if they feel there's no context for it. it's going to be important for all of us to do some soul searching. i don't want us to lose sight that thing are getting better. we're becoming a more perfect union. not a perfect union. but a more perfect union. ♪ makes you want to holler, throw up both my hands ♪ ♪ it make me want to holler throw up both my hands ♪ >> it was unexpected. he took all of us by surprise but nearly a week after a verdict that royaled the nation and highlighted racial disparities in the criminal justice system, the president this afternoon offered his first response to the acquittal of george zimmerman. with precious little warning, the president arrived in the white house briefing room delivering a statement that will vet quickly became deeply personal. >> when trayvon martin was first shot, i said that this could have been my son. another way of saying that is,

trayvon martin could have been me 35 years ago. >> the president ticked through a litany of average encounters for an african-american male being followed shopping in a store, hearing door locks click as you walk by, a woman holding her purse close in an elevator, all of which the president said were personal experiences for him before he became a senator. putting this case in such personal terms, the president sought to give context to the deep pain that african-americans across the nation felt at george zimmerman's acquittal. while acknowledging the problem of violence within the african-american community. >> folks understand the challenges that exist for african-american boys. but they get frustrated i think if they feel that there's no context for it. and that context is being denied. >> it was that call for context

that answered the cries of so many people of color, troubled by the case and its verdict. and if anyone thought the president was backing down from the toughest issues of race and justice in this case, they were roundly denied today with a challenge to examine stand your ground laws and their implications. >> i just ask people to consider if trayvon martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk? and do we actually think that he would have been justified in shooting mr. zimmerman who had followed him in a car because he felt threatened? >> examining those laws was just one of five steps the president offered today in possible response to the case that has so compelled this nation. let's get right to nbc's kristen welker with us from the white house. kristin, we were completely taken by surprise as the president walked into the

briefing room. i want to play just a bit of the reaction when the president appeared at the regularly scheduled briefing today. >> whoa. whoa. that's so disappointing, man. >> what are you doing here? >> jay, is this the kind of respect that you get? >> kristin, a light-hearted moment. you work around the white house. was it a surprise for you too? >> it was a surprise, martin. and that's what made this moment so the extraordinary in part. you notice that the front row was empty. we just weren't prepared for him to come out, quite frankly and just to give a little bit of context to that, usually the white house press corps gets somewhat of a heads-up, even if it is off the record. in this instance, we literally had a few minutes of warning that the president was actually going to come out into the briefing room. and the other thing that was remarkable, martin, is that he spoke for 18 minutes about this

topic. this was an extemporaneous speech. normally when he comes out to the briefing room, he makes brief remarks, seven to ten minutes, sometimes taking questions, sometimes not. but you could really tell, given the length of time that he devoted to this, that he wanted to flesh out how complicated this was and also how personal. you pointed out that this speech was a deeply personal one. in fact, arguably the most personal speech that we have heard him give on race since he delivered that speech back in 2008 when he was a candidate. one white house official tells me part of the reason why they wanted this to be a surprise and why the president wanted this to be a surprise is because they didn't want reporters sitting around thinking about what the president was going to talk about and trying to speculate and draw their own conclusions. they wanted the speech to stand alone and to be remarkable and it was because it was a surprise to so many of us, martin? >> kristen welker at the white house. thank you so much. i'm joined now here in new york by my colleague karen finny,

host of "disrupt," and in philadelphia, professor james peterson, can director of africana studies at lehigh university and an msnbc contributor. karen, this was a surprise. it was impromptu. do you think the president, having seen even the grieving parents of thust shot teenager going on and trying to articulate their grief and trying to help people understand what had happened, do you think the president just felt compelled he had to say something? >> the sense i get was this was all him. i get the sense there may have been a conversation whereby he told the staff he was doing this, which i give him credit for. i also think to those who would say this president hasn't led, that's leadership what we just saw. >> sure. >> understanding in the moment that will historical significance of that moment and knowing that you have to say something. >> and chuck todd said earlier today, our political editor, that this was not good politics. if the president was only

bothered about politics, he won't have done that. >> that's exactly right. as chuck pointed out, you could easily say it would be bad for him and we still have a midterm election and a very polarized country. we've already seen the hate coming out and they're blaming the president. we know this is going to be used against him. in spite of that, the president clearly decided, this is too important for me to not step up and say what i need to say. >> absolutely. professor peterson, when the president said, and i'm quoting him, if trayvon martin were armed, would he have been justified in shooting mr. zimmerman? was that not the perfect encapsulation of everything that's arisen from this tragedy, racial profiling, stand your ground laws, and the racial bias of american jurisprudence? >> absolutely. and remember, understand the rhetorical effect of that sort of juxtaposition and that crisscrossing of the racial subject positions in this particular case because you know, a lot of us have been

doing that in the media already. when the president of the united states does that, i think it invites more of the american folk, more people who may not be understanding why black folk are in so much pain this week. this has been a painful week for those of us who either experienced or empathized with the kind of experiences of racial profiling in this nation. a painful week. so the president gave us a little bit of relief here when this powerful moment in this historical speech, that particular excerpt i hope helps those folks who don't understand why this is such a painful situation, why this week is such a trying week for this nation, not just from the perspective of the black folk but period. is the president gave us a window into understanding by switching the roles around so people could understand, listen, if those roles were switched as he says in this particular example, trayvon martin we have been arrested immediately. that's just the criminal justice system we have. the president of the united states acknowledged racial bias, institutional bias in our

criminal justice system. that is a historic moment. >> it absolutely is. karen, the president was also careful and sensitive and aware about the fact of violence within the african-american community itself. take a listen to what he said. >> this isn't to say that the african-american community is naive about the fact that african-american young men are disproportionately involved in the criminal justice system. that will they're disproportionally both victims and perpetrators of violence. it's not to the make excuses for that fact although black folks do interpret the reasons for that in a historical context. >> now, karen, on that historical context, that was very important because all this week, i've heard conservative commentator who's suddenly discovered black crime in chicago and relentlessly throwing it out there as though

somehow that's a justification for what happened last week. >> absolutely. because those are the same people who are fundamentally disconnected from the reality of this country, from the reality that we are becoming a majority -- we already are a majority minority country to the way that people very different interest them live their lives every single day, that this is part of the american experience, and as i said to you just before we came on the air, part of why this was so important from the president, that was an american story. everybody needs to embrace that this is part of the american story. and he did it without -- and he wasn't asking for pity, he was just saying i just put this out there so you can understand. and one of the things i think in particular for this president as a by racial person myself, he of all people and he wrote about this beautiful in his book, understands that that pain can go both ways. that's what's so powerful about this. as james just said, he was trying to get people a window into this very american experience that they just don't see every day. >> and yet, professor,

notwithstanding what karen's just said and the subtlety and sensitivity of the president's remarks, he's already being lambasted by conservatives. he's being called a race baiter in chief. the great divider. the one who wishes to tear the country apart. breitbart's friends of hamas, ben shah. irrow says obama helped ignite this ginned up racial melee by saying his son would look like trayvon. now he says he could have been trayvon. why are people saying that kind of thing, professor. >> just the pot calling the kettle black, martin. those are the guys who actually are ginning up racial conflict and racial tension. those are the guys responsible for all the rhetoric that's anti-women and the war on women we've been talking about on this show for months now. so we have to kind of -- unfortunately, though, martin there are folk on the left saying this is too little too late. he's coming up short. it's interesting to look at this presidency historically and how people on the far right and people on the far left are

always throwing daggers and super critical of him. today we have to pause and understand the historic nature of this particular moment. i just want to go back to this black on black crime thing because i'm fed up and sick of people bringing this up. first of all, there really is no such thing as black on black crime. the preponderance of crime is committed int trat racially. most crime is committed within certainly racial communities. second, to assert that this network, this particular show, you and i have not talked about black on black, what they referred to as black on black crime or the june challenges in philadelphia, chicago, all over this nation, for years is absolutely absurd. they may have just woken up to this, but we have been adjusting to this for a long time. third, this is not the issue with the trayvon martin case. it's apples and oranges. there are plenty of young black men in jail for murdering, assaulting other young black men. the problem with trayvon martin, zimmerman wasn't arrested for 44

days. we need to set aside the absurdity, understand this particular moment and pay heed to the president's words. i think they're very, very powerful and important. >> he spoke so personally. that is how change happens in this country. and it makes me sad for those people who would criticize him, it the same people who don't acknowledge the changes this country has gone for. the president gave a personal experience. if they were smart, they would shut up and listen and try to learn singh from that. >> professor james peterson and karen finney, thank he so much. coming up a member of congress joins to us discuss the best way to achieve a more perfect union.

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the president's sudden appearance in the white house briefing room just a short time

ago continues to reverberate around the nation. and though he did suggest some reconsideration of the law and police training, this was a very personal statement delivered from the heart of his own experience. >> there are very few african-american men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. that includes me. there are very few african-american who haven't had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. that happens to me at least before i was a senator. >> and joining us now is congresswoman eleanor holmes norton, a delegate who represents washington, d.c. good afternoon, ma'am. >> good afternoon, martin. >> eugene robinson in today's "washington post" said that he did not think the president was the best person to lead a discussion following the tragedy of trayvon martin's death, and

yet, with almost everyone at every level of politics and culture offering an opinion, was this moment not crying out for a contribution from the president himself? >> and i think you said the operative word, martin, contribution. maybe he shouldn't lead it. maybe we in congress should lead it. we're going to try to do that having a hear of our newly established commission on black men and boys first hearing next wednesday, 3:00 to 5:00 in rayburn. isn't that timely? just like the president's comments were timely, and i think necessary, there's a lot of energy that needs to be channeled. there's a lot of explanation that needs to be done. now, the attorney general has done some of that. but the president touched every important base from the context, how important that was for people who don't understand why black people would be in the streets to remedies where he spoke of stand your ground laws. that's one way to channel all

that will energy. let's roll back those stand your ground laws beginning with florida. racial profiling, we're going to have a bill coming up, be transportation bill, i have a section that didn't get included in the last one. but the one before that, it was a racial profiling section that had exactly the remedies that the president spoke of. and you could get grants in half the states applied for those grants. >> you yourself are a mother. when you heard the president describe his personal experience of being on an escalator and noticing that women are holding their purses closer to themselves or walking down a street and hearing people's car locks automatically being switched on, did you -- did that resonate with you because you yourself have had those conversations with your own children? >> it has. and i have a grown son who's married and has a kid.

and has not gone through what trayvon martin and his parents have gone through. but i can tell you this, are that for a black mother and a an black father, there is always this dilemma. first you want to teach them to be strong and aggressive. act like a man. do what men do. hold back on nothing. but then you want to warn them that perhaps if you act like a white man, you won't be here to tell the story. now, how do you get both of those messages across in today's world? so it was very important for the president. >> but congresswoman, that sounds like such a psychologically confusing thing to be on the one hand saying have a stiff spine, be proud. be strong. but on the other hand, you're saying, but if you be like that, it could cost you your life? >> in other words, you're saying be careful.

use judgment. and i'm afraid those twin contradictory messages are what will african-american parents, what our community has to send to our young, is are our youth today. so what better person to kind of put it all out there? so that in a real sense, he was speaking to the white community the black community at the same time. and i think both of them took from those remarks what they needed to hear. >> are you satisfied with what the president said in relation to stand your ground laws? is it your view that these laws actually don't do what laws are intended to do, which is prevent and reduce violence but they escalate violence? >> and they are a menace to every black man on the street. because these black men are seen as potential criminals. and your stand your ground law is an invitation to someone who

makes a mistake to shoot first and ask no questions later. and receive no punishment later. >> congresswoman eleanor holmes norton, thank you so much for joining us. on what has been a historic day. thank you. coming up, flip the script. what if trayvon martin were white and george zimmerman were black? we'll discuss the president's perspective on that when we come back. let's get the ball rolling. in cities like charlotte, atlanta, and chicago, we're revving people up to take a lap around the legendary nascar race track with drivers from the coca-cola racing family. coca-coca family track walks give thousands of race fans the chance to get out, get moving, and have fun... all along the way. it's part of our goal to inspire more than three million people to rediscover the joy of being active this summer. see the difference all of us can make... together.

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to help people achieve. i'm in my work van, having lunch, next minute i'm in the back of an ambulance having a heart attack. the emts gave me bayer aspirin. it helped save my life. i was in shape, fit. i did not see it coming. my doctor recommends i take bayer aspirin to help prevent another heart attack. [ male announcer ] aspirin is not appropriate for everyone so be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. i've lived through a massive heart attack. i don't take life for granted. see your doctor and get checked out. ♪ from the analysis of charles barkley to george zimmerman's handgun, here are today's top lines, retreat. >> whenever i look at george, i'm always going to see and he's always going to have to live with just as anyone hop had to take someone's life that they have to carry that burden around for the rest of their life now. >> so say we all, foreperson.

>> does either side want to -- >> i don't want to block my blessings by having any hatred in my heart for him. i would pray for him. >> we are deeply sorry for this tragedy and we pray for trayvon martin. >> you can tell me you're sorry for my loss and then stabbing me in the back at the same time. >> there was some racial profiling, no question about it. but something happened that changed the dynamic of that night. >> it would seem to be that trayvon martin overreacted to what he perceived to be something going on and he overreacted in a vi leapt way. >> i feel sorry that young kid got killed but just judging by the evidence, i don't think that guy should have went to jail for the rest of his life. >> i decided that today until stand your ground law is abolished in florida, il never perform there again. >> i don't know how much demand stevie's in right now? >> with all due respect.

>> it's been open season on black young men across the country. >> by other black young men. >> what's lacking in this conversation is empathy and appreciation for the humanity of trayvon martin. >> called martin a dope smoking gangsta' wannabe. >> he's a free man in the eyes of the court but he's going to be looking around his shoulder for the rest of his life. >> can you imagine feeling like you're being followed. everyone just assuming you're a criminal. if i were him, i'd wear something to hide my face. >> if he could, he would carry a gun again. >> yes, even more reason now. >> you're saying he needs to protect himself. >> yes. >> and the way to do it is by carrying a weapon. >> that's one way. >> joining us is msnbc contributor goldie taylor and dana milbank a political columnist with the "washington post." goldie, the president has made a rather extraordinary unannounced appearance today at the white house to talk about the george zimmerman acquittal. and here's part of what the president said. take a listen, goldie.

>> so folks understand the challenges that exist for african-american boys, but they get frustrated i think if they feel there's no context for it. and that context is being denied. and that all contributes i think to a sense that if a white male teen was involved in the same kind of scenario that from top to bottom, both the outcome and the aftermath might have been different. >> goldie, when the president says that the outcome might have been different, what does he mean? >> i think he explicitly means if the roles had been reversed. if george zimmerman had been african-american, if trayvon martin had been white or hispanic or white hispanic.

then maybe just maybe the police officers would have investigated more fully that night. maybe just maybe there there would have been an arrest more immediately. maybe there would not have needed to be marchers in the street to sort of force due process to take place. and so i think that's what the president means. but i think he went even further than that. you know, we've been talking about for the last 1 or 19 month about how the we have to parent our sons differently. and what i've begun to say is, unless it is validated, unless people really understand that we do, that we must parent our sons differently, then we'll always, always have to because they'll always face these kinds of environments. >> dana, again, the president said both the outcome and the aftermath may have been different as goldie pointed out if trayvon had been white. but compare that statement to what will defense counsel mark o'mara had to say about what would have happened if his client, george zimmerman, had

been black. take a listen to this dana. >> i think that the things would have been different in george zimmerman was black for this reason. he never would have been charged with a crime. >> so dana, is the criminal justice system is biassed in favor of african-americans, is that right? >> goodness gracious, you would think he would have enough decency to just keep his mouth shut at had point. the president by contrast had one of his best moments i think this afternoon when he surprised everybody speaking without notes and basically as something of a racial healer saying jury's spoken. putting some doubt on whether the federal government will get involved in any way. but also just speaking in such a personal powerful way i think americans probably never pause to think that their future president was once followed around a department store and heard door locks clicking because he was there and he was a black man. so i think he was able to bring this home to people of all races

in a way that only he could doll today. and that was -- it was a statement perhaps a bit overdue but a very powerfully made. >> i an number of consecutives in the meed are condemning can the president saying he's race-baiting and that he ginned up this story. >> i am shocked that conservatives would be -- >> i thought you would be. >> this president puts on his shoes in the morning and he's condemned. >> of course he is. he wakes up, condemn him. >> look, i mean, i don't know what more could be asked of him. he didn't say the jury verdict was an outrage. he said eric holder is lookinging into what more can be done, but these things are handled at the state level. and then he proposed the most benign solutions to say let's take a look at race. he wasn't ramming any agenda down anybody's throat. he was talking about the issues we're all talking about from a unique perspective. he's botched questions of race before. we all remember the beer summit but he seems to have learned from that and was an eloquent

spokesman today. >> goldie, what's your reaction to the very fine line that the president has to walk on this issue? >> well, i think it's clear that people hear what they want it hear to fit their personal narratives. the same is true about this case. it's like a ror shack test. you look at the ink blow the and you see what you want to see. many of us have been making statements rather strongly across social networks and we've been attacked. not because we've necessarily said the wrong thing but because supreme failed to want to see it through a cultural lens to see the cultural context. i think the president could say that the sky was blue and people would sayre it was green and that he was a socialist for calling it blue. at the end of the day, it is about hear the narrative that you select rather than hearing the one that brings us together in a place of healing and that's what the president was out to do today. unfortunately, that's going to continue to fall on deaf ears for some people on the left and on the right. >> well, goldie taylor and dana

milbank, we're glad both of you can talk so intelligently about this issue. thank you so much. coming up, an attorney for the family of trayvon martin joins us to discuss the reaction of trayvon's parents to what the president has just said. stay with us. so... [ gasps ] these are sandra's "homemade" yummy, scrumptious bars. hmm? i just wanted you to eat more fiber. chewy, oatie, gooeyness... and fraudulence. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. [ male announcer ] fiber one. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. i tthan probablycare moreanyone else.and we've had this farm for 30 years. we raise black and red angus cattle. we also produce natural gas. that's how we make our living and that's how we can pass the land and water back to future generations. people should make up their own mind what's best for them. all i can say is it has worked well for us.

beyond protests or vigils, the question is, are there some concrete things that we might be able to do. i know that eric hold ser reviewing what happened. down there, but i think it's important for people to have some clear expectations here. traditionally, these are issues of state and local government. the criminal code. and law enforcement is traditionally done at the state and local levels, not at the federal levels. >> that that was the president

suggesting a pathway forward in the aftermath of the trial of george zimmerman. joining us is the attorney for the trayvon martin family, daryl parks. thank you so much for joining us. you've just told me you were actually supposed to be in canada speaking so we're delighted you're here. i have to ask you, what was your reaction to the president's statement? >> humbling. martin, i think for most african-americans who live life in america, our experience is a little different from other people. so for the president in his way to address some of the things that people are feeling post verdict are so important. i think that for the rest of the country, certainly what our legal system did was the legal system. his comments were so appropriate how he. you the it in context. so no one, he didn't make any comment about the jury, the lawyers and the case. but after that, the people in this country feel a sense of emptiness. and it was so appropriate for one, him to respond to the

people and to give them some hope because people need hope now and direction. that's what presidents do. >> it's also been the case, has it not, sir, that we have seen the two people most devastated by this incident, the parents of trayvon martin, who have somehow in their grief found the ability to talk about it, to engage in a conversation, to appear in interviews. do you think the president having seen the way they've conducted themselves almost felt compelled that he had to say something? >> i think he did. i think he probably didn't want to at first but i think that the country has spoken. and it's amazing how after that verdict last saturday night, i was there, who would ever think that sometime after 10:00 that all the things that happened within 48 hours would have happened that people feeling the way they were feeling and certainly this case was very public and so the world had a chance to see all of the evidence, to see the verdict

rendered. that didn't stop them how they felt about what happened. so it is heartfelt that our president is feeling what we're feeling and has responded to that in the appropriate way. >> now, the parents of trayvon martin have just issued a statement in reaction to the president. and they say this, "trayvon's life was cut short, but we hope that his legacy will make our communities a better place for generations to come. we will applaud the president's call to action, to bring communities together, to encourage an open and difficult dialogue." i have to say, sir, that from where i sit, i have three children. if someone killed one of my children, i do in the think i would have it in me to be as gracious and as concerned about our community than i would be about the anger that would be dominating me. and yet, here are your clients who speak with such grace. >> well, they have really leaned

on god, martin, in this situation and god has kept them. as you read the bible, it says he will coop you if you want to be kept. so they continue to pray that. and you know, as i watched them, they've been in new york the last couple days and had some very hard questioning by many people in your profession about the situation. and they've been able to understand that this is bigger than them and i think once a person gets to the point where they can look beyond themself and look to god and look to how can it help other people, then you see the gravity of the situation and how it moves forward to help other people. >> they're obviously very godly people. so what now? because we know in this particular trial, the use of the stand your ground law was not expedited for the purposes of these proceedings. and yet, the president was very clear that he wants us to consider again whether these laws actually do anything for peace and tranquility in this country or whether they basically encourage violence.

>> and the heart of that. >> is that your view? >> it's the self defense laws. we use the stand your ground context but it's the self-defense views we have to have a bigger dialogue about that. we've seen the governor of florida still believes that the stand your ground should apply. >> he does. >> we have to ask the governor to rethink that. we have to do things that make all people safe. we've talked with the governor in the last couple of days. >> you personally have? >> yes. >> how has he reacted? >> he understands we have to have some type of dialogue how we make our children feel safe. that may uninclude many different things. that's a dialogue we have to have. >> the preds also spoke about the need for law enforcement and training and he referenced his own experience in illinois where he introduced certain training strategies to help people understand their own inward feelings about race and so on. is that something that you would support and encourage across the nation? >> you have to.

a big part is we have to get to know each other. so often across the country, you see some departments realize they have to reach into the community and get to know their communities in order to better police them. when you have situations where people don't know each other, when detective serino asked him did you identify yourself to trayvon martin and he said he didn't, that's important. maybe if he had, trayvon may have respondeded to him in a different way. >> daryl parks attorney for trayvon martin's family. thank you so much. thank you. coming up, the historical context for today's historical moment at the white house.

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not for this nation the stiff upper lip or pretense and emotional suppression. nor the threat of violence that erupt in some countries when anyone chooses to speak their mind. no, america not only values freedom of expression, it's actually protected constitutionally. and that's why this week will not simply be marked by court proceedings that followed the tragic and unnecessary loss of trayvon martin's life. it will forever be marked by the grace and dignity of two of grieving parents who are still struggling to understand how their hand some young son was shot to death in florida. and it will also be marked by a president who saw their grief and decided that he too had something to say on the subject. and by talking, let's pray that all of us will understand more clearly and feel more deeply the lives and experiences of our

fellow citizens of this great nation. coming up, the lessons of our children the president strikes a note of optimism. >> but you know when i talk to malia and sasha -- and i listen to their friends and i see them interact, they're better than we are. they're better than we were on these issues. and that's true in every community that i've visited all is kroo the country. hey linda! what are you guys doing? having some fiber! with new phillips' fiber good gummies. they're fruity delicious! just two gummies have 4 grams of fiber! to help support regularity! i want some... [ woman ] hop on over! [ marge ] fiber the fun way, from phillips'. [ woman ] hop on over! hey, buddy? oh, hey, flo. you want to see something cool? snapshot, from progressive. my insurance company told me not to talk to people like you. you always do what they tell you? no...

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the president concluded his remarks today with something of a history lesson. a measurement of where this country has been, where it is today, and where we must go forward on the topic of race. >> kids, these days i think have more sense than we did back then and certainly more than our parents did or our grandparents

did and that along this long difficult journey, we're becoming a more perfect union. not a perfect union. >> joining us now is my colleague toure, co-host of the "cycle" and jonathan alter a columnist for bloomberg view and the author of the 2012 campaign history "the center holds obama and his enemies." welcome to you both. jonathan, have you followed the president at every moment pre-2008 through the campaign. you heard him speak about race in the past. how does what he said today compare to what he has said in the past? >> well, it is actually of a peace with what he has said in some speeches but he hasn't done so at such a dramatic moment since the jeremiah wright speech during the campaign, and that was partly an exercise in damage control.

of this one was much more of i thought a very compelling balanced sophisticated and even inspiring description of our racial status and our challenges ahead as a society. and in that an sense, i actually think the best comparison would be to the speech that lyndon johnson gave in 1965 where he said and we, too, shall overcome. this was an effort to the advance what has always been, you know, the great american gash in our history and to advance the conversation on race and take it one hopes to a new place. >> and yet, it's a difficult conversation, isn't it, toure? >>, of course, it's a difficult conversation for a lot of reasons. >> but it's peculiarly difficult for this president. >> absolutely, partly because of the hyper polarization we're in but partly because of the way that race functions nowadays. a lot of people seem to think

race functions as sort of hammer and things are either black or white in lower case "b" or "w." but race very often functions in slippery ways. people can be anti-racist and still benefit from white skin privilege. he touched on that when he talked about working with law enforcement about training to reduce the kind of mistrust in the system that will currently exists. what's he talking about? >> institutional race whyism. >> impolice bias. we talk about shooter bias. people are more likely to see a gun in the hand of an unarmed black person than the hand of an unarmed white person, empathy gap. we feel more pain for those who look like us than others. racial profiling. all these sort of slippery ways that racism funss and perpetuates white supremacy. you're talking at a far more gran knew lar level of the game than we get into. >> especially as it applies to stand your ground. he walked people through a thought experiment.

imagine if it had been trayvon martin who was armed and was standing his ground, quote unquote, and had killed george zimmerman. would we be looking at this in the same way. and the answer obviously is no. >> now, having followed the president, john, i want you to listen to what he said about the issue of race as part of our national conversation. take a listen to this. >> you know there have been talk about should we convene a conversation on race. i haven't seen that be particularly productive when politicians try to organize conversations. they end up being stilted and politicized and folks are locked into the positions they already have. >> that was an incredibly honest dismissal of the political process, john. and an acceptance that we might do better if our ministers and our churches and our rabbis speak about race than if politicians do. >> he was remembering that bill clinton during the 1990s had a

quote national conversation on race and it really didn't accomplish very much. and so i thought it was kind of a sophisticated understanding of how we have these kind of kabuki dances in our public life that don't amount to much and what really matters are the private conversations and so can this 17-minute statement that he made, can this kick off a whole new series of private conversations? and i think it will. that's what presidential leadership is about. >> it's hard to kick off those conversations when we live in two separate worlds and he's trying to push through that when he's saying things like look into yourself, how much bias you have in yourself. i think also about the sort of classic die lek of black leaders of malcolm x versus dr. king. we needed bowing of them. malcolm served an incredible wamu in his time but those tactics would not be perhaps as effective today.

what he's talking about is the tactics of king, the tactics it of love, of christian ministry to push this whole conversation forward. >> he didn't let the black community off the hook. this was a very important part of this speech. >> it was incredible. >> so it should kick off conversations not necessarily you know across racial lines in some sort of community forum, but in households, in black households and white house holds and most people are not stuck in this highly polarized washington august context. they are trying to solve problems in their own communities, often some racial problems and to begin to talk more honorable about it as the president was doing is a real step forward. >> i think the black community has been having those conversations. you acknowledged that that we understand that black on black violence is a huge problem in the community and sometimes the right is sort of saying, well, why are you so focused on zimmerman and martin when you have a problem in your own house.

we know that. we are marching about that speaking to each other. we are trying to deal with that as best we can. this sort of situation hurts us because it reminds of emmett till and sean bell and these other sort of people. we have multiple problems. he's acknowledging that. we know that. we don't forget that. >> do you think john, that this speech in time will prove to be an important moment briefly, if you can? >> i do. i do. i think that it is one of -- it's an example of why he was elected in 2008 and re-elected in 2012 and the nice thing about it is, because he doesn't have to run for re-election, he can have more of these conversations. there's been a gap between his public and private persona in terms of what he says about race. he's starting to close that gap. >> we don't have enough time to continue. thank you. we'll be right back in a moment. [ male announcer ] this is george.

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you that you can follow this show on twitter at bashir live and indeed on our twitter feed today, you'll find an item introducing you to some members of our staff, my great friends and colleagues and inviting to you follow their twitter accounts. follow friday. "hardball" is next. >> the president, the zimmerman trial and race. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm michael smerconish in for chris matthews. what we saw at the white house today was something many people have been waiting for, president obama speaking out clearly forcefully and emotionally about the trayvon martin case. it was the president addressing race in a way that only he, uniquely among american presidents, could giving his first on-camera comments about a story that has spa a