if you have eaten your desert before you've eaten your meal, at least with my children, sometimes they don't end up eating their vegetables so we need to, i think, do this with a complete package. >> as the president presses his case for a balanced meal, the senate is also launching its own version of a vegetable offensive. the huffington post reports that the senate gang of 8 is targeting 121 house republicans and speaking to business, agriculture, faith and conservative groups to dial up the pressure. this morning speaker john boehner seemed to welcome those efforts saying that younger members of his caucus seemed to be educated on immigration issues? >> when you look at this, 2/3 of the house members, at least 2/3 of the members have never dealt with this issue. the more information that we have for our members, the better we're going to be able to facilitate dealing with a very thorny issue. >> one of the names on the gang

of eight's target list is paul ryan. democrats hope may emerge as a champion of reform in the house. as evidence, after the republican immigration meeting last week as some members were bashing so called amnesty and insisting no way no how on comprehensive reform, paul ryan repeatedly reminded his conference that the problem is still a problem and needs to be fixed. >> we have a broken system that needs to be fixed and i think we have consensus that the system is broken and it needs to be fixed. it needs to be fixed. it needs to be fixed. there is an emerging consensus that it's broken and there's a consensus we need to fix it. >> it needs to be fixed. joining me, "time magazine's" newly minted washington bureau chief, pop a bottle, michael cherrer. washington post columnist, e.j. dionne, "new york times" economy reporter, a any any ie lowrie is

on set and michael steel. chair men, the moustache is back and with that optimism, i think, in washington. first of all, paul ryan over and over again ij cysting that there's consensus, insisting that the problem can be fixed and then john boehner this morning not pushing back on the gang of eight intends to educate raucous caucus members. i think these are good signs. >> yeah, it is. it's a bifurcated effort. the leadership realizes that there is a population of members in the house and the caucus who are not going to go in any form of immigration reform. you can break it up in small chunks. you can do a big piece. they're just not going to buy it. so they segregate those guys out, they know who they are, and then they begin to work the remaining members. that's the mess saminging, the tone. ryan coming out of that meeting saying, hey, you've played it over and over again. those are four sets of information in the same thing. >> he's emphasizing the point

that we're going to get this done. they recognize that they cannot go into next year with this hanging over their head. this could be more damaging than most and they want to get it behind them. >> you know, michael, what's interesting is the tact now seems to be, you don't have to push your congress member for a path to legalization or amnesty or citizenship, just unch them to urge boehner to break the haster rule. that seems doable given that he's broken it several times. >> he's said he's not going to do it this time. he can change his mind. for the republican leadership their hope is coaxing their leaders. you can see a conference report come being out if they pass something that doesn't make the senate happy and then comes back to the house. you could break the haster rule then. this is the beginning of a process. what's going to happen is republicans are going to have to be made to feel like they own this bill in the house and right now they don't.

they have to put their mark on it. maybe it's a billion dollars more for a bigger fence, maybe it's a slightly different guest worker program, maybe it's another year on the path to citizenship and that i think is the hoped for outcome. i think it's difficult to get there. and you can hear in some of the stuff the white house has been saying recently, even in the president's interview yesterday, some real concern that even though the senate process went as well as anyone could have hoped, the house hasn't taken the cue that everybody was hoping for. >> as the house wants to do. things love to fall on deaf ears. the house loves to have things fall on deaf ears in the house. annie, i think that the president did the interview with telemundo and a lot of spanish language media has not paid attention to how bad they're getting into spanish media, jorge ramos saying does speaker

boehner want to be the new speaker #immigrationreform. this is a signal that they are really going to try to get the hispanic community. business and evangelical groups as well. the hispanic community is going to be a huge piece of trying to push them to compromise on this. >> absolutely. the two things are notable. the first is that the white house hasn't been out in front of this. they haven't been berating members of congress about this. the president has talked about it, he talked about it as a priority. i think they've been trying to step back and let congress do its work so that this is not a white house bill, not an obama effort to get the ownership to pass something. the second thing is in the event that something doesn't pass i think you'll hear a lot from democrats about the republican failure to get something through. >> yes. you'll definitely -- >> stating the obvious. >> so i think that they're gearing up for that. >> let me ask you about the president's approach because the

conventional wisdom, as annie said, he can't get too involved in this. it has to look like it's an organic thing. peter wrote a profile or analysis of president obama's style in "the new york times" yesterday, he said some compare mr. obama's approach to the hidden hand style of dwight d. eisenhower who often steered events behind the scenes without being public. on immigration, the ambitious legislative effort in his second term. he's kept this to a minimum to avoid alienating republicans. the white house says, make no mistake, we are involved. we may be behind the scenes, but we have our hands on the specific could tspigot. >> i thought that was interesting. this emerged after the fact. for years eisenhower was one of my favorite republican presidents and for years people said he didn't know how to speak the english language. it turned out he often did that on purpose when he didn't want to take a position. >> something george w. bush

adopted but anyway, i digress. >> so he didn't get credit for it until after the fact so we won't know about the obama hidden hand until this is over. but by going on spanish language media the present sent a not so subtle message to republicans. he said, look, we've really defeated you guys overwhelmingly in the last election among latino voters and if you guys don't deliver on this, you are going to face a real political problem in 2014 and again in 2016. i think he made a mistake on this vegetable thing. he should have said this is ice cream. if you look at what republicans have in this, number one, they could reduce their cold war. they could start to contain their cold war with hispanic voters. two, the business community is all over this. the republican party as i at least have understood likes to be in good standing with the business community, and there's a lot more activity among

evangelical christians and catholics who know how many latinos are average christians. it will come back. >> i thought it was dead three weeks ago, two weeks ago. it's back alive. i think it will be a constant sort of, what are those things that you put the clamps on the body and get the jolt. i am not a trained doctor, i just play one on television. >> the paddles. >> i want to make a quick point and see if michael agrees. i think what matters to boehner is not that a majority of republicans in the house end up voting on a bill, i think it's a majority of them in a quiet room that mitt romney is talking about, tell boehner, we need to pass this. if you end up passing this with democratic votes, we're not going to hold it against you. it's that internal republican argument that does matter. >> it does matter.

it's one of the points that you made that you can't gloss over. when you're looking at these republicans in the house and the districts they represent, 60, 70, 80% white, there is not an inclination to go back and rally behind this immigration reform. their constituents say, we don't have that issue. it's not our problem. what guys like ryan and others recognize is oh, it's not a problem today but in three to five years as your districts begin to change because of the demographic shifts that are happening in the country, we want to be on the leading edge of that change. we don't want to be behind trying to catch up. that's the real push. that's where that conversation you just eluded to is going to come in with the leadership among those republicans who are willing to make a move. we'll hold these guys at bay. you go do your thing. and that -- that's what you're going to see the rest of the summer as we get ready for the fall heads up debate on immigration. >> this morning something else

happened, and that was that boehner and cantore came out in support of the green act. this is like the cherry on top of the sundae. >> we'll get to baked alaska. >> we'll have a delicious caloric bomb. if this is assembled, the dream act is to get otherwise intransigent folks on board i think with a path to either city citizenship or legalization. if you take that apart from it, it's real hard to imagine the rest of the caucus coming on board or getting this through the house, getting legalization or path to citizenship if the dream act is no longer part of the bill. >> it is no longer. >> the other possibility is that the dream act is all that passes. the senate will say, no, we're not going to take it. hidden under all of that discussion to get back to the caloric metaphors, this may be

ice cream five, ten years from now and dream act may be a cherry right now, but with a lot of these members facing primaries, possible primary challenges, you have sardines in the near future, right? so one of the debates that's actually happening now among house republicans is if we are to go forward with this, is it better to try and have a very difficult vote on it this fall and set it up so that my primary challenger can register and come after me in the spring or is it better to wait on this? that calculation which is still being worked out now and it will be worked out by every single member who is going to face a tough vote, what are the chances of a primary challenge. i have a safe district. this could cost me this year. >> could i say one of the things michael seal said that was so important is these district boundaries are not border fences that say keep out certain kinds of people and that it's quite

right that they face short term challenges. in the long term, many of them will change. they have to think about both things at the same time. >> let me just say, annie, especially since you focus on the economy. there is the economic piece and not just business interests and high skill laborers. don freedman has an interesting analysis. he makes the point, i think a lot of folks don't know this, 40 cents of every one dollar of mexican exports are materials made in the u.s.a. compared to 4% from china. we can keep building fences between the u.s. and mexico, but actually a much more substantive economically profitable future for the u.s. doesn't involve having a 40 foot metal fence but figuring out a symbiotic relationship with the mexican government and mexican people. >> right. this is hard. immigration reform is going to

be a good thing for the economy. immigration is a good thing for the economies. there are winners and losers. for lower skilled workers, it's going to be hard. this is why it hasn't been disaggregated before. high skilled immigrants are not controversial. they haven't passed bills to bring in people with ph.d.s precisely because you need to deal with the 10 million problem. >> let me ask you, e.j., in terms of the long lens for the president, if he doesn't get immigration reform passed, how devastating is that for him in terms of anything else he may get done and what are the implications in terms of bipartisan? because we talk a lot about the fever and whether or not it broke. it didn't break. the fact that john mccain and lindsey graham are working with the white house, if you will, and democrats on filibusters would seem to be a point of hope but if immigration reform fails, which is the most substantive piece of legislation we can hope for in the next four years, what

are the implications for president and the congress? >> there are two ways this can go. to underscore something annie said, if we care about the impact of immigration reform, we should increase the minimum wage. i don't understand why they're not talking about that which is very popular across a lot of lines. if immigration reform goes down, it is a defeat for the president, but there's a big however, which is why he went on spanish language television. if the republicans take a big hit in 2014, if the hispanic group says you stop this from happening, we are going to have this happen in virginia we're having next fall, then a defeat for the president could turn into a defeat for the republicans. it's a two-stage thing. yes, it would be bad for the president but we'll see what happens in 2014. >> before we go, michael steel, i wonder this because you look at what is happening and you look at the impossibility of john boehner's job.

do you think there will ever be -- there was a political article a couple of weeks ago saying elders understand the districts as they are drawn are actually not that good for the party -- >> no, they're not. >> -- in terms of national governance and understanding gerrymandering happens. do you think there will be some awakening on behalf of republican governors to not district them so red and so conservative? >> they may have the awakening but the reality of the political process will probably stunt that opportunity for them who really want to make the reforms you see in california where they have an independent commission drawing those lines versus the political process. so, yeah, that's part of the reality. i think e.j. really for me at least sort of sums up the future for the gop. i'm a ballplayer. that's how i look at politics and the long ball list that i'm looking at, i see two balls coming at the party's head and folks are sitting back talking

about, oh, yeah, you know, minority turnout in the last election was low. really? wait until next year when the democrats start trying to relate on those two subjects. it won't matter because they'll be overwhelmed in other corners of this country. there's a signal that the party actually needs to get its head out of its behind and pay attention to where the country's moving instead of following that movement, get in front of it and lead. >> i applaud you, michael steel for saying that, and also for changing the metaphor from deserts to baseball. and on that note -- >> we just lost ten pounds. >> exactly. after the break, there are new indications that edward snowden may be closer to finding a home, but while the nsa leaker's flight of liberty is set to grab the headlines, we will speak to a key character in the snowden saga. the guardian's glenn greenwald when he joins us next on now.

a-a-a. f-f-f-f-f-f-f. lac-lac-lac. he's an actor who's known for his voice. but his accident took that away. thankfully, he's got aflac. they're gonna give him cash to help pay his bills so he can just focus on getting better. we're taking it one day at a time. one day at a time. [ male announcer ] see how the duck's lessons are going at aflac.com one day at a time. "stubborn love" by the lumineers did you i did. email? so what did you think of the house? did you see the school ratings? oh, you're right. hey babe, i got to go. bye daddy! have a good day at school, ok? ...but what about when my parents visit? ok. i just love this one... and it's next to a park. i love it. i love it too.

here's our new house... daddy! you're not just looking for a house. you're looking for a place for your life to happen.

having necessary school supplies can mean the difference between success and failure. the day i start, i'm already behind. i never know what i'm gonna need. new school, new classes, new kids. it's hard starting over. to help, sleep train is collecting school supplies for local foster children.

bring your gift to any sleep train, and help a foster child start the school year right. not everyone can be a foster parent, but anyone can help a foster child. from the beginning edward snowden and his supporters, including the guardian's glenn greenwald, have insisted that the media and the public keep their focus on the massive surveillance state that snowden revealed rather than the maneuverings than the man himself. it has fallen on deaf ears. in large part, that's because snowden's flight pattern has made him a pawn in a diplomatic chess match between the u.s. and

russia. >> he is not a human rights activist. he is not a dissi denlt. he's accused of leaking classified information. the russian government has an opportunity here to work with us through the normal channels to expel mr. snowden. this should not be something that causes long-term problems for u.s./russian relations. >> doing his part to inflame international tensions, senator lindsey graham yesterday called for a boycott of next year's winter olympics in russia if president putin refuses to hand over snowden. today putin said snowden's request for temporary asylum is working its way through proper channels but that any right to asylum will be revoked if snowden discloses further material. it's a position snowden appears to have agreed to. many are questioning his motivations. buzz feed says snowden's flight and its surrounding geo poly iks is a good story.

15 senators are now pushing for greater transparency from the fiza court and at least five federal lawsuits challenging the nsa's data mining programs are currently working their way through the courts. as for public opinion, a majority of the public sees snowden as a whistle-blower rather than a traitor and some are questioning whether a u.s. jury would convict snowden. david pozen writes that one source of concern is the jury. jurors might be tempted to acquit snowden not because they believe he is factually innocent but because they believe he was morally justified. still a majority of americans also believe that the nsa programs are necessary to keep americans safe and see a loss of privacy as the inevitable cost of living in the 21st century. as frank ridge argues in new york magazine, the overwhelming majority of the public is, quote, begging for its privacy to be invaded and god willing to be exposed in every gory detail before the largest audience

possible. joining me now from rio de janeiro is columnist for the guardian, glenn greenwald. glen, thanks so much for joining us. i want to get right to the news of today, which is snowden has told the russian lawyer who's advising him, i will fulfill president putin's condition. as someone who has been in touch with snowden, is it your understanding that snowden is agreeing to no further leaks or is he simply maintaining his belief that the leaks are not harming national security? >> i think it's both. he said from the beginning that the condition that he not harm the united states was a very easy one for him to fulfill because nothing he's done has harmed the united states. quite the contrary, it's strengthened the united states by exposing what its political leaders are doing in the dark which strengthens democracy and brings about transparency but i think there's a misconception on the question of will he continue to do the leaks which is how

these stories have been reported. he hassen been leaking document by document. he turned over to us many thousands of documents weeks and weeks ago back in hong kong when he was in hong kong and when i was as well and we have been the ones deciding which stories get published and in which order. as far as i know, he doesn't have any intention of disclosing anymore documents to us. he gave us all the documents that he thinks we ought to have and that the public ought to know many, many weeks ago. >> well, glen, given the fact that you have said you have -- still have thousands of pages of documents and the u.s. government's sort of concerned about the release of those documents, i know you said yesterday on fox that you haven't received any pressure from the u.s. government, but have you had any further communication with them on this given the trove of material that you have on hand and the fact that you are effectively the significant got that controls its release? >> we go to the u.s. government before we publish every story like we would do with anyone on whom we're reporting and ask

them to comment and we public the comments of the u.s. government and ask them to make arguments to the guardian editors about whether this material should be suppressed in the name of the national security. i do know that not a single document has been suppressed because none of their claims are at all persuasive. they never offer anything specific. they say don't publish this because it will harm national security. we have rejected those. i don't think there's a credible argument to make that we've harmed national security. what we've done is informed the debate. i don't think that the u.s. government thinks trying to pressure us or mow will do them any good. so as far as i know there hasn't been any kind of pressure like that. >> you know, glenn, while there has been extraordinary focus on snowden, where he is in russia, where he is seeking asylum, there is actually movement afoot in the united states to act on some of the secrets or the nsa

programs that edward snowden made clear and revealed to the american public and i wonder what you think of the action in the senate and the action in the courts, the fact that the state secrets privilege may not be invoked to the degree that it has been thus far, that it may not be the prop that the government stands on from come to go light. are you satisfied with what's going on and where are you most optimistic in terms of change happening? is it the courts that we can look to for the biggest amount of progress? >> i agree with you, alex. i think there has been an awful lot of media focus on trivialitiys but i think the political system and culture both in the united states and internationally, this is a big international story, have taken these disclosures seriously and there are encouraging and gratifying trends that you suggested. there's all sorts of movement in the united states senate and congress to mandate much greater disclosure when it comes to the

decisions of the fiza court. this idea that we should have a secret court enacting secret law that determines the contours of the constitutional lib brert at this that is striking all kinds of people as tyrannical. the idea that james clapper went before congress and lied to their faces, which is a felony, when asked whether or not the nsa is collecting millions of records indiscriminately against americans. i think even in the courts there's movement in the fiza court to say that there was a decision in 2011 that found that the united states government, the obama administration said there's spying on american citizens. the fiza court said we have no objection to know about our 80 page ruling. it's radically changed how

people understand what the nsa is doing, the proper limits of secrecy and the kinds of powers that our political leaders should be able to exercise in the dark. >> i've got to ask you, glen, because edward snowden when all of these leaks came out and said just because effectively we're spying on folks who are not american doesn't make it right and at the same time he's seeking refuge in countries with abysmal human rights records. he even went as far as to say the other day that he wanted to congratulate the leaders of venezuela, ecuador and russia for standing up. given their records domestically, is that not hip critical? >> no. i'll tell you why. people seek asylum from the united states all the time. the united states government continuously grants them asylum. i never hear people say isn't it

odd that they rendered people, kid namd them and put them in changes in guantanamo or that invaded and destroyed a country of 26 million people in iraq and have all sorts of human rights abuses because the idea of asylum is that countries under international law are supposed to protect you from persecution that you're enduring at home, that you're fleeing. he isn't going to venezuela, or ecuador, bolivia, wherever he ends up. he's going there because as daniel elseburg said, this country is no longer safe for whistle blowers. they have an unprecedented war on people who blow the whistle on government misconduct. he has to go somewhere. there are very few places in the world willing to stand up to the united states and demand that his rights under the law be protected. his choices are very limited and he's trying to make sure that he doesn't end up like bradley manning, put in a cage, rendered incommunicado. he wants to participate in the

ongoing debate that he provoked and that's what's guiding his choices. >> the guardian's glenn greenwald, a developing story if ever there was one. thanks for your time. coming up, from tony soprano and jimmy mcnault at this, the brooding antihero has overtaken american television screens. behind these dark and complicated characters is another real life group of difficult men. we will discuss the new golden age of television when author and gq correspondent brett martin joins us just ahead. ♪ i'm a hard, hard worker every day. ♪

♪ i'm a hard, hard worker and i'm working every day. ♪ ♪ i'm a hard, hard worker and i'm saving all my pay. ♪ small businesses get up earlier and stay later. and to help all that hard work pay off, membership brings out millions of us on small business saturday and every day to make shopping small huge. this is what membership is. this is what membership does.

[ john ] nope. [ tires squeal ] twelve bucks a night! no. they have waterbeds. ew. no! are we near a gas station? [ phone beeps] [ phone ] no. is that from the mini bar? [ both ] no. is that a cop? no. [ cop ] do you know how fast you were going? no. eighty-seven [ groans ] he's right. is that oscar mayer? [ karen] yes! [ male announcer ] in a world filled with "no", it's nice to finally say "yes". oscar mayer selects deli meat,

no artificial preservatives and gluten free. it's yes food. it's oscar mayer. it's♪yes food. you like to keep your family healthy and fit. and now there's a new way to do the same for your dog. introducing new purina dog chow light & healthy. it's a no-sacrifices, calorie-light way to keep him trim, with a deliciously tender and crunchy kibble blend he'll love. and 22% fewer calories than dog chow. discover the lighter side of strong. new purina dog chow light & healthy.

i'm a teenager. don had a jury think of african-american teenager, they supposed to be cussing. i did not even curse don. i didn't show him a lot of respect because it's ridiculous questions back and forth, back and forth, but i kept my ground. i stand strong. i never curse. i know the first day was, oh, my god, i can't deal with him no more, but i still held on to him. you not going to break me. me went through so much. you think you going to break me now? i'm going after you but the nice way. >> you can watch the rest of

reverend al's interview with rachel jeantel tonight right here on msnbc. after the break, once upon a time, monsters looked like michael corlione or henry hill. the idea that a don might have a shrink was anything but mainstream. answer, tony soprano. we will discuss james gandolfini's ground breaking character and other difficult men who have changed the tv land to tv game when we're joined next. ♪ i'm in my work van, having lunch, next minute i'm in the back of an ambulance having a heart attack. the emts gave me bayer aspirin. it helped save my life. i was in shape, fit. i did not see it coming. my doctor recommends i take bayer aspirin to help prevent another heart attack. [ male announcer ] aspirin is not appropriate for everyone so be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. i've lived through a massive heart attack. i don't take life for granted. see your doctor and get checked out.

♪

[ male announcer ] clearly this isn't one of those speed-eating contests. that's a hebrew national hot dog. a kosher hot dog. that means we're extra choosy about the cuts of beef that meet our higher kosher standards. and only a good, old-fashioned slow-motion bite is gonna capture all that kosher delight. and when your hot dog's kosher, that's a hot dog you can trust. hebrew national. murder rouse mobsters, meth dealers, broffel keepers and serial killers. 40 years ago they would not be allowed near a living room. when it comes to the battle over hearts and minds, the bad guys

have officially won, at least when it comes to television. pro tag gee nists of days past have been replaced by antiheroes like tony soprano, don draper, and dexter. a new book by gq's brett martin, difficult men, follows the people who brought these characters to life, the show creators and a no less difficult group of men, the shows, the sopranos, the wire, breaking bad, dead wood have taken us into what martin calls the third golden age of television. gone are the days when television was the boob tube. they have become the signature american art form of the first decade of the 21st century. the equivalent of what the films of scorcese has been to the 1970s or the novels of updike, roth and mailev have been to the 1960s. joining us is gq correspondent, the incredible brett martin,

author of "difficult men." >> great to see you. >> sorry, you keep running away from me. >> it's true, but i have no doubt that your compelling thesis about the third golden age of television will be communicated accurately. >> i hope so. >> even across this distance. let's talk about where we are. i think this is a huge ly powerful and optimistic view that we are able to embrace the antihero, characters of nuance, pain and anguish. what is the comment? as you research the book, what's the sort of take away as far as where we are as cultural consumers? >> i think it's always a good thing when good art is rewarded with an audience and there are periods when that has been in books and literature, traditional literature. there have been times when that's been in film and starting around the time really of the sopranos you see it go to tv and

of course the fact that it became culturally mandatory to have watched the wire, for instance, and incredibly difficult, complicated, challenging piece of work or the sopranos or madmen, any of these shows, yeah, it does say something really good about american culture, at least that there's a place for that kind of stuff even if one of the most crucial parts allowing it to happen is you didn't need half of the country to be watching it. you didn't need the kinds of numbers that used to mark a successful show. >> in the book you sort of positioned david chase, the creator of the sopranos, the reluctant modus. he is the one from which all of this great television sprang. tell us more about that. a lot of the book takes place in the writer's room or gives us a sense of what happens in the writer's room. give us a sense of david chase and how that genre was born through his, i guess, seat.

>> sure. david chase was your classic conflicted man. he grew up worshiping film, worshiping the european film makers and american film makers and he really believed in his hard and to some extent still believes that television was for sellouts, it was for hacks, that he had compromised himself irreparably by working in television. he was quite successful in television. one of the dramas is given what he was able to accomplish with the sopranos and the gap on the rest of television, he had any treen revise that. you'd like to think that he now recognizes how great television can be. he still wishes he was working in film. i told that to alan ball. really? why don't you ask him which films. >> brett, i want to open this up

to our folks in d.c. annie, we were talking about what do you watch more, television or movies. there's round agreement or broad agreement that television is where the art form is, it's where the compelling stories are. it's also where the money is. david denby in the new republic writes in the 1930s roughly 80 million people went to the movies every week with weekly attendance peeking in 90 million in the 1930s and in the 1940s. now 30 million people go to the movies in a population 2.5 times the population of the 1930s. >> i will not go to the movies unless i'm absolutely sure that it's going to be really, really great. i'm so often disappointed where so much tv is fantastic. the richness you can get by spending dozens of hours with the characters is totally different to what you're getting in 2 1/2 hours. the sopranos, the office uk, there are a huge amount of

buildings romans so if you sit down and watch all of the episodes at once. >> the wire, michael, that is very much beyond a reflection of american society. that was almost the rosetta stone for what is happening in certain parts of american culture, in street culture, in drug kit tur. it was a reference points and remains a reference point for politicians. >> the untold parts. my favorite part about this story is i remember when broadcast networks were saying good quality television is going to die because we can't get the audience because we're turning to reality television shows. there was writers in hollywood saying, look, our future is dim and technology has improved content. i'm interested from the author whether if you look at music, if you look at the printed word, technological changes have actually made it harder to do for the most part high quality content and get paid for it,

whereas, television has had a countervailing effect so far. >> e.j.? >> i think we are in an age of post television television where the distinction between film and television is broken down, appointment television, except of course for this show, is alive. a lot of people buy whole series and watch it in a few sittings, which i think opens a way for creativity and for nonmass programming though i still can't believe there's better television than bonanza and far 54 where are you? >> you still have even within the television genre, not even talking about the impact on movies, but now between network television and cable television. >> and online television. >> and online television, you see now the networks beginning to up their games with these antiheroes, which is very fascinating, whether it's the following or other shows like madmen. >> or even scandal is a developed -- >> so that dynamic is really moving the way that we view

television. >> you know, brett, i want to ask you. the name of the book before we let you go is of course difficult men but there are increasingly difficult women or complicated women that are show runners and stars of series whether that's carrie in homeland, orange, black, weeds, a host of them. are you going to be writing a sequel about that. >> i will. my favorite woman on television. >> yes! that is so true. >> when i get back to new york. >> if only i was in new york. even before the book that shirt would have been apropos. brett martin, thank you so much for your time. the book is "difficult men." a hugely buzzy book for a reason. thank you for your time. gq's brett martin. coming up, she has the name. a lot of republicans are less than thrilled that liz cheney is taking a crack at a senate run.

we will discuss cheney 2014. get that t-shirt just ahead. people join angie's list for all kinds of reasons. i go to angie's list to gauge whether or not the projects will be done in a timely fashion and within budget. angie's list members can tell you which provider is the best in town. you'll find reviews on everything from home repair to healthcare. now that we're expecting, i like the fact i can go onto angie's list and look for pediatricians. the service providers that i've found on angie's list actually have blown me away. find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust. which comes out on top? it's just nice. that's what i was thinking! fresh. that's exactly what i was thinking. yeah. fresh. fresh. like i could wrap myself in it. odors are no match for febreze. breathe happy. [ tap ] ♪ 'cause tonight [ tap ] ♪ we'll share the same dream ♪

♪ at the dark end of the street ♪ ♪ ♪ you and me ♪ you and me ♪ you and me ♪

♪ you and me all this produce from walmart and secretly served it up in the heart of peach country. it's a fresh-over. we want you to eat some peaches and tell us what you think. they're really juicy. it must have just come from the farm. this right here is ideal for me. walmart works directly with growers to get you the best quality produce they've ever had. what would you do if i told you all this produce is from walmart? wow! is it really? (laughter) find fresh peaches and all your quality produce.

backed by our 100% money back guarantee. walmart. much has been made about schisms in the republican party, but who would have thought that those risks would have been exposed in wyoming. we will discuss the impact of another cheney's attempt to get to washington. that's next. asional constipation, diarrhea, gas, bloating? yes! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues... with three strains of good bacteria. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'.

a friend under water is something completely different. i met a turtle friend today. avo: whatever you're looking for, expedia has more ways to help you find yours.

until this week the senate race in wyoming was a quiet one with republican senator mike enzi poised to win hand dilly in 2014, but now enzi has a challenger, liz cheney, progeny

of vice president cheney. what's going on? al simpson said a race between cheney-enzi will be a disaster. what's going on? >> i think he's right. this is an insurgent move by cheney. the reality of when she says, you know, basically he compromises too much, enough to go along to get along. when have people gone along to get along in washington. >> what washington are you talking about? >> seriously. this is a personal opportunity for an opening. it will be tough. >> fissures galore. i will say, michael, that in the last couple of weeks we've seen the resurgence of george w. bush, george h.w. bush and now we have a cheney in the mix. it's the '90s and early 2000s

all over again. >> she's going to be running it with a network of friends in mcclain, virginia. >> where all radicals are born. >> she is in washington as much as anybody has been. as someone is watching her enter debates, her role has been to come into debates, inflame passions, deepen divisions between people. she's got that going for her if that's her -- if that's her selling point. but to run in a state she hasn't really lived in, she just bought a house in, as the i'm going to come shake up washington candidate i think is an interesting move. >> you know, that makes a larger point. i think that's why this race is important. the standard account is it's the tea party versus washington, but in fact a lot of this is the washington based tea party against regan file conservatives. this race through mike enzi gives the rank and file a chance to talk back. >> i hope they do.

i hope the enzi team really come prepared with a strong a game because this could be a cinema moment for a longer conversation. >> i just want to -- annie, a schism within the tea party. could it get more fractured? that is incredible. >> we've seen tea party challengers come in and displace incumbents, especially in the house. it's worth noting that mike enzi is a pretty popular guy and who's polled pretty well in his state and so maybe he's a little bit weak on fundraising. i'm sure he can be criticized from the right on the issues, but it's not clear to me that this is such an easy guy to topple. >> the cheney way is not to stand down even in the face of irrefutable facts. thank you to all of you. that is all for "now." i'll see you back here tomorrow at noon eastern when i'm joined by author dave colin. until then you can find us at

facebook.com/nowwithalex. "andrea mitchell reports" is next. sec! i found our colors. we've made a decision. great, let's go get you set up... you need brushes... you should check out our workshops... push your color boundaries while staying well within your budget walls. i want to paint something else. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. glidden premium interior paint, starts at a new lower price at $18.94 a gallon. humans. we are beautifully imperfect creatures living in an imperfect world. that's why liberty mutual insurance has your back, offering exclusive products like optional better car replacement, where if your car is totaled, we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. call...

and ask an insurance expert about all our benefits today, like our 24/7 support and service, because at liberty mutual insurance, we believe our customers do their best out there in the world, so we do everything we can to be there for them when they need us. plus, you could save hundreds when you switch, up to $423. call... today. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy? you know it even after all these years. but your erectile dysfunction - you know,that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain,

as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial.

i'm running because i believe it is necessary for a new generation of leaders to step up to the plate. i'm running because i know as a mother and a patriot we can no longer afford to go along to get along. right now on "andrea mitchell reports", the next generation of cheneys jumps into the political ring in the cowboy state, but liz cheney's primary challenge to a veteran senator and long-time family friend is already causing a party rift. >> i think that liz has -- she's terrific and i think she has a future that is very, very bright, i just think this is the wrong race at the wrong time. >> slamming stand your ground in the wake of the george zimmerman verdict, attorney general eric holder's takedown of the florida