doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello? ally bank. your money needs an ally. thanks for joining us. i'm karen finney. the president's words yesterday about the death of trayvon martin are echoing today across

hundreds of events around america as americans make their voices heard in this historic moment. this is drumt. >> there are very few african-american men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. that includes me. >> i'm ashamed of this president. i think he is a disgraceful. >> trayvon martin could have been me 35 years ago. >> is that the president admitting that i guess, because he was part of the gang and he smoke pot and did a little blow? >> is it really stirring the pot? >> we the jury find george zimmerman not guilty. >> george zimmerman was never guilty of anything except protecting himself in self-defense. >> he is sending a terrible message to other little black and brown boys that you can't walk fast, you can't walk slow. >> i'm thrilled with this jury kept this tragedy from becoming a travesty. >> we would like for the federal government to look into it. >> we have opened an investigation into this matter. >> there is no doubt that he was profiled to be a criminal.

>> if you could talk to george zimmerman, one case, the jury came back, as a mother, what would you say? >> i would pray for him. >> i can only imagine what they're going through. it is remarkable how they've handled it. >> thanks for joining us this afternoon. where do we go from here? that is the question that americans started to answer today as they gathered in 100 cities around the country. participating in justice for trayvon vigils. trayvon martin's father tracy joined the ma'am malevent while his mother sybrina appeared with our own reverend al sharpton in new york. it was one week ago faye a jury acquitted george zimmerman in the shooting death of trayvon martin. the nationwide effort is meant to not only amplify call for the federal government to investigate possible civil rights violations, but also to turn the conversations about

race and justice and gun laws in america that so many of us have been having. how do we turn that into constructive action? president obama himself weighed in yesterday making this a powerful surprise appearance in the james brady briefing room at the white house. >> there were very few african-american men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. that includes me. there are very few african-american men who haven't had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. that happens to me, at least before i was a senator. there are very few african-americans who haven't had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. that happens often.

>> i'm joined now by msnbc contributors joy-ann reid and thank you both for joining me. i've been looking forward to this conversation. one of the things that we haven't really talked about. i don't want to take anything away from the conversation about young black men and, black and brown, frankly. as women of color, we have our own experiences with this. and because we're mothers and daughters and sisters and friends. and you know, when i was listening to the president's remarks yesterday, i was thinking about when i was a little girl and my dad and i were driving through, late at night, dark in virginia. we get pulled over by a white officer. and i had never in my life heard anybody speak to my father this way. and he called him boy and my father, it was horrible for him. it was horrible for me. it was terrorizing. in that moment you realized,

there is nothing you can do. you have no power. so i want us to talk a little bit as women. there is an experience i think as women of color that we also have that i think at some point needs to be part of the conversation. and joy, i'm going to start with you because you talked this week about your two boys and your own experiences. >> i've been in that car. i remember going out to a dance and there were four of us in a car in cambridge, massachusetts. being pulled over and having an officer yell, get the expletive out of the car. really forcefully until it turned out my date had on a uniform. he was in rotc. once he saw he had on a marine uniform and this guy was retired military, the tenor changed. but initially it was four black people in a car. this has happened to i think almost every african-american. whether you're an african-american man or woman. you have the experience of seeing this happen to someone else, feeling this happen to yourself, your dad, your date, your boyfriend, your significant other or your child.

and if you haven't had the experience, then you fear experience. it is the nightmare of every mother that you'll find out your son has hadencounter with police that resulted in violence. what shocked and terrified mothers like me was that we're accustomed to having this conversation about police. about law enforcement. about the story that you told with your dad. about how to comport yourself. now that kind of police power is being transferred on to civilians by these gun laws that essentially say if you have a gun, you have authority. you have inherent authority. and essentially a get out of prosecution free card because using your gun gives you inherent power to enforce your fears with violence. that's terrifying. >> i want to bring you into this conversation. as i was listening to the president's remarks yesterday, i was thinking black and brown men and women, and i was thinking particularly when i listen sometimes to the tone and the tenor of the immigration debate. i have mental of friends who are

latino. who had similar experiences. we had a lot of this conversation around arizona's 1070 laws. >> exactly. sp 1070 that explicitly that you could be pulled over if you were suspected of being undocumented. they eventually tweaked and it. you have to be pulled over for something else and then they could ask you about your documentation status. but the end game is that racial profiling is a very personal issue for latinos. it is something that we saw with 2010 and it spread like wildfire across the country. we saw that if you were a latino, you are being questioned. are you legal? are you not legal? should you be in this country? should you not be in this country? and this gets to the larger racial climate and ignorance that we've been facing most recently. so mark anthony singing at the mlb all-stars game. he was singing god bless america. and that put forward a flurry of tweets saying, who is this

mexican singing, mark anthony by the way is not mexican. puerto rican descent. >> born in new york. >> super american. and this back lash toward not understanding that you can be latino and you can be part of the american fabric. and we saw this a couple weeks ago too. >> part of what the president was trying to do was to set a framework to try to have this conversation. the fact that he was, he put in it very personal turns, i hope, despite what we've seen from the right. actually lowers the temperature in some ways. i think these kinds of changes only happen when you have these conversations at the personal level. i think about the changes. in terms of how people think about marriage equality or interracial marriage. at that personal level. at the same time, we know there is reams of data that support what the president was talking about. among african-american men, ages 18-34. a quarter have that they've been treated unfairly by the police, at least once in the past month.

that's according to a new gallup poll. think about that. that's just in the past month. in 2013. and what does that add up to over a lifetime? in new york city, where the stop and frisk laws are interesting, to say the least. 87% of people targeted by police stopped and frisked were black or hispanic. and i think it is an experience that is way too common to black men and boys in this country. and you know, joy, i guess the question is, how do we use this as a foundation to move the conversation forward? i thought the president was right in saying, we don't need some big national conversation at this point. how do we each in our own lives, in our own way make sure we're doing our part in. >> absolutely. i think it is about unconscious bias. remember, george zimmerman is actually hispanic. if i lived in south florida for a long time where the racial tension isn't necessarily

white/black, as much as in south florida, latino/black. you see the miami police department being investigated by the feds. this is a largely hispanic forceful so you have actually majority/minority community. they are the mayor, the city council. then you have an african-american minority and the clash is there. sometimes these are black and hispan hispanic, asian and white. the immigration debate gets to part of. . this fear of a brown wave coming over the southern border and washing away the white minority. there are all these facets to it. what it all gets down to is your individual comfort level with people who aren't like you. since we're become a more resegregated society, where people live either culturally or ethnically, or political clirg we're so separated that we can be even have the conversations one-on-one with the people we need to. >> to the point you're making, i

think it is important we recognize that this is within communities of color. this is not just, this isn't just a black/white issue. one of the things, despite what some have said which i thought was so unprecedented. i felt like the president was trying to bring everyone into a shared american experience without a value judgment. just to say, hey, here's what our experience is. i want to make you all aware. and i thought, you know, he as a biracial person. is uniquely in a position to talk about that and to put that on the table. and i wanted to just play a clip from one of his other more memorable moments. >> we have to be vigilant and we have to work on these issues. and those of us in authority should be doing everything we can to encourage the betterness of our nature as opposed to using these els to heighten divisions.

we should also have confidence that kids these days, i think, have more sense than we did back then and certainly more than our parents did or our grandparents did. along this long, difficult journey, we're becoming a more perfect union. not a perfect union. but a more perfect union. >> you know, victoria, when i think about that, i think about grant park and just the diversity of the electorate in 2008 and 2012 which is such a broad coalition of americans. and when i hear some of the reaction to what the president said, to me, it sounds like again, the same people who are afraid of the reality that this is america today. this is not, we talk about being a majority/minority country. we're here and we're not going anywhere, right?

>> going forward, there will be more and more change. we'll see more majority/minority cities. what i found so interesting that the president did yesterday, it wasn't just him putting on his personal hat. he also put on a bit of a professorial hat. we're looking forward to the changes demographically will be in the country but we cannot move forward until we look back. and he said that sociology, history, professor hat on saying, look, we have had a history of racial divisions in this country. we are not that far removed from jim crowism. even from slavery. we need to understand what was going on with the trail trial in that context. that is going to allow us to move forward. here i saw an opt mix that things will get better. first, let's not forget what that. let's not ignore the past but go forward with it. >> i think that's right. to that point, we've seen a variety of reactions from many corners. bruce springsteen, stevie would not, beyonce who apparently was at the vigil today with reverend

sharpton. and mark o'mara put out a statement. so he responded to the president in this way. i'm going on read this. he said our president has clearly indicated he is willing to contribute to the discourse. as we begin this conversation. we want to say this. we cannot talk about race in sound bites. before you cast an opinion about what the president said, be sure to listen to his comments in full before you judge george zimmerman or disparage. joy, last question to you. we have a little time left. what struck me about that is, okay. how about the statement you made a week ago when you said, you know, if george zimmerman had been black, we wouldn't be here essentially. >> i think the problem for mark o'mara. he says that a lot. we need to have this grand conversation on race and he agrees fully. the problem people will have

with that is that photo he held up at the end of the trial. it seemed gratuitous to a lot of folks to take a picture of not trayvon martin, the living person, about but one snap shot with the shirt off and the gold teeth. those stereo types. those racial stereo types were very useful to the george zimmerman defense. to mark o'mara's credit, he used every tool in his tool kit to get his client an acquittal but some really rubbed raw the wounds of racial disparity and the feelings of african-americans that they are portrayed as always suspect. he did that too. he did it because he was being a vigorous advocate. but he did it too. and i think he needs to own that before you want to be in this conversation. people are going to resist hearing from you that that is what you did. just lastly, you do also -- i'm sorry. >> we have to leave it there. i'm so sorry! we could go on. this is such a good conversation. we need to make sure we have it again. >> i'll e-mail you the lastly. >> joy-ann reid and victoria,

thank you so much. and we'll talk about what victoria was talking about. . the so-called black leaders in this country are running a cult of victim hood that has the intended consequence of keeping the black community down. so now i can help make this a great block party. ♪ [ male announcer ] advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator working together to help improve your lung function all day. advair won't replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than twice a day. people with copd taking advair may have a higher chance of pneumonia. advair may increase your risk of osteoporosis and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition

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a very good living on peddling bias and fearful. >> you dropped like a thug, people will treat you like a thug. >> i submit if they were armed, they would have shot and killed trayvon martin a lot sooner than george zimmerman did. >> this verdict is not part of a string of defeats for the left. it is an interruption in a string of victory after victory -- >> joining me now to discuss is david brock. founder of media matters and someone who knows tactics very well. >> thank you for having me on. dade, the president didn't even speaking yesterday before extremists took to the airwaves and social media to just spew vitriol. we have a little of something that sean hannity said on his radio show yesterday. >> now the president said trayvon could have been me 35 years ago. this is a particularly helpful

comment. that the president is admitting because he was what? part of the gang and he smoked pot, did a little blow? i'm not sure how to interpret that. we know that trayvon had been smoking pot that night. i'm not sure what that means. >> you know, david, there is some tweets that we've got up here. we've got a lot on social media from conservatives. the thing that strike me about this reaction, and i want to get your take. this is the right wing, this is what they do. this is how they keep ginning it up. again, to make money. but also, to keep us divided and also to shut down conversations. because if you try to have even any kind of reasonable conversation, as i think the president was, you're a race baiter and racist and why are you bringing race into this instead of saying, i think we have a problem. let's talk about this. that seems to be a tactic of the right. >> i think that's right. let me start by saying, we've been monitoring and analyzing what the right wing says on a daily basis for nine years. and this week was really particularly a tough week.

it was really disconcerting to have to do that. to see the exploitation of the tragedy like what happened in the trayvon martin case. to stoke by the right, racial hatred and a paranoid prejudice. as you said, somewhat for commercial gain was really beyond reprehensible. when the president went out and tried to bring the country from injury to healing, the immediate response from the right by a fox news contributor to say he was a race baiter. to hear that he was a thug, a pot smoker, a cocaine head. that he was trying to lynch george zimmerman. it was really some of the ugliest rhetoric we've seen. >> i know one of the other things you guys have tracked is how fox news has been treating the case from the beginning. and one of the key things, as you guys have pointed out and others have talked about. we keep hearing this name about chicago. and it is, almost sounds like

african-americans, shooting african-americans in chicago. and it makes you feel like, what are you saying? that that's okay? it is very disturbing. >> sure, yeah. i think if you want to go to motive. we talked about the commercial motive. that's for sure. i think they're defending extreme gun laws and trying to blame the victim. and we've had a lot of quotes where people are saying that trayvon martin got what he deserved. as far as president obama goes, this is a political bludgeon. one thing that we noticed early on in the coverage of the trial is that fox and company did not really know what to do in the opening days until president obama weighed in and said that trayvon martin could be his son. and then they immediately racialized and politicized this case. >> and it sort of jumped on it. one of the other things, i know you guys have been tracking. they have been making mention of trayvon and marijuana. trayvon and gold teeth. the fact that he was wearing a hoodie. i'm sorry, the head of facebook

wears a hoodie. what does that have to do with it? heraldo rivera was trying to say the hoodie was as responsible as george zimmerman. that is lunacy. even today drudge report went so far as to display a photo shopped image of the president of the united states of america in a hoodie. they have continually been disrespectful of this president. >> absolutely. disrespectful. rush limbaugh went on the air and said he now had the ability to use the n word. it is a shame we have to rebroadcast this. paula deen's career went up in smoke for arguably less than what rush limbaugh did this week. >> in terms of consequences, and people saying, sometime i have to say, you hear rush limbaugh and you hear fox news. sometimes what is most

deafening. i don't hear other rational voices from the right traditionally sort of speaking up. i will give credit to chris wallace who yesterday basically weighed in and said, wait a second. and had a very different take on the president's response. and his comments. which i give him tremendous credit for being able to do that in the atmosphere that fox creates. >> the problem is that much of fox, not all of fox. and certainly most of talk radio is appealing to really what joy mentioned in your prior segment. there is unfortunately a part of that audience that has an irrational fear about black, social and political progress. of course the president is the personification of that. they are feeding and tapping into that. for their own cynical motives. >> you know, finally, i do want to say, again, what is so destructive about what the conservatives are doing here is again stifling what should be a conversation that they should want to be a part of, frankly, not try to pretend that there is not a problem and we don't need

it. the president really tried to, he was really trying to take us to a better place. and he said it in a positive place. kind of looking at the next generation. and that this is an issue that all of us have a role to play. and frankly, it is not just race. we were in the previous segment. black and white and gay and straight and men and women. there are a lot of conversations that we should be having and we could be having. and it has to happen at that very personal level. >> well, unfortunately, either very few responsible conservatives who want to have that debate and what we have is a conservative leadership that wants to shout down those who believe that there may have actually been injustice in this case, comparing them to race hustlers and pimps on the air. that's not rational. i'm sorry. >> you're right. it is disgusting. david brock, media matters. thank you for your time this afternoon. who doesn't like surprises?

especially on a hot and hazy summer afternoon. stay with us. this is "disrupt" on msnbc. >> kids these days i think have more sense than we did back then and certainly more than our parents did or our grandparents did. and along this long, difficult journey, we're becoming a more perfect union. not a perfect union. wait a sec! i found our colors. we've made a decision. great, let's go get you set up... you need brushes... you should check out our workshops... push your color boundaries while staying well within your budget walls. i want to paint something else. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. glidden premium interior paint, starts at a new lower price at $18.94 a gallon.

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it is very hard to surprise reporters in washington and particularly the white house press corps. they mull around waiting for their daily briefing with spokesman jay carney. however, on an otherwise unassuming summer friday, president obama unexpectedly appeared at the podium in the james brady press briefing room. and while it was the regularly

scheduled briefing time, reporters were actually still entering the room and peter alexander was dashing for his seat in the front row. and with no formal remarks, the president spoke eloquently for 18 minutes. addressing an issue that has been on the minlds of so many americans. you know, his comments though, they were all the more impactful because they were unexpected and therefore unclouded by the build-up that we usually see prior to a presidential speech. there were no excerpts released in advance for the usual speculation and hype. no surrogates to give a preor post spin. they were just the president's words. and they stood on their own. and reporters like the rest of us had to just listen and absorb what he was saying. you know, the president's remarks are likely going to be remembered among his most iconic. in part, let's not forget, that was due to the setting. a quiet friday afternoon when he spoke eloquently and personally about a very tough issue. and entered into this conversation that america needs to have.

it was a most welcome disruption and a good play of the week. coming up, the lunacy of stand your ground laws. mine was earned in djibouti, africa. 2004. vietnam in 1972. [ all ] fort benning, georgia in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve military members, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy, get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve.

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♪ ow. [ male announcer ] call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. a year ago today, a man walked into a movie theater in arecord, a colorado, and shot 12 people to death using multiple types of guns according a 12 gauge shotgun, a semi-automatic rifle with a 100-round drum, and a handgun. after the sandy hook shooting in newtown, connecticut, six months later it seemed inevitable that america would embrace new gun safety measures. while a majority of americans do support new measures, powerful forces such as the national rifle association bullied just enough members of congress to block any real action. so now in the aftermath of the shooting death of trayvon martin, americans are learning more about stand your ground

laws. in more than 30 tats the law makes it legally okay to use deadly force sufficient as shooting a gun if people feel threatened even if they could retreat to safety. as we remember all victims of gun violence from aurora to chicago to newtown and sanford and beyond, here's the question. are we finally ready to hold our politicians accountable and demand action? joining me to discuss this, john nichols, washington correspondent for the nation. and democratic strategist, julian epstein. thank you for joining me. >> thank you. >> so julian, yesterday president obama raised questions about stand your ground laws. let's take listen. >> if trayvon martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk? and do we actually think that he would have been justified in shooting mr. zimmerman who had followed him in a car? because he felt threatened.

and if the answer to that question is at least ambiguous, then it seems to me that we might want to examine those kinds of laws. >> so julian, this is a question that i've had from the beginning. at what point in an altercation like that, why was not trayvon technically standing his ground? he was in a gated community not far from his father's particle. even if that was not the kargs it seem the concept of stand your ground, at what point does the aggressor become the victim and the victim become the aggressor? >> that's exactly the question. the problem with the stand your ground laws is it creates so much ambiguity, the rules are not very clear. and as you mentioned in the set-up piece, it is not just that you have no duty to retreat. it is that you can be the initial aggressor withstand your ground laws and use a firearm to kill someone. and be able to invoke a self-defense claim. and you see two real manifestations of this. you see, there's been two good

studies that have been done, that have shown the number homicides in states that have stand your ground laws. one study in georgia showed it was going up between two and three dozen a month. a i had to in texas was showing that the increase in homicides was stand your ground laws was about 8%. a very significant number. so you have the general problem that it militaryizes our xhunlts, particularly when you have very irresponsible gun laws. but secondly to your question as well, if you have a racial problem in the criminal justice system, and society generally, it magnifies that problem. the study, the most important study that was done in the racial context showed if you have a black victim in a white assailant, the chances of the white assailant getting off on a stand your ground claim are about 11 times greater. so this is all kinds of problems. particularly when you have self-defense law that has existed in this country for well over 100 years that work very well. which was holder's point. >> exactly.

to that point the attorney general, he did mention that. we already have a rate to self-defense in his remarks. we have a short clip. take a listen. >> these laws try to fix something that was never broken. there has always been a legal defense for using deadly force if and the if is important. if no safe retreat is available. >> so in response to the attorney general, the national rifle association put out a statement saying that, quote, stand your ground laws are a fundamental human right of self-defense. but it strikes me the attorney general was basically saying, yes, we have that right. and so by focusing on what seem like a nonargument here, the nra is really distracting from the broader role these laws have played in creating this environment that is very precarious. people are using deadly force when maybe there are other things that they could be doing. and as you pointed out earlier this week in your rt rog, there are actually some states that

are trying to, that are looking at how to repeal these laws. >> well, this is a big deal. the thing that you're getting at here is so important. we've had people like senator ted cruz step up and say when the president of the united states raised questions about how stand your ground laws work, that the president was showing case regard for the constitution and the bill of rights. well, stand your ground laws weren't written in 1781. they've only been on the books since 2005. they've been put on the books not in the federal level but in the states. some states have them. some don't. they vary from state to state. most were put on the books as part of a template developed by the national rifle association and the exchange council. the thing that's important, they were put on the books as part of a campaign by those entities, not a cry from the people that these laws exist. so what we need to do in states across this country.

what some people are starting to do is reexamine these laws. there is a good argument that they shouldn't be on the books at all. in states that want to keep them on the books, there is a very strong argument for looking at them anew and making sure they're clarified in a way that they don't become really a license to commit acts. >> sure. go ahead. >> so the idea that the president didn't understand the constitution when he -- it is just nonsense. the supreme court has ruled on this. the supreme court in the heller decision that your right to self-defense with a gun has only recognized your right to self-defense with a gun in your home. not outside the home. that's point one. point two, the refrain you hear from the nra -- >> isn't the point that they're expanding that. in your home and -- >> stand your ground laws somehow grounded in the constitution. it is just wrong as a constitutional matter. it is just wrong. >> and also --

>> go ahead and finish. >> the other point that is very important to understand on self-defense. it is the refrain of the nra any time somebody challenges stand your ground laws. if self-defense is so important. look at the date. a it just belies that. we have 11,000 homicides, gun-related homicides in this country every year. of those 11,000, only 250, less than 2%, are found to be justifiable uses of deadly force with homicide. self-defense cases. 2% of the cases of the homicides are self-defense. 98% of the times when we have gun-related homicides, they're criminal. so the data is just overwhelming. the gun laws, together i think with the stand your ground laws are creating a much, much more bad things in our society than good things. >> just before we go, speaking of the nra. despite the fact that there are groups that are fighting for gun safety measures.

as you said, at the state level. reexamining some of these laws. the nra wields a lot of power and influence. and they were successful this week. this he got a recall election scheduled for two senators who had supported tougher gun safety measures. this is in colorado. we know that the nra still has a huge spell over congress them donated about 650,000 to congress to congressional candidates in 2012 and overwhelmingly to republicans. we keep coming back to, the law is there. the statistics are there. the emotion is there. with you the nra and its money continue to throw up a wall to change. >> here's the good news. and there is good news on this. the stand your ground laws are not federal laws. we've had a challenge. a great challenge taking on the nra at the congressional level. that is very obvious from what's

happened in the last year. but there are dozens of states across the country where tan your ground laws are on the books. some of those states have a real political play that make it possible to bring up a serious discussion. you're already seeing it happening from florida. it's not just democrats asking questions. some republicans are as well. so when we look at this, we have to recognize that because this plays out in the states, it creates an opening for winds on behalf of more sensible laws. you might not always have at the federal level. >> as the dream defenders pointed out this week at the state level. that action actually matters. activism matters. thank you both. coming up, how today's peaceful rallies could translate into action at the ballot box. >> not only do i vow to you to do what i can for trayvon

martin. i promise you, i'm going to work hard for your children as well. because it's important.

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we asked you disruptors what you thought about president obama's remarks yesterday. and here's just one of the many responses that we got on facebook and twitter. elaine wrork he put it out there, karen. we need to have an honest conversation about race in this country and this includes white, black, brown, people of all races. i completely agree. we want to keep the conversation going. we'll post some of these on our facebook page so take a look and don't forget to follow us at msnbc "disrupt." next, don't get mad or get a little mad. but vote. get out there. this is drumt. living flake-free with head & shoulders? since before jeans were this skinny... since us three got a haircut. since my first 29th birthday [ female announcer ] head & shoulders. the number one dermatologist recommended dandruff brand. [ herbie ] there's no doubt about it brent,

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. we've been talking about the immediate impact of the president's remarks yesterday. what about ahead to 2014 mid-term elections? "the new york times" was out this week with another forecast.

he said republican there's pick up five or six senate seats in next year's mid material elections which would get them to 50 or 51, just enough to overcome vice president biden's tie-breaking vote. i have a little experience with elections myself and these predictions were made by pundits the exact same time in the 2006 mid terms and that ended up being a thumping for republicans. with so many important issues at stake including women's rights, voting rights, race, gun safety issues, will the turnout next year be enough to rebuff the predictions once again and bring out the obama electorate that we saw in 2008 and 2012? joining me now, democratic pollster, margie and chief washington correspondent john harwood. thank you both for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> congratulations again on the fantastic show. >> thank you. i want to start with you. talk about what you're tracking. one of the things that struck me

when i read nato's piece is that there's the reading of the numbers and then there's the reading of the emotions and the intensity of what people are feeling. what are you seeing right now in term of the 2014 electorate in. >> well, there are a few things. there are some challenges. in that offyear. it is not like elections. i think it is important to look at the trends and how 2010 compared to 2006. because 2010 obviously was not a good year for democrats. but the racial make-up, the% that were african-american. the% that were under 30. that was actually up changed the from 2006. the real difference was in how independents behaved and the slight difference in the party breakout. so there is more to thinking about 2014 than simply laying it on the feet of presidential voters. it is looking at which party has control of the narrative and which party looks like they are moving in the right direction.

and republicans continue to be net unfavorable, more unfavorable than used toward democrats. and you have republicans across the board not able to do this autopsy that they said they were going to do after the election. because there was more than just changing the pizza box. it is more about changing their policies in the sense that they care about the whole country. and carl rove even had it right in the "washington journal." we haven't just been the party for white people. if that's something that has to be written, that's the sign of a party that is losing its way in material of trying to expand their base. >> you know, to this point, and i know wrote earlier this year that you didn't think this could be what we would call in politics, a wave election. where again, some of these issues actually change the composition, the size of the electorate in 2014. if we look at the record african-american turnout, i want to look at north carolina. it is interesting, what's going on there. you had close to yam% turnout

among african-americans, 66% among women. now, those demographics, granted. some of these folks are people who don't turn out in the mid-term. these are folks who are at this point becoming more motivated, if you will, by some of the thing we're seeing happen at the state level with regard to a woman's right to make her own decisions about her health care. and with regard to the voting rights act. so how do we think that could shape 2014? >> well, to the extent the democrats can generate energy, especially around social issues, that will help. you can see them trying to do that now in virginia governor's race. i think the reason why this isn't going to be a wave election, each side has some things working in their favor. republicans have a very good map. they have seats open in states that are very good for them. they have fact that intensity in an offyear election, tends to be with the party that is out of power of the white house. the things that are working, the other thing they have working is

the fact, as you were discussing, an offyear election, the electorate doesn't look like the presidential electorate with some of the voters, african-american, hispanic who turned out. young people who turned out for president obama. working for the democrats is, you have the economy is improving. that help the president and therefore helps his party. secondly, you've got the republican brand is way under water still. and third, you've got continued demographic change. which blunts the extent to which you have to fall off in the electorate from presidential to nonpresidential. eventually those demographic trends wash through offyear as well as presidential. but just not with the same kind of scale. >> i'm going to make a prediction if democrats would spend money on changing the electorate of 2014, we might see democrats do well. i want to thank you both. we have to leave it there. that does it for me.

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get the blood tests. change your number. turn it up. androgel 1.62%. good evening, americans, live from new york. it's 5:00. let's get to work. >> is the president easing racial 10:00 or stoking racial tension? >> is he possibly stoking racial tension? >> trayvon martin could have been me 35 years ago. >> i would expect some guys will go over the top. just my guess. i hope not. >> is that the president admitting i guess because what? he was part of the choom gang? >> they are at this through a set of experiences and history that doesn't go away. >> it is the narrative. this country is still a slave state for all intercepts and purposes. >>