[ herbie ] there's no doubt about it brent, a real gate keeper. here's kevin, the new boyfriend. lamb to the slaughter. that's right brent. mom's baked cookies but he'll be lucky to make it inside. and here's the play. oh dad did not see this coming. [ crowd cheering ] now if kevin can just seize the opportunity. it's looking good, herbie. he's seen it. it's all over. nothing but daylight. yes i'd love a cookie. [ male announcer ] make a powerful first impression. the all-new nissan sentra. ♪ thanks for disrupting your afternoon. i'm karen finney. ntoday we will take a look t the issues surrounding the george zimmerman trial. >> we the jury find the defendant not guilty. >> george zimmerman found not guilty in the death of trayvon martin. >> he is a free man in the eyes of the court. >> we respect a jury's verdict.

>> but he will be looking around his shoulder for the rest of his life. >> what it boiled down to is a kid minding his own business being followed by a stranger. >> i gave the mother the message as soon as it happened. her response was "wow." >> does this speak it a larger issue of race in america. >> i think our justice system is color blind. >> i think there are many people who go out and shoot other people who are black and they should other people who are black and they are not charged. >> clearly ground for civil rights charges here. >> civil rights needs to be talked about, but not in the context of the george zimmerman verdict. >> america has to dig deep in their heart to try to find out how we, as a society, can learn from this tragedy.

>> george zimmerman found not guilty on all charges. the verdict has raised many questions. what went wrong with the prosecution case and what wrong right with the defense. only the jurors now. joining me now, paul henderson and defense attorney karen desoto. thanks for joining me on this big news day. pa paul, i'm going to start with you. the white house just released a statement from president obama which reads in part, i know this case has elicited strong passions and i know in the wake of verdict i know those mags hes may be running higher. but we are a nation of lawes and a jury has spoken. >> i think as a prosecutor i'm frustrated and i'm frustrated

when whenever there is a victim and the family sufferes a loss. i think the bigger issue in this trial is the voice of concern from many disenfranchised communities that feel like the criminal justice system failed them. i've been a prosecutor and litigator for a long time. i believe the system works best when everybody is at the table and inclusive. in this case, i believe the voices we are hearing criticizing this case is because they didn't feel like all of their voice has heard. this was a very difficult case from the beginning given facts and evidence that the prosecution had. i think they did a very competent job of the case. i think the criticism and concern we are hearing from people is the aspect of race that they wanted introduced. that they wanted people to talk about the issuees. at least have the presentation made which would have reflected

that their voices were being heard and that that should have been part of the contemplation in addition to the evidence that was on the table. i think that's what's going on. >> karen, i want to talk specifically in the charges. yesterday when the jury brought the question about manslaughter in and there was a real thought the direction they would go, what is the burden, in your judgment, that did not get that in terms of whether it is manslaughter or second degree murder? >> we don't know what went on back there but obviously self-defense is a complete defense. so even though that point we were thinking, maybe they moved on to the lesser included offense. but maybe they were just trying to read through it and it was, i think we can agree that jury instructions were confusing. >> right. when you're talking about reasonable doubt and talking about this case, when we heard closings, they were very moving and passionate. but theorist case was not very

cohesive and we were left with more questions than answers. that left reasonable doubt. so no one is saying guilty or not guilt oo, maybe the jury is saying there just wasn't enough evidence. >> the prosecution's burden of proof, seems like from the beginning of this case, almost like sort of reverse. i put this to you and karen. and part of that is stand your ground law. even though this wasn't a stand your ground case. but it seems like the prosecution never kind of add that narrative. but also kind of never met -- they were were on defense, it felt like, instead of offense from the beginning. >> i think that's absolutely correct. the defense put out assertions of innocence and versions of how their cloiant was not guilty. and in addition put out versions and colored, no pun intended, presentation of evidence, with the racial issues.

so i think the prosecution from the beginning was fighting against that evidence. fighting against those different versions of the stories. and fighting against the portrait they were portraying of trayvon martin as a ne fairus character, that should make the jury nervous. that's why i always feel like people felt watching the trial, when are they going to address these issues. when are they going to talk about the fact that there's this contemplated approach to trayvon martin that is not justified. someone say it. someone give that a voice. someone stand for trayvon martin and say, what about him being allowed to self-defense? >> it was difficult because one of the things is that you couldn't directly combat. you can't say race. you had to do it by inference.

so even though there were inferences, no one could say racial profile ppg we have laws of evidence and we have to lay a foundation and we to do all of that before we are allowed to bring that in. in this case, there is no smoking word, no use of the n word, no confederate flag. he wasn't a member of the kkk. there was just never enough to get over that. even though you know in some of the cases, with minorities, with the hispanic and black community. you know in your gut. but your gut isn't enough. >> even with the comments he made, "they always get away", that isn't enough? >> so is he referring to black people or criminals or just talking about kids in the neighborhood? it wasn't clear. it wasn't like he said these black kids, or hispanic kids. it wasn't a direct -- >> or direct enough. >> and in your heart you may know that maybe that is what it was. >> but it was too general to

label the racial profiling p. that's what is so disturbing. you know in your gut what the person must be thinking. but you can't get into somebody's head and this is one of the aspect of racial profiling that you have to combat. >> you were in the courthouse when the verdict was read. give us a sense of what it was like in the courtroom. >> could you feel the verdict when it was read. the emotions were so palpable. you had one family who burst into relief. george zimmerman's wife burst into tears and started hugging her parents. you could see her relaxing after a year and a half. then the family of trayvon martin. they looked disappointed. they walk out of courtroom just as soon as they could. and you could just feel the disappointment as they just walked out while george zimmerman's family stayed a while and let the verdict

process and hug themselves. >> what about the jurors? obviously we don't know their identities and won't unless they choose to come forward. i'm curious what their reaction was as it was read and they saw the reaction of both sides in the courtroom. >> so i looked at the jurors really closely. because i wanted to be able to know what the jurors looked like when the jurors were read. one woman who has been designed as nonwhite said, looked really upset, to be honest, really upset. her mouth was turned up. not to say she was trying but she looked upset. other women looked concerned. concerned at understanding of weight of their decision. one woman just looked like i know that this verdict is right. she was looking dead ahead. you could just tell she knew this verdict is the verdict she believed in. >> i with a want to talk about the post verdict press conferences.

obviously don west, from the beginning, with his knock-knock joke, a lot of us thought it was inappropriate quite frankly, and that came back around in the press conference after the trial. we will take a licesten to that >> this became personal. there were jabs and we watched as things got heated between you and judge nelson. can you talk about what this is like for you these trials the last few weeks. >> this trial is about george zimmerman. not about pictures of ice cream cones. i still think the joke is funny. i'm sorry about that. i'm sorry i didn't tell it better. >> karen, i'm sorry i didn't tell it better. there is an opportunity to be more gracious. you won. you didn't have to rub it in and it was a stupid joke. >> it was inappropriate because it was such a serious subject matter. but one thing that happens when you're in trial, you're around the people a lot, there is a

comfort zone so you want to break the ice or break the flow of things. i think that's what he's tempted to do. that this is a murder case after young boy. >> yeah. >> so he wanted to change it up, change the flow. it is his turn. sometimes you make mistakes or do things that are inappropriate and thank god juries are very forgiving. >> apparently. if you are george zimmerman. >> paul, it is interesting because we talked about race a lot at beginning of the trial tp not much during the trial. it came up toward the end in the closing arguments. we have sound that we're going to play and i want to get your reaction. >> the prosecution raised this question about whether the outcome is different if the race of the defendant and the victim were different. do you think it was different if george zimmer machb was black?

>> i think things would have been different if george zimmerman was black for this reason -- he would have never been charged with a a crime. >> i found that stunning. and i felt like it was reechoed by the comments of george zimmerman's brother when he was talking about, well black people shoot each other in chicago all the time. how we could hear those things and yet this wasn't about race? such a disconnect for me. >> it is. onlily insensitive but infuriating to an audience watching the trial. and i'm not just talking about black people. i've gotten hundreds of thousands of messages at this point for people who are upset about the race issue. because they wanted to hear that conversation. i'm not sure whether or not that would have been outcome determi determinative for this trail. but the defense is raising the issues very carefully and very

pointedly and very purposefully from the beginning of the trial through the end of the trial. and that that conversation is not taking place. and the fact that people didn't hear the conversation about race, and didn't hear the presentation about how raised an implication on zimmerman and why he behaved, even at some points in the trial as black people come up and testify or you heard testimony about other black people, no one was connecting those dots and saying, hey, that's inappropriate. hey, we don't like that. hey, you're profiling. and i know we had rulings about racial profiling, but those rulings didn't cover everything about race and i think that's frustration you see echoed when you hear comments like that from the defense. especially as they were trying to margealize specifically and saying it was a disgrace that there was prosecution at all. that's a real challenge and real frustration and why people feel marginalized by this process and feel very strongly about this

whole case and it polarized a whole lot of people. >> we are going to be right back. our panel will stay with us. and thanks to yamish from usa today from sharing your report from sanford. karen and paul will stay here and we will be right back. >> as my family has said, this has definitely been a tragedy. but coming from this tragedy has been the movement. which we are and we would love it to be more awareness and now it is not just a few people in stanford that know about it, but it is everyone. so we are proud of that. [ female announcer ] made just a little sweeter... because all these whole grains aren't healthy unless you actually eat them ♪ multigrain cheerios. also available in delicious peanut butter. healthy never tasted so sweet.

thanks for staying with us. we are going shift gears now in our conversation on the zimmerman trial and talk about where things go from here. specifically regarding a civil

trial. we've heard conversations about whether or not what the fbi investigation. and the martin family. so we're going to bring back our legal panel. we have he can fence attorney karen desoto and paul henderson still here with me. karen, i want your thought about a civil -- bringing a civil suit and the justice department in terms of some time ago we did hear from eric bolder about the burp brurden of /* /- burden of proof. >> we have the department of justice maybe on the civil rights statute. the difficult with that is we have seen this in cases with police officers when they were under, when we call color of state law and it has been very effective with having police officers that were not successful if state court but bought the federal civil rights statutes. do have you a case here in it appears after the trial that

there is an lot of evidence that will point towards that. but maybe their investigation will give new evidence or more factors. again, he wasn't a police officer acting under the color of state law. that may be difficult and again, we are in the position of, is there enough information, is there enough fact to meet that burden. >> in this instance, since racial profiling was something they couldn't talk about in this case, in a federal case, could they bring that in as an element? >> just as difficult as far as bringing those. you still need the facts. that's the problem with these cases and with self-defense cases in general. who started it? who is the aggressor? you don't know. it is usually in the context after bar fight and who is looking at who. and without this smoking gun. without having some information that you know, was a little bit more profound and not general statements like curse words and expletives, that's one of the

difficulties. >> we just gat statement from the department of justice and i'm going to read that to you. and this is their explanation or possibility of a civil rights suit. experienced federal prosecutors will determine whether the evidence reveals a prosecutable violation of any of the limited federal criminal civil rights statutes within our jurisdiction and whether federal prosecution is appropriate in accordance with the department's policy governing successful federal prosecution follow stagt trial. paul, i want your feedback here. it also strikes me that part of the decision with dojs, they have to do their investigation, then decide do they want to take on a decision made by a jury and by the state. >> right. as she was just saying, this will be a tough case. the real issue is trying to prove what was zimmerman's state of mind. though a lot of people say, they know and they could tell, that's not the issue. the issue, is what can you

prove? i think the real pathway is they want to see what comes out of that civil case. he will be forced to be on the stand and forced to answer difficult questions and new evidence may come up that may indicate that this is a more prosecutable opportunity for the federal government. and then that will feed into what the options are for the doj. >> and that information may come from the wrongful death action. >> it may. >> because that's when you're forced to testify. you may be able to take portions of that. >> so that's the other question. in terms after civil suit, talk about -- it is a very different procedure. >> very different standard too. >> talk about that. >> a lot of people in the situations like with the o.j. simpson case, the browns were successful in proving he was responsible for the death of two people. they didn't collect a dime, unfortunately. wrongful death suites of great. but a lot of times people who

don't have the money to prosecute them. and when you win, you still lose because you don't collect. so it is more aggravation for the family, i think. >> the other piece of this is, we also heard mark o'mara saying that essentially, if someone were to try to bring a civil suit that they would have immunity for their client, so what would that process look like? >> the immunity is limited. it is very clear that this is what the family wants and my understanding is they have filed some sort of suit and this is what a lot of the voices in the community want. we're not sure what the result of that is going to be. what he will say on the stand. how he will answer. but right now, there is still very little evidence which is what made this case hard in the first place. there is just two people there. only one of them is alive and

given his different versions of what occurred, until we can nail that down, it makes it very different to predict what kind of efd you have use? a civil rights suit that has to go in some ways beyond what the criminal evaluation is to get further into zimmerman's mind, to try and prove a specific intent as it relates to civil rights violation. it is an up hill battle. there is a possibility and i think everyone now is so focused on remaining positive. i'm encourages that family is communicating and everyone is supportive of the justice system itself and are using the tools and means of the courts and lawyers effectively and an expected outcome that could be different. so we have to wait and see. >> karen, on our program yesterday, we had naacp president and ceo say, regardless of what happens in this initial verdict, there is a process that can still continue in terms after civil suit. and it sounds like that will be

pursued. and the last question i want to get in here, in terms after wrongful death suit, given the criticism, and anyone watching msnbc, with all of the advice, i don't know why the prosecution wasn't paying attention, but there is an opportunity to make up for the narrative and weave things together. >> a civil suit, it is preponderance. that's how families are able to win this type of case if they have the money to hire the cases in the first place. which is another whole story. but yeah, can you get lots of great information. after the criminal trial is over, you find more people will come forward and give statements and maybe give more information that you wouldn't normally have under the constraint of criminal law and our rules of efd thvide that doesn't allow prejudicial

stuff. >> thank you for your time. appreciate your analysis. >> thanks for having us. >> coming up, we have to look into the debate for gun safety in this country. you're watching "disrupt" on msnbc. she's seen it too. oh this could be trouble. [ sentra lock noise ] oh man. gotta think fast, herbie. back pedal, back pedal. [ crowd cheering ] oh, he's down in flames and now the ice-cold shoulder. one last play... no, game over! gps take him to the dog house. [ male announcer ] make a powerful first impression. the all-new nissan sentra. ♪

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don't go anywhere. we have much more disrupt ahead. tell us your reaction it last night's verdict. we will be right back. all business purchases. so you can capture your receipts, and manage them online with jot, the latest app from ink. so you can spend less time doing paperwork. and more time doing paperwork. ink from chase. so you can. [ tap ] ♪ 'cause tonight [ tap ] ♪ we'll share the same dream

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stand your ground laws go from here and how does that fit no a broader conversation in our country about the gun debate and gun violence. let's bring in our guest, shannon watts. she is from gun sense in america. lisa graves, publisher of alec expose org and former prosecutors ken pattic p. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> ken, i want it start with you. you're the speexpert here on florida law. why did the defense choose not to pursue stand your ground in this case? >> if i was the defense attorney, i would have said not to claim it either. one world is the court of ethics and morality which basically saw a young boy walking home with a bag of candy talking on his cell phone and pursued by a man armed with a fireman who shot and killed him. in that court, many people, including specifically black

americans, believe that zimmerman is clearly wrong. the other world is the court of law. the jury had one thing to consider. was there reasonable doubt based on the evidence presented. i believe we have these two worlds and they collided partly due to stand your ground law. because i believe that that separated out these two things and this is why we have a problem and the defense clearly didn't want the stand your ground law applied in this case. they didn't want a judge making a decision. possibly losing. that is an elected judge. and if it is unlikely a judge would rule and dismiss a case of this type in this situation. they didn't want to use that. they wanted to go to the jury, and it worked. >> to some degree, if you live in a community or state where you have stand your ground laws, i would imagine that impacts how you perceive the situation when you're in the situation and you have a gun and you think you're

being threatened even though it may not be ultimately the way you go with your case, correct? >> to ken, sorry? >> sorry. >> yes. i totally agree with that. that is why i'm saying, there is a separate of the worlds. normally as a homicide prosecutors, when i go into court, i have ethics and the law on my side. but george zimmerman having taken these classes, he is under the belief he can take this gun, go to places he is allowed to be, profile people in a hoody, then we have the end result. it is not a mistake that the florida prosecuting association, representing all of the prosecutors in florida, want the law repealed. there is a reason for that. it should be looked at closely as it why the people with law enforcement want the law

repealed in florida. >> lisa, let's talk about this. it is not just in florida. let's talk about the stand your ground laws, now in 25, 30 states, a study in 2012 by the tampa bay times which showed that a defendant who uses stand your ground is more likely to prevail if the victim is black. that sparked a accusation bit civil rights commission. we have these laws all over the place. ken is talking about a desire it repeal them in florida. how do we deal with them now that they are everywhere? >> this is a law pushed in florida by the nra and ratified by the alec, a group funded by some of the biggest corporations in the world. once alec ratified that law they helped push it into law in 24 states, basically in its entirely, and another ten states. other piece of the law that hasn't been discussed is that if the defendant chooses to assert

it, in that law in a civil suit, if the family does not prevail, for instance, if in this case in florida, if trayvon's family does not prevail in a civil suit and this claim is invoked, under that law, they would be required to pay george zimmerman's attorneys fees an lost wages. it would require the victim's family to pay the killer. and pay for the killer's wages. that's the law in over two dozen states in this country now. >> obviously that creates something of a check on having to think, do i really want to bring a civil case. if we don't have facts and we think we will lose, dewe don't want to pay the level bills and we have other legal bills. shannon, you work for regulation of guns. how do we balance that? we have a number of laws in place. this is a gun culture in this

country. how do we balance for people who legally carry them and make sure that we keep our kids and our community safe? . >> there is a child or teen shot and killed in this country every 3 hours 15 minutes. i don't think a lot of americans realize that. we have created a culture that is killing our children and teens, in addition to the 30,000 americans killed every year. we have to do something to change the culture. moms against guns started days after the standee hook shootings. we have 40 chapters across the country in 40 states. so it is time for moms to wake up. it is time for moms to stand their ground. and to say, we will not allow these lax and lenient laws that are resulting in the shooting deaths of our children. and if we get together, which 80 million strong, which we are in

this country, this is no one partisan and common sense reform, we will get it. but we have to act. >> we have to act. we have to understand as lisa pointed out, where the laws come from. and then as ken hopefully helped us, how they are then applied or not applied, utilized at the local level. thank you lis. mmmm, nice car. there's no doubt, that's definitely gonna throw him off. she's seen it too. oh this could be trouble. [ sentra lock noise ] oh man. gotta think fast, herbie. back pedal, back pedal. [ crowd cheering ] oh, he's down in flames and now the ice-cold shoulder. one last play... no, game over! gps take him to the dog house. [ male announcer ] make a powerful first impression. the all-new nissan sentra. ♪ a regular guy with an irregular heartbeat.

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that was amateur cell phone footage of oscar grant just before he was fatally shot in the black by a transit officer in oakland, california. he was unarmed and handcuffed at the time he was shot. three men were pulled off the tram. the officers who killed grant served a year in county jail for involuntary manslaughter. he said he meant to pull out a taser instead of his gun. multitude of john looks went viral. we have a story after young black man who did not deserve to die. oscar grant's story is now the subject after feature film fruitville station by first time director ryan coug letter, who

i'm so thrilled joins me now. ryan, to great to see you. >> you too, karen. >> you felt a personal connection to oscar's story. can you talk about that and also talk about the use of social media? i know that is part of what got you into the case. >> yes. the story of oscar grant was very partial to me. because i was in the bay area when it happened. i was the same age as oscar. 22 as well as he was at that time. a place i was born and raised in. i had a direct familiarity with the area and when i saw the footage, i couldn't help but see myself in oscar and my friend and his friends. he looked like me. wore the same kinds of clothes. i've been in the same situation. i thought it was a tragedy that people didn't talk about his humanity. they talked about the push/pull of the case. a lot of people wanted to make him out to be either a saint or horrible sinner. no one talked about the 22-year-old guy didn't make it home to the people he loved the most. it was an unnecessary situation

where he lost his life. >> to some people i think the story will sound familiar. one of the things i love about the film and we have talked about this, is that you humanize oscar, warts and all. i want to read what the new york times wrote. the radicalis imof fruitville station lies precisely here in its refusal to nearly every black man whether or not he is president, tends to be. you know, one of the things that i loved about this film is that you really did try to portray him as a real person. talk a little bit about how you were able to create this composite view of oscar. >> well, the first thing i had access to making the film was just that the court documents,

things said back and forth in the case and people on different sides of theis dent. once the family signed over the life rights to the company, i had access to them. it was interesting getting to know people in the relationships that oscar was closest to. the way they know us is through a 360 degree portrait. they know the good things and things that we struggle with. oscar had things he struggled with. and so i wanted to take into account all of the things he was dealing with in his life. >> i love the fact that it again it is so easy to make it one way or the another. you're right, that by talking to his friends, you got 360 degree look at this person. we have a clip from the film, so let's take a look. >> job? >> i could slap you right now.

what are you going to do? >> just go out for 30 days. how long -- >> ryan, a beautiful film you have created and that scene in particular i think captures, you know, again this is a person struggling with a lot of different things. and frankly so tragically trying to turn his life around just before he was killed. >> thanks so much, karen, i really appreciate that. >> all right, ryan cooglor, thanks for joining me. the film is "fruitville station." go and see this film. it is well worth your time. coming up, why we avoid the conversation america needs to have about race.

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trayvon martin case raised questions on all sides. why are we so afraid to talk openly about these issues? joining me to talk about it are msnbc contributor jonathan capehart. jonath jonathan, it was alluded to in the closing statements. but what struck me is more broadly as a culture we have trouble talking about race. despite the fact we have a black president. some say we are post racial, which we know we are not. why is this is hard subject to talk about?

>> there was red since on the part of the prosecution. the judge ruled you couldn't talk about it. the prosecution wanted to say that trayvon martin was racially pro filed. but they said, take out racially and just say pro filed and people will know what you mean. >> i think the reason we can't have this conversation as. >> a nation is because when you talk about race, race is a very intimate conversation. it requires trust. there is so much mistrust, misunderstanding, hard feelings. preconceived notions and only way i can bridge that gap and close that divide is if two people who know each other very well, trust each other and trust each other's motivations that you can have that conversation and unfortunately there are a lot of people on both side of the divide for whom there is no

trust. >> mike, what strikes me, we talk about sex. that is all over the place. that's an intimate subject as well. this is an issue, that again, think about the changing demographics of this country. it is like a steam roller coming in at us. we have to find a way to have this conversation. there's been a lot of talk about maybe moving forward. how the positive impact that this case could have. could this help spark a conversation? >> it could, karen, it could. >> bill clinton tried. >> bill clinton tried. i was impressed with the comments ben gellis made, talking about the positives he believed came out of this and the younger generation seeking to put this kind of thing behind us. behind america. but i think the answer to your initial question, is it is too

painful. the truth is too hard. too difficult for a lot of people. people want, and i'm not saying this as an excuse, i'm saying this as an explanation, right? >> yeah. >> but people want stories that make them feel good about themselves, about our country, and especially in the legal room especially as it pertains to young black men and teenagers. racial divide is palpable and real and practically unbridgeable. doesn't matter who the president is. every member of the senate could be african-american and every member of the house and this would not change. and people just don't really want to face up to it. >> yeah, to that point, jonathan, ben was talking about the peaceful nature of the protest and young people coming forward. i know the judge initially said no racial profiling but profiling. part of what strikes me here is, the way we got through civil

rights movement, the way movements move forward is a willingness to have conversation, to listen to one another and you, of all people, have written so eloquently about, you know, the lessons you were told as a young black man about how to conduct yourself. and it strikes me sharing that kind of experience. there might have been a way in this case to share that kind of experience, what it is like to be pro filed. but also sharing, you know, across the racial divide. that's part of the way we have to have this conversation. >> yes. in that courtroom, i just don't think there was room to do it. you don't think that mark o'mara and don west would have gone whole hog on the racial area if they could, overdo it? i think they would. but outside of the courtroom p the court of public opinion and in living rooms and restaurants and dining room tables across the country, if people could

have enough time to sit down and talk to someone from another race about what -- okay, why does this case resonate so much for you. karen, when i wrote that first piece after trayvon martin was killed, talking about those rules that my mother told me, i was very moved by the number of people for whom that was the first time they ever heard anything like that. >> sure. >> one colleague said to me, i have kids, 16, 13 years old, it would never occur to me to tell them not to run in public. that's just foreign to me. the idea that that kind of conversation was sparked by that piece was a helpful moment for me. i think the reaction so far to the not guilty verdict is a hopeful sign. i think the country is ready to continue the conversation. this isn't a conversation that stops, it keeps going. >> you know, mike, about the

conversations with our young people, defense attorney mark o'mara brought up remarks, and we don't have time to plate sound, but it feelt like he was giving the jury p permission, that it is okay that george zimmerman may have pro filed this young man. that is a part that a frightening to a lot of people. not just parents who are african-american. white, asian, you name it. that's not the america they want for their kids. as a parent, how are you talking about this to your child? >> well, my child is 3. she is not quite ready. if she were older, i would try to explain to her a version of what jonathan was just saying. realities for black and white parents in this country are so divergeant. there are things that i know, my daughter won't have to worry about. there are certain types of suspicions that she's just not

going to come under. and that doesn't make me comfortable. it doesn't make me proud as an america. it is a fact. and it is very, very different for black families and white families to understand it. >> sorry, guys, we have to leave it there. jonathan, michael, thank you so much. that does it for me. thanks for joining us. please don't forget to share your thoughts. find us on facebook and tweet us. don't go anywhere. "the ed show" is up next. softsprings got both, let me show you. right over here. here, feel this. wow, that's nice. wow. the soft carpets have never been this durable. you know i think we'll take it. get kid-friendly toughness and feet-friendly softness, without walking all over your budget. he didn't tell us it would do this. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. right now, get whole-home installation for just 37 bucks.

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