yeah... try new alka seltzer fruit chews. they work fast on heartburn and taste awesome. these are good. told ya! i'm feeling better already. [ male announcer ] new alka seltzer fruits chews. enjoy the relief! good an. live from sanford, florida, outside the sem notice county courthouse waiting for the jury to reach a verdict in the george zimmerman murder trial. >> we're going to send you back to deliberate. thank you very much. you are excused. >> right now the six-person panel is debating zimmerman's fate. we have every angle covered on this saturday afternoon including a live interview with the attorney for trayvon martin's family in just a few moments and also in the news. >> it is really overwhelming to see how many people have been willing to be civically engaged in a way that is respectful of

civil discourse but also in a way that says we demand to be heard. >> thousands pack the texas capitol and protesters are removed by force, but they could not stop republicans from passing one of the toughest abortion bills in the entire country, where will opponents take the fight now? also, great expectations, the royal couple is expected to deliver a future monarch at any moment now and believe you me, london is ready. we'll get to all of the stories in a moment. first, though, let's get you up to speed on what's happening here in sanford, florida, jurors in the george zimmerman trial in deliberations for more than seven hours now, the six women on that panel deliberated for three and a half hours yesterday before taking a break for the night. there was one communication from the jury, though, a request for a numbered list of the evidence. judge nelson handed them the case after prosecutors and the defense portrayed drastically

different accounts of what happened that rainy february night when trayvon martin was shot. >> if that defendant had done only what he was supposed to do, see and call, none of us would be here. none of us. that's not who he was. that's not where he was that night in his heart. >> that's cement. that, the sidewalk. that is want an unarmed teenager with nothing but skittles trying to get home. >> a small group of protesters gathered outside the courthouse. police and city leaders here and across the state say they are taking precautions for what could unfold in the aftermath of the verdict, could being the operative word there.

in miami authorities are preparing where supporters and opponents can gather and let their voices be heard. joining me, the attorney for the martin family. always good to he so you, sir. >> glad to be here, craig. >> do you have any intel about when this jury might come out? >> no. >> this verdict might come out? >> no. lawyers, we learn long ago, you don't try to predict what a jury is going to do. you just pray for justice. >> what have you been telling the family to prepare them for a verdict? >> as we have all said through this long journey for justice, craig, you know, you pray that it is fair. you pray that it is transparent, and then you accept the rule of law. we're very confident. we have always had the faith that as long as they base their verdict on the evidence, they will hold a killer of that unarmed child accountable and the more time passes, we see that as a good thing. >> you mentioned transparency.

you do think the process by in large has been transparent, right. >> and i think not only have we watched in sanford, florida, but the entire world has watched this process unfold, and that was very important, especially when we talk about once the verdict is delivered. >> i want to talk to you really quickly before i play sound from the closing yesterday and talk about the trial. there was an allegation made against you yesterday on another network, and the assertion was that a lot of this has been crump's fault. >> correct. >> first of all, what was the assertion? >> i guess the assertion was that had i not gotten involved, then george zimmerman never would have been arrested. as if i have the power of the state of florida and the government to arrest somebody. i have none of that power.

the person not arrested. what a terrible message that sends to society. >> i want to talk about the trial specifically. i will play a piece of the prosecution's closing. listen to it and let's talk about it on the other side. here it is. >> this isn't a complicated case. it is a common sense case. it is not a case about self-defense. it is a case about self denial. george zimmerman. >> was it that simple? was that assertion that simple? >> no. no. you know, when you really think about it, we are focused on the case and focused on getting

justice for trayvon martin and we're not focused on personal attacks of anybody. we tell everybody that think about this reverse. if a 28-year-old african-american man got out of his car and profiled and pursued an unarmed white teenager and shot him in the heart, nobody would say that person shouldn't be arrested. why is it different when it is trayvon martin lying dead on the ground? >> let's move to the idea, this notion, and i want to play a clip here from the law enforcement news conference from yesterday. talking about preparations for post verdict. this is what they said yesterday. you know what, i don't think we have that. >> i am familiar with it. >> there is this idea here in sanford that folks may take to the streets, that the protests may turn violent and maybe not just here in florida but all over the country.

>> i know people are passionate and emotional about this matter because a lot of them think that trayvon could have been their son or their daughter, but you have to remember, craig, we had rallies all over the country and there were rallies where they had thousands of people and in fact reverend sharpton from politics nation had helped coordinate a rally of over 30,000 people here in sanford. in all of those rallies where the new york, d.c., los angeles, and nowhere was there any act of violence, not one, and the only person violent in this whole process was the killer of trayvon martin. >> if that jury comes back, and the verdict is the verdict and the verdict is not guilty, how do you proceed? >> i think people should do as trayvon's family is going to conduct themselves. they have asked everybody that if they can accept the rule of law, and they have really the

most involvement, the most that matters in this whole situation is them, trayvon was their son, and if they can accept the rule of law, we ask that everybody else accept the rule of law. we have a right to assembly in our country. we have a right to peacefully protest, and we have always asked for peaceful justice. >> prosecution do it well? did they handle it well? >> i thought the prosecution brought it altogether. >> really. >> in the closing. >> in the closing. >> i really do. you can't really think that your strategy is every other lawyer's strategy. everybody has different styles. >> sounds okay, like your strategy would have been different, though. >> certainly. every lawyer is different. bernie de la rionda and john guy in the closing summations brought it back to the heart of the matter what the whole case is about, why everybody is watching this case and that is because trayvon was shot in the heart and you got inside the heart of these two individuals that night, one a child who was

running from a stranger he didn't know and one a pursuer who said these a-holes aren't going to get away, their words speak to their heart, and you asked the court what would the verdict be had trayvon martin pursued and shot george zimmerman? >> benjamin crump, thank you for your time. we should note two things here. first of all, it is exceptionally hot. they probably saw us wiping our brows. we should also note that msnbc has invited the defense team to join us but they told us they're not doing any interviews until after the verdict is read. i want to bring in my friend and colleague lisa blum, legal analyst. lisa, always good to see you. first of all, let's play the game we have been playing for about a day now. the longer this jury deliberates, what does that tell you? >> well, i think we can safely say one thing, that is this is

no longer possible that it is going to be a quick decision. however the jury decides this case, if they do reach a verdict, they deliberated for a significant period of time. so whichever side they reach, i think the other side can take some comfort they really took this case seriously. how much longer, when they're going to come back with a verdict, i could tell you it is going to be 4:17 p.m. but obviously nobody knows and we don't know what they talk about behind closed doors other than the fact they asked for the list of evidence which is a good sign. i had interviewed many jurors in high profile cases after the case was over and they always talk about going through the evidence and analyzing it closely. all the studies indicate they rise to the occasion and take their job very seriously. >> lisa, for the prosecution, biggest piece of evidence, for the defense, biggest piece of evidence. key piece of evidence. >> for the prosecution it would have to be the non-emergency call that george zimmerman made, that they heard over and over again in the courtroom where he

uses profanity and a-hole and f-ing punk and in reference to trayvon martin, a complete stranger walking down the street minding his own business and they argue it is evidence of ill will. after the shooting he goes to the police station and calls him a suspect and still referring to him as a criminal and 234 the interview five months later with his attorneys sitting next to him he said it was god's plan. i think all of the recordings put together are the best evidence that the prosecution has. for the defense the photos of george zimmerman's injuries which they held up every chance they had in the courtroom showing them over and over again and george zimmerman certainly appearing as though he has been punched in the face and on the back of his head a couple of lacerations and bumps and cruises and which the defense says shows that he got beat up and that his only alternative was to draw the gun and shoot and kill to save his own life. >> what is the significance of adding manslaughter, adding that particular charge? >> i think it should have been there all along frankly.

manslaughter is really the same legally as second degree murder, just without the intent. it is always hard for a jury to get inside another person's head. one of the hardest things in criminal law because criminal law requires not only that you commit a bad act but what was going on in your mind tote that you did it and that's a tough thing to do. the jurors hey say it was wrong for him to shoot and kill trayvon martin. we don't buy self-defense. we can't go so far as to say he had a depraved mind at the time he did it. that's the requirement for second degree murder. if they can't get to depraved mind but they don't buy self-defense, manslaughter is the appropriate conviction. >> before i let you out of here, i want to ask you the same question i asked your mom during the special. in terms of the evidence, in terms of the evidence that the prosecution had, was the evidence there or did the prosecution not do a fantastic job of putting the evidence together? >> you know, i will give you my honest answer, craig. i think the evidence was there all along for second degree

murder. i have taken a great deal of time not only watching this entire trial but reviewing the primary source materials, the same evidence the jury has looking at the videos over and over again and trying to find what i see in there, filtering out the attorney's interpretation. i think it is there. the evidence of intent that i just referred to, i think self-defense is weak because the positioning of the bodies really doesn't match up with zimmerman's story. if you don't believe that trayvon martin saw the gun and was reaching for the gun, then i think self-defense is eliminated. what you have is an intentional killing. george zimmerman can see he intentionally pulled out his gun and pointed it at trayvon martin and pulled the trigger. this is not an accidental killing. without self-defense i think the evidence is there. i would have liked to have seen more from the prosecution in closing arguments connecting the dots, pulling it altogether, matching up the legal elements with the evidence. they had a different style as benjamin crump says and rightly so, different attorneys have different styles and i recognize these prosecutors are extraordinarily successful in

that jurisdiction and maybe their sense of the jurors in that community is they don't like that forceful closing argument. what they like is giving information to the jurors and the jurors put together themselves behind closed doors, so we'll see what the jury does and we'll see which side is vindicated and i will be especially interested to hear from the jurors afterwards as to what evidence was important to them. >> yeah. that's true. good point. we have been talking about this for weeks now and some of us for more than that. these jurors have just been talking for seven hours 45 minutes. least a thank you so much. always appreciate your insight. >> i will send you fresh hankys, craig. >> i need them. thank you. we have much more live here in sanford as again the jury continues to deliberate. first i want to take you back to new york and richard lui who is covering today's other major headlines >> i will send you hank is as well. 90 degrees outside in sanford,

florida, 70 degrees inside in new york. coming up, the runway reopened at the site of the san francisco plane crash as the death toll rising a week after the crash landing and surviving a sex scandal, why some politicians weather sordid situations and some do not. and -- >> now i am. i am just so thrilled. >> a dream come true, a maryland teen wins 75 grand for his big idea. details on how it could save lives ahead. hey linda! what are you guys doing? having some fiber! with new phillips' fiber good gummies. they're fruity delicious! just two gummies have 4 grams of fiber! to help support regularity! i want some... [ woman ] hop on over! [ marge ] fiber the fun way, from phillips'.

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no woman should be judged by someone else, someone who believes they would have made a different decision. no woman should be judged by

someone else because these decisions are never, ever easy. >> that was texas state senator wendi davis last night pleading with fellow state legislators not to pass a bill that would ban most abortions after 20 weeks. davis was shot down, however, when the senate voted to pass that bill 19-11 after a nine-hour session that concluded in the middle of the night. this year 17 states have passed new measures that impact abortion, just last week ohio's governor signed a bill that requires doctors to determine if there is a fetal heart beat before performing an abortion to assess the state of the pregnancy. many states have regulated clinics providing abortions as well. what does last night's vote in texas mean? hard fought on a national level as well, say about the future for the pro-choice advocates? joining me is state senator sylvia garcia that worked with wendy davis to try to block the bill from passing. senator garcia, thank you for being with us. planned parenthood predicted as a result of this bill passing

all but six of the 42 states abortion facilities may have to close. is that right? >> that is correct. that's one of the real tragedies of this bill, but as you said, we know this was the third time they tried to pass this bill and regretfully for us we were not able to succeed. i think the fight continues. we're in it for the long run. the next step is the courthouse. >> so where will women go? >> well, that's the big question. if this bill is signed by the governor and he may do it as immediately as monday, then the process begins, and we would have the effective day within about 90 days for about three provisions of this bill and one of them would be 2014 for the changes of the surgical centers, so it could be very, very hard on women with long distances, a lot of travel particularly women

west of what we consider san antonio and women on the border areas because the distance would be long and it could really put women's health at risk. >> you know, this morning emily's list which we're both very familiar with, the largest pact for women in politics, they commended you. >> i am very familiar. i served on their board. >> very familiar. this is what they wrote. i will read that for our viewers. the fight is far from over, and the emily's list community now more than 2 million strong, is ready to show right wing politicians the consequences of their actions at the ballot box, end quote. what is your thought? which politicians on a national level and on a local level do you see as being most affected by this outcome? >> well, i agree with emily's list. this is in my judgment an extreme radical right agenda, and this is one of the most extreme abortion bills that we have seen. it put together like four really bad bills into one more horrific bill. there is not even an exception

for incest or rape which even the united states congress and the house version included, so that is how extreme these are, and i think women will remember we have seen through our bus tour of five cities here in texas. we have seen through the thousands and thousands of people that have shown up at rallies and the capitol, hundreds of women sharing their very personal, tragic, heart wrenching stories about the hard decision that has to be made when you make this very critical decision about your pregnancy, and i think women will remember, and they're going to remember at the next rally. they'll remember at the capitol again and they'll remember at the ballot box. >> the note about rape and incest, one of the 20 amendments that fellow democrats you worked with, none of them making it into this bill that is now going to the governor to sign. another part of this is how this may have galvanized a voted group there in texas that may not have forwarded their political muscle as they have in

the past and in the dallas morning news earlier this morning, senator, and they were noting how more than 70,000 women will be affected by this. how may this galvanize a group that may not have put forth their ideas in the past very forthrightly? >> i think we're seeing it particularly at the rallies because it is creating a lot of disheartening, some loss of trust in people that are just feeling like they have been personally assaulted because this is what it is. the age group, about half and half, a lot of young women that never felt threatened before about birth control and access

to pap smears and cancer screenings and a lot of preventive care. we are have to remember in texas 75% of the abortions are provided by other providers, not through planned parenthood and planned parenthood services are probably less than 5% about abortion. it is about a whole bunch of other things that are important to women and their health care. this action denies that access to health care. i think that is why so many women and men that support them know that this is a tragic loss for health care in texas and the next step will not courthouse because the bill has passed and there will be litigation and some of the portions of this bill have already been litigated in other states and we predict that parts, not all of this bill will be held unconstitutional. >> thank you for your time today. >> thank you so much.

>> powerful words from pakistani activist ma laly, the school girl shot and nearly killed nine months ago spent her 16th birthday delivering a powerful message to students of the united nations. take a listen. >> on the 9th of october, 2012, the taliban shot me on the left side of my forehead. they shot my friends, too. they thought that the bullet would silence us. they failed. out of that silence came thousands of voices. the terrorists thought they would stop my ambitions. nothing changed in my life except this. weakness, fear, and hopelessness

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♪ first, it is july 13, 2013. the rumored due date for kate middleton to deliver the next king or queen of england. a british author and royal watcher joins us now with more and you are saying here, you tweeted this, you said i will read the tweet. well placed source informs me the royal baby is definitely not expected this weekend. we're talking about it. >> we are. there is huge excitement. this will be the 43rd monarch and the queen is still figure head to a third of the world, so this is relevant. this baby will secure and

symbolize the future of the royal family for decades to come. >> when is it then? when does the source tell you it will happen? >> we don't know about that. interestingly, the duchess of corn wall's birthday is july 17th. diana's is july 1. it looks like the baby could controversily share a birthday with camilla which would be strange but there we are. >> the story lines from there. >> a lot of fun with that. >> a lot of tweets. when we think about when the baby arrives, what will be on this announcement? >> it will be a prospect la makes, get the words out, on an easel and outside buckingham palace with a 41 gun salute, all very traditional, and the baby will be his or her royal highness, and first names, we don't know yet, a girl or boy obviously and we don't know the name. it will be traditional. >> any guesses? we'll talk about that in a little bit. there is a lot of stuff out

there. >> the book makers are having fun. i will go with victoria for a girl or albert for the boy. did you see the king's speech? >> no, i didn't. >> the lead character was bertie and king george was albert so maybe. >> why victoria. >> very successful monarch. >> not elizabeth. >> already an elizabeth now and two or three a bit boring. >> sperlly more on this. information on the finances behind this entire royal baby, royal family story, and it is striking. >> first of all, they have to provide value for money so they cost the rich taxpayer about 82 cents per person per year. it is not that much. kate middleton arrived in the world family at $1.6 billion boost to the economy and the royal baby looking at about $400 million boost.

it is big business for britain. >> does make a lot of sense. keep the royal family going. it is helping the gdp. >> absolutely. >> thank you so much. fun talking about it. we'll go back when it does happen. royals may turn tradition to news edition. many americans getting the baby name inspiration from pop culture. the most popular names of the year so far are katniss, and for boys "django" and fin after the heart throb. really? you're watching msnbc, the place for politics and now baby names. mmmm, nice car. there's no doubt, that's definitely gonna throw him off. she's seen it too. oh this could be trouble. [ sentra lock noise ] oh man. gotta think fast, herbie. back pedal, back pedal. [ crowd cheering ] oh, he's down in flames and now the ice-cold shoulder. one last play... no, game over! gps take him to the dog house.

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let's go to craig, craig melvin, please. >> thank you so much. should let folks know just got word a few moments ago the judge will be giving the jury an option, an option to deliberate on sunday if they do not reach a verdict today. we're approaching the eighth hour of jury deliberations on the second day. as we await a verdict, take a look now at some of the trials biggest moments. >> please be seated. >> for 22 days it was predictably unpredictable, including the prosecutor's blunt opening statements. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> [ bleep ] punks, these [ bleep ] they always get away. >> the knock-knock joke that fell flat and for which the defense later apologized. >> knock, knock, who's there? george zimmerman. george zimmerman who? all right. good.

you're on the jury. nothing? that's funny. >> the parade of witnesses. >> of course you don't know if he was telling you the truth or not. >> why need to lie about that, sir? >> rachel jeantel, the friend on the phone with him moments before he was shot said he was trying to get away from a man who was following him. >> creepy ass cracker. i heard trayvon saying get off, a little bit as i was calling his name. >> then came neighbor john good, a prosecution witness whose story seemed to bolster zimmerman's defense. >> i could tell the person on the bottom had a lighter skinned color. >> police officer christopher soreno, the lead detective the night of the incident that originally recommended manslaughter charges testified about trying to catch zimmerman in a lie. >> you feel he exaggerated the manner in which he was hit? >> yes, sir. >> state would call sybrina fulton. >> the courtroom was riveted by

the testimony of grieving parent sybrina fulton and tracy martin who talked about losing their 17-year-old son. >> my youngest son is trayvon benjamin martin. >> our world has just been turned upside down. >> and late in the trial john guy used a mannequin to demonstrate the state's theory of the case. >> were you aware the defendant described to his best friend that when he slid down the defendant slid down, that trayvon martin was up around his arm pits? were you aware of that? >> no, i had not heard that, no, sir. >> where would the gun be now? >> now the gun would be behind your left leg. >> okay. >> defense attorney mark o'mara used the same mannequin to give jurors an alternate view. >> could it happen this way? >> yes. >> a key question for the jurors, who was screaming on that 911 call moments before the

fatal shot? witnesses on both sides said they could identify the voice. >> my son george. >> i felt that inside of my heart that is george. >> my son george. >> it was georgy. >> trayvon benjamin martin. >> my brother. >> my son. >> who threw the first punch, how serious were the injuries? >> even if you don't do enough to injure the brain significantly, you will have a stunning effect. >> he said he felt light-headed, had a headache. >> he did complain of trauma to his head meaning he had the lacerations. >> i apologize. other than that. >> the story that he told me of his head being struck against the ground. >> how would you characterize or classify the severity of the contusions or abrasions to his face? >> very small. >> and was martin punching or trying to get away when zimmerman fired the gun? >> we're confident that at the

end of this trial you will know in your head, in your heart, in your stomach that george zimmerman did not shoot trayvon martin because he had to. he shot him for the worst of all reasons, because he wanted to. >> george zimmerman is not guilty of murder. he shot trayvon martin in self-defense after being viciously attacked. >> in his closing arguments mark o'mara called for a moment of silence, first for a minute and then two and then more. to demonstrate how much time the defense says martin had to run and get home after he saw zimmerman. >> that's how long trayvon martin had to run, about four minutes. when he said he was running, that's how long. >> then hauled out a chunk of concrete to show how martin used the sidewalk as a weapon.

>> that's cement. that is the sidewalk. that is not an unarmed teenager with nothing but skittles trying to get home. >> prosecutor john guy attacked zimmerman's account and the four minutes. >> four minutes is not the amount of time that trayvon martin had to run home. four minutes is the amount of time that trayvon martin had left on this earth. >> he closed with the question to the jury. what if the roles were reversed? >> if it was trayvon martin who had shot and killed george zimmerman, what would your verdict be? that's how you know it is not about race. >> still ahead, we will take a

closer look at race relations here in sanford as the city and the entire country for that matter awaits the jury's decision. for now let's send it back to richard lou by today's other top stories in new york city. >> correct. thanks so much. a new road map to redemption. scandalized politicians trying to get back into office. why some skate by and others remembered as punch lines coming up and a teen adventure makes an incredible discovery that could revolutionize the way we detect cancer, even other diseases, too, how did he do it and what's next and will join us live with today's big idea. [ slap! ] [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight back fast with tums. calcium-rich tums starts working so fast you'll forget you had heartburn. ♪ tum tum tum tum tums

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right now, get whole-home installation for just 37 bucks. what are you guys doing? having some fiber! with new phillips' fiber good gummies. they're fruity delicious! just two gummies have 4 grams of fiber! to help support regularity! i want some... [ woman ] hop on over! [ marge ] fiber the fun way, from phillips'. [ male announcer ] fight pepperoni heartburn and pepperoni breath fast with tums freshers. concentrated relief that goes to work in seconds and freshens breath. tums freshers. ♪ tum...tum...tum...tum... tums! ♪ fast heartburn relief and minty fresh breath. day two of deliberations in the george zimmerman murder trial. we'll go live back to craig melvin in just a few minutes. a simple diagnostic tool with potentially life saving abilities. it is today's big idea. he won top prize at the intel science fair snagging the $75,000 award for inventing a

sensor that can accurately detect pancreatic cancer in a routine blood test. he joins us live right now. good to see you. congratulations on your win. we'll get more to your reaction when you heard that you did win. if you can, describe to us this device that you have created that you got that win for. >> thanks so much for having me on the show. essentially what i developed is this like a diabetic test strip. it requires like a drop of blood and will determine exactly how much of this one protein is in your blood stream and whether or not you have this cancer, and it works for pancreatic, ovarian and lung cancer and can be broadly extended to other diseases. it costs three cents and takes five minutes to run and it makes it 168 times faster, over 26,000 times less expensive and over 400 times more sensitive than

the current methods of diagnosis. >> not bad, i got to say. really amazing stuff there. just when we talk about pancreatic cancer, some 40,000 people die each year and if you can get them diagnosed earlier, that's so, so key. how did you end up focusing on this disease and how did you come up with the idea once you knew you were going to go after it? >> yeah. i really got interested in pancreatic cancer because a close family friend passed from the disease when i was 13 years old and what essentially happened is i realized that 85% of all pancreatic cancers are diagnosed late. when someone has less than 2% chance of survival and also the current detection method is $800 technique that misses 30% of all pancreatic cancers and rarely ordered and hasn't been updated in six decades. i was thinking, hey, there has to be a better way, and that's where i started. >> it took you how long? >> it actually took me seven months, and i worked day and night in that lab.

every day after high school i would go to johns hopkins university and work in the lab from 2:30 in the afternoon until sometimes 2:30 in the morning and then get up at 5:00 the next morning. >> i heard you love to eat hard boiled eggs and 2006, is that right. >> yeah. i pretty much had this diet of hard boiled eggs, pizza and twix? the lab. >> if that's the trifecta i will start eating that every single day myself. you say your idea to 200 scientists around the country. only one responded. talk about how that all happened. >> yeah. once i had this idea, i had it in my high school biology class, and then what i found is that i actually had to do a lab. my mom permitted me and my brother to do crazy experiments like chlorine gas explosives in our basement and e. coli on the countertop and cancer research was a stretch so i realized i would need a lab and i contacted

200 professors that had anything to do with pan kre cat i can cancer at johns hopkins and i sent them a 32-page document and i got 199 rejections out of 200. i finally got an acceptance and i went in for the big interview and after being grilled for more than an hour by 20 ph.d. students and the professor i finally got it. >> what are you working on next? what are you aiming your flower power on? >> currently what i am working on is something called the try quarter x prize that essentially is a $10 million prize to develop something the size of a smartphone that you can pass over your skin and diagnosis any disease instantly. i am super excited and currently working with all high school students against 300 teams of all adults and the award is in 2015. >> i am hoping after you are done with that you can go for renewable energy or something like that. you have so much to him on your

hands. real pleasure to meet you. 16-year-old jack andraka, this guy is smart. i appreciate your time. we'll be right back. >> thanks so much. i spent 23 years as a deputy united states marshal and i've been pretty well banged up but the worst pain i've experienced was when i had shingles. when i went to the clinic, the nurse told me that it was a result of having had chickenpox. i wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

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what i did was not only wrong but was a consequence of a failure of judgment and self indulgence which is absolutely inexplicable and unjustifiable, improper. >> that was former new york governor elliott spitzer on morning joe this week discussing his foray into politics despite the sex scandal that cost him the governor's office. he is now running for comptroller of new york city while another former congressman anthony weiner runs for mayor. is it even that hard to weather a political sex scandal anymore one might ask? i am joined by a special correspondent for the root and david freelander, media and editor at "newsweek" with and the daily beast. good saturday to both of you. david, i will start with you.

you wrote a piece in april around mark sanford and that debacle and you had the rules of what to do when involved in a sex scandal and rule number one, you say don't be from new york. do you still stand by that? we're just mentioning two individuals. running for politics, we're talking about new york. >> i was wrong. that article is out of date at this point. seems as if the answer to your question, anybody can withstand a sex scandal at this point. >> three months and things changed. >> things totally changed. i never thought anthony weiner would run or spitzer would run or mark sanford, all running and all shots to win. i thought it was over for them and as i mentioned in the piece the pressure would be so embarrassing and the shame so great but i guess if you lack shame you can do anything. >> perhaps we're for getsful here in new york city more than other places in the country. kelly, you also wrote on this issue, and i will read a part of

the article that you had put out and contrast here white and black and you write black republican herman cain had his presidential train derailed by a sex scandal despite the fact that fellow candidate newt gingrich on wife number three remained a serious contender. one small detail, gingrich is white. talk about that. >> i was going to say that i disagree a little bit with what david said. we don't know he is proven wrong yet. i think we'll know better once the election is over and see who wins. the sebd part of that is i don't believe that anyone can have a comeback. i think certain guys, particularly straight white males get a comeback whether it is sanford, gingrich, whoever, and there is a huge double standard in how women candidates are covered and i gay candidates and minority candidates and i give a number of examples in the piece. herman cain is certainty not the only one. would hillary clinton have been able to have the comeback that bill clinton enjoys because monica lewinski sure hasn't.

she is unemployed and working with her mother. all the men go onto be re-elected or have wonderful comebacks and certainly there are standards in this country, and i think still pretty good to be a white, straight guy. >> is it only with herman cain you have seen this. >> no. you know, i went through and gave examples of because it is just not about race. i think whether you are a gay candidate, transgendered candidate, female or racial minority candidate are you consistently held to a different standard and the point that i close asking is would president obama be able to have the life that bill clinton now has had he gotten caught in the office with an intern and the reality is black males, the ultimate stereotype is the over sexed black male. that's birth of a nation, a lot of this glinching that happened was based on the idea they're over sexed and scary and intimidating and we have to worry about white women. i ask you if barack obama were caught with monica lewinski who is white, would he be enjoying

the life that bill clinton enjoys and i don't think anyone can say yes. >> david, what's your thought here? we have other doors that could be open here. herman cain could be one. will he come back? john edwards, also seeing a resurgence in the political realm? >> i think it is not impossible. i think one thing we're learning is time needs to pass and i think we have had people resign and some kwaulg for them not to resign and wait it out. you do need to leave the stage for a little while and let the new cycle or several news cycles or years pass and maybe you can start to claw your way back. i think we can see it once again. >> i think the most important thing is contrite and john edwards doesn't. it is a small detail in the comeback stories. again, the thing about the double standard, i think about harold ford who is on here all the time and the devastating ad that rnc did with the white lady saying, harold, call me and certainly not a sex scandal and he wasn't married but i would really like for our country to get to a place where we don't apply the double standards and

where kristin davis running for comptroller and certainly a former business woman and the reason she is not a viable, she says is all the time in the debate, but the reason we laugh when we say her name on air is not a viable candidate is because they did jail time. what for? running the brothel that elliott spitzer was alleged to have frequented. why is she not a viable candidate but he is? again, it speaks to i think where our country is. >> with spitzer and weiner we shall see what happens in terms of data points. thank you both very much. kelly, david, appreciate that. up next, we'll head back to craig melvin live in sanford as we await a verdict in the george zimmerman murder trial. ake thins more secure. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions

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we're live with every angle of this case covered. also in the news -- >> i did not seek to enrich myself. i did not seek to sell u.s. secrets. i did not partner with any foreign government to guarantee my safety. >> snowden speaks, the fugitive intelligence officer wants asylum in russia. this as president obama calls the russian president demanding they release the american. and the texas abortion battle, an emotional fight could not reap republicans from passing one of the toughest antiabortion laws. now how opponents plan to fight on. we start with the trial of george zimmerman. jurors are now well into their eighth hour of deliberations, the six-woman jury given that case after lawyer from both sides painted startling different pictures of what happened the rainy february night when trayvon martin was shot. >> the defendant knew that

didn't happen. >> that is the sidewalk. that is not an unarmed teenager with nothing but skittles trying to get home. that was somebody who used the availability of dangerous items from his fist to the concrete to cause great bodily injury. against george zimmerman. >> was that child not in fear when he was running from that defendant? isn't that every child's worst nightmare to be followed on the way home in the dark by a stranger? isn't that every child's worst fear?

that was trayvon martin's last emotion. >> want to bring in the contributing writer for new yorker.com, written extensively about the case. also joining me here in sanford, ron mott, covering this extensively as well for nbc news. let me start in new york, this column you wrote yesterday, we have been pouring over it here, thoroughly enjoyed t you wrote essentially that without a racial element this trial would not have happened. i want to play something for you that i am sure you heard several times. this is what john guy said during his rebuttal yesterday. take a listen. >> this case is not about race. it is about right and wrong. it is that simple. let me suggest to you how you know that for sure.

ask yourself all things being equal, if the roles were reversed, and it was 28-year-old george zimmerman walking home in the rain with a hoodie onto protect himself from the rain, walking through that neighborhood, and a 17-year-old driving around in a car who called the police, who had hate in their heart, hate in their mouth, hate in their actions, and if it was trayvon martin who had shot and killed george zimmerman, what would your verdict be? that's how you know it is not about race. >> besides race, what else was this case about? >> well, i can say quickly it is

not either/or. it is not about race, it is not right and wrong. this is about the way that race can influence the way that we understand right and wrong. in addition to this, this is also about our gun laws, the fact that mr. zimmerman was able to be armed that night and this proactive idea of self-defense where the florida legislature and others like them pass laws about self-defense seem to be taking confusing law with football as the best defense is a good offense, and so all of these things combined, what kind of makes the active ingredient in this toxic brew is racial. >> i want to come to you now. let's just say you have been covering this thing almost from the beginning. let's just say that there was not that 44-day period between when trayvon martin was shot and killed and when george zimmerman was arrested. let's just say hypothetically

zimmerman was arrested the very next day. how would this have played out differently, do you think? >> i don't think we're here. i think this is a local story. it had time to percolate and percolate and percolate and three or four weeks later sort of exploded on a national stage and sanford's history became part of the narrative with jackie robinson in the '40s, unkind to an american hero and the narrative took off and it became this toer and there are unfortunately a lot of murders in this country and a lot of them don't get covered, even the ones no one will ever know, maybe a couple mentions in the newspaper and the next day gone. never a trial. in this case it would have remained a local story had an arrest been made right away and not advocating for arrest, just saying i think the narrative never would have developed the way it has. >> all eyes on the courthouse behind this as we rate for the jury to render a verdict. what do we know about the six women who are considering this case right now?

>> it is a range of backgrounds, and i think both sides, the prosecution and the defense said that that's the best case scenario for any defendant. there are younger women on the jury and older women on the jury and unemployed, homemakers, mother of eight, one of them. there is a retiree on this jury. they bring a lot of different experiences to the panel and a lot of stuff they're digging through. they went through 56 witnesses, 14 days of testimony they listened to. took a lot of notes. sounds like they're going through the notes and taking this seriously as they should because a man's freedom is on the line. >> when we talk about this trial five, ten years from now, 20, 25 years from now, as we undoubtedly will, what will the conversations be like? what will we be talking about? >> i think we'll be talking about this trial. we'll see a context that we haven't necessarily seen as much now. when this shooting happened, you

know, in february of last year, and then we had aurora and then newtown and then we had wisconsin and the temple and i think people will understand this in the context of united states having to grapple with what exactly we think in terms, what exactly our policies will be about firearms, what exactly we think will make us safer. theses questions that are kind of enduring and much bigger than what's going on in sanford, much bigger than whatever ultimately happens with george zimmerman, i think in that context we'll understand trayvon martin is part of that. >> ron mott here with me in sanford, florida, and the new yorker there, and thanks to both of you. >> thanks, craig. >> coming up, we're going to take a closer look at race relations in sanford right here in the city as this city and the entire country awaits the jury's verdict. first i want to send it back to richard lui in new york with today's other top stories.

>> hey, there, craig, we'll pick it up from here. russia says it has not received a formal employ for asylum from edward snowden. snowden remains stranded in moscow's airport. he met there yesterday with human rights groups and snowden was the topic of a phone conversation between president obama and russian president vladimir putin. we have two reports beginning with jim la sieda in moscow. >> richard, after the media bed lamb around the appearance yesterday and the vows from the airport, not that we got a chance to see him in the flesh, today has been pretty quiet by comparison. i guess you would say if this were a poker game, what snowden did in his meeting yesterday with human rights activists was to call putin's bluff. he signaled that he, snowden, would remain silent and not release any more damaging intelligence if russia granted him just temporary asylum while he seeks guarantees of safe passage to latin america which

apparently is where he wants to end up. you recall that putin made that same offer earlier this month but snowden at the time rejected it because of that condition of silence. now he seems to be forcing putin's hand. does putin give him asylum and further damage relations with the u.s.? or does putin back off? does he flip-flop and then look weak and deceitful? he is in a difficult position now. meanwhile, looks today like the kremlin is still trying to play like snowden is not there and keep a distance from this hot potato and they're saying that russia has not even been in touch with snowden and an immigration official saying today that so far no snowden request for russian asylum has been received. richard, this saga looks like it may take weeks if not months to resolve. back to you. >> thank you so much for that. now for the view from the white house, let's bring in kristin

welker. as we mentioned earlier, what do we know about that conversation between president obama and president putin? >> richard, the white house never gives too many details about those conversations. what we do know is president obama and president putin discussed a wide range of issues including snowden and they both noted the importance of the united states relationship with russia. publicly we know that the white house has used very strong language in terms of warning russia that the u.s. russian relationship could be complicated and damaged if they don't return snowden to the united states. on friday white house press secretary jay carney basically slammed russia for what he called a propaganda platform, essentially referring to the fact that snowden had that impromptu news conference yesterday at the moscow airport and say it ran count canner to russia's claims it was remaining neutral. as jim pointed out, russia is in a very difficult situation right now, snowden is there.

they have to figure out what to do with him and my reporting also backs up what he said which is that this could take several weeks before russia comes to a determination about whether or not to grant snowden's asylum request. >> kristen welker with the latest. thank you. >> thanks. marching for morsi, thousands of egyptians rallying for the ousted president. this as the u.s. pushes for his release. deep division, sanford, florida, has been home to racial tensions going back more than 100 years. why some say the zimmerman trial is an opportunity for the community to move forward. savi. this 5-piece dining set on clearance, save over $49! how bout all these bikes on rollback? like this mongoose adult bike, you save over $20! get more summer for your money at walmart's super summer savings event. we've been bringing people together. today, we'd like people to come together on something that concerns all of us. obesity. and as the nation's leading beverage company, we can play an important role.

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to bring in former prosecutor paul henderson and criminal defense attorney seema eyre. paul, let me start with you. we know on the first day, the jury, elect a foreman. we know this particular jury yesterday asked judge nelson for an inventory of the evidence. what do we think this jury has done at this point on the second day of deliberations? >> we know where they started because we asked for our list and that inventory, so i am presuming that today they went through that list and started framing up their prospectives. i have had unique experiences of sitting on a jury while being a prosecutor and i was fascinated to hear and see that process of people around the room trying to figure out where they are and their thought process in terms of coming to a determination and so right now i think almost every jury does it this way where they start off by saying let's take a loose poll so tee where are you and what do you

think about the case and they start hashing it out and fleshing it out and going through the jury instructions to see can they all agree on something? >> seema, how does the fact this is a six-person jury, how does that change the dynamic from what you might see in a traditional 12-person jury. >> in a traditional jury i would have expected more of the possibility for a mistrial because they couldn't come to a unanimous verdict just because of the way the evidence has played out in this case. now, here with only six people it is more likely that we could get a unanimous verdict either way. >> paul, i want to spend time talking about the defense closing argument from yesterday and the rebuttal as well. let's take a listen. >> assumptions presume lack of evidence. if you have to presume something, you don't know it. if you don't know it, it hasn't

been proven. if it hasn't been proven as the instruction tells you, it is just not there. you can't consider it. you can't fill in the gaps. you can't connect the dots for the state attorney's office in this case. you're not allowed to. >> paul, how effective is that? how effective is it to keep reminding a jury not to make assumptions? >> i think it was very effective in the case like this where the jury doesn't have the entire story. there are gaps in the story. there are inconsistencies in the story. i think it is a very smart defense strategy to point out to the jury don't fill in those gaps. don't make up what you think might have happened or what could have happened because that obviously leads them to evaluating the cases a little more stringently and puts them in a position where they're more likely to come up with a perspective of reasonable doubt or not guilt think this case so i thought it was very effective to point them in that directions

and make clear what his argument is about not trying to add their own common sense to what they think could have happened on that evening. >> seema, here is part of prosecutor john guy's closing. take a listen. >> this isn't a complicated case. it is a common sense case. it is not a case about self-defense. it is a case about self denial. george zimmerman's. >> what do we make of that? what do we think about the tactic of essentially telling george to rely on the common sense? that was a familiar refrain, not just there with john guy but also earlier with the initial close from bernie de la rionda. >> we already know from john guy about the jump of this case is he is very passionate and he is almost poetic in his presentation. at this point which was crucial

for rebuttal is that he got us to key phrases, catch phrases if you will, which will keep the jury reminded of what the prosecution's position is, and lets just go back to bernie de la rionda who did the initial summation, and in that summation he did not have the catch phrases. he wasn't thematic. he didn't have the theory of the case, and now we see that mr. guy did. things that will resonate with the jury that they can take back to the deliberation room. and get the last word. >> seema, do you think this trial would have been markedly different if we had seen more john guy and less bernie de la rionda. >> that is a great question, craig, because i think people ask us, meaning myself and paul henderson this all the time, is it the lawyers? does the lawyering matter? i think in my 20 years of experience truly it does not. i think the evidence is what

outweighs the lawyering in this case. >> i have to say, i have to say, i agree but only up to a point. >> he never fully agrees with me, craig, ever. >> i know. i think she is brilliant and insightful, but i have a different perspective on things because i do think that lawyers bring their own personality to the forum and to a jury and those things do make a jury. those things do make a difference. i know someone like me as a prosecutor probably would have done the case a little differently and i would have introduced race differently and talked about some of those issues. >> how would you have introduced it differently, paul? >> i would have made sure i didn't skirt away from the issues of race because i felt like race is such an important issue here and they did a really good job introducing the evidence and introducing the facts but i would have liked to have heard a little more race discussion in these issues, particularly from the prosecution because, remember,

the prosecution is the voice of the victim. the prosecution is the voice of the family. in this case they're the voice for the community as well that feels marginalized because of race in this instance and i would like to have heard more of that and i know in all of my cases which race is an issue, and sometimes it is in criminal cases, i am very self righteous and am not afraid to talk about those things regardless of whether race is an issue with the defendant or the victim or the witnesses as in this case which they all of those issues affected all of the witnesses in this case. >> what paul is actually saying, then, is that he is presenting evidence in a different way which could in fact be more compelling and affect the verdict, so it is not just his style, it is his substance, which i definitely appreciate and i absolutely agree that that could make the difference in this verdict. >> i would have liked to see

them -- >> any time we put two lawyers on television, we always have to allow. ten seconds. ten seconds, paul. >> i was going to say this is one of the things i was saying. even with the self-defense i wanted to hear more information about that. i wanted the prosecution to get up there and fight for trayvon in a way where they talked about what about his rights for self-defense? he is walking home by himself and someone, acosts him, someone tracks him, an armed man that is not a police officer that he does not know that has no apparent authority confronts him. what about his rights to self-defense and that may be just as credibly a way this incident took place as any other, and i wanted to hear that or at least drop that to the jury to allow them to consider it. >> we're going to have to leave it there. paul, sooem a big thanks to both of you. much more from sanford right after this. if you've got it, you know how hard it can be to breathe

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i am craig melvin live in sanford, florida, where we continue to wait on a verdict in the george zimmerman murder trial. the rain has started here in sanford, florida. this is actually has become somewhat common place this time of year and it is not stopping folks from continuing to gather outside the courthouse. we have seen probably about 30 or 40 demonstrators, a lot more than we have seen over the course of the trial, but still four more tv cameras than protesters. lots more from here in sanford. want to sent it back to new york. richard lui standing by with the other top stories. >> thank you very much. topping today's political headlines, a brutal week for immigration reform as the house republicans tore through the bill senate democrats passed. president obama focuses the weekly address on hopes for a bipartisan solution, even invoking his republican predecessor. >> we have been debating this issue for more than a decade.

ever since president bush first proposed the broad outlines of immigration reform. i think he gave a very good speech this past week expressing his hope that a bipartisan comprehensive bill can become law. if democrats and republicans, including president bush and i, can agree on something, that's a pretty good place to start. >> montana's popular former democratic governor brian swooitser says he will not run for the state's open u.s. senate seat in 2014, a big relief for republicans. he tells the associated press he is not interested in relocating from the state he loves. i don't want to leave montana, he says, this is my home, not washington, d.c. wropt a job where i have to wear a suit and my dog isn't welcome. now that homeland security secretary janet napolitano announced her resignation this fall the hunt is on for who will replace here. the fema administrator craig fugate and new york police commissioner kelly rumored to be on the short list and jay carney is mum on the matter.

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good saturday to you. welcome back to msnbc. i am craig melvin live in sanford, florida, where the jury is in day two of deliberations in the george zimmerman murder trial as we await their decision, there are some concerns over potential unrest following the verdict. just yesterday the sanford police chief se sill smith urged residents to remain calm despite the verdict. >> as we await this verdict, would like to remind everyone that the city of sanford has been a peaceful location since

that time 17 months ago and it remains a peaceful location. >> last week the chief also visited the historic black neighborhood of sanford called gol gol gol goldsboro. brenda hartsfield is a resident, a lifetime resident, and also a store owner in goldsboro. i will talk to you brenda in a moment. tremaine, let me start with you. fantastic piece on the website now if folks want to read t the new police chief recently there to build trust among the residents. why do you think chief lee felt that he needed to do that? >> i think this is a community with such a long history of oppression and suppression and depression and feelings of mistrust and distrust with the police department and to bridge those gaps and begin to heal

those wounds that kind of exploded, he feels it is important to actually communicate with the people of golds borrow and actually walk down the street and hear their concerns. for so long the people have felt that their issues weren't being addressed, they weren't being heard and their voices were essentially silenced. >> brenda, let's talk a little about golds bore owe. first of all, geographically, where is it from where we are now? >> probably about six miles down the road north right off 1792. >> six miles, but in a lot of ways, the distance between sanford and goldsboro far greater. >> correct. sanford is a quiet place as the chief says pretty much but also disparity as well as as far as the police. the police department don't have

no respect for the residents at all. that's really the concern. we were they proud that chief smith came down and poke with us. we have never out of the whole history has the chief of police ever come down and poke to the residents >> just ignored or mistreated? >> both. i know. both. >> both. >> at least the residents feel as if it is both. >> this idea before i go back to tremaine, the idea we heard from the chief yesterday and other local law enforcement agencies as well, this idea that there may be civil unrest in sanford around sanford, when a verdict comes down, what do you say to that? is that a legitimate concern? >> i don't think so, no, i think it depends on the verdict, you know, of course, but people will be upset, but i think they're mostly used the media more than anything else, twitter and facebook and speak their mind, but i personally don't think it will be a big uproar as far as the citizens because we're used

to the verdicts not going our way. i don't think it would be a big uproar. >> one of the things i found most interesting about your article was the history of racial strife and peskily as it relates to jackie robinson. >> before signing with the dodgers he went down for spring training and during an exhibition game the chief of police intervened in a second inning and forced him out of the game and jackie robinson's daughter later said they are family had been run out of town under threats of violence, and so this long history is kind of trickled down through the generations and you can kind of feel the tension when you talk to the older folks in the community and even some of the younger folks talking about in the 1960s rather than integrate the lone public pool they cemented over it rather than allow black children to swim in it. every day there seems to be

daily indignities. thises what the people say. ever whichever way the verdict goes, perhaps if is isn't acquittal, that tension, i do believe, will bubble over. i don't want to say it will be violent but the daily interaction seems to be bad attitudes on both sides in the community and the police officers. i witnessed one situation in front of ms. hartsfield's store, the moments the police hospitalized out and the looks they were giving the people, it is just a bad situation. >> that situation has gotten better over the years or bad situation that has gotten worse over the years. >> pretty much the same. >> talking to everyone i talk to, they say that there have been strides, and then once the trayvon martin situation happened and there wasn't an immediate arrest, that is when the kind of things came to a head because think about this. if there had been an arrest we wouldn't be here talking about this today. >> exactly. as this trial has gone on and as we heard from witness after

witness, the closings, the openings, what are people specifically, what are they saying about the trial to you? >> they think. >> don't hold back. >> i know. right. some days they're with this state and some days they're not, but pretty much everybody is together saying they think it will be manslaughter. they're not saying -- they're looking for manslaughter. they know it is not going to be second degree murder. >> how about you? >> i just want justice done. i just really want justice done. regardless of which way it goes, i just feel like in my instance because i am african-american, we never really get a fair trial. we don't feel like we get a fair trial. we're not used to a fair trial. that's all i really want in the whole system. >> what did you learn while you were in goldsboro? >> i learned that in so many

ways change is slow acoming. when you talk about the deep south and central florida in particular, such a long history of racial strife, we have so much further to go, and every few years we seem to be stepping closer and then takes only one incident to change that. unfortunately so, sometimes, because in this case what could have been a manslaughter case in the day after the killing came to represent so much more and so much hangs in the balance, and so we just have so much further to go and we'll see how things play out and how the cards fall in this case. >> good to see you. thanks so much. and brenda hartsfield, a resident of goldsboro, thank you for being here. you can read the article on msnbc.com. i want to get right to the brain trust right now. esther is in the studio, host of wake up all on wbie radio and a

political reporter for the "los angeles times" and amy holmes, anchor at the the blaze. good to see you. thank you follow cobb in on saturday. >> thank you for having us. >> esther, let me start with you. i want to pick up where tr e main left off and also where brenda left off to a certain extent. is this a trial that is about race or is this a trial that is about race and lots of other things? >> it is absolutely a trial about race. period. i think the manner in which the discussion has been had, the carefulness of people to not say that it is about race, the way in which mr. guy did his rebuttal, when he said the sentence this is not about race, it is because he knew that it was. the only way to introduce it is to articulate the fact this is not about that. that speaks to the way in which race is discussed, explored,

approached, denied, negated in our society, and i think so much of the trial in what has not been said as much as what has been said reveals the way in which race is approached in this country, part of the way race is managed is through denial and negation, so let me -- so the judge says you can't say that he was racially profiled and yet the witness, the last witness the defense brings talks about being burglarized, these young black men, and the manner in which, the history of how black men have been treated in this country when it comes to attack and when it ko mz to profile is brought into the courtroom in that moment, and to negate that is to act as though race is thousand not present just because the word is not said, does not mean it is not there. >> amy, the prosecution actually went out of their way, out of his way at the end of the rebuttal to remind jurors not to

consider race. i want to play this clip and talk to you about it on the other side. here it is. >> this case is not about race. it is about right and wrong. it is that simple. >> amy holmes, is it that simple? >> i don't think it is at all. i agree of course it is about race. george zimmerman racially profiled trayvon martin. trayvon martin was walking home. he was a black kid in a neighborhood and george zimmerman decided because of those facts that he must be a mal malefactor, someone on his way to rob a house. george zimmerman was told stay away. he called 911. george zimmerman kept following this young man, and this young man had what i thought was a perfectly reasonable reaction to being stalked down a neighborhood street late at night to say what is going on here? it is interesting to me that the prosecution, the person trying to you -- the state trying to

put george zimmerman in jail is instructing the jury not to make it about race when in fact i think that's the salient point, a young man got shot, is dead, was killed, because george zimmerman decided that he was as i say that he was some sort of villain, and that to me is the strongest point of all of this, of why george zimmerman acted in a way that was thoroughly irresponsible and i believe something that should land him in jail. >> you are left coast, in los angeles to see outbreaks of violence back in the 90s following a racially charged trial we all remember where white police officers were acquitted in the beating of an african-american. when we take a quick break here and come back, i want to talk to you about how this case is being perceived there. we'll get your answer after the break. ♪ ♪ honey, is he too into this car thing?

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zimmerman trial continue their deliberations at this hour. they have been deliberating for well over nine hours now. yesterday and today. i want to go back to the brain trust. before we took a commercial break i was asking about concern about violence especially where you are in los angeles. give me your take on that. what are folks out there saying about this trial? >> clearly because we're 20 years after the rodney king riots people are certainly watching this trial very closely. there are some really huge differences between the two cases. in the rodney king case you had a very militaristic police department that led up to the beatings. you literally had cops going into neighborhoods using a battering ram on houses that were suspected of having drugs in them. it is just a very different situation in terms of years of buildups of tension. you all clearly have been exploring those in sanford, but

it is a different situation in that sense, and in los angeles what has happened since then is there has been an enormous push toward community-based policing and you have a real alliance now between leaders of the police department and the leaders of the black community here, and it is interesting also to think about the fact that there has been some change in sanford over the last year or so with the police stepping down, et cetera, and that did not happen after the rodney king incident. the changes really only happened off the riots, and you do have folks in the community in florida who feel like they really have made a difference in terms of forcing this case to trial, getting the nation to pay attention to it, and so that may sort of lower the temperature to a different level than it was out here 20 years ago. >> final thoughts on the george

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as the jury in the george zimmerman murder trial continues its deliberations, i want to bring the brain trust back. i want to get some final thoughts on not just the trial but what we can take from the trial. and amy, let me start with you. what do you think that we as a society, we as americans can take away from all of this. >> well, unfortunately, i don't take very much positive from any of this, that if you're a young black man walking home late at night, are you supposed to expect that someone will stalk and you kill you? it is just unspeakable. i do want to talk about the positive side of this which is perhaps we can take down the temperature a bit. that whatever is the trial verdict, we know from the rodney king riots, that the greatest

victims of rioting are actually members of the african-american community and the local community. like the woman you had on before, brenda. to try to keep our heads, keep our calm no matter what that outcome is. and i would say my third point is this this whole story was so politicized from the very beginning. it was very hard to get to the truth at the end day, george zimmerman made a series of choices. he call 911 and they will him to stay away. he kept stalking this young man. this young man was not in the commission of burglaring a home. he was walking down the street. he turned around to confront his stalker and he ended up dead and i think someone needs to take responsibility for that. >> let me come to you. quick answers here. what if anything can we take away from this in. >> i think in some ways, this had started a really interesting national conversation about race and the way young black men are

treated. it preassumed that conversation. also a discussion about community based policing and whether the police should be more involved in some of these communities. either to make a person like zimmerman feel safer or to recognize what the tensions are and make sure that they don't happen going forward. that has worked well here in l.a. and obviously, other cities around the country are not paying enough attention to those kinds of tensions and dealing with them. >> esther, i'm curious. how do you think this is going to play out in terms of a verdict as well? >> the truth is we don't know. what i will say is this. trayvon martin is a 17-year-old boy. he is a son, a teenager, a friend, a brother, he is dead. the idea of justice in the united states of america is that the rule of law says that you do not get to kill an unarmed child and not face the consequences of those actions.

unless that person is black. the long history and legacy of profiling black men, we are living in the legacy of the kind of untreated trauma that enables individuals and institutions to take out black men and call it self-defense. trayvon martin was defending himself. it was his right. in fact, it was the law. whether or not the verdict finds zimmerman guilty, the national conversation about the treatment of black men when it comes to them moving through their neighborhoods, their streets, their communities is one that is undecided but they are still being condemned for that which they have the right to do every single day. what does a mother tell her son? what does a mother tell her son about going to the corner store to do what a teenager does every single day of the week? what does a mother tell her child? so the truth is, justice is a fluid notion that has too long evaded young black men. what happens with the verdict, we have to wait and see.

>> we'll leave it there. a big thanks to you. maeve reston, thanks to you. folks, we will be here until a verdict is reached. live in sanford. i'll be back tomorrow, 3:00 eastern. right now though, "disrupt with karen finney." i'm phil mickelson, pro golfer. when i was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis, my rheumatologist prescribed enbrel for my pain and stiffness, and to help stop joint damage. [ male announcer ] enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders, and allergic reactions have occurred. before starting enbrel, your doctor should test you for tuberculosis and discuss whether you've been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. you should not start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. tell your doctor if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have symptoms such as persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness.

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and the honest company was my dream. [ male announcer ] legalzoom has helped a million businesses successfully get started, including jessica's. launch your dream at legalzoom today. call us. we're here to help. thanks for disrupting your afternoon. we have a lot of politics to cover but at this hour we'll begin in sanford, florida. where the fate of george zimmerman is in the hands of six jurors who are more than nine hours into deliberations. >> knock, knock, who's there? george zimmerman. george zimmerman who? all right, good. you're on the jury. nothing? that's funny. >> i kind of heard trayvon saying, get off. get off. >> listen to when the screaming stops. at the instant of the gunshot. >> who do you recognize that to be? >> ton