in the chair tomorrow. so make sure to come back and see him. and if you want to catch more of me, if that's something you're interested in, watch "the cycle" weekdays at 3:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc or follow me on twitter @arimelber on the twitter machine. "hardball" starts right now. black and white? let's talk about black and white. let's play "hardball." let me start tonight with this. a national moment of epiphany. that's what we're having right now in america. it's about trayvon martin and something bigger. it's about the box this tragedy came in, the national environment in which black men are type cast, assumed by whites in too many cases to be something they are not. i don't want to generalize here. african-americans didn't and don't need a moment of new understanding about the situation in which they have born and lived in this country of the free.

they know it. i'm learning myself firsthand. they know what it means to be refused a taxi in a big city because the driver doesn't want to go to your neighborhood. they know what it means to ride on a bus. and while not having to sit in the back, can't help but notice and feel the exclusion that comes when the whites coming aboard go to every seat until the one next to them is the only option. i don't want to generalize about whites. there are people so damned angry about life in america these days generally, they don't want to figure out what it's like for someone else who on these matters faces a worse time of it. but it was once said in a great movie line that people only truly believe what they discover for themselves. now these days after the verdict in the george zimmerman case and in all the national conversation are things that many of us whites have not heard until now. they may have been somewhere in our understanding, but not in any effective life-steering way. perhaps we've come now to the conversation we've needed. more important, that we come to

learn benefit perhaps on race in this united states of america. eugene robinson is a columnist for "the washington post" and an msnbc political analyst extraordinaire. and gene robinson a man of a similar name is a retired bishop with the episcopal diocese of new hampshire. he is now a senior fellow at the center for american progress, which i think is fair to say is a progressive group. anyway, on friday, the president spoke powerfully and personally about race in the wake of the george zimmerman verdict. he said trayvon martin could have been 35 years ago. let's listen. >> there are very few african-american men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping at a department store. that includes me. there have been very few african-american men who haven't had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. that happened to me, at least before i was a senator. i don't want to exaggerate this, but those sets of experiences inform how the african-american

community interprets what happened one night in florida. >> here we are, gene. >> well, it's true. >> the president of the united states talking about it. >> yeah, yeah. you know, it's funny. his past attempts to talk about race haven't gone exactly the way he thought they would, or he hoped they would. they didn't spark a conversation. they didn't kind of penetrate. this time it did this. time i think by speaking so personally and extensively about his own experiences, i think he opened the door in a way he hadn't earlier and made possible this kind of conversation we're having. >> gene, it's so interesting to watch when we do progress rapidly like on gay rights, marriage equality. astounding speed. and on race, i want to get to the o.j. trial, which is somewhat an echo of this in a different way, but similar ways of racial lines divided the way we see something. we haven't changed much on race

in terms of these go to your battle stations. whites have an attitude. blacks have had experience and an attitude. >> except that white people would tell you that race is just not a problem that we have this -- >> why do they do that? >> we have this wonderful level. >> why do they do that? >> well, because they don't want to look at it. because if it gets named the way the president names it -- >> but they go to church and look around in a church and everybody is either white or black. you know we divide on sunday morning. >> absolutely. >> they go to parties. some people make more of an effort than they used to. but generally the parties at dinnertime is separate time. this is just a fact. movie theaters tend to be very rarely integrated 50-50 or closely. sometimes. >> this is not about what one person feels about another person who happens to be of a different race. this is about systemic racism. this is about a system that is set up to benefit one sort of people. >> so who set it up? >> it gets set up over time. and slavery, i think, is the thing that overrides. this. >> gene is talking about the day to day. you get up in the morning, you're a black male. and what you're likely to

experience in the 21st century, that could be fixed. let's not talk about the impossible. you can stop staring at people in a restaurant where there aren't many african-americans. you can go to a seat next to a black guy. you can do these things. it's not going to hurt you in any way and it might make you feel better. >> here is what will help. if the black gene robinson and the white gene robinson sit down and talk about how we live in different worlds, that is painful. and it's something that people, especially white people don't want to look at. >> what would change a year from now? >> what would it bring? >> yeah. >> it would bring less of the staring, less of the systemic ways in which we remind the black gene robinsons of the world that they don't just quite measure up. >> well, you know, but i actually think this is kind of the way we have that conversation, though. we have it at times of crisis. we have it around events. we don't just sit down in some sort of structured way and talk about raise, the way it is suggested when we say national

conversation about race. i think this is a national conversation about race. it happens in fits and starts. it's scratchy. it's uncomfortable. it's a way we make this sort of ratchet-like progress. and it's a way that we should recognize, i think, when we're not making progress, when in fact we're retrogressing, in fact in housing segregation which in many ways is as bad now as it was, you know, in the old days. >> the you and i are the same age. we grew up in block busting. >> schools are as segregated now as they were before brown. >> life flight is real. >> and the sort of housing patterns. >> the usual suspects crap that goes on. because that's what we're talking about here. the president was very particular. he wasn't talking about people being biased. that's part of tribal life in america. you to put up with certain

amounts of it. people do tend to group together in some way, music, for example, things like that. but the stuff that coo be changed in the near future. he talked about people look locking their doors. he is not threatening. he doesn't look like any kind of aggressive guy to me. so you have to make a judgment besides race. instead of stupidly pushing the locks because the guy is black say wait a minute, why am i doing this? >> you to look at the person, evaluate the person adds an individual. remember, he was using those examples to set the context of why african-americans felt so passionate about the trayvon martin case. and really, the bottom line is that it's very difficult for americans given all this other stuff, the locking of the doors and everything, to imagine that trayvon martin could have stood his ground on that sidewalk, that he would have been accorded the benefits of that law had things worked out differently. >> let's talk about the way the whites and blacks look at these same kind of cases. we go to 100 different reasons why these cases are different. they didn't involve black and white victim and accused perpetrator. polls show how divided this

country was by race when it comes to the zimmerman verdict. a new poll "the washington post" and abc news released today of a new poll showing while 86% of african-americans disapprove of the verdict that the trial came to in that case, only 31% of whites agreed. now we look back. i chose to do this. argue with me about this. how americans were the same way divided along racial lines in the o.j. simpson case. look at the numbers. they're frighteningly similar. poll results in that case were frighteningly similar. in late of october of 1995, 89% of african-americans agreed with the jury's decision to acquit o.j. simpson. 36% of whites, almost parallel these numbers. another result from "the washington post"/abc poll is striking when it comes to the question of whether african-americans and other minorities get equal treatment in the criminal justice system. 86%, african-americans again say they do not while whites, it's less than half of, that 41% or slightly higher there say minorities aren't created equally. so whites do get it to some

extent. at least a strong minority that they get the idea that blacks may get screwed in the court system. >> gallup did a recent poll in which one out of four near term men under the age of 35 reports unfair treatment by the police in the last 30 days. >> one in four? >> one in four in the last 30 days. >> you think it's not getting any better? >> well, that would indicate that -- that it's still there. >> so if a young -- barack obama were still 26 years old, wherever he was when he got this kind of treatment from people, if he were 26 years old, dressed the same, looked the same as he did then, today would he basically have the same kind of problem? >> if he lived in new york, he would be stop and frisked. i think he would be. i do think, though, and you kind of pointed it out, it's kind of extraordinary that four out of ten whites believe there is bias in the criminal justice system. that's actually a lot of people. it's not -- it's certainly nowhere approaching what african-americans, the reality. >> the cops brought you in on a streetcar violation, a criminal violation, they would beat you up before you got to the jail.

the old days. maybe. >> not in the way it was in the old days. >> no, but the danger is, you know, what i told my sons. and what every african-american tells their sons. if you're pulled over by the cops, turn the lights on. keep your hands in plain view. no sudden movements. speak politely. respond to questions. don't do anything that could -- >> the only part -- >> my dad worked in the court system said officer, say officer, over and over again. >> yeah, well. >> much more severe. >> as val nicholson said on your show last week, you either wind up in jail, in the hospital, or in the morgue. and i don't think that's changed. and it should let us know that this response to the trayvon martin case is just naming the elephant that has been in the room for a very long time. >> i don't want to talk about stuff we can't fix. i'm only here for my lifetime. i want to fix some things. i think some things can get

better. if people are watching and they say, you know, probably in the next five days i'll run into some black people and why don't try to be a little different this time? you can begin to make the changes. i think it's positive. the president also spoke about the need for all americans to do some soul-searching. let's listen to the president again. >> there have been talk about should we convene a conversation on race. i haven't seen that to be particularly productive when politicians try to organize conversations. they end up being stilted and politicized and folks are locked into the positions they already have. on the other hand, and families and churches and workplaces, there is a possibility that people are a little bit more honest, and at least you ask yourself your own questions about am i ringing as much bias

out of myself as i can? >> you know, i love it when there is no bs in politics. i'm not saying he isn't guilty of bs like a lot of politicians. but at that moment he is sitting there thinking out loud. that's him. >> it sounded like a very honest sentiment and also very wise advice. convening a national conversation. >> jefferson hotel. the 12 apostles sitting around you, a formal setting, all knowing they're being quoted. politicians are generally incapable of just gut talk. they teach themselves not to talk from their gut. >> but thing is more than just the sort of living around the kitchen table stuff that can be done. for example, we can look at the impact of stand your ground in the martin/zimmerman case. now, zimmerman didn't claim it at trial. but at the beginning, trayvon, it was really -- you know. >> he wouldn't go chasing after a guy if he didn't have that gun. >> right.

he had the gun, and police made the initial decision that stand your ground covered. and therefore they didn't do a proper investigation. >> john mccain. it blinks on like a light going back and forth. you never know when you're going to get the good john mccain on immigration, or the bad john mccain. he is definitely there here is the good john mccain. one of the few republican leaders to give the president kudos on his speech last friday. here is what he said on cnn. let's watch. >> what i got out of the president's statement, which i thought was very impressive is that we need to have more conversation in america. i think we continue to make progress. but there are events like this that highlight and emphasize the fact that we still have a long way to go. we cannot be complacent in our society when we still have a dramatic disparity between black youth unemployment and nonblack youth unemployment. >> bishop gene robinson. >> yeah, the numbers don't lie. the numbers that he is pointing

to around employment are replicated in all kind of places. and he is right to push this conversation. it's the one-on-one conversations. but i think it takes us, us white guys to bring this up. i mean, when barack obama brings this up, he is either pushing his own agenda or he's the hate mongerer in chief. >> i think bill cosby talks, it helps too. it offends people, but i like when he talks because he has a lot of truth in what he says. maybe not the whole truth. people like mccain speak. gene, your thoughts? >> everybody should talk. everybody should do. the other thing. >> do as well as talk. >> the other thing president obama talked about was the crisis among black men. black boys, black men, and they're feeling that they don't have a stake in the society because they don't have means to succeed in this society. and this is not a singular -- this is not an easy fix. >> stevens pointed to that problem in the civil war. it started. give the guy some acreage and a mule. he has some capital, and that

goes way back to then. >> right. but here we are now. and to fix this requires a holistic approach from a lot of different angles. it costs a lot of money, takes a lot of time and effort. and, you know, so we can't do federal programs. but -- >> every time you write a column, the stuff that trails after it on the wires, that's your conversation. >> well, that's my conversation. don't take that as a model, okay. >> it's not always joyous. thank you, gene robinson. thank you, bishop gene robinson, who was born gene robinson like mickey mantle was born mickey. coming up, we're going to flip the coin on this one, even to trayvon martin himself. no surprise coming some of the bad guys here. and later, as you surely know by now, the royal family has grown by one. buckingham palace has announced today, four hours late, her royal highness, the duchess of cambridge was safely delivered to a son. 4:24 today. her royal highness and the child are both doing well.

that's the quote from the report. we'll have the fanfare and the enduring special relationship between the u.s. and the uk. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] how do you do a summer clearance the dodge way?

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welcome back to "hardball." a race-baiting pot smoker. that's the image of president obama that some conservatives are creating in the wake of his surprise speech about race in america this friday. within moments of his remarks last friday about trayvon martin and racial tension, conservative radio talk show host todd starnes, whoever he is, decried the president's comments. quote, president obama is now our race-baiter in chief. his remarks are beyond reprehensible is how he put it in his social media by the way. starnes also accused the president of inciting riots saying so all those folks who have been rioting this week, what do you think they heard obama, obama say today? it doesn't stop there for republican pundits, if you will. fox news' sean hannity has a theory that obama identifies

with martin because of, get this, drugs. this is hannity speaking on his radio show. >> you know, the politician who is quick to stick his nose in all this first, you know, the police acted stupidly. you know, if i had a son, he would look like trayvon. now the president said trayvon could have been me 35 years ago. oh, this is a particularly helpful comment. is that the president's admitting i guess because, what, he was part of the choom gang and he smoked pot and he did a little blow, i'm not sure how to interpret that, because we know trayvon had been smoking pot that night. i'm not sure what that means. >> right wing pundits have been vocal about the zimmerman trial, and the president conservative lawmakers have remained relatively silent. relatively silent. clarence page for the chicago tribune and the great one, david corn is a news making effort. you're a hell of an analyst, breaking stories.

let's talk about this, clarence page. you and i have been together in this business for 30 years, i think. >> yep, yep. >> are you surprised that the right wing is so ridiculous? >> they were preparing their remarks before obama even finished his speech, or even before he started it. this is such reflects of trash talk, you know. they've always been looking for anything to use to show that obama is a racist, you know. >> because that frees them. >> you just heard that little soliloquy of sean hannity's. the idea that obama was elected because he is black, blah, blah, blah, without dealing with the issue. >> but look, you're african-american, i'm a white guy. >> so i've noticed. >> yes. >> i've noticed. i pick up on the fact that people call people racists just to justify their own attitudes. >> it's also a way offending off >> it's also a way of fending

off the n-word, which has become -- >> it's just the pot smoking whatever. >> the white version of the n word as far as conservatives are concerned. >> let's go all the way back to the b generation. it's called reefer. reefer madness. let's go all the way. >> it's trying to perpetuate stereotypes with not being concerned of a segment of our society. it's blaming black people and black kids because they're all bad, they're all in gangs. the issue that the president comes out and talks about on friday which is the disparity and death penalty sentencing, the disparity and drug laws and the impact that has, particularly on young african-american men and how that feeds into the -- >> screw them. screw them. >> i mean -- >> i'm not bill cosby. i don't have the chops to start talking like he does in the black community because he is from the black community. >> from philadelphia, though. >> he can do that. here is a guy, forget race, color or creed. here is a guy that went high school with no father, he split back to another country. he gets great grades in school. he plays basketball. he is a good athlete, a scholar

athlete. he gets in the better schools. he gets in a good school, the first school he goes, then he goes to columbia, an ivy league school. then he does well enough there to get into harvard law. he doesn't go clean up, become a hustler and making money in big corporate firms, he works for the people he came from. he decides he is going to help little people in community development, and he has the guts, the guts after losing to bobby rush in your town to go out in the suburbs who are white people are in a car with nothing but a map next to him. and he went out there in that car all alone with that map next to him to go into an area and ask people why don't they vote for him. how can you ask for a better person? and they go back and say he smoked some pot. to describe him that way is racist. >> sure. he worked hard. he played by the rules. and he gets beat up anyway. everybody knows he has bent over backwards to avoid talking about race. >> this is part of the effort they have made from the beginning to delegitimize the guy. sometimes it's in racial terms like birtherism.

>> he lives in africa. he is from africa. >> other times he is a secret socialist. he has a plan to destroy america. he is a communist, he is a muslim. when sean gets throughout and says oh, this guy is just a street hood, that's what he is saying and it's okay, he is accusing the president of saying it's okay to be a street hood. >> people should lock their doors when he walks by. >> exactly. >> right? >> in watching this reaction, one thing that sort of occurs to me, try to think about why the right keeps having these sort of responses when we get into these racial issues. and i think in one way they are so anti- -- i'm not saying whether they're racist or not, but they're so anti-anti-racist that they see people trying to make an issue out of this, and whether it's the jesse jacksons or the -- of the world, and they are so put off by that, they have to come and attack. >> he is a smart guy on television. one of the best radio guys we got. >> doesn't believe what he says. >> that's what i can never figure out.

why does he go. >> you're being very charitable. >> why does he do it over there? he is not going to lose a single audience member. >> remember morton downey jr.? there is a new documentary out. i just saw it this weekend here. is a guy who really got this thing started of riling up the working class jersey folks in his audience. and that is where today's troll culture comes from. sean hannity, by the way, in the documentary as well as some others because donny started this whole thing. it's like two minutes of hate and george orwell. these are frustrated working class people. and rather than deal with the real issues of class division in this society right now, it's easy to rile people up over scapegoats. that's what has happened. i don't want to dignify what that kind of race-baiting journalism is by calling it journalism. we have legitimate conservative politicians. >> why do they go that far? i don't think sean who people like listening to him. fair enough.

they watch him on tv. why does he go this far? because he wouldn't lose a single audience member. if he came out and said this case is really complicated. it's complicated by racial history. it's complicated by profiling. i don't know what happened in that verdict. i'm not going to judge. and just play it like the president played it. >> i think there is a knee-jerk reaction on their part that is based in part to get ratings, but also based on what i think he really feels, a certain tribalism, that we have these people on the other side that are making a big racial stink out of this. they're trying to make us feel bad. and we're going to react against that and be -- >> fairly normal. >> well, when you have newt gingrich out there talking about the food stamp president. >> i know. >> we've talked about this. newt is not a dumb man, but he knows what he is doing, but he feels this is the way to get his tribe riled up. >> that's how he won south carolina. as long as it works, you know. >> it does work. >> this is the other part. we'll get back to the better part of the story is that people might be learning. thank you, as always, clarence. and thank you for being on my

last sunday show, by the way. >> delighted. >> i hated to see you go. but you were great. corn, you're great. up next, you're better for "hardball." karl rove, obamacare and "sharknado." this is "hardball," the place for politics.

back to "hardball." now to the sideshow. karl rove's crossroads gps is at it again. this time he is taking a cue from the made for tv disaster flick "sharknado." if you haven't heard about it, i'll do my best to explain. twitter exploded earlier this month when the sci-fi channel premiered a campy b movie about, and i really can't believe this, tornadoes full of sharks. that terrorized los angeles, but somehow, a ridiculous plot line and terrible writing and ridiculous plots it became an instant ironic hit. it generated so much buzz for the film, that the network is already planning a sequel "sharknado." the star tara reid even admitted it's so bad it's good. while the opportunity to parody was not lost on karl rove, who decided to piggyback off the sensation with this anti-obama care ad. >> obama care. tornado, obamacarenado. just when you thought it was safe to go to the doctor.

>> nearly seven million americans could lose their employer-based plans. >> a rising tide of health care costs. >> many people have already seen higher premiums. >> doctors are turning more seniors away. >> obamacarenado. >> obama care has been wonderful for america. >> transforming the united states of america. >> the perfect storm is coming. are you ready? >> well, actually, the perfect storm already came. it came last november, carl, baby, because you did lose ohio. anyway, some new yorkers are recovering from a political race of a different kind, white water rafting. andrew cuomo and mayor bloomberg faced off in a rafting race earlier today. and while the jaunt was originally proposed as a fun way to promote tourism in the adirondack mountains.

the competition was more cutthroat than you might have imagined. here's what the journal said of the governor's overboard preparations. quote, staff of legislative leaders have grown suspicious, whispering to reporters that mr. cuomo and his staff are engaging in secret practice sessions out in the mountains. mr. cuomo declined to comment on any alleged aquatic activity. as it turns out his buoyant optimism paid off. he beat the mayor's team by 18 seconds. up next, the birth of the royal baby. a future king, perhaps. we don't yet know his name, but we do know he is third in line to the british throne. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. she knows you like no one else. and you wouldn't have it any other way. but your erectile dysfunction - you know, that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough

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i'm milissa rehberger. here is what is happening. a flight slammed on the runway. sparks flying. official say the front landing gear collapsed with 150 passengers and crew on board. none of the injuries appear to be life threatening. and the pope's first trip, the pope mobile into a frenzied crowd. now back to "hardball." hear ye, hear ye, hear ye, we have a new prince today.

god save the queen. >> that's a town cryer, believe it or not, and it's a boy. that's the message from london. we just heard it. probably the most anticipated birth in the world took place earlier today. the baby boy was born just about eight hours ago to the duchess of cambridge, the wife of prince william. the new heir, the royal heir who is third in line now to the throne weighs 8 pounds, 6 ounces. he was born at 4:24 p.m. lund time which is 11:24 a.m. in the east coast of the usa. there's no word on his name but he has a title, prince of cambridge. actually, his highness the prince of cambridge. both mother and child are doing well. prince william was present at the birth, very modern of him. and queen elizabeth, that would be the baby's great grandmother is delighted by the news. and prince charles said he was enormously proud and happy to be a grandfather for the first time. well, late today prime minister david cameron head of the tory party celebrated the royal birth. >> it's wonderful news. and i'm sure right across the

country and indeed right across the commonwealth people will be celebrating and wishing the royal couple well. it is an important moment in the life of our nation. but i suppose above all, it's a wonderful moment for a warm and loving couple who have got a brand-new baby boy. it's been a remarkable few years for our royal family. the royal wedding that captured people's hearts, that extraordinary and magnificent jubilee. and now this royal birth, all from a family that have given this nation so much incredible service. and they can know that a proud nation is celebrating with a very proud and happy couple tonight. >> for more on the royal birth, we're talking about nbc's michelle kosinski and tom sykes, the london bureau chief for the daily beast. and j.d. heyman. michelle, give us a wrap-up on what has been happening. you've been covering this for hours. give us a picture of what happened today and its importance.

>> hi, chris. well, the birth was announced at about 8:30. we got that from the palace by e-mail. we eventually saw the royal announcement, the official piece of paper leaving the hospital a short time after that. but it announced that princess kate, the duchess of cambridge, had her son at 4:24 this afternoon. so four hours prior. kind of an interesting delay in the announcement, although a member of the government i talked to thought that that wasn't surprising. this couple throughout their relationship, their engagement and marriage have done things their own way. so that may have been their decision to wait a little while. so we learn that the baby was 8 pounds, 6 ounces. the mother and baby are doing well, and that kate, william, and the child will stay here overnight in the hospital. still no word on the name, though. we're waiting to hear from that. and right now you can almost

hear champagne corks popping all over england. although i actually haven't heard any here among the press. that's probably a good thing at this point. i just talked to a member of the house of lords after he really did have a champagne toast in honor of the royal baby. and he had some interesting insights, saying that for the first time in a long time, there will be three kings in a row now. he was quite pleased that this boy, surprising much of the public, was -- that it wasn't a girl, that this was a boy. this will add continuity, he felt. like three kings in a row will be king charles, king william, and king whomever. maybe they'll go for something like arthur. but continuity at a time when the royal family has successfully redefined itself, entered the modern age in a humble way that has worked for them, that has remained relevant to much of the public here. when you think about it, back when prince charles was a baby,

when he was 1 year old, the queen went on a tour of the commonwealth that lasted about a year. and she left prince charles behind. well, she took some harsh criticism for that. and we can be relatively assured that that will not happen with this baby. but keep in mind at the time the queen was already the sovereign. prince william and kate now, prince william won't be king likely for very many years. so that has bought them some time, a buffer, a bubble of privacy, even though you can say that they're the most popular members of the royal family right now. but they do have -- they don't have the same kind of duties that the queen does. so they will have some degree of their normal life that they have managed to carve out for themselves. chris? >> let me bring in tom sykes. thanks for that, michelle. tom, it looks to me like the royal family has a problem. the guy has 70 years to wait, 60 years to wait. do we lose the glamour and majesty when we have to have these long waits?

shouldn't there be some abdications? >> it's an interesting point, chris, because i do feel that the boldness of prince william proves the ultimate failure of all attempts to find a cure for baldness. because if one could have been found, surely prince william would have had it. yeah, absolutely. but you're right. i think that the date we're talking about, kind of 2070 by the time we see this little kid taking over the throne. because they're all living longer and longer. and they won't abdicate. the queen won't abdicate. we've seen the dutch royal family abdicate, the belgian royal family abdicate. the queen won't abdicate. and you know, chris, sometimes when i have a slow news day, i call up the palace and i say to them is the queen thinking of abdicating? and they always say, well, allow

me to refer you, mr. sikes, to the queen's succession speech in which she said she would devote her entire life, dedicate her entire life to the people. the key words are entire life. so there is no way the queen is going anywhere. and you're absolutely right. this kind of silver monarchy, it could present more of a problem if people start living until, you know, 100, 110. who knows. >> these guys are going to be old testament figures, big cal biblical ages, j.d., that i the time they put that crown on their head. >> listen, they live a long time. remember the queen mum. these people hang on. and they have all the resources in the world. there are no beheadings, there are no coups happening. so it's going to be a long time before this little boy becomes the king. they're becoming less and less victorian in the way they raise their kids. so, you know, this will be somewhat more normal seeming. it still will be very different from what we experienced. but, yeah, it's going to be a while. >> last word.

only a couple of seconds here. michelle, excellent taste i think in the monarchy in picking kate middleton. she has been absolutely flawless. >> yeah. i mean, she has been criticized. nobody really wants to criticize her. very few do. but some people do say, well, she hasn't had a full-time job. she hasn't experienced the things that many modern women have to experience in many cases, that she has been sort of groomed to be princess. not all people like that. however, yes, a lovely choice with her background, her family history, which includes coal miners. that's often cited. the fact that her mother was a -- started out as a flight attendant, built her own successful business. so she has experienced the kind of warm, normal family life that has been great not only for her, but for prince william. people always say that he has

sort of adopted mrs. middleton as his, surrogate mother. and that that normal life has lent them both much. >> michelle, i've been rooting for her, even when he was giving her the slow treatment there for a while. i thought he was a little slow on the draw. but i think she is great. michelle kosinski, great reporting today. it's been wonderful, and memorable. and tom sykes. and you know why. and tom sykes, you're a hoot. and j.d. heyman. the special relationship between the uk and the u.s. two countries separated by as churchill once said, a common language. this is "hardball," the place for politics. only in my 60's...

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welcome back to "hardball." america's love affair with the royal family has come to characterize the entire special relationship between the two countries. the u.s. and britain. but that relationship wasn't always so special. in fact, a diplomatic turning point for the better occurred just before world war ii at a picnic of all places during the first royal visit ever which came to our country in 1939. president franklin roosevelt mischievously decided to serve the monarchs hot dogs and beer. the informality was unfamiliar to the royal couple. they were good sports and rose to the occasion. the hot dog summit as it was known went down in history as a diplomatic triumph for fdr. it endeared the americfamily to american public. autumn brewington covering the royal family for the "washington post" and murphy with itn over in new york. emma, i love the name murphy, so i'm going to start you. the special relationship has fraught to the fore many movies, my favorite, "love actually." it started i always thought with churchill and fdr but apparently

started with fdr and george vi. it seems to hold true. i always say brits are always with you, if you're right, the french are with you. you sure you're right if the french are with you. the british/america thing, who's leading the band here? us or them? >> it's hard to know. i've been out in washington today and absolutely amazed by the warmth that's been shown from people here about the situation back home and this royal baby. and to be perfectly honest, i was coming over here thinking i'm sure there will be an interest in this, but i doubt it will be anywhere near the scale it is at home. and i have to say that i think it might be the americans that are leading the way in this because the interest here was absolutely phenomenal. and i don't think you would have had the same feeling in the uk if, say, there was a baby born in the white house that we've really seen on the streets here and i think it's quite sad but i think that's probably the way it is. >> i first realize the

importance of the british royals back when tim was alive, tim russert. and i remember he was covering all the news, all the washington news and i remember going over to the british embassy and seeing all the bouquets and memorabilia left for diane when she was killed. i realized there was something going on here, among women especially, something going on here in this connection. >> so women could, women looked at diana and they related to her and she was, you know, nobility from birth but was a young girl who had a fairytale story -- >> to a point. >> right. she married the handsome prince but then there wasn't a happy ending. people saw her and she was lovely and they really liked her and wanted her it -- >> he was kind of a cold tube, wasn't he? look at him there. he looks pretty cold. he's a chilling sort. she always grabbed us because she was obviously attractive and had a whimsy and, you know, girlish quality obviously and the american women, especially, rooted for her through all that

horrible year it was called. >> right. they rooted for her. they identified with her and identify with kate. they feel like diana and kate are very accessible. >> do you feel the americans are as a country anglophilic? >> i can see that being the case. to pick up on the earlier point there about the diana link and the kate comparison, i think possibly it is the nature of kate and the love that there was for diana over here when you think back to her visit in 1985. the dance with travolta. the moment that she really became a figure on the american stage. i think that is what has really rye invigorated where this great love of the british monarchy amongst the americans comes from, in the more recent generations because though there were those warm days back in 1939 and the queen's visit during the bicentennial, diana was the person who really set a light to that relationship, again, and i think in kate, people see somebody who's so

similar there and that people can identify with. this is a girl that came from a very normal family. she's not somebody who's been from the establishment all the way along. that matters, i think, to people both back home and also in this country. >> emma murphy, and thank you. i realized the closeness of the relationship when i heard a guy in swaziland, a former british colony doing a great al jolson. we'll be right back after this.

let me finish tonight with this. 100 years ago the most important fact in the world is we the united states and the united kingdom spoke the same language. 100 years from now, the same will hold true. we connect with england and she with us for the basic reason both of us speak english. neither of our countries likes learning other languages. we love the beauty and richness of our own which increases in strength, by the way, globally year by year even if we speak with different accents. our actors, the best of them are often english or australian. our tv stars, michael j. fox, and all the rest, come from canada. a country that remains closer in history to london. we share the same movie stars, same books, increasingly the same newspeople and commentators. we sing and hum the same songs. and when it counts, we are with the brits and they with us from the falklands to iraq and back to two world wars. when trouble comes, our two flags fly as one. tommy and g.i. joe go to war together. sometimes we get the problems that arise between us for the

point of rooting for the other side like in the great memorable scene from "love actually." >> i love that word, relationship. covers a manner of sins, doesn't it? i fear that this has become a bad relationship. a relationship based on the president taking exactly what he wants and casually ignoring all those things that really matter to britain. we may be a small country, but we're a great one, too. country of shakespeare, the beatles, sean connery, harry potter. david beckham's right foot. left foot. the the friend who bullies us. he's no longer a friend. strength, now onward. i will be prepared. and the president shall be prepared.

>> wow. yes, we're that close to root for the other side even especially when it's our guy being the bad guy. the special relationship is for real, and now we have a new baby in the family. that's "hardball" for now. now the family. thanks for being with us. all in chris hays starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. tonight on all in, there are a few places in this world where when a baby's born a child's path is all but determined. one of those places would be behind this door in london. another would be in any of the dark areas of this map. we're going to talk about both of those places tonight. if i gave you 435 guesses, i wonder if you could name the congress person being called the most effective representative. that representative wille