instruction. i thought why are we talking about negligence? intentional killing is manslaughter except excusable homicide or just final homicide. justifiable homicide is self-defense. we know that's a big part of the case. excusable homicide is essentially an accident. a third of this page is about excusable homicide and the word negligence is in there. this has not been defined to the jury. i think it is confusing and so perhaps that's going to -- what is negligence exactly? when i read it, i crossed out the excusable homicide part because i didn't think it was relevant. the judge thinks it's relevant because she's given this instruction to the jury. >> the jury isn't going to just ignore part of the instruction. >> they'll struggle over it and they'll ask for clarifications but sometimes they get annoyed

because what happens is the judge won't give the standard instruction, they'll bring them all in and just reread the same instruction which already gotten, which just irritates them and they get frustrated and it ends up being a problem and you get reversed on appeal. they may come back and say what is the definition of intent? what is the definition of negligence? >> because it is the top of the hour, it's just one minute after 7:00, i want to sort of set the stage for where we've been. we'lling going moo the 13th hour of deliberations. we didn't hear from the jury all day yesterday. they asked for a list of evidence, of exhibits. today at 9:00 they were in there. they had lunch brought in, as far as we know they could have continued to deliberate over that lunch break. it was a little more than an hour ago, maybe 5, 10 minutes before 6:00 that they said we have a question. that question was about what the definition was of manslaughter.

"may we please have clarification on the instructions regarding manslaughter"? they came back into the courtroom, they agreed to send a note back to the jury to say what more specifically is your question and then we'll see what they bring back. in the meantime dinner is being brought in. just bringing folks up to date to may just be tuning in. john? >> all the instructions don't necessarily apply. do you have excusablablablable r negligence. the instruction itself is confusing to me and in that sense because do you have elements in there that really don't apply to this particular case and the lawyers really

should have agreed through stipulation to excuse and eliminate those particular areas that didn't apply so you wouldn't have jury confusion. >> they're saying it's been a long day and they're tired and they're sitting in that jury room and they don't know what's going on in the courtroom. >> i believe with john's objection, sustained, this part of the jury instruction probably should not have been in there and so perhaps that's what's causing the confusion. >> we're going to take a quick break. actually, let's go back. i want to go over some of the very specific pieces of this case and i know we've got some sound from some of the key moments. do we have that ready to go? all right. so let me talk to you because we asked you if you would, lisa, to put together maybe a memorable moments. what stuck out for you? >> you know, when i've been thinking about what the most important piece of evidence in the case was, let's first start with the prosecution, it really goes back to the nonemergency

call that george zimmerman made about trayvon martin. and why is that? because he uses that language, the profane language as a-holes and f'ing punks. i think everyone knows what that means. the prosecution says that's indication of ill intent. he jumps to the conclusion that trayvon martin is a criminal. he's one of those people, one of those people in the community. the best the defense could get out of that in closing argument was he didn't say it in a loud way. he didn't say it in the way the prosecutors have said it. he said it quietly under his breath. that appears to be the way george zimmerman says about everything, in a relatively calm voice. the would think they set the stage for the whole fight and the shooting that followed. >> and the subtext, which is the whole issue of race in this.

this certainly has been throughout the community, as you pointed out, but one of the interesting things will be if we hear from jurors and we don't know who they are right now but how much that was discussed inside that courtroom. >> and the subject of race was throughout the trial. you think about the fact that the defense put on -- theirs last witness was a woman who had her home burglarized. but in addition to that, just the whole context of a young black man walking through the neighborhood and the instant perception that he didn't belong there. the idea that a person who isn't a police officer could come um and ask you what are you doing here? did he had to answer? i think that's why the black community attached on this to case so much. because did you have this notion of not being permitted or welcomed in the place that you are because this is a gate

community. i think that's what really caused this case to take on such resonance for african-americans, especially people who have boy children where i do where you worry about them out in the world. i lived in a gated community. you move there because it's safe. the notion that your child would also be seen as out of place, as dangerous inside a gated community, that actually is terrifying to black parents. >> and in a community, not that it should matter, where about 20% of the population are black residents. >> absolutely. >> let me pause. we actually do have the 911 call for those who want to be reminded. >> assumptions presume a lack of evidence. if you have to presume something, you don't know it. and if you don't know it, it hasn't been proven.

>> do we have the 911 call? do we have the 911 call cued up? >> the 911 call, which we heard over a dozen witnesses testify to a certainty that is trayvon martin or to a certainty that is george zimmerman, i think you raised the question is it possible that both of them are yelling on the call. perhaps at one point it's one, at another point or another. mark o'mara said, no, it's only one. a number of witnesses said they only heard one. there is a fair amount of screaming and it stops. and then it stops when the bullet rings out. >> let's listen. >> something's wrong with him. yeah, he's coming to check me out. he's got something in his hands. i don't know what his deal is. >> okay, just let me know if he does anything. >> that is not the 911 call.

>> that is the first one with the profanity on it. that's the very first call to the police that night by george zimmerman when he looks out the window and sees trayvon martin. >> what's interesting about that call to me and i've talked to friends that are police officers and what strikes them is the way george zimmerman talks. that he always sounds like a police officer. and there's a classic defense to a shooting, but every way that he defends himself after the shooting is the way police defends shooting, he was going for my gun, he has something in his hands, just the way he talks cop talk, which in a sense made him more comfortable with the police officers. his uncle, the fact he wants to be a police officer. i thought probably the most arresting kind of image -- >> no pun intended. >> no pun intended, i don't know if they said in front of the

jury that notion that george zimmerman wanted to be a police officer and in his first assignment at seminole state college was he wanted to be a police officer to hunt down fugitives so they don't get away or hunt down criminals so they don't get away. that is sort of the definition of george zimmerman and because he didn't testify you're left with that and the very flat demeanor on the 911 calls and the flat demeanor in the interview with sean hannity. >> i think it's a good point to go back out to sanford, florida, as we wait to hear if the jury is going to come back with a more specific question. craig melvin, it's a good point to do a review for all of us, kraeg, of where we've been and hough we got here. >> 18 witnesses called by the

defense and 38 called by the state. here we are, more than 12 hours into jury lib deliberations. here's a look now at some of the other more memorable moments from the trial as well. >> please be seated. court is in session. >> reporter: it was predictably unpredictable, including the prosecutor's blunt opening statements. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> [ bleep ]ing punks. these [ bleep ]s, they always get away. >> and a knock knock joke that fell flat and for which the defense later apologized. >> knock knock. who's there? george zimmerman. george zimmerman who? all right, good, you're on the jury. nothing? that's funny. >> and the parade of witnesses. >> of course you don't know if he was telling you the truth or

not. >> why he need to lie about that, sir? >> rachel jeantel, the friend who was on the phone with trayvon martin moments before he was shot said he was trying to get away from a man who was following him. >> creepy ass cracker i heard trayvon saying and get off of me. >> but then came neighbor john good, a prosecution witness whose story seemed to bolster zimmerman's defense. >> i could tell the person on the bottom had a lighter ske eed color. >> did you feel it exaggerated the manner in which he was hit? >> yes, sir. >> the courtroom was riveted by the testimony of grieving parents sybrina fulton and tracy martin, who talked about losing their 17-year-old son.

>> my world has been turned upside down. >> and late in the trial prosecutor john guy used a mannequin to demonstrate the state's theory of the case. >> were you aware the defendant described to his best friend that when he slid down, the defendant slid down, that trayvon martin was up around his armpits? were you aware of that? >> no, i've not heard that. >> where would the gun be now? >> now the gun would be behind your left leg. >> okay. >> defense attorney mark o'mara used the same mannequin to give jurors an alternate view. >> could it happen this way? >> yes. >> a key question for the jurors, who was screaming on that 911 call moments before the fatal shot? witnesses on both sides said they could identify the voice. >> my son george. >> i felt inside of my heart

that it's my son george. >> it's george. >> it's giorgi. >> trayvon benjamin martin. >> even if you don't do enough to injure the brain significantly, you're going to have some stunning effect. >> he said he felt light-headed, had a headache. >> he did have some lacerations. >> how would you classify the severity of the confusions and abrasions to his face? >> very small. >> and was mattin punching or trying to get away from zimmerman fired the gun? >> we are confident that at the end of this trial you will know in your head, in your heart, in your stomach that george

zimmerman did not shoot trayvon martin because he had to. he shot him for the worst of all reasons, because he wanted to. >> george zimmerman is not guilty of murder. he shot trayvon martin in self-defense after being viciously attacked. >> reporter: in his closing arguments, defense attorney mark o'mara called for a moment of silence, then for a meinute, thn two, then more. >> that's how long trayvon martin had to run, about four minutes. when he said he was running, that's how long. >> reporter: then hauled out a chunk of concrete to show how martin used the sidewalk as a weapon. >> that's cement. that is a sidewalk. and that is not an unarmed

teen-ager with nothing but sk skittles trying to get home. >> prosecutor john guy attacked those four minutes. >> four minutes is not the amount of time that trayvon martin had to run home. four minutes is the amount of time that trayvon martin had left on this earth. >> and he closed with a question to the jury. what if the roles were reversed? >> and if it was trayvon martin who had shot and killed george zimmerman, what would your verdict be? that's how you know it's not about race. >> a look back there at some of the more memorable moments over the past few weeks here in sanford, florida. i heard lisa bloom a few moments ago talk about the idea, chris, of perhaps the top count being off the table, perhaps now

manslaughter being the sole charge that the jury is considering. i asked that question, i posted that question to one of the martin family attorneys yesterday and we talked about whether that would be a compromise verdict. we heard mark o'mara talk about this compromise verdict a couple days ago at a news conference and one of the martin family attorneys said to me we would not be surprised at all if we got that so-called compromise verdict. >> it's a good reminder of what has led up to this point. we are waiting to hear what the jury says in response to that. anything that struck you, joanne? >> the dummy. i think that it really helped out a prosecution that up until then hadn't made a point they should have gotten to a lot.

it was important for them to do that. it's interesting. s timism thought the prosecution buttoned the case up and wrapped it up the best is when the jury wasn't there and they were arguing against the motion to acquit. i was like why haven't they been doing that the whole time? and on the defense side i think probably the strongest point for mark o'mara really was the jury instruction about reasonable doubt. because it was confusing actually in a way but probably in a way that was helpful to their side because he sort of left the impression if you have any doubt about anything at all on earth, you have to acquit. that was probably his best moment. >> i like the use of the mannequin, too. i call that day criminal trial for dummies. i think it helped us visualize. you like that? >> yeah. >> rachel jeantel, we talked about her so much early in the trial and then other witnesses came and we talked about them and closing argument, but she is a very important witness for the prosecution. if her testimony was believed, trayvon martin was concerned

about being followed and the last thing she heard was sound of the head set dropping and the words "get off, get off." >> she stuck to that. they rememberednerisms and saying "sir" a lot. she did not sway off her from story. she stuck to the idea that trayvon martin was being followed and to lisa's points to her were "get off." we might presume by now that the judge has sent a note into the jury and said we want a more specific question from you about the clarification, the kind of clarification that you want on this manslaughter charge. we're going to take a quick break and be back with more live here on msnbc. [ brent ] now steve's looking pretty good so far.

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more than 14 hours deliberating and the question is on the manslaughter charge. the last thoughts they were left with in the case are the closing arguments. we're going to play a little for you. the last word we heard from the prosecution came from john guy. >> this isn't a complicated case. it's a common sense case. and it's not a case about self-defense, it's a case about self-deni self-denial. george zimmerman. >> we heard those last words, karen desoto, from john guy. in your experience, are those last arguments the one that stay

with these jurors most? >> they always tell you it's the first and last things the jury remembers. you're really hammering home the theory of your case, which was a little problem for the prosecution because it really wasn't cohesive. there were a lot of theories going on. i think both sides did a wonderful job but what struck me the most about the closing arguments was there were a lot of conclusions, a lot of assumptions. so the reasonable doubt again comes into play there, especially with john guy, who is very, very passionate about what he was saying and what he was doing. and i thought he did a wonderful job in evoking the emotion and trying to close up those gaps that he had, which was a great job. listen, you know, the defense had some work cut out for them, they had to explain those inconsistencies. i think he did a great job. but at the end of the day, it seems like a lot of the evidence kind of fell short. you may have a gut feeling, you

may have emotions in this case but you're still going to sit there as a defense counsel and say the prove just wasn't there, you may have feelings, you may have gut feelings, you may feel this was a tragedy but really are the facts here? and there's two totally different versions here. you have two different pictures of zimmerman here and it's going to be interesting to see which way the jury goes. i mean, you really have a really evil kind of, you know, stalking and he was going after this person and then you have the defense who's like, listen, he's just a good guy helping out the community. you really can't get diverse definitions of a person than what was laid out in that case. there's two different sides and how is this jury going to reconcile it? >> i somewhat disagree with what karen is say because as a civilian on the panel, the nonlawyer, i don't remember anything the defense necessarily said in their closing but i

remember what john guy said. i remember lines that he said. and this idea that trayvon martin is 17 years and 21 days forever and that we owe to the living respect and we owe to the dead the truth, i think that kind of stuff will work on a human level. you have to remember the jurors are like me. they're civilians. they're just going to try to remember what heard. i thought john guy was good because he gave me a summary finally of what it is the prosecution thought. they explained the most simple element of all. if george zimmerman had done what neighborhood watch people are told to do and stayed in his car, we wouldn't be here. that stuck with me because i never understood why that wasn't the prosecution's case all along, why they didn't hammer that home. the idea of following someone is, in a sense, aggression. is it enough to be the initial aggressor? i don't know. i think guy walked away between bernie de la rionda, john guy and mark o'mara, the person whose words i remember is john

guy. >> less than ten minutes ago we got a note from the court saying they'd been called into recess for an hour while jurors eat dinner. the deputy informed the court we're not going to hear anything back, the lawyers who had the chance, they were concerned about leaving and them come being back with a question that would have to be negotiated, let's call it that. but anyway, now until at least 8:18, they are on essentially a dinner break. i interrupted you. >> no problem. i'm waiting to hear what their next question is going to be. i'm anticipating we're going to hear that probably shortly after dinner, the jurors will confer, write it out, it will go back to the court. that will give us real insight into where they are on the manslaughter charge and what the issue might be. >> and may give them time to take a deep breath, sit back, refuel themselves and very literally as well as sort of

physically, emotionally in every possible way and they'll come back with a question. the judge has said you're going to decide how you're going to do this. they could keep going and say here's our question, we'll come back and hopefully get it answered in the morning. we don't know that. we'll be back in just a couple more minutes. live coverage of the george zimmerman deliberations right after this. [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight back fast with tums. calcium-rich tums starts working so fast you'll forget you had heartburn. ♪ tum tum tum tum tums ♪ [ male announcer ] some things are designed to draw crowds. ♪ ♪

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>> no one but the six jurors know how close they may be. what we do know is they have a question about manslaughter. meantime, speculation runs rampant about how close may might be. i'm wondering what the scene is outside there. >> just off camera position, this way here is the gathering zone for folks who want to come

down pro trayvon martin and pro george zimmerman supporters. as we probably have been reporting much of this afternoon and tonight, they've been largely peaceful today. unfortunately there was one shouting match, if you will, that had to involve some sheriff deputies separating some folks. right now the jury is having dinner and we think not actively deliberating. a lot of the folks seem to have left. i think once the reporting picks back up or once we know what the question is, the specific question with respect to manslaughter, i think maybe some folks will start coming back here. a lot of folks are speculating what all of this means. if you go online and the national vfrconversation on soc media, folks are coming to talking each other into what it

means. manslaughter, i've read the charge and it's pretty vague in my line of thinking. it not surprising they would have a question on the specific instruction on that charge. >> john, let me bring you in. it's not uncommon, is it, especially if there are one or two people who may have a different opinion that the rest of the group or the foreman will say what is it, what is it that's keeping you from coming to the same conclusion? that can also precipitate a question. >> that happens routinely because there will be jurors in there who will disagree. the majority might say you need to read the jury instruction or read back the testimony to get a better understanding of it. what's going on is not surprising or unusual. i bet they will have difficulty coming up with a real coherent

question on clarification that can be answered. because unless they say to the judge, look, what does excusable neglect mean, the judge is being placed in a position of trying to interpret perhaps a law that applies to a particular fact pattern. this can be very difficult. i have seen this time and time again. it's a challenge for the lawyers and the lawyers will fight about this with the court but at the end of the day, the judge is trying to protect the case from herself or himself being reversed. >> we were talking as we were going into this about the lawyers themselves and i was hearing you talk about that and the arguments that they're making. it's tough. when you're in one of these cases and, you know -- >> absolutely. >> the jury is away from all of this analysis, but you're not away from all of this analysis. you could be walking down the hallways in courtroom and did

you hear what karen desoto had to say about your closing argument or whatever it is. how much does that play into it do you think? >> that part doesn't really affect lawyers as much but what does hurt and what the lawyers are dealing with is when the juror questions come back. depending on what side you're on, it affects your sense about where this case is and you may have to prepare yourself and prepare your client for a result that might be an adverse result that they had not anticipated. this is gut wrenching time for lawyers and you looked at the lawyers' faces on both sides, particularly on the prosecution side, they really were worried. i thought maybe a verdict had come in because they were very, very worried and it's the kind of thing that everybody's worried about as the lawyers. so you have to keep your wits about you because you have to go deal with those instructions. and you got to keep your client properly focused as well as yourself. >> and timing is everything.

in the course of the case, both sides are going to have ups and both sides are going to have downs. the fact of the matter is through most of the case you feel like you can redeem yourself and turn the case again in your direction. we're getting down to crunch time here, we're getting down to the point where it's very specific and it almost impossible to overstate the importance of what's going to happen over the next hour or so. >> absolutely. and as an attorney, what you do after you're done when your closing and case is in, you second guess yourself and say should have i done this, should i have done that? it really drives you insane. and then when the jury instruction or a question comes out, you spend so much time going what does that mean? do you think that means this? you get yourself so worked up. do you think that means this? oh, they want this portion read and what does that mean? could they have moved on to the

lesser included offense? you just really work yourself into quite a frenzy. so when those questions do come in be you're like -- and then you have your poor client sitting there saying what does that mean? you're trying to prepare them mentally, no matter what happens, sit will, don't cry out, don't make a sound, don't jump out of your seat, which is very difficult. >> and you have the jurors, they need help right now. they haven't asked for help all day long. they've never asked a question, they've only asked for that list of evidence. now they need help and you say you're the civilian on this panel so you can make put yourselves in the shoes of the jury. they could get the answer back you're not getting an answer. >> exactly. knowing that the answer could prejudice the result. maybe they're asking the question because they're leaning toward manslaughter or leading away from it and you don't want the judge to push them in one

direction or another but it's got to be frustrating because these are not lawyers. i'm sitting here reading the manslaughter statute myself and i can understand how they might be confused. you're talking about potentially negligence, there's excusable homicide with three different versions, all of which have to do with accidentally killing someone. one of the three accidental codicils of law said if it's by accident or sudden combat. maybe that's applying. it almost like a multi- choice test, taking the s.a.t. test where there are two answers that are sort of close and you have to decide the right one. it interesting, when you look at the courtroom the way we've been watching it every day, you'll notice that angela cory, the boss of these three men doing the prosecuting, she always sits with the victim's parents.

she prosecuted an african-american woman who shot over the head of her boyfriend, her husband, who was known to be abusive to her. but what she said in that case was there were two children there. there were two children in the vicinity when that shot rang out and she stood hard and fast by her victims, as she said, in that case. so she's a tough boss, a tough prosecutor, who goes all out for victims and was physically with the victim's family all through the trial. >> we're going to take a break and be back with more after this. these are good. told ya! i'm feeling better already. [ male announcer ] new alka seltzer fruits chews. enjoy the relief!

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jurors asked for clarification on the manslaughter charge but it was too general. the court sent back a note asking them to be more specific. that doesn't mean the jury is in recess. who are the members of this jury? what do we know about that? we haven't seen them, we have not heard from them. let's go back to craig melvin, who is outside the courthouse for us, and what can you tell us about these six women, craig? >> anyone following the trial knows this is a jury comprised of six women, five of them are white and one of the other women is of puerto rican or african-american dissent. we also know five of them are married, five of them have children. one of the jurors has eight children, in fact. eight children. only one of the eight is over

the age of 18. at one point during the jury selection process, judge nelson and bernie de la rionda, they were talking to this juror and one of them asked her do you belong to any organizations? and the woman's response was, when you have eight kids, your house itself is an organization. that elicited a great deal of laughter from the courtroom. so we know a little bit about the make-up. we also know that juror e-6 is probably the juror that we have paid the most attention to because she has sort of made a name for herself as being a prolific note taker so to speak. she's probably taken more notes than any of the other five jurors. and here's the make-up of what they do. two of them are unemployed, one is a nurse assistant, one managing arenrental property, of them is a call center supervisor and one is in an unknown

history, who is married to someone in the space industry and has been in the same job for 16 years. judge nelson over the course of the past few weeks has asked them do you have want to stop for a dinner break, do you want to stop for a lunch break, a bathroom break? more often than not and there was one exception two days ago when they said we need to eat, that was the on time this jury has waved the white flag so to speak. they have plowed on. it will be interesting to see whether they do that again tonight. it will also be interesting to see, chris, whether they decide to deliberate tomorrow if they don't reach a verdict. judge nelson has indicated that is also something she is going to leave in the hands of this jury. >> all right. that is very interesting stuff. i think we also know that two of them are involved in charities that involve animals, animal

rescue, if that tells you anything about it. >> yes. >> going back to the average person, one of the questions that i have gotten a lot, karen, is why did the defense allow five mothers on this jury? the assumption being that if you're a mother, you are going to immediately relate more to trayvon martin and to his family. >> and there was a report that the mom that did have the eight children was crying during the prosecutor's closing. so that's very significant because that's telling you as an attorney they may be siding with the prosecution. the defense -- there's a lot of study that say women are more likely to fight guilt but when you have the case of the 17-year-old, it's a lot to consider. normally you don't want attorneys on your jury. >> there are interesting studies

about group dynamics and part it have has proved that if you have men in a group and women in a group and you give them a problem, women are easier, more methodic methodical, more lukeikely to ga consensus. and if you have men in a group and insert women, you are more likely to get a consensus. it does show you how they approach problems differently. >> absolutely. if you've ever had roommates, there are just the dynamics of living with women, which some people love and some don't, it depends on your point of view. and then there are the age discrepancies between them. will the juror who has managed a call central be the natural leader? who gets chosen as the foreperson? and i'm interested in the ages of the jurors. several of them are over 40.

to somebody offer 40, a 17-year-old is a child. but for someone who has littler kids, a 17-year-old is closer to a man. i think it's significant that the defense wanted to put on a woman, a mother, who said she had her home broken into by a young black man. that's appealing of the fear of strangers or people committing crimes in your community, the threat to your safety that could be posed by the scary person that the defense sort of represented trayvon martin to be. so a lot of that plays into it. i do think the race matters. there are seven african-americans that made it into at least part of the jury pool, all of who were voir dired away. mark o'mara was asked in a press conference afterwards about the concern of the perception that they pushed african-americans off off the jury. i think once the case comes in there's going to be a lot of

study about whether the race of these jurors wound up mattering. >> do you think it will in the end, john? >> the prosecution tried to eliminate two women and mark o'mara filed a protest that says he was systematically excluding women and those women were brought back on the jury. so he had a chance not to have more women but he chose to do that. at the end of the day i think it's a question of background, what are your experiences. if you no or limited experience with african-americans, i think you'll be less likely to buy into the whole issue of profiling and what that really meant. but if you have some experience, you can clearly relate to the fact that george zimmerman was in fact profiling him. so the backgrounds of the individual people are important. i do think the leader of the group, the foreperson, who i think would probably be the retired supervisor, is extraordinarily important because she can guide it. she can also make people who have biases of some kind to make sure that they are put away, if

they voice them in some way. so she can keep the -- a good foreperson will keep them on track and maybe sure they look at the evidence. the biases and people's backgrounds are extraordinarily important. >> as much as you think that you can kind of glean from a person's background, you would be so surprised. i mean, i had a juror once who i thought he was military and i thought that he would be very conservative. he wound up being the complete opposite. so those markers that you kind of look at, you don't know. people bring their own bias, they bring their own baggage. you really don't know. you're surprised at the end that maybe your guesses were that off. >> there were at least two gun owners. i think that might be something that might be significant because they'll know what it means to carry a gun, they'll know what it means to use a gun. and their b-37 who in her questionnaire described the big protests when george zimmerman was not arrested as riots.

up might think this was a person predisposed toward the prosecution. when you have people with these opposite dynamics, what happens when they're in conflict? and can the majority sway the minority view. >> you want to the get in here? >> i wanted to clarify something perhaps. the race of the nonwhite juror, she could be black, she could be his manic. could be a mix of both. we don't exactly know but juror b 29 i said earlier i didn't want to mislead anyone. juror e-6 actually got arrested once for something and during the jury selection process she said she was treated fairly and added "i deserved it." >> there was also another juror i thought was interesting who had served on a jury 20 years ago on a drug case in pennsylvania. no verdict was reached in the case. >> maybe she is determined that that is not going to happen

this time. not going to be a hung jury this time. let me play for you sense we were talking about the whole issue of race something that john guy had to say. h is from his closing, correct? >> let's play this fairly long clip from the closing of john guy. >> this case is not about race. it is about right and wrong. it is that simple. let me suggest to you how you know that for sure. ask yourselves all things being equal if the roles were reversed and it was 28-year-old george zimmerman walking home in the rain with a hoodie on to protect himself from the rain walking through that neighborhood and a 17-year-old driving around in a car who called the police who had hate

in the heart, hate in their mouth, hate in their actions and if it was trayvon martin who had shot and killed george zimmerman what would your verdict be? that is how you know it is not about race. >> john, is he right and was that effective? >> it is a a commitment that he is getting from the jurors. the commitment is that if the situation was reversed would you make the same decision. do you have the state of mind that says regardless of the race you could make a decision. and this is an extraordinary point. the kind of point that should have been raised during jury selection because that is the kind of question that you want jurors at therors aston villa outset to see what their mindset is and how they feel about it. at the end of the case that was a very important point to at

least reenforce that the question is not about race. you have to make the decision based upon the evidence and that any prejudice that you may have against african americans you will put that aside. >> i thought it was so important that he did that. if you look at the -- john guy is a southern man and he is in a southern town. he first start the by excusing them on the issue of race. he gave them exculpat. he said i want you to do the same thing in this case with the black victim and the hispanic, white hispanic defendant that you would do if the races were reversed. a wonderful way of excusing these jurors from any burden of race while still asking them to be fair on the issue of race. >> very clever way of putting race on the table. we are 20-25 minutes away from the one hour recess being over

with we assume the dinner wreck being over and possibly the question coming back, the question that could be critical in the deliberation and in the case. what specifically does the jury want to know about the instructions about what constitutes manslaughter in the case against george zimmerman. we will take a break and be back with more after this.

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about 13 hours of deliberations. they came back with a question. we are waiting to get clarification on that question. and they are going to be coming back from break in about 20 minutes. when they do, we expect to hear what they have to say and then oh, boy, let's see what happens in the courtroom because this is a critical decision by the judge. critical for both sides. we will hear probably some very intense arguments. we will take a break and be back at the top of the hour on msnbc. yeah... try new alka seltzer fruit chews. they work fast on heartburn and taste awesome. these are good. told ya! i'm feeling better already. [ male announcer ] new alka seltzer fruits chews. enjoy the relief! [ herbie ] eh, hold on brent, what's this? mmmm, nice car. there's no doubt, that's definitely gonna throw him off. she's seen it too. oh this could be trouble. [ sentra lock noise ] oh man. gotta think fast, herbie. back pedal, back pedal.

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