depends on what you mean by a lot. coping with asthma isn't controlling it. test your level of control at asthma.com, then talk to your doctor. there may be more you could do for your asthma. this sunday, the verdict is in. george zimmerman not guilty in the shooting death of trayvon martin. >> we, the jury, find george zimmerman, not guilty. >> a politically and racially charged trial put the spotlight on gun laws and civil rights and race in our society. where does the debate go now? the ref remembered al sharpton joins us. plus, the scene from the ground after the sheriff urges calm. we'll hear from the mayor where the shooting and trial took place. back in washington, a showdown on the senate floor puts washington's dysfunction on full display. >> if we don't pull back from the brink here, our majority

leader will be remembered as the worst leader of the senate ever. >> no matter how often my friend rudely talks about not breaking my word, i'm not going to respond talking about how many times he's broken his word. >> this morning, the majority and minority leaders of the u.s. senate will be here live. is there any room for compromise on the big issues facing the country? health care, jobs and the economy. or are the two parties entrenched, awaiting the next election. majority leader harry reid and majority leader mitch mcconnell weighs off. and the politics of immigration, abortion and the busy and lucrative life of a former cabinet secretary, potential 2016 powerhouse. > >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the world's longest running television program, this is "meet the press" with david gregory. good sunday morning. a lot of news this sunday morning after deliberating for 16 hours and 20 minutes, not

guilty says the jury in the george zimmerman trial. the trial filled with 12 days of emotional testimony and conflicting versions of what happened the night 16 months ago when trayvon martin was shot and killed. for reaction to the verdict, remaining questions, and what it all means, first we want to go live to sanford, florida. kerry sanders has been covering this case from the very beginning. kerry, there was concern about negative reaction to this verdict, perhaps spilling into the streets. the good news this morning, people just waking up, it has not been a violent night, is that right? >> that is correct, peaceful here, peaceful in south florida, where trayvon martin was from. i was in the courtroom when the six female jurors entered the courtroom. as they walked in, not one of them looked over towards george zimmerman sitting at the defense table. he stood up. they sat down. then as the verdict was actually read in the court by the clerk of the courts, again, not one of those jurors looked over at george zimmerman. they were then polled by the

attorneys as is custom, whether they had a unanimous decision. then they left. again, not looking at george zimmerman. this was a jury of six. six women. five of them mothers. five of them white. one of them described by the prosecutor as either black or hispanic. two of them gun owners. after they left outside, there was a fair amount of noise outside the courthouse that could not be heard up on the fifth floor. the jurors did not hear that. the rally was primarily those -- at least those most vocal were those who were disappointed with the outcome, complaining that they felt the system had not delivered a verdict that they wanted. this is a community here of about -- well, we do the breakdown here. it's 78% white, it's 17% hispanic, and 11% black. and the complaints have been since the very beginning here, primarily from the african-american community, that

the system did not seem to represent them from the very beginning with the police department. there have been changes over time. the police chief has been removed. the lead detective who was strongly criticized at the beginning, he remains on the police department. he is the one ho had put together an arrest affidavit. well, they never actually executed that arrest affidavit. he was eventually put back in uniform, working occasionally on the night shift. but he's still here with the police department. looking forward for this community. they now, david, have to continue to see if they can make the community more inclusive. and part of that is waiting for a report from the department of justice, the fbi civil rights division has launched an investigation here to see whether this community can move forward together. >> all right. kerry sanders in sanford, florida, for us. thank you, as always. joining me, the president and founder of the national action network and politics nation, reverend al sharpton. the mayor of sanford, florida, is with us.

savannah guthrie, of course, is co-host of the "today" show and legal correspondent. welcome to all of you. reverend sharpton, a banner headline, as the verdict came in. not guilty with an asterisk, but not innocent. that's how you view it. where does it go next? >> it goes to the justice department. clearly there are grounds for civil rights charges here. the mother and father of trayvon martin and i with their lawyers met with the u.s. attorney in florida. the day i went down to organize the first national rally there. and we always said there would be a plan b. but there needed to be a plan a. there would never have been protests if there had been an arrest and if the police department there did what it was supposed to. >> you wanted zimmerman to have a fair trial. that's what you were pushing for before charges were ultimately filed. was this not a fair trial? >> the trial happened. the verdict came in. it does not exhaust the legal options of this family.

and the bigger community issues of civil rights. we now have a position on the books, in the state of florida, where an unarmed teenager who committed no crime, can be killed, and the killer can say self-defense. that is dangerous. that is an atrocity. i think that must be addressed. i think every american ought to be afraid that my child could do nothing wrong, and can be killed and you can use self-defense, and tell four or five different stories that end up being inconsistent. >> but you don't -- you disagree with the verdict, but you don't question it was a fair trial. if you wanted him to have a day in court, that part of the process worked? >> i question the state law. i question -- yeah, there could have been some things done differently at trial. but the real object now is to move forward on dealing with the state law and the civil rights. and as we mobilize, as you know martin luther king jr. iii and i

marched on washington, on his father's "i have a dream" speech, how do we have this country deal with dr. king's dream 50 years later and you can't walk an innocent child through a neighborhood without the child being harmed, lest known killed. i watched the whole trial. no one can say what trayvon martin did wrong. they always get away with it, a gentleman said. who is "they" getting away with what? >> mayor triplet, down in sanford, the political element to this, going back to the shooting, and trayvon martin's death, initially president obama weighed in at that particular time. his comments were striking. this is what he said then. >> my main message is, it's to the parents of trayvon martin. if i had a son, he'd look like trayvon. a and, you know, i think they are right to expect that all of us,

as americans, are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and that we're going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened. >> has that been achieved, mayor? did we get to the bottom of what happened? >> we said from day one that we were seeking justice, when the demonstrations came to the city of sanford, that they wanted mr. zimmerman to sit in front of a jury of his peers. that's what's taken place. and they have spoken, they've listened to both sides of it. we've done a lot within the city of sanford to make it a better place. through tragedy comes an opportunity is kind of the way we're looking at it. we've set up blue ribbon panels, we've set up community panels, we've set up conversations, walk-and-talks with our police department and community. we're moving towards a trustful relationship between city hall, the police department and our community. we're getting -- we're a better people. >> but to reverend sharpton's point, did trayvon martin do anything wrong?

can you address that point and the tension that comes with that in this situation? >> that was for the prosecution and for the defense to fight out in court. we saw it. we really didn't have a dog in that fight, so to speak. we were -- our biggest concern was for the safety of the people, the citizens of sanford. >> savannah guthrie, the legal part of this is important, because ultimately it's the question if there was too much pressure brought to bear by reverend sharpton and others to bring charges that some said amounted to overcharging george zimmerman. >> some people think it's an overcharge, that the prosecutors didn't have sufficient evidence for second-degree murder conviction. the fact of the matter is the jurors were considering the full range of options. they could look at the lesser charge of manslaughter. this came down to not any particularculiarity of florida law.

look, if somebody fears reasonably they are in danger of great bodily injury or harm, it's the prosecution's burden basically to disprove self-defense. this comes down to that concept of reasonable doubt. it's not necessarily that jurors by their verdict are saying, we believe george zimmerman acted in self-defense. what they're saying, we don't believe the prosecutors didn't prove he didn't act in self defense. >> he met with the u.s. attorney, there will be pressure to pursue civil rights charges. we've seen that before in the case of rodney king, and the officers there. do you think that there's much grounds to move forward there? >> well, look, the reason why some people thought second-degree murder was an overcharge is they didn't think there was sufficient evidence to establish that mental state, depraved mind, spite, ill will. that would be the key element of a hate crime charge. the federal government will look at it. that investigation has been on

hold. whether the department of justice pursues charges, we'll obviously have to wait and see. there's still the option of a civil suit by the parents. the standard of proof is a lot less. george zimmerman could be forced to testify and be cross-examined, so you may see a different result there. but that's not an issue where he would go to jail. that would ultimately be an issue whether he had to pay money damage. >> thank you all very much. we'll continue the discussion. reverend al, you'll stick around. we'll switch gears here this morning and talk about politics and the war of words here in washington on the senate floor. pretty tension-filled day on friday over republicans using senate filibuster rules to block the confirmation of several obama administration nominees. nominees particularly important to organized labor in this country, and particularly important to the administration. the minority leader speaking on friday. >> what the majority leader has really been saying all along is he wants a confirmation process to be speedy, and for the minority to sit down and shut

up. he believes that advise and consent means sit down and shut up. confirm these nominees. when i tell you to. >> we're going to hear from the minority leader shortly. but we want to start with the majority leader, harry reid. leader reid, always good to have you here. >> thank you, david. >> before we get to the senate business and debate there, the zimmerman trial, the verdict. was justice done here? you spoke out about it after the shooting. >> david, i am a trial lawyer, have been, over 100 cases to juries. i don't always agree with what the jury does, but that's the system. and i support this system. now, i may have -- i may feel differently but i wasn't sitting as a juror or prosecutor or defense attorney. i will accept the verdict and look at the law in florida that is so unusual. >> the stand your ground law, self-defense law. >> i think that's up to the

state. i think they should revisit that. >> is this a new racial wound that you think needs to be addressed and healed as a result of this, in this country? >> i heard the mayor. i think it should continue on the path that he outlined. >> and the president, does he have a role in speaking about it as he did after the shooting? >> oh, of course. i think the justice will look at this. this isn't over with. i think that's good. that's our system. it's gotten better, not worse. >> let me switch gears to what's happening in the war of words against you and the minority leader. there's a lot of minutia about boiling down to whether the minority party can and should be able to stop the majority party from getting something done. and as we talk about, what's striking to me, leader mcconnell was on this program nearly two years ago. this is what he said about the concept of divided government then. >> you know, divided government,

that is neither party controls the entire government, is the perfect time to do big stuff. the. >> so what's happened? why hasn't it worked the way he thought it would? >> mitch is going to be on a little later. he's going to defend the status quo. is there anyone out there in the world, real world that believes what's going on in congress of the united states is good? our approval rating is lower than north korea's. it is really, really difficult. and david, let's talk about what is happening. we're not doing anything that affects hivetime appointments. we're doing nothing that affects legislation. here's what we're doing. a president, whether it's president obama, or president clinton, or president bush, they should have who they wanted on their team. the sky is falling. i've been leader for about the same time lyndon johnson was. during the time he was leader, one filibuster.

me, 420. during the time that president obama has been president, he's had 16 filibusters against his nominations. during the entire history of this country, the country, there's only been 20. and changing the rules is like the sky is falling. we've done it during last year, 18 times. we did it just a year ago. i want everyone to hear this. the changes we're making are very, very minimal. what we're doing is saying, look, american people, shouldn't president obama have somebody working for him that he wants? the 15 people that we found closer on, that are pending, they've been waiting an average of nine months. nine months. is that good? do we want to continue that? we're going to make a simple change. what we're going to do is say in the future, just like the constitution outlines, the constitution's pretty specific. if you want a super majority

vote, look at what the veto is or treaty, but if you want to look at nominations, you know what the founding fathers said? a simple majority. >> that's not what you said in the past. you wrote in your own book in 2008, over judicial nominees, in 2005, you wrote, in a fit of partisan fury, they were trying to blow up the senate. senate rules can only be changed by a two-thirds vote of the senate, or 67 senators. the republicans were going to do it illegal with a simple majority of 51. you're saying that -- hold on, let me finish the question. you're saying the sky is not falling. when republicans said it, you said it was illegal. >> but you've answered my question. we're not touching judges. that's what they're talking about. this is not judges. this is not legislation. this is allowing the people of america to have a president who can have his team in place. this is nothing like what went on before. remember what's going on. this president has had 16 executive nominations filibustered. we have now 15 pending, waiting

an average of -- i lost my number there for a second. but they've been waiting an average of nine months. nine months. the three that you talk about all the time, korgrave, this liberal that they don't like, you know who he worked for? b boreck. they have nothing against the qualifications. they don't like the jobs these people have. qualifications, consumer protected against wall street. we have the secretary of labor. they don't like that created during the depression. they don't like that. because this man, perez, who has worked so hard, he was a garbage man during the time he was going through school, perez, you see, wants to be secretary of labor. he's been waiting for months and months. finally, two members of the national labor relations board. what does this do?

it protects american workers from the abuse of the employers. they've been waiting two years. how do you like that one? and we're making big changes? all we're doing is doing what the constitution says. appoint these people by the president and let us approve them with a simple majority. >> and it's whether we're going to get immigration reform. it now moves to the house. do you see this being acted on by the house or dying a slow death? >> david, legislation's been hard to come by, because of the obstruction of the republicans. i'm very happy, and we were so fortunate as a country that one big issue, we've had eight very wise senators, four republicans four democrats, work together to come up with a bill. you know, my friend, the republican leader on here, said we have been able to do the farm bill. we did immigration, as if we should be celebrating. it used to be we did big legislation all the time.

>> but i'm asking you in this case, will the house act? >> yes, they will act. they have to. this is something that the vast, vast majority of the republicans, democrats, and independents support. and john boehner should let the house vote. that's all he has to do. if the house voted it was passed -- >> but the specific complaint by house conservatives, rich lowry will be on the program a little later in the national review on tuesday. they write about the senate bill. the fatal deficiency is it doesn't solve the illegal immigration problem. the enforcement provisions, there are loopholes, waivers. every indication is they are for show and will be disregarded, just as prior national requirements to build a fence or entry/exit visa have been. president obama announced he's ignoring aspects of obamacare. why won't he waive a requirement for the use ofe verify in the

workplace as he unilaterally delayed the program? >> there are so many different questions, but i'll try to answer. first of all, obamacare, whatever comes up, the republicans throw that in. you realize they've voted to repeal it 40 times. what's happened 40 times, of course, it's failed. obamacare has been wonderful for america. 6 million seniors have wellness checks now. 3.1 million young people are now having insurance. insurers can't rip off people anymore. that's why millions of people got refunds last year. you're covered. they should just get real and understand this is a law that's important. and they need to work with us to improve it. >> the narrow question, the specific charge on immigration, though? >> immigration? we have the chamber of commerce, conservative groups all over america are running ads telling republicans, vote for this. this is a good bill.

it gives us security on our border, and it gives people who are here a pathway to citizenship. and david, finally, it saves the country $1 trillion. it's good for the economy. not $1 billion. not $1 million. $1 trillion. >> this could work out in the midterm race. voting to ban abortion after 20 weeks. is it reasonable for it to come up in the united states senate? you've described yourself as pro-life in the past. is it not reasonable to put some restrictions on late-term abortion as we're seeing in the states? >> david, we had a transportation infrastructure construction development bill. so important. that it was agreed upon, chairman boxer, ranking member anhof. one of the most liberal, one of the most conservative. do you know what happened when that came to the floor? it was filibustered. because they wanted women to have con tro accept tifs.

so they can offer amendments. it's the senate. >> i'm asking about the subsidies, is it reasonable or unreasonable? >> i think we should deal with the problems that affect this country. we need to do something to help the american working class. and stop worrying about fringe issues. >> is it unreasonable to put restrictions on abortion after 20 weeks? >> i'm happy to take a look at this. i repeat, let's do things that the vast majority of american people think we should deal with. >> leader harry reid, thank you very much. more to come on all of these things. appreciate you being here. the leading republican in the senate, mitch mcconnell in kentucky, senator, welcome back to you. having a difficult time hearing you. we'll try to establish that. let me get my first question in. your reaction to hearing your colleague say, look, this is different. changing the rules here is not like it's been in the past with regard to judicial nominations. it is appropriate for the majority to be able to get the work done at once. >> yeah, the reason we call it

the nuclear option, david, is because it's breaking the rules of the senate in order to change the rules of the senate which the majority leader as you pointed out in his book indicated was something we should never do. rather than getting down in the weeds on the rules, what is the problem here? the president has had 1,540 of his nominations confirmed. only four defeated. he's not lost a single member of the cabinet. he's getting them faster than president bush was, at the same time in his second term. the majority leader needs to bring these nominees up. most of them are going to be confirmed. it really kind of comes down to three appointments that the federal courts have told us were unconstitutionally recess appointed. two members of the nlrb and cfpb. we need to talk about that. and we're going to talk about it at a rather unusual joint

session in the old senate chamber on monday, of all senators. we need to start talking to each other, instead of at each other. and see if we can't resolve this in the same way that we did ten years ago when republicans had genuine provocation. we had had five president bush's circuit court nominees defeated by filibuster. here no one's been defeated, they've all been confirmed. that's why we're wondering why the majority leader is thinking about the nuclear trigger when all the president's nominations are being confirmed. >> just as there are past statements that senator reid made that, speak to sort of the folly of washington in a lot of people's minds, back in march of 2005 on cnbc advocating for the things he's talking about now. here's what you said. >> they changed 200 years of history during which we had never killed executive branch

nominations by use of the filibuster. they introduced that. it's a terrible precedent. the senate can, with 51 votes, not 60, reverse that precedent. and i believe that it's time to do that. i believe we will go forward with that at a time of the majority leader's calling. >> so you were for it then, you think it's outrageous now? >> look, i'm glad we didn't do it. the provocation was that five circuit court nominations had been defeated with a filibuster for the first time in the american history. the democrats invented that. we went to the brink and we pulled back, because cooler heads prevailed. we knew it would be a mistake for the long-term future of the senate and the country. that's what i hope is going to happen here, david. we have an opportunity to pull back from the brink, in this joint meeting we're going to have of all senators in the old senate chamber monday night. i hope we'll come to our senses and not change the core of the senate. we have never changed the rules

of the senate by breaking the rules of the senate in order to diminish the voices of individual senators. we've never done that. we sure shouldn't start it now. particularly since every one of the president's nominees that would be subject to this rule change have been confirmed. >> do you really believe that your old friend and colleague harry reid is the worst senate leader ever if he goes forward with this? >> no, he won't be if he pulls back from the brink like we did ten years ago. we had much more serious provocation than he has now. he's a reasonable man. he's a good majority leader. we're going to have a chance to air all of this out in a giant conference with all of our members monday. i'm hoping we won't make this big mistake. >> secretary napolitano of homeland security is now stepping down. do you now see a nomination fight over a key security post, secretary of homeland security depending on who the president puts forward, particularly with the immigration debait a key component of what the secretary

of homeland security does? >> in your line of work you tend to use the word fight when we're having a debate. some of the president's nominees have been quite controversial. that's what we do in the senate. we have big debates over big issues. they've all been confirmed. we'll take a look at whoever the next secretary of homeland security is. we've got over 300 million people in this country. we don't all agree on everything. they elect all of us to come to washington and we have some big disagreements and big debates. sooner or later when it comes to nominations, as i indicated, the president hasn't lost anybody. he hasn't lost anybody. are this esaying they don't want us to even debate these nominations? they're getting them more rapidly than president bush got his. that's why we're wondering why this threat to blow the senate up, when the president's getting his nominees. >> on the issue of immigration, which i just referred to a moment ago, how important is it to you, to act this year, to get

some kind of reform? >> well, i hope we can. as you know, david, i'm the proud husband of an immigrant. a young girl came here at age 8 not speaking a word of english. in fact e her parents didn't have enough money for a plane ticket. they came over on a freighter with the freight. my wife, elaine chow, became the secretary of labor and was in president bush's cabinet. look, i'm a big fan of what legal immigration has done for our country. i hope, even though the senate bill in my view is deficient on the issue of border security, i hope we can get an outcome for the country that improves the current situation. i don't think anybody's satisfied with the status quo on immigration. i hope the house will be able to move forward on something and we can get this into conference and get an outcome that's satisfactory to the american people. >> how do you deal with 11 or 12 million immigrants in this country now without a pathway to citizenship? is that dead on arrival? >> i think the stickiest issue

actually is border security. the question is, can we actually get the border secured and not have this happen again. that's the stickiest issue. i think the house will concentrate on that. i hope they will. we need to seriously beef up the border security part. i think that's the key to getting a final outcome. >> i want to talk about obamacare and the implications that is, of course, controversial. as they've tried to publicize this law, and get people familiar with what is possible as they're setting up exchanges around the country, this was a letter that you wrote to the nfl commissioner, one of the leagues that were going to help in publicizing this. you said, given the divisiveness and persistent unpopularity of this bill, it's difficult to understand why an organization like yours would risk damaging its inclusive and apolitical brand by lending its name to the promotion. it was striking how political it was, that letter you wrote to them. you refer to it as a bill. it's actually the law of the

land, which is even affirmed by the supreme court. how can you write such a letter at a time when, don't you feel the need for people to understand what the new law is? >> well, the president himself seems to not think parts of the law ought to be implemented. he selectively is delaying parts of it as if it's all kind of a smorgasbord of options for him to figure out, you know, which ones to execute, and which part of the law not to execute. >> delay is not -- >> for example, they just decided to say, never mind, on the employer mandate. what about the individual mandate? does the president get to decide which parts of the law to comply with? and which parts not? it's a massive, complicated, unpopular bill. obviously if we had the votes, we would repeal it. >> leader, it's not a bill. you support the democratic process. this is not a bill.

>> it's the law. >> it's the law of the land. if the shoe were on the other foot and it was a law that was passed by republicans in congress, would you not refer to it as the law of the land and want to see it implemented as best it could be? despite the fact you disagree with it? >> of course it's the law of the land. i wonder why the president himself is delaying various parts of it. he, you could argue, is not executing or implementing the law that he thinks is such a wonderful thing for the country. this is a big controversial issue. it's not going away. it's in all likelihood going to be the premier issue in the 2014 election. the american people dislike it even more now than they did when it was passed. and they hope that the congress will respond to their desire to stop this train wreck before it happens. >> final point here. another divisive issue, and that is a potential part of the republican agenda this year.

that is tax reform. are you for tax reform, or might you support some in the republican caucus and others calling for abolishment, to get rid of the internal revenue service? >> what i would like to see is the same kind of premise that ronald reagan and tip o'neill, a republican and democrat had back in the '80s, and the prem iise this. the government doesn't gain revenue for itself, it's for flattening out the tax rate, making our country more competitive. if we can agree in advance that the exercise will be conducted within those parameters, that is not a tax increase for the federal government, then i think it would be a very good thing for our country to do comprehensive tax reform, lower the rates, and make america more competitive in the global economy. >> leader mcconnell, a lot of debates on a lot of issues that will continue. appreciate your time this morning. >> thank you. >> coming up here, all eyes now on the house as we've been

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we are back. joining me now former governor of mu next could, bill richardson. editor of national review, rich lowry, president and founder of the politics nation reverend al sharpton. and msnbc contributor steve schmidt. welcome to all of you. wow. so much to get to. steve schmidt, washington dysfunction. again, you can talk about the rule of change and all the

minut minutia, what are we seeing here? >> one of the fascinating aspects of it is the fact when leader mcconnell was in the majority, of course, his view was completely different, as was leader reid's. these are complicated issues. the dysfunction you saw play out this morning is why the senate, why the congress has such a low approval rating with the american people who view this as an institution, almost completely removed from dealing with anything that's relevant to their actual lives. >> mcconnell making a point in saying, what are they so upset about? the president's gotten most of what he's wanted. these are particular nominations that the -- that legally we have a right to challenge. we also know it's ideological as well. >> i think what people are concerned about is there are a number of agencies, not just the ones that mitch mcconnell, senator mcconnell was talking about, cpa, consumer financial production board, department of labor. it's a range.

nlrb. a range of agencies that protects consumers against large special interests. i think the issue here is really that the congress is really unpopular because it's not dealing with the country's problems. i think people really want a functioning senate. >> if it can't function, even though past immigration reform, we see another area where we get nothing done and it gets to the issue of immigration, rich, as i referenced to reid. is it going to be killed in the house? will it die a slow death? will they do nothing? >> it's definitely in trouble in the house. i wouldn't say it's dead, because there are still powerful interests in the republican party that want this to happen. >> president bush didn't approve the particularities of it, but certainly wants something done. >> i think the senate bill is fundamentally flawed. if you believe the cbo analysis and believe there are optimistic functions that the bill happened

the way it's written, which never happens, depending on your estimates we'll have 6, 7, 8 million more illegal aliens here in ten years. this bill fails on its own terms. it fails on the terms marco rubio set out on it. he said, i don't want to have to deal with this problem again. he will have to deal with this problem again if his own bill passes. if the senate wants to pass them, great. we have bipartisan consensus. if not, wait until after 2014. >> western border governor formerly, how do you respond? >> i think the bill is in trouble. i regret it. because i think the true conservative position on immigration reform, here's legislation that improves the gross domestic product. it reduces the deficit. it creates jobs. more social security rolls. it's a path to legalization that takes 13 years. there's a lot of steps that need to be taken. employer sanctions. i was a border governor, illegal immigration has gone down.

it's gone down. the border fence that has been created, it's not going to do much. but if it gets some republican votes, it makes sense. my view is the congress is totally dysfunctional. it's not just immigration. it's the farm bill. it's nominations. it's the national labor relation board. consumer bills. the farm bill, an example. no food stamps for poor people. and what we have is subsidies for the big farmers. i hope there's a filibuster change. i think the nuclear option needs to be exercised. even though i served 15 years in the house for this, i don't go for this. i i think the american people want change. and a real change could happen, if there's filibuster reform. there could be a stop ablg to some of these huge blockages of major -- >> on immigration, according to the cbo, unemployment will be

higher when it still passes between 2014 and -- look it up. >> no. >> wages will be lower until 2024. read the cbo. >> but increasing jobs of 122,000. for someone who's advocated for deficit reduction, here we have $800 billion of debt service reduction. here you're saying, no, we can't take it. >> one of the -- beyond this particular issue is rich's other point which is, you're going to have to come back and deal with the fact you have significant numbers of illegal immigrants here. you'll have to address this again. is that what's motivating conservatives, or pure politics not wanting new democratic voters coming into the country? >> i think the bill is in trouble. i think that is part of the motivation for conservatives, the notion that it doesn't fix the security problems on the border. but what we have today is a de facto amnesty in this country.

we have an utterly broken immigration system in the senate bill, it does a lot to move this country towards a sane immigration policy. what the house should do is pass a version of this legislation that can be conferenced together, and the country can take a step forward in fixing this problem. which is an enormous one. we have a permanent underclass that lives in the shadows in this country. and we ought to fix it. and this has always been premised on the notion that there is a path to legalization, and then there is a final, at the end of the day, solution for the border security issue, that we are able to secure the border. and this bill does in fact make great progress in the securing of the border. >> reverend al, your comments? >> i think we can have different opinions. i think clearly it reduces the deficit, this bill. i think that clearly it creates jobs.

and i think that it is very conservative for many of us that have been in the immigration movement. and have said, let's be fair. i don't know how more fair you can be to think 13 years to make people natural citizens. the dysfunction of this congress around this, and around blocking appointments, and taking food stamps out of the farm bill, i mean, it's any wonder the public has any respect for them at all. >> final point on this, rich, before a break. >> the structure of this bill is exactly the same of 1996, oh, you'll get the amnesty first and all this enforcement off in the future. it never happened. if you want to cut the deficit, there are other ways to do it. the cbo said there's no deficit reduction the first ten years. look it up, governor. >>. >> thank you very much. >> the tea party, there's a political side to this.

and here's the most politicians. the republican party is going to become a minority party. maybe all of those two-party republicans in the house will keep their seats. but you're going to continue to lose presidential elections. you're going to lose the hispanic voter even more than you did in the last election. and it's political suicide what you're doing. >> what happened after the -- did the republicans share the latino vote go up with president reagan? >> yes, it did. >> george h.w. it went down. >> issues change. this is a gateway. senator mccain said, this is a gateway issue for latino votes. we'll come back and talk a little bit more about the political reaction to the zimmerman verdict. ings. and right now we've got everything you need for a great summer. this 5-piece dining set on clearance, save over $49! marco! polo! and these op swim separates, on rollback you save over 20%.

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we're back with more of our ro we're back with more of our round table. we spoke to reverend al sharpton earlier in the program. a new push after the zimmerman verdict for civil rights charges brought against zimmerman. you think this was an overreach, both in reaction to and even the leadup to the charges being brought. >> obviously this is a fair trial. the judge hated one of the defense attorneys, if you saw the way she treated him. initially, when this case came to national prominence, i thought it was wrong he wasn't charged. i thought it was right for people to draw attention to the case for that reason. but the more we learned in the trial, the more clear it was

that the police judgment initially was probably correct, and that this was a case of self-defense. and certainly, it was always absurd to compare this case to emmitt till or crucifixion of jesus christ. that was putting way too much social and political baggage on what was a terrible tragedy. >> i don't think anyone compared it to the crucifixion of jesus chri christ. i think we compared the reaction to the fact that these police made no arrest. we would never have known, if the country hadn't watched this trial, clearly the police should have made an arrest. the story told to the police we found to be inconsistent. some of it outright lies at trial. just because the jury said he wasn't guilty does not mean he was innocent, and that they should not have tried him. it has nothing to do with civil rights charges. you have to remember, the state said this has nothing to do with race. race was not in this trial. which means it can be tried by the feds to see if bias was

involved. it clearly stated we're not talking about race in this trial. well, the civil rights case of the federal government would be around whether race was involved. >> governor richardson, we played it earlier in the program, the president talking in such personal ways of trayvon martin. if i had a son, he would look like trayvon martin. what are the ramifications of this verdict? >> i believe there are racial wounds to be healed. i was disappointed in the verdict. it seemed like a sound, legal process, although the standards seemed very high for the prosecutors. but i worry about the aftermath. i worry about all those young black kids out there that see a system of justice that maybe doesn't respond to them. i think a national dialogue is needed. i think the reverend is right. there's a legal process, too.

but a conversation is needed, because there's a lot of simmering resentment over this trial. obviously, we didn't see any big demonstrations, but it's out there. and we should talk about these things. because, you know, here's a young, unarmed 17-year-old who's shot. all right. the system of justice, we respect it. but that doesn't mean we don't have a dialogue. >> mayor, i want to switch slightly to a couple of political notes. some of the gun laws that work here in florida could be fodder for what happens in the legislature for 2014. also abortion. we were speaking about it on the break. were you struck by leader reid saying he would take a look at late-term abortion bans in the senate? we heard marco rubio might advance that legislation? >> look, i think if the sufficient senate wants to take on this issue, you know, anyone who wants to take on this issue i think is going to motivate

progressives and liberals. these laws are really just efforts to undermine abortion by another name. what's surprising about these debates is how much it's energizing women across the country. i'll remind my conservative friends that we did see a giant latino gap. a huge vote in favor of the president. we also saw a historic gender gap. i think on a range of issues, the republican party is moving out of step with the rising coalition of women, latinos and others, and this will help seal the deal. >> prominent woman as hillary clinton, in the news this week for the lucrative deal she signed with regard to speaking around the country. might she like the private sector more than running for president? or can she resist the platform reach the grass roots? >> she has 30 years of history of talking on a range of issues. and i can ensure people are fas

fated by her substantive conversations on these issues. i think this will be a great opportunity for her to get her views out to people around the country. >> your view of where hillary clinton stands now? >> a formidable candidate for the nomination. it's tough to see who in the democratic party beats her. she's also someone who has no illusions about what it's like to run for president. she's been around it for a long time. it may be as she goes -- thinks about this very brutal process, that lies ahead, if she does it again, maybe she doesn't want to do it. we'll have to wait and sglee we'll leave it there. we'll take a break and be back in just a moment. [ female announcer ] made just a little sweeter...

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we've talked about obama care a couple times in the program. i want to correct something i said last week in our discussion about it. i made the obse we've been talking about obamacare a couple of times throughout the program. i want to correct something last week in our discussion about it. people getting a paycheck would observe they were all subject po a medicare surtax. i was not right about that. the only people subject to it are those who make $200,000 or more, or a couple filing jointly making $250,000. that's the only time the surtax applies. i was incorrect in my conversation about that. i apologize. watch this week's press pass conversation. on the challenges the obama administration faces now at home and abroad in a second term, that's on our blog. meetthepress.com.

if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." good sunday afternoon. i'm craig melvin live in sanford, florida, with fresh reaction to the not guilty verdict for george zimmerman in the death of trayvon martin. >> state of florida versus george zimmerman. the verdict, we, the jury, find george zimmerman, not guilty. >> this case has never been about race nor has it ever been about the right to bear arms. not in the sense of proving this as a criminal case. but trayvon martin was