so dubai is offering citizens a gram of gold for every kilogram of weight loss. we thought that's $41 worth of gold for 2.2 pounds. that's not enough. what would motivate you to get in shape? eric schultz has answers. eric? >> a little tight on time. go to jessica who says an appearance on "way too early" would motivate me. i just want to tell you, jessica, it's not really that great. >> we won't abuse her the way we abuse schultz. i want to share, eric weaver, knock $1,000 off my student loan debt for every pound loss i

would still need to lose about 100 pounds though. we feel your pain on that one. "morning joe" starts right now. all right. good morning, everyone. it's friday, july 19th. happy friday, everybody. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we have former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve ratner, good day to have you on. hello, ratner. >> unhappy circumstances. >> terrible circumstances but perhaps you'll help us understand where we go from here. washington, senior political editor and white house correspondent for "the huffington post," sam stein. and msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele. willie geist and brian shactman at the table as well. joe, couple things coming up. first of all, don't get vladimir putin mad. front page of the "new york times" -- >> no. >> he will kill you.

>> head of the opposition. or arrest you and cause protests. that -- >> have somebody else kill you. >> with liz cheney, running for senate in wyoming, you know, don't call her a bored housewife because i'm going to have to defend her. you know -- >> see, that's -- no. and you see, you -- if you say a guy's confused. >> right. i have problems with that. >> i understand you do. i'm telling you, though, i'm telling you, that will not impact voters as much as insulting somebody for being at home with their children and taking care of them. >> yeah. >> i got to say in the insult wars right now, advantage liz. >> there are a lot of women at home taking care of their children and the phrase "bored housewife" i would say is probably among the most insensitive and insulting you can receive. also coming up, we'll talk about that. willie, netflix making history. >> the emmy nominations came out

yesterday. 14 all together. nine for "house of card." "arrested development." they are the story of the emmys. when those nominations came out yesterday. >> we'll get to that. >> first we'll start in detroit where after years of decline, city officials have officially filed for bankruptcy protection. known as the birth place of the american auto industry, and the iconic motown records, the city has racked up at least $18 billion in debt. listing more than 100,000 creditors. it now becomes the largest city in u.s. history to file for chapter 9. it's a stunning, but not entirely surprising, turn of events. detroit's population soared during the rise of the auto industry in the 20th century, peaking at around 1.8 million back in 1950. now, the population has fallen to just over 700,000. a 26% plunge in the past decade.

the unemployment rate is over 18% and the city never really recovered from the housing crisis. today, close to 80,000 homes have been abandoned and the median value of the ones still occupied is below $40,000. crime is also a major problem in detroit as the city's homicide rate is at historically high levels ranking among america's dangerous cities for more than 20 years. the future of detroit remains far from certain with no clear road map to how the motor city survives. the filing begins a three-month process to determine if the city even qualifies for chapter 9 protection and who would be eligible for settlement funds. there's no doubt the move will impact the 9500 city employees and 20,000 retirees, many of whom could face cuts to pensions and other city programs. joe, we've been watching this story for several years now, from a number of different angles. i'm not surprised, but i think

there's so many questions now. >> there really are. and, of course, the great tragedy of detroit is that, you know, in the middle of last century around 1950, it was the wealthiest city in america. the most powerful city on the face of the earth. it represented, really, what was good about american industry going back to henry ford and the revolution he created in a farm field. you know, be what was good for general motors was good for america. that was a famous phrase. it was the truth too. boy, there's been such a downfall and a downfall starting in the mid '60s and let's go to steve ratner here, because, steve, you've got people on the left that are going to blame let's say the reagan era and the coldness when it came to a series of cuts. you've got conservatives that talk about all of the pension

plans and just how excessive they are. the fact that there's a living wage there, quote living wage, that's higher than the regular wage and that there's one regulation after another after another that's brought detroit down. at the end of the day, steve, aren't those just ideological arguments and isn't this really just about an auto industry that moved overseas? >> it is in part, joe, and you're right to trace the decline of detroit going back a ways. what's interesting about the other bankruptcies that you showed a minute ago, is they all had exogenous effects in a way to their bankruptcy. jefferson county in alabama had a bad financing, they were in some ways misled by their bankers. the two in california reflect proposition 13 and all the cutbacks in state aid that resulted from. detroit sort of stands on its own both in its size and the reasons for its bankruptcy. what's interesting about detroit, is that the very factors that took detroit in

1920 to the fourth most populace city in america, are the same factors that brought it to its demise which is the automobile, in the sense that what detroit suffered from probably greater extent than almost any american city was declining population. and population are like customers. they're your revenue base, your source of income to run your city. if you go back to 1950, detroit had over 1.8 million residents in it. it was the fourth largest city as you talked about. you can see it here on this chart. from 1950 all the way to today, without necessarily any sign of it abating, the population has just gone down, down, down to a little over 700,000 at the moment. >> and steve, what was so surprising about detroit are the genius of mhenry ford and it wa extraordinary business move on his part, early on in the company's history, he decided he was going to lower the cost of

the car, he was going to raise wages, because he said he wanted to make it that everybody on the assembly line could buy a car. well, when you start talking about the city's population going down because the jobs at gm and ford were going down, it just became this terrible cycle that fed on itself. less workers, less people with money to do what henry ford said they would do, go out and buy the family car at the factory where they made it. >> but it was also a second problem which is emblematic of america, flight from the cities. detroit became afflicted by some of the same factors that affect every city. the automobile ironically was somewhat responsible for detroit's demise because it allowed people to commute. they moved out. they moved out to the cities outside of detroit and then you had urban blytight and the city

becoming less safe. before it was over -- if you go to detroit as i have done many times you will see a shelf a city. you will see whole blocks which there are one or two houses that are left still occupancy. when i took over the auto job back in january of 2009, you know what the average price of a house sold that month in detroit was? >> $9,000. >> very close. $5,000. you could buy a house in detroit for $5,000 because everybody wanted to get out. and that led to terrible city finances. >> willie? >> this is obviously a very emotional for not just for detroit, but also for the country. as joe said, this wasn't just the beating heart of the auto industry but as "the wall street journal" puts it this morning 100 years ago it was silicon valley, where all the technology and ideas were coming out of. also, music. a huge cultural center not just of the united states but of the world. that's why this hurts so many people, not just there, but around the country. so the next question is, steve, i guess, what does it mean for

an entire u.s. city to go bankrupt? what happens now? >> well, first, as joe alluded to, the city utterly mismanaged its finances and ran persistent deficits all the way through. i will acknowledge it is hard to run a business when your customers are getting fewer and fewer every year, but nonetheless they ran $100 million plus deficits every year. they piled up as mika said, 16 or $17 billion in obligations, a little over half of that in debt, and the rest in pensions for city workers and in health care benefits for city workers and now they have to face the music. what does it mean for detroit? nobody quite knows. chapter 9 bankruptcy, which is what they filed under, is a very long, protracted practice. they're twice the size of any city which ever used it before, which was stockton, california. looking at it from a financial perspective the only way to make the numbers work, i say may be to make the numbers work, massive cuts in the debt and more importantly significant

changes in pensions and in health care benefits and so personally, i think this is a place where government's going to have to step in. >> that will be interesting to see that play out. we'll talk about this throughout the show, what it means for city workers in detroit and retirees but also the president meant to prevent this. he vowed to prevent this. what this means on a broader perspective as we'll look at. couple other big stories to get to. the fallout from the "rolling stone" cover controversy conditions. in response to what may have been called a glamourized even rock star treatment of dzhokhar tsarnaev, a photographer with the massachusetts state police released a series of photos showing the alleged bomber in a decidedly less glamorous state. the previously unseen images show the accused killer with a red laser site trained on his head as he surrendered following a citywide manhunt. the graphic pictures were given to boston magazine by sergeant sean murphy. he wrote that the "rolling

stone" cover was an insult to anyone who ever wore a uniform. adding, quote, photography is very simple, it's very basic. it brings us back to the cave. an image like this on the cover of "rolling stone" we see it instantly as being wrong. what "rolling stone" did was wrong. this guy is evil. this is the real boston bomber. not someone fluffed and buffed for the cover of "rolling stone" magazine. the editor of boston magazine tweeted that murphy, joe, has since been relieved of duty and stripped of his gun, badge and computer. and nbc news is still working to independently verify that reporting, but fallout from the fallout of the "rolling stone" cover. >> yeah. well, willie, i mean you can certainly understand why this police officer would want to do that and actually show and i think this is very important for any idiot that would be looking at the "rolling stone" cover deciding they're going to go out in a blaze of glory and get a glamour "rolling stone" cover, this shows the other side of it

and i'm kind of glad the cop did it. >> yeah. sergeant murphy may have been relieved of his post and status will be reviewed according to that report, but i think he spoke for a lot of people in that police department and the city of boston when he put out that counter image. this is obviously -- this cover of "rolling stone" has really struck a chord across the country but obviously particularly in boston. almost universally across the board up there, people are -- have viewed it negatively and think it's an insult. i don't know if everyone has read the article but i think a lot of people up there back what sergeant murphy did yesterday. >> i think it's a tough one. he obviously broke the rules within the state police. i don't -- but -- the point that he's trying to make adds to the conversation significantly. we'll follow that as well. let's go to politics, shall we, joe, and liz cheney. one potential obstacle in her bid for u.s. senate in wyoming

can be the impression she only moved to the state to run for political office. veteran republican strategist ed rollins tells the hill, quote, this. i like liz, i've been a longtime friend of her father's but it will be portrayed as they've been away from the state a long time, a housewife who's kind of bored, who moved back to wyoming after a long time to run for the senate. rollins went on to say, quote, unfortunately for liz that's not a state like california or new york where you can carpetbag very easily. he did add later that he liked both candidates, but wished she was running somewhere else. when asked for comment miss cheney told the hill, quote, i am a fourth generation wyomingite my family first came here in 1825 walking the mormon trail in search of religious freedom. my great grandfather settled here in 1907. wyoming has always been home. >> there you go. >> why do you do that? >> and she's not a bored

housewife. michael steele -- >> hey. >> this race may get good. this may be a good one. liz talking about new generation of leadership and then talking about how senator enzi must just have been confused, you know, while he was, you know, dipping his crackers in his milk to make it soft enough for him to be able to chew down and digest them easily. and now we have ed rollins coming back saying that she's a bored housewife and a carpetbagger. going to be a lot of back and forths here, aren't there? >> there are. and joe, it's amazing that 24 hours out of the gate, both sides have stepped in it as you very well illustrated. liz cheney wit her, you know, ageist comment and ed rollins with his sexist comment about liz. and -- but at the end of the day, i mean, rollins was making an underlying point, which is going to be something to watch, is that the people of wyoming are very sensitive about

carpetbagging and why the issue has been raised already. and the fact that, you know, you know, liz is saying, you know, i'm a wyomingite, that's great, but you haven't lived there. you have not been a part of that community or culture for ever. there is that aspect of it that will get played out. i think both sides have kind of stepped in it early and if this portends how this campaign is going to be, it's going to be a doozy. >> sam stein? >> ed rollins is a good guy and smart analyst. i bet he wishes he could have that back. >> oh, yeah. >> what's the reaction inside the state of wyoming. we're hearing a lot of beltsway talk about liz cheney. michael enzi is a popular senator. what's the reaction? >> having spent a straight week in wyoming, willie, i have no idea what the reaction is in the state of wyoming. >> do you not have access to televisions or telephones? >> i've called all 570,000

people. it took a while. with ed rollins' comment i don't get why carpetbagging in wyoming is harder to do than say in new york. we'll put that aside. i think it's an absurd attack on liz cheney. she obviously has roots to the state of wyoming. her father is clearly popular there. he's been there. doesn't make sense to me. i think it was a stupid comment. i'm sure he would want to take it back for the sexist undertones obviously. what i've been surprised about, maybe joe could add here, how little -- how poor a reception liz cheney has had within republican circles to her entrance into the race. that might be because there's a sitting senator there, perhaps they thought it was not the right time, she was talking out of turn, but i have a sense it's a little deeper than that, that people aren't exactly enamored with the cheney name within the republican party. >> joe, add to that question, the fact that it did seem a little awkward at first because there's a sitting senator who's popular in position there. do you think liz called up ed rollins and said could you do me a favor?

could you call me a bored housewife and, you know -- because it's going to -- look. that is just the last thing in the world that you would want to do if you -- >> you are so cynical. >> no, i'm not. you know i'm right. >> you sound like your father. >> really? >> you know what i really think. >> strategy. >> anyway -- so anyway, whenever i start doing my dr. brzezinski says, you are making me sound like a rabbi, so anyway, you know, she's doing something that the establishment hates. she's taking on an incumbent, a well-liked incumbent and the party doesn't like when that happens. they know, you know, the republican party, if you listen to my good friend, nate silver, the republican party has a good chance of taking over the united states senate next year and the last thing you want are resources being wasted in a state like wyoming in a primary

that could be nailed down. so, yeah, she's -- she is going to get dinged from the left and the right and the center and she's going to be hit. what she is doing is really at the end of the day, that's the toughest thing to do in american politics, take on an established, well-liked incumbent inside your own political party. and so yeah, i would be surprised if the republican establishment were nice to her. again, like i said yesterday, i think what's going to be really fascinating is watching rand paul going out there and working aggressively to beat liz cheney because he's -- believes in a more limited foreign policy and she, of course, is fairly aggressive on the neocon front just like her father. >> finally this block, before we get to bill karins and the heat wave, netflix is shaking up the emmy awards grabbing 14 nominations. "house of cards" received nine,

including one for outstanding drama series. but not everyone would have predicted the company's success. listen to this, back in 2010 the ceo of time warner said of net flicks, quote, it's a little bit like, is the albanian army going to take over the world? i don't think so. at $8 to $10, it doesn't have the economics to support high-value programming. after the nominations were announced yesterday the ceo of net flicks posted on facebook, quote, albania takes it up a notch. yes, it does. i'm telling you, this is a great business story on a number of levels, brian. and some of the shows, willie, are just fantastic. i actually started watching tv again. >> listen, it's an anti-establishment move. i'm not going to make an analogy with liz cheney but the bottom line -- >> please don't. >> i thought netflix was dumb. >> i didn't get it. >> and i didn't get it and didn't think they could do it and they did it and now we have

to reenvision the entire model. and what time warner is saying they felt threatened and still feel threatened and this just confirms it and everyone's got to throw out the rundown on how to produce television. >> why did you think they were done? before they came up with shows. >> even when they said they were going to do it i didn't think they could execute and produce the quality they did. i thought the dvd business was too late because they got in the business too late and this was not going to be a winner. >> what's fascinating about it is the fact, of course, that netflix made their ceo made some absolutely horrendous decisions, business decisions, everybody dropped out, they had the two tiered pricing system. i don't know about you guys, i would get e-mails 12 times a day saying please come back to netflix. come on. forget it. i never would. and the second i had four or five people saying you've got to watch "house of cards," dang, i got to go back to netflix. and i did. it's a remarkable business decision that he made and, of

course, the irony of what jeff bewkes said, which by the way i think most people on wall street agreed with, is jeff was the guy who back at the end of the '90s knew hbo was about to become the place you went to see old, you know, movies and stand-up routines unless he threw the bomb, the hail mary, and he did. and what he did by deciding to invest 100 -- what, $150 million in "band of brothers" he changed television. he changed hbo, he changed cable. that one decision to invest that much in "band of brothers" revolutionized everything. it was the one decision really that all of these other decisions have come from. so it's ironic, mika, that jeff had said what he said about netflix and that may have just been some gamesmanship, but he certainly -- he understands this

netflix move because he's the first guy in the entertainment move who made it. >> i wonder if some people have heard of some of these shows that are going to be on the national platform and get more viewers. coming up on "morning joe," the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory joins the conversation. also, congressman peter king who says he's considering a presidential run. we'll talk to david axelrod and in a few minutes the head coach of the new york jets rex ryan will be here in the studio. up next the top stories in the politico playbook. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> mika, 95 million people this morning are waking up in a heat warning or a heat advisory today. this will be it from here on out, we'll be saying good-bye to our heat wave. by the time we get back on monday everybody will be all done with this. yesterday was just an amazing day. not only was everyone in the mid 90s but we hit 100 at laguardia, jfk hit 100 and newark hit 101. we're going to do it all over again today. we're starting off at 89 in philadelphia, 89 in new york.

that's the heat index when you walk out the door this morning. that is as warm as it gets. as i mentioned the 95 million people in the warning including boston, providence, hartford, new york, philly, baltimore, washington, d.c., cincinnati, dayton, ohio, and also detroit, so this is all the way back into the great lakes. how hot will it be today? 100 in central park. about 98 or so from philadelphia to baltimore to washington, d.c. and as advertised it will cool off eventually. the first spot to cool off, minneapolis, today 86 degrees. the front has already moved through. that front will spark thunderstorms, though, for chicago today, detroit, buffalo, and then on saturday, the front will push to the south with severe storms for pittsburgh, much of pennsylvania and upstate new york. the front will go through. everyone by sunday will say good-bye to an impressive mid summer heat wave. there it is. that's the thing responsible. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ tap ]

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that's what you think until your kids grow up. we're going to look at the morning papers. just talking about the front page of "usa today" how texting has blown up the dating culture and i think in frightening ways because basically you don't have to go through anything. you don't have to take any risks, joe. you like send a text and whatever else you want to send and seems kind of cold and just dangerous. am i wrong? >> you got two teenage girls. how is that working for you? >> it's just -- i don't know. i feel like you lose them to the phone and the computer and you have to try and like get them back every day. am i wrong? >> yeah. >> no. i have kids who are post-teenage and that is the teenage culture

with your iphone clasped to your hand. >> have you not got an snap chat from your kids? >> i hope not. >> that's the bad one. snap a picture and then it goes away. >> my husband snap chats with my daughter and they do funny faces and stuff. >> no. >> no? >> no. >> mika, willie and i will need to explain to you after the show the purpose of snap chat. >> yeah. >> and what the kids have told us. >> what? >> it is not -- it is not -- not to send videos to your mommy. >> no. >> it's to -- >> that's what we do -- >> have vu videos to you. >> that's -- >> snap chat bad. >> if you want to know what your daughters do the rest of the time some. >> no. what are you talking about? oh, my gosh. what? what do you think? is that possible? >> willie -- >> i would call it likely. >> by the way, willie and i don't have to worry about it. when our daughters are teenagers it will be another set of issues. >> this will be fun to talk about next weekend. let's go to the "new york times" the supreme court of new jersey has ruled police must obtain a

search warrant before tracking information from cell phones. this unanimous decision makes new jersey the first in the country to impose a ruling that protects the privacy of citizens from methods of electronic surveillance. joe? >> and the wall street journal microsoft and google missed analyst expectations in second quarter sales. google faces pressure as advertising shifts towards mobile devices. and microsoft saw a dip do in part to weak demand for pcs which is really only been going on since 199. >> look how technology is change our culture. china daily a second person has reportedly been shocked by an iphone while charging. the 30-year-old man has been in a coma since july 8th. apple is still investigating. >> and from the "miami herald" florida governor rick scott met

with a group of protesters who are on day three of a sit-in protest. known as the dream defenders, this group of college students want to review of the stand your ground law following the a i quital of -- acquittal of george zimmerman. scott was adamant he believes the law should remain in place and the demonstrators say they're not going to leave until their demands are met. >> we should have them on and hear more about that. l.a. times glenn greenwald, will release a book in march 2014. the publisher, the book will contain additional revelations from the documents snowden gave to greenwald. >> and "the washington times," the mother of a suspected art thief in romania -- >> this is painful. >> may have burned a number of the painting allegedly stolen by her son during an art heist last year. according to authorities the burned works include a picasso, a monet, among other works and

the woman said she burned the paintings because she was scared for her son after he was arrested. the works estimated to be worth tens of millions of dollars. >> let's go to this sunday's parade. celebrates the new golden age of barbecue, the most american food is having a renaissance. i don't think so. it can be a little unhealthy. >> it's the best. >> willie, who's the most american of institutions that never needs a renaissance. >> what's that? >> politico? >> politico's mike allen. >> there it is. >> he is all-american as barbecue and snap chat and dvr. >> snap chat. >> being on snap chat while you're on pbr, drinking it down. there's so many american things about mike allen. i don't know where to begin. >> mike allen, yes or no, do you have snap chat on your phone right now? >> i do. and i -- >> oh! >> i agree with mika. i agree with mika that snap chat

has g-rated uses. as always you are right. >> it does not. >> why do you need the evidence to disappear afterwards? >> can you send me one? wait. send me one, mike allen. >> so willie, can you explain really quickly for the 99.7% of the people that are watching that don't know what snap chat is, and why kids use snap chat and parents should be horrified? >> i don't have it on my phone but you take a picture of yourself or anything. >> unlike a funny face. my daughter sends funny faces. >> ten seconds to look at it. >> and then it disappears. >> or video and after ten seconds it disappears into the either. >> joe has to make everything dirty. >> it's like cleaning up a crime scene. >> the serious point the kids don't want to have permanent records. kids are so privacy centric they don't want to have permanent records of stuff they do. >> i'm going to put it on my phone so mike allen can snap chat me. get me someone who's 25 or under. >> mike, let's talk a little business. >> oh, gosh. >> help me understand the steve

cohen story the tennessee democrat, congressman -- >> he's crazy. >> what's going on here? >> this is a congressman who does not need to discover snap chat i'll tell you that. he does not seem to have learned his lesson. so yesterday, when he was asked about the story that we're about to tell you about, he was asked by a woman reporter and he said, you're very attractive but i'm not going to talk about it. that was according to her tweet. so steve cohen, a democrat of tennessee, he was watching the state of the union and he tweeted to an aspiring model in texas who's 40 years younger than him, he tweeted to her happy valentine's day, beautiful girl. i l you. that's safe only for snap chat i would say. >> oh. >> but when he was busted with this public tweet that he apparently thought was private,

happy valentine's day beautiful girl, i lu. he said oh, she's my daughter. that's it. this woman even though this has never been discussed before, never been married before, this is my daughter. sure. well, yesterday, a dna came -- test came back and surprise surprise, not his daughter. her father is the person who has always been thought to be her father and -- >> wow. >> congressman cohen shocked and dismayed he said surprised but still loves her and treasures their time on twitter together. >> we don't want to indict congressman cohen but did the woman at the time of the state of the union, did she say yes, steve cohen is my father? in other words did she go along with the story or did he pull that out of thin air? >> there had been a relationship with his mother and so she didn't immediately deny it and she said aspiring model and seemed to like the publicity.

>> oh, lord. >> and this congressman, yesterday, seemed to still have a problem dealing with women. >> wow. okay. >> ain't that america. >> there's a lot there. politico's mike allen. >> what is that. >> snap chat aficionado. >> and willie and joe, joe is in d.c., out today, the 50 politico's to watch including nbc's frank thorp, a top tweeter and we have a top new category of d.c. celebrities, data hounds, also got players for 2013 maria camelia of the christie campaign, 2016 todd harris of the -- of marco rubio's campaign. 50 to watch. >> glamorous celebrity culture, mike allen. >> i look forward to the snap chat. >> happy friday. >> thanks so much. >> that was glamorous. willie, that cohen guy, the shag carpet is deal all around him, man. you need one of those old carpet rakes to dig up all the -- >> oh.

>> stuff. >> why? >> joe had a carpet rake in his house. >> carpet rake. >> what do you mean i had a carpet rake. i have a carpet rake. who doesn't have a carpet rake still. >> he has one in his van. >> vacuum. folks call that a vacuum. >> oh, geez. what am i supposed to do with my shag carpet on the wall? let stuff stick in there. you got to get it out. >> good point. >> jets head coach rex ryan is back from a nice relaxing vacation. what better way to unwind from coaching the jets in new york city, than to run alongside the bulls in pamplona. what is wrong with you, coach? >> i don't know. >> rex joins the table when "morning joe" comes right back. ready?

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i'm not sure. >> mika, how are you doing with your snap chat. >> mika just received her first snap chat. >> can you share it? >> no. i guess i have it on my phone. >> welcome to snap chat, mika. >> oh, my god. >> getting to know our viewers a little better. >> thank you for that. >> here with us the head coach of the new york jets rex ryan. great to see you. >> great seeing you. >> first thing we said when you sat down, you're down 120

pounds. >> yes. >> how are you doing it? >> i mean, i had that lap band surgery and this is, you know, 2 1/2 years ago. >> wow. >> and quite honestly it was, you know, i knew i had to do something drastic that, you know, i was 350 pounds. so i did a lot of research on it and there's -- you can do the sleeve gastric bypass or the lap band and without a doubt the lap band was the best for me. i looked at the risks, some of the surgery more intense than this and the other thing is, the long-term, you know, the success rate of the long term. the sleeve you can lose weight but gain it back. the same thing with the other procedure. but the lap band, you're constantly like tweaking it, the main thing, you get the right doctor, go to lapband.com to get the right surgeon. that's the key. >> how many times can you count the ways in terms of how much you feel better? >> oh, my gosh. it's unbelievable.

i'm, you know, i lost 120 pounds. and, you know, like i get, you know, i ran with the bulls that everybody talks about. >> you're crazy. >> definitely i've been called that many times. but really, you know, i'm 50 years old but i can still do some of that stuff. and -- >> you might not have made it up the fence. >> what's funny, on this thing, like you run quite a ways. i started in the center of it and my son and i, you know, ran all the way and things like that, but at the end i was looking for my kid. he had already, you know -- it's such a massive group of people, he went through and it was at the end i'm looking around, there's a pileup. the bull turns around. if i was 350 i probably would have taken him on. the fact that i'm 230, no chance. but it was a blast. but really, you know, i'm able to do whatever i want now. >> congratulations. >> thank you. >> exciting. >> that's a big deal and you

look great. let's talk about your football team. obviously all the talk is about your quarterback position. no more tim it tebow. you draft a highly-regarded quarterback out of west virginia, geno smith. who do you expect on the first game in the first snap will be the quarterback of the jets? >> i mean nobody can give you that answer. i will say this, i like our quarterback situation much better than i did the first year i was here. and you know we had success and all that stuff. mark sanchez coming into his fifth season. obviously, you know, he's had his ups and downs and things but there's a lot of things about what mark's accomplished. won four road playoff games and things. but this geno smith is really a talented young man. so the whole team, we're all about competition and certainly that's going to be a lot of competition. >> the job is open right now? >> no question. >> okay. >> yep. >> the aaron hernandez thing opened up a whole conversation about professional football. how hard is it every day to know

that 53 guys on your roster that you just don't know what's going on? i mean, how do you stay on top of things and how fearful are you that any day your whole franchise could change with one incident? >> well, you know, first off, not, you know, talking about him specifically, but i think with your team, like this is the men's league. you know, it's not college football, it's not high school football. everybody's, you know, has to be responsible for themselves. i think that's it. these are all men. so i think it's, you know, upon each individual. >> you think you got a playoff team, coach, this year. >> we're soon going to find out. i'm excited about it. you know, i think our team, you know, the key for us is not going to be -- no individual, one individual, is going to carry this football team. it's going to be, you know, the collective efforts of the entire group, but i think when we left our mini camps, we felt that we had outprepared and outworked every team in the league.

now we'll find out, you know, if that's true or not, but i'm excited about it. >> all right. rex ryan, down 120 pounds and just elusive in the open field against those bulls. >> yes. >> you're out there making people miss. >> oh. >> exciting. >> thanks so much and good luck this season. >> thank you. >> we'll continue this conversation on-line, use the #mojo to tweet in your questions for rex and watch that discussion today on afternoonmojo.msnbc.com. up next mike barnicle joins us from boston, his reaction to the "rolling stone" cover. plus that strange new twist in the whitey bulger trial. mr. boston himself. mike barnicle next. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. mine was earned in djibouti, africa. 2004.

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there's an investigation under way this morning in boston after a man expected to testify against whitey bulger was found dead on the side of the road in a boston suburb. steven rakes has said bulger once tried to force him to sell his liquor store at gunpoint but rakes told the boston herald, quote, i'm not afraid of him anymore. i can't wait to get on the stand and look him right in the eyes. no sign of trauma in rakes' death. friends are skeptical. >> no automobile, no i.d. steve carried his i.d. right here all the time in his pocket. >> do you think he was murdered? >> me? of course. because of how everything has fallen into play here. >> wow. >> joining us from boston mike barnicle. you've been on this story for i don't know how long, 30, 35 years. >> yeah. >> explain who stippo is and his

relationship to whitey bulger. >> steve rakes is from south boston. a very small neighborhood, tight knit neighborhood, everyone knew one another. he at one point owned a liquor store at a busy traffic rotary in south boston, and whitey bulger approached him at one point about buying the liquor store in order to have a place where whitey bulger and his gang could money launder cash through the liquor store. rakes eventually had gunpoint sold the liquor store to the bulgers under threat of death to him, to steve rakes, and the rest has been ongoing saga for 20, 25, 30 years, it's been going, until the other day when steve rakes' body, he was scheduled to testify this week in the federal court trial, against bulger, and he was found dead in a secluded area in the suburb as you indicated about 15 miles west of boston. >> so -- >> no i.d. >> yeah. >> no car. how did he get there?

>> what's the working theory right now, mike? you have good sources in boston law enforcement. obviously everyone's going to look toward whitey bulger or someone associated with him if rakes was, indeed, going to be involved in this trial in some way. what do they think? >> well, what they know is that his body was dumb e-- dumped there. it's a pretty long hike from south boston to quincy, massachusetts, south of boston where rakes lived, out to lincoln massachusetts. it's a long hike on a pretty hot day. the body was clearly dumped there with no i.d. now as to whitey bulger's role in steve rakes' death, that is really up in the air because there's nothing left in terms of whitey bulger's ability really to reach out and have someone do a contract hit for him at this stage. we have to wait for the medical examiner to come back with his report, that could be two or three weeks, but one thing is for certain, steve rakes is just

one more victim in a pretty sordid story. >> and it goes on. a heated day in the courtroom as well. another big story up in boston, mike, got to get your take on, is the cover of "rolling stone" that was yesterday. now today we're talking about sergeant sean murphy, the tactical photographer who took photographs of tsarnaev at the moment he came out of that boat. you know, he said, sergeant murphy, said he was doing it to serve as a counter way to what he thought was a glamourized, romanticized version of tsarnaev on the cover of "rolling stone" magazine. what's been the reaction up there? >> well, you know, i think the reaction has been kind of muted among ordinary people. it's been a vivid reaction, obviously, in the media in terms of the coverage. we have the option of not buying the magazine. there are actually some pretty important component parts in the reporting piece that accompanies the picture. the picture is way, way too, you know, pretty for a monster like

young tsarnaev but if you look at the piece, read the piece, it gets us to a point where we've got to start thinking about how do young people who grow up -- and he grew up here in the united states of america -- how do they disappear into this haze of hatred that caused him to become a monster and kill people at the boston marathon? we've got to figure that out. >> all right. mike barnicle, all this plus yankees/red sox this weekend. up believable what's going on up there. we'll see you soon. >> okay. >> coming up, vice president joe biden leaves the door open to a possible presidential run. michael hainey joins us with "gq's" exclusive interview. "morning joe" will be right back.

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still ahead on "morning joe," we'll talk to david axelrod and the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory joins the discussion. "morning joe" back in a moment. vo: traveling you definitely end up meeting a lot more people but a friend under water is something completely different. i met a turtle friend today so, you don't get that very often. it seemed like it was more than happy to have us in his home. so beautiful. avo: more travel. more options. more personal.

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markets do not work if you don't have an umpire. you cannot let the linesmen on the football team call the holding penalty. you cannot let the wall street firms get away with this thing called self-regulation. it will lead to another cataclysm. >> what does this have to do with that? that's not the job of the comptroller. why do you want this job? before you had your fall from grace or whatever her name was, do you -- before you had your fall from grace, you were the governor of the state. >> right. >> you were the governor. aren't you one at the same time above and below this job? >> that's why -- that's why i'm trying to get right in the middle. little goldilocks here. >> wow. okay. that's a different angle. >> colbert. >> yep. he's good. welcome back to "morning joe." top of the hour. willie geist, brian shactman, steve ratner still with us along with joe and me.

michael steele and sam stein in washington and joining us also from washington, moderator of "meet the press," gregory. >> good morning. >> we'll get to our top story. want to go to detroit. we are actually going to detroit next month. going to do the show live there and look at these issues. city officials have officially filed for bankruptcy protection. known as the birth place of the american auto industry and the iconic motown records the city has racked up at least $18 billion in debt. listing more than 100,000 creditors. it now becomes the largest city in u.s. history to file for chapter 9. it is a stunning but not entirely surprising turn of events. detroit's population soared during the rise of the auto industry in the 20th century, peaking at around 1.8 million back in 1950. now the population has fallen to just over 700,000 people. a 26% plunge in the past decade. the unemployment rate over 18%.

and the city never really recovered from the housing crisis. for now the future of detroit remains far from certain with no clear road map to how the motor city survives. the bankruptcy will impact the 9500 city employees and 20,000 retirees, many of whom could face cuts to pensions and other city programs. and joe, moving forward, there's so many questions in terms of what this means for detroit and our economy overall. >> no doubt about it. i want to follow up with steve ratner. you talked last hour about pengs that might have to be cut and benefits that may be a bit to generous and again, there has been, as i said last hour, there have been conservatives who have complained for some time that a lot of these benefit packages are too generous. of course, there are people who subsist on these and cuts in these benefits and these pensions will have a devastating impact on their personal life lives. but isn't this the same situation you saw at general motors when you had to go in and

try to save gm? >> sure. gm had problems with pensions and particularly with retiree health care benefits that looked a lot like -- >> does detroit have the same problems? >> they have similar problems, but there's one huge difference. detroit has had declining revenues for many years now because of the fall in population we talked about. detroit actually -- general motors had the hope of rising revenues as they sold more cars. detroit may or may not have a viable economic model. general motors we believed had a viable economic model and could manage our way through it. an important distinction between the two i think is going to be an issue in this, which is general motors got $50 billion of government support to help its way through bankruptcy. so far, nobody is offering detroit anything in this current political environment we live in to help its way through bankruptcy and i think you're going to see that discussion start as we get into this. >> it's really incredible. brian shactman, you were saying earlier and we were trying to

get together the sound bite of president obama a few years ago. >> right. >> you played it on "way too early." we have it. this is unfortunate on a number of levels. let's take this to david gregory. take a look at the president a few years ago talking about -- >> just a few years ago the auto industry wasn't just struggling it was flatlining. gm and chrysler were on the verge of collapse. we refused to throw in the towel and do nothing, we refused to let detroit go bankrupt. i bet on american workers and ingenuity and that bet is paying off in a big way. >> david gregory, that was lasty actually. >> yeah remember the bumper sticker for the campaign, if i have it right, osama bin laden is dead and gm is alive or something to that effect and it goes to show you, as we've looked over past two administrations who look at the auto companies, that their health or lack of health, is not enough to impact what's happening in the city. i think steve ratner talked about it earlier. the city where my mother was

born, detroit, has still experienced a stunning flight from the city of people living in the city and what's left behind, blighted neighborhoods, a housing crisis that has an incredible impact, loss of jobs and city government unable to get out from underneath that. we look at whether it's in places like vallejo, california where states going through so much debt and pension explosions, are unable to recover. so ultimately what does this say about our macro economic recovery in the country when you have states and municipalities who still can't get from underneath this financial collapse. >> michael steele, the president obviously is going to be criticized by opponents for saying what he said. he's president of the united states and he deserves that. he's in the arena. he should get knocked around for making a statement. i'm not doing the president's bidding with what i'm about to

say. what i'm about to say, the fact if we look at the last two or three or four or five or ten years and trying to explain what's happening happened in detroit, we're going to miss the bigger picture. david hall ber shan wrote "the reckoning" about the collapse of detroit and rise of japan and the end -- total american dominance in the auto industry, he wrote that book if i'm not mistaken in 1981. 1982 in the heart of the reagan era. this is a problem that has been going on since the mid to late 1960s. since japan started rebuilding the factories that were destroyed in world war 2 and we have to take a wholistic view of this problem if we're going to figure out how to get detroit back on its feet, 10, 20 years from now. >> well, i take all of that to heart because it's very true. there's a long history here. the thing about detroit that is fascinating and i've had several

conversations over the years with mayor being before he was mayor and since being mayor, and the one thing that keeps coming back is that detroit, as the economy globally and certainly here in the united states began to change and evolve into a different type of economy, never diversified. it was always still anchored in the heart of the auto industry. and so its future was really tied to that, as we saw the auto industry expand its horizons and begin to move not just around the country and relocating at different places and building new factories and putting emphasis in different sectors of -- or different parts of the country, it also began to expand globally. detroit never adapted to this environment by diversifying its local economy, so that it could sustain the work force and expand it as this economy grew. now the challenge is going to be, and i really take to heart

what steve ratner has been putting on the table, how does the government and private sector work out a formulation that allows the centerpiece of this economy, the auto industry, stay a part of that but expand it so families and communities can begin to evolve around this new economy and detroit back on its feet. that's going to be a challenge and we're talking hundreds of billions of dollars, not just $20 billion or $30 billion there in the shortfall right now. >> joe, some of the problems that you're seeing in other cities, chicago is one, you hear mayor rahm emanuel talk about the kinds of tradeoffs that are going to be necessary if you want to have quality education system or continue to be able to pay some of the pensions which seem to be unsustainable across the board, some of the difficult choices that have to be made. how does a city like detroit starting from so far behind get into the place where they're making tough choices. >> yeah. >> steve, there are a lot of reasons detroit got to this day. you've been pointing them out all morning. one is the liabilities. something like $18 billion.

is it too far a reach to say this could be a preview of coming attractions for the federal government, which is to say, down the road with social security and medicare, we're going to have more people taking from the system than we have putting in? >> let me say a couple things about what was said before quickly and then get to that. first, there are cities that have successfully reinvented themselves. pittsburgh is one that comes to mind as a city that had a one company town aspect to it and is now a thriving city. secondly, those jobs didn't all leave michigan. they just left the city, a lot just left the city of detroit and moved to the suburbs as you go into this downward spiral of services not being very good. three, to your point, yes, it is an extreme microcosm of the kinds of things we're doing in washington in terms of taking on liabilities for future beneficiaries of medicare, of social security, and of government debt, that are going to be hard for us to deal with. of course we have a rising population, not a falling population. the u.s. government can tax.

so i'm not -- i wouldn't start ringing alarm bells and saying detroit is like the rest of america but it does show you what can happen when you don't manage your finances very well and i don't think we're managing our finances well in washington. >> mika, what's so ironic, think about it, 1950, people in north dakota probably looked eastward to detroit and thought wow, if i could only go there and get a job. just talk about how their pockets of prosperity even now, i mean they can't find enough people to work in energy in north dakota where there's a revolution going on in that part of the country, that's going to sweep across the country and it's going to impact our economy over the next 25 to 30 years, in remarkably dramatic ways. it's -- it's just so ironic that detroit, which was really, it was the benchmark for american success, half a century ago, has fallen to this position.

>> and brian you pointed out in the break, there are people and companies investing in detroit and this will be a question of if the government will be allowed to do, what they can do, in light of this bankruptcy filing, but there are people really investing and trying. >> billions. >> to bring this city around. >> and just quickly, you need to move the conversation forward to. it's a city for a footprint for 2 million and has 700,000. i go to pro sports because they have four great pro sports teams. it has the foundation to keep that community solid. how many cities in america would love to have that foundation so there's something to be done there, but i think we need to sort of -- don't want to get cliche, more creative in the urban planning because the city is too big for what it has. >> there's tremendous opportunity here, maybe too soon to say that. >> and mika, by the way, there are some people that are going in and snapping up hundreds of millions of dollars in property because they're smart. they know there's that

infrastructure, they know that jobs are coming back. they know the business is coming back. billions have been invested and we have to let everybody that's watching the show know this. billions have been invested in detroit and you want to talk about a buy low opportunity right now, i just believe that the very things that made detroit the center of american industry in the past, could be there again. they have the infrastructure, they have the location, they have a lot of opportunities. so you have i think ceo of quickin' i thought -- >> daniel -- >> bought a billion dollars of property downtown because he knows detroit is going to come back and when detroit comes back, he's going to be sitting pretty. >> all right. let's move on -- >> as if he's not already. >> a political rival of russian president vladimir putin has been sentenced to five years in prison. opposition leader alexie novany was convicted of embezzlement. he tweeted through the reading

of his verdict in court. this morning, interesting, less than 24 hours after sentencing in a surprise announcement, he has been released. prosecutors say that's because he is a candidate in this fall's moscow mayoral race. keeping him in custody would deny his rights. dubbed putin's influential opponent he is a popular blogger and lawyer who rose to prominence with anti-corruption investigations into state owned companies. those investigations targeted many putin loyalists from members of parliament to state bankers. since then he has organized some of the largest anti-government demonstrations in the country. david gregory, this is on the front page of the "new york times." there's a bigger picture here. looking at our relationship with russia, obama's relationship with vladimir putin, where does this story, how does it play into some of the concerns that we may have already? >> i think we're going through this reckoning where we have to get real about what russia is today, what our relationship is with russia, and who vladimir putin is.

i was in slovenia in 2001 when president bush said i looked into his eyes and realized i could trust him. that was undone within a matter of years, even during the bush years, as vladimir putin sought to undo what the united states was trying to do in a lot of parts of the world. you fast forward to president obama and the fact that the russians are propping up the syrian regime, the fact that russians still have such an interest in trying to project the greatness of russia's past. this is what this administration faces. and the administration is going to have a choice to make when it comes to the fall about participating in summits with vladimir putin who shows flickers sometimes of wanting to be a partner but i think he's far less of a partner than he was in the early days after 9/11 which is partnership of the united states looking away from what he was doing in chechnya. >> this is -- i mean everything from the pictures of him with his shirt off running around on

top of horses or whatever else, i mean he has a massive ego, number one. and his handling, sam stein, do we still have sam? of snowden, i think is representative of something bigger. by the way, glenn greenwald is writing a book. hope he doesn't threaten the government in that. in terms of his handling of the snowden situation, sam stein, what do you make of it? does it tell us something else about something we should be concerned about with vladimir putin? >> well, i, too, share your concerns about the shirtless photos on top of horses. >> yeah. >> for the handling of snowden, it's confusing. on the one hand he's giving him some space, obviously, because snowden remains as far as we know in the moscow airport and now he's flirting with the idea of granting him asylum. on the other hand he's put out these public guarantees he would not tolerate snowden leaking information that would danger u.s. national security. so it's sort of a microcosm, i guess, of the u.s./russian relationship at large in which you have both tones going in

each direction. it's tough to make sense of it all. >> joe, i don't think it's unclear at all. i think he's mocking us and at some point we have to come to terms where he stands and it's not to work together. >> yeah. exactly. you know the thing is, obviously russia can be a critical ally, not just in syria, they could possibly -- >> they could be. >> a critical alley in iran, they could be. they could be a critical ally in so many places but the reality of the u.s./russian relationship for over a decade now, has been a reality that you have russia -- and i remember david recommend recomme remnick ub talking to the foreign minister, he and richard haas and others were stunned by the level of resentment in every single answer. that was five years ago. our relationship with -- i almost said the soviets. because it's getting so bad.

our relationship with the russians is difficult for one reason and that's because vladimir putin wants to do everything he can to rub our noses in whatever and to show resentment, to thumb his nose at us. it's not just making john kerry, our secretary of state, wait three hours, by the way if i were secretary of state and somebody had me waiting more than 30 minutes i would go back to the hotel and -- that's what we need to start doing. you remember every meeting with barack obama he has always slumped in his chair, he's all bent over backwards to be disrespectful. the snowden situation, disrespectful. he is sending a message to his people that he doesn't need us. i think it's time for this president to do what george w. bush didn't do, and send a message back to russia and say, we're not going to be your straw man anymore.

if you want to play tough guy, have the chinese come and visit you because we're done with it. and really quickly, david gregory, i'm just wondering if the president can make some sort of statement at the g-20 coming up in st. petersburg and, you know, i hear they may be canceling a couple events. i might even consider just not going. >> not going and then you think about the winter olympics as well. where's the leverage there. i think about the last winter olympics and the invasion into georgia and president bush trying to have some influence. i think you're right. over and over again, this is putin trying to embarrass the united states and i think the question is what leverage do we have. these big international meetings on the world stage can send some message. i mean i think that the administration officials would also tell you, it's worth staying at it, at least privately, to get help on issues like iran. but every corner you turn,

russia's looking after its own interests which is not -- which is understandable, but really trying to be a thorn in the side of the united states. there's some leverage there to use because let's be honest, russia is a lot more isolated than it used to be. more isolated than it was a decade ago. >> i think one point that's -- >> i'm sorry, joe. >> at the end, if the russians want to be granted the respect that they so desire and move past resentment and respect, they're going to have to stop, mika, holding fugitives that are holding basically america's national security at risk and stop protecting a tyrant in syria that's killed over 100,000 people in his own country. there have to be consequences to their actions. i'm not saying to boycott the olympics but i am saying, we're going to have to get creative and do more than just put out nice little pronouncements from the state department about how we're offended by some of their

actions which are abhorrent. >> some ways it almost works to putin's favor if a lot of those things happen too. if this is the only way they can stay relevant, i think there's desperation in how they behave too, because they've seen china and how they've rose to prominence and russia isn't the factor it once was and there's a little of that involved with all the rhetoric that people sometimes gloss over. >> we're going to have to get creative because i'm not sure what it is we can do to the russians that is going to bother them or bring them to the table or stop them from behaving like this. >> david gregory, thank you very much. who do you have on sunday's "meet the press"? >> a congressional panel including peter king and others, and steve king, to talk about the moment of truth here on issues like health care and immigration for congress this summer. >> all right. thank you very much. david we'll be watching "meet the press" this sunday. still ahead, congressman peter king says he's concerned the republican party is being defined by senators ted cruz and rand paul. we're going to ask him about the tensions within the gop in a few

minutes. up next, decision makers. national journal's adam kushner joins us with a profile of the top officials driving the obama administration and how they stack up against the president's team from four years ago. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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26 past the hour. joining us now from washington, executive editor of the national journal, adam kushner. the latest issue features a special report on 250 top officials steering the obama administration's second term. adam, take us through it. you're looking at 250. how senior do they go and what are you looking for? >> all the way. we start with we want to know who are the most important people running the government and we start with all of the senate confirmed positions, cabinet secretaries, assistant secretaries. we subtract the ambassadors, add

some important people like chiefs of staff, and the white house is a little more subjective. we asked our readers and editors who's important. we profile all of them and find interesting things. one thing we found this year for the first time, that we've been doing this survey which is every four years, now white men represent a minority of people in top administration posts. they're just under half. before they were just over half. the distribution of folks is interesting. there are a very elite group. four out of ten of the top 250 have ifby league degrees. more graduated from harvard than any other university in the world. there are more people with degrees from oxford than any public school in the united states. >> this is an elite group. >> it is a very elite group and compounding the sort of elite sense of them, is the fact that only 18% of them grew up in states that went red, voted for

mitt romney, and, you know, texas is the most -- second most populace state in the nation. we have four of the top 250 officials from texas compared to 40 from new york. >> michael steele has a question for you. mike until. >> hey, good to see you, man. in light of all the excitement over the nuclear option and the cur firmation process and all of that, you guys dig down a little bit deep into that. how have you viewed this confirmation process and exposed it? you give a couple good examples, mccarthy's process and the campbell couple, the couple who, you know -- one gets the job, the other doesn't. how does this confirmation process broken down in light of the talent that's at the table? >> that's a great question and spot on because the confirmation process is totally screwed up. you know, first of all, it's become very difficult and very slow for the white house to vet and send people to the senate. it's become very difficult and slow for the senate to vet and

confirm them and that process is extremely slowed down. there are now 192 nominees waiting confirmation and what's happening in the senate, thanks largely to partisan strife, is that senators are putting holds sometimes on all nominees like richard shell nb did in 2010 when he didn't like the way a defense contract was being executed in his state and sometimes members block nominees because they're afraid they'll enforce laws they don't like. the bureau of alcohol and tobacco and firearms hasn't had a leader since 2006 and the epa, there are lots of positions just going unfilled. commerce department hasn't had a leader for a year. you bring up a great example of the senate. they had one couple, curt campbell who was nominated to be an assistant secretary in the state department and brainard, nominated to be the head of economics. this is a husband and wife team, same tax records, same forms

they're filling out. the senate foreign relations committee clears campbell to go work at the state department right away and they hold brain nard for a year. in the middle of the global financial crisis, america is missing its most important global negotiator for the crisis response because they said her tax records weren't up to snuff. the same ones her husband submitted to the other committee. >> mika, let's -- i want to go back and stop for one minute. let's put up this full screen about where members of this administration went to school and you see, again, this is a stunning statistic, more went to oxford than any other public university in the united states of america. you talk about a disconnect from washington. look at that harvard and yale, cornell, princeton, and more went to oxford than any public

university in the united states of america. there's that raging disconnect. and it goes with so many -- so many administrations. you know, the bush administration -- >> absolutely. >> seemed like everybody that was running the war, if you wanted to go to baghdad and run the war, it sure helped to be able to look good in certain kind of boots and have a yale degree. it's just -- there's that -- i mean this accounts for such a disconnect, not only between america and washington, d.c., but also between the people that are running our government understanding the concerns of middle-class america. >> you bring up a good point in this disconnect has been representative on both sides of the aisle, in previous administrations and steve ratner, it's the tension between getting the best and the brightest and having the diversity and the point of view and the background needed to bring to the table. >> certainly i agree with that.

there is, as adam pointed out, a lot of diversity at least in terms of background and things like that. knowing a lot of those people, there is diversity in terms of their life stories and where they came from. even though they went to harvard or yale a lot did come from more modest backgrounds. i would say two things on one of the points adam made. i was sitting in treasury when that story about the couple one of whom got confirmed, one didn't get confirmed, happened and i watched the senate finance committee torture brainard and make her have her little home office audited three times to see if the square footage comported with the amount of square footage she was deducting on her tax return and it was an extraordinary process and it has an effect of dissuading good people from applying to be in the government. i want to underscore, the holdups are not just at the senate. the white house says no for -- because they're scared of the senate to many, many people good people whose names you never know and hear about because they're too afraid to send the

names to the senate. we have a major problem getting the best people into the government. >> taking years and years, adam, for them to get there. >> absolutely right. john kerry confirmed as secretary of state has been traveling all over the world and he comes from the senate foreign relations committee, he's been doing these confirmations for years, and he now testifying in front of the senate is saying oh, my god this is such a problem, i have so many nominees that we've even agreed to submit but the vetting is taking forever not only on the white house end but the senate side. the senate has begun asking these questions for response. a newer and sort of onerous development. once upon a time they would submit in writing to nominees a few queries from senators, answer them. the treasury is a good department. used to be about 30 for lloyd bentsen when nominated by clinton. steadily increasing every year until timothy geithner was asked 190 questions and when jack lew was nominated he had to answer

almost 500. mccarthy who was confirmed to run the epa, had to answer 1500 questions. this what is a hearing is supposed to be for. >> mika, i want to go back. you were talking about it's a balance between getting the best and brightest. you know this, choose between the best and brightest and having a more diverse background, they're the best and brightest at university -- at university of virginia or university of michigan or i will say university of alabama or university of florida, or any of the california -- i mean, there are so many bright people, gifted people, talented people, that come out of state schools that don't get the chance because they didn't go to an ivy. and it's not just who the obama administration or the bush administration or the clinton

administration hired. think about this fact. every president that wee have had since ronald reagan retired, left, you know, january 20th, 1989, went to yale or harvard. >> that's right. >> or both. >> it's a club. >> if you want to know why our leaders in washington, d.c., are disconnected with the realities of america, look no further than the diplomas that hang on their walls. we're the ones that elect them. there's a serious problem. you got to go to two schools and come from two or three families or come from two or three families to dance in the big dance. that's just not right. >> no. it has to do with being in a club, having access to certain connections and money and lots of things that play into it that have led to the reality you described. it has been happening for -- back to reagan, i think. it's not just on one side of the aisle. >> you have bush 41, yale.

clinton, of course, yale. bush 43, yale and harvard, be and then president obama you know, columbia and harvard. >> adam, we'll be looking for the new issue of "national journal." thank you very much, adam kushner. very interesting. coming up, most of the nation continues to suffer through this oppressive heat wave. bill karins will tell us when it's going to break and also some severe storms that could follow. and the hot weather may not be helping the wild first out west as well. more on "morning joe" next. [ male announcer ] progress isn't about where you've been.

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40 past the hour. in southern california, firefighters are holding back a massive wildfire that has already burned more than 22,000 acres. more than 3,000 crew members are working to contain the blaze with the assistance of 19 helicopters and 10 aerial tankers. evacuation orders have been lifted for two areas no longer

considered in danger of the so-called mountain fire. so far there have been no fatalities but three firefighters have been treated for minor injuries. as of last night the fire was still only 15% contained. investigators believe the fire was manmade and have not determined the exact cause. the fire about two miles outside of palm springs. let's go to bill karins with more on the heat wave. >> i'm about to talk about the end of the heat wave for millions. in the west as we go through the weekend will only get worse instead of better. areas like oregon from upper 90s to mid 100s, like 105 through the upcoming weekend. relief for some, but not everyone. and here's just the amazing upside down summer we are having. everyone calls it hot-atlanta. they've only had five 90 degree days this summer. boston has had 14. that's an amazing stat that has been much hotter this summer in areas of the mid-atlantic and northeast that the deep south. as far as today goes, it's a very dangerous day.

just like yesterday. 95 million people under heat warnings or advisories including most of the big cities of i-95 from boston to d.c. it already feels like 91 in philadelphia. later this afternoon it will probably feel like about 105. as far as the end of the heat wave today it ends in minneapolis and then as we go through the weekend, saturday it's over with in the great lakes and then finally on sunday, the heat wave will end for the northeast. i mean 86 is still warm in new york, but it will feel refreshing considering what we're dealing with today. >> fantastic. looking forward to that. up next, what vice president joe biden told "gq" about a possible run for the presidency. deputy editor michael haney joins us with that. and a profile of bryan cranston, "breaking bad." "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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carlson. let's both of us stop trying to justify this whole thing and admit you're in danger. >> who are you talking to right now? who is it you think you see? do you know how much i make a year? i mean, even if i told you, you wouldn't believe it. do you know what would happen if i suddenly decided to stop going into work? a business, big enough it could be listed on the nasdaq goes belly up, disappears, it ceases to exist without me. no, you clearly don't know who you're talk ug to. let me clue you in, i am not in danger, sky lar. i am the danger. a guy opens his door and gets shot and you think that of me. no. i am the one who knocks.

>> that was a scene from amc's emmy nominated series "breaking bad." "gq" features the star bryan cranston on its new cover and the magazine's deputy editor michael haney with serious hair going today. >> i need a hair cut. >> seriously. >> i know. >> my eyes opened wider just looking at you. >> i left the house this morning. my wife said, you need a hair cut. >> i know. >> right after this i promise. >> i can tell you have. this issue looks amazing. we will get to biden in a second. i have heard so much about this show. >> right. >> as you know, i don't have time to watch any television at all but everybody tells me watch this show. >> my 77-year-old mother is watching it. >> binge watching it. >> binge watch. i'll do a binge watch. >> the great thing, it's one of the great character transformations in tv. everyone talks about tony soprano and "mad men" and what he does on this show, he starts off as mr. chips and ends as

scarface. it's all going to end this season. everyone wonders how it's going to end. the creator of the show vince gilligan he says he's not giving anything away but always references "m.a.s.h." at the end everyone wanted to go home. >> it looks like an incredible charact character. >> i watched some of them. we didn't quite get into it. it's interesting watching this clip you can see how much the characters transformed from the early episodes i did see. >> the tony soprano less menace that's there. >> what happens to him as an actor when he has to go on to other projects. this has elevated his status. >> he started on "mall cole m in the middle" playing this bumbling dad. great range. >> in the issue, biden 2016 and what he feels about the concept. >> joe biden 2016. the great detail in this piece, two portraits in his office in washington. one of thomas jefferson and one of john adams. as he says in the piece, both vice presidents who became

presidents. so you know, he's not confirming anything yet, but i think there's -- certainly the big question for him, if hillary runs or not. >> oh. joe, go ahead. >> if hillary does run, though, do you get the sense that's going to make his decision for him or might he go ahead and run even if hillary jumps in? >> i think he could run even if hillary jumps in. that puts president obama in a tough place, who does he straddle the fence for? we've gamed it out here, if hillary doesn't run he has a straight shot. if hillary runs it's going to be an interesting race and i think, you know, that gives us all in the press a great six months to write about. >> straight shot you think if hillary doesn't run? >> on the democratic side? >> i think he's so underestimated. you're questioning that? >> i'm questioning it as a straight shot. >> who's in your magic deck. >> we don't know. we don't know. as we all know politics is unpredictable. we saw what happened with barack obama. i just don't think -- i like joe biden and i think he's very

capable and he did a great job as vp. he is going to be on the older end of the scale. i just think it's really hard to say there's not going to be a serious contender. >> it's his to lose if hillary >> how old will biden be by the time -- >> he'll be 70 i believe at that time. >> 70? no. i think he's more like 74 at the time. >> yes, he's 70 now. as he says in the piece, 70's the new 60. >> of course he does. >> hillary clinton, 69. maybe hillary's going to be doing the liz cheney and talking about her youth and -- >> i just have a feeling -- >> a new generation of leadership -- >> i have a feeling hillary might be more politically nimble than that. i could be wrong. >> what will be interesting is the jockeying between here and now because hillary will not announce for probably a year and a half. between now and then, each side has to gather their supporters and know what their base is going to be if they rub.

run. it will be interesting to watch. >> you're doing it, you're not doing it, all that back room stuff. >> what else are we seeing in gq? >> i wish you were here today, joe, because we got our 50 best things to eat -- >> oh, i went there. >> beginning with the croque-nut. >> this is really cool, we go across the country basically gorging. >> we've got the 50 best things, beginning with west port, connecticut. one of my fasts is the chinese pork belly sandwich at the butcher and bee down in south carolina. i don't know where you are, joe, or i'll find a place for you to go. >> don't tell him. >> where does it look like i am, schenecta schenectady?

>> steve says you're in a bunker. >> is this real? >> yeah, that's the rebel wolf inn in san francisco. that's what you eat for breakfast there. >> ew. >> what do you mean ew, that looks great. >> why wouldn't you put biden on the cover? >> because joe -- >> he doesn't -- >> he's a handsome man, believe me. he's got great pictures inside. >> yeah, with the sunglasses. >> he needs a better publicist. >> they should have fought harder. look at this, come on. huh, huh, come on. presidential look, huh. >> did you know that biden stuttered severely as a child? >> yeah. >> i did not. >> he overcame it. now you'd never know it. >> you had tight cropped hair as a kid too, right? >> i did. i'll bring in a picture of me with a crew cut. >> you look great. >> thank you, dear. you guys can all talk about my

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up next, detroit files for

bankruptcy. what the move means for the future of the city. and how long it will take to get its finances back in order. steve ratner breaks down the numbers. and new reaction to the controversial cover of rolling stoeb magazine featuring dzhokhar tsarnaev. "morning joe" will be right back. er ybody has different investment objectives, er ideas, goals, appetite for risk. you can't say 'one size fits all'. it doesn't. that's crazy. we're all totally different. ishares core. etf building blocks for your personalized portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus, which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. vietnam in 1972. [ all ] fort benning, georgia in 1999.

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as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on set, we have steve ratner, sam stein, michael steele in washington. we'll start with detroit. after years of decline, city officials have officially filed for bankruptcy protection. known as the birthplace of the american auto industry and the iconic motown records. the city has racked up at least $18 billion in debt. listing more than 100,000 creditors. it now becomes the large et city in u.s. history to file for chapter 9. it's a stunning but not entirely surprising turn of events. detroit's population soared during the rise of the auto industry in the 20th century, peaking at around $1 million in 1850. now the population has fallen to just over 700,000. a 26% plunge in the past decade. the unemployment rate is over 18%. and the city never really

recovered from the housing crisis. today, close to 80,000 homes have been abandoned. the median value the ones still occupied is below $40,000. crime is also is a major problem in detroit. as the city's homicide rate is at historically high levels. ranking among america's most dangerous cities for more than 20 years. for now, the future of detroit remains far from certain, with no clear road map to how the motor city survives. the filing begins a three-month process to determine if the city even qualifies for chapter 9 protection. and who would be eligible for settlement funds. there's no doubt the move will impact the 9,500 city employees and 20,000 retirees, many of whom could face cuts to pensions and other city programs. joe, we've been watching this story for several years now. from a number of different ang angles. i'm not surprised. but i think there's so many questions now. >> yeah, there really are.

and of course the great tragedy of detroit is, you know, the middle of last century, around 1850, it was the wealthiest city in america. and the most powerful city on the face of the earth. it represented really what was good about american industry going back to henry ford and the revolution that he created in a farm field. what was good for general motors was good for america. that was a famous phrase. and it was the truth too. boy, there's been such a downfall. there's been a downfall starting in the mid-60s. let's go to steve ratner. you've got people on left that are going to blame let's say the reagan era and the coldness when it came to a series of cuts. you've got conservatives that talk about all of the pension plans and just how excessive they are. the fact that there's a living wage there.

a, quote, living wage, that it's higher than the regular wage. and that there's one regulation after another after another that's brought detroit down. at the end of the day, steve, aren't those just ideological arguments? isn't this really just about an auto industry that moved overseas? >> it is in part, joe. you're right to trace the the decline of detroit going back a ways. what's interesting about the other bankruptcies that you showed a moment ago is they all had effects. jefferson county in alabama had a bad financing. they were in some ways misled by their bankers. all cutbacks that resulted from. detroit sort of stands on its own both in its size and regions for bankruptcy. the very factors that took detroit in 1920 to the fourth most populous city in america

are the same factors that brought it to its demise which is the automobile. in the sense that what detroit suffered from, probably greater extent than any american city was declining population. and population are like customers. they're your revenue base in order to run your city. if you go back to 1950, detroit had over 1.8 million residents in it. it was the fourth largest city as you talked about. from 1950 all the way to today, without necessarily any sign of it abating, the population has just gone down, down, down, down, down. to a little over 700,000 at the moment. >> steve, what was so surprising about detroit -- or the genius of henry ford, and it was, really, an extraordinary business move on his part, early on in the company's history, he decided he was going to lower the cost of the car. he was going to raise wages. 'cause he said he wanted to make

it that everybody on the assembly line could buy a car. well, when you start talking about the city's population going down, because the jobs at gm and ford were going down, it just became this terrible cycle that fed on itself. less workers. less people with money to do what henry ford said they would do. go out and buy the family car at the factory where they made it. >> but it was also a second problem which is emblematic of america. which is flight from the cities. detroit became afflicted by some of the same factors that affect every city. the automobile ironically was somewhat responsible for detroit's demise. they moved out to the leafier cities outside of detroit. you had the city becoming less safe. more people left the city. before it was over, if you go to detroit, as i have done many

times, you will see a shell of a city. you will see whole blockings in which there's one or two houses left, whole occupancy. you know what the average price of a house sold that month in detroit was? >> $9,000. >> very close. it was $5,000. you could buy a house in detroit for $5,000. because everybody wanted to get out. and that led to terrible city finances. >> really. >> the next question, steve, what does it mean for an entire u.s. city to go bankrupt. >> what does it mean for detroit, chapter 9 bankruptcy. that very long protracted. they're twice the size of any city that has ever used it before which is stockton, california. looking at it from a financial perspective, maybe the way to make the numbers work will be massive numbers of debt and more importantly significant changes

in pensions and health care benefits. personally, think this is a place where government will have to step in. >> couple of other big stories. the fallout from the "rolling stone" cover controversy continues this morning. in response to what may have been called glamorized, even rock star treatment, of dzhokhar tsarnaev, a photographer with the massachusetts state police released a series of photos showing the alleged bomber in a decidedly less glamorous state. the previously unseen images show the accused killer with a red laser sight trained on his head. the graphic pictures were given to boston magazine by sergeant sean murphy. he wrote that the "rolling stone" cover was an insult to anyone who has ever worn a uniform. adding, quote, photography is very simple, very basic. it image like this on the cover of "rolling stone," we see it instantly as being wrong.

what "rolling stone" did was wrong. this guy is evil. this is the real boston bomber. not someone fluffed and buffed for the cover of "rolling stone" magazine. the editor of "boston magazine" later tweeted that murphy has since been relieved of duty and stripped of his gun, badge and computer. and nbc news is still working to independently verify that reporting it but fallout from the fallout of the "rolling stone" cover. >> well, willie, i mean, you can certainly understand why this police officer would want to do that. and actually show -- i think this is very important for any idiot that would be looking at the "rolling stone" cover, deciding they're going to go out in a blaze of glory and get a glamour "rolling stone" cover. this shows -- this shows the other side of it. and i'm kind of glad the cop did it. >> sergeant murphy may have been relieved of his post, but i think he spoke for a lot of people in that police department, a lot of people in

the city of boston, when he put out that counterimage. this is obviously -- this cover of "rolling stone" has really struck a chord across the country but obviously particularly in boston. almost universally across the board up there, people have viewed it negatively and think it's an insult. i think a lot of people up there back what sergeant murphy did yesterday. >> he obviously broke the rules with the state police but the point he's trying to make adds to the conversation significantly. we'll follow that as well. let's go to politics. one potential obstacle for cheney's bid in wyoming will be the impression she just moved there for the office. saying this, i like liz, i've been a longtime friend of her

father's. but it will be portrayed, as they've been away from the state a long time, a housewife who's kind of bored who moved back to well with after a long time to run for the senate. that's not a state like california or new york where you can carpetbag very easily. he did add later that he liked both candidates but wished she was running somewhere else. when asked for comment, miss cheney told the hill, quote, i am a fourth generation wyomingite. my family first came here in 1825, walking the mormon trail in search of religious freedom. my great grandfather setted here in 1907. wyoming has always been home. there you go. >> and she's not a bored housewife. michael steele, this race may get good. i mean, this may be a good one. liz talking about the new generation of leadership and then talking about how senator

enzi must have just been confused, you know, while he was dipping his crackers in his milk to make it soft enough, be able to chew and digest them easily. and now we have ed rollins coming back saying she's a bored housewife and a carpetbagger. going to be a lot of back and forths here, aren't there? >> it's amazing that 24 hours out of the gate, both sides have, quote, stepped in it, if you've just very well illustrated. liz cheney with her, you know, ageist comment and ed rollins with his sexist comment about liz. but at the end of the day, rollins was making an underlying point, which is going to be something to watch, is that the people of wyoming are very sensitive about carpetbagging and why the issue's been raised already and the fact that, you know, liz is saying i'm a wyomingite, that's great, that's great, but you haven't lived there, you have not been a part of that community of culture

forever. so there is that aspect of it that will be played out. if that portends how this campaign is going to be, it's going to be a doozy. >> ed rollins is a good guy. i bet he wishes he could have that one back. what's the reaction inside the state of wyoming? we're hearing a lot of beltway talk about liz cheney for obvious reasons. mike enzi was a very popular senator. he remains a popular senator. what's the reaction inside the state to liz cheney jumping in? >> with the comment, i don't get why carpetbagging in wyoming is harder to do than, say, in new york, but we'll put that aside. i think it's absurd. she obviously has roots to the state of wyoming. her father is clearly popular there. it doesn't make sense to me. i'm pretty sure he would want to take back the sexist undertones obviously. >> a politician considers an run for the white house, and we're

not talking about hillary clint be. we'll talk peter king about a potential bid. also, a man who knows a thing or two about presidential campaigns. plus, nbc news capitol hill correspondent luke russert. first, a check on the forecast. >> let's put a positive spin on this heat wave. there's a good chance that today will be the hottest day till next summer. this is coast to coast today. we have 95 million people in a heat warning or advisory. those warnings include all the big cities i-95 and detroit and cincinnati. heat index today could approach 110. already in the low 90s from philadelphia to boston to washington, d.c. not much better there in the great lakes either. so how hot will it get in your area today? easily near 100. new york city, philly and washington, many other areas in the mid-90s. we are going to see strong storms today. watch out for chicago, detroit. some damaging winds. that will bring the changing winds and the cooler air from

canada eventually on saturday. the front and the strong storm will kick through the northeast too. the heat wave, by the way, just because it's not over in the east, the west is going to deal with the heat wave right through the whole weekend into next week. we leave you the shot of washington, d.c. the haze and the humidity will be gone by sunday afternoon. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. a-a-a.

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luke russert.

interesting. steve, on the croi-nut. >> you sure you want to eat that? >> i do. >> here with us now from clip, republican representative from new york, congressman peter king. from chicago, former senior adviser to president obama, nbc contributor david axelrod. and on set, nbc news capitol hill correspondent luke russert. and next to steve, contributing editor of "garden & gun" magazine, julia reid. great to have you on the table this morning from the "gard "garden & gun" desk. let's talk to peter king while you finish. >> it will be interesting to see how he does with garden and beguns. >> motivated by rand paul and ted cruz, am i wrong?

>> that's part of it. actually, this is a story that came to me. this is not a story i promoted. a number of people in the last several months, particularly in new york, also around the country, what they feel about is a lack of a real defense policy or debate among republican candidates for president, focusing primarily on rand paul and ted cruz. and then news max came to me, said they were going to do a story. i found out the story was posted online. i said i would consider the race. the main reason right now is the shift in debate. it bothers me when the leading republicans out there, someone like rand paul, seems more concerned about an american being killed in starbucks by a cia drone than he is about islamic terrorism. so i think we are the party of eisenhower and reagan, which believed in strong national defense. also, i believe the republicans have managed to cut themselves off from what used to be the old reagan coalition.

they're the building trade unions. the operating engineers. the construction workers. the cops, the firefighters. we needlessly antagonize them. on two issues, national defense, reaching out to what i believe are really hard core workers who should be part of the republican majority. i'm certainly willing to be out there and be a spokesman to see where this goes. >> luke russert. >> congressman king, luke russert here, your old italian friend. i want to ask you, so who's putting you up to this? are they saying, pete, we want you in iowa, we want you in new hampshire, and your sole job is to rough up cruz and rand paul and bring back that national security part of the three-legged platform of the gop? who's putting you up to it? >> luke, that's that whole buffalo board in you coming back, always seeing conspiracies. there is no conspiracy here. you saw the attorney general quoted in the article there. this is -- there's no conspiracy here, believe me.

this is just a number of people who are very concerned that there's virtually no one out there on the presidential level talking about national security. we have real national security issues. we have honest differences with the obama administration. and other areas we should honestly be agreeing. we can't just have a blind partisanship. in any event, we can't have an i isolationist trend which i think is being pursued by rand paul. not just have this thing, somehow america's out to form an empire, or the cia is out to kill all americans and we have to run the risk of the cia attacking us with drones. >> michael steele. >> david axelrod, we've started this conversation on '16 way too early but since we're into it let's just take it to the democrats and see where you may or may not have hillary, joe biden there, how do you see democrats based on what the representative just said, play off this national security team

post-obama? do you see some sort of change of the language, the tone, how the democrats will approach national security, versus -- without obama, versus what we see right now? >> is that for -- >> for axelrod, for david. >> sure. >> i want to applaud your instincts as a recovering politician for shifting the discussion from the republican party to the democratic party really quickly. i do think, look, there will be a healthy debate about national security on the democratic side. i think that hillary clinton probably will be the candidate. if she doesn't run, i think biden will run. they both i think share a view that there is a significant threat, that we do have to be vigilant about it, that we have to do it within the context of respecting our other traditions and the constitution. but we have to do it. but there will be others who have a different point of view. i'm struck listening to

congressman king that -- about two things. one is, there hasn't been a congressman elected president since 1880. but i think the republican party today is a family, but the families like the bourgeois, right, good luck to you, congressman. >> i really appreciate the kind words it i want to know, parent of my inspiration, i actually see joe scarborough's name being floated for president and i'll be damned if i let scarborough get there before i do. >> oh, boy. >> i understand your insecurities, peter, but they're not going to help you moving forward. >> so let's talk a little bit about foreign policy. by the way, peter king, a man who told "the washington post" one time they should not listen to me because i just walked out of a tent revival in the deep south barefooted. but we'll leave that old scar to fester. so you're talking about how rand

paul and other republicans want to take us, move us in, become more inward looking, more isolationist. peter, you agree, whether it was tripling the number of troops in afghanistan in 2009 or whether it was george w. bush in 2005 promising to stamp out tyranny in all four corners of the globe and to bring freedom, you know, from places from afghanistan, i mean, you name it, albania. you do believe, do you not, that the republican party's foreign policy has been too expansive over the past decade, we even, dare i say as a country, engaged in military adventurism that has not put the united states first. >> i have to disagree. obviously, there could have been refinement to the policy. not so much for what happens in afghanistan per se, but for instance, once you're out of afghanistan, we have to believe,

what's going to happen to pakistan, what's going to happen as far as stabilization? >> how long should we stay in afghanistan, peter? another 30 years? >> no, i would say -- listen, we've been in germany now, you asked a question. let me ask you, if we pull out of afghanistan, how are we different from september 10th, 2001? there's going to be a vacuum. there's going to be the taliban, al qaeda, also the pakistan taliban. we're talking about islamist terrorists who are poised to come at us. so we just can't walk back and say we're out of afghanistan. i think we can. i agree with somebody like the general, i think keep a force there, so we have the -- what we have to to protect american interests. just like iraq and israel. i would have a difference with the obama administration. we should have a status of forces agreement to preserve some sense of stability in iraq.

every troop in the central combat zone is in a dangerous area. we could have had a status of force agreement that i think would have stabilized iraq for the next 5, 10 years, and that would help us involving syria, involving israel. >> the question is, how are we different after we pull out of afghanistan than we were on september 10th. osama bin laden is dead. al qaeda has been decimated. >> that's not true, al qaeda is right across the border in pakistan. they can be back in afghanistan in a matter of days. >> here's the difference, peter, between now and september 10th. you certainly know this as well as anybody. al qaeda is not geographically centric anywhere now. it's in yemen. it's in africa. it is across the globe. we can't send all of our forces there. david axelrod, we can't, you know, we can't be the world's 911. >> that's the type of exaggerated debate that does not help us.

nobody wants to be a 911. >> we've been in afghanistan since 2001. there are people dying in afghanistan this week that were 5, 6, 7 years old when the war started, peter. it is not our job to be the world's policeman and to be there for the next 20 years. >> it is our job to protect the united states. if we arbitrarily withdraw from afghanistan, leave ourselves open for another attack -- >> we've been there for over 12 years. how long do you want to stay in afghanistan? >> i'm saying right now, there are certain parts of the country that are stabilized. i think with a minimum security force, working with afghanistan, we have to remain there, at least the next three or four years. >> another three or four years? >> let's play it by ear. three, four years. across the border, al qaeda is there. if we want to be able to go after them, we have to have bases in afghanistan to do it. if our troops company out. i agree with you about karzai, i have no love for karzai at all,

but our national interest -- >> not to be disrespectful, that doesn't change, though, three, four years. what happens, three, four years? they wait. they're still there. they're still got to be there ten years from now. they're still going to be there 20 year from now. >> we can build up the afghan eastern. there are special forces now in afghanistan. that are much better changed. i rely on people like the general and others who see a real possibility here. i don't want the united states attacked again. you mentioned all those other countries. without going into details, the united states does have an interest in those countries and we are involved in various action, diplomatic and otherwise. >> but it is true, we've been there, david, for 12 years. we can't be there for 12 more years. we have spent so much money and so many americans have died and while we have made progress in the margins, there will always be sanctuaries in pakistan.

>> david axelrod. >> joe, i'm going to say a counselor of worlds that i rarely -- few words i rarely say. >> please don't, don't say them. >> i agree with you. >> i just ruined your career. we have to remember why we went to afghanistan. we went to afghanistan to go after osama bin laden, to decimate the leadership of al qaeda. with we've substantially achieved that goal. bin laden is gone. the leadership of al qaeda in pakistan is gone. it's a dispersed organization now. it's a different kind of organization. you're absolutely right. when you think about the resources we've poured into this mission other a long period of time it is an unsustainable thing. in terms of keeping a force there, you have the issue of karzai and the afghanistan -- afghan government. and it's not at all clear that they're game for that.

i think representative king -- i share your view, i share your view, we do have threats in the world, but we also have challenges here at home and we can't simply deploy -- >> if we get attacked again -- go ahead, i'm sorry. >> no, no, go ahead. >> i want to bring in julia. hey, julia, so here's what i found to be so fascinating over the past five, six years. i've said this before. i know it will be shocking. but mika and i have gone out, we've given speeches on college campuses, book toured, probably talked to 400, 500 places over the past five, six years. whether we're in new orleans, or new haven, connecticut, whether we're in mississippi or michigan, university of michigan, wherever we are, i have spoken out against spending $2 billion a week in afghanistan that we need to bring our troops home after a decade and we need to spend that money in america.

i have yet, in conservative, moderate or liberal audiences, heard one person stand up and say, you know what, i think we need to stay in afghanistan. the american people are so disconnected from this war. >> i hate to tell you this, because i usually do agree with you. i sort of agree with king on this. what i'm more interested in -- >> yankee. >> that's one thing i've never been called. no, one thing, speaking of yankees, though, let's veer this conversation, since everybody's agreeing to disagree, back ton the possible election of congressman king as president of the united states. >> i like the sound of that. >> axelrod points out, congressman hadn't been elected since 1880. been almost as long since a new york republican was elected. the last one didn't do so well, mr. rockefeller. how do you think you'd do down there in garden and gun country? if you're comparing joe to a tent revivalist, that's sort of

going to not play so well with the electorate down there. >> listen, we in new york, we have a sense of humor. that goes back -- you should have heard what they said about new york when they came in 1994, to congress. as far as james garfield and 1880, the fact is, i think cable tv, the internet, all that, they change that. i would say, being on shows like "morning joe," quite frankly, you know, and also i think that you mentioned new york, teddy roosevelt, long island, maybe he'd like to be the next teddy roosevelt. i have to say, i strongly disagree with you. we don't have the luxury of retreating from the world. i'm saying it's easy to tell people, i agree people are disengaged in the war. president obama did increase the troop strength but never really laid out the reasons, never really told how important it was. at the time he was increasing the troop numbers, he talked

about how important it was to get out. you can't send a mixed message. either we're in or we're out. we have a good part of the country stabilized. there's real activity across the border. we leave ourselves open for another 9/11. >> we need to be engaged in the world certainly. i think even rand paul understands that. we just have to be a bit more selective. we can only do so much. we can only ask people so much of our troops. the last congressman to be president was garfield. >> fun fact. >> and they shot him. >> oh. >> yeah, so a lot of really good track record for congressman running for president. >> i can't believe the different directions this conversation has darted to in the course of six minutes and then i realized what show we're on and it makes sense. >> the only good thing is -- >> thank you very much, congressman, i'll see you next week. >> someone put you up to this, i know it, i'm going to figure out

who's bankrolling you. >> thank you. coming up, an author here with his provocative new book challenging the long-held assumption of the man known as jesus of nazareth. that's next when "morning joe" comes back. mine was earned in djibouti, africa. 2004. vietnam in 1972. [ all ] fort benning, georgia in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve military members, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy, get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. every day we're working to and to keep our commitments.

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38 past the hour. here with us now, writer and religious scholar. out now with the new book, "zealot," the life and times of jesus of nazareth. start with the title , can you give us some context? >> yeah, zealotry was a widely held principal in first century palestine, the age of jesus, that was predicated on the notion of god as the sole sovereign. that the land of israel needed to be cleansed of all of its, you know, pagan and heathen influences and rededicated to the chosen people. zealotry ultimately resulted in the jewish war about 30 years advertiser jesus died. this great revolt that kicked out the roman empire from the holy land. and resulted three years later

in rome coming back and leveling the city and destroying jerusalem. the argument of the book is that same sentiment is deeply a part of who jesus was and the teachings that he preached. >> tell us about jesus the man and the different portraits of him that you found in your research for the book. >> i think we have this tendency to think jesus as some sort of, you know, invettorate pa atate passivist, which is of course completely at odds of the picture that emerges from historical study of him. this is a man who lived in probably the most tumultuous era in the holy land. which is frankly saying a lot. and who took on the greatest empire the world had ever known. and was ultimately executed as a state criminal. i mean, he was a deeply political figure. >> so he was a terrorist? >> no, i mean, a terrorist is somebody who takes up arms against citizens. there were certainly a lot of

jewish terrorists in first century palestine. but he himself wasn't one of those. but he was a nationalist revolutionary. whose ultimate goal was to push rome out of the holy land, to free the jews from the yoke of roman occupation and to usher in the reign of god on earth. >> i was going to say, actually the opposite of the terrorist. he was, if you look at his words, his teachings, he was as passive -- he talked about turning the other cheek, forgiving 70 times 7. if the army asks you to carry something, you know, for a mile, carry it i don't know ten miles or whatever. and so while the message was a message of spiritual liberation from the teachings of the day, he himself stayed disconnected -- >> well, not exactly -- >> -- from the politics of the day. >> not exactly.

first of all, this is the man who also said i have not come to bring peace on earth but the sword it the same man who said if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy would be. this is a man who simply saying the words i am a messiah was doing a treasonable offense. the job of the messiah is to recreate the kingdom of david. that means iss s ushering out t kingdom of caesar. remember, crucifixion is a punishment rome reserved solely for crimes against the state line insurrection, rebellion. >> the romans themselves, as you know, were ambivalent at best, if you read about what happened the final week of jesus' life were ambivalent at best -- >> that's not what the deal is -- >> so pontius pilate when he said i wash my hands of this, what was that, a fable? >> never happened.

>> so that was a fable? >> it's an absolute fable. what you have to understand is the very first words ever written about jesus in the gospels were written after the jewish revolt, after the destruction of jerusalem, after this very movement that jesus embodied led to, you know, this insurrection against the roman empire. and those words were written in greek, not in hebrew or aremic, the language of the jus. they were written for a roman audience at a time in which judaism had become a pariah. you have to do two things to jesus. one, make him a little bit less jewish and a little bit less revolutionary. two, you have to remove all blame for his death from rome. what we know about pontius pilate, what we are certain about from the histories, is that this was a brutal, blood thirsty man who, on a regular basis, sent his troops out on to

the streets of jerusalem to slaughter the jews when they disagreed with the slightest of his decisions. the notion that this is a man -- let me just quickly -- >> so you're saying suggesting -- i hear what you're saying about pontius pilate. so you're suggesting that basically the new testament is fiction. >> no, what i'm saying is the new testament is myth, and myth isn't fiction. you have to understand what we differentiate between facts and truth is a differentiation that the ancient mind would have no conception of. for them, what was important wasn't the actual facts of an event. they wouldn't even know what you were talking about. for then, the importance was truth. what they wanted to do was create a narrative of jesus that revealed the truths that they wanted to reveal about him. and sob o one of those truths w that it was not rome's fault for his death but it was the jew's fault. >> let's expand this out because we're coming to the end of this segment and i want to get to the

heart of your narrative. is it that jesus was more of a political figure than a spiritual figure -- >> there's no difference in first century palestine between the two. >> are we to question, like, for instance, jesus talking about turning the other cheek and forgiving 70 times 7, are those fables as well? >> if you want to know who jesus was, you have to place him in the context of the world in which he lived. jesus was a jew. he was a follower of the tora. and the notion of turning the other cheek and forgiving your brother is biblically based. it's in the hebrew scriptures. but it applies solely to jews. in other words, it's not about the roman occupiers. this is a man who went to his death as a state criminal because he was seen as a political challenge to the occupation of jerusalem. and, again, i just want to emphasize one more time -- >> so is jesus a political figure?

>> there is no difference. by simply being -- >> there is no difference between religion and politics? there are over 1 billion people of course who follow jesus who disagree with you. >> i think even those people who believe that jesus is god incarnate, god is flesh, which is my wife who is a christian, my mother who is a christian, also believed he is also a man. if that's true, he's a man, he lived in this specific time. then that time is important because it influenceded who he was. the words he said, his teaching, need to be placed according to the social ills that he confronted. the powers that he confronted. you can't just sort of pretend that he was in some sort of vacuum and that his words didn't have any kind of historical context. >> the book is zealot. >> nobody here is pretending that. it sounds like a fascinating argument. and i, too, am a believer. and don't think it's myth. >> the book is zealot. the life and times of jesus of nazareth.

you can reach an excerpt on our site, mojo.msnbc.com. thank you so much for being on the show. we'll be right back.

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it was interesting to hear peter king. the kind of coalition he's talking about, you know, whether he's talking about cops and firefighterses or whatever, i mean, that reagan coalition, reagan was the last guy, well, george h.w. and george w. to some extent swept the south. but we've really lost that. i think he's got a point. i know you don't agree with him on foreign policy. i think his argument even on that resonates in the south more than almost anywhere else. so it which be kind of interesting -- i did not know his wife was from georgia. if s if he runs for president, she's going to be glued to the man's side. >> he also would do well to read "garden & gun" to prep. he also might want to get some old george jones tapes and put them in his pickup truck. you did write about george jones. >> i did. managed to link his death --

>> i got to get that. >> mika and i share a former head mistress. no, it's such a leap that i don't even think we have time. if you're talking about sort of the way this show has darted around, just briefly, i'll just say that jean harris enabled me to have a career because my first by-line was after she -- so i'm sorry for my career -- but it was a good move for me. if i hadn't had journalistic career, i wouldn't have met george jones. >> ask joe about his shoes. >> are you -- undisclosed location? >> i wear ties under great protest. >> you hang out in tent reviva revivals, do you? >> he probably has shorts on. we'll be right back, julia, thank you. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat more dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting

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hey, mika, quite a day here on "morning joe," what have you learned? >> detroit needs help. we're headed there actually, to do our show live there, to take a look at the problems firsthand. also to look at the city's incredible history, joe. >> all right, thanks so much, mika. we're at the top of the hour. thank you so much for being with us. we really appreciate it. have a great weekend. stick around right now because chuck todd is next with "the daily rundown." the motor city stalled. detroit becomes the largest municipal bankruptcy filing in u.s. history. a one-time iconic city can no longer pay its debts. estimated at $18 billion. also this morning, a house call. the next few months will decide what the 2014 battle will be about. we'll talk to the point people on both sides