years or so, actually, the numbers have been pretty stable. the difference is that we have better information about what kinds of treatment we should be expanding and that sort of thing, although not perfect information. you talked about overmedication

but actually the rates of treatment are quite low relative to the rates of diagnosis. not getting adequate treatment either because they can't afford it or because they're too embarrassed or other reasons. >> that embarrassment, the stigma that we saw through most parts of our society 10, 20, 30 years ago, has gone away. now it seems though at times we've got a society that's almost obsessive on mental health and you have so many -- i just wonder, is there a danger of overtreatment? >> i know that people worry about this. and there are concerns about this from, you know, from lots of pundits, from a lot of the experts that i've spoken with, they basically say no, the bigger problem is undertreatment for a lot of types of disorders

because of stigma and other issues. >> nancy. >> yeah, i think we have no stigma when it comes to anti-anxiety disorders and sleep disorders. if you want to talk about schizophrenia -- >> or ocd. >> the fringy things where people say, no, not in my family, my family's perfect, there's a phenomena stigma, and that's a barrier for treatment. there's extraordinary data that we know that throwing pills at people does not cure mental illness. talk therapy, psycho therapy, in conjunction, that's what helps mental illness. >> that's so important you say that. because it seeps to me right now, if i'm not mistaken, it seems to me i think psychiatrists are actually, they get money from insurance companies for throwing pills at patients. they don't get money for sitting

there and actually engaging in therapy. >> that's right. >> i've heard one story after another after another of young and old going in, a psychiatrist looking at them for five minutes, throwing pills at them and saying come back a month from now -- >> therein lies the rub. >> this is a system set to fail. >> if you have psychiatrists who by law subscribe pills, and remember, we have physicians who i think are very underutilized, this is a fractured system. it could be a much more cohesive system where you have talk therapy by psychologists. but those two people have to be talking. >> and the conversation has to help the patient understand the medication that he or she is on. >> and the side effects. a lot of times, what's the trigger for the illness to begin with.

we talk about a lot of teenagers being on marijuana. a lot of times they can feel the mental illness coming on and they self-medicate because they don't know how to describe what's happening to them. >> the impact on our economy, i just found that to be -- when you think of all the different people receiving benefits -- >> if you look at the numbers, the amount we actually spend treating mental illness is hugely underwhelmed by the indirect costs. you mentioned some of those things being like social assistance and welfare, but there's also huge productivity costs. people suffering from mental illness, they miss work, they're less productive at work. they're less likely to complete their schooling. they're more likely to drop out of high school, drop out of college, drop out of elementary school in many cases. so even if they're treated as adults and they're able to put in a 9:00 to 5:00 day, if they have less education, they're

less likely to get those higher paying jobs to begin with. >> to double social security disability because of mental disorders in 15 years is an unbelievable statistic. when you go through treatment, is that a lifelong benefit then? do they stay in that queue for good? >> not necessarily. >> is there a system that treats them and they move out of that? >> the problem is we're lumping mental illness together. there are some people who can be treated and then it's done and they return to very productive lives. >> that happens a lot as well. >> absolutely. there are other people for whom treatment and appropriate talk therapy gets them back into productivity. i think what we don't want to see happen is this economic drain because people are being poorly treated and undertreated. >> there's sort of like a poverty trap that's effectively a mental illness trap. you come down with a severe depressive episode, you

effectively have to leave your work, you go on disability. >> you get derailed and that's it. >> maybe you get treated and maybe you recover but you've lost several years of work. you have this gap on your resume. how do you explain it? >> you can't get back in, that's the problem. >> so you're living a poverty sort of forever. >> incredible piece. i was reading it yesterday and said get her, get her on. the article is in the latest issue of "new york times" magazine. doctors, thank you. today's business headlines are next, with cnbc's brian sullivan. "morning joe" back in a moment. [ male announcer ] the wind's constant force

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all right, let's see. now you're expecting me to make fun of him and i don't know what to say because he's kind of nice and his daughter's adorable. cnbc's brian sullivan. mortgage rates topping your list of stories. >> all about the consumer as we head into the big summer months. thanks very much, it's good to be back. mortgage rates are set to spike again. don't want to bore everybody but the bond market has made a huge shift. the mortgage you take out, 30-year fixed, a.r.m., whatever it may be, is based on the treasury bond. yields have spiked. mortgage rates -- by the way, here's what i want to highlight, because i know mortgage rates spike and that's the headline. however, look at that chart i prepared for you. yes, we are spiking.

but when you look -- ask your parents what they paid for a mortgage. ask what maybe we paid for a mortgage seven or eight years ago. 6% used to seem like great news. now we're viewing 6% as sort of a negative level. keep the perspective in mind long term about where mortgage rates are. yes, they're up still. they are historically favorable. one thing not favorable is the price of oil and gas. i just drove back from wisconsin yesterday. the whole country seemed to be on the road. gas prices around $4 in parts of the midwest where i was. wti west texas intermediate's at a 15-year high so look for gas prices to continue to decline. today's the five-year anniversary of boone pickens' plan. he's on today, "street signs," cnbc, check it out. >> thank you very much. up next, from jumping out of planes to crossing freezing rivers, it's another day in the

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committed, courageous. keep looking at what your hands and your feet are doing. don't look down. you see what people are made of. >> the heights, i don't do so well with the heights. >> i'm not looking down. >> i'm looking straight up. >> slow and easy, robin. >> hands and feet, robin. you got this. >> come on, robin. >> ahhh! woo! >> that looks so cool. i would definitely look down. i would not be able to help myself. that was a scene from nbc's new reality tv show, "get out alive" with bear grylls. he joins us now.

bear, i just found out who his next guest is and i'm scared for you, i just don't even know. when is he coming on the show? >> what, russell brand? >> yes. >> we do a series called "wild weekends" where i take well-known people away on an adventure. that's the plan. >> make sure to tell him he's well known. >> yeah, he wants to be known so -- >> i loved your interview with hip, it was great. >> okay, good, okay. i don't think about 6 million people did but thank you, bear. >> they love you all the more for it because it was honest and vulnerable. >> yeah, exactly. >> nice. >> that's why he has a show because he can describe things like that. ooh. okay, first of all, tell us about "get out alive" and do peep gpeople get out alive? >> they do get out alive. >> my lord, look at this. >> we take 20 regular americans, 10 couples, loved ones, fathers/sons, mothers/daughters,

and i take them on eight bigged an adventures. each week, i send one couple home. i'm looking for the qualities of a survival, for courageous and determination but also humanity and kindness and resourcefulness and all the stuff that matters in the wild. >> and actually makes for a great character. >> this whole series "get out alive" is a revealing character. when you put the squeeze on, you see what people are made of. for me, incredibly moving experience. by the end, there's one couple left and i give them half a million. but you know what, they totally deserved it. i said to them first, there will be reward for those of you who last but pain first. when you see peep overcome real adversity, in their own lives and in these journeys, it's moving. >> it's symbolic too. >> so you take pairs.

is there any particular combination that seems to work best? you say father/son? >> no, i think people say are there heroes still in america, and the answer's yes and they're hidden in regular people. there's no mold for a hero. you see it in the start. some are strong, some are -- but there's no mold. i said, if you want to impress me, impress me with your actions, not your words. this isn't a test of physical fitness, who's strongest or the best, you know, that's -- it's much more about heart and effort and courage and friendship and all of that stuff. >> this is going to be interesting. >> you think we can get you and russell together? >> i don't know if we'd get out alive. >> there will be a few fireworker but i think we'll get you out alive. >> "get out alive" with bear grylls tonight at 9:00 p.m. on nbc. thank you very much. up next, what, if anything,

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television and politics. >> exactly. yot spitzer. >> i learned that mika spent part of her week off at 10 downing street sitting in winston churchill's chair, how is that. >> steve making fun of my vacation. hey, i was not in the south of france. my brother, mark, is doing an incredible job as ambassador to sweden so i thank him very much. all right, that's it for today. if it's way too early, it's time for "morning joe." time for chuck todd with "the daily rundown." have a great day. good morning from washington. it's monday, july 8th, 2013. i'm chuck todd. it's a busy day in washington. live pictures of the courtroom in sanford, florida, where any minute, george zimmerman's lawyers will start calling witnesses. they put zimmerman's mother on