all right. earlier in the the show we wanted you your most creative tweets on the self-y. eric shultz, i think we have as many responses as we have ever had to a caption contest. what do you got? >> mark says, more like he ral do. and anyone want to open up my vault? i don't know what he means by vault. >> the capone thing? >> that's it? >> take it away. >> it's a good thing lib rach chi deny have a smart phone. "morning joe" starts right now.

♪ good morning. it's monday, july 22nd. welcome to "morning joe." with us onset we have political professor former democratic congressman harold ford jr. and in washington, columnist and associate editor of the "washington post" eugene robinson. and chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of andrea mitchell reports, andrea mitchell. a lot going on in the foreign policy world this week. we're going to get to unbelievable reaction to the president's speech on race over the weekend. >> that reaction has been unbelievable. it's been insensitive. it's been over the top from so

many people. so look forward to talking about that. >> we're not talking about you, eugene, which is fascinating. we lost helen thomas over the weekend. we'll back at her life as well. and first, we want to go to london where the duchess of cambridge has been admitted. >> that's big news, but how was your weekend? let's first examine the important thing. did you take care of yourself or did you run 8,000 miles in 105 degree weather? >> i might have run a little bit. i might have gotten a little heatstro heatstroke. >> you're not well. when it's 105, you can't run that many miles. >> did you really get heatstroke? >> i did. >> you need to relax why do you do that to yourself? willie and i wanted to run ten

miles this weekend, but you know what, little voice inside our heads said, no, just stay -- i don't know what yours said. mine said have another drink and watch the british open. >> it was a matter of safety to stay in front of the couch. >> heck of a run. >> safety first. speaking of britain -- >> is that the transition now to the top news of the morning? we'll go live to london. this morning palace officials confirm that she is indeed in the early stages of labor. joining us now outside the hospital in london, jim with the latest. >> reporter: hi, mika. we can report finally that the long wait is almost over.

now around five hours ago, when some photographers here tweeted that they had seen a convoy of vehicles including range rovers, but no ambulance, pulling not into this area but around the side entrance, very safe, of this hospital. then shortly after that, the palace released a very short official confirmation saying only that the duchess of cambridge had been admitted in the early stages of labor and e she arrived by car. since then a palace spokesman unnamed said unofficially that all is proceeding normally. but it's very unlikely that there will be any further updates until we see that palace official walking out of that door of the maternity wing ca y

carrying a birth certificate really and will bring the birth certificate by car, about two and a half miles from here to buckingham palace and will place it on the very same easel that announced prince william's birth 31 years ago for all to see. we're not there yet. there could be more substantial waiting before we know more. about this future king or queen of great britain. >> we'll be waiting to hear from you about that. let's go to eugene robinson. talk a little bit about this baby's place in history. >> it is momentous. the birth of an heir to the throne is always momentous. the duchess's job as wife of a presumptive heir to the throne is to give birth to an heir and a spare. so her work is not done because

they are supposed to have another one as well. i guess i would quote churchill saying she's now in labor so this is not the end, it's the beginning of the end but perhaps the end of the beginning. and what's going to begin, i think, and jim can correct me if i'm wrong, but i think i'm right. hours and hours of breathless speculation based on absolutely no news. i assume they have the place sealed, is that right? >> joe, take it. >> jim, we're in a stage of just endless speculation with absolutely no information as to the exact details because the entire place is sealed. >> reporter: that's correct. we will not get anymore information that we can report with absolute certainty until,

again, that gentleman walks through that door and carries that medical certificate, which is ioned by all the attendant doctors with basic information that you'd see on a birth certificate. gender, name, perhaps color of hair and eyes. not more information than that. there will be following the placement of that certificate on easel, the press is expected to get from buckingham palace an official statement. the last time this happened with the births of william and harry, there was a bit more information. interestingly, the certificate read that william had been crying heartily so we were all rushing at the time to report that because it was news. but you're right, it has been all about speculation for the past certainly since july 13th when the initial due date was believed to have been passed and

that slid to the right to july 19th. that's two or three days old. it's all been about who you know inside the bubble. and even those people have been scratch i scratching their heads with contradictory information. back to you. >> you know, jim, we're talking about what happened 31 years ago. it's pretty remarkable the changes obviously in the royalty over the past 31 years. the question that some royal watchers were talking about over this past weekend is whether people across great britain and the world will respond in the same way with as much excitement as they did to princess dianna's two boys being born and the conclusion from those in britain was it's skeptics, royal skeptics seem to be that, yes, there would be because of the job the two boys have done.

charles has never been a sympathetic figure with the british people. the queen, of course, beloved but removed. but dianna really brought the royal family into the mainstream of british life again. and these two boys, obviously, have had a great impact too. do you think that we will see the sort of excitement we saw 31 years ago when william was born? >> reporter: i totally think that's the case. i think there was a very bad patch that the royal family went through for a number of years, particularly in the '90s and into the 2000s. but as those two boys came of age, it has changed remarkably. especially with kate coming on. kate seems to be for the royal watchers the perfect fit for this whole rejoouf nation of the royal family in great britain. they were getting a very bad

rap. that's one reason why all this spectacle now and the kind of theater we're going to see is so symbolic of a continuation of dianna's legacy. she gave birth to william and harry at this same hospital. the easel is the same used to announce the birth. these symbols have extreme importance. i think that's going to certainly continue with the reaction of great britain to the announcements once that birth takes place. >> jim maceda on baby watch. >> as anyone who has been with someone in labor, she may have had the baby three or four hours ago, she may have it tomorrow. e we just don't know. people have been asking where is joe over the last few days and weeks. now it's been told he's in churchill's war room. he's been staked out.

he has the best position in london. he will be ready when the baby comes. >> you know, it is important to me. it certainly is. you remember what happened right before miley cyrus's last cd came out. i was in an indisclosed location. i was right by the studio. nobody knew it. the cd hit. boom. >> and you were there. >> he's where history happens. it's amazing. >> why is that? why do you think that is? >> is it because you care a little too much. >> bin go. i don't care a little too much. i care way too much. i am here. we are in churchill's war room and we'll be ready on location and ready o go when it hits. >> joe, do you also care that heirs to the british throne are now like stacked up like planes

circling over heathrow. you have charles waiting and william waiting and now you'll have the new baby waiting. and queen elizabeth shows no signs of flag iging. she's going to keep going and going. >> the queen is not going to step down. there was some talk quite some time ago she was going to step down for charles, but charles was behaving so badly. and there were reports of him wanting to be hygiene products and just a lot of really bad things going on. and the queen said, i'm not going anywhere. it really has. charles' sons really have in a serious sense -- and it's serious for the people of great britain because as the sex pistols said, they are big money. and since dianna and william and harry, the interest in royalty has exploded all that much more.

with everybody except for the person to my right, mika, who doesn't seem to give a damn. the royal family generates close to $500 million pounds a year in tourism. that's just spending money for you when you go to the south of france. >> i love the way you twist things. having said i think this is a story about history and economy and we were debating where to put this story in the show, which i thought we should cover it. but for someone who was on the fence, i will move on to the next story. >> i actually said i didn't think we should do it, but go ahead. if you want to air our e editorial dirty laundry, go ahead. president obama spoke ab the george zimmerman trial. he reflected on the case in deeply personal terms.

take a look. >> when trayvon martin was first shot, i said that this could have been my son. another way of saying that is trayvon martin could have been me 35 years ago. and when you think about why in the african-american community at least there's a lot of pain around what happened here, i think it's important to recognize that the african-american community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that dun go away. i don't want us to lose sight that things are getting better. each successive generation seems to be making progress in

changing attitudes when it comes to race. doesn't mean we're in a post racial society. doesn't mean that racism is eliminated. but you know when i talk to malia and sasha, and i listen to their friends and see them interact, they are better than we are. they are better than we were on these issues. and that's true in every community that i have visited all across the country. >> there was a lot of reaction, j joe, to this moment on friday including an incredible debate on "meet the press" saying the president was pushed to the podium and he was late. a piece saying he's the wrong person to lead the discussion on race. but first, i don't know what to make of this. sean hannity lashed out for

comparing himself to trayvon martin. >> the politician who is quick to stick his nose in all of this first, the police acted stupidly. if i had a son, he would look like trayvon martin. trayvon could have been me 35 years ago. this is a particularly helpful comment. is that the president admitting that because he was part of the gang and spoked pot and did a little blow, i'm not sure how to interpret that because we know trayvon martin was smoking pot that night. >> so eugene, there are things to say after what the president said on friday in debate and they are fascinating discussions. i don't even know where to put that. that's extreme and wrong, i think. >> i think that's extremely wrong too. i wrote a column saying the president was basically wasting his breath when he tried to

speak about race because the comments didn't penetrate. they didn't communicate what he was try iing to communicate. i said he's the wrong person to do this. so of course, he comes out a few hours later and proves me completely wrong. i thought it was an exceptional speech that he gave off the cuff. obviously, something he had been thinking about doing. i thought he did really effectively on friday. and notwithstanding the reaction of sean hannity and others of his ilk, i think it's had an extraordinary impact and got people talking about racial issues in a constructive way. so i join the long list of people who have said or written that barack obama can't do something and sat and watched him do it it. >> i think what you touched upon

with your column is he might be in a difficult position for a number of reasons. having said that, the other reaction that e we showed shows that we still have a long way to go. maybe we need to be having this discussion on an ongoing basis if we're going to have extreme reactions like the one we just saw. >> sean hanna itty has been a critic of the president so it's hard to take his criticism in the most serious of ways. you have to minus out some of those. overall, i thought the remarks were ones that i could relate to. you talk about race and where we go, it's unclear where we go from here after his remarks. there's no doubt there's a set of experiences that are shaping the way a lot of americans feel about this, about the trayvon martin decision. morally unacceptable for many people. but there are a number of other issues that you have a black on

black crime issue that we have to confront in a different way. this is a serious issue. you have black unemployment rates at amongst its highest levels. you have black home oownership levels at its lowest rates. you have a number of barometers that have to be a concern. when you find communities that are working where households are intact, where parents are installing in kids that education is critical. you have a different set of outcomes. the president's remarks was the most important component. we need to have a conversation about opportunities provided to young black men. they were focusing on black men and opportunities. i'm hopeful that's what comes out of this conversation. perhaps a greater focus and a greater focus on results for how we address these challenges facing black men across the country. >> so many different issues came out of this. the issue of profiling, the stop

and frisk program that's controversial here in new york. but also just the support for the family given the fact that this young man who has been lost has now got his place in history as we develop as a country pertaining to race. >> support for the family has been inspiring. it certainly happened this past weekend too. it's important to remember that's occurring amidst racially intolerant comments across the political spectrum. we commented on "the washington post" describing how a black man wearing a hoodie is a uniform of crime. i still am flum muxed by that. and then quote, to get over it. i don't know how many e read it it. they quoted martin lieutenauthe

suggesting black people are morally inferior. you talk about taking reads and taking them out of context and using martin luther king's words 50 years later to justify the killing of a young black man walking unarmed through a suburban neighborhood, it's proverse. and elsewhere for a variety of reasons that trayvon had it coming. it seems we keep hearing that trayvon had it coming because he had pot in his system. i keep hearing this from people like sean hannity and others on the right. really? is that the new standard? would we like to go across college campuses in america and tell all white boys that if they have marijuana in their system then they are fair game? or that if they are walking through the neighborhood and they act in an untoward way towards somebody chasing them through a neighborhood?

this is whatnot only the right, but some in the middle are suggesting is the defense. it's society's fault. we're turning that around. i know gene. and others will remember middle class whites were angry when liberal politicians would say it's society's fault. well, that's what's happening now in reverse. they are bigger societal issues. you know black men wearing hoodies, they all commit crimes. that's richard cohen's argument. so he had it coming to him. it's straight out of madness. i hear he had marijuana in his system. you have seen reefer madness. really? really? in 2013, sean, come on. whatever excuse there is to say this young black man had it coming to him, that is the

defense because there is no defense for shooting down a young black man in a middle class neighborhood with skit ls. this entire spectacle is depressing and it's giving the parents and loved ones of african-american children even more of a reason to be concerned and go out on weekends and peacefully march. and the the vultures are going to continue to circulate around this body. and make no mistake, they are and continue to try to destroy his reputation for doing nothing more than walking through a neighborhood. it's making all of this -- it's making it it all too evident that too many people in the media and politicians are calculating and callous in their commentary. andrea mitchell, it's nothing short of depressing. >> when we think about this, we

now have a new standard. when the president came out, he had clearly thought this through. it had been something he discussed with his wife, with his children. it's something he's lived his whole life. he did two things. he taught white people in america, those who were unaware, what it's like to be a black male. so the teaching moment was also to hold up a mirror, to say to african-americans, i hear you, i understand, i am the moral leader of this country and let's talk about race and let's talk about these laws. he was very careful not to cross the line where anyone could have said he was trying to influence the decisions on the trayvon martin case and george zimmerman's verdict. but what he did say very importantly was that i understand this. when he said that trayvon martin was me 35 years ago, he was relating and personalizing the

vi victim and making trayvon martin, again, a person because as we knew from one juror and that reflecked the mood in the jury room, those six white women did not understand, did not empathize with him as a person. she talked about george and what a nice person he was. but trayvon martin didn't have flesh and blood. that's what the president did and he also told white people what it's like to walk into that department store and walk down the street and hear the cars being locked. that was a very important lesson. that will never go away. >> gene robinson, one of the things that happens after tragedy like this, we say in the country we want to have a "controversy" about x. now it's a conversation about race. i'm not sure we actually ever have a constructive national conversation because both sides run to their battle stations and it becomes a battle rather than

a conversation. in an ideal world, what would you like to hear that conversation sound like today? >> well, ideally it would sound like the president's remarks. it would not sound like sean hannity's marks. we would take off from where president obama took us on friday and go into depth. but willie, in the real world, this is the conversation. this is the national conversation about race. this is why we have it. we don't all kind of gather at public libraries on a given day and work through an agenda. something happens and we react to it and people overreact and react too strongly and e we fight about it for awhile and we argue and it seems like we're not getting anywhere. sometimes we actually are. sometimes we make progress. and if you look back at our history as president obama reminded us, look at how far we

have come. it hasn't been easy. it won't be easy getting the rest of the way because we certainly have a ways to go. one of the things we need to work on is not just a e question of how black men are seen in society but how black men are doing in the society. and it's an issue mayor bloomberg has worked on. the "washington post" did a project about black men. we can talk about that, but we tend to do it in a crisis mode and that's just who we are. >> we're talking about how black men are doing in society this past week. it seems to me that the op-eds that you read over and over again, whether it's in your paper or the "wall street journal" or other papers say black men aren't doing well. crime levels are high. then there's this unexplained leap to justify george zimmerman's actions of walking

through a suburban neighborhood armed chasing down a young black man, being told by a dispatcher to get away, and him continuing to chase down a young black men. i piend it so ironic that we were enraged in the '60s and '70s when politicians would try to generalize. it's society's fault so society needs to give african-americans who are committing crimes a free pass. now it's the opposite. it seems, and what's depressing is, this isn't confined to the far right talk show radio hosts. sean hannity has been ginning this up so badly that michael savage, michael savage has been saying that he's been irresponsible and that he's using race to gin up his ratings in a way that's bad for america. that's how extreme sean hannity's position has been.

that's where we find ourselves today in 2013 that now young african-american males are presumed guilty because of larger societal trends. we have turned this on its ear. now we're being told, we're reading in "the washington post" and "wall street journal" that black men are presumed guilty if they are wearing the wrong things. >> that's not acceptable. that's outrageous really. trayvon martin could have been either of my sons walking wearing a hoodie, walking with skittles in a middle class neighborhood. and that's the way a lot of us african-americans have reacted. it could have been my sons, it could have been me. the sean hannitys of the world, it's a crazy view. if you're going to say black men are fair game, actually there's a black man who is president of

the united states. there are black men who are doing extraordinarily well in this society who have taken huge leadership roles in this society including the attorney general who is going to ultimately decide whether or not federal charges are filed against george zimmerman. what this whole discussion hasn't taken into account is what's happened within the african-american community, the extraordinary economic and social progress that many people have made into the middle class and beyond. and the group that's been left behind that we all need to focus some attention and efforts on. >> interesting. think about it, harold. >> one of the things i've heard said. as a young black male, when a cop stops you to be responsive, to look them in the eye and answer crisply. one of the most fascinating things, joe just touched on it

it. george zimmerman was told by the police to stop. we are now rewarding people, it seems in the eyes of a lot of black americans, for this guy not stopping. when you're a young black male saying stop, you generally stop. here you have a fellow, and everyone has a story like this. it's just -- so many saspects o the case. >> the nra suggests all it takes to stop a bad man with a gun is a good man with a gun. if trayvon martin had a gun and zimmerman was chasing him through the neighborhood, the nra's position would be trayvon could have shot zimmerman dead and he could have walked free. we know it wouldn't have happened that way, but using their logic, that could have happened. but mika, we have to go to break. one of the most troubling things for me, all the african-american parents who all said what gene

said. i always have the talk with with my son. the police comes up from behind at night, you turn on lights and keep your hands on the dash board and you don't make any sudden moves. i think as gene said, son, it's a matter of life and death. that's the talk. >> we have to look at economic opportunity and our policing out of all of this as well. coming up, republican senator pat toomey of pennsylvania joins us. also we'll talk to david mara nous about the president's remarks. you're watching "morning joe." "i'm part of an american success story," "that starts with one of the world's most advanced distribution systems," "and one of the most efficient trucking networks," "with safe, experienced drivers."

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at 35 past the hour on this

monday morning. from john f. kennedy through president obama, there was one constant in the press core. helen thomas, the pioneering journalist who broke all sorts of barriers died on saturday at her home in washington. andrea, she was a friend of yours. >> she was a mentor more than anything else. she was a friend, but she was a friend who every young woman who came into the press core, i have to tell you for all those years, she was the first person in no matter how early i came in for "the today show" or morning tv, helen was always there. she was a constant. >> ms. thomas has the first question. >> our policy of not bombing north vietnam may be undergoing change. what's our policy? >> for more than a half a century, she was the first lady of the white house press corps. thomas landed a job with united press international, a pioneer woman in a man's profession not afraid of asking pointed

questions. >> who was to blame? >> her break came covering jfk, closing press conferences with her trademark, thank you, mr. president. >> i saw kennedy was really in a bind trying to answer a question. he went on and on trying to find an answer. i got up and said -- thank you, mr. president. >> thank you, helen. >> she was named a bureau chief. >> for the first time in history that a woman has been selected for that high post. i congratulate you. >> reporter: in 1971 she was married. >> i know that nancy upstairs would die. she's watching on television, but i didn't call on you in that pretty red dress. >> thomas had strong opinions. >> clinton had suffered a lot on the campaign trail. >> reporter: in later years she became even more outspoken. >> your decision to invade iraq

has become thousands of americans. >> i didn't want war. to assume i wanted war is just flat wrong, helen. in all due respect. >> reporter: she drew criticism for taking sides on the israeli conflict, butly bithen she was already a legend. >> what do you want to have said about you in your time covering the white house? >> that she asked good questions and she asked why. >> in the end, helen was controversial. the last few years of her life, she had strong opinions. she was accused of being anti-semitic. but that did not take away anything, i think, from covering ten presidents over 50 years. she understood that in a democracy, it's important to ask tough questions and hold leaders to account. that's something she did every single day. >> what an incredible legacy for women and journalism.

people ask me who is your role model, that would be one of them. andrea, thank you so much. coming up next in sports, at one point in his career some viewed phil mickelson as a choker. five majors later, his caddie said it was the best round he ever saw him play. that's next in sports. [ dad ] so i walked into that dealer's office and you know what i walked out with? [ slurps ] [ dad ] a new passat. [ dad ] 0% apr. 60 months. done and done. [ dad ] in that driveway is a german-engineered piece of awesome. that i got for 0% apr. good one, dad. thank you, dalton. [ male announcer ] it's the car you won't stop talking about. ever. hurry in to the volkswagen best. thing. ever. event.

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phil mickelson adding another trophy to his trophy case. this one from the british open. >> and phil mickelson with a sunday to remember at the open championship. >> phil mickelson's first open championship. he won it yesterday. that's now his fifth major to go along with some masters tours. it was the best round he's ever played and that's saying

something. >> i was getting ready for today and i thought i need to bring my a game today. i need to show up and play some of my best golf. and i did. i played some of the best golf of my career. it feels amazing to have this championship. >> phil shot an outrageous 66 yesterday. many of the other players didn't shoot below 70. >> the last 11 pairings, he had 26 putts in 18 holes. >> not for most of us. >> tiger finished five strokes back at 2 over. he was two back coming into sunday so it's been more than five years since he won a major. >> over the last six majors, he's been plus 23 in rounds three and four. i wish him the best, but falling apart on the weekends. >> five majors now. up next, steve cohen of

tennessee joins us on the heels of a public paternity test. what he's saying about the model who he thought was his daughter. you're watching "morning joe." want to save on electricity? don't use it. live like they did long ago. or just turn off the lights when you leave a room. you can conserve energy wisely. the more you know.

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just saw you on tv. in response, congressman cohen said nice to know you're watching. happy valentine's, beautiful girl. reporters started asking questions about their relationship and cohen responded saying the young woman was his daughter. according to cohen, about four months later in june, he discovered through a dna test much to his surprise that he was not the father and here with us now, congressman representative steve cohen. there were a lot of different reactions to the story. a lot of people thinking, oh, what's going on here. it made you feel like perhaps people were insinuating you were having a tawdry romance with this woman. >> total falsehood. y'all had mike allen on friday that told a story that he could have said that eli manning could have played for the charlotte

w hornets and would have been just as correct. this was as false. her mother told me i was her father back in 2010. she told her a year earlier. so it wasn't an effort to contact me and get e me. involved. they just. ed the truth known. she told him in case she passed first that he would know if victoria needed any body parts who would be right. she thinks i'm the father now. >> let me back up for a second and talk about what happened on friday. i think technically words might not have been incorrect, but the inty nations were not correct. take us through this though. because you thought this young woman was your daughter for how long. >> about three and a half years before the test disproved it it. >> who did the dna tests and why? >> i think john brink wanted a

dna test after he saw it on television because he wanted to know the truth. then the mother didn't believe the test, nor did the daughter. so they asked me to do another test. i agreed to do it it because victoria said it was good for her mental health. i did the test for her. when it came out i wasn't the father, i was total think floored. >> let's put the tweet in context. how long did you think you were her father? >> at a that time, three years. >> so when you were twooeting her, people misunderstood it as some sort of, whatever. >> they got -- i was thrilled she was watching the state of the union. she's been raised in texas and her main issues are louis vuitton and expensive clothes and fun and going to see her

boyfriend play softball. i was just happy she was learning about government. so i was thrilled and i just instantaneously responded, glad you're watching. it was valentine's the next day. i loved her. i love her now. everybody parses my words. i loved her, but now she's gone. that's not true. and on tv, she tried to say, steve cohen is not my father, not my biological father. they edited it it u. she was saying we still have a relationship and she sent me a beautiful father's day card. it said you will always be my father in many ways. we had a bond. and these people making these salacious -- it's difficult for her, it's plain wrong. i need to get back to doing important work of trying to cure these problems concerning race. i passed the resolution to

apologize for slavery some years ago. it should have been a major dialogue. i thought president clinton would be the focus of it. i have a bill i'm looking at a compassionate release program on prisoners. we have lots of prisoners that ought to be released from prison. the president needs to get the bush appointee who runs that office out who was giving false information. there are a bunch of people in there for drug crimes who do not belong in prison. we have changed. we have people in jail but in an old policy that's been changed. >> i have to bring up something too. i think it's absolutely fair you come on the show and set your story straight. it wasn't our story, but it's our audience. as i talked on friday, we said you should come on. you tweeted again. you have to talk to me about this twitter thing and you. at some point, maybe it's not

worth it it. you tweeted that an african-american man told you that you're black because of this paternity test. >> it wasn't because of the paternity test. >> why are you tweeting? >> i got you that. but it was fun. i had a tough night. i drive an '86 kad day. a lot of african-americans drive old cars. cadillacs, it dies, twice in two weeks. have no luck at all. i'm having no luck. we ditch the car. i come out and tell him the story. i said i have had a tough week. daughter, great. find out it's not daughter, bliss. say something nice to a reporter, get attacked. it's been hell. he goes, man, you're black. i took it as a compliment. i hear it in memphis all the time. they say you're one of us.

they come up in. the basketball line going to the game. all the business of the corporation, the black guys that sell the cars grab me around the chest and pull me up and said you can't have him, he's ours. it's a wonderful thing. district nine is a microcosm of how america can work. blacks can and do embrace me as their congressperson. that's what america needs to do in all cases. white people in some areas have not accepted barack obama yet. that's part of the race dialogue we need to have. but beyond dialogue, there needs to be action. and the action is seeing the prison policies don't operate. it's a policy on drug charges. blacks are four times as likely to be arrested for marijuana. mayor bloomberg's stop and frisk, that's racial. >> we're doing a segment on that this morning. >> i told him it's wrong and needs to stop.

and i tried to get anthony weiner and the whole new york delegation to understand it. passed out papers on the floor and they didn't seem to care. anthony fgs was dismissive. you don't represent new york. there's lots of problems. some could be dealt with with legislation. we need to have strong programs of mental health. there's great problems with child baring and child rearing. the government can help. we don't do enough. all these sequester cuts shs they hit the black family first. >> congressman, thank you very much for coming on the show to straighten the story out. i would say from your history of deleting tweets and this it misunderstanding, let's keep it to the real conversation and not twitter, fair enough? >> i just want to make clear. the press has made this a story. this is a personal tragedy that should be allowed for me and victoria to deal with

independe independently. she's hiding out. i want to get back to legislating. i have a bill on fisa. we need to deal with it. this stuff should be left private. the man on friday was in fantasy land. >> it was the intonation and keep it off twitter and we won't cover it. i'm just going to say off history of deleting tweets. so there was some stuff put out there. it was misunderstood. i'm not making excuses. i appreciate you coming here and explaining it. how is that? >> thank you. nice to be with you. up next, the editor in chief of buzz feed, ben smith, joins us. also david maraniss. "morning joe" back in a moment. . i love bread. i'm human! and the weight watchers 360 program lets me be. the reason i'm still in this body feelin' so good isn't because i never go out and enjoy

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live pictures flying over london as the world focuses on what's happening at st. mary's hospital. we have a baby on the way. welcome back to "morning joe." harold ford jr. with us. joining the table editor in chief ben smith. and associate editor of "the washington post" and author of "barack obama the story" david maraniss. we're going to begin with the top story out of london. the duchess of cambridge has been admitted to the hospital. she's apparently in early stages of labor.

>> willie is very excited about this story. he's going to tell us about it right now. willie, what is it about it it exactly that not only keeps you and your family tied to the tv set all weekend, you have had your tea and your crumb pets and little bonbons. and your royal robe that has the crest of the windsor family. i have no idea how you get that on your silk robe. what is it that makes americans so in love with these crazy royals? >> as god as my witness as mika started to read that introduction, i hope they don't call on me because i can't think of anything to say. that doesn't happen a lot on this show, but it was that feeling from high school. it's exciting. this baby will be the king or queen some day.

have control over military and 84 countries in the kingdom. so this will be an important person in the world some day. how is that? >> could you sound like you care a little more and be excited? and guessing, is it a boy or girl? >> the london odds makers are betting on the names and all that stuff. >> there actually are a couple reasons why we should be watching this and taking a look. especially at the gender issue which is fascinating because this baby is in line whether it's a boy or a girl. joining us now is martin bah sheer, who is actually qualified to talk about this. come on now. >> what do you want to know? >> i want to know about the gender issues. the baby's place in history and i want to know about the economic factors here. >> let's talk about with gender issue. the prime minister announced that he had approached all the commonwealth nations and they had all agreed that the rules

concerning the succession should be changed. if it's a girl, she will be third in line to the throne and that's great. it's also worth remembering that until 1948 home secretaries were also present in the delivery sweet when a royal baby was born. can you believe that? in fact, it only ceased in 1948 when prince charles was born. before that her majesty the queen when she was born the home secretary, i think his name was sir william hix was present. it's also interesting the way things have changed when prince charles was being born. his father was playing squash. we know that prince william is actually by princess katherine's side. so there are differences.

>> it does seem like women are admitted to the club after it stops mattering. i mean, now in 70 years maybe they will still be a monarchy. >> ben smith! >> i think it still matters. looking at the pictures and listening to martin bah sheer talking about how home secretaries used to be in the delivery room. i think when you were born, didn't your father from bert lance in there? >> it was definitely not that. >> can i clarify one thing? >> for everybody under 80 years old, they might not remember bert. >> just to put this in a fan it's aic way -- fantastic way.

winning a test series in australia, the english cricket team won against australians. and now we have a royal baby. it's been a spectacular year for britain from sport to god willing the safe arrival of a b baby. >> that's nice. >> and most excitingly, you have wayne rooney coming from the north down to chelsea. it's going to be a big year for you. >> i'm wearing my chelsea wristband. i'm am bif lent about wayne rooney. his performances are actually in decline. i don't think he's worth 13 million pounds, which is the figure people are talking about. i think the problem we have is that we currently have a striker that we bought from another club. i believe it was liverpool. we ended up paying a lot for. >> we really didn't.

to have a chelsea fan club chat here. >> we know you did. >> it was a passing reference, which you grabbed. and you kept pulling that string. but any way, stay with us, martin. we want to talk about the finances of all this. we want to bring in somebody who mika and i remember and so many people watching this show remember listening to everything she had to say about princess dianna and her children. tina brown is on the phone. tina, dianna kicked and shoved and pushed around and despised by so many people in the royal family, but this is her revenge. she has saved the monarchy from the windsors themselves. and now once again, the whole world is watching and waiting for the birth of a royal baby because of the two boys that she helped raise. >> it's true. it's a great sweet revenge for

dianna. t the birth of a royal baby is a joyous time. williams was born in patriotic server because britain had just won the falkland islands war. a week before the birth, there was this outroar of excitement when the war was won. then along came william so it was a patriotic moment. now again, we have this amazing summer. there's also been the jubilee, which was a great royalty loving moment. it it does show despite willie geist, immensely lame salutation. >> i did my best. >> it does show the power of the royal brand as such a sustaining thing in the uk. it keeps on supplying national unity. we saw the jooubilee. the olympics was what the queen

did with james bond. there was a real sense that the royal family is as great as ever. it's a joyful thing a a time when the economy is still at 7.8% unemployment in the uk. and yet here we are with this joyful thing with lots and lots of street parties. everyone is going to be festive and popping corks. >> eugene robinson? >> i wanted to point out and good morning, tina. it's good to hear from you on this subject. and you mentioned the phrase, the royal brand. and i think we should acknowledge that's exactly what it is at this point. there was a time in the past when monarchs really did rule the waves. one was name named victoria. so women have been powerful as british monarchs.

but the house of windsor, it should be the house of something else and they rebranded themselves around the time of world war i to become the house of windsor because it was unseenly for the british royal family to have a german sir name. and that brand has been cultivated until now. it went through a bad patch in the '90s. it has recovered. we are talking about more a brand than an actual thing at this point. >> it has that great historic link that knits together the pedigree and traditions of england. those things are very exciting to reenforce to people. they are very encouraging and reassuring things to reenforce. it's amazing how great they are at showing their brand. when dianna married charles, the family was old and boring and crusty. along came dianna with her

youthfulness and she revived the brnd. we had a recent dip when she died when it was depressing aga again. then along comes william becoming such a superstar, such a relaxed, great-looking, dianna brought the great genes into the royal family. they were not the biggest pinups before she entered the fray. now you have these great-looking prince. she's the first nonroyal wife to give birth to an heir. this is a huge moment also. it's not just that this child will be king or queen. the mother for the first time is a commoner, which is a hugely different factor and a very modern factor in the way they keep providing the brand. >> joe? >> and of course, tina, i have been saying all morning quoting the sex pistols, the tourists are money. there was a time in the '90s that we all alluded to that the

tourists were turned off by prince charles talking about how he wanted to be a feminine hygiene product and the fighting back and forth. it got so ugly that it's almost hard to believe how quickly the royal family has recovered. . and again, the bottom line for britain, 500 million dollars in tourist money every year. >> kate has been flawless. that's also very interesting how the royal family learned from that dianna experience. they really learned that lesson hard about how not to treat the princess of wales in future. they had blown it with dianna. they hadn't given her any help or protection or any of the things she really needed. it was a result. it was a miserable situation for

her. aside from the personal aspect, it was an unsupported experience for her. they have gone out of their way, and william as well. she's going to be helped and supported and backed. you have to understand that she's as important as i am in terms of my life and they have. >> tina, you have a wire into the british subconscious here. if this is so uniting, 50%. it abolished. the big debate is whether they are going to get a bank holiday out of this or not. >> it's true. the queen is one of the most flaw es humans on the face of the earth. how many decades has this woman been perfect? while everybody around her has been cheesy, unfaithful, has been inappropriate. this woman has never slipped up on the job. and as a result, she's the most

adored icon around. she can do no wrong. she's even relaxing a bit doing the james bond stunt. it's a wonderful hay day of the queen. and prince phillip, they are just adored. and prince william is a bit of a rock star. all of it is going extremely well at the moment. >> tina brown, thank you very mu much. martin bah sheer, thank you as well. we'll be watch pg you at 4:00. willie, do you feel educated now? >> i do. i needed it and i feel better. >> joe, take it. david maraniss, you have written a book on barack obama. this past weekend, a lot of people have been talking and debating the president's words. i personally thought they were badly need ed. i thought he really struck the right tone. but not to nitpick too closely, but what did you think when you heard the president say "i could

have been trayvon 35 years ago" knowing that the president grew up in some of the most exclusive prep schools and colleges in the world? >> well, i thought about him at age 17. and even though he did go to an exclusive prep school, i don't think that was the key thing. in many ways, he was as complicated at age 17 as trayvon martin was. his looks, he was a black young man in a society where there were very few blacks. he had a bushy afro. he smoked dope and played hoops. there was things about obama that were parallel to trayvon martin. and of course, the main thing is the color of his skin. and the point of his speech, i thought, was simply pointing that out. it's the most obvious of all factors that every young black

man in america has endured those types of situations that place an historical context to the reaction of what happened with that trial. >> we have been talking ab over the past week with jeangene it doesn't matter your background. if you're at night driving in florida and you're an african-american male and a policeman pulls you over, you better put your hands on the dash board and not move quickly. or it's a matter of life and death. that, we are finding, more and more since trayvon to be something that connects so many african-american parents across america. >> it does. he also ended it it by saying he thought perhaps it was getting better with his daughters'

generation. but it is a fact of life that what struck me was that he was saying something that was apparent and obvious. but he was saying it as a black american. he's had a tendency to not try to differentiate in that sense and speak to the entire populous. and someone of mixed race and trying to cross all those boundaries. in this case, he was doing something somewhat different from what he's done in the past. >> eugene robinson, and as we can see here, this is a touch tone for so many different conversations pertain iing to re and even how the police look at race. at the same time, to your point and the point you were making in your column, it's a difficult balance for the president because he has to be careful to respect the decision that was made in court by six jurors who had a very narrow decision to

make, in a way. >> right. the president of the united states has to come out in support of the justice system of the united states and i think he did that. in the past, and in commenting on racial situations or incidents as in the henry lewis gates arrest, for example, on his own front porch. a couple other things, what the president has said, i think, has been fine, but it hasn't been taken in the right way. it's tended not to advance discussion. and this time i think it's different. this time his tone was different. he really went personal. he really talked about race. i think in a way that connects with people on a more personal level. and. it seems to be having more traction. i can only applaud him for that.

>> we're going to move on to other news. a top attorney says an office run by a political appointee of president obama helped the agency develop guidelines for reviewing tea party cases. the lawyer said that the chief counsel's office would review some of the first applications made by groups for political activity that would seem to contradict claims the scandal was confined to a cincinnati field office. and now "the wall street journal"'s peggy nu nan rights there. what landed was a bomb shell and which is why they are desperate to make the investigation go away. they know, as republicans do, that the chief counsel of the irs is one of two obama political appointees in the entire agency. this comes back as a story, it it goes on. >> it really does. ben, we have seen democrats trying to say, gee, liberal

groups were targeted and attacked. the hearings on thursday and friday, the inspector general's office says that was not the case. only if it were tea party organizations. that was kicked up to washington. and actually reviewed by the chief counsel, which i guess the big news is that's one of only two appointees of barack obama. so suddenly, this is so much different than what we first heard in that press conference with a planted question that this does go all the way up to one of two appointed white house members of the irs. >> yeah, it's a totally legitimate subject. because the irs is incredibly powerful and has been abused by presidents before. like we keep seeing accusations ahead of what e we actually know. we don't know what the counsel

was telling the direction is. i think it's probably worth waiting to find out. >> we don't know exactly, but we do know this. according to the testimony that they were told if it does not pertain to, quote, tea party groups or patriot groups, you don't have to kick that up. you guys handle that in cincinnati. if it involves patriot groups, that gets kicked up to washington and the chief counsel talks about it. it seems to me that in and of itself is problematic. >> well, if that's the entire outline of it, that sounds problematic. but i thought we knew, actually, i thought it had come out earlier about the chief counsel's involvement, such as it was. i don't think the question has been answered as to exactly what that involvement was. but you know, it's an investigation that will continue

and we'll see if it actually leads anywhere. i think there have been false promise in this investigation before. and there have been points which it's going to lead direct ly to the white house. i don't think we're anywhere near there. but let's see what happens. >> they were afraid the administration is touching tea party groups in some way. we better call the lawyers or whether this was being directed. >> and willie geist, you care deeply about the irs scandal. in fact, all weekend you and your family were talking about it around the table while you were cooking barbecue ribs. what's your take? >> well, actually, to me the most interesting thing is that the argument from the top of the irs is that this was confined to cincinnati. that those were rogue agents who went off the grid and did something that irs deplores. if you listen to the testimony

of late last week, they said they had to go up the chain to washington. that doesn't mean it it goes to the white house, but it means that the irs in washington, not just the cincinnati office, knew about this and was involved in some way. >> so willie, you do care! >> he's checked in, joe. >> our thanks to david maraniss. >> you're cutting willie off. he has more to tell uls. >> no, i'm good. i have to get back to the royal baby odds. i'm busy. >> he's on royal baby watch. david, thank you very much. and ben smith, thank you as well. up next, new york's balancing act between privacy and security. we'll discuss the stop and frisk policy with darius char knee and william bratton. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. "i'm part of an american success story,"

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26 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." a federal judge could rule as soon as this week on whether the nypd's controversial stop and frisk program is constitutional. many of the over 5 million new yorkers stopped, questioned and sometimes frisked by police have been unfairly targeted because of race. jim hoffa reported on the case during the trial in march. >> reporter: the lead attorney in the lawsuit against the nypd got right to the point in his opening arguments as to why he thinks it needs changes. >> it's race-based, which is prohibited by the constitution. it's constitutional because they don't have a reasonable basis to stop people. >> reporter: among the first to testify will be police officer adele palinko about his story.

>> we stopped kids walking pr school. we were stopping kids from going to the store. kids. >> things are no going to get any better. >> reporter: submitted as evidence in the trial will be audio tape that was first brought to us. you hear his supervisor demanding quota of one arrest and 20 stops per month. >>. you think 1 in 20 is breaking law, you're going to be doing a lot more. a lot more than that you think. >> reporter: but city attorneys in their opening arguments say officers are not forced to make stops but they have performance goals. they also argue that stops are driven by crime, not race, and that training, monitoring and regular audits ensure police stops are constitutional. >> i should point out that jim

is also my husband. joining us who repped the plaintiffs in this case is darius charney and former police commissioner and criminal justice analyst william bratton joins us on the set now. commissioner bratton, having seen it from the inside in three major cities, in light of the national conversation we're having about race now, can you see the dilemma that the program poses? >> first off, it's not a prog m program. it's the -- >> policy. >> it's a basic fundamental tool of american policing. you have new york's specific situation in terms of their practices. then you have practices in general in the country. >> look at the numbers. there's been a ramp up, has there not? if you look at how many people were stopped a few years ago versus ten years ago, it's in the hundreds of thousands now per year. and if you look at the racial

issues here, we have 86% of those stopped minorities. 88% didn't result in the arrest or summons. you have people saying they get sick to their stomach because it happens again and again and again. some see this as harassment or perhaps racism, no? >> i'm not speaking to the new york case that's before the federal judge. but stop and frisk it a basic tool of any police force. it has to have three elements. it has to be constitutional, it it has to be in the law, it it has to be consistent. you can't police it it differently in a minority neighborhood versus a white neighborhood. that's the fundamental challenges being made against the new york policies and procedures. effective policing and constitutional policing are not incompatible. my experience in los angeles, we improved race relations while

having various policing that embraced stop and frisk. it was done within the law and done respectfully and it was done consistently. >> joe, yesterday on "meet the press", it was an interesting and almost combative conversation. stop and frisk came up four or five times in the discussion about race and touched on was the trayvon martin case. >> it's controversial because there are a lot of people that think works. and commissioner bratton, that includes michael nutter who said if he had stop and frisk and those gun laws, crime would plummet. you wonder what would be happening in chicago if they had new york gun laws and stop and frisk. it does work, does it not? >> joe, every cop in america every day engages in stop and frisk. when they pull you over for a traffic violation, that's a stop, a question, and may result in a frisk if they ask you to come out of the car.

we need to understand what's being challenged in new york is the procedures, policies and practices of the new york city police department. this is not something unique to new york. this is like conducting this morning show would allowing you as an anchor to ask questions. >> except, sir, with all due respect, we have you here for a story. we don't just pick someone randomly and say i'm going to ask them some questions. so i do think it's different. >> so that's the challenge. but around the country what has been endorsed by the supreme court is the right of the police if they have reasonable suspicion, the ability to justify the stop. >> so darius, what are we missing here and what's being lost where we talk about reasonable suspicion? >> well, as former commissioner bratton mentioned, police officers have the right to make stops, but only if they have reasonable suspicion.

it has to be individualized. in other words, there has to be a reason to suspect the actual person that they are stopping. and i think what we found in new york, and i think the evidence that we put forward at trial showed is that in hundreds of thousands of cases each year, the police don't have the required level of suspicion and that they are stopping people arbitrarily. they are stopping them unjustifiably and we think in many cases they are stopping them -- >> what would be an example of unreasonable stop? something they are wearing? >> that could be one of the most common reasons police officers are giving, at least according to their own data is afertive movement. that's very vague. it means different things to different people. there are many situations where ordinary activities that all of us engage in every day, police officers are characterizing as

fertive movements. one of our plaintiffs who testified, mr. floyd himself, was stopped on the front steps of his apartment in the middle of the daytime trying to unlock his door with a e set of keys. i don't know anyone else at this table that would think that is a suspicious behavior. >> then it comes down to race ultimately? >> there are two questions. you have -- mayor bloomberg argues this is a reduction in crime to credit stop and prisk. how do you respond to that saying you want crime to come down? and commissioner, you have admitted some concerns. could those be addressed to resolve some of this? >> the first point is, yes, crime has definitely come down drastically in new york over the past two decades. the police department deserves some credit. the two things i would point out

is crime started going down under this gentleman. and back then, they weren't doing 600,000 stops a year. in 2002, there were only 97,000 recorded stops. and in 2002, there were actually less reported shootings than there were in 2011. in 2002 we had about 92,000 stops. in 2011 we had 700,000. for the mayor to say it's stop and frisk specifically, that's bringing crime down, there's no data to back that up. the police deserve credit for doing a lot of things right in this city over the past two decades. i don't think stop and frisk is one of them. >> what concerns do you have about stop and frisk and have they been addressed? >> the concern i would have after 40-some odd years in the business is how it's being portrayed in the moment. it's the racial profiling issue of the 21st century.

that the new york case has presented it in such a negative way it's the basic fundamental tool of what police do. the public needs to understand that going back to the 1820s, the creation of police shs the role is to prevent crime. one of the things that they are obliged to do is do it in a way that the public approves. there's a significant part of the population in new york not approving of the new york practices as it rels to stop and frisk. the challenge for our police and for government is to ensure that a stop and frisk continues because it has to, that it is done constitutionally in the law. and it's done respectfully. a lot of it has to do with how cops engage with citizens. particularly minority citizens with respect it's so central to their sense of self. this idea that a stop and frisk places a sign of disrespect. if it's compounded by the way

it's done in terms if it's done in an abusive manner. what i'm concerned about with the new york situation is it's coloring the larger tool that is so essential to effective policing. this is the only thing cutting down crime in. new york? not at all. if it's regulated by the federal government, is crime going to go up in new york? not at all. los angeles, we had crime go down every year. >> william bratton, thank you very much. darius charney, waiting on word for this case. thank you for being on the show this morning. coming up, senator pat toomey joins us. and walmart turns up the pressure on washington, d.c., after that city demands higher wages for workers. details on that showdown when "morning joe" comes right back.

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the mayor of washington, d.c., is considering whether to

veto an attempt by the city council to force big retailers, specifically walmart, to pay employees more than the minimum wage. walmart is pushing back threatening to cancel projects for up to six stores in the area. the living wage measure would require walmart to pay at least $12.50 an hour compared to the minimum of $8.25. the mayor lobbied hard to bring walmart to the city and is stuck between supporters of the measure who say walmart can easily afford it and opponents who fear the move will drive off much-needed jobs. joe, you agree or disagree with the concept? >> i disagree with the concept of actually singling out walmart and telling walmart what they are going to have to pay employees. walmart should be able to make their own decisions based on

their economic realities. you hear people saying they can afford to pay $12.50 an hour. maybe they can, maybe they can't. but that's their decision. but at the end of the day, this isn't a question -- and i saw somebody in the middle of this debate say this. this season a question of you're talking about $8.25 an hour versus $12.50. this is a case of this or zero an hour because walmart is going to move a lot of stores out. they are not going to expand across the region. they are big enough and powerful enough to go where they want to go. and i think the fact that the city council is going against the mayor's wishes and deciding to point a finger at walmart specifically and attack them is short sided. >> other big retailers as well. walmart is fighting back.

brian shaq man, how are their profits? >> the truth is their empire business model is based on low wage workers. they have a low margin business. they have over $100 billion a quarter in revenue. if they had to increase wages like that in all their businesses, it would pretty much wipe out their profits. >> so their business model is based o on people pais -- based on paying people a wage they can't live on. >> they have personal finances that said you couldn't live off mcdonald's wages unless you got a second job that paid you that much. the city council is saying you can't live off that wage and have a middle class life. it's their business. they should be able to run it it the way they want to. >> i have two concerns. >> the problem here is if you're going to raise a minimum wage for them, raise it for everybody.

but the washington city council heralded this case specifically targeting walmart. others may be impacted, but this is a walmart-specific bill that in effect they are going after them. that's why we're talking about walmart while "the new york times" is talking about walmart yesterday. this seems short sided. they are paying people that work for walmart what other companies consider them to be worth in the marketplace. >> i was just going to amplify that point. i don't like targeting businesses. one of the reasons i'm against tarpgting oil and gas industry, you're going to need to deal with everybody. washington has to deal with this just like every other city. if you don't want us coming to your town, we'll leave. and they have that option because of their size and scale. they also argued that the products they sell at walmart are more affordable for families up and down the income spectrum.

that's because of this business model. i hope walmart makes its way to washington and i hope they find a way over the next several years to address some of the income inequality issues. >> i think it's an interesting look at mayors across the country. making statements about our society whether it's here in new york and the way we -- our health, or in washington and the way people are paid and what minimum wage should or should not be. $8.25 an hour, that's a joke. come on. who disagrees with that? does anybody here at the table? >> no, but communities. those jobs. . >> the not only communities, there are a lot of young workers that not only want those jobs, but need those jobs. >> we'll take this up in a moment. new research shows why some men may be more generous than others and it turns out having a

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interesting story, could a baby daughter make your boss more generous? according to a "new york times" piece entitled "why men need women," a new study shows the mere presence of female family members, even infant daughters, can cause men to be more generous. joining us now from philadelphia is the author of that "new york times" article and professor of the wharton school at the university of pennsylvania, adam brant. he's the author of "give and take, a rep lucian nary approach to success." and joining us on set, cnbc

contributor, author of the book "finerman's rules, secrets i'd only tell my daughter about business and life." give us the bottom line with this article. literally daughters do what to i guess the male's sensitivity to the outside world? >> well, we don't really know. there's this amazing study that they did showing when ceos fathered a daughter, they actually paid their epplmployee more. speculation is when we have daughters we become a little bit more nurturing, a little bit more apathetic and we care about those around us. >> what's behind that? >> well, it's really hard to say. we need research to get to the bottom of this. i've experienced this myself as a dad, you know, when you have a daughter, you start to think about the world being a humane place. and you really want to make sure that you can sort of create the

best place possible. >> i guess the answer to that is when you have a son you don't? what do you make of this? >> i don't know. i was actually quite surprised to read this. >> she's cuter? >> you feel more -- it's counterintuitive. i would expect you'd feel more protective. which i think he brings it up it is counterintuitive and you would not be as generous, you would be more sort of i don't know hoarding. >> joe, you had two sob sons an then a daughter, ways the dhat' difference? >> i do understand. i think in general the more women you have around you, i think the -- i think it does make you more generous. i don't know. i have seen that, mika, in some cases. >> at the same type, ime, it se

like why do we need that, why do we need a woman around to tell us something so basic? i would appreciate having more women in business in top positions because it brings a lot of different sensitivities to the table but generosity, really? >> i have a question for adam. i was sort of wondering, have you seen any -- in your data, anything that shows women really wanting a bit of an alpha male who, you know, you talk in your article about the women around bill gates trying to push him to be more generous but nowhere in there is this sort of -- i think a lot of women like the alpha male and there's something attractive about that. >> i think it's a fascinating question. there's a really nice study by pat barclay showing women like alpha males in the short term but they tend not to want to marry them. what they're really looking for of course is somebody who's going to care about others. i think that maybe that alpha male is appealing for the

moment. >> if you want to give this issue a longer look, the article, why men need women, is in "the new york times." adam grant, thank you very much. karen finerman, we need to talk about your rules. yes, the ones that you teach your daughters. >> so mika, there's -- so alpha males have the short fuse, short life. they're like a, you know, a bug, they only last so long. >> here today, gone tomorrow. on tomorrow's show, former secretary -- >> i have got to become more sensitive. i'm working on it. >> former secretary of state madeleine albright joins us. also tom friedman. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. "i'm part of an american success story," "that starts with one of the world's most advanced distribution systems," "and one of the most efficient trucking networks," "with safe, experienced drivers."

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up next, all eyes on london this morning. live pictures here as the duchess of cambridge goes into labor. we're going to head out to london to see how the masses are reacting to the news and the president weighs in on the racial discussion surrounding the travelen martin case. we're going to hear eugene robinson's thoughts on the president's words next on "morning joe." with the fidelity american express credit card, every purchase earns you 2% cash back, which is deposited in your fidelity account. is that it? actually... there's no annual fee and no limits on rewards. and with the fidelity cash management account debit card, you get reimbursed for all atm fees. is that it? oh, this guy, too. turn more of the money you spend into money you invest. it's everyday reinvesting

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. you might want to wake up. as you take a life look at new york city. back with us on set, harold ford jr., brian shackman and david washington, eugene robinson and andrea mitchell. this morning, palace officials confirm that she is indeed in the early stages of labor so joining us now from outside st. mary's hospital in london, nbc correspondent jim maceda with the very latest. >> reporter: the long wait, it's not over, but it's beginning to end. we had initial signs that something was up, that something was moving, now, around five hours ago, when some photographers here tweeted that they'd seen a convey of vehicles including range rovers but no

ambulance pulling not into this area here but around the side entrance, very safe, of this hospital. then shortly after that, kensington palace which of course is where william and kate currently live released a very short off confirmation saying only that the duchess of cambridge had been admitted to st. mary's hospital in the early, and i repeat, early stages of labor, and that she arrived by car, no indication at all that there was any emergency. since then, a palace spokesman, unnamed, said unofficially that all is proceeding normally. but it's very unlikely now that they'll be any further updates until we see that palace official walking out of that door of the lindo maternernity g carrying a birth certificate really and will bring that birth certificate to buckingham

palace. and will place it in the forecourt on the very same easel that announced prince williams birth 30 years ago for all to see. we're not there yet, there could be more substantial waiting before we know more about this future king or queen. >> we'll be waiting to hear from you about that. >> yim, wear in a stage of just endless speculation with absolutely no information as to the exact details. because the entire place is hermetically sealed. >> that's correct, we will not get any more information that we could report with absolute certainty until, again, that gentleman walks through that door and carries that medical certificate, which is signed by all the attendant doctors, with just basic information that you would see on a birth certificate. gender, name, perhaps color of hair and eyes.

not more information than that. there will be following the placement of that certificate on the easel, the press is expected to get from buckingham palace an official statement. usually -- at least the last time this happened with the births of william and harry, there was a bit more information. interestingly, the certificate read that william had been crying heartily so we were all rushing at the time to report that because it was news it but you're right, it has been all about speculation for the past -- certainly since july 13th when the initial due date was believed to have been passed and that's led us right to july 19th, now a few days old. it's all about about who you know inside the bubble. and even those people have been scratching their heads with contradictory information. back to you. >> president obama spoke on friday about the george zimmerman trial during a

surprise appearance at the white house briefing room. he reflected on the case in deeply personal terms. take a look. >> when trayvon martin was first shot, i said that this could have been my son. another way of saying that is trayvon martin could have been me 35 years ago. and when you think about why in the african-american community at least there's a lot of pain around what happened here, i think it's important to recognize that the african-american community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn't go away. i don't want us to lose sight that things are getting better.

each successive generation seems to be making progress in changing attitudes when it comes to race. doesn't mean we're in a post-racial society. doesn't mean that racism is eliminated. but, you know, when i talk to malia and sasha, and i listen to their friends and i see them interact, they're better than we are. they're better than we were on these issues. that's true in every community that i visited all across the country. >> there was a lot of reaction, joe, to this moment on friday, including an incredible debate on "meet the press" where tavis smiley said the president was pushed to the podium and he was egene robinson has a piece saying he's the wrong person, the president is, to lead the discussion on race. sean hannity lashed out at

president obama for comparing himself to trayvon martin. take a look. >> politician who is, you know, who's quick to stick his nose into all this first, you know, the police acted stupidly. if i had a son, he'd look like trayvon, you know, president said trayvon could have been me 35 years ago. this isn't a particularly helpful comment. is the president admitting i guess because he was part gang, he smoked pot, he did a little blow? i'm not sure how to interpret that. we know trayvon had been speaking pot that night. i don't know what that means. >> there are things to say after what the president said on friday and debate and they're fascinating discussions. i don't even know where to put that. that's extreme and wrong i think. >> i think that's extremely wrong too. you know, on thursday i wrote a

column for the friday paper saying the president was basically wasting his breath when he tried to speak about race and because the comments didn't penetrate, they didn't communicate what he was trying to communicate. i said, he's the wrong person to do this. and so of course he compaes out few hours later and proves me completely wrong. i thought it was an exceptional speech that he gave off the cuff. obviously, something he had been thinking about doing. i thought he did really effectively on friday. and, you know, notwithstanding the reaction of sean hannity and others of his ilk. i think it's had an extraordinary impact and got people talking about racial issues in a constructive way. so, you know, i joined a long list of peep who have said or written that barack obama can't

do something and then sat and watched him do it. >> i think, eugene, what you touched upon with your column is he might be actually in a difficult position for a number of reasons. having said that, other reaction that we showed, harold, shows that we still have a long way to go and maybe we need to be having this discussion on a more ongoing basis if we're going to have extreme reactions like the one we just saw. >> we, sean hannity's been a critic of the president and it's hard to take his criticism in the most serious of ways so put that aside because i think you have to minus out some of those. overall, i thought the president's remarks were ones that i could relate to. you talk about race and where we go, it's unclear where we go from here after his remarks. there's no doubt, there's a set of experiences that are shaping the way a lot of americans, particularly black americans, feel about this, about the trayvon martin decision.

morally unacceptable for a number of people. there's a number of issues -- there's no doubt you have a black on black crime in this country you have to confront in a very different way. this is a serious issue. you have black unemployment rates among est its highest levelings. a number of barometers that would have to be of concern. i'm a believer when you find communities where people are working, where households are intact, that you have a different set of outcomes. there's no doubt the president's remarks about how young black men are treated is the most important component of what he said. an initiative he was launching here in new york to focus on black men, particularly young black men, and the opportunities there. so i'm hopeful that's what comes out of this conversation. perhaps a greater focus. and a greater focus for results

on how we address these challenges. >> so many different issues, joe, came out of this. the issue of profiling. the stop and frisk program which is controversial here in new york. but also just the support for the family. given the fact they young man who has been lost has now got his place in history as we develop as a country pertaining to race. >> well, the support for the family's been inspiring. it certainly happened this past weekend too. it's important to remember that's occurring amidst a backdrop of really racially intolerant comments that we've been hearing from across the political spectrum. we commented on "the washington post" richard cohen describing how a blackman wearing a hoody is a uniform of crime. i still am flummoxed by that. on the right, congressman are actually telling concerned african-american parents to, quote, get over it. i don't know how many of you

read editorials in "the wall street journal" that quoted martin luther king suggesting black people are morally inferior. you talk about taking words and taking them from their proper context and using martin luther king's words 50 years later to justify the killing of a young black man. walking unarmed through a suburban neighborhood. it's perverse. and elsewhere, for a variety of reasons, that trayvon had it coming. it seems we keep hearing, mika, that trayvon had it coming because he had pot in his system. i keep hearing this from people like sean hannity and others on the right. really? is that the new standard? would we like to go across college campuses in america and tell all white boys that if they tell marijuana in their system, then they're fair game? if they're walking through the neighborhood and they act in an untoward way toward somebody who

is chasing them through a neighborhood, i mean, it's -- this is -- this is what not only the right but some in the middle are suggesting is the defense. it's society's fault. it's actually, we're turning that around. i know gene and others will remember, middle class whites used to be angry when there would be black crime and liberal politicians would say, it's society's fault. it's bigger societal issues. well, that's what's happening now in reverse. they're bigger society issues. you know black men wearing hoodies. they all commit crimes. that's richard cohen's argument. so he had it coming to him. or sean hannity. it's straight out of reefer madness. i hear he had marijuana in his system. you've seen reefer madness. you know what happens. really? really? in 2013, sean?

come on. whatever excuse there is to say this young black man had it coming to him, that is the defense. because there is no defense for shooting down a young black man in a middle class neighborhood with skittles. armed with skittles. this entire spectacle is depressing. and it's giving the parents and loved ones of african-american children even more of a reason to be concerned. and to go out on weekends and peacefully march. the vultures are going to continue to circle around this young teenager's body. and make no mistake of it, they are, and they continue to try a young man, and try to destroy his reputation for doing nothing more than walking through a neighborhood. it's making all of this all too evident that too many people out there in the media and politicians are calculating and callous in their commentary.

andrea mitchell, it's nothing short of depressing. >> it's very depressing. but when we think about this, i think we now have a new standard, which is when the president came out, he had clearly thought this through. it had been something he discussed with his wife, with his children. it's something that he's lived his whole life. he did two things. he first of all taught white people in america those who were unaware what it is like to be a black male. so the teaching moment was also to hold up a mirror, to say to african-americans, i hear you, i understand, i am the moral leader of this country, and let's talk about race. and let's talk about these laws. >> still ahead, why the business model for big law firms is on shaky ground and what it means for a generation of new attorneys already loaded with debt. it's the cover story of the new republic and the details are next. up next, though, we'll ask senator pat toomey about the

recent signs of compromise in the senate. first, bill carins with the check of the forecast. >> compared to last week's amazing heat wave, this week is quiet. we're still not looking at any trouble in the tropics and that's good. we've had a little break from the hurricane season here lately. the worst weather is being found in the state of tennessee. thunderstorms along interstate 40 from memphis to nash vi. also through the ozarks in northern little rock, some storms. so still looking at a hot forecast. it isn't exactly chilly out there. we have another cold front to cool us off diving down in the plains. the first ones to feel some relief, minneapolis. through tuesday, some nice weather there. northern plains, through the great lakes. that's going to slide down for chicago tuesday and move through the ohio valley and portions of new england by wednesday. no such relief for areas of the west. so for washington, d.c., your great weather comes thursday this week. so still kind of warm and humid the beginning this week.

chicago, you have fan at ittic middle of the summer forecast wednesday through friday. you'll want to talk about some of the best weather in the country this summer, check it out seattle. so much for their reputation. they've been sunny and beautiful for much of the summer season. and what a chamber of commerce week this is going to be. upper 70s to low 80s and sunny. you don't get that often there in the northwest for this long. washington, d.c., chance of shower s and showers this afternoon. "i'm part of an american success story,"

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you have presided over what is perhaps the least product itch and certainly one of the least popular congresses in history. how do you feel about that? >> bob, we should not be judged on how many new laws we create. we ought to be judged on how laws we repeal. >> oh, okay. here with us now, republican senator from pennsylvania, senator pat toomey. would you agree with the speaker on that? >> well, i wouldn't suggest that we'd be judged solely by how many things we appeal. >> how about this, i would think perhaps in context, i'm not sure. but least productive and least popular? least productive congress? are we still there in washington? what's the bright spot as you come on "morning joe" today? especially for republicans and what they're able to accomplish in washington? >> you know, when you have

divided government as we have, it's hard to get things done. we did get something done in my first congress. i was delighted to be able to help refor the regulations as they affect small and growing companies to raise capital. that may sound like a technical thing but access to capital's pretty important for our economy. occasionally we get something done. the senate's actually gotten pretty productive in some respects in ways that i don't agree with. if you look recently, the senate passed a farm bill, passed at immigration bill. pretty controversial thing sometimes. we'll have an immigration debate on the floor. which is a welcome change. i remind you, senator reid controls the senate floor. he chose not to put an appropriations bill on the floor. i hope this is a sign that we're actually going to go through the ordinary process of determining how much our government ought to spend and how it should spend it. >> harold, take it away. >> under that analysis, first of all, it's good to see you it

appreciate your work on a lot of issues. you've proven to be more courageous i think than a lot of guys. to the speaker's point, shouldn't congress be judged on how they respond to big public policy challenges? whether you voted for immigration or any of these things, to the senate's credit, they are at least passing us and trying to get the congress to deal with it. you can understand the frustration on the part of the public for congress not seeming to react and respond to big challenges. >> the big challenge of our time is the fact we're on an unsustainable fiscal path. that is already costing us job growth and economic growth. and we don't seem to have the will to address it. during the president's first two years which is almost half the time he spent in office he had a democratically controlled congress. passed a huge stimulus, passed dodd/frank. i happen to think those things

contributed to the weak economic growth we've had since then. you can understand why there's a belief on our side that if we could appeal back some of these things, we'd have stronger economic growth. >> joe's with us. jump in, joe. >> we've been concerned, republicans like yourself and i have been talking for some time about the fact that harry reid's democratic senate was afraid to pass a budget. you feel the same way as me. what do you say about those three senators that are now those republicans senators that are now blocking any progress being done, so we can actually have regular order and get a budget done? don't you think they need to cut it out and let the budget go so we can have paul ryan's budget version versus the senate's version? >> on this, we disagree, joe, and here's why. i'm with those guys, and here's why. we're not saying let's not go to conference on a budget. in fact, i have asked unanimous

consent we do exactly that. what we've said is we shouldn't use a conference report as an opportunity to parachute in a debt ceiling increase. the normal rules of the senate are that you can't introduce something in a conference committee that wasn't contemplated by either the house or senate version. neither version dealt with the debt limit. my concern is this is our only opportunity to get some kind of meaningful reform on the mandatory side of the ledger. that's driving our long-term deficit problem. if we allow them to put in, in the reconciliation instructions that a budget resolution gives you, than you could pass a vote and never use the opportunity to -- >> -- i'm confused, you said the regular rules to the senate wouldn't allow you to do that, so why do you have to stop the budget if you have regular rulings of the senate that would prevent what you're afraid from happening? >> senator reid asked for

unanimous concert to depart from the regular rules so he can go to conference and have the opportunity to raise the debt ceiling this easy way. what we're saying is no, we don't want you to be able to do that. by all means go to conference. even though we disagree strongly. the versions on taxes and spending are very different. but they con sttemplate those things. we think the debt limit ought to be treated differently. >> are you saying that harry reid is trying to change the rules here? i'm a bit confused by what you're suggesting. >> senator reid is simply asking for a suspension of the rules and to operate differently. we do that all the time in the senate. it's not uncommon to say let's suspend the rules and do something in a different fashion. sometimes we agree to do that, sometimes we don't. in this particular case, there are a number of us who think, look, we want to go to conference, but we don't want it to be an opportunity to raise the debt ceiling without refors.

>> you're going to have those who can fight that, right? >> we may or may not. i just think that ought to be a regular process. we ought to go through the regular order and mark up the bill in the senate finance committee. we ought to have hearings. go through a very public process where we examine this question? on the debt ceiling? >> on the debt ceiling. >> i'm with you on that. we already have too much debt. i'm 100% with you on that. but has this ever happened before? has anybody ever held up a budget like this because they're afraid of something that may come up that nobody's suggesting is going to company up? >> well, i wouldn't say that no one's suggesting it's going to come up. every time we've offered to come to conference, we've said, let's just take this off the table. and senator reid and the other democrat senators say, oh, no, that has to be on the table. which suggests that maybe they're considering a mechanism that would allow them to raise the debt ceiling with just 51

votes. >> but harry reid is going to have to deal with republican conferrees in the house. you certainly trust paul ryan, don't you, to do the right thing? >> earlier this year, it was republicans in the house that suspended the debt ceiling concept altogether for a period of time. they said, let's just pretend there's no debt ceiling and allow the government to just keep borrowing. i disagreed with that decision. >> so you're saying you don't trust the republicans in the house? >> i disagreed with how they handled the debt ceiling increase last time and i'm not convinced they'll handle it right this time without us all being at the table. >> all right, senator pat toomey, always good to see you. still enjoying washington? >> occasionally. >> few and far between, right? >> i would like to get back to regular order. let's go through the regular process and let's scrutinize things. congress ought to have some say on how many we should spent. >> like to do the job you were elected to do? >> i'd like to, yeah. >> senator, thank you very much.

good to see you, as always. up next, shakespeare famously wrote, the first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers. but don't look now, that might be happening actually. the new republican frank foer and noat schieber here. keep it right here on "morning joe." [ tap ] [ tap ] ♪ 'cause tonight [ tap ] ♪ we'll share the same dream ♪ ♪ at the dark end of the street ♪ ♪ ♪ you and me ♪ you and me ♪ you and me ♪

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why so uptight? it's not i legal. >> it's immoral. distinction that has no relevance to lawyers but it matters to me. >> well, for someone who has nothing nice to say about lawyers, you certainly have plenty of them around. >> they're like nuclear warheads, they have theirs, so i have mine. once you use them, they [ bleep ] up everything. >> oh, my goodness, salty language there. that was a scene from the 1991 film "other people's money." could lawyers be going by the wayside? here with us now, noam shiber, the author of the magazine's cover story, the last days of

big law. you can't imagine the terror when the money dries up. he writes, for generations, the law functioned as a kind of psychological safety net for the ambitious and upwardly mobile. if you wanted to be a writer or actor or businessman, you could rest assured that law school would be there if your plans fell through. however much you maxed out you credit card, however late you were on your rent, you were never more than an admissions test and six semesters away from respectability. stable is not the way anyone would describe a legal career today. 12 major firms with more than 1,000 partners between them have collapsed entirely. the surviving lawyers live in fear of suffering a similar fate. the cover itself has historic implications as well, frank. >> for 99 years -- >> 99 years. >> "the new republic" has avoided celebrity covers but this is our first.

it's the actor who plays a sleazy lawyer -- >> he looks like one. >> in the show, the amc show "breaking bad." >> the implications are quite serious, are they not? noam, let's start with you. >> yes, they are quite serious. these firms are collapsing. business is drying up. more and more corporations are doing their own legal work and not relying on outside law firms. and, you know, while that story has been told a lot in the last few years, what i try to do is sort of catalog what life is like if you're on the inside of one of these big firms while the business model is just collapsing. it turns out it's not so fun. people are -- partners are stabbing you in the back. if you're a young lawyer, you're trying to bring in business and there's senior partners stealing business from you. you know, people are constantly haggling over money. it's just kind of a miserable place to be these days. >> joe. >> it's absolutely miserable.

also, law firms have changed so much. what did lawyers have, it used to be 30 years ago, i remember my uncle was an attorney and he was the only one in our family i think that had an advanced degree and, my gosh, we would call him up to get answers on everything. hey, i've got an abscessed tooth, what do you think? because you would walk into their offices. they would have 1,000 huge books there. i started practicing law in the early 1990s. if you were a young lawyer, you had to connect with a big firm that had just mountains and mown tabs of books, in bookcases after another. now you've got the internet. you've got west law. you just go onlike, it's cheap, boom, you don't need that. you can rent out an office. you can share -- i mean, the information revelation has hit lawyers as much as anybody, hasn't it? >> yeah, it's the information revolution and the outsourcing

revolution. i tell a story in the piece about a young associate working in a washington firm who just kept noticing people in suits going in and out of an office for several weeks in an office down the hall from her. finally, three or four weeks later, someone told her, these were contract attorneys. they made a third of the bay pa a young lawyer at the firm and they do a lot of the cut woscut. less money for peep wople who m the big bucks. >> an ivory tower that exist where smart people get to go do elevated things. it's just like the rest of the global economy now. you have the same sort of relebtless competition. it's created a completely different culture. >> joe. >> it's unbelievable. you have inflation in every part of the economy. i got out of practicing law in 1994 after i got elected -- >> turns out that was a smart move, joe. >> it was a very smart move. so i worked at an insurance

defense firm and we represented allstate and state farm et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. so they were paying us x amount back in 1993, how much are they paying us now in 2003? and they looked and go, the same. ten years later, even less. because you're right, i mean, the pressure downward, they can contract it out or they can hire different contract lawyers that do it for less and less money. this is not where you want to send your son or daughter to school after they graduate. >> harold. >> the new model obviously the contract law part is a big part because your big companies are now scrutinizing more particularly these big bills. you talk about this old model, hiring lots of associates, you weed it down to the very best, small number of partnerships. is there new models that will emerge, smaller firms, specialized firms that deal with unique pieces of law where perhaps the bigger dollars are

being paid? >> yeah, i definitely heard that quite a bit in reporting the piece. the rationale for the big firm used to be it's kind of a one stop place. you have a big corporation and they need someone to do, you know, litigation, they need someone to do mergers and acquisitions. you could point to the partner down the hall. corporations are much savi savv now about their legal business. it is getting into this smaller boutique operations where they can find the best individual player out there. they don't need a big one-stop shop anymore and that's really just killing these big firms. >> the cover story is "the last days of big law." thank you so much, great to have you both on. some other great pieces in here too. fascinating. coming up, danger at the amusement park. what a tragedy at six flags is exposing about regulation, across the country. we'll have that story when "morning joe" returns.

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when i was a young kid. but you just sit there as an adult, you look at the latches, you look at the bolts, you just wonder, is this really what i want to do. i don't know, where do you fall as a parent on these rides? >> i don't like it. i have one child that's absolutely obsessed with roller coasters and is fearless. i went on one at an amusement park i will not name. it was an offshoot a roller coaster. i feel like i almost fell out. i will never go on one again ever. then we hear this weekend story. six flags over texas continues to investigate the -- >> terrible story. >> -- death a woman killed friday night near dallas. it was her first visit ever to six flags. rosy esparza was riding the roller coaster topping at 14 stories high. according to witnesses, she was concerned her lap restraint wasn't working when she got on

the ride. and grew pab panicked as the ri departed. disaster struck after the ride's first bump. a 79-degree dip. >> when they pulled up, the daughter and son of the lady that flew out of the car were hysterical and they were saying that their mother flew out of the car. >> there is no federal oversight of roller coasters and texas is 1 of 21 states that has no agency to oversea the investigation. six flags and the german company that made the ride will conduct the review. we'll follow that closely. coming up, business before the bell. cnbc's brian sullivan, just back from detroit, what he learned about the city's bankruptcy. keep it right here on "morning joe." al, we're so choosy about the cuts of beef that meet our higher kosher standards that only a slow-motion bite can capture all that kosher delight. and when your hot dog's kosher, that's a hot dog you can trust.

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do you think there is a federal bailout in detroit's future? >> no. i don't expect one. i've said before, the state cannot bail out the city of detroit. and part of the context i would say that to you in, it's not with just putting more money in the situation. it's about better services for citizens again. it's about accountable government. >> welcome back. let's go to brian sullivan right now with business before the bell. you went to detroit. it's an absolute miserable situation. we're talking about having benefits and pensions cut. "wall street journal" reporting that municipal bankruptcies don't usually go very well. and look at the state of the city. 70% of parks have been shut down since 2008. 4 in 10 lights don't work, street lights don't work there. "the wall street journal"

already reporting the police force has been cut and response time is five to six times slower than the rest of the cities across the states. there seems to be very little left to cut. and yet that's exactly what they'll have to do. >> yeah, the situation is almost untenable. to your point, the average response time to a 911 call is 58 minutes. in detroit's precinct 8, it's 115 minutes. nearly a two-hour wait. residents are basically saying why bother to call the police. we're not blaming the police, it's not their fault, they've been cut to the bone. the cars are so old, they often break down. we went into the hardest hit area called the brightmore section of detroit. we talk about 78,000 abandoned homes. i wanted to see it for myself. i didn't want to say, oh, look, troubled types. we went down to one street basically that is trying to be cleared out because all those a ban doned hopes, they fester crime. two days before we got there, found a body.

there were boats everywhere. people are dumping -- people spray painting their own homes, saying you will be shot if you try to dump something on my property. it's an american tragedy, guys. no city, when you see it -- i've been all over the world. you should never have something like this in this country. how it's got be to this point is probably even a bigger tragedy. and the media's probably to blame because we've ignored the store. that home was one we went into. i'm honestly getting choked up because it was an abandoneded home. right at our feet was a baby's stuffed teddy bear next to some drug paraphernalia. you can't believe that it gets this bad in this country. it shouldn't. >> based on what brian just said, do you believe a federal bailout is in the works and should be the case as steve ratner suggested over the weekend? joe? >> it's going to be -- >> i support a federal investment there. just curious, your thoughts on it. >> it's going to be a very, very

hard sell for congress and not just for republicans in congress, but democrats as well. obviously, the state did a bailout last year. it didn't seep m to work. i think if there is eventually a bailout it is going to be tied to so many conditions i suspect a lot of union leaders in detroit won't accept it. but that's all they're going to get. if they get a bailout, there's going to be so many terms and so many conditions that it's going to be untenable i think for a lot of people that have been running that city for some time. of course, republicans would say, have been running that city into the ground for decades. >> you know, guys, i'll tell you also why a bailout is unlikely. when you look at the numbers, the numbers on detroit are staggering. there are other cities in america that have similar-type finances. there are some large midwestern cities that have hugely unfunded

obligations. this case, when, probably not if, but when, because most lawyers i talk to over the weekend suggest this will be allowed to proceed. this is going to set the precedent going forward. and everybody you talk to believes there will be other cities. so if you set the precedent with a bailout, i'm not saying one should be instituted or not, but if you set the precedent, then you're going to have to do it for others. and i think then you get into some more politically and financially sticky issues. >> can conditions be drawn up consistent? probably would agree. can you imagine a set of conditions drawn up where retirees and those union heads and others would accept compromise? the car companies got $180 billion. you're talking $18 billion for detroit. i'm not saying it should get all of that. but you have a lot of detroit doing well. a lot of outside areas doing well. a lot of good things in place there. for all of it to be held back for businesses that face this

kind of uncertainty, i think this situation screams out a lot -- >> they've been selling debt, guys, for years to fund their problems. in 2000, 2010, 2012, they kept selling more debt. most of that actually is held by german banks believe it or not. we found that out over the weekend. it's going to be germany versus detroit. which when you look at the chrysler mercedes thing sort of points a different picture. you've got a population that has simply left the area. you've got $131 million in uncollected taxes it you've got an average age of firehouses 80 years old. even if they had the money to buy new trucks, they won't fit in the fire stations because the doors are too small because they were build for smaller fire trucks. those are the homes we saw. we're showing some of the video. people literally spray painting the front of their own home, saying if you come on my property, i will shoot you. i mean, i know you guys are going, i encourage you to go there and see for yourself and bring the story to the american

people. you've got a bigger audience than i do. >> we will do it, brian sullivan, thank you. we're headed there in a few weeks. up next, what did we learn today? i'm jennifer hudson. i hate getting up in the morning. i love cheese. i love bread. i'm human! and the weight watchers 360 program lets me be. the reason i'm still in this body feelin' so good isn't because i never go out and enjoy the extra large, extra cheese world we live in. it's because i do. and you can too, with the weight watchers 360 program. the power to lose weight like never before. join for $1. hurry. offer ends july 27th. the weight watchers 360 program. because it works. tens of thousands of dollars in hidden fees on their 401(k)s?! go to e-trade and roll over your old 401(k)s to a new e-trade retirement account. none of them charge annual fees and all of them offer low cost investments. e-trade. less for us. more for you.

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in the bunker of winston churchill's world war ii bunker getting ready to report on the birth of the new royal. look, i found there's a young boy, i think his name is snnige churchill, he just popped by. he is not related to me. but young nigel probably his great great grandson, i don't know. >> what have you learned today, mika? >> we have great bookings tomorrow. madeleine albright to name a few. we'll leave it there because you took all the time with that cute, cute, cute little boy. >> you can say hi. >> hi. >> if it's way too early, what time is it, mika? >> it's time for "morning joe." but now it's time for "the daily rundown" with chuck todd. the conversation starter. president obama's personal reaction to the zimmerman trial verdict sparks a new wave of discussion and debate. a very special discussion this morning on race, politics and what's next. plus, no main