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one minute past 8:00 on the east coast. we are in msnbc continuing coverage of the george zimmerman trial. in sanford, florida, the jury in the george zimmerman trial is deliberating. they have been deliberating all day since 9:00 this morning. in the past couple of hours the is six member all female jury

did send the note to judge debra nelson asking for further clarification on one of the two possible charges. one is second-degree murder but they want to know about manslaughter. it was a general inquiry in the form of a note that they sent to the judge. the court reconvened to discuss to figure out a way to respond. they did some research and some legal esearch. the prosecution, the defense and judge agreed collectively to send a note back to the jury asking them to specify their exact question relating to the manslaughter charge. during that time the jury decided to order dinner. they had had lunch between 12:00 and 1:00 and at this hour the court is in recess. it is only going to go for about 15 more minutes. we are waiting standing by to see if the jury responds to the know that was sent in response to their question and if there can be any further clarification it is not just going to happen. it could not be a clarification but until we get to that point

there will be back and forth between the prosecution and the defense. i will bring the panel back in. karen desoto and lisa blume and former prosecutor john burris. i have been scrolling through the newspapers especially the local newspapers to see how they are reporting on this. we are at a very dramatic point of the trial. the sentinel head lye is what it if there is a hankerer? hung jury. >> the fir question was about an index to the evidence that they got. and today this he have a question about manslaughter. if there was any indication of a hung jury it would be a question like what do we do if we can't all agree or we have one person who is a problem. we have seen that in high profile cases. we don't have anything like that. there is no limit on jury

questions. they can ask as many questions as they want and go back and forth with the judge. sometimes jurors get kind of warmed up when they start sending out questions and start sending out more questions. this is the first substantive question we have from the jury. they only had the one about the index previously. the judge is sort of educating them. i can't just engage in general colloquy with you. >> they have been at it 11 hours. >> means that not only the lawyers and the judge -- >> women, though. they will push through. >> everybody is talking about mothers. thisth is a jury of woring mothers. we are pretty much capable of working around the clock. >> we are moms. >> but the court staff and everybody else has to stay while they are deliberating. >> we can't feel what it is like to be in the room.

kerry sanders was inside the courtroom as all this was going on. what can you tell us? >> i can tell you who was not in the room and that is surprising to me and that is trayvon martin's parents. of course, you have the prosecution and defense team who you saw on camera. perhaps you didn't see sort of in the background there is the special prosecutor was there but you not spending too much time really at the prosecution table but rather back in the general seating where she spent most of the time. what i can point out is from experience of covering courts in florida over the 30 years of covering courts in florida i have seen jurors ask questions to judges about the law and going through the language of the law and remember that these can appear extremely complicated and when you look commas, andsre is come mass and ors. jurors sometimes feel that one paragraph.onflicts withh

this will probably lead to a specific question. judges don't interpret the law back to the jurors. they more than likely bring the jury in and either read the law to them or read all 27 pages to them on is a that is generally what i have seen happen. i have been in touch with a judge who is not involved in this particular case talking to her about some of these issues and she said that is the way it has to be because otherwise you run into problems on appeal because nobody is supposed to interparenting time the words of the legislature that created the statute which is the law in the state of florida. >> i want to ask you and i realize it has been 11 hours since they have been in there and a lot can change. everybody tries to lead the tea leaves. at what point paying attention. at what point dozing off or taking a lot of notes.

one report i heard is that the jurors seem to o be fairly relaxed and getting along, not a lot of tension. what has been your observation? >> you have to remember we have not soon too much of them coming and going outside of the courtroom and that is by design. when they leave the courthouse here it is really quite a secret mission as they move them to the hotel that they are sequestered in and when they leave the hotel it is the same sort of thing. nothing more than a sense of togetherness i have seen from them go coming and going. one of the other things and again it is kind of hard to read. we look at this and there are even experts who spend their lives studying this and don't really quite know it. i did notice in the final rebut tal statement by unguy that they all really basically stopped taking notes and appeard that they had heard enough and written enough notes. they absorbed everything and listened to that and takes us to where we are now. there is a lot of tea leaf

reading of what does this mean because we are dealing with the specifics of the question about the law does that mean they are bouncing between the three options here because they have now pretty much worked through the evidence and which might they be balancing between either second degree and manslaughter or manslaughter and not guilty. stand on the outside of your weight. you never know when is jury is going to come back. the folks sitting behind here are patiently waiting and across the nation people are watching. i have been following the twitter-verse and participating in providing information on there. just a very active waiting game for everybody. >> you think you know what going on in there. but surely some experience tells a little bit about what happened. >> i will point out one thing that somebody mentioned to me and i will let you be the expert on this, okay. it may be that just by the nature of the gender of the

jury here if they reach a decision they might want to sleep on it and come back tomorrow. >> we talked about that the dynamics of a female juror. the dynamics of a murder case and in my percent talking to them after the fact this is a huge decision and they are extremely aware of the empact they going to have not just on the life of the defendant but on the lives of so many people. both families. on the communities. this is not done in absence. it is not without the deep consideration. >> absolutely. i mean we should point out that five of the section jurors all came in here with knowledge of what had happened and said that they could set it aside and that they had known about the rallies and had known about the shooting that took place. they had seen it on the news. one juror that moved here

recently from chicago who has eight kids said she really didn't know much of neglect about this because she is so tied up with her family. being selected on the jury will also that they could present aside what there'd from the evidence that could be presented in the courtroom. >> i assume you are going back in the courtroom and you have 8-mile-per-hours before they go back in so i will let you go. thank you very much. interesting, we were talking and kerry didn't know because he was in the courtroom about the dynamics of a female jury. i do not think it is uncommon for a jury to want to sleep on something especially when it has gotten this intense. >> they take it seriously that if they think it is too soon they will order dinner just to make it seem like -- nobody wants to think that they are not taking it seriously and they do teak it seriously. that is what is so incredible about jurors.

a lot of tears say you never know what you are getting. they are very methodical and very considerate. i have had good experiences and i have had bad. nice to know there is a dynamic will throwing the football. if they are mad at each other that is the sign that maybe you getting a hung jury. that is why we are hanging on every aspect of what is going on and how they are interacting. >> i wonder how late the court is going to go tonight. a couple of nights ago when there was a hearing that went to 10:00 p.m. don west said your honor i cannot physically do this. not so much about him but also that the defendant has a constitutional right to an attorney who is not completely exhausted and wiped out on his behalf. >> and a jury that is not exhausted. >> that's right. >> really can you keep a a

clear head after talking about this for 10 or 11 hours. >> it is important because i want people to understand when you are an attorney on trial there is no way i can describe it other than it is like taking an exam every day. not orange are you on but you have to go and compare and do briefs. you don't answer the phone. you don't answer your mail. you don't talk to any one. it is all-consuming and is is is a difficult job. >> george zimmerman has a 10:00 p.m. curfew. >> they had to extend it. >> they had to ask the judge to extend the curfew and they have to do the same thing for tonight. the judge is there and the court staff is there. a whole fleet of people working behind the scenes probably getting overtime because it is saturday night. very expensive for the state of florida to have the deliberations going on on the weekend and at night. i would assume i'm thinking about around the 10:00 p.m. time frame the judge would probably cut this off.

even if the extremely hard working women of the jury say that is okay we will go to 3:00 a.m., i think the judge will say that is enough. >> just about three minutes before the dinner break ends before the break the one hour break ends and we'll see if we hear back immediately from the jury and see the judge coming back into the courtroom. we will take a break and be back right after this. when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover, and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i've been with bp for 24 years. i was part of the team that helped deliver on our commitments to the gulf - and i can tell you, safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge safety equipment and technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all our drilling activity, twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. safety is a vital part of bp's commitment to america -

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at the george zimmerman trial the judge debra nelson on a tight ship. almost an hour of the one hour break. don't be surprise surprised ife start to see people coming back into the courtroom including the judge herself. we are waiting to hear from the jury. they have been having dinner and that doesn't mean they have stopped talking. let's talk about the lawyers, though, over the last hour. they don't know what the question is going to o be but what have the conversations been like? >> what i would be doing is

what i have been doing which is going over the manslaughter instruction and trying to figure out what they have been confused about to try to anticipate. it is only a page and half. here is an example of language that i think is confusing. in order to convict of manslaughter by act it is not necessary for the state to prove that george zimmerman had an intent to cause death, only commit an act which was not negligent, justifiable or cause death. >> you are not a hour, right. >> each one of the words is confusing and each one of them has a standard definition and it you can't expect lay people to know what intent is or what is excusable in the law or what is justified. >> or negligent. >> or negligent. >> negligent is about two or three months of first year torts, right? >> exactly. >> in law school. >> a lot of times they talk about negligence. >> they talk about the interns and little staff that they have are looking up case law.

>> to apply to to the facts of the case. let's say the jury says george zimmerman did not kill trayvon martin intentionally with a deprived mind that is second-degree murder. he did point the gun and pull the trigger. maybe he didn't intend to kill him, he wanted to get him off. is that manslaughter. they could be pourin pouring os to try to -- the answer is yes, that is manslaughter but it is not clear from this instruction. >> what would you be doing at this hour? >> if i'm the defense lawyers i'm thinking through the questions that might come up and a potential answer. and partly because the instructions themselves are a little bit confusing and they may not all apply. and so you want to be able to tell the court that if an instruction is there you want to make sure the judge doesn't try to explain it particularly if there is some instructions that do not necessarily apply you don't want to tell the judge now to take that instruction out. you just want the judge to be

able to say it is up to you to decide what instructions a apply or not. some play apply and may not all apply. that is up to you. >> sitting next to you, veteran prosecutor paul henderson. have you had time to go over this page and a third? things that not only a jury would find confusing but lay jurors would find confusing. >> i sat in a in and i know fit hand how confusing that could be and they go line by line. it can be confusing even if you have a law degree and you are a trial attorney trying to figure out how are we going to match the facts and this evidence peaced on this sheet of -- based on this sheet of paper or these documents to give us a ruling at the end of the day. that is what is going on right ear. i know right now the prosecution is probably just as worked up as the defense and eager and ready to start

getting in there and arguing about what information they want presented back to the jury when they come back with a more clarified question. but it as stressful time right now for those lawyers in trial. i understand first hand and know what they must be going through. they are on pins and needles as are the rest of us as we continue to wait to see when and if they will make a decision this evening. >> process being held on the fifth floor down the hall from the courtroom. a deputy has told the press to stand by. conflicting reports on whether the court will be called back into session. an hour long dinner recess as you know was called. that maybe says to you they had their dinner and say we are tired. >> i would like to ask for clarification on that instruction. >> that is what he was told by the folks at the court. and it wouldn't be surprising at this point because they have been in there almost 12 hours now. >> and again this is a defendant who has certain

constitutional rights that need to be protected. the jury needs to be clear headed and need to not be exhausted. i mean at some point even if they want to keep going i think it is incumbent upon the judge to say okay enough. i think the judge also and attorneys also would like to get the specific question out of them before they retire for the night so that the attorneys can keep working, right? let them go back to the offices and let them go back to their offices maybe and look up the case law and come back tomorrow morning with their point of view on it. >> that might make the most sense here. there is going to be at least they have to have time to do a little research and time for it to be back and a forth. now, we are looking into getting very late into the evening. >> it is getting late. >> let's talk a little bit about the dynamics again. not just that we talked a lot about the jury dynamics. what about the working relationship and we are all human begs and we are all getting tired.

is it for example a reasonable question to say look, the only thing we should argue for is not to give them a clarification? >> sure. if that is in your client's best interest that is what you need to do. talking about the team of let's say don west and mark op.mara and we see some interns and clerks sitting at counsel table and the judge alluded you have a whole roomful of people downstairs. i assume back at law firm they might. most criminal defense attorneys don't have hundreds of people like a giant law firms that represent corporations. so there are a lot o of volunteers here and you have to get everybody on the same page. whoever is lead counsel which i believe is mark o'meara ultimately going to make the call and make the division. >> this is not the movie and we don't have vast networks of people back there. >> 22 past the hour. we will see what the clarification on the note is. less has been told to stand by.

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we have been talking about the charge that says manslaughter because that is the point of contention right now what we are waiting to hear from the jury about but the first two points are clear. one, trayvon martin it dead and number two, george zimmerman intentionally committed an act or act that caused the death of trayvon martin. i want to play a little testimony. john good who is a neighbor who lived close to where all this was happening is the one who called 911. this is what he had to say about that night. >> the person that you know know to be trayvon martin was on top, correct? >> correct. >> and he was raining blows down on the about person on the bottom, george zimmerman. >> that is what it looked like. >> very important witness. >> he also was extraordinarily careful in his testimony. that that is what it looked

like. he said a couple of times i can't say 100% sure about this. witnesses don't have to be 100% sure. it is acceptable if that is what you believe you saw. that is what they got out of him he believes he saw. this testimony is important not only because he puts trayvon martin on the top and george zimmerman on the bottom. he didn't hear any blows being inflicted. he didn't see zimmermans head being pounded on the concrete, which is the story. it is all very carefully, sir, couple scribed by his testimony that the captain say to 100% certainty. this is just before the bullet shot rang out so that is the most critical moment in the case. that is the moment the jury has to decide was it self-defense at that moment for george zimmerman to take the gun out holster and shoot and kill

trayvon martin in self-defense from the fact that he is in independent and didn't know either one of them is a really important witness for the defense. is that enough for reasonable doubt? we'll see. but that is definitely a defense -- >> there is another neighbor who said it was the boy's voice screaming for help. it was the younger person's voice screaming for help. a difficult question for the jury. >> which is interesting because one of the witnesses who was a medic and it has been my experience as well that grown men screaming for help all sound like little girls which is interesting when somebody is under the stressors and the adrenaline is going is that they sound different and in a lot of cases you would be surprised how many people don't recognize their own voice and the witnesses don't recognize their loved ones on the tape. >> i thought one of the interesting points and i don't remember his name but one of the witnesses one of the friends of george zimmerman said i heard him a lot on the

phone and so i have a sense of what he sounds like, you know, what it might sound like coming through the phone which is very different than we sound to each other in person. let's play that 911 call and hear again what became such a critical part of this case and which was the question asked of so many witnesses particularly friends and family members whose voice it was. >> i think they are yelling help but i don't know. it sounds like -- >> does he look hurt to you? >> i can't see him. i don't want to go out there. i don't know what is going on so. >> do you think either of you and i will ask the gentlemen as well in san francisco that may be if not the one of the top

three or top five critical wees in the case whose voice was on the 911 tape? >> if i'm on a jury and i can figure that out it is a key piece of evidence. not the only thing. >> hold on one second. the public information officer said that the jury finished its dinner and they are continuing deliberations. >> aren't they something? >> they are amazing. >> they are some moms who know how to get it done. >> le all of the discussion about the sympathy and emotion and they are mothers. to me this is what it means to be a working mother because most of them are working mothers. we will keep going and multitask and eat and deliberate and look at jury instructions. i mean that is how this jury comes across to me. going back to the screaming on the 911 if i'm on a jury andky make a definitive decision it's trayvon martin screaming then boy, he is the victim in the case he is not the agresor, not assaulting while he is screaming for help. that wouldn't make any sense. i think it is a difficult decision for them to reach.

of all of the witnesses who testified, yes, it is trayvon martin or george zimmerman. some were criticized because they had to listen to it over and over again. those who reached an immediate conclusion might have been more suspect. those who wanted to hear it several times, perhaps more deliberative and more honest. think of the people closest to you in your life and closest family members and if they were screaming in hysterics because they feared for their life they he would sound surely different than you hear them in ordinary life and would want to hear is a couple of times to say is that my son or my beloved friends. i would want to hear it multiple times before i reached a conclusion. >> and that became a critical point when the defense decided to call tracy martin who at first said -- he disputes he said it wasn't his son. he said it wasn't sure but after hearing it over and over again. >> i have a different view of that particular witness.

i think one of the reasons he was called, the defense wanted to play up you the political end and that set up the witness which was the former chief who came in and testified that there were inconsistencies and best practices problems. that the mayor and county manager were the ones playing the 911 type which is very unusual. i think that the question mark and the politics is something that he wanted to put in people's heads and i think that he had to put trayvon's dad on to accomplish that. >> when you and very often in cases in my experience dueling experts but in this case dueling testimony about the voice could they just set it aside? >> and they kept the experts off of the stand because that is exactly what you would have had if the experts had been able to testify in the case. wannabes pert for the the defense would have said that -- one expert for the defense would have said it is zimmerman's voice and for the prosecution would have said it is trayvon's voice.

i think the jury he they make their decision it will reflect who they perceived to have been yelling on that tape and so the evidence that they hear will all go to conform to the story and when they make a decision we will know who they thought that was screaming on the tape. it is the lynchpin but that doesn't answer the question for us because the jury can go either way and i believe that is how they are going to evaluate the time. it is not something that is going to be as clear for them just like it is not clear for any of us listening definitively absolutely who is on the tape. i think this is what the jury is struggling with and they are looking at it from a broader perspective which version of these events do they believe and then they will plug the tape into the decision. >> i think it would have to be a tremendously difficult decision in that you don't know either of these gentlemen. it is not like you are saying oh yeah, that is my he friend. >> a little bit of a high pitched scream and i remember

rachel gentile said that trayvon martin had a high pitched voice. a babyish voice she calls it. we haven't heard tra trayvon martin's voice in that courtroom. george zimmerman didn't take the stand and i wonder if he could have been asked on cross-examination to scream. once you take the stand you waive your first amendment rights and said let's see you get down on the floor and demonstrate how you got the gun out of the holster behind you. i a. lot of people said can they just make george zimmerman scream to compare to the 911 call. >> and i don't think you could replicate the stressors. when you are listening to the tapes and have them in court it is difficult. when you have a person on the stand who doesn't even recognize their own voice and it happens. what are the jurors going to

do. they may say we don't know who was on the tape screaming for help and say there is not enough evidence. >> and remember what zimmerman said when it was played for him. he said it doesn't sound like me. >> let's reset. we weren't sure what the jury was going to do when they came back. we he thought they might have a question immediately formulated to give to the judge. they have not done that yet but they have done back to deliberating -- gone back to deliberating. we are waiting to hear what their clarification is about what the question is on the instruction on manslaughter. we have been talking here on this set about how being mothers and professional women, they are just plowing on through. we will bring the ye gentlemenn to this as well and at what point do you say give han is going to transpire after the question comes out do we call it a night? we'll take a quick break and be back after this. savings.

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second day of deliberation is. first full day of deliberations. starting at 9:00 this morn something coming up on 12 hours of being in the room. lunch brought in and dinner brought in and now we are waiting to hear what they had to say to the judge who wanted a clarification on their question about the manslaughter charge. i will go back outside the courtroom and obviously when you have a situation like this craig melvin there is anticipation. are they close to a verdict? is that why they are plowing through? are people still hanging out there? >> people are in fact still hanging out here. we just checked, probably about 50-yards from where we are although the crowd has gotten smaller here. there is the leave look right now. a live look at the crowd. the longer that the jury has been deliberating, though, the larger that crowd has gotten. much of the trial, two, three,

maybe four protesters at one point today we were north of 100. i wouldn't say it is just protesters. some were demonstrating as well. some folks also were just kind of stopping by to see what was going on. law enforcement early on decided to essentially divide that area that you just saw from the vantage point to draw a line basically down the middle of the sand one side you have the trayvon martin supporters and on the other side folks who have come out to support george zimmerman as well. today we probably saw at most 8 or 9 george zimmerman supporters and probably 70 or 80 trayvon martin surprised is porters, folks who came out with plaqu placards and signs d sing going on at some point. everything for the most part was peaceful and calm. there was one situation, one

instance where some folks from both camps started screaming at each other and law enforcement had to step in and intervene. no arrests and nothing all that serious. for the most part everything here has been peaceful and calm. as the sun has gone down the crowd has gotten smaller and folks there not singing, not chanting any more but doing precisely what we are doing as well which is watching and waiting for are a verdict. >> and i have to believe, craig, the anticipation here is great as i'm sure it is for all those out there watching it on television. give us a against of what it feels like to be there. >> i had the opportunity to talk to a lot of folks over the past few weeks in sanford and their perspective on this as you might imagine is a little different. this is something that this community has been working through and dealing with for the past the 14 months -- excuse me, february of last year. so that is 17 months roughly.

they are ready for this to be over. and a invariably just about every conversation that you have with someone that is a native of sanford or lived here for an extended peer of team, on my show this afternoon i spent a period of time talking to a woman who owns a shop in a predominantly black part of town and she said verdict not withstanding they are ready to move on here in sanford. that is one part. the other part is there are a number of folks who are very concerned that from here on out sanford florida is forever synonomous with this. they have forever become known as the place where this happened. that is something that people here are also very worried and very concerned about and they he continue to talk about. >> craig melvin thank you very much. i know you spent there and you were nodding as craig talked about that irvineed the mayor

and city manager of sanford. they said this is not who we are. we don't want to be defined as the town where trayvon martin died and the new selma and the new you birmingham as people were saying last year. a city of 65,000 people. not a big city. not a rich city. sanford is the county seat of seminole county florida. which is the wealthiest of the counties in florida but you sanford is the poorest city in the county and the poorest city in florida. a small police force. a strange place and right next door is lake marry that is affluent. craig melvin talked about the part that was forcibly absorbed into sanford. they brought the cities in sort of against their will and there

has been this tension between goldsborrow which maintained its own name and sanford proper. the police force has the long negative ugly history with the black community in sanford. all of that was sort of bunched into the trayvon martin case. this case dragged in issues that had nothing to do with george zimmerman and thog to do with trayvon martin. all of the history burst into the open when this happened. the city has done through a lot. you talk to people and they just want it to be over and they want their city back and they want their reputation back. >> you can't put a price on justice. this is costing them a lot o of money. even going late at night. this is overtime. >> overtime for a lot of people. the court personnel and staff and people behind the scenes that we don't necessarily see on camera but that have to be there to keep the court up and functioning to maintain security. a lot of those folks work monday 9-5 regular hours and to work on the weekend and late nights we are talking about a big ex-pence for the city.

that was all fascinating about sanford, florida. this addition, any city with a huge high profile case and the media descends is just ready to be done with it. >> brentwood, california, and and the o.j. simpson case. >> and they get tired of us. >> usually if it goes on for awhile the local clothing stores do well because we all have to replenish. having said that you just want things to be back to normal. always amazes me let's say in the case of a disaster or a court case even when they can anticipate this the locals do a remarkable job i think of trying to figure out a way to have the impact seem minimal on the citizens of the community. the fact of the matter is it can't disappear. there will be places you have to drive around. you will be seeing all of the big satellite trucks that are going to be there. suddenly somebody wants to cop in for a vacation and some family member to visit you and

there is no hotel rooms. little things that you don't think of. a favorite restaurant that you like to go to well, every night when i go in there it is full of media people. >> who are sticking mycophones in my face and wanting to get information. i think back to the o.j. simpson case which is one of the first i started covering as a legal analyst in brentwood, california york this day tourists come and want to see the house where the murder happened. >> the house is gone. >> right. >> unfortunately, these kinds of notorious stories engender a certain interest in the public. >> the retreat at twin lakes was kicking us out. they wanted people to stop coming to the retreat because people wanted to go to the crime scene and reporters were trying to do their stories inside the restreet at twin lakes. where the courthouse is right where craig melvin is standing it is right down the street from seminole college. people taking summer courses, literally down the street. the main artery is clogged with

media trucks and then also the city of thes was in the midst of trying to do a rebranding. on the third police chief in three years. they were doing this big p.r. campaign that already cost six figures just to get tourists to come. also a tourist town. a waterfront that was virtually empty last year. everyone who was coming there was basically a protester. there was an art festival literally right after all of the protests and they were trying to promote that. they have awful the sorts issues at the same tid time anu have people trying to promote this as a tourist destination when all people know about sanford is that this young man was killed here. >> how much longer will the jury go? how close are any he potentially to a verdict? we are going to stay live as long as is the jury is in session tonight. stick with us here on msnbc.

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it's upside down. oh, sorry. (woman vo) it takes him places he's always wanted to go. that's why we bought a subaru. (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. the stung building about what is going on inside the deliberation room in the courthouse in sanford, florida. they came back from dinner the six jurors and said they wanted to keep deliberating. doing that for more than half and hour now. the question is what are they talking about? talking about getting a question back to the judge, clarifying with what they meant when they asked for more specifics about the charge for

manslaughter? are they close to a verdict? let me go back to john burris in san francisco along with paul henderson. what do you think is going on there, paul? >> john -- >> i think it is exactly what you just stated that they are really focused on the question now. that is just following logic. the issue of the question and the clarification has been presented to them. i prehe superthat they are going to follow -- presume they will toll directions well and focus on that aspect of it' they get back to the rest of reviewing the evidence and answering the ultimate question. what i think is likely to happen is the judge is going to give them enough time. people i'm sure are wondering how long are we waiting and how long will we keep this building open and how long are we sitting on the edge of our seats for the jury to come back. i believe the judge will give them a little who are time to make sure that they want to continue working and then offer them the option of let' let's l it a night for now.

>> i'm to the surprised they have not come back with a question. it is not unusual for a jury to have a question and the judge tell them to go back and get a more specific question but they don't really know how to ask the specific question. >> exactly. >> how do we get the answer we want. >> how to we get it so they move on and go back to work. we may never get a question on that question. we may get another question later on. it is not surprising to me they didn't come back with a question immediately because they don't know how to formulate a a question that is more specific than the question that they asked for. i think paul is right. obviously go as long as they want. i have become a little more concerned if you stay too long here obviously some people are going to get tired and they are going to be different levels of tiredness within that and that means different levels of clarity and different levels of acuteness and i would be concernd that you have some people more alert than others the longer you stay. even though they want to stay.

>> to that point does the defense have a reason and i don't know if it is how to or ten minutes from now or an hour from now to say to judge nelson i'm concerned about, you know, rights of my client and i'm concerned about whether they can clearly formulate a question or clearly deliberate? >> if i'm a lawyer i am saying to the court i understand we want to let them go as long and i know the court doesn't want to interfere with this. there comes a point when we ought to be concerned with whether everybody is as alert as everybody else. the judge would say no that is win their preprerogative. but i want to make my record. >> they are look at manslaughter charge. i want to get them off the manslaughter charge. guess what, time to go home. ima' tired. mr. zimmerman is tired. he has certain constitutional rights at stake here and his liberty is at stake. your honor, time to call it a night.

in the hopes that everybody goes home separately to the separate rooms in the hotel where they sequestered and they he have a chance to think. you don't want some jurors that get tired and say fine, let's go along with what the abler or stronger jurors are saying to do. >> let me make a sports analogy. playing a tennis match and it is wimbledon and it is intense and then there is a rain break and sudden lit momentum shifts. if you are the defense attorney and say they came back and they are talking about about manslaughter that means o obviously they are thinking seriously about this charge and it carries 30 years in prison for my client if i can end this tonight get them to go back and get some sleep and maybe the momentum if we want to call it that or the direction shifts? >> absolutely. and i'm not convinced necessarily they are trying to find manslaughter. means they may be working through the elements of the case so you don't really know.

educated guess means at least they are talking about this and maybe i need to get them away from this. that would be the view that i would have that you want to change it and we have seen this in tennis matches and other sporting events that you get a break, a rain break, time delay and the momentum changes. we saw this at the 49ers game when the lights went out and when the lights went out the game changed and they almost came back. momentum changes and breaks can have a dramatic impact because some people the next day might see it differently. they may have had a chance to reflect on some of that evidence. that can go both ways, of course. >> maybe i'm getting a little slap happy but your reaction talkedand wild you talked about the 49ers. >> a flashback that was not pleasant. >> not in a good way. >> oh, ouch. >> i was going say from the perspective of the prosecution they are probably excited that we are discussing addressing

and focusing on manslaughter. i would be saying here is coffee and a little tea and keep it going and here are snacks for you. keep focused on what you are talking about and let's hope that is what you concentrate on because it is circling around the decision that is in that field. i know in that entire courtroom everybody is on pins and needles and on the edge of their seat and just want something to happen next and we don't know when that is going to happen. >> i know i'm on pins and needles. we he have to take a quick break but we want to know what the jury is talking about and at some point they have so t. communicate with the judge or she with them. they have been inside the room now for 12 hours and we will stay with this as long as they are in the courthouse. we will take a break and be back. coming back at the top of the hour, 9:00 in sanford, florida. hey kevin...still eating chalk for heartburn? yeah... try new alka seltzer fruit chews. they work fast on heartburn and taste awesome.

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