l along the way. it's part of our goal to inspire more than three million people to rediscover the joy of being active this summer. see the difference all of us can make... together. this sunday the president seeks to ignite a new conversation about race in america. >> that could have been me 35 years ago. >> the president's deeply personal remarks about the after afte after-effects of the george zimmerman trial, racial profiling and the plight of african-american boys in the criminal justice system and our society. >> if trayvon martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk? >> this morning, a special discussion about the race relations and impact of the president's remarks on the black community and beyond. with us, the president of the

national league. former chairman of the rnc seat, michael steele. plus, the remarkable financial collapse of a major american city. detroit files for bankruptcy. what's next for its residents including thousands of city employees and retirees? what does it say about the plight of american cities in this fragile economic recovery. we'll hear from the current and former governors of the state, republican rich snyder, and his predecessor, democrat jennifer granholm. insights and analysis from david brooks from "the new york times" and nbc's chuck todd. >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the world's longest running television program, this is "meet the press" with david gregory. good sunday morning. a week after the not guilty verdict for george zimmerman,

justice for trayvon rallies outside federal buildings yesterday in 100 u.s. cities, including new york, los angeles, and dallas. the message of rally organizers they say should focus more attention on race and crime in america. that's where we begin this morning. we've got a special group to talk about this very issue, particularly after the president's remarks on friday afternoon. joining me chair of the congress black caucus, marsha fudge of ohio. former chair of the rnc, michael steele. harvard law professor who taught both barack and michelle obama at harvard, tafis smiley. and president and ceo of urban league, mike morial. welcome to all of you. >> thank you. >> what a unique time for any presidency. describe the impact of the president coming out at the white house, speaking about race

in such a personal and, frankly, off-the-cuff way. >> i was very proud, quite frankly. i think that it was timely, but more importantly i think that he could feel the anger that was going around across this country. and he felt that he needed to respond in a way that i think took a lot of courage. for him to basically say that we have a situation where a young man is basically convicted of his own murder, that someone can hunt you down, and then say, i'm afraid and kill you, he made it clear that trayvon martin had rights as well. and he made it clear as well that african-american men for histories -- for a very long time, have had to deal with this problem. >> you know, as i talked to people inside the white house, there was a sense that he wanted to provide context for this debate. and i think it's important for people who may have missed the comments to hear more from the president on friday, again, comparing himself to trayvon martin. i want to show a portion of

that. >> when trayvon martin was first shot, i said that this could have been my son. another way of saying that is, that trayvon martin could have been me. 35 years ago. and when you think about why in the african-american community at least, there's a lot of pain around what happened here. i think it's important to recognize that the african-american community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences. and a history. that doesn't go away. >> a history that doesn't go away. tavis smiley, you were critical of the president. you said on twitter that his comments were as sweet as pre-sweetened kool-aid, he took too long to show up and express

outrage. >> i'm glad he indeed finally did show up. but he did not walk to the podium for an impromptu address to the nation. he was pushed to that podium. a week of protests outside the white house, pressure building on him inside the white house, pushed him to that podium. so i'm glad he finally arrived. but when he left the podium he still had not answered the most important question, where do we go from here. that question this morning remains unanswered. at least from the perspective of the president. the bottom line is, this is not libya. this is america. on this issue, you cannot lead from behind. what's lacking in this moment is moral leadership. the country is begging for it. they're craving it. and i disagree with the president respectfully that politicians, elected officials can't occupy this space on race. lincoln did, truman did, johnson did, president obama did. he's the right person in the

right place at the right time. but he has to step into his moment. i don't want him to be like bill clinton regretting he didn't move on rwanda, and realize he didn't do as much as he could have. >> to tavis's point, criticism has been building over the week. that he had imposed himself in silence about this race. during this period of self-imposed silence, we have walked our criminal laws racialized, soaring rates of unemployment, disproportionate prison sentences, unequal access to health care and healthy food, shootings of unarmed black men by police. these are treated with indifference and content. that that is not part of this president's agenda. >> president obama has been talking about race and doing

things about race for a long time. the reality is, he walked to the podium, he wasn't pushed to the podium, he walked to the podium. he's been trying to have this conversation. this pushed him over the level and what he said about trayvon was a continuation of what he said when he was shot in february of 2012. he said, let's have a conversation on race. let's convene that. let's talk about -- we made progress as a society, but we still have a long way to go. i think what he said and what he did and what he represents to us is a sense -- people keep making him as the black president. he's a president who happens to be black. he can do what he can do for all of us but not simply focus on one issue. >> david, what the president did is open the door. >> yeah. >> to begin a conversation. one speech can't outline every single action, step that needs to be taken. and i think the president agonized. it's not difficult to be a carry

the burdens of history in a nation with so much history. but what he did, i think, is start the process and sort of sanction, if you will, the need for there to be a discussion. and i expect that there will be more. because one thing is certain. the emotional court and the response, the vigils yesterday, the civil rights continuation march on august 24th, the urban league conference that will take place this week in philadelphia, this conversation at the grass roots level, at the community level, within board rooms and suites also has just begun. what i hope it leads to, and what i hope we will see is not only a discussion that started and ends quickly, but a discussion that will lead to serious actions, steps by the nation. >> but that's the key piece, a discussion that starts and ends quickly. i haeearken back to the gun debe

and the president bootstrapped the argument with his initial comments, the day of the jury verdict, in a way that it was disconnected. and if you look at the momentum behind that discussion coming off of sandy hook, and the raw emotion from the american people saying, we want something done here. let's move on this. what happened? the discussion dissipated. this was something that the president came in again and heralded it. but then let the steam fall out of it. so my concern on this is, it's great to step to the podium. i tend to agree with tavis, it's great to step to the podium to be in that moment, but then it's enot so much leading, but continuing to inspire the conversation, so that it doesn't die on the vine, that it does get a life of its own. this is a conversation, quite honestly, folks, we need to have first in the black community. not putting it so much op the president. >> but look, it is the president must lead. but the president needs cohorts.

>> that's where we come in. >> but wait a minute. let me make my point. my point is that in order to move a piece of legislation, in order to move action steps, the president can in fact lead. the president is also in an environment of continuing obstruction. that you know well, that you report -- >> but respectfully, mark, nobody argued he's been up against a headwind. with all due respect to my friend charles oeg will tree, lay on the table right now of how the president has been trying to have a conversation about race. let me finish -- i don't think we have a litany here where he's tried to have the conversation. contrary, he's trying to avoid the conversation. number two, when he says a politician can't have an impact on this, yes, he gives a wonder if will speak, but he kicks it

back to the community leaders, to business leaders, to celebrities and athletes. but the president can't absolve himself from it. and finally, number three, i don't know how the president argues he doesn't believe he can have a role in leading us in a moral conversation. this is not a political issue, this is a moral issue. he can't lead us in a conversation on this, but he can on gay marriage? and not race? >> but what is this in particular? the president spoke about ringing by us from our lives. these are intimate conversations between blacks and whites that are very difficult to have in a big public setting. but when you start boiling it down, i thought the question he was asking is, what is the "this"? there's no federal program to deal with this. >> there is no federal program to lead on this. when he gave the state of the union address this past year, he talked about the idea that we have to do something about guns. and he talked candidly about that. he talked about gabby giffords

and all the victims. we simply want a vote. that was him saying, i want this to happen. and there was a vote. and it failed. so he's been pushing that issue on and on again. in terms of what he's done for the community it's obvious when you look at the things that make a big difference. he's been pushing a job plan from the beginning without success. he believes in that. i think the reality is we're expecting all this things from barack obama as if he's the man who can do it. there's a congressional role, there's a judicial role and it's not just him. there's more that needs to be done. >> let me see if i can put this in context as well. you look at what has happened in 2013. we've obviously got the trayvon martin that everybody's talking about. this is happening to black boys across this country every day. you look at the fact that we have a supreme court that just gutted the voting rights act. and trying to do something with the house of representatives who just last week took food stamps

out of the farm bill. you look at this past week where they have decided to block grant to title 1. we are being attacked from so many sides, that you have to decide at some point where you can have the most impact. i think the president said what he believed. he tried to make people understand that this is not just about some kid with a hoodie. i think also we have to look at the facts that there is a broader discussion that we need to have. yes, we need to have a discussion on race. we also need to have a discussion on how we are treating poor and minority people in this country. >> how about the particular issue of the law that seemed to loom so large over this situation, and that is the stand your ground law. in florida, 21 other states, they really redefind the concept of what we consider to be self-defense. the attorney general was in florida this week and he spoke about it in a way that the president echoed later. >> it's time to question laws

that senselessly expand the concept of self-defense in our neighborhoods. these laws try to fix something that was never broken. there has always been a legal defense for using deadly force if -- and the if is important -- if no safe retreat is available. >> now, michael steele, some republicans have immediately politicized this into the gun debate and said -- when i say politicized, i'm not making a judgment, but they're putting this into the gun argument about the ability to defend one's self. in this particular case, you have the police officers who told george zimmerman, don't pursue this young man. he gets back in this car, he feels threatened and follows him. that's what the attorney general, what the president's talking about. >> and that's what the facts tell us. but the question now becomes, is this a role -- proper role for the federal government to go into all 50 states, versus the

states to go now and tell them how to change their laws or remake their laws? no, this is something that has to get worked out state by state. you have 21 states, other states out there as well. it's not just florida. when we start this conversation, you have people talking about, well, i'm going to boycott florida. i'm not going to perform there. i'm not going to go there. you're not going to the other 21 other states? there has to be a legal of consistency, number one. on the political side of it, number two, the facts of the trayvon martin case, this was not brought into it. this was not the underlying argument that was made. the defense backed off of that. >> yes. >> but i understand -- >> however -- >> can i finish? >> there was a jury instruction, and people have missed the fact that the jury instruction was cited by one of the jurors as the reason for the acquittal. so it was an issue in the case. these stand your ground laws, what's striking about them is how they got on the books. they got on the books because of

an effort by the nra in conjunction with the american -- with alec to pass them in states across the nation. it is the role of a nation's chief justice officer, who is the attorney general -- >> and the -- >> do you know who views the stand your ground law in florida the most? it's african-americans. >> but that doesn't mean -- >> but i'm just saying, a lot of people -- >> they're using them around the country. >> but what i'm saying -- >> the hypocrisy, mark mentioned the nra. the hypocrisy of the nra is on full display here. we have not yet heard, and i predict you'll never hear the nra say that if trayvon martin had a gun, he would still be alive. they haven't said this yet. >> let's put that out then. put it right here. >> yeah. >> the most important thing is that the stand your ground law is one of the things that has incited and ignited, i believe

this movement across the nation, which i think, david, is the beginning of a new civil rights movement. to challenge these issues because of what the congresswoman has said. the landscape has changed. the voting rights act decision by the supreme court, which was striking in its superficiality, the trayvon martin incident, and everything from the police officers not arresting george zimmerman at the very beginning, to the need for a special prosecutor to the fact that the special prosecutor herself did not participate in trying the case, to the composition of the jury, to the way in which the case was tried, to the verdict, strikes people as mountains of evidence. >> let me ask this. professor, the attorney general's looking at this as a potential civil rights violation against george zimmerman. i heard the president sort of lower expectations. on what basis? >> the reality is that this is not a federal issue, it's a state issue. states have moved forward and

talked about stand your ground as well as other issues as well. i think he's saying, we could be behind that, rodney king, it was the state that started, didn't do well and the federal government came in. a lot of these cases people being assassinated, people being killed, beaten, it always -- the federal government is there in response to that, but not the one to -- >> i think, david, that's what the protesters, and i celebrate them, i applaud these protesters in all the cities yesterday. the president said to us, this ain't going no further. you can protest and rally, but i don't think the justice -- >> i don't think he said this. the mistake that people make is to pre-judge an investigation before it takes place. >> the attorney general will decide. but the president did -- >> about you talk about legislation, i understand about the stand your ground laws, but there are some things we can do. we as a congressional black caucus have put in place, at least drafted over the last

couple of weeks racial profiling laws. that's what this was. i don't care what they say it was, that's what it was. if we start doing things from the congressional perspective, maybe that would help. but i don't care how many laws you put in place, you cannot legislate against prejudice or bias or racism. you cannot do it. so all we can do is the best we can. >> talking about the morality of -- >> from bill cohen in the "washington post," i'll put it up on the screen and get your reaction to it. richard cohen, excuse me. where is the politician that will own up to the painful complexity of the problem and acknowledge the widespread fear of crime committed by black young males. this does not mean the raw racism has di appeared. the public knows young black males commit disproportionate amount of the crime. almost all of them young men.

tavis, the president made a point of acknowledging that. >> he's right. he acknowledged, that number one. number two, most blacks are killed by other african-americans and most whites are killed by whites. i'm sick of having this debate. you kill people in the community where you live and work and rob. that's how this works, number one. but all i'm saying is this, this is is chiros moment. i'm not part of that anything is enough generation. i want the president to step in this moment as coleman just pointed out and lead us in a complex conversation about these very difficult issues. i don't want him to shrink from the calling of this moment historically. we'll regret this later on. >> in three years we found something we agree on. >> one of the reasons that african-american men in new york city make up a disproportional number is because of profiling. you've got two kids on a street,

in new york in particular, with their stop and frisk policies, they're going to pick up the black kid. not to say the white kid wasn't committing the crime. or they decide, he's from a good family. let's put him in the diversion program. but the black kid gets a record. profiling has to do with those numbers as well. they're skewed based upon the perception that black kids -- >> one thing that's going to have to be on the table is the economic opportunity. >> absolutely. >> whether it be jobs. and the obstructionism about summer jobs, jobs plans, jobs training taking place in this nation, after the recession when this unemployment rate is so high, it can't be done with a lawsuit approach alone, it has to be done with an economic opportunity approach. so i hope that this conversation is going to confront the very challenging issue of economic opportunity. >> i'm struck going back to the president's notable 2008 speech as a candidate, the extent to which he was saying, in advance,

i, as a black man, even if i become president, can only do so much. because he talked about the country being stuck on race. this is what else he said back in 2008. >> contrary to the claims of some of my critics, black and white, i have never been so naive to believe that we can get beyond our racial divisions in a single election cycle, or a single candidate. [ applause ] particularly a candidacy as imperfect as my own. >> i want to wind this up, professor, by asking you, was that self-imposed sense of limitation appropriate and did he go beyond it on friday? >> i think he's gone beyond it. trayvon martin will be with us in eternity. that's what he's done. the president has moved trayvon martin up to be a symbol of racial profiling in america. whether he's here or not we'll be discussing that and debating that. i think we'll have the real

conversation about race going forward. >> as long as he stands his ground and leads us into a moral conversation. >> but is is this the wrong issue? is it wrong to inject race into the martin case, michael steele, as some conservatives and others have argued that this is the wrong moment? >> i think it's not the wrong moment to inject race. i think race is a part of it, an underlying theme or feeling that, particularly the african-american community takes away from that. you can't just leave it on the table because you don't believe it's there. >> i realize this scratches the surface, but it was still a good conversation. i appreciate you all being here very much. mark, you'll stick around, we'll talk about detroit. we're going to talk about detroit in distress. the city that becomes the latest and largest to file for bankruptcy. did the politicians fail the motor city. we'll talk to the republican

commissioner. former democratic governor granholm, to talk about the larger questions. is there something detroit can tell us about america's fiscal future. this short commercial break. short commercial break. >> announcer: meet the press i wanted to ask you a couple questions.card. i've got nothing to hide. my bill's due today and i haven't paid yet. you can pay up 'til midnight online or by phone the day it's due. got a witness to verify that? just you. you called me. ok, that checks out. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you.

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our political roundtable is here. i'll talk to them in just a moment. but i want to begin with rick snyder. welcome. >> thank you, david. >> the historic filing of bankruptcy by detroit is such a big story. i was immediately drawn to something you said back in june of 2011, and i'll put it up on the screen. the headline, bankruptcy not an option for cities. governor snyder said he won't let detroit or any other michigan cities declare bankruptcy. detroit is not going into

bankruptcy. snyder told reporters we'll work hard to make sure we don't need an emergency manager and bankruptcy shouldn't be on the table. so what happened? >> we worked hard on the process. that's something to be avoided. it's not something i'm happy to be in this situation. this was a very tough decision. but it's the right decision. pause ultimately the issue we need to do is get better services for the 700,000 people of detroit. the citizens of detroit deserve better than they're getting today, in addition to dealing with the crushing debt question. we went there all the other processes we could. there were no other viable options. once you go through every other option, then you should consider bankruptcy. we're at that point. i believe it's the right thing to do now, because the focus needs to deal with this debt question, but even more importantly, david, the citizens of detroit deserve better services. 58-minute response times on police calls is unacceptable. >> 50% of the parks closed since 2008, 40% of the street lights don't work.

how have politicians let the motor city down? >> well, again, this is 60 years of decline. this has been kicking the can down the road for 60 years. my perspective on it is, enough is enough. there needs to be more accountability in government. let's stand up and deal with this tragic situation and take care of the citizens. that's what this is all about. this is drawing that line to say, let's not go downhill. if we had not declared bankruptcy, detroit would have gone farther downhill. this is an opportunity to stabilize detroit, and longer term, i'm bullish about the growth opportunities of detroit. there are many outstanding things going on in the city, with young people moving into the city. it's got great opportunity. the last major obstacle is the city government. >> you've got $18 billion in debt. a friend of mine i talked to said, you know, is this america? look what's happening. how do you recover? you've got some 20,000 retirees there who rely on pension checks

which is grossly underfunded. how do you find a way back? how does a city like this turn itself around? >> you get honest about it, to start with. that's about accountability and putting the facts on the table. that's been a big part of this exercise. in many cases over the last 60 years people have ignored the reality of the situation. but we're being real now and putting the facts on the table. the retirees, i empathize with them. >> can you possibly make good on all those commitments made to retirees? >> let me put it in super speck tiff for you. it allows a positive in the sense that we were talking to a lot of creditors. one of the issues not represented well enough is the retirees. so proactively in the bankruptcy petition, one thing we're asking for is the judge right up front to appoint someone to represent the retirees. they need to be at the table and have a voice. i want to speak to the retirees themselves, to the degree the pension plans are funded, that doesn't affect us at all. the bankruptcy is about the

unfunded portion of the pension liability. which is still significant. but the funding piece is safe. the real question is, how do we address the unfunded piece. if you go back in history, it's an ugly history of how this pension fund was managed. >> as is the case in a lot of cities. the role of the federal government is a big question here. the federal government intervened when the auto industry needs a bailout. here are some of the facts about the auto bailout, and about the current debt that detroit has. you had 80-plus billion dollars that flowed to the auto companies when they needed help. newyou've got a total debt in detroit of $80 billion. is there not some bailout? >> i'm not going to speak for the federal government. i think they can be an important partner in solving problems. this isn't just about writing

checks. this is about improving detroit. one thing i'm proud of that we're partners with the federal government, the city and the state working together is blight removal. we'll start to implement $100 million program to remove some of the 78,000 blighted structures in detroit, hopefully in the next 30 days. that's one of the positive steps. we don't have to wait for all the bankruptcy in, we're moving now on improving detroit and getting better services for those great people. >> governor, thank you for your time with us here today. >> thank you. >> as i make my way over to our roundtable, we will hear from, among others, the former go governor from michigan, jennifer granholm. and how politicians have spoken about detroit. here's president obama from october of last year. >> we refuse to throw in the towel and do nothing. we refuse to let detroit go bankrupt. i bet on american workers and american ingenuity.

>> good morning to all of you. governor granholm, when the president speaks about detroit, he doesn't mean the city of detroit, he means the auto companies. they got better. detroit did not. >> right. that's a really important distinction because people are assuming that when he said we're not going to let de droit go bankrupt, that he meant detroit the city. it's two different entities. but the city of detroit is the poster child for the decentralization of america, david. since 1950, which was the heyday of detroit's burgeoning auto industry, there were three -- almost 300,000 automotive -- or manufacturing jobs in the city. 300,000. today, it's 27,000. that's a 90% decline in good paying manufacturing jobs. so the real question is, not just about tearing down blight, it's what are we going to do as a nation to create good paying middle class jobs in a country that has a policy of being

completely hands-off with the economy. we have to have a manufacturing policy. an advanced manufacturing policy and give states a chance to build a cluster to compete. >> some criticism from conservatives say, look, you've had 50 years of democratic rule in the city of detroit. you've had unions, not only in detroit but other cities, who are pursuing pensions and retirement policies that are completely unsustainable. and that there has been some level of denial. even you in 2009, "time" magazine interviewed you and the question was, will detroit ever really recover in your honest opinion? you said absolutely. we have great bones as a city and state and more engineers in this region than any other states including can canada and mexico combined. we're hit harder than any other state in the country. what you're saying is it's much bigger than a financial crisis? >> it is bigger. but the whole point of my saying that is, detroit does have great

bones. but what we need is a strategy nationally, like other countries have, to keep and create good paying middle class jobs here. and we need a congress that would support that strategy. you talk about the pension. movies have said cities across the country have $2 trillion worth of pension unfunded liability. this is not just detroit. there are 50,000 communities across the country that have lost factories since the year 2000. this is not a democratic problem. this is a problem across the country. >> chuck todd, who let detroit down? which politicians? >> i think there was poor governance in detroit for a very long time. this turned into a machine political town. in my 25 years of following politics, you know, it was a city -- i remember the first reform move of detroit, archer elected mayor, replacing the young era. there were a lot of cities that did that.

the first marion berry mayor. but one mayor couldn't change things because you had 30 years of cronyism. it was a machine of politics. if i told you -- if i told you that a city on the border of america's largest trading partner couldn't figure out how to diversify its economy, you would have to say, it's not just poor city governance, poor governance on -- it is sort of remarkable detroit where it's located is not -- ended up in the position it's in. >> but the bigger issue here, because this detroit and what the governor's mentioned and other communities and other urban cities is the result also of public policies at the national level, when it comes to trade, when it comes to the failure to invest in manufacturing, to watch all of our jobs go abroad and not have a response. the other thing that grates

many, people, we could bail out the banks at a very hefty price, or the auto industry at a very hefty price. but when it comes to the urban communities, where the poor are, the deteriorating infrastructure of our communities, we have excuses. we have an evident to simply say, the problems are in city hall. get your governance straight and then we'll help you. i hope this means there will be a renewed interest in urban american communities. for the national government to recognize we need a concerted effort to compete with china and -- >> is that the fair comparison? i made it with governor snyder. >> we've got two narratives here. one is the decentralization. the other is institutional failure. decentralization just didn't happen in detroit, it happened in nashville, twin cities, san francisco, and most other places. >> pittsburgh. >> pittsburgh. probably the best parallel, because they had economic diversity, they had education

and did not have institutional failure. detroit is the declining 101. you've got entrenched elites, they're together forever and ever. they get a culture of cronyism and it just collapses. >> you talk about major institutions, whether washington is broken, schools, cities. george packer, we discussed the book he's written about the inner history of the new america. it writes this in part, no one can say when the unwinding began when the coil that held americans together in its secure and sometimes stifling grip first gave way. like any great change, the unwinding began in countless ways at some moment the country crossed the line and it became irretrievably different. you watched structures that had been in place before your birth collapse, like pillars of salt across the vast visible

landscape. you think about this concept of whether this is american decline or something much more temporary and narrow. >> neither. it's not american decline. it's class. we've had a lot of discussion about race on the show today. to me the class divide is greater than the education divide. you're not seeing decline, you've got intact family structures, rising incomes, you're fine. if you're in the lesser class, you're seeing collapsing social structures, 70% of african-american kids born out of wedlock, high percent of poor white kids. you see this collapse of order on the bottom. if you were born in a certain class, you just go along the tracks, and you're okay. >> you know what, david, that's n inconsistent with the lower class. i think the class divide combined with the race divide is

america's greatest 21st century challenge. it changes the world in which we live, with new competitors all across the globe. and within the changing demographics of america. and so we had substantial progress in the middle of the 20th century when it came to closing the class divide. we've departed from that. what i'm concerned with is we in many, many polite circles do not think that that class divide is a challenge to americans' economic competitiveness. >> my mother was born in detroit, when a middle class job in possible that you could sustain a family on. >> that's the whole point is, if we want congress to act on anything, it is on a strategy to keep and create middle class jobs in america. you're right. but we are seeing the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, and the group is getting larger in the poor.

how do we create in a global economy middle class jobs in america. other countries are doing this. we have not. what we can learn from germany, we think that because we are exceptional as a nation, that we ought not about borrowing best practices from other countries. when in fact the other countries have figured out how to crack the code to create manufacturing jobs in their nations. why can't we. it's because we have gridlock in congress that refuses to have any hands-on when it comes to the economy. >> let me get a break in here and come back. i want to return to the topic of the president and his comments on friday. where he's choosing to make an impact in his second term with a lot of big issues at stake as well. more with our roundtable after this. et's go get you set up... you need brushes... you should check out our workshops... push your color boundaries while staying well within your budget walls. i want to paint something else.

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i want to spend a few minutes going back to the topic of presidential leadership, the president talking about race. i wanted your perspective. i'm paraphrasing here, that once the president had reached the white house, and now quoting, it appeared his intense interest in the subject of race diminished. he would be judged by the content of his presidency, not the color of his skin. race became unimportant for the first black president of the united states. he rarely spoke about it. this a big departure. >> it seemed superficially unimportant. but remember, race is his first subject, if you had a black father and white mother. and the other issues the way he

framed race and started thinking about race, his tendency to do on the one hand on the other, his desire to reconcile opposites, his ability to see different points of view, all the stuff we've come to see to apply to other issues, it started with race. i thought this speech was a sim to any of executive responsibility, personal feeling. all these different things woven together beautifully. it's important to remember, race is how he started. >> again, i come back, because i want to make sure i represent the other side as well. some conservatives said, look, this is the wrong moment to eject race into the trial. their view. and for the president to speak out in this way. >> i guess i would disagree with him. i think if the young man had been a white kid and the older guy had been a black guy, it would be a different story. and the president said that. i think that happens to be true. >> i think this was the president speaking as a witness to white people. it was really a conversation to

explain to white people why there was so much angst in the african-american community about this. and the reason why this was an important moment is because we have not arrived. and those in the conservative community that would say that this was not race need to understand that the moment they can say that i would trade places with an african-american person, and feel like i've not lost any of my benefits, or privileges, that's the point we will have arrived. but we vice president gotten there yet. >> i will say this, this is a moment for the obama presidency. and barack obama, the person. because i believe that he addressed something that i know was deep -- that's been deep in his consciousness for the first five years of his presidency. i think what he may have thought is actions speak louder than words. that in fact, if you confront health care disparities through the health care law, predatory

lending through the frame, enforce the civil rights laws, that would be enough. but i think this may be a recognition of the power of the presidency is the bully pulpit. the power to lead the nation, it's important to look at barack obama's presidency as a transformative presidency, in terms of what the nation will become in the 21st century. we've got to see this moment as a nation. i think barack obama opened the door. my prayer and hope is that it's going to be a conversation that's going to lead to concrete steps and action, not just by the president, but that it's going to spur others. >> chuck, if you look at other areas, how does the president use his second term? where does he intervene on some of these key issues? we see how he's done it here. and as the mayor points out, we'll see where he goes with that, whether it's immigration or the implementation of health care. >> what was interesting about the conversation you had at the

beginning of the show, too much caution. you know, that in many ways, that description of president obama on many issues is too cautious, he waits too long to speak out or use the bully pulpit. one other observation that i wanted to give on the speech that he made on friday is, that was also the son of an anthropologist. people always forget that. his mother was an anthropologist, an observer of communities interacting. she obviously did it overseas in indonesia. you see that as always the intellectual way he looks at this. again, that was obama the -- >> and the la professor. ogletree said before the question -- >> and then he backs away. but remember, one of the things on race, you know, david said, he wants to back off. when he was thinking about

running for president, one of the greatest assets he thought is just him winning the presidency, he could be a total failure as a president. winning the presidency meant he was going to have broken the ceiling for african-american men. the simple action was going to make him a role model and say, you know what, young african-american men have -- it's not just about getting out of poverty through athletics, or through entertainment. there are other ways. he was going to be a role model. >> tim robinson said, no caption necessary. >> pushing immigration reform, among americans under 5 years old, whites are a minority. we're going to have a very different conversation in a few years when it's much more multi-ethnic. i would be fascinated to see how the racial discussion will look. >> it's already transforming. the discussion is already changing about the dynamic of the nation. but the important thing is,

we're at the beginning of this transformation. and we've got to seize the moment. >> we come from cities where this has already happened. mine in los angeles. >> absolutely. >> where it was blacks and whites now hispanics and whites. it's a complicated conversation. we'll take a break and come back with more, including a tribute to the pioneering journalist helen thomas who died yesterday at the age of 92. er. would you mind if i go ahead of you? instead we had someone go ahead of him and win fifty thousand dollars. congratulations you are our one millionth customer. nobody likes to miss out. that's why ally treats all their customers the same. whether you're the first or the millionth. if your bank doesn't think you're special anymore, you need an ally. ally bank. your money needs an ally. peoi go to angie's listt for all kinds of reasons. to gauge whether or not the projects will be done in a timely fashion and within budget. angie's list members can tell you which provider is the best in town.

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the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy. ♪ thanks to all of you. before we go, "meet the press" minute, helen thomas passed away yesterday. in 1960 she became the first female reporter to cover the white house full-time and quickly became known for keeping presidents and their administrations on their toes. >> helen -- >> who was to blame? where did the buck stop? >> she made her mark from the very first time she was on "meet the press" back in 1976. with a pointed question that had a top adviser to president gerald ford's reelection campaign, defending the president's image. >> you have said that president

ford has an image portrayal problem. >> i have? >> you said that at your briefing at the white house, that there is some question about the image that's being portrayed of the president. >> i said that i didn't think that he was being accurately portrayed. i think a great to-do is made, for example, of tripping going down a set of stairs. and this seems to have triggered a whole lot of little phrases that i don't think accurately portray him. >> in her last appearance here new year's weekend 1993, with a nod toward her long tenure in the white house press corps, she made is quite clear there was going to be no letting up on president george h.w. bush even though he had only three weeks left in office. >> someone who has covered every

president since john f. kennedy, is that fair? >> right. >> president bush post-election day funk seems to be hitting his stride again. what do you think? >> i think he is going out of office with all flags flying. foreign policy is his forte, and he's had big successes. but on the other hand, he'll come back tonight and on monday we'll ask him where his notes are for the special prosecutor. you know, this is -- >> happy new year, helen. >> tough all the way through. by the time i was in the white house covering president bush, she became a columnist, more opinionated, courted controversy as well. in a statement yesterday, president obama said in part that it wasn't just helen's long tenure as a journalist that made her the dean of the white house press corps, but her, quote, her fierce defense of holding our leaders to account. amen. helen thomas was 92 years old. and that is all for today. we'll be back next week.

if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." very good afternoon to you. i'm in for craig melvin on this sunday. here's what's happening right now. he did not walk to the podium for an impromptu address to the nation. he was pushed to that podium. >> he walked to the podium. he wasn't pushed to the podium. >> new reaction to the president's unscripted comments on race relations on friday. what role will the president play going forward. plus, detroit's decline, days after the biggest municipal bankruptcy in u.s. history, where it could go now. and preparing for the pope. today's security and celebrations ahead of the