relax. have a cream soda from midnight run before i put this phone through your head. dennis farina, rest in peace. 69 years old. now time for "morning joe.". now "morning joe." king richard ii, william shakespeare wrote, "this blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this england, this nurse, this teeming womb of royal kings famous by their birth." yesterday into the realm, another king certainly if lineage plays its proper role was born in london yesterday afternoon, and that took me, and i've had a lot of other people back 31 years to the day his father was born to princess diana. william was born to a much different time and in a much different royal family. but mika, the line continues unbroken today.

>> yes, it does. and we're looking at pictures from london where people have been celebrating for almost 24 hours now. any minute now, we're going to get the first look at the newest member of the royal family. the duchess of cambridge gave birth to a healthy baby boy yesterday. he is now third in line to the throne. prince william was at her side, and we're still waiting to hear the name of the future king. joe, this is a huge moment for the united kingdom that's being celebrated around the world. i heard people all over town talking about it yesterday. did she have the baby? did she have the baby? and now the day is here. big day. we're following everything here. we're going to dig into the archives of royal history with a special focus on princess diana. we'll discuss how she shaped the lives of prince william and prince harry and how her influence now lives on to the next generation. and with us this morning, editor in chief of the daily beast, tina brown.

msnbc's martin bashir. nbc british historian dr. andrew roberts. and nbc's jim maceda live outside st. mary's hospital in london where we're waiting for that shot of the family of three now. but first, nbc's chris jansing recaps the big day. >> reporter: the cheers echoed across the grounds of buckingham palace. >> it's a boy! >> reporter: a boy born at 4:24 p.m. 8 pounds, 6 ounces. the official word came from st. mary's hospital carried by card to buckingham palace where it was posted on an easel that once announced prince william's birth. >> o yea, o yea! >> reporter: unique celebrations because what had been dubbed the great kate wait was finally over. >> congratulations! >> proud to be british, absolutely. it's amazing. >> reporter: queen elizabeth came home to buckingham palace

from her castle in windsor and said she was delighted, as were other british leaders. >> it is an important moment in the life of our nation, but i suppose above all, it's a wonderful moment for a warm and loving couple who have got a brand-new baby boy. >> reporter: new grandfather, prince charles, said he was overjoyed after a day in york 200 miles north of london where he got a present. >> this is for the baby. >> right. i'll see what i can do. >> reporter: brits woke occupy to find out that kate had gone to the hospital. >> if you're just waking up really, really exciting news. >> reporter: but william and kate arrived so stealthily, none of the scores of photographers who camped out for days got them going in the back entrance. >> no one wants to be photographed mid-contraction. they did it cleverly and switched cars. >> reporter: joined by curious brits. this woman was so excited, she baked a cake and traveled five hours to be here. >> i got a taxi. i got a coach. i got a train.

i got a tube. >> it really gives the whole country a bit of a boost. >> reporter: when william was born in 1982, the obstetrician reported he cried lustily. this time no additional details from the doctors after more than ten hours of labor. of course, it's called labor for a reason. but the lindo wing definitely makes the best of it. georgy delivered her boys there. >> you have a special menu, you can choose from what you would like, lobster to whatever. champagne. >> reporter: and what will the new prince be named? >> george. the regal george, very, very popular. several large three, even a four-figure bet. >> reporter: and it's a good bet that many are raising a pint to the british king. >> jim maceda with, okay, you've got that door behind you because i guess that's the next big event, correct? >> reporter: that is correct. and there's still no sign yet of the new royal family, mika,

coming out of that door, the lindo maternity ward of st. mary's hospital, but there is every reason to believe now, not the least of which is the fact that kate's hairdresser arrived a little while ago. also we've been briefed that we would get a 30 to 60-minute warning. that warning hasn't come yet. but the fact that they're giving that information suggests that we're very close. now, kate, she recovered overnight in this hospital from what turned out to be a very healthy and normal birth. she will be very keen to go home and not see the likes of us for some time. probably going to kensington palace first, then on to her parents' home in berkshire. now, despite the thundershowers overnight, the joy and excitement here, it really it palpable. br britons still lining up to see that official announcement that was put there early yesterday evening. now, there was a general sense. you talked to people before the

birth that it would be a girl. and that's perhaps why the headlines today in many british papers have a familiar theme on, "it's a boy!" "the daily telegraph." "daily mail," "oh, boy," from prince charles. "the sun" newspaper, tina will appreciate this, spelled s-o-n instead of s-u-n in honor of the new royal family member. but we expect to see a number of things happen now. when they do leave, and not the least of which, peeling of bells at westminster abbey, 62-gun salute. i've never seen that even in afghanistan. 41 guns in another. the main event, of course, is the money shot that all of these snappers around me are waiting for when william, kate and the baby make that appearance just as joe said, 31 years ago, the father and mother of wills and

william as a baby did on those very same steps. it will be the first time the world will see the future king. back to you. >> all right. jim maceda live in london, thanks. joe. >> thank you so much, jim. so tina brown, we are talking about 31 years ago when william was born. and so much has changed. this royal family has been through such a tumultuous times, the hidden tapes, the three people in a marriage, on and on. the queen herself. i mean, taking a terrible fall from grace after diana's tragic death. and yet today here we are 31 years later, it seems like diana's boys have helped clean up the mess. >> they really have. it's an extraordinary kind of circle that we've seen, as you said, and it's remarkable in such a short time that the whole thing has become rebranded again. i mean, there really was, you

know, 15, to years there of marital mayhem, sleaze, listening in to tapes, embarrassing revelations, all of this stuff was really, really cheesy for a long time. and then as soon as william really kind of emerged into the public eye, you had this wholesome prince and his choice of kate middleton turns out to be absolutely impeccable. i mean, once again, she does the perfect thing. although there's the constitutional change that we can now have a girl as a firstborn to be the monarch, nonetheless, she does the traditional thing, and she gives us a prince. she gives a king. i mean, let's face it, the queen will be thrilled. she and the duke of edinboro, much as they would have said they would have been fine with a girl, they really did want a boy, and they got one. >> you look at the influence of princess diana in here, and you see it in just how wonderfully these boys have turned out. and andrew, we'd love to bring you in just historically speaking what this means for the next generation as we welcome

yet the third, i guess, third in line to the throne here in the uk. >> that's right. and this baby could actually take us into the 22nd century, if the little boy has got the same longevity as his great grandmother and his great great grandmother. the queen mother was 101 years old when she died. this is a child that could take the monarchy into a new chapter in the next century. >> you know, martin, and you can answer this as well, tina, about diana. i can't help but thinking as we look at those steps, that iconic image of die ana and charles coming down the stairs. >> in that green spotted dress. >> in that green spotted dress. >> what's interesting is princess catherine is 31. diana was 20. she had, as we now know, a very difficult adolescence. she had a difficult childhood. her parents separated and then

subsequently divorced. she wasn't very happy at school. she developed anorexia nervosa and bulimia as an adolescent. she then got married. and all of a sudden she was exposed to this extraordinary attention without any of the controls that you're witnessing today because this whole event is being choreographed on the basis of everything that the royal family learned from the princess of wales, diana. >> the mistakes they made. >> absolutely. the exposure. the fact that when diana was announced as the fiancee of the prince of wales, she went back to working at the nursery followed by 300 photographers. >> it was brutal, really. >> it was brutal. >> what she went through. >> what you're seeing is both the royal family, to joe's point, evolving, what tina was saying about that -- what the queen referred to as that period between 1996 and '98 when the prince and princess of wales were divorced.

when hampton court palace burned and was damaged severely and she was heartbroken at that. and then, of course, diana's death in '97 which resulted in a lot of criticism. and at that point, some of the public polling even suggested that the british public were less inclined to favor the monarchy. >> i'm so sorry, it was actually windsor castle that burned down. the monarchy had become so unpopular that the public didn't even want to fund the repairs because she was so unpopular. >> right. and that all contributed to that sense in which there was this terrible depression and sense of negativity towards the royal family. but since, as tina said, william has come of age, all of the public polling has averaged between 77% and 82% of the british population in favor of retaining the monarchy. >> absolutely. and you know, after diana's death, it's interesting, the closest people in the queen's circle have told me that they refer to those events after her

death when the public showed their rough about the royal family in those crowds and so on after diana. they called it the revolution privately. and they think of everything they did subsequently was about correcting what they did wrong, as you rightly say, martin, about what they did with diana. they know they blew it, and they have really managed the whole emergence of kate even to the point of allowing him to take a long time to marry her because they knew it had to be solid. it could not be another one. >> and there were differences for sure for the first time ever, this young woman was not so young when they got married. she is fully educated. they lived together. >> absolutely. >> they're much more modern, to an extent, and cutting through the tabloid stuff of the past 20 years, what is this baby's place in history, and why do you think his name will be james? go there. go out on a limb. >> i have this little instinct that i can imagine a prince jimmy. something that -- somehow william and kate would like. it's amazing to think what this baby -- when it will come of

age, you know, as andrew was saying. if you say 2050, what will that country look like? i mean, it's hard to imagine that the $37 million or whatever it is that the queen gets to dole out to her relations will be allowed. i mean, the whole idea that you pay for your relations and so on, which she herself is now doing, i can't imagine that being allowed. you know, i can even imagine the next royal baby, you know, it's born as a reality show on television. who knows? i certainly hope not. >> apparently willie was telling me that there was a formulation of reality television on one particular network which featured a mother in contractions at the same time as princess catherine. >> there was -- i think it was on cnn, i believe. it was a report from a medical correspondent. it wasn't live, in fairness. >> oh, i'm sorry. oh, i thought it was simultaneous. >> it was a piece about what it's like to go through labor in great britain and how it's different in america. >> she was taking laughing gas.

andrew roberts, if i could, the value of the royal family, i mean, since -- what is it that sort of brings it now to the forefront again? we can talk about the economics of this, but also to the history. >> well, the genius of the institution is precisely that, every single generation, it can regenerate itself. the finances are very straightforward. they cost the british taxpayer $1 a year each. that is it. and they bring in billions. so financially, it is a win-win for britain. and as far as the future is concerned, well, the very fact that we have, for the first time since 1901, four generations of monarchs all living together at the same time, it just shows the continuity of this fantastic 1,000-year-old institution. >> we'll take a look at that from a number of different angles coming up on "morning joe." how diana's legacy lives on.

we're going to look at the life of the people's princess and how her values will shape the next future king. plus an update on the emergency landing at new york's laguardia airport where a passenger jet touches down without its nose gear. where the investigation stands at this moment. plus, a shocking report from out of iraq where more than 50 on inmates including senior members of al qaeda managed to escape from abu ghraib prison. we'll have the latest on that. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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nbc's reporting on this. >> reporter: with all of the excitement this royal baby brings, there's, of course, one person who isn't here to celebrate with william and kate. >> i would loved to have met her. and she's obviously -- she's an inspirational woman to look up to. >> reporter: diana would have turned 52 on july 1st. quite young for a grandmother. but even in her absence, she will have a profound influence on this new baby. as princess of wales, she broke the mold for royal motherhood. >> diana was very much a part of her kids' lives. >> reporter: suzanne that lipscomb is an historian of the monarchy. >> it seems william has learned from his mother, diana, and is trying to reflect her sense of how to be a good parent rather than the historic sense that comes from his grandmother. >> reporter: back in 1981 after dazzling the world with their own majestic royal wedding,

prince charles and princess diana faced the same anticipation that william and kate have experienced. that pressure to produce the next heir to the throne. then just three months after their marriage, buckingham palace announced that the princess was pregnant. but she found that having a child in the windsor family wasn't so simple. for centuries, royal babies had been born inside the palace, surrounded by members of the royal court but not the father-to-be. >> when queen elizabeth gave birth to her two first children, she was without her husband. and she wasn't in hospital. he was off playing squash. and it wasn't the royal way to go into hospital. >> reporter: that royal way wasn't diana's way. so she broke protocol and headed to st. mary's in london. that's when a new tradition was born. >> diana was the first woman to go into hospital to have her

son, william. and she was the first one to have her husband at her side. >> reporter: it was june 21st, 1981. a crowd gathered outside st. mary's, waiting for the big news, including press corps photographer arthur edwards. take me back to the day prince william was born. what do you remember? >> it was a rainy day, a miserable day. and i remember when prince charles, when he came out of the hospital just after william had been born, about 10:positi30 at, he was so excited. he was unbelievably happy. >> he's in marvelous form. >> does the baby have any hair? >> yes. fair. >> fair hair. >> sort of blondish. >> reporter: as they left the doorstep of st. mary's, the royal couple proudly displayed their son for the cameras. prince william's arrival back in 1982 was cause for celebration across the united kingdom as well as a bit of humor when queen elizabeth first saw her

grandson, she reportedly quipped, "thank goodness he hasn't ears like his father." despite his stodgy image, prince charles actually took an active role as a new dad in those early days. andrew morton wrote the headline-making biography "diana: her true story." >> after william's birth, he gave up royal duties. he was busy changing the nappy, getting in the tub with william at bathtime, you know, rather than neglecting his guard in the high grove. >> reporter: but behind palace walls, diana and her older, more conservative husband clashed over certain aspects of their son's upbringing. >> diana really found herself as a woman by becoming a mother because she then felt able to be more assertive. and the first choice was in the baby's name. prince charles wanted arthur. she wanted william. and guess who won? >> reporter: she was also

determined not to let royal duties get in the way of her parenting. when prince charles was a young boy, he rarely saw his mother and father. >> the queen and prince philip went away for six months to new zealand and australia. this time when charles was 3 years old. it's almost unimaginable to us, that separation at a crucial age of charles's life. >> reporter: diana would have none of that. so she and prince charles took william on their royal tour to new zealand and australia when he was just 9 months old. >> and we had these great pictures of him crawling in -- >> crawling up to charles's lap, there's one where he's looking up at his father. it's an amazing shot. >> this was in new zealand. and they gave him a little toy, a little bee. i went back with them in new zealand in 20 05. i said, i photographed you on a rug. >> he said yeah, and i p up that toy bee in my room to remind me of it. >> reporter: and we could see a sequel. william and kate are expected to travel to australia and new

zealand next year. and they just might bring baby on board. it's all in keeping with their desire to be hands-on parents, even if it means breaking the royal rules like william's mom. >> up until diana, royal babies were cared for by a range of different people that would be on hand. and so there was a way in which mother and baby felt somewhat detached. but with diana, there was a desire to keep william by her side. >> reporter: so when prince charles wanted to bring on his longtime nanny, diana stood her ground and hired her own. >> she had nannies for her children, but there was a pecking order. diana was number one, or chief chick, as she used to call herself, and everybody else just had to kind of waddle around. >> i remember once at the polo, one of the -- william, it was, he rushed too near the edge

where the horses were, and the nanny scolded him. his face broke out into tears. he ran to his mother and she hugged him and smoothed his hair and calmed him down. >> reporter: diana was a deeply protective mom, but she knew the press was always eager for pictures. as she and charles took william on a stroll, the little prince was just starting to see his future. >> camera. camera. >> reporter: living in that royal fishbowl. >> that. >> reporter: thanks to the trail his grandmother, diana, blazed in the raising of her two sons, new doors will now open for william and kate as they enter royal parenthood. >> i can only imagine that they're going to carry on that legacy. >> reporter: nbc news royal contributor camilla tominy. >> william knows he benefited from his mother's insistence, that he had a normal childhood as possible. why wouldn't he replicate that for his own children? >> reporter: even though she knew she was raising her boy to

be king, diana was determined to expose her son to a world beyond the royal household. >> what you saw in diana was a very modern mother within, you know, the royal family setup. >> so interesting. we lived through that whole thing. when you look at the issue with the nanny, that's tense. >> that was very tense. prince charles had this lagubrious wish. and she was an old-fashioned runner of the nursery. diana fired her right off the bat and hired her friend's nanny, barbara barnes. but she really was the first caregiver. it's absolutely true. what's great about her is she was able to give her children a modern, contemporary, fun childhood. the images of her going down a water slide together with william and the children or just going to movies, eating popcorn. doing the kind of contemporary, modern things. she didn't want her children to

be -- she wanted her kids to be oshkosh kids, whereas prince charles was an edwardian prince. she was 30 going on 60 when he married diana. he was always sort of old in his affect because he was raised as a little old man. >> martin, that picture of the little boy looking at the cameras. >> i think it's interesting because i think when we see the new prince come out of the doors of the lindo wing at st. mary's today, we should all feast on that image because i don't think we're going to see very much of this child. i think that william's dislike of the media is very well known. and i think what we will see is a few very carefully choreographed and controlled moments. i don't think there's going to be anything like the images that we've just been watching of the children playing in the garden at kensington palace or appearing before the cameras in that open filming setting. i just don't think that's going

to happen. >> william's been obviously impacted by the media in every way, in some of the worst ways. and i would say -- i would hope that the media will correct a little bit. >> well, the other thing about this story is not just william's dislike of the media through his mother's experience and kate's willingness to be private, it's also the case that the media in britain has been humbled by the phone-hacking scandal. it's worth remembering that the phone-hacking scandal began because someone intercepted a text message on prince william's phone about a knee injury that he had, and it was traced back to the royal editor of "the news of the world" newspaper. and that was what provoked the entire hacking scandal that led to that newspaper closing down. and so i think that combination of factors -- >> and the death of diana? >> indeed. >> i mean, my god. >> all those tapes and so on of diana, i believe, you know, if one reinvestigated that, you'd

discover that it was about phone hacking. as you look back, there's a lot of interesting thoughts about that in terms of how long that phone hacking went on. >> sure. much more on all of this ahead. coming up, what new poll numbers tell us about liz cheney's run for the u.s. senate in wyoming. plus, ryan braun is suspended for the rest of the season. how the former mvp reacted to the news and what it could mean for alex rodriguez and others. "morning joe" will be right back. sfx: oil gushing out of pipe. sfx: birds chirping.

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welcome back to "morning joe." 32 past the hour. other news to cover this morning, a lot of headlines here. crews this morning are using cranes to remove a southwest airlines plane whose landing gear malfunctioned at new york's laguardia airport. the plane skidded for about 3,500 feet before coming to a complete stop at a grassy area about halfway down the runway. passengers on the flight from nashville evacuated the plane on emergency chutes shortly after the bumpy landing. the plane was carrying 150 passengers and crew. ten people were treated by medical staff on location. six passengers and at least three crew members were transported to a nearby hospital for back and neck pain.

airline officials cannot say exactly what caused the landing gear to collapse, but they are investigating. george zimmerman is being credited to helping rescue four people including two children from an overturned suv. officials say the former neighborhood watchman who was acquitted earlier this month of murder charges in the death of trayvon martin helped pull the group to safety from the side of a florida highway. zimmerman apparently did not witness the crash but was able to assist the people before he arrived. he's kept a low profile since the murder case against him came to a close. hundreds of prisoners including a number of senior al qaeda members are on the loose today after an assault on iraq's abu ghraib jail. late sunday night a group of suicide bombers drove cars filled with explosives into the gates of the prison, breaching the exterior perimeter as gunmen attacked guards with rocket-propelled grenades. the guards were unable to regain control of the prison until military helicopters arrived to provide aerial support. ten policemen and four militants

were killed during the assault. so far no group has claimed responsibility for the attack. and a little politics now. new numbers from wyoming suggest it is an uphill battle for liz cheney in her bid for the united states senate. public policy polling sent out a tweet reading, quote, this. "only 31% of wyoming voters consider liz cheney to be a wyomingite." over the weekend a separate tweet read, "based on our enzi/cheney numbers so far, i think the harper poll might have been a little charitable to cheney. #bloodbath." senator mike enzi leading by more than positive points. joe, what do you think? >> that's why they have campaigns. nobody would believe for a moment that liz cheney, with her family contacts and all the people she knows in politics, would run in a campaign blind. she has to know and had to know going in that she was going to be way down. she is way down.

and that's why there are political campaigns. she has a story to tell, and she has over a year to tell it, so we'll see what happens. we'll see if she can move those numbers. other politics we'll get to a little later, but right now it's time for sports with willie geist. willie. >> big story in the sports world. performance enhancing drugs topping the headlines. major league baseball has suspended brewers' outfielder ryan braun, one of the great stars of the league over the last several years. he's out now for the rest of the season. that's 65 games, more than $3 million in salary. braun will not appeal the suspension. it's a change of heart for braun who about a year and a half ago fought and won an appeal to a different suspension. >> if i had done this intentionally or unintentionally, i'd be the first one to step up and say, i did it. by no means am i perfect. but if i've ever made any mistakes in my life, i've taken responsibility for my actions. i truly believe in my heart, and i would bet my life that this substance never entered my body at any point. >> that was braun in february of

2012 after he won his appeal to a different suspension. the new decision comes amid reports of the 2011 national league mvp's involvement with biogenesis, calling itself an anti-aging clinic in south florida. it's accused of drblting banned performance enhancing drugs to a number of major league baseball players. the league did not release specifics of braun's conduct that led to the suspension. joe, this is a big deal. it's not just that he tested positive and then won the appeal and now is associated with biogenesis. it's the way he handled it. sort of lance armstrong style, which is to say that when he was accused, when he tested positive, he attacked this guy, dino lorenzo jr. who collected the sample, assailed his character, took him down, and now it turns out this is a full admission of guilt from one of the game's great players. >> well, and willie, he lied. he not only lied to baseball fans, he lied to people of milwaukee straight to their

face. the great baseball fans up in milwaukee. this is a terrible day for them. but now you've got to put him in, you know, the category along with barry bonds and along with roger clemens. and these other people, palmeiro, these other people that came out and denied it so aggressively that you knew that if they were caught lying, it would just shatter their reputation. his reputation is shattered, and it should be. it is a real disappointment. again, not only for the fans of milwaukee but for all baseball fans. he was seen as a good buy and boy, somebody that was really positive -- had a positive influence on the game. now, last night on espn, willie, a lot of people were talking about a-rod and what this means for a-rod and that it's not good news. some are suggesting that a-rod was even more involved than braun. and so we can expect something pretty big coming down for a-rod. just speculation. but that certainly is the talk right now.

>> yeah, remember, espn had that report a couple months ago. there could be something like 100 games. it turned out to be 65 for ryan braun. he had a meeting last month with major league baseball where they worked out the deal we learned about yesterday. a-rod also had a meeting a few weeks ago with major league baseball. so you would expect something coming down the pike. a-rod is injured. if he's suspended for the rest of the year, we could potentially be looking at the end of the career of alex rodriguez, a career which began with so much promise. it looked like he might run the all-time home run title. he certainly was one of the greatest players of all time and a great downfall since all the suspicion of steroids. we don't know if he'll be suspended yet, but we'll see what mlb has in order for him. >> when we're talking about the yankees, don't you have to go back to andy pettitte to look at how this guy handled it correctly? everybody says everybody does it, we just live in the age of

steroids. a lot of players do it. when andy pettitte was caught, he said yeah, i did it, i had an swrof season injury. i took something to heal faster. nobody faulted the guy at all for it. and you look at ryan braun and a-rod and all of these other clowns. it's just unfortunate they didn't go the pettitte way. >> yeah. well, they parse words. they play semantic games. and in the case of braun, he denied it over and over. and so aggressively. he came out in that sound bite we showed earlier, that same press conference, he said "major league baseball's testing system is, quote, fatally flawed. they've made a huge error that's taken me down and hurt my character and cost me money." well, it turned out all the while he was taking performance enhancing drugs, it looks like, and at the same time shooting down everyone around him who accused him. >> he said he'd bet his life that nothing ever entered his system. that's quite a bit, ryan. >> same thing with lance armstrong. it's arrogance is what it is.

still ahead this hour, author, columnist tom friedman will join our conversation. and up next, marc morial will talk about the group's annual conference plus the growing number of musicians who are now boycotting florida over the state's controversial stand your ground law. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. want to save on electricity? don't use it. live like they did long ago. or just turn off the lights when you leave a room. you can conserve energy wisely. the more you know.

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[ tap ] ♪ 'cause tonight [ tap ] ♪ we'll share the same dream ♪ ♪ at the dark end of the street ♪ ♪ ♪ you and me ♪ you and me ♪ you and me ♪ ♪ i'm no stranger 44 past the hour. joining us now from philadelphia, the president and ceo of the national urban league, marc morial. tomorrow the national urban league kicks off their annual conference in philly which will focus on economic impairment,

civil rights and education reform. obviously, the main components, marc, of the conversation about race that has certainly boiled over in the wake of the trayvon martin verdict. i take it stand your ground will be a big issue there. how do you plan to take the conversation and move it forward on stand your ground? >> yeah, first of all, good morning, mika. we will be discussing many of the underlying issues i think that really are tied to sort of the outrage since the trayvon martin verdict. and i think the outrage since the supreme court's decision in the voting rights case, so we'll be discussing economic empowerment, jobs, youth development, education. but what's more important about our conference is what we'll be doing. we've got 500 young people from around the nation here for a youth summit at temple university. we have a career fair and jobs fair that will bring probably in excess of 100 employers here who

want to connect with people who are looking for work. and then we've got our big small business summit. so we're doing some things that i think are important. the discussion is what we're doing. marc, let's get back to the stand your ground question, though, because it's very important. it's taken center stage since the verdict. actually, since the shooting. do you oppose stand your ground laws? >> stand your ground law should be repealed. it alters the law of self-defense in a way that isn't helpful to what i would call public safety and crime prevention. they are not good laws. and for a long time, we had classic self-defense laws on the books. then the american legislative exchange council showed up in partnership with the nra and pushed states across the nation to pass stand your ground legislation. they should be repealed. i don't think they're helpful. and i was encouraged by john mccain's comments yesterday. >> so do you agree with stevie wonder and other musicians who are actually boycotting florida

because they don't like the stand your ground law? >> joe, i'm not prepared to go there at this point in time. we want to keep the focus on the repeal of the law, but i can tell you that there will be people across the nation. you've got students in tallahassee who are protesting. you've got musicians who are talking about boycotting. but what we want to focus on is why stand your ground laws are not good, and they're not helpful to public safety. and they create conflict. >> i don't necessarily disagree. i want to keep it, then, in the political spectrum because look at "the wall street journal" which points out something pretty important, given the grand scheme of the conversation. "stand whose ground? in his remarks last friday, the president said it would be wise to examine state and local laws governing the use of firearms in self-defense. he suggested that stand your ground provisions are sending a message that someone who is armed potentially has the right to use those firearms even if there's a way for them to exit

from a situation. he asked, is that really going to be krktdi icontributing to t of peace and security and order that we'd like to see? it turns out that mr. obama participated in such an examination almost a decade ago and emerged as a stand your ground proponent. illinois review, a conservative blog, recently unearthed illinois senate records showing that then-state senator obama voted for and even co-sponsored a 2004 bill that expanded the protection of the state's 1961 stand your ground law to include immunity from civil likability for people who use deadly force to defend themselves or their property. the bill wasn't controversial in the liberal legislature, passing the senate without dissent and the state house with only two nays before then governor rod blagojevich, also a democrat, signed it." and joe, there's also, you know, statistics out of florida, i believe, that show that minorities in some ways have been on the benefiting side of stand your ground.

it's complicated. politically, especially. >> you know, i'd say this. a wise man changes a full never. and whether this legislation may have been placed on the books in well-meaning legislators may have voted for it sometime ago doesn't mean that in light of how it's been utilized, in light of its application, that it's not time to review it. if the goal is public safety and if the goal is to try to create communities across the nation where people are not at odds with each other, communities across the nation where one can be the aggressor in a fight and then turn around and claim stand your ground self-defense. it's helpful. it's important to have that reexamination. no law is fixed in stone till the end of time. >> tina brown, obviously, though, there are a lot of inconsistencies here. i'm sure many would love to hear the president come out, explaining why he supported the stand your ground laws in 2004, co-sponsored and voted for it in

illinois. but also, you look at all of these musicians led by stevie wonder who are now boycotting the state of florida because of their stand your ground law. i'm wondering, are they going to boycott the other 20 or 25 states across america that have the identical law? they're not going to be playing in a lot of states if they're consistent. >> no, but at the same time, at least -- it's a way of protest. i mean, i actually think that after this terrible summer of disappointment for african-americans, first of all, with the setback with the supreme court and then this, there has to be some sense of protest and energy behind it. and i'm actually quite surprised at, in a way, the kind of small level of protest over the trayvon martin verdict. it's been subdued. it's been pretty well-mannered. i think there's a tremendous, crushing disappointment. i was talking to jesse jackson before the verdict, and he had such a sense of disappointment about what has been happening for the african-american community. i think it's good that they're making this protest. i like it.

and i hope that they continue. >> marc morial, thank you so much. >> thanks for having me in. >> good luck with the conference this week. >> come on down. come see us. >> we'll do that. tina, thank you as well. great to have you here today. up next, a dog in danger. what would you do if a rack cco were attacking your pet? will willie's "news you can't use" is next.

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is it time, willie? >> that was a slow wipe through there. >> that was amazing. that was dramatic. >> "news you can't use." let's talk royal baby name odds, shall we? martin has his guess. >> i'm saying louis. >> those of you who put your money on george, i have a prince george in my own family. 2-1 there. james, 4-1. alexander, 7-1. louis 12-1. henry, 12-1. what say you? >> i've already lost 100 pounds because we were betting on a female. >> that was the coin toss. >> that was a disaster. i think george is likely to be included in the names. i have a suspicion that william will include or want to include his grandfather, philip, as

well. >> ah. that's a good guess. >> and also, i think there might be a reference to prince charles's uncle, louie, who was a great, close supporter of charles and friend of the family. so i think louie might be in there. george. >> all of these very possible. >> who knows? >> very possible. all these very possible. willie -- >> is that it? >> i put my money clodown on cledus. >> cledus. off the board for cledus. >> or chester. >> i like a gary or carl or something like that. >> it's going to be louis. >> hey, willie. >> yes, sir? >> do you have any stories about raccoons going down staircases? >> sure, i do, i think. >> i give up. >> this is "news you can't use." >> here's what happened the other day. just go to the thing here. we'll go to the video here. it's going to be great. roll the video. there it is. >> what the heck? what?

>> this is kevin rose. he heard his dog, toaster, whimpering outside, found a raccoon attacking his dog. he chucked it down the stairs. >> good. >> toaster was a-ok. a couple bites, a few scratches. but rose is getting flak, you guessed it, from animal activists. >> look at the raccoon. >> who say he should have been more kind and gentle to the raccoon. >> yeah, really? seriously? i would have done exactly the same thing. you grab it by the neck. you hold it tight. yeah. >> oh, my gosh! >> and that way the animal is shocked and doesn't attack you. and if you really, really snap its neck good, then you will not have any more problems. >> mika means it, too. mika's been there. >> yeah. if you're going to deal with animals that are in a wild swas, you ha situation, you have to be very clear with your actions. no pussy-footing around in these situations.

>> martin, welcome to "morning joe." this is how we do it. >> you got any more raccoons? call me right here. >> martin, this isn't violence towards animals. sometimes you have to burn the village to save the village. in this case, you've got to hurt an animal to save an animal. >> my grandmother used to put them in a garbage can. >> we won't apologize for that, but we will apologize for everything mika's family has done to animalkind over the past five centuries. >> well, they got into her house. >> exactly. >> raccoon always lands on its feet. >> they're savage beasts. coming up, steve rattner joins the table. neil shaean is live in london covering the royal baby news. we're expecting to see this bundle of joy shortly. "morning joe" back in a moment. members of the american postal worker's union

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♪ top of the hour. and we're looking at the next moment in royal history about to happen here. good morning, everyone. it is tuesday, july 23rd. any minute now, we're going to get the first look at the newest member of the royal family. the duchess of cambridge gave birth to a healthy baby boy yesterday. he's now third in line to the throne. prince william was at her side at the time of the delivery. we're still waiting to learn the name of the future king, although martin bashir has said

it might be louis. >> no, louis would be included in the name. >> oh, good god. >> we're expecting george, louis or philip. >> aside from that, this is a huge moment for the united kingdom that's really being celebrated across the world. with us this morning, we have former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner. you have charts on the baby? is that what you're telling me? >> we have some charts on the baby. royal charts. >> well, this is different. and from london, royal watcher neil sean and martin bashir still with us. first, a report from "dateline" nbc on the future of the monarchy. >> reporter: he and kate are now the torchbearers for a new era of change in the house of windsor. >> they're blossoming now and coming into their roles. it's the beginning of their new royal lives. >> i don't think that you could design a better princess or ambassador for brand uk. and for the royal family than this middle-class girl, kate

middleton, who now looks like the combination of a royal princess and a hollywood superstar. >> reporter: and while it could be years before william succeeds his father as king, he and kate are now the fresh faces of this 1,000-year-old institution. are you seeing a passing of the torch? is this sort of the next generation now? >> it does feel like the sun is beginning to set. i think the queen probably does need to step back a little bit. and we also have, you know, these bright young things. william, kate and harry all ready to do their thing. and we've already seen that with royal tours in the far east, from william and kate and from harry out in the united states. >> reporter: 20 years ago the british monarchy's popularity was at an all-time low as prince charles and diana had separated. and windsor castle went up in flames. it seemed like the house of windsor might have to close up shop. that's all a distant memory now.

>> the queen has never been so popular. and really it's fascinating that william and catherine are the most popular royal couple, and catherine seen as one of the most influential women in the world. >> reporter: so the future couldn't be brighter for a baby born to this couple. >> the baby's going to enter a monarchy which is very secure. very popular. >> we love kate! >> probably more popular than it's been for 100 years. and very slim pickings for tabloid journalists these days. >> reporter: the new baby is new hope. >> the new baby -- and a bright future. and, you know, it's wonderful. it's absolutely wonderful. >> joe, take it away. >> so neil -- yeah -- neil, let's talk about what's been going on over in london over the past couple of days. there is a sense of joy that obviously we haven't seen around the royal family in quite some

time. they did go through a terrible, terrible time in the 1990s. but you really sense that all these trials by fire have just made the family even stronger. the queen who actually saw her popularity dip after diana's death, now more popular than ever. charles doing better. and of course, these children of diana couldn't be more popular. >> well, you know, absolutely. they're incredibly popular right now. but what's interesting is -- and i'm sure if you've been to england, you'll know what we're like -- we tend to be quite, oh, we're not really foster and all that sort of stuff. the minute this new, exciting royal news, we're there like flies. as you saw from the pictures of buckingham palace last night, the party went on all night. there is a real buzz, actually, in the city. just the fact that, you know, i don't know, there's a sense of optimism, that sort of thing, positivity, if you like. and more importantly, of course, they've brought a lot of money into the country in these last -- just these last couple

of weeks. and will continue to do so. so the royals, if you like, remind me anyway of an '80s soap opera, "knots landing" all rolled into one. we need it to keep going on. and as i said, they're good for business, definitely. >> martin bashir, not so good, though, for tabloid business, are they? as far as the long run goes, it's been mainly positive news. you even look at some of this fawning press, and that's quite a surprise for us americans who look from afar and see the tabloids of the past, at least, used to tear the royals to shreds. >> i think that's a slight exaggeration. the royal family provided plenty of material for journalists to excavate and report on. and some of that involved unfaithfulness, marital infidelity and all kinds of shenanigans. prince andrew himself has been accused of all kinds of financial activities involving families in lithuania and the

ukraine. >> see, now you're doing it, martin. see, it's instinctive, isn't it? >> this was reported on by journalists because of the actions of the royal family. i think the significant mainstay has been her majesty, the queen. and her commitment to duty and service has frankly trumped all of the wrongdoing. she has been unimpeachable in her character. she has served the country with enormous commitment and stability and steadfastness. and that's led to ultimately the royal family continuing to enjoy such high ratings amongst the british public because the scandals after a while have settled, and who's been left, but her majesty, the queen, stable and steadfast. >> so the economics -- >> of course -- yeah, mika, it's also led to the fact that charles probably won't be allowed to be king until he's about 97.

but rattner has charts. let's move on. >> yes. in fact, the economics of this would be the real baby bump here which you're going to get to in your charts on the little prince. >> charts on the little prince. let me just say also before that, though, i was a "new york times" correspondent in london both for diana's wedding and for the birth of prince william. and they were both remarkable events, as you know. i feel a bit like that was sort of a high point for the british monarchy when you had this young prince marrying this young girl. it was a fairy tale wedding, a fairy tale birth. i think while people are excited, i think there's a little bit of a douse of realism that at the end of the day, these are people. back then they were more like storybook figures. today they're people that have foi foibles, that make mistakes than what it was 20 years earlier. >> i think part of the appeal of diana particularly to americans was that her vulnerabilities were transparent. everybody could see the

difficulties. they knew about her marital problems. she talked in the interview that i conducted with her about her psychiatric illness which lasted for many years of her life. and i think that that truth telling by her distilled a lot of the fairy tale and the kind of romantic ideal that people had. these two are so much more realistic in the way that they're living. as mika was referring earlier, to the fact that catherine is so much older than diana. diana was to when she gave birth to william. this young woman is 31. and she's had a university education. princess of wales diana didn't. and so i think that that has had an effect but in a positive way. >> i agree with that. anyway, so to go to charts, you heard willie just at the end of the last hour talk about the most popular names. george is up there, i know. and i agree with you. i think louis is a real possibility. in britain, they bet on everything. not just names, but everything.

>> don't you in america? >> well, not legally. >> willie does. >> yes, we do. >> and i think you observed they got it wrong on the sex. they all thought it was going to be a girl. named alexandra, no less. so let's talk about a couple of the other odder bets that they make in britain where they are. here's a few of them. where is his first -- whatever his name is -- where is his first overseas visit going to be? the odds are for canada with australia as a close second. both probably the most important members of the commonwealth, of course. what university is he going to go to? most popular choice, st. andrews. >> oh, good lord. we're really looking down the line here. okay. >> and what's his first word going to be? papa followed by mama and after that comes nanny. >> very good. >> that's very similar to willie's household, you'll find. so you've been talking a lot

about the popularity of the monarchy over the course of the show. and yes, there have certainly been ups and downs. but one of the things i noted that's interesting when we were looking at these charts yesterday is how rock stable support for the monarchy has been throughout all this. plenty of ups and downs. but if you look at this chart, you can see that going all the way back to 1993 and continuing to the present, support for the monarchy has always been between 70% and 90% as opposed to doing away with the monarchy going to a republic. so the brits do love their monarchy, whatever they may say about it. they view as a cornerstone of their society and of their form of government and the support is strong and probably after that, you will see even more strength. now, one of the reasons that they may well be supportive of it is because it's an enormous contributor to the economic health of the country. and here's one estimate just for what the cost -- not the cost -- but what the benefit will be of this royal birth, potentially as much as $375 million spent on

various items from festivities to gifts to books and so on. but the broader point to remember is that tourism is britain's fifth biggest industry. tourism is britain's third biggest export. we don't think of tourism as an export, but anytime a foreigner goes to britain or any other country, those are foreign dollars that come in. that's an export. and so the whole panoply of british life and society and the royalty has been a big part of britain's economic success. >> neil sean, we'll go to you in a second, but martin has just called to our attention and confirmed the duke and duchess of cambridge have now thanked the staff at the hospital for the, quote, tremendous care the three of us have received indicating that their departure may be imminent. >> i believe it's imminent. >> back to the numbers here. andrew roberts was saying in our last hour that it's a misconception that the royals and the monarchy take so much taxpayer money out of great britain. in fact, the cost is very low to the taxpayer.

when you compare it to the return on tourism dollars and everything else, it's actually a great benefit. where does the truth lie in there in terms of the numbers? >> well, actually, they are a great ambassador, and they do bring in a lot of money. this friday, for instance, they're doing a press corps for the opening of buckingham palace. and the tickets for that are already virtually sold out. so, you know, as you can imagine on the back of this, it's great. it's great for business. and obviously, originally, if you recall, when it was put to the queen that she should open her home, as it were, she wasn't too keen, obviously, but then when they saw the money coming in, they thought, actually, this is not bad. and this year, they're very clever because they've got a cresh for the first time and also when they have tea and coffee, even the paper cups have got the year on them because everything becomes a memento, doesn't it. they know the value of themselves. and interestingly as well, just

over the last few weeks in the center of london when you go around all those tourist shops and things like that, we've seen a reemergence of princess diana on postcards, mugs, t-shirts, t-shirts, tea towels, that sort of thing. while the royal family may have tried to sideline her ever so slightly, she's still one of the most iconic and moneymaking things from the royal family, definitely. >> neil, thank you very much. martin bashir, thank you as well. >> pleasure. >> steve rattner, stay with us. those charts were scintillating. i liked that. >> mika, all the charts we've done, the royal family is scintillating. "new york times" columnist thomas friedman joins us conversation. also, richard wolffe is here in studio. plus, more than 500 i mates including senior members of al qaeda have escaped from abu ghraib. details on that straight ahead as well. first bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> up in bosboston, in between there and providence, heavy rain is on the way.

it's already exited new york city where the roads are plain old wet. from westchester into boston, heavy rain to deal with over the next hour, hour and a half. and then it will clear out. i tell you what, it is extremely humid in the east. it's not as hot. yesterday was only in the 80s, but it's still very humid. that's going to spark additional showers and storms. keep the umbrella handy. the midwest, you get relief. 79 degrees. that's a beautiful break from the summer heat. and tomorrow that front clears through new england for some great weather ahead. in washington, d.c., where it's been hot and humid, like, ten days in a row, your relief comes thursday. that should be a great day. sunshine and it's a fabulous forecast. one spot that's been raining this morning is over at buckingham palace. looks like showers have ended as we await the royal baby. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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19 past the hour. the legal wrangling over whether detroit can declare bankruptcy is just beginning. >> if these cuts go through, it will destroy my retirement. i have to try to find a full-time job with benefits that, you know, aren't in abundant supply. >> we are people that sacrifice our lives. we might not come home one day. so to look at us as a spreadsheet is to me un-american. >> a state judge has called for the withdrawal of the city's chapter 9 filing, saying it violates the state's constitution. last week city emergency managers filed for bankruptcy, convinced detroit had simply run out of options in reducing more than $18 billion in debt. unions representing retired police officers, firefighters and other public employees are trying to block the deal, fearing drastic cuts to their pensions.

a federal judge is set to hear the dispute tomorrow. we're going to talk about this in depth in just a moment. other news, crews this morning are using cranes to remove a southwest airlines plane whose landing gear malfunctioned at new york's laguardia airport. the plane skidded for about 3,500 feet before coming to a complete stop at a grassy area about halfway down the runway. passengers on the flight from nashville evacuated the plane on emergency chutes shortly after the bumpy landing. the plane was carrying 150 passengers and crew. ten people were treated by medical staff on location. six passengers and at least three crew members were transported to a nearby hospital for back and neck pain. airline officials cannot say exactly what caused the landing gear to collapse, but they are investigating. and then this out of iraq. hundreds of prisoners including a number of senior al qaeda members are on the loose today after an assault on iraq's abu ghraib jail. late sunday night, a group of suicide bombers drove cars filled with explosives into the

gates into the prison, breaching the exterior perimeter as gunmen attacked guards with rocket-propelled grenades. the guards were unable to regain control of the prison until military helicopters arrived to provide aerial support. ten policemen and four militants were killed during the assault. so far no group has claimed responsibility for the attack. let's bring in our next guest now, here with us now from washington, columnist from "the new york times," thomas friedman, who is the author of from "from beirut to jerusalem." also joining us on set, msnbc political analyst and vice president and check tif editor of msnbc.com, richard wolffe. and the host of "way too early," brian shactman. and my daughter is reading "the world is flat" for high school. her high school summer reading. she says thank you very much. >> tell her to call me if she needs help on a paper. >> i'm going to take you up on that. let's talk about detroit, could we? actually, our entire panel is perfect for this because obviously tensions are high on every level.

there are people who are worried about their pensions and their retirement money. and just the entire future of a city that has a history in this country. are we going to let it just go? what's going to happen? >> you know what's interesting, mika, really the bankruptcy, the tragedy in detroit is happening at a time when there's actually a renaissance of cities all over america. i've just been reading a great book on this, "the metropolitan revolution," that cities really are the one place in this country that work politically. you know, at a time when you've got paralysis at the national level, paralysis at the state level, you have cities that operate on a very pragmatic, problem-solving approach. those with dynamic mayors, denver, minneapolis, austin, my hometown, those who get their fundamentals right are thriving. i don't think there's any reason detroit cannot be fixed with the right kind of leadership. >> but through how much can the government do, and should washington step in like we've seen that before? rattner's written about this.

i mean, is there a clear path here? >> i don't know -- and steve's far more knowledgeable about this than i am -- the legal and economic ramifications, but, you know, i think that a farsighted government that understands that, you know, cities today have the great potential to be economic platforms to create a place where young people and particularly knowledge workers want to gather. there's no reason at a time when other parts of the state of michigan are thriving and getting this right, taking advantage of the new manufacturing revolution, that detroit, you know, cannot be fixed. >> steve. >> i agree with tom in principle, but i think we have to recognize a couple things. the hold detroit is in is vast and deep where they have these $18 billion of liabilities. bankruptcy really was their only option. there's going to have to be a lot of pain. the problem you have, without getting technical about it, is that the ways they have of reducing these liabilities put 8 80% of the costs onto the

workers and onto the retirees, and i think that's politically going to be very difficult. and secondly or thirdly, detroit needs a major reinvestment program. they have some investment money built into their new plan. i don't personally believe it's enough. i think there's such a deep hole. they've got a long way to dig out. and i think it's going to require significant help, not just self-help, but help from michigan, help from washington. but the last thing i'd say, tom, to echo your hopeful note, the state of michigan has more engineers than the other 49 states and canada put together. there is a lot of talent there. there are signs of a little bit of a renaissance in downtown detroit because, obviously, offices are cheap, and loft buildings are cheap. and i do see a few people, dan gilbert of quicken loans being the most notable, starting to move back into the center. so it's not without hope. but they are so far behind now in the process of adjusting their economy that i think it's going to require a lot more than what they can do on their own.

>> you know, and what dan gilbert has done is impressive. and he has a ton of real estate down there. he owns quicken loans. moved their headquarters there. a lot of venture capitalist money. you compare it to the auto bailout. i think this is the key. if the government gets involved, not only will you need incredibly imaginative urban planning, but there shouldn't be any expectation that they're going to get a return on their investment like they're going to get their money back from gm or they made money off of some of the financial bailout. they won't be able to sell more cars or get more revenue. some of this money needs to be an investment that you forget about it. if there's political willingness to do that, then they can get something done. >> first of all imagine what it would be like if the automotive industry completely collapsed. yes, for the public seconder to step in and restructure an entire city that's been in decline for many decades, the question is who has the capacity to do that right now? you know, the states stepped in with the emergency administrator.

he could only take it so far. and can washington, in its current state, really do something this dramatic? look at their trouble in restructuring new orleans, for instance. >> well, first of all, the state of michigan could take it further. snyder has chosen not to. he's a republican with a republican legislature. he's trying to make a statement that we don't do bailouts -- if you want to call it -- don't do bailouts. but he certainly has some money that he could put into this situation. washington did eventually pull its act together on sandy, which i have likened -- not a perfect comparison, but victims of another kind of disaster. we eventually pulled ourselves together and did something there. i see it as a test of whether you're going to help these 77 700,000 people. >> 700,000 people in a city that i think was supposed to house three times that at least. >> it did. >> and thomas friedman, what is it saying when a major american city in a location like detroit is filing for bankruptcy? i mean, we -- we've watched this

slide now for decades, but this is really bleak. >> this is a product of so many bad decisions. it goes back, i would argue, to the auto industry in the '70s and '80s. you had a series of detroit legislators at the national level, congressmen and senators, who protected detroit to death they protected it to death from global competition. and that's one of the things that eventually undermined the whole economy there. but, you know, in today's world, you fall behind much faster with bad leadership. but you catch up faster with bad leadership -- with good leadership, excuse me. and so, you know, to me that's really what it comes down to. i don't know what the right, you know, bailout package is and from whom or where. put somebody in charge with a vision of what a modern metropolitan area can be, which i think detroit hasn't had, and i see no reason why it can't dom ba come back. >> you look at the pictures -- and brian, you've spent time there -- it's a long road.

steve spp >> there's one other small element -- not small -- but tangenti tangential. we've talked guys talk a lot on the show the last few days about the president's speech about trayvon martin and about the need to be more inclusive and make sure that prosperity is more fair -- more shared. detroit is an 83% african-american city. and if we want to do something to help a group of our fellow citizens who have had a really tough time, detroit would be a good place to start. >> mika, if i could wish one thing for detroit, would be that google, apple, microsoft would announce tomorrow that they're going to make investments in the inner city there, that the university of michigan would open up an engineering, a science and technology facility. those kinds of moves -- again, this is not a cure-all. it's not instant, but that's how you start to bring a city back. >> you know, i was wondering, thomas, quickly, you know, with the twinkie story, they basically broke the union here. the benefits are getting broken

from a whole host of unions and union people. is that the only way, you've got to file bankruptcy and take benefits away from people who were promised things? is that the only way to fix these cities that get broken? >> i think the only solution is some kind of inclusive solution where everybody has to take, you know, part of the hit. and everybody has a potential to benefit from it if the program works out. and i think you've got -- everybody's got to be in on this. >> tom friedman, thank you so much. you'll be getting a call from a 17-year-old soon. questions, maybe quotes, cliff notes would be good. thank you. richard, stay with us if you can. >> sure. coming up, modern royalty. how prince william and the duchess of cambridge will adapt to the times, the challenges of dealing with the press and the lessons william learned from growing up in the spotlight. "morning joe" will be right back. [ dad ] so i walked into that dealer's office

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34 past the hour. a beautiful look at buckingham

palace as people there celebrate the birth of the royal baby. from queen elizabeth to the new royal heir, the monarchy is going through some significant changes. "dateline" nbc has this report on the changing face of modern royalty. >> reporter: william and kate are now set to use the lessons learned from his mother as the couple bring up their new child in their own way in a very different world. >> they want to be the sort of family that is as normal as normal can be when you're royalty. so they have a much more modern approach. >> william and kate are extremely private people. >> reporter: robert jobson is author of the book "the new royal family." >> they guard their privacy really tightly. ♪ so yes, they perform in public, and they do what they've got to do in public, but they don't really want to be exposed privately. >> reporter: since their wedding, the two have carved out

their own unique royal lives. dividing their time between london and this tiny welsh village where william has served as a helicopter rescue pilot in the royal air force. >> they're settled. >> reporter: longtime royal photographer arthur edwards has known william since he was born. >> when they got engaged and he was interviewed, and the interviewer asked him, can he cook? and he said, well, i can cook a bit. >> i get quite lazy from working because when i get home from work, it's the last thing i want to do. >> i've never, ever heard a member of the royal family, when i come home from a day's work. i thought that was refreshing to hear that. >> they were afforded this idyllic lifestyle of being able to enjoy the first couple of years of marriage completely away from the public gaze. cooking their own meals, going to cinema, walking their dog and generally being normal. >> reporter: it's been a peaceful existence, away from the prying eyes of the press and with just a handful of staff, unlike previous royals.

>> when prince charles was william's age, he had his own valet, he had a guy to squeeze his toothpaste on his toothbrush at night. he had detectives, he had butlers, a whole panoply of people. now, i think they've got a part-time housekeeper. and this is because they want to live as ordinary people. >> reporter: but with baby in tow, their quiet life is about to change. the prince is expected to end that job he loves soon to take on more royal duties full time in london. will that be a difficult transition for him? >> i think it probably will be a slightly difficult transition. he's been able to hide away in a true wilderness. angle did he sea is just about as remote in great britain as you can get. and i think suddenly coming back to london to a new very public life on a daily basis is going to be a little bit hard, i'd imagine. you know, he likes isolation and

being on his own and bracing walks. >> reporter: now he and kate will face even more challenges to their treasured privacy. from professional paparazzi and anyone else with a camera phone eager to tweet royal baby pics. >> we must remember that this child has been born into an extraordinary world. one very different to the world that william and harry was born into. and that brings all sorts of pressures as they envelop and try to keep a semblance of privacy from what will now and for a very long time be the most famous child in the world. >> wow. we'll talk about this. we'll put it into context. coming up -- because i think rattner and i are curmudgeons about all this obsession with it. this is an historic day. >> go ahead. >> the obsession. new york's police commissioner is coming up. he responds to the city's stop and frisk policy. ray kelly will join the table in

our next hour. and best-selling author phillipa gregory. keep it right here on "morning joe." [ ship horn blows ] no, no, no! stop! humans. one day we're coming up with the theory of relativity,

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>> you will have to help it! i have spent the last year of my life -- and you've just thrown it all away. now, get in there and make the announcement! >> my goodness, that was a scene from "the white queen," a new series coming to starz in august based on books by phillipa gregory. her latest novel "the white princess" hits stores today. steve rattner's read her books, 25. that. that's amazing. and this looks at turbulent times. another set of turbulent times for a royal family. tell us about it. >> well, the television series closes at the battle. i won't tell you who wins. and the very next morning the book opens with the white princess who is going to marry really the victor. if richard iii had won, she'd have probably married him. if william vii wins, she'll

probably marry him. she has to choose and then she has to make that marriage work. >> your books are tapping into a fascination that people have with royals. what do you think it is? how would you characterize the fascination? >> i think it's the period as much as anything else. what you're talking about is a time when the state of england is being made. everything that we have now is being forged in these years. and it's being forged in a battle between very, very, very different, very ambitious, very rivalrous houses. i think it's just a fascinating time politically. and of course, they have fabulous clothes. >> this is true. >> and in our version of it, bustle women and handsome young men. >> of course. >> what's not to like? >> only beautiful people, right, richard wolffe? >> that's all they have over there. >> exactly. and incredible accents. >> we do have some mud. we did include mud. >> apparently roadside trumpets. >> she did meet the king of england standing on the road. and i was doing an interview for

an american radio station. and i said it's a great love. he sees her. they fall in love. he says, where was she? standing by the road. to me she sounds like a hooker. >> i think they call them a commoner. >> yes, we do. we are. >> you know, your interest in that period is really important because those people made history. they were part of history. they were forming a country. they were deciding who was going to be in charge of the country. they were ruling. then you fast forward to today. they're not ruling. they're sort of reigning. they don't really have any input into policies into where the country's going. they don't decide on it, and yet there's an incredible fascination with them. >> they're kind of the figureheads and poster boys and girls of brand britain. so of course, you know, they promote themselves, and they promote britain. you know, if you want to know every detail of their private lives, somewhere you will be able to find out what someone who doesn't know them at all thinks about them. you know, it's very much speculation. but you're right. i mean, i'm interested in it

because there are tarrants and despots and they're working with power. the royal modern family is a very different piece of work, really. >> you know, the interesting thing about when you say they are figureheads, absolutely true. when brits look at the idea of replacing them, they can't come up with a plausible alternative. an older politician, you know, in germany they might have a chancellor, but they'll also have a president who is an aging politician. they don't want that. they actually prefer this fantasy. they prefer actually the kinds of things you're talking about. carried forward. there is this idea that there's this long tradition, and somehow it's been updated because they post things on twitter. really, it is the idea that this is a living history. and i think that the bigger problem for brits is that the prime minister operates with the power of the crown, which means that it's unchallenged executive authority. it's an elected monarchy.

and that's the real problem, not these figureheads and the fantasies. >> i think there's that. there's also the snobbery. that what you have is you have a pyramid of class and wealth of which the royal family is socially at the top. and for some people they find that a little bit tedious in this day and age. >> perhaps. go ahead, steve. what were you going to say? >> well, first of all, i think the prime minister operates in -- with the support of the commons, obviously, as well. it's not -- >> it's not a check and a balance. they do exactly what he wants because if they don't do what he wants, he's out. >> and personally i think that's the better way to do it, but we can have that debate at another time. >> he's a monarchist. >> no, i'm not a monarchist. >> we'll add that. >> this is sort of hard to imagine. even though americans idolize the royal family and are obsessed with the brits, the idea that we would have a group of people like that who were there purely by heredity who had no actual role in running the

country seems almost unimaginable to me. >> i know. i can't get my arms around that. explain it to me. >> i think it's the luxury at someone else's expense. we do put on a lovely show. if we do a great wedding, we have a great wedding. a coronation, lovely. funerals as well. of course, it's great production. we did the olympics really nicely. those of us who are taxpayers and those who aren't burdened with the personal detail, it seems rather a nuisance and rather an expense sometimes. but then i'm not really a monarchist. i'm really interested in it, but i wouldn't say i was a monarchist in the modern world. >> the series "the white queen" will premiere on starz saturday, august 10th. and her book is available in bookstores starting today. congratulations on everything. >> thank you. >> nice to have you on the show. >> thanks for having me. on tomorrow's show, we're going to have the continuation of the british invasion. member of parliament and shadow

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over her 60 year career and her fellow journalist are remembering her with tributes, anecdotes, and in the case of geraldo rivera by posting a naked selfie on twitter. though come to think of it, come to think of it, that might not have been a tribute to helen, that might have been what killed her. the trail he's blazing, folks, is for the sexy seniors out there. as geraldo wrote in his tweet, 70 is the new 50. exactly. and if there's one thing people want to see on their twitter feeds, it's naked 50-year-old men. >> i'm still recovering. >> you might have trouble keeping your breakfast down. >> from that to this, eliot

spitzer is rolling out a new ad on his run for redemption. the governor campaigning for comptroller kicks off the one minute ad he put together by admitting something voters probably already know. >> look, i failed big time. i hurt a lot of people. when you dig yourself a hole, you need to lie in it the rest of your life or get out of it. that's why i'm running. make sure your money goes where it's supposed to go, does what it's supposed to do, make sure the wall street firms that want us to invest with them play by the rules. if you hear negative noise, make sure where it's coming from. maybe being hated by billion dollar firms isn't such a great things, when i pushed to give exploited, undocumented immigrants a chance, took on

wall street firms cheating millions of middle class investors, it was all about the same thing, everyone, no matter who you are, deserves a fair shot. i'm asking voters to give the same to me. >> spitzer won't be getting any help from center gillibrand she endorsed scott stringer writing in part i believe scott stringer is clearly the best choice for new york comptroller will fight hard for middle class families and has the temperament and judgment to be successful. spitzer said her issues are wrong or too malleable. i would have started that ad with the line about the "wall street journal" and gone on from there. i don't know. did you guys think it was effective? >> i don't know if it was effective. his past is so much in the news he has to acknowledge them in these kinds of ads and continue the apology tour at least for the mom. you saw him pivot pretty quickly to everything he had done when

he was governor. >> it's so stylized. his 5:00 shadow. he's trying really hard to be real. >> look, number one, this is a long ad. it's long because he's got to explain a lot. that pivot line is the key one. that's why i'm running. why is he running? is it for wall street or redemption? i don't think he's resolved that. i don't think this ad resolves it either. >> those are important questions. i want to look at video scuba divers. >> take it. >> california, check this out. they were just along the ride scuba diving and humpback whales, boom, almost became fish food. i think they are not flesh eating animals. >> plankton. >> that's the word i was looking for. >> there's cool video, not a lot of value but cool to look at. more on the newest member of the

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king richard ii william shakespeare wrote, this blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this england, this nurse, this teeming womb of royal kings famous by their birth. yesterday the new realm another king, certainly if lineage plays its proper role, was born in

london yesterday afternoon. that took me and a lot of other people back 31 years to the day his father was born to princess diana. william was born to a much different time and in a much different royal family but mika, the line continues unbroken today. >> yes, it does. we're looking at pictures in london where people have been celebrating for almost 24 hours. any minute now we're getting the first look at the royal family. the duchess gave birth to a baby boy yesterday. he's third in line to the throne. prince william was at her side. we're still waiting to hear the name of the future king. this is a huge moment for the united kingdom celebrated around the world. i heard people all over town talking about it yesterday. did she have the baby? did she have the baby? and now the day is here. big day. we're going to dig into the archives of royal history with a

special focus on princess diana. we'll discuss how she shaped the life of prince william and prince harry and her the second generation lives on. "the daily beast" tina brown onon set, martin bashir, british historian dr. andrew roberts join us and jim maceda outside st. mary's hospital in london. we're waiting for that shot of the family of three now. first, nbc's chris jansinging recaps the big day. >> the cheers echoed across the grounds of buckingham palace. a boy born at 4:24 p.m., 8 pounds, 6 ounces. the official word came from st. mary's hospital carried by car to buckingham palace, where it was posted on an easel once announced prince william's birth. unique celebrations. what had been dubbed the great

kate weight is finally over. >> absolutely, it's amazing. >> queen elizabeth came home to buckingham palace from windsor and stated she was delighted as were other windsors. >> it is an important moment in the life of our nation. it's a wonderful moment for a warm and loving couple with a brand-new baby boy. >> new grandfather prince charles was overjoyed 200 miles north of london where he got a present. >> it's for the baby. >> right. i'll see what i can do. >> brits woke up to find out kate had gone to the hospital. >> if you're just waking up, really, really exciting news. >> but william and kate arrived so stealthily, none of the scores of photographers who camped out for days got them going in the back entrance.

>> very cleverly switched cars. >> joint by curious brits. this woman so excited she baked a cake and traveled five hours to be here. >> i got a taxi, i got a train, a coach, a tube. >> when william was born in 1982, the obstetrician reported he cried lustily. this time no additional details from the doctors after more than 10 hours of labor. of course it's called labor for a reason. but the lindo wing makes the best of it. georgie mcgraph delivered there. >> you have a special menu what you like, lobster, whatever, champagne. >> what will the new prince be named? >> george, regal george, very, very pop ar. several large three, even four figure betting. >> it's a very good bet that many a brit is raising a pint to the future king. >> tina thinks it's going to be james. joining us from london nbc news

correspondent jim maceda. you've got that door behind you. that's the next big event, correct? >> that is correct. there's still no sign yet of the new royal family, mika, coming out of that door, lindo maternity ward of st. mary's hospital. there is every reason to believe now, not the least of which the fact kate's hairdresser arrived a little while ago. also we've been briefed we would get a 30 to 60 minute warning. that warning hasn't come yet. the fact if you're giving that information suggests we're very close. kate, she recovered overnight in this hospital from what turned out to be a normal and healthy birth. she will be keen to go home and not see the likes of us for sometime, probably going to kensington palace first, then onto her parents' home. despite the thundershowers, the joy and excitement is palpable.

britain tourists still lining up outside the gates of buckingham palace to see that official announcement put there yesterday early evening. there was a general sense when you talked to people before the birth it would be a girl. that's perhaps why the headlines today in many british papers have a familiar theme on, "it's a boy." the daily telegraph "oh boy! he's a grandpa" prince charles. my favorite. the son newspaper spelled today son instead of sun in honor of the new royal member. we expect to see a number of things happen when they do leave, pooelg of bells at westminster abbey. massive gun salute, 61 guns, i've never seen that even in afghanistan, 41 guns, the main event is the money shot that all

of these around me are waiting for when william, kate, and the baby make that appearance, just as joe said, 31 years ago the father and mother of william on the very same states, the first time we'll see the future king. >> thank you very much, jim. tina brown, we were talking about 31 years ago when william was born. so much has changed. this royal family has been through tumultuous times, three people in a marriage, on and on. the queen herself, i mean, taking a terrible fall from grace after diana's tragic death. yet today here we are 31 years later, it seems like diana's boys helped clean up the mess. >> they really have. it's an extraordinary kind of circle we've seen, as you said. it's remarkable in such a short

time the whole thing has become rebranded again. there really was 15, 20 years there of marital mayhem, sleaze, listening into tapes, embarrassing revelations. all of the stuff was really, really cheesy for a long time. then as soon as william really kind of emerged into the public eye, you have this wholesome prince. his choice of kate middleton turns out to be absolutely impeccable. once again she does the perfect thing. there's a constitutional change we can now have a girl as a firstborn to be the monarch, nonetheless she does the traditional thing and gives us a prince, a king. lets face it, the queen will be thrilled. she and the duke much as they said they would have been fine with a girl firstborn they really did want a boy and they got one. >> you look at the influence of princess diana in here, and you see it in just how wonderfully these boys have turned out. andrew, we'd love to bring you

in just historically speaking, what this means for the next generation as we welcome yet the third in line to the throne here in the uk. >> that's right. this baby could actually take us into the 22nd century, if the little boy has got the same longevity as his great-grandmother and great, great-grandmother. the queen mother was 101 years old when she died. this is a child who could take the monarchy into a new chapter in the next century. >> martin, you can answer this as well, tina, about diana. i can't help but thinking as we look at those steps, the iconic image of diana and charles coming down 31 years ago. >> the green spotted dress. >> the green spotted dress. >> what's interesting, the distinction is princess catherine is 31. diana was 20. >> remarkable. >> she had had, as we now know,

a very difficult adolescence. she had a difficult childhood. her parents separated and subsequently divorced. she wasn't very happy at school. she developed anorexia and bl bulimia as an adolescent. she all of a sudden got married and was exposed to attention without any controls you're witnessing today. this whole event is being choreographed on the basis of everything the royal family learned from the princess of wales diana. >> the mistakes they made. >> the exposure. the fact when diana was announced as fiancee of prince of wales she went back to working at the nursery followed by 300 photographers. >> it was brutal. >> it was brutal. what you're seeing is the royal family, to joe's point, evolving. what tina was saying about that period between 1996 and '98 when

the prince and princess of wales were divorced, when hampton court palace was burned and damaged severely and she was heart broken at that. then, of course, diana's death in '97, which resulted in a lot of criticism. at that point the public polling suggested the british public were less inclined to support the monarchy. >> it was windsor that burned down. the monarchy was so unpopular the public didn't want to fund the repairs. >> that all contributed to that sense in which there was this terrible depression and sense of negativity towards the royal family. since as tina said william has come of age, all of the public has averaged between 70 and 80% of the population in favor of

retaining the monarchy. >> after diana's death, it's interesting, the closest people in the queen's circle, they refer to those events with her death when they showed their wrath about diana, they call it the revolution. everything they did subsequently was about correcting what they did wrong, about what they did with diana. they know they blew it. they really managed the whole emergence of kate, even to the point of allowing him to take a long time to marry her. they knew it would have to be solid. >> there were some differences for the first time ever. this young woman was not so young when they got married. she's fully educated. they lived together. they are much more modern to an extent. cutting through the tabloid stuff of the past 20 years, what is this baby's place in history and why do you think his name will be james? why do you go there?

>> i have an instinct there will ab jimmy, something kate and william will like. it's amazing to think this baby when it comes of age, as andrew was saying, 2050, what will that country look like? it's hard to imagine that the $37 million, whatever it is, the queen gets to dole out to her relations will be allowed. the whole idea you pay for your relations and so on which she is now doing, i can't imagine that being allowed. i can't even imagine the next royal baby born as a reality show on television. >> lets hope not. >> i certainly hope not. >> apparently willie was telling me there was a formulation of reality television on one particular network which featured a mother in contractions at the same time as princess catherine. >> i think it was cnn. it was a report from a medical correspondent. it wasn't live in fairness. >> i thought it was simultaneous -- >> it was a piece of what it's like to go through labor in

great britain, how it's different from america. >> she was taking laughing gas. >> laughing gas. >> andrew roberts, if i could, the value of the royal family. what is it that sort of brings it now to the forefront again? we can talk about the economics of this but also to the history? >> the genius of the institution is precisely that. every single generation can regenerate itself. the finances are very straightforward. they cost the british taxpayer $1 a year each. that is it. and they bring in billions. financially it is a win-win for britain. as far as the future is concerned, the very fact that we have for the first time since 1901 four generations of mona h monarchs all living together at the same time, it just shows the continuity of this fantastic

thousands-year-old institution. >> coming up, prince di her parenting of william and harry could have lasting impact on the new historical heir. >> down 29% from last year, according to police commissioner ray kelly, there's a clear reason why. he's here to discuss the city's stop and frisk policy which some critics say violates constitutional rights. first bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill. >> the heat from last week is gone in new england. heavy rain, travel trouble, possible arpt delays heading through new england, especially the boston area. we'll get downpours in the next hour or two. it would clear out by 10:00 this morning. to the south and west, heavy thunderstorms. this exploded over the last hour or two. going to drop north of the memphis air, driving memphis an hour or two, be prepared for heavy rain. this front bringing change of air mass, beautiful weather in the plains, heading for chicago.

that will make it into new england and northeast as we get in the week ahead. look how beautiful, chicago, 80s for you. as i mentioned, even new york city after the rain today, nice weather the rest of the week. a little break from our summer heat and especially the humidity. st. louis, you're one of those spots gorgeous air. enjoy your afternoon. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. a quarter million tweeters musicare tweeting.eamed. and 900 million dollars are changing hands online. that's why the internet needs a new kind of server. one that's 80% smaller. uses 89% less energy. and costs 77% less. it's called hp moonshot. and it's giving the internet the room it needs to grow. this ...is going to be big. it's time to build a better enterprise. together.

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with all the excitement surrounding the birth of the royal baby, we wanted to look back at his grandmother, a woman who was lost far too soon.

natalie morales reports for "dateline nbc." >> reporter: with all the excitement this royal baby brings, there's, of course, one person who isn't here to celebrate william and kate. >> i would love to have met her. and she's obviously an inspirational woman to look up to. >> diana would have turned 52 july 1st, quite young for a grandmother. but even in her absence, she will have a profound influence on this new baby. as princess of wales, she broke the mold for royal motherhood. >> diana was very much a part of her kids' lives. >> susannah lipscomb is a historian of the british monarchy. >> in so many ways it seems william has learned from his mother diana and is trying to reflect her sense of trying to be a good parent rather than the historic sense that comes from his grandmother.

>> back in 1981 after dazzling the world with their own majestic royal wedding, prince charles and princess diana face the same anticipation that william and kate have experienced, that pressure to produce the next heir to the throne. then just three months after their marriage, buckingham palace announced the princess was pregnant. but she found having a child in the windsor family wasn't so simple. for centuries royal babies had been born inside the palace surrounded by members of the royal court but not the father to be. >> when queen elizabeth gave birth to her two first children she was without her husband and she wasn't in hospital. he was off playing squash and it wasn't the royal way to go into hospital. >> that royal way wasn't diana's way, so she broke protocol and went to st. mary's in london. that's when a new tradition was

born. >> dine ark was the first woman to go into hospital to have her son, william, and she was the first one to have her husband at her side. >> it was june 21st, 1982, the crowd gathered outside st. mary's waiting for the big news, including press corps photographer arthur edwards. >> take me back to the day prince william was born. what do you remember? >> it was a rainy day. i remember prince charles when he came out of the hospital just after william had been born, 10:30 at night. he was so excited. unbelievably happy. >> marvelous form. marvelous. fair, sort of blondish. >> as they left the doorstep of st. mary's, the royal couple proudly displayed their son for the cameras. prince william's arrival back in 1982 was cause for celebration

across the united kingdom as well as a bit of humor. when queen elizabeth first saw her grandson she reportedly equipped, thank goodness he hasn't ears like his father. >> despite his stodgy image, prince charles actually took an active role as a dad in those early days. edward morgan made the headline making biography, "diana, the true story." >> after the birth he gave up royal duties. he was busy changing, getting in the tub with william at bath time, rather neglecting his beloved garden. >> behind palace walls, diana and her older, more conservative husband, clashed over certain aspects of their son's upbringing. >> diana really found herself as a woman by becoming a mother, because she then felt able to be more assertive. the first choice was in the baby's name. charles wanted arthur, she

wanted william. guess who won. >> she was also determined not to let royal duties get in the way of her parenting. when prince charles was a young boy, he rarely saw his mother and father. >> the queen and prince went away for six months to new zealand and australia this time when charles was 3 years old. it's almost unimaginable to us that celebration at a crucial age of a child's life. >> diana would have none of that. so she and prince charles took william on their royal tour to new zealand and australia when he was just nine-month-old. >> these great pictures of him crawling. >> crawling into charles' lap. >> looking up at his father, an amazing shot. >> that was in new zealand. they gave him a little toy bee. wen back with william in 2005, i said i photographed you over there with him on a rug. yes, you said, i put that little toy bee in my room to remind me

of it. >> we could see a sequel. william and kate are expected to travel to australia and new zealand next year, and they just might bring baby on board. it's all in keeping with their desire to be hands on parents, even if it means breaking the royal rules like william's mom. >> up until diana, royal babies were cared for by a range of different people that would be on hand. so there was a way in which mother and baby felt somewhat detached. but with diana, there was a desire to keep william by her side. >> so when prince charles wanted to bring on his long time nanny, diana stood her ground and hired her own. >> she had nannies for her children but there was a pecking order. diana was number one or chief chick, as she used to call herself, and everybody else just sort of waddled around. >> around at poll okay, william

it was, rushed to near the edge where the horses were and the nanny scolded him and his face broke into tears. he ran to his mother and she hugged him, smoothed his hair, calmed him down. >> diana was a deeply protective mom, but she knew the press was always eager for pictures. as she and charles took william on a stroll, the little prynne was just starting to see his future. >> camera. >> living in that royal fish bowl. >> thanks to the trail his grandmother diana blazed in the raising of her two sons, new doors will now open for william and kate as they and her royal parenthood. >> i can only imagine she will carry on that legacy. >> nbc's royal contributor. >> william knows he benefited from his mother's insistence he had as normal a childhood as possible for somebody in his

position. why wouldn't he replicate that for his children. >> even though she knew she was raising her boys to be king, she was beyond the royal household. >> what you saw in diana was a very modern mother within the royal family setup. >> thanks to "dateline nbc" for that report. coming up, new york city police commissioner ray kelly joins the table. "morning joe" will be right back.

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while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ] >> for the mayor to stay stop and frisk specifically bringing crime down, there really is no empirical data to back that up. as i say, the police definitely deserve credit for doing a lot of things right in this city over the past two decades, i don't think stop and frisk is one of them. >> a challenge for police and, indeed, government to ensure stop and frisk continues because it has to, that it's done constitutionally in new york, that it's done respectfully. a lot has to do with how cops engage with citizens, particularly minority citizens,

where the issue of so respect is so critical to sense of self. >> that was center for constitutional rights attorney and former commissioner yesterday with their takes on new york city's controversial stop and terrific practices. joining us now, current new york city police commissioner ray kelly. steve ratner and richard wolffe are back with joe and me as well. great to have you on. stop and frisk has really become the next conversation after stand your ground. it kept coming up on "meet the press" sunday. you actually wrote a piece in the "wall street journal," ray kelly, the nypd guilty of saving 7,333 lives. in it you write in part this, so far this year murders are down 29% from the 50-year low achieved in 2012. we've seen the fewest shootings in two decades. to critics none of this seems to much matter sidestepping that policies work, they continue to

a little massive number of minorities are stopped and frisked for no other reason other than race. never mind in the city's 76 preseengts, the race of those stopped highly correlates to descriptions provided by victims or witnesses to crimes. as a city, we have to face the reality that new york's minority community is experiencing disproportionate share of violent crime. to ignore that fact, as our critics would have us do, would be a form of discrimination in itself. i hear this argument made to defend the policy and it's a strong one. having said that, do you think the stop and frisk policy is bringing crime down? >> well, it's a component. people want to make it out as a program. it's not the program. it's a practice that is essential to police throughout america. as a matter of fact, you can't police without doing it. so i think it's been overblown. clearly there's a lot going on

now. we're waiting for the judge's decision. it's only one piece of what they are doing in new york and other cities, too. we are engaged in proactive policing. the whole series of strategies and tactics is what in my opinion has brought crime down dramatically here. as you said in the piece, 7,383 fewer murders, the 11 years prior to michael bloomberg's tenure and 11 years of michael bloomberg. if history is any guide, as we say, these are young men, for the most part, of color. we are engaging in our judgment in lifesaving practices and it's made a difference. it's made a difference throughout new york. >> joe wants to jump in. joe. >> commissioner, why is it that this policy, controversial in many communities, why is it this this policy, this practice is so critical to law enforcement not only in new york city but also

in other major metropolitan cities as well. >> because this is what a pay your police officers to do. if they see something of a suspicious nature, you want them to engage. otherwise become totally reactive to 911 calls. in order to prevent crime, in order to reduce crime as we have here, you need a policy of engagement, in a variety of ways. stop and questioning, sometimes frisking. in new york city less than half the stops result in a frisk. it's essential to what we're doing. it is a core function of law enforcement throughout america. >> so there's a lot of -- in the local coverage in new york you see the frisking happening. you see these people -- i've seen one piece of video actually anyone but a minority. you put a lot of numbers on the table here. the numbers also show that the people are stopped and frisked

are primarily minorities and primarily end up to be found doing nothing wrong. so one of the arguments would be that going up to people who are doing nothing wrong is not stopping crime, it's breeding resentment and playing a dangerous game of profiling that could explode at some point. >> i wouldn't say doing nothing wrong. what this says if you have reasonable suspicion a crime is about to be committed has been committed you can stop and question someone. the notion anyone stopped has done absolutely nothing wrong is not really the case. if you saw someone going down the street trying door handles, that's not technically a crime but you'd stop that person, engage that person, sort of a classic top and question situation. >> but that's not what's happening. i mean, it's kids leaving school. >> sure it's what's happening. >> walked up to by the police and ask questions.

>> they need reasonable suspicion to stop someone and question them. i'm not clear -- are you citing a specific example? >> new york city has a lot of people who say they were doing nothing wrong. >> there's six plaintiffs in that case, the floyd case. >> there are countless numbers and stories that have been covered on this and video that we've seen, undercover video of these stops happening. i don't see anyone opening door handles. >> i'm not sure which one you're referring to. the need for reasonable suspicion is clearly articulated. this is what police officers are taught. this is what they need. you can show a piece of video that may not bring that out, but this is something we drill in the police officers. we have ongoing training sessions for stop and question. they have to take a test in the police academy, they have to get 100% on the test. so it is a constant subject of training and drilling.

now, i can't say, you know, that you may not have seen the video, that you don't think it rises to reasonable suspicion, but we could discuss it. we have to look at the totality of the particular situation. >> so commissioner, a couple of things. first, i think all of us who live in new york appreciate the crime rate is down. i lived here in the 70s, i know what it's like. i'm grateful to you and your predecessors for what's done. i hear you when you say this is a police tactic used all over the country. you don't hear about it all over the country as much as you hear about it here. for some reason, maybe this is new york, you hear aggressively you hear more about stop and frisk than you do elsewhere. two more quick things, mika was trying to make the point 88% of your stops don't result in a summons or an arrest. the question is, is there a way to bring down the number of people who are topped but still hopefully keep the arrest rate high. the last thing i want to throw in front of you -- my one shot at you. >> third.

>> everything i've read about that trial going on suggests the judge is pretty skeptical about the way you guys are doing it and feels like the ruling may be somewhat adverse to what you may be trying to do? >> i'm not going to predict what the ruling is. one of the reasons you hear pout it here and not perhaps other places, this litigation has been going on for 15 years by the same law firm or consent for constitutional rights. it continues to bring cases. also, we've recorded here, i would submit more accurately than any other jurisdiction. people will say, well, in 1999 you only had 92,000 stops. now you had last year 2011, 600 something thousand stops. that's a function of much better recordkeeping. anybody familiar with this case knows the records were not accurately kept in the '90s. so we're being criticized for

accurate recordkeeping. that 670,000, 80,000 number amounts to less than one stop pour week per patrol officer. this is a big city. we arrest over 400,000 people a year, issue over 450,000 summons, 12 million calls to the 911 system. we have 23 million citizen contacts a year in the department. so people will roll out that number and say, wow, it's a very high number. in reality, when you put it in context everything else happening in new york, it is not an unreasonable number given the circumstances. >> recordkeeping -- isn't it also cops being asked to bring their numbers up, the amount of people they stop? >> no. >> there are no quotas. >> no quotas. productivity goals just like any business. msnbc i'm sure there's productivity goals. commanders want their officers to pull on a rope, so to speak,

do a fair amount of work. there are no quotas. this is always an issue that surfaced by worker groups, that sort of thing. >> your name is being batted around possible homeland security selection. would you want to do that job? >> well, i'm flattered by the comments coming from the president, but i won't make any other comment. >> keeping quiet on that. that's fair. you're sure now, commissioner? we want to show you video out of rio. this is really, really dicey security situation. your analysis of this, and we've also done papal visits here. they are incredibly costly and difficult. this looks like almost a worst case scenario because the car can't even move. he's not in an armored car it seems. what do you make of this? >> i can tell you when the pope came here in 2008, we had -- we used, of course, his car. we made certain no one got close to the car.

obviously people wanted to see the pope. this looks to me like they should rethink their security plans. seems to me to put the pontiff at risk. you can't let people get that close to the car. you can also see that the there's a vehicle in front of them so they couldn't drive away if they had to. >> ray kelly, thank you so much for being here today. we wish you would have run for mayor, or at least i do. i hope you get homeland security, at least i do. like steve ratner said, there are millions of new yorkers who thank you for the safety record which, again, this year, as you said, is nearly an unprecedented number. >> thank you, joe. >> i do too, by the way. up next, inside one of the main problems -- thank you, commissioner -- that drove detroit to bankruptcy. pension applications. why workers in and outside of the city are keeping a close eye on the situation. that in today's business headlines with cnbc's brian sullivan. "morning joe" will be right

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45 past the hour. to detroit now where there's a huge gap between the money set aside for pensions and the amount they have already promised to retired workers. it's a problem that's not exclusive to the motor city. nbc's john yang reports. >> reporter: he was a detroit cap 26 years. he worked long hours and went years without raises in return for the promise of reliable retirement income, $2900 a month, is at risk. >> if these cuts go through, it will destroy my retirement. i'll have to find a fulltime job with benefits that aren't in supply. >> like many states across the country, he's not eligible for social security. in bankruptcy court day and others are creditors fighting for a piece of a very small pie. >> i feel betrayed. i think all retirees feel

betrayed. >> reporter: the problem is not limited to detroit. like a lot of households states and cities don't always set aside enough money for the future. a new boss college study find state and local nationwide they have promised workers $1 trillion in retirement benefits than they are able to pay. >> in a lot of cases these increased costs, are a product of poor funding in the past and not so much the plans. >> according to the research center, 34 states have short falls of at least 20%. the worst, illinois, has less than half what it needs. the same day detroit filed for bankruptcy the bond rating service moody's downgraded chicago to negative. among the reasons, extremely underfunded pension plans. >> what chicago gets from detroit is the opportunity to see what happens when you don't address the problems when you still have a chance. >> something leaders in states

and cities across the nation will likely look at very closely. >> brian, of course we heard the term political obstacles to pension reform. the problem here is politicians make promises to public employee unions that they can't keep after they get into office. or if they do keep, keep those promises, those overblown promises, well, then, we see what happens in detroit, we see what happens in chicago. we see what's happening across america. >> and the problem is, joe, there's no solution, because those promises were largely made when things were better than they are now. the money was there. the deals were made, right? now you're looking at a pool of money to john yang's package simply does not exist but the obligations exist. people rely on them for their lives. they have to eat. they have to house themselves. they have to save. the money is simply not there. so the people who are still there working are angry that

other people are still getting their benefits but yet the people that get the benefits need the benefits to exist. how do you solve that problem? how do you tell somebody, i'm sorry, i know you rely on x dollars a month but you're not going to get it. how do you tell somebody that? >> all right. cnbc's brian sullivan. thank you very much. stay with us. we'll be right back. keep it right here on "morning joe." engine humming. sfx: birds chirping sfx: birds chirping

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almost impact to watch yesterday's events without thinking of the people's princess, diana. she was just 20 when she apprehended william to the world. a report on the birth of what would have been her first grandchild. >> william and kate's bedside, the family is celebrating but there's someone missing, diana. >> there will be that moment when the baby is safely born, there will be a tinge of sadness from the beginning. >> reporter: she's been a presence from the beginning. kate's engagement ring belonged to diana. >> i would love to know her. she was a woman to look up to. >> reporter: she would have been 52 now. >> i think she would be thinking, i'm going to be a grandmother. it's always a bit of a shock. she'll be thinking i hope this

baby has as much fun as i had with william and harry. >> she was fun. she loved being a mother. when royal duty called, she found it hard to be away. >> i miss them but we're coming back. >> the greatest with those boys when she was on a trip and they were on the body and her arms are as wide as the world and she says this is where you feel safe. >> she was fiercely protective with children born in the spotlight. diana was determined to raise her boys as normal children. here near kensington palace, she broad them to mcdonald's and the movies, the kind of thing william is likely to remember as a new father. >> diana's influence is inescapable, something for william to draw on. >> she gave us both huge reservoirs of strength. >> reporter: but he will also feel her loss now as he has since he was young.

>> i wait to see that picture of a brand-new beautiful baby and i wait to see it cradled in kate's arms. i think for all of us who knew diana, and certainly for william, there will be that moment, if only my mother could have seen my lovely child. >> up next, what, if anything, did we learn today. my mantra?

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welcome back. time to talk about what we've learned. >> louis is running around wearing a crown because learned way too early the baby could be louis. >> retirees in detroit have the worst time than royal babies. >> steve. >> i've learned i've had enough of the royal family for this time around. lets give it a rest for a while. >> i have other news out of england, david cameron. right below the fold of the royal baby, he's retreating on his threats to take on internet poor. >> okay. joe. >> all right. if it's way too early, meek, what time is it? >> time for morpgz. but now time for "the daily rundown" with chuck todd. xxxx good morning, i'm chuck todd. we've got pageantry to share

with you this morning. live pictures with gun salutes, this is the park, all to welcome the new young man who is third in line to the throne. lets take a listen.