he or she will be your best bet to see the truth of what actually happened. so we're at it again, questioning a jury's judgment. i always thought the judgment in the o.j. case was really about the bad old history of the l.a. police. hopefully it did some good, that judgment. the verdict i didn't share. well, maybe this one will achieve the same in the end, a good result. at least for the future. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. thanks, chris, and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, inside the jury room. the woman known as juror b37 reveals what went on behind closed doors during the george zimmerman murder trial. in a national tv show on cnn, she offered surprising new details about how the six women on that jury reached their not guilty verdict. >> did you take an initial vote

to see where everybody was? >> we did. >> so where was everybody -- how was that first vote? >> we had three not guilties, one second-degree murder, and two manslaughters. >> half the jury initially thought mr. zimmerman was guilty of some crime, but 16 hours later, they brought back a verdict saying he was not guilty on all counts. throughout this tv interview, juror b37 seemed to accept his version of events. >> i think george zimmerman is a man whose heart was in the right place but just got displaced by the vandalism in the neighborhoods and wanting to catch these people so badly that he went both and beyond what he really should have done. but i think his heart was in the right place. it just went terribly wrong.

i think pretty much it happened the way george said it happened. george had a right to protect himself at that point. >> so you believe that george zimmerman really felt his life was in danger? >> i do. i really do. no doubt george feared for his life. >> at the same time, juror b37 seemed to accept the defense view that trayvon martin was acting suspicious, and that he started the fight. >> and anybody would think anybody walking down the road, stopping and turning and looking, if that's exactly what happened, is suspicious. trayvon decided that he wasn't going to let him scare him and get the one over up on him or something. and i think trayvon got mad and attacked him. >> joining me now are former prosecutor faith jenkins and prosecutor paul henderson. thank you both for being here.

paul, what struck you most about this juror's story? >> what struck me most was how much they adopted the defense perspective and how empathetic they were to zimmerman's versions of the story. to me, what i came away with was this prosecution was almost dead in the water from jury selection. and that doesn't mean that they should not have continued and obviously they did. but hearing her sentiments and hearing that her sentiments were echoed with the rest of the jury pool, you know, i'm sure the prosecution, if they are reviewing this and listening to her, is very affected by hearing -- >> when you say dead on the water, dead in the water, let me push you on that. so you're saying that this juror and possibly other jurors already had made up their mind they believed george zimmerman coming in? >> well, i believe from what she

was saying in the interview that it was very clear that from the very beginning, at the very introduction of all of the evidence, that they were -- they believed that story, that they believed zimmerman's approach. they used a lens, right? so when you're looking at the evidence, there is two ways to look at it. the people that believed in the defense, the people that believed in the prosecution, they heard the exact same evidence and they took it in differently. it's clear from what she was saying last night, the leps she used, she absolutely believed the defense perspective, so much so she was filling in the gaps, and the jury had to have filled in the rest of the gaps to presume that trayvon was mad, to have presumed that say von threw the first punch, to presume that zimmerman had the right to defend himself, but trayvon martin did not have the right to defend himself in any context of this situation. that was a real -- that was surprising. >> faith, did this juror have her mind made up in her opinion? because she did as paul said

fill in blanks. there was no evidence that said trayvon was stopping and starting suspiciously. that all came from zimmerman there is no evidence that trayvon threw the first blow. by filling in the holes as paul said, do you think she made up her mind to the point where she actually just went along with the scenarios that was coming out of zimmerman's mouth? >> what paul is saying is every possible inference that she could draw in this trial, she drew it towards the defense. >> right. >> every possible inference. very much so pro defense. when she made that decision, i don't know, but according to -- when i watched the interview last night, i agreed with paul. i knew when i heard what she was saying, the state never had a chance with this particular juror. every possible inference. this is not a juror who said the state didn't prove their case. they didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt zimmerman did not act with self-defense. she said i believed that trayvon martin attacked george

zimmerman. i believed that he had no other choice but to defend himself. she called him george several times throughout the interview, completely relating to him, identifying with him. it was very telling when i heard her last night, because she clearly, clearly bought into george zimmerman's story from the very beginning. >> now, paul, she also talked about how stand your ground played a key role in their decision. watch this. >> because of the heat of the moment and the stand your ground. he had a right to defend himself. if he felt threatened, that his life was going to be taken away from him, or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right. >> so even though it was he who had gotten out of the car, followed trayvon martin, that didn't matter in the deliberations. what mattered was those final seconds, minutes when there was an alterer indication, and whether or not in your mind what the most important thing was whether or not george zimmerman felt his life was in danger? >> well, that's how we read the law. that's how we got to the point of everybody being not guilty.

>> now, the clear point there is even though the defense didn't argue stand your ground, she brought up the stand your ground law and talked about he had rights based on stand your ground. so not only did she fill in testimony, she filled in the law. >> she absolutely did. and that's exactly what i took away from it when she made that statement. when she started alluding to stand your ground as one of the reference points that this jury used and that she used to come to her conclusion, that caused me concern, particularly since because stand your law, stand your ground law was not introduced. it was not argued. it was not presented as part of the evidence that they were supposed to use to consider how they evaluated the evidence in the trial. and she was very clear that because of stand your ground laws, that influenced not just her, but the rest of the jury as well. and then the fact that she was focused and said that the moment that she concentrated on was the

moment when he pulled the trigger, that heat of the moment, and how he felt at that time, that he felt that his life was in danger? because that was the key that they used for the rest of their jury instructions to determine that zimmerman was not guilty. that was very interesting. >> but faith, what about the fact -- the thing that struck me is that she almost was passionate about zimmerman's right to defend himself. alluded to stand your ground. but what about trayvon's right? when the interviewer even said to her, well, what about he got out of the car and followed him. why wouldn't you say well, yeah, maybe trayvon had fear. maybe trayvon should defend. it's almost like trayvon had no rights at all. >> in this particular jury's mind, apparently he didn't. she kept going back to i believe george's heart is in the right place. and even when anderson cooper asked her, well, do you feel sorry for trayvon martin, she

said i feel sorry for both of them. well, trayvon is dead. george zimmerman was inconvenienced. he spent a few nights in jail. but she literally could not even make the distinction at that moment. >> no. but she -- that's right. couldn't make the distinction. she acted like they were equal. >> exactly. >> trayvon martin did nothing wrong and was dead. how do you equate that with mr. zimmerman? >> not in her eyes. during the trial, i think the defense did a good job of painting trayvon as this scary person. not only is he scary to george zimmerman, but he should be scary to you too, because this is who he is. and i think that that had an impact on these jurors, and this juror in particular. >> now, paul. >> i think it did. >> the jury, i respect a jury's decision. but there are some things about in this interview with this juror that you've got to really question. >> yeah. at one point she related that zimmerman was only concerned, he wasn't just attacking

zimmerman -- i mean he wasn't attacking trayvon, he was concerned about these people, alluding to the break-ins. any time someone references these people or those people, my ears pick up. and i want a further explanation. i want you to clarify. >> who are these people. >> what is going on. who are the these people. what is the classification you're talking about. i thought it was really very interesting that she says and echoed the same thing that the defense counsel said that this was not about race. so she is saying it's not about race. the rest of the jury said it wasn't about race. the defense attorney said it wasn't about race. and to me that flies almost in the face of the presentation that i felt was made that had allusions to race all throughout the trial. but the fact that she adopted that perspective and the rest of the jurors may have adopted that perspective is part of the reason why i think people are frustrated right now. because they feel even if the race component might not have been outcome determinative for

that trial, communities wanted to hear that that perspective was valued and it was not addressed as well as they thought should it have been, if at all in the trial. >> they directly corrected faith. listen to. this. >> if there was another person, spanish, white, asian, if they came in the same situation where trayvon was, i think george would have reacted the exact same way. >> why do you think trayvon martin found george zimmerman suspicious, then? >> because he was cutting through the back. it was raining. he said he was looking in houses as he was walking down the road, kind of just not having a purpose to where he was going. he was stopping and starting. bu but that's george's rendition of it. >> was that a common rendition on the jury that race did not

play a role in this? >> i think all of us thought race did not play a role. >> race was not argued, but profiling was, faith. >> right. and for this juror and perhaps for others, that racial profiling was a completely foreign concept to her because she could not understand or accept the fact of about these facts and what they meant. and she went on the say that she thinks that george zimmerman would have stopped anyone of any nationality walking through the neighborhood at this point when all of the phone calls that the prosecutors introduced, they were about young black men. >> all that zimmerman had made on the phone calls. >> that's right. every benefit of the doubt in this case, she gave to it george zimmerman. every benefit of the doubt. >> faith jenkins and paul henderson, thank you both for your time. >> thank you. ahead, the attorney general takes a stand against these so-called stand your ground laws, commanding more justice in

our criminal justice system. >> we must stand our ground to ensure that our laws reduce violence and take a hard look at laws that contribute to more violence than they prevent. plus, dramatic protests inside the governor's office in florida. turning anger into action in a peaceful way. also, new pressure for a federal civil rights case against george zimmerman. wait until you hear what the right wing media is saying about it. and remember, friend or foe, i want to know. send me your e-mails. "reply al" is coming. stay with us.

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here is one graphic that has really gotten our facebook community's attention today. it compares how the justice system worked for marissa alexander and how it worked for george zimmerman. one fired a warning shot injuring no one and got 20 years in jail. the other shot and killed an unarmed teenager and was found not guilty. i've got more to say on that, coming up next. but if you want more information on this, you should check out our facebook page. just head over to facebook and search "politicsnation" and like us to join the conversation that keeps going long after the show ends. ♪ it's about where you're going. the new ram 1500. best-in-class 25 mpg. ♪ north american truck of the year. ♪ the truck of texas. better residual value than ford and chevy.

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in george zimmerman wasn't armed that fateful night, it might have just been a fist night. this trial has shined a spotlight on radical gun laws in america, like the so-called stand your ground law. it gives you the right to kill if you feel threatened. and here is the key part. you have no duty to retreat. moments ago, attorney general eric holder talked about the danger these laws pose. >> separate and apart from a case that has drawn the nation's attention, it's time to question laws that senselessly expand the concept of self-defense and sew dangerous conflict in our neighborhoods. these laws try to fix something that was never broken. there has always been a legal defense for using deadly force if -- and the if is important,

if no safe retreat is available. but we must examine laws that take this further by eliminating the common sense and age old requirement that people who feel threatened have a duty to retreat outside their home if they can do so safely. we must stand our ground to insure that our laws reduce violence and take a hard look at laws that contribute to more violence than they prevent. >> we must stand our ground to make sure our laws reduce violence. in 2005, florida became the first state to adopt stand your ground. and since then, some version of the law has gotten on the books in 33 states. it's been systematically pushed by a powerful big business group, the corporate-backed american legislative exchange council known as alec. but there are ways to fight back. today activists in florida helped show the way, staging a

peaceful protest at governor rick scott's office, demanding that stand your grand be overturned. and that's why we're standing together in 100 cities this saturday. joining me now is zachary carter, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of new york, and joy reid, an msnbc contributor and managing editor of thegrio.com. thank you both for being here. >> great to be here. >> good to be here. >> joy, you covered the stand your ground law extensively. will this trial be enough to change that law? >> well, rick scott put out a statement today saying that he recognizes that there were protests, and he said that's great. people have the right to protest, acknowledging he created a task force after the trayvon martin shooting and the task force recommend nod changes, and he supports the task force's finding. right now there is no momentum at least in the legislature or the governor's mansion to change the law. however, there is a governor's elect coming up in 2014. this should probably be an issue for everyone who is running. because the point is before

stand your ground, before 2005, the jury in the trayvon martin/george zimmerman trial would have been instructed that had george zimmerman been able to avoid the conflict or flee from the conflict, meaning don't follow someone, he then would have gotten an instruction that would have allowed the jury to find a way to convict. but stand your ground provision basically, in the words of dan gelber who voted against it, it's almost like the stupid, reckless uncivil behavior. you can provoke, start a fight, shoot someone dead and claim self-defense. >> zachary carter, we talked about this law a lot when this case started and dealt with alec a lot. in 2005, the jury instruction was the saying, quote, the fact that the defendant was wrongfully attacked cannot justify his use of force likely to cause death or great bodily harm. and by retreating, he could have avoided the need to use that force. what joy was referring to. but after stand your ground, the

law reads if george zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had the right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had to write to stand his ground. and this jury, the only one that has gone public so far, actually in the interview she did, talked about stand your ground and the law. so this had a direct impact on this trial, zachary carter, even though it wasn't argued. >> well, it had a direct impact on the trial, but it shouldn't have. and one of the problems in this case is that there appeared to have been on the part of the prosecution and to some part on the court an insensitivity to race. there was a squeamishness about dealing with that directly. it permeated every part of the case beginning with the voir dire price of selecting the jury

there should have been searching questions that would have reduced the likelihood that somebody who harbored those strong preconceived notions about stand your ground could have been seated on the jury in the first place. now, it's possible that she was asked those questions and was not necessarily forthcoming. but at least those questions needed to be asked. >> now, the stand your ground protest that many of us have been raising, as i said, for over a year, hit pop culture now. listen what stevie wonder said last night. >> i decided today that until the stand your ground law is abolished in florida, i will never perform there again. as a matter of fact, wherever i

find that law exists, he will not perform in that state. >> there is a lot of activities, a lot of us involved. but stevie wonder said i will not perform in states withstand your ground law. with the activism we see from students today, clergy, pop culture icons like stevie wonder, will that create a different kind of political climate going into a political year, joy, in the state of florida? >> i think those kinds of things can work there is pressure if nabj is going to continue. >> nabj, the national association of black journalists. >> exactly. orlando attracts a lot of conventions, central florida does. you can actually begin to hurt a state by doing these kinds of actions. look, it's also a matter of safety. the people have to understand what alec and the nra are doing, the group that writes these laws, what they want to do is three things. they want to sell more guns. they also want to expand the

places you can carry a gun, because they want to break down the pro exhibition, the self o prpro if fear is if i shoot somebody by mistake and thinking they're going to rob me, oh my god, they weren't, will i go to jail? alec's role is to roll back anything that would inhibit a rational, reasonable person from getting and carrying and even discharging a firearm. it's almost creating a wild west atmosphere where they're saying take your gun anywhere you want, into a bar, into school, into church. and if you discharge it, we're going create a web of laws that will protect you from the law. >> now exactly, carter. let me go back to this juror we talked about in the last segment. you saw her interview. as a prosecutor, as one who has listened and talked to a lot of jurors down through the years, what disturbed you, if anything, about what she said? because you talked about the prosecution. because we were introduced to

her, found out she has a lawyer as a husband, that there was a book deal. i mean, there are some questions about this juror that has been raised. do any of those questions bother you? >> a number of them bother me. the first that she cited to legal authority that was not charged as part of the legal instructions that were delivered by the court in this case. and the fact that she is married to a lawyer could help explain that. it's one of the reasons why personally i've always been adverse to permitting if i could help it through the use of my peremptory challenges having a lawyer sit on a jury, because i would prefer not to have anybody with real or pretended expertise on any important matter at issue in a trial, sitting on the jury, because they may be hardened in their views and they may be

unnecessarily or inordinately influential on other juries. my husband says the law is thus and therefore it must be. and rather than asking for the judge to explain or re-explain the law, they rely on the juror who says, well, my husband is a lawyer, and therefore the law must be thus and so. so that's one problem. but the most important problem for me, it must have been frustrating and disappointing for the prosecutors is the extent to which all of her sympathies apparently allayed with george zimmerman and none with trayvon martin. and that means that you would have to regard the presentation to have been at least with respect to this jury utterly ineffective. if you can have a situation in which someone uses a -- an epithet to describe, you know, these a-holes always get away, right. >> and whether you believe he

said f-ing punks or frankly, as i think when you listen to the audio, it sounds likely that he actually says f-ing coons, there is a degree of animus. and if he used the latter epithet, clear racial animus that should not -- that should if anything predispose you against zimmerman. it doesn't mean that you necessarily convict him. but at least you have a sense that this is a person who was motivated, at least initially, with ill intent. let's see how the events unfolded and whether or not there was anything that occurred that may have justified his use of force. but you don't start out with sympathy if you believe someone has shown that kind of antipathy or prejudice toward someone like trayvon martin. >> well, and we hope the justice department looks into all of this, and we're going to talk than later. zachary carter, joy reid, i'm

going to have to hold there it. thank you both for your time. >> thank you. tonight on "all in with chris hayes", we'll have much more on stand your ground, as well as the case of marissa alexander, which we have cover on this show. that's tonight at 8:00 p.m. here on msnbc. still ahead, what about trayvon martin's civil rights not to be profiled? his civil right not to be followed? we'll talk about the potential federal case against george zimmerman. but first, the attorney general's emotional words today about being pulled over driving while black. stay with us. [ male announcer ] a doctor running late for a medical convention loses his computer, exposing thousands of patient records to identity theft. data breaches can happen that easily. we don't believe you should be a victim

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about how as a young black man i should interact with the police, what to say and how to conduct myself if i was ever stopped or confronted in a way that i thought was unwarranted. the news of trayvon martin's death last year and the discussions that have taken place since then reminded me of my father's words so many years ago. and they brought me back to a number of experiences that i had as a young man when i was pulled over twice and my car searched on the new jersey turnpike when i'm sure i wasn't speeding, or when i was stopped by a police officer while simply running to catch a movie at night in georgetown in washington, d.c. i was at the time of that last incident a federal prosecutor. trayvon's death last spring caused me to sit down, to have a

conversation with my own 15-year-old son. like my dad did with me. this was a father/son tradition i hoped would not need to be handed down. but as father who loves his son and who is more knowing in the ways of the world, i had to do this to protect my boy. >> the highest ranking law enforcement official in the country talking about the kind of injustice faced every day by african-americans in this country. it has to stop. and we'll talk about that next. . today, we'd like people to come together on something that concerns all of us. obesity. and as the nation's leading beverage company, we can play an important role. that includes continually providing more options. giving people easy ways to help make informed choices. and offering portion controlled versions of our most popular drinks. it also means working with our industry

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>> it's been open season on black young men across the country. >> yeah, by other black young men. >> no, by the criminal justice system and the education system. >> no, no, no, that's not true. >> how do you explain the disparity? >> wait a minute. i'm going to have to explain that because he asked me. the disparity comes in high crime districts, okay, where police flood in to protect the citizens and make more arrests than they would in low crime districts. that's how the disparity comes. >> let me show you the real disparity, the facts. one in every 106 white men is incarcerated. but for african-american men, the rate is just 1 in 15. today there are more african-americans on probation, parole, or in prison than there were slaves in 1850. and it's not because of disparities in high crime districts. it's because of a broken system. whites and blacks use marijuana at the same rate, but blacks are four times as likely to be arrested for drug use.

the same crime, a different standard for who is arrested. black offenders receive sentences that are 10% longer than white offenders for the same crimes. so how are those for disparities? it's a justice system that needs to be fixed. joining me now is congressman hakeem jeffreys, democrat from new york. he is a member of the house judiciary committee's overcriminalization task force. they're holding hearings on how to fix this broken system. and joshua dubois. he is a former spiritual adviser to president obama. he wrote a cover story of this very topic titled the fight for black men for a recent issue of "newsweek." thank you both for copping on the show. >> good evening, rev. thank you for having us. >> congressman jeffreys, many people like bill o'reilly, they're like that in that they

ignore the fact that blacks are overrepresented in the criminal justice system. what's your task force doing to change it? >> well, african-americans are overrepresented at every level. we're more likely to be arrested, more likely to be charged, more likely to be prosecuted, and more likely to be convicted and then get longer sentences for the same offense as you pointed out. under the house judiciary committee's chairmanship, chairman goodlight has to his credit appointed a task force that is bipartisan in nature, five democrats, five republicans. both of us charged with the responsibility of looking at the reality of overcriminalization. in america, more than a million people incarcerated. a disproportionate number of those individuals african-american are more incarcerated people in america than any other country in the

world as a proportion of our population. it is costly from the standpoint of the loss of economic productivity and human capital. it has a devastating impact in the city communities, predominated by african-americans and latinos. and we've been charged with the responsibility over the next six months to look at ways in which we can deal with this overcriminalization dynamic in america. >> now, joshua, you know, one of the things that i'm trying to do out of this trial is not just deal with just a trial, but raise the big broad issues that really play into all of this and put a spotlight on him. for example, it's not just a current system, it's a system facing black youth. a white male born in 2001 has a 6% chance of spending time in prison. but a black male born in that same year has a 32% chance of spending time in prison. >> that's exactly right. it's a vicious cycle, reverend

sharpton. it starts really early on. those same rates, those same disproportionate rates are applicable to the rates of suspension and expulsion from school. the way that we approach young black men is through a climate of fear, not unlike how george zimmerman approached trayvon martin, a climate of suspicion. and that starts in our elementary schools and in our middle schools. and by the time they reach high school and college, as you said, and as the congressman said as well, we're incarcerating them at much higher rates than everyone else. i do think it starts early. it starts in our earliest grades. >> now congressman, it's policies like in new york, we have a policy of stop and frisk that are a big part of this unjust system. and it doesn't even work. in 2012, the new york police department conducted over 533,000 stops. 85% of the stops were black and

latino, and 89% of them were totally innocent. it's not even a good crime-fighting policy. >> it's not a good crime-fighting policy in any way, shape, or form. the overwhelming majority of people who are stopped, questioned and frisked has no gun, no weapon, no drugs, no contraband, nothing at all. and what it also does, reverend sharpton, as you know, it poisons the relationship between the police and the community, because the community views the police for good reason often as a hostile conquering entity that views innocent law-abiding individuals as potential criminals. so where there should be cooperation, there is great contention. and that's a significant problem. it's unfortunate. but it's symbolic of the notion that african-americans generally and in particular african-american men tend to be viewed from a suspicious criminal lens, very different than any other person in america. >> joshua, in fact, if you would

want young black men to grow up trusting police, looking up to police, wanting to be one. look at what your black youth stay about stop and frisk. let me give you an example. >> a lot of times i ask them what is the reason for you stopping me. they don't have an answer for me. they say just turn around. >> why me? i didn't do anything. i'm just cruising by. how could they mistake me for someone else? >> when i do get stopped, it makes me feel like i have no type of rights or anything like that. >> its most dominated you could really feel standing on two feet is having your hands on the wall, having somebody pageant you up and down, and another person surveilling it and watching it and documenting it. >> so you have this hostility that is built up. innocent people that feel they have been criminalized. and then you have another element that goes to jail in disproportionate numbers. and then when they leave jail, you write in your article how the system follows people even after they leave jail. and that is the result. this is your writing. the result of all this is that

is the under-caste. your whole article went to the fact that you build a permanent kind of under-caste that very few break out. >> that's right. it's really hard to break out. when you return from incars nation, it's that much more difficult to get a job, to get health insurance, to provide for your family. the way to address this is not just to tell the statistics, although that's absolutely shocking. it's to do what you and attorney general holder and so many others do, which is to tell our stories, you know. the reality is that the vast majority of this country thinks the criminal justice system is working just fine. and the only way to break that down is to tell them the real personal stories of the moments when it wasn't working. that's how we humanize these young african-american men. that's how people like george zimmerman don't look at trayvon martin and see a nameless, faceless hoodie, but they see

someone who is a son, who is a brother, who is a student, who has hopes and dreams. i think that's really where the hope and the promise is. >> congressman hakeem jeffreys, and joshua dubois, thank you for coming on the show tonight. this is something we're going to keep a real focus on in the coming weeks and months ahead on this show. coming up, will the justice department file federal civil rights charges against george zimmerman? and the calls to act are growing, and so are the protests across the country. next. hey linda! what are you guys doing? having some fiber! with new phillips' fiber good gummies. they're fruity delicious! just two gummies have 4 grams of fiber! to help support regularity! i want some... [ woman ] hop on over! [ marge ] fiber the fun way, from phillips'.

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i'm back with a simple question. did trayvon martin have a civil right not to be profiled as a criminal? did he have a civil right not to be followed by a man armed with a gun? those are the questions facing the justice department today as it considers whether to file federal civil right charges against george zimmerman for the death of trayvon martin. this morning i along with other

civil rights leaders and clergy rallied at the justice department in washington to call for those charges to be filed. joining me now is joe madison. thanks for being here tonight, joe. >> thank you, reverend. >> joe, why wouldn't this be a civil rights case? >> i really don't know why it wouldn't be a civil rights case. just like the group where you today came to washington, understood it, i was with the naacp in orlando, florida on monday. and i said, you know, trayvon martin had a right to walk in that area of that complex just like vivian malone had a right to walk in to the doors of the university of alabama, just like rosa parks had a right to sit on that bus wherever she wanted to, just like medgar evers had a right to walk on his driveway without being shot down. and that's really, i think, how the justice department should look at it.

and i said this morning that, look, this is not the era of jim crow. but the result is still the same. everyone must have themselves. what did trayvon martin do wrong? that's the question. >> and see -- let me say this also, joe. and as you notice, these cases have happened. we talked about rodney king last night where the police were acquitted in state court, and then the justice department came in and tried them in federal court on civil rights charges and convicted them. right here in new york, anthony baez was choked to death by police. 1996, the officer was acquitted

in state court. then he was convicted of federal civil rights charges. so it has happened. and it has happened where it wasn't as clear a profiling in some of these situations. >> and, you know, everybody is hinging on the fact, well, he didn't use the n-word. he didn't use other kinds of racial epithets. and i agree with attorney carter who you had on. >> right. >> because we played that tape over and over and over. and what he said. and, again, instead of having a cable news station analyze it, let the fbi. >> no one should have better equipment. >> thank you. >> but already we're seeing the news pundits at fox trying to undermine the justice department over the last couple of days. watch this. >> the department of justice, its active involvement in fomenting anti-involvement

florida last year. >> the department of political justice. >> why does it seem the department of justice is taking their marching orders from the new black panther party? >> i mean, this is like a -- >> ridiculous. >> -- effort to discredit the justice department while there are those that would appeal to the justice department to execute what is fair. and as i just named, have done before under other administrations. >> well, and, hey, as you know, and they know it too, these are career attorneys. these are attorneys that are probably there under the bush administration. who knows what administration. >> right. >> and this is not where -- and you know eric holder like i know eric holder. eric holder is not some dictator. as a matter of fact, a lot of times when we try to have discussions with him, what do you plan to do, look, he has to put all these attorneys together. >> right, and they have to come up with a decision. so fox is disingenuous.

>> you've been a long time. >> thank you. >> and say yes and no in a lot of situations. >> absolutely. what they're doing is that they're playing to an audience that doesn't know what you know and what i know and what we're now educating this audience to know, that these decisions are not made in a vacuum. they're not made by a dictator, and oh, and by the way, when the fbi, part of the justice department, went in to sanford, they came out with the conclusion initially that, well, george zimmerman may not be a racist. now how do they respond to that? >> oh, it was already then, but they don't want to see a formal aggressive investigation. joe madison, we've got to go. thank you for your time tonight. we'll be right back with "reply al." angie's list to gauge whether or not the projects will be done in a timely fashion and within budget. angie's list members can tell you which provider is the best in town. you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare. now that we're expecting, i like the fact

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it's time for "reply al." friend or foe, i want to know.

emmet says please, please, leeson do not let it be the end of justice for trayvon. well, i've said from the beginning we must pursue until the end. we're only to plan b. federal will be in 100 cities saturday. but we must also deal withstand your ground. so that we don't have more trayvons. we must deal with the bigger issues to deal with the problem that creates this recklessness. and i'm committed to doing that until we stop. these big problems legislatively from being in place. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. and this program note. tomorrow night i'll be joined by rachel jeantel, a key witness in the zimmerman trial. "hardball" starts right now. >> inside the jury room. let's play "hardball."