what's going to be on the floor and what isn't going to be on the floor. that's what you're asking me to do. i can't do that. and i don't want it to do that. if i come out and say i'm for this and i'm for that, all i'm doing is making my job harder. >> that is kind of an interesting take on leadership though. in other words, you don't see yourself as someone who has an agenda. you're there to just sort of manage whatever your people want to do? is that -- i'm not sure i understand what you see as your role. >> bob schieffer is not alone. in a recent profile of the speaker that ran in "new york" magazine, "everyone on the hill has become a boehnerologist trying to divine what he thinks and what, by extension, he's going to do." but is boehner's mindset really that hard to discern? his goal seems clearly to do as little as possible. that much is obvious not just from the record of the 112th and early stages of the 113th congress, but also because the man himself second in line to the presidency has said so. >> we should not be judged on

how many new laws we create. we ought to be judged on how many new laws we repeal. >> and with that, the speaker made abundantly clear the republican approach to governing. remember when mitch mcconnell famously said the single most important thing we want to achieve is for president obama to be a one-term president? the speaker of the house hog tied by a radical right flank has now clearly stated that he wants to be judged not by how much he accomplishes, but by how much he unaccomplishes. in "new york" magazine, jonathan chat writes, "the republican fringe has become a gang of saboteurs who would rather stop government from functioning at all." evidence of that was to be found in a memo to house republicans heading home for the summer recess. advising them of the message of the day fighting washington. never minding the fact that they are in fact washington. with the president set to lay out his economic plans tomorrow ahead of future debt ceiling

negotiations this fall, a few hours ago speaker boehner had this to say. >> so tomorrow the president says he's going to go out and pivot back to jobs. well, welcome to the conversation, mr. president. we never left it. we've been focused on jobs for the last 2 1/2 years. >> speaker boehner may be taking issue with the president's agenda, but it is unclear whether speaker boehner even knows what's actually on it. >> the president of the united states, what do you think his agenda is for the second term? >> i have no idea. >> joining me today, senior editor for the cook political report, jennifer duffy. visiting professor at nyu and msnbc political analyst, former democratic congressman harold ford jr. "washington post" columnist and msnbc contributing jonathan capehart, and joining me from washington is "new york" magazine columnist jonathan shate whose feature is the latest issue is "anarchists of

the house." jonath jonathan, fascinating read. you followed it up with today's post online basically talking about the hellaciousness -- i am of course paraphrasing -- of being john boehner in the current house of representatives. talk to us about your thesis here, that it isn't so much about radical policy with house republicans these days. it is about actually stopping the wheels of governance. >> exactly. it's different means. it's not radical ends that are new. when the house republicans took control of the institution after 2010 they didn't just say that's the end of obama's agenda, we're not passing any new laws. they had this idea that they were the new legitimate government. obama's presidency was over and they were going to push policy in their direction. of course they didn't have the votes to pass bills and override obama's veto so they had to use extreme new tactics to try to threaten obama to accept laws that they wanted passed that he

didn't want to pass. that's the position we've been in since republicans took control of the house. john boehner's problem is that his base wants to do this, wants to force these crises in order to make obama accept these unacceptable laws to him but boehner's very reluctant to go there so he keeps trying to put off these extreme demands by his own base but they just keep getting angrier and angrier that he hasn't forced obama to repeal his own health care law and to do all these other pretty extreme changes. >> so as a result we have a speaker of the house who dares not say what bills he may bring to the floor, someone who is loathe to actually outline an agenda because he has got to basically remain so self-neutered if he does not, he may lose his speakership. >> right. he's been under this threat of a coup, as my jennifer senior wrote. since he started as people, he wasn't one of the tea party people. they never liked him, he was

just there. they've been kind of waiting around to throw him out on his ear since he started and he's been just kind of surviving day to day ever since. >> harold, i want to focus on this memo to house republicans as they returned home for the august recess. and the idea that they are fighting washington, when in fact they are washington. i'll read an excerpt from a sample op-ed. every day in congress i work to fight washington. i'm fighting washington to spur economic growth and create more jobs. i'm fighting washington to hold government accountable to taxpayers. i'm working to dismantle obama care. this seems like an inordinately negative thing to do to say i am working to undermine governance. >> they are now fighting against this and don't want to be there. it is an odd way to run for a job. speaker bain wesh who is a

friend, are just odd. to say you are measured not by whether you address big public policy challenges and offer solutions to big and small problems alike but rather you are repealing laws is unfortunate. i'll give him the benefit of the doubt and presume that he meant if we repeal certain laws we are actually answering questions. but have you big debt issues. have you an immigration challenge. we obviously have social issues that need to be addressed. but i think the big challenge the country faces, how do we become an innovation leader again, how do we create and ensure we prepare skilled workers for the kinds of jobs that will exist going forward. there seems to be not only an absence of a conversation around that, there seems to be an absence of even an understanding and appreciation for the depth and magnitude of things the country is facing today. >> ungovernance, which is fairly meta. i just don't know how you sell that to the american people. such a clear articulation of -- i go from the mitch mcconnell statement, our goal is to have -- our number one is to make him a one-term president,

to john boehner, we are not going to be judged by how many laws we enact but by how many we repeal is such a repud days of civil service. >> well, yes it is. remember, mitch mcconnell failed in his goal. that's one thing. watching speaker boehner speak to bob schieffer is like watching a hostage video. i was watching his eyes to see if he was blinking "help me" as he spoke. clicking quiet morse code messages? >> the tea party has me hostage, i can't do anything. the reason why he won't put forth an agenda of any kind is because he is afraid of this coup attempt we've been talking to. he says the president should focus on jobs, welcome to the conversation, meanwhile he won't talk about the fact that the house has voted more than 38 times now to repeal obama care without presenting their own plan to replace it. and one last point. i'm not surprised by that little flyer that they sent their members -- >> the fighting washington. >> fighting washington.

yeah, remember in the 2010 election, a lot of thoets folks, particularly the tea party folks, went to washington to do the very thing john boehner is saying that they want to undo. we didn't come to washington to do things, we came to undo things, we came to repeal things. that's actually probably the truest thing we've seen so far. >> jennifer, jonathan in his piece says the tea partiers actually in the sense that they are trying to stop the wheels of government and trying to prevent legislation from going through have more in common with the radical left of the '60s and '70s, had they ever gotten to office, than they do with sort of small government conservatives. i mean their goal is to stop things from happening and not measurably to do anything legislatively. >> right, i think that's true. and i think you have to understand that these tea party members represent districts where a majority of voters agree with them. i mean what you've read, as crazy as that sounds to us, is

catnip to a lot of their constituents. a lot of these republican members aren't really afraid of whatever democratic challenges they get. they're actually afraid of getting primary challenges. because they've done too much. >> it goes both ways though. >> exactly. about 83% of the house doesn't have to worry about the other party. most of them have to worry about their own party. but these tea party types want to -- they want to get rid of speaker boehner, they ought to be careful what they wish for because i'm not sure that right now the house republican caucus is even governable. >> jonathan, that's sort of the point you make. we have news today in buzz feed that justin amosh is forcing boehner's hand for a vote to defund the nsa as part of the dodd appropriation bills. steve stockman i think minutes, hours from now, is going to be unrolling some scroll on the steps of the capitol calling for a benghazi investigation. that is coming at the same time

that speaker boehner is out there excoriating the president for not having his eyes on the ball as far as job creation saying welcome to the conversation, mr. president. well, i don't see joe biden on the steps of the capitol unrolling a scroll pertaining to the nsa or benghazi. >> right. and the problem for boehner here is the list of areas where he has to force his base to do something that's unacceptable to them just keeps piling up. this benghazi committee they want. immigration reform. debt ceiling. government shutdown. defunding obama care. there's all these things they demand he is trying to do that he is reluctant to do or thinks he just can't do even if he wants to that he can't so they just keep getting angrier and angrier at john boehner. what's his way out of this problem, especially when all these things start colliding in the fall about the same time. >> harold, there are nine days before the september deadline before an agreement needs to be

reem reached to fund the government. we talk about this and that, that's a big deal for this country. to know that there are only nine days left and to see where the republicans are in terms of negotiation, in terms of party unity, this new do not compromise, no back room deals -- well that's how deals are made. even talking to nancy pelosi. it sort of gives you pause as far as where we're going. where do we go from here if there is a bargaining table and only one side is sitting at it? >> are you one of the great mat ma ti mathmeticians. >> i only think in terms of congressional working days. weekends don't exist in my calendar. >> the august recess. look, i think there is an argument made a little bit on both sides how we don't have as much leadership as we should have. i think that republicans who argue that democrats and particularly the president is not asking enough from democrats

around entitlement reform and it is probably some truth to that. that being said, this president has shown a real willingness to compromise and to find common ground in places particularly on issues that are prevalent in congress today from social issues and economic issues of immigration across the board to how we create jobs. the fact that republicans won't even bring an alternative to the floor -- and i think your point, jonathan's point, they can repeal -- they have every right to try to repeal a health care law but you have to offer an alternative because it is an acknowledgement that we don't have a health care challenge in the country. in other words, i feel sorry for boehner, for john. he has a group of people that he can't control. your point about the hostage piece is spot-on. but he has to lead. i think he'd be rewarded in a way that it is hard to predict and hard to foresee as we sit here on this panel will there be some defectors within his caucus? sure. but would he embolden and perhaps empower -- >> would he va legacy? i feel like the choice is clear for this man. doubling down on obstruction and the raucous right flank --

>> then the president should be his partner if he does this. >> the president and boehner has sat down and boehner has returned with nothing because his caucus has basically undermined him. jonathan chait, i'd love your thoughts on this. when the speaker has broken the hastert rule, the sky has not fallen. he is able to pass legislation with some democratic support. if he brought the senate's immigration bill to the floor of the house, it would pass tomorrow. but he's reluctant to do so because i think he thinks his speakership depends on it. do you think he could survive if he ended the hastert rule? >> that's a very good question. he did it a few times at the beginning, but conservatives were caught off guard. right? they were disorganized, sort of angry. boehner said, okay, you guys don't have your act together, i'll just get the democrats to pass the bill i want for me and you guys can sit this one out. but they started to organize around preventing him from doing that saying the hastert rule mean all bills must have the support of the majority of republicans. you can't just get a handful of republicans and all the

democrats to pass your bills. they've held his feet to the fire on immigration and other things that turn this into a life or death issue for him. so whether he can violate this once or twice whether it looks like he has to violate it repeatedly to avoid catastrophe in the fall. whether his speakership can even make it into next year remains to be seen. >> i think speaker boehner has to decide, one day he has to just wake up and say, what the hell? we've got these problems. i've got to get this done for the sake of the country. it seems like he's the only person there who actually remembers what it's like to govern and that's why i think that if he were to decide to do that, absolutely from my reporting, president obama would be right there with him because the president still views speaker boehner as a reasonable partner -- if only he weren't held hostage by his raucous caucus. >> i think the president is going to have to be proactive in saying that. to jonathan's point, the speaker cannot bring this to the floor without canter saying yes.

canter is the majority leader and officially has that roll. if he pushed canter, just talking about it realistically here, there would be a vote called on his speakership so we can sit here and urge him to be courageous which i hope he is, but unless canter and mccarthy also show the same courage and say we'll bring this to the floor, it won't be brought to the floor, immigration or any issue, for that matter. >> to harold's point. >> i mean that's exactly right. he may be the speaker but there's only so much he can do without a little cooperation. right now he's not getting any. >> jonathan, one thing -- i think sometimes the media has a tendency to oversensationalize a situation we're in. but i do think given the extreme behavior of the house -- of the house republicans, i mean it is a fire and brimstone situation. i wonder at the end of this, the president is going out on the road tomorrow laying some economic plans or theses that

have been outlined before. when the american public sits back, and if nothing is done and we go into another hostage situation at the beginning of the fall over the debt ceiling, i don't see the blame falling on democratic shoulders. i think that what is happening. in the shohouse is so obvious t the american public, do you still think republicans have leverage to gain by this behavior? >> it is hard to say. i don't think john boehner thinks so. i think john boehner wants to get out of it but i think the media often oversensationalizes. but here i think that they are undersensationalizing it. we have a real potential train wrecks coming up. we have the house needing to cooperate just to keep the lights on. not talking about passing new laws and solving problems. we're just talking about averting creating problems. it's hard to see how that happens. it can happen but it really might not. >> maybe #trainwreck should not be used for the aca but instead for the gop caucus. "new york" magazine's jonathan chait. as always, thank you.

we'll post your article online after the show. william shakespeare famously wrote "what's in a name?" the answer might be a lot of money in memorabilia sales. we'll get the latest on royal baby watch 2013 live from buckingham palace next on "now." ♪ [ male announcer ] harvey's i'm so happy you're home dance. that's real love. and so is giving him real tasty food. but some leading dog foods add sugar, dyes, or even artificial preservatives. [ dog whimpers ] but now there's new so good! from iams. with 100% real wholesome ingredients and none of those other things. now that's real love. so is that. new so good! see what's really in your dog's bowl at iams.com.

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have the obamas decided what to give the duke and duchess of cambridge? >> i have no new information about potential gifts. i do like to -- i would like to say that i think james would be an excellent choice in name. just a thought.

even white house press secretary jay "james" carney has an opinion on the royal baby name. almost 25 hours after the entered the world, his loyal subjects want to know his name and get a glimpse of his face. let us go now to london where nbc's anabel roberts is outside buckingham palace with the latest on the new baby boy. do you have any idea when we will see the youngest windsor? >> reporter: no. in a word, no, i don't. we were told earlier today that if they were going to leave hospital today, they would probably do that by 6:00 london time which is half-an-hour. so who knows? we might get that first glimpse of this baby that most of us have been waiting for in about half-an-hour or we're going to have to wait until tomorrow. what has happens this afternoon is that the baby's grandparents, carol and mike middleton, have been in to visit kate, william and the so-far unnamed baby. and on leaving the hospital this

afternoon, carol middleton, the grandmother, said he's beautiful, they're both doing well, we're really thrilled. lovely words that you would spent had her to say so obviously everything's going fine. it is really impossible to know at this stage if she needs an extra night in hospital. the labor was quite long. the baby's big. i don't know. maybe doctors are advising her that she should spend one more night in hospital just to make sure she's fully recovered. here at buckingham palace there is still plenty of excitement about this event. behind me snaking along the railings at buckingham pal slacs a cue of people lining up to get their picture taken next to the easel. it's still out there. a lot of people, mainly tourists, are lining up, taking their time, patiently waiting to go and take their photo in front of that historic easel, a moment in history. but of course the coverage in the newspapers here was ecstatic and really over the top this

morning. one exception -- this is the satirical news magazine, "private eye." "woman has baby." i think we can conclude that they're perhaps less than overwhelmed. >> classic, classic british wit. do we know if and when the royal couple emerge, william and kate emerge from the hospital, will they be taking questions? what is the precedent here? >> well, it is quite interesting you ask that. obviously the photo will be taken of them cuddling this little baby on the steps but then they get in the car and go away. so what they're going to do is come out on the steps, have the photo taken. we understand william might say a few words, but that's not confirmed yet. then they go back inside the hospital, put the baby in a car seat -- they have to abide by the rules obviously. then they carry the baby out in the car seat, strap it into the car and off they go. probably to kensington just a short distance down the road.

i've been there today. a few people waiting around just to see in expectation that they might turn up there this afternoon but that's the plan. now william is on paternity leave from his job as an raf rescue pilot in wales. he has two weeks paid paternity leave. it is understood that he is then going to return to work so kate will then be on her own because where is he working in wales is quite some distance from london. so it is thought that after about two weeks that they will spend together here at kensington palace in london, she will most likely go to her parents' home an hour or so outside london and spend the rest of the summer there, william coming down to join her when he can. >> anabel, a little bit more on the details of the exit. we have some movement. charles and camilla may or may not be on their way to the hospital. jonathan capehart has an important question about transportation pertaining to wills and kate. >> so remember during the royal

wedding, charles -- william and katherine drove themselves in i. >> we had the hottest day in london yesterday, 93 degrees. this evening the thunder clouds are gathering on the horizon so it looks like a huge downpour. i think the soft top is out. i have heard it said that william plans to drive himself -- drive his new family home from the hospital. we'll have to wait and see what happens there. >> every time the couple hops in a car, it is literally an ad for the british tourism bureau i think just simply because of their youth, vitality, their beauty and baby makes three i'm sure will be on many a postcard. in terms of the role of kate's mother, and the middleton

family, the fact that they are -- they have been as involved with the baby and they -- from reports we're hearing they will be involved in the care taking of the baby now that he is born is rather unusual for a royal couple. is it not? >> well, yes, it is unusual. but kate and william have done things their own way right from the beginning. they've tried to sort of control things as they wanted them to be controlled. and kate is of course very close we know to her family. it is a very, very tightly knit family. william has obviously become part of that family. but for many years he's been going there to their family home. he's said to be very integrated into that family and feels completely at home there. so i think it is only natural that they will want carol and michael -- kate and william will want carol and michael to be really involved in the upbringing of that child and that's one way that this future monarch will get a great sense of normality, being in a normal

family home and that kind of environment which really is something that william had very little exposure to when he was a child. he was brought up at kensington palace as well but diana was from an aristocratic background, a broken home, not much love there. i think william's keen for his child to be exposed to, let's say, a normal family, mom, dad still together, still in love. that's the grandparents, i mean, carol and michael, and for their child to experience that which is something he didn't see himself. >> you know, jonathan, i don't think most people know were you born into royalty but the fact that were you raised by commoners has kept you so grounded and in touch with mainstream america. >> exactly. >> despite the pocket handkerchief and perfectly tied tie. your feet remain firmly on the ground. we talked yesterday while we were awaiting the birth of this royal baby boy, the monarchy costs to british taxpayers, nearly 33.3 million pounds last

year. however, the crown -- and $252.6 million in profits this year. in terms of tourism, however, i believe the royal couple is expected to bring in hundreds of millions of pounds in profit -- oh, and we have the arrival of charles and camilla. at the hospital. anabel, are you at buckingham palace. this is a big moment for the country. this is i think the first time in several generations that a grandfather in the royal british royal family has been able to meet his grandson. is that right? >> well, absolutely. remember, william and harry were the first princes to be born in a hospital. up until that point they'd always been born -- many of them, at buckingham palace behind me so that was a precedent, as was prince charles being present when william and harry were delivered as william was yesterday. so again, another example,

charles and camilla turning up at the hospital now to meet their new grandchild, of which charles has spoken very movingly what a unique and special moment this is for him. camilla of course has five grandchildren of her own through her children from her first marriage. so she has some experience. but one can only imagine what a poignant moment this will be for prince charles to go meet his first grandchild, now third in line to the throne. alex. >> indeed. nbc's anabel roberts at buckingham palace, thank you. my monois on the name alexander. we're going to take a short break but when we come back, when it comes to republicans and obama care, total shutdown is the new repeal. we'll discuss the gop's strategy of ungovernance and the future of the affordable care act when dr. zeke emanuel joins us just ahead. [ tap ] ♪ we'll share the same dream ♪ ♪ at the dark end of the street ♪

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70 days. that's how long the white house has to convince americans to participate in health insurance exchanges created under the affordable care act. perhaps the most fundamental component of the new law. the exchanges will work as follows -- between october 1st and march 31st of next year, individuals who don't receive insurance through their jobs will be able to compare different health insurance plans online and purchase a policy through their state's exchange.

the exchange will also detail which federal subsidies may be available. the white house is betting on the enrollment process being efficient. the trick lies in convincing young people to sign up, something that could make the difference between success and failure for the health care law. without young people, at least 2.7 million of them, the insurance marketplaces will be filled with older, sicker americans, premiums will skyrocket and the vision of the -- the republican vision of an obama care train wreck might just be possible so this week president obama is rolling out a new weapon -- star power. yesterday the president and his senior aides met with actors and musicians, including kal penn, alicia keys, amy poehler and jennifer hudson and with cont t effort to draw star power.

for the 39th time last week, th suffocated it. this week 64 republicans have signed on to a letter pressing speaker boehner not bring to the floor any legislation funding the nation's health care law and it is not just the lower chamber. republican senators have also signed on to the strategy of defund and destroy. earlier this month senator marco rubio told a crowd you want to delay implementation? don't fund it. and yesterday utah senator mike lee appeared on fox news to express his commitment to the strategy of carjacking the government to make sure people don't gain access to health care. >> right now this is the last stop before obama carefully kicks in on january 1st of next year. for us to refuse to fund it. congress of course has to pass a law to continue funding government. lately we've been doing that through a funding mechanism called a continuing resolution. if republicans in both houses simply refuse to vote for any

continuing resolution that contains further funding for further enforcement of obama care, we can stop it. we can stop the individual mandate from going into effect. >> joining us now, vice provost for global initiatives at the university of pennsylvania, former white house advisor for health policy and an msnbc contributor, dr. zeke emanuel. doc zeke -- dr. zeke, it is always great to have you on especially now with this roll-out just 70 days away. i ask you, as someone who was involved in the planning and writing of this law, can republicans actually choke it to death? >> i don't think so. i do think that most states are going to implement -- i think the government is going to implement and i think there is going to be a public outcry for implementation because we're seeing such low premiums and people are going to want to get those low premiums especially since they come with no pre-existing condition requirements which i think allow

a lot of people in. i saw a report that in california, if you're a single man with 150% of the poverty line making around $18,000, you can buy a health care plan, the silver plan -- not even the base one -- for $34 a month, under $400 a year. if you have one emergency room visit you've more than paid for this thing. i think that's the kind of great health care insurance people are going to want to see and they're going to be pretty upset if it is being denied them because of republicans. >> zeke, i think that once you get into the specifics of what's available, there's really a case to be made for signing up for health care under the exchanges and what have. you in new york premiums have dropped 50%. >> i was sure that there was a misnumber there or some mistake because those just were any nominal drops. >> and the national average according to the hhs report is a

20% drop in premiums. there's real measurable savings here in this plan. the question i guess is, will americans get to that point where they are looking at the exchanges, where they think there is something out there for him. we are getting reports from the hill, some republican congressional offices, which routinely help their constituents, plan to turn away callers that have obama care questions. "we now how to forward a phone call. i have two dedicated staff who deal with nothing but obama care and immigration problems. i'm sure there will be an uptick in that but all we can do is pass them back to the administration. the ball's in their court. they're responsible for it." i mean the level of entrance intelligence in and around what's settled law is pretty breathtaking. >> i think it's really shows the desperation here because once this goes into effect, once americans actually use the law find that they can get insurance, find that they're actually satisfied, less financial pressure on them, the law is going to become popular

just like medicare became popular. so this is a desperate attempt to try to prevent it from coming into place. one last election, the 2014 election is going to be fought on the obama care issue. and then i think it is just going to become part of the background, part of our national herita heritage, like medicare. so i think this is really a sign of the republican desperation and their great fear that it is really going to work and really going to be popular and people are really going to want to use it. that is the way i'm seeing this intransgence. >> the notion that the continuing resolution to fund the government is hanging on the funding of obama care. to jonathan's point, the republicans are trying to extract these extraordinary things from the president just to keep the lights on

effectively. i guess -- to zeke's point, when you look at this there is a kaiser poll out from last month asking young people whether they want insurance. ages 18 to 25 -- 77% of them want access to health insurance. ages 26 to 30, 71%. this is something overwhelmingly americans and young people want to have access to. >> i hope that the white house -- i think the efforts coordinating with celebrities and others to try to encourage and incentivize young people to enroll is smart. i real issue is when you can show the low costs associated with purchasing health care, the new york example where an average family will see a big reduction in their health care costs, that's the story that needs to be put out across the country and urge states organizing their exchanges to watch examples of success. the quid's have for zeke is the white house has delayed the employer mandate component of the law. was that smart to do?

and if it was not, what should have been done? and two, what's the part in the bill that you think republicans are partially right on? is there something they're saying -- >> is there part of the bill -- >> what part do you think -- you and i have had the conversation. i'm just curious to know what part you think some of their criticism has some merit? >> i think the first point is the employer mandate was not crucial, was never considered crucial to the bill and getting people to sign up. because large corporations, over 50, by and large, 94%, 95% of them already offer insurance so that only a small number don't offer insurance. they tend to be smaller. it is not that large a number of people who are affected. remember, any employer with fewer than 50 employees there is no employer mandate to begin with so this is not that big an issue. i've written i just don't think it is going to affect the implementation of the law. it is much more posh to focus our attention into getting the exchanges up and running. it is hard to know what part of

the republican position has got merit because they're just negative on everything. they're not trying to be constructive here on the kind of system we could have. the irony here of course is that, having a marketplace where you have a lot of insurance companies. competing does drive down prices. you would think that's a thing the republicans would like to tout. competition in a marketplace, driving down prices, good for the american population. when the democrats take a playbook -- take a page out of republican playbook they don't seem to like it and i just don't get that. >> that holds true even for the individual mandate, jennifer, which is from the heritage foundation, unless i'm wrong. i wonder how you think this plays out electorally. you have now states like wisconsin and minnesota where one governor has chose ton basically cooperate with this, expanding medicaid roles and another governor hasn't. these are people separated by a few miles who will have dramatically different access to health care. >> the only way this truly

benefits democrats is if democrats make this a positive issue and go to the kind of voters who tend to drop off in mid-terms, to come out and vote. otherwise i think it gets dominated by republicans who have made enough of their own mistakes here to write a book about. >> zeke, you think this -- we have one more election where bomb care is an issue that voters take to the polls and then it will be actually what it is already, settled law of the land. >> i actually think by 2016 people are going to see that the premiums are lower, they're going to find the exchange is working well. then you're going to have people viewing it as a positive. you'll see democrats running on it as a strong positive. i think even in 2014 we're likely to get democrats running ton because premiums will be low. >> doc, it's always great to pay a visit to your office. >> it is great to be here. nice to see you, alex. >> always great to see you. thanks for your time. coming up, a great american past time is once again overshadowed by another. we will discuss the latest

former mvp to enter baseball's hall of shame and the dopes who dope. that's next. with the spark cash card from capital one... boris earns unlimited rewards for his small business. can i get the smith contract, please? thank you. that's three new paper shredders. [ boris ] put 'em on my spark card. [ garth ] boris' small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase every day. great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. read back the chicken's testimony, please. "buk, buk, bukka!" [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase every day. told you i'd get half. what's in your wallet? told you i'd get half. for a strong bag that grips the can... ♪ get glad forceflex. small change, big difference. ♪ "first day of my life" by bright eyes ♪

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the wheels turning behind the scenes, delivering for millions of americans, everyday. "dedication: that's the real walmart" last year milwaukee brewers mvt outfielder ryan brawn said he was willing to bet his life that he never used performance enhancing drugs. yesterday brawn released a statement apologizing for his use of performance enhancing drugs. "i realize now that i've made some mistakes. i am willing to accept the consequences of those actions." it won't cost him his life but he will miss the rest of the season and $3 million in salary. joining us, evan cohen. great to see you. what gives here? i think -- i mean the betrayal -- the double betrayal. one actually doping, two, lying when you may have actually been

caught and sort of this mea culpa, does the punishment fit the crime? >> you said it -- dope. that's a great word. not only for what he did but how he is acting. this guy denied this worse than anybody. this is the lance armstrong of major league baseball. not in terms of the significance, like alex rodriguez, he's the biggest name but braun denied this worse than anyone. he said how dare you ever accuse me of using performance enhancing drugs. he actually got the urine collector, the drug sample collector fired as a result of this because he said this guy screwed the whole thing up. well, no he didn't, you did. you're the one who denied it and he made everyone look bad. he threw so many people under the bus en route to trying to proclaim his innocence and clearly he is not innocent. >> harold ford, every time you're on the show, there is this doping scandal. >> i've been on the show -- every sports scandal you've covered from penn state to lance -- i mean -- >> you have been here. >> don't call me during football season. i don't want to come back on for

football season. >> this sort of sociopathic behavior, the denial, the denial, punishing of those who would seek to expose the crimes. what is that? >> evan, look. i think evan touched ton well. you think the way they are designing these drugs now, is it going to be better? will these guys be able to continue to escape scrutiny or has major league baseball mastered their testing pe ining techniques. >> the scientists and the chemists are always going to stay ahead of everyone else in terms of people tested. as long as there are new performance enhancing drugs and as long as a guy making over $100 million is only going to use $3 million, people will be log to do this. what major league baseball needs to do -- and i think major league baseball with this specific case did a good job. they lend credibility to a drug dealer by getting ryan braun to admit this, the guy who has dealt him the drugs, anthony bosh, is now credible. but what they need to do is make these contracts null and void. if someone is proven guilty of using performance enhancing

drugs, their contract needs to be null and void because that would scare them away from doing this. he still is scheduled to make nearly $20 million next season and the brewers can't do anything to him. >> they got him to 2020. >> yeah, forever, in theory. making a ton of money. >> he have been, is a-rod's career over? there's been almost epitaphs written in the sports pages about where he goes from here? >> this is going to sound odd. i think ryan braun ended a-rod's career. he gave this guy, bosh, credibility. when a-rod tries to fight this well he's making everything up about me, not really because ryan braun just confirmed that everything he said about ryan braun and everyone else seemingly is true. >> he's the floyd landis to -- >> who wasn't a great guy either. you get the point. >> dopes. >> that's your term. >> cape heart ahart are not all use performance enhancing drugs. >> we have tests after the show. >> urine tests.

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