rubio, rand paul, mike lee, ted cruz and a handful of other senators who sent a letter to harry reid this week saying, "we will not support any continuing resolution or appropriations legislation that funds further implementation or enforcement of obama care." also at the children's table, 69 house republicans. more than one-quarter of the conference who have signed a similar letter to speaker boehner. at the grown-up's table, majority whip john cornyn who dropped his support for the strategy after having "second thoughts." senator tom coburn who called the tactic a failed strategy. senator john mccain who said most americans are really tired of these kinds of shenanigans. congressman tom cole who called it the political equivalent of throwing a temper tantrum. senators ron johnson and roy blunt who each came out against the plan this week, and at the head of the adult's table, senator richard burr. >> i think it is the dumbest idea i've ever heard of. listen, as lon as barack obama's

president, the affordable care act is going to be law. >> but those tantrum throwers are not to be confused with the jedi council. that is, actually what they are calling themselves. a group of house republicans who have a different strategy -- hold the government hostage over obama care during the debt ceiling fight which is expected to happen a month after the deadline for a continuing resolution. but what's happening in congress right now doesn't necessitate jedi mind tricks. as norm onstein, a scholar with the conservative american enterprise interstatute writes in the national journal, what is going on now to sabotage obama care is not treasonous, just sharply beneath any reasonable standards of laefkted officials with the a fiduciary responsibility of governing. lawmakers can try to appeal a law when it is enacted, unless it becomes an effort at grandstanding. but to do everything possible to undercut and destroy its implementation is simply unacceptable, even contemptible.

joining me today, political editor and white house correspondent at the huffington "post," sam stein, who is also an msnbc contributor. >> yes, i am. >> that's a really long title. senior correspondent for "time" magazine, michael crowley. the host her own show right here, melissa harris-perry, and josh barrow. josh, to you first. you have written a piece, skeptical that this strategy is actually going to move forward in a meaningful way. >> yeah. i think it is an empty threat and i think there are lots of good reasons for republican members of congress to make empty threats, because they can get press attention and conservative news outlets, they can rile up -- >> and non-conservative news outlets. >> right. particularly ted cruz and rand paul want to go into t to the i caucuses in 2016 talking about how they were opponents. it would get ted cruz a lot of

attention with the people he's trying to appeal to. we've seen the more adult members of the republican senate conference being very publicly contemptuous of this strategy. they are tiger of having to do these sorts of things that tarnish the republican brand and make life more difficult for them. i think a lot of them really hate ted cruz personally. they find him irritating and obnoxious and he doesn't follow ruf rules of senate decorum, some of which are bad rules. >> because the house is so much better functioning? isn't collegiality sort of the last thing at the root of compromise at this point? >> except when collegiality leads to people in washington persisting and doing things that are bad for the country as a whole. i think we see this with the filibuster. the reason you haven't seen a change in the senate rules, a number of democrats around a long time in the senate have memories of the old days when the senators smoke cigars together and were friendly and wouldn't pass bills over each other's objections but then they

wouldn't raise unreasonable objections. i think a recognition of the new realities would be a good thing but that doesn't mean that ted cruz should be the person to bring about that change. >> sam -- i appreciate josh's assessment about adults and children and sort of wiser voices having a role in this debate. but one-quarter of the house republican caucus is signing on to this and i think, given the weakness of speaker boehner -- and you outlined this in your piece -- he would have to break the hastert rule in order to go forward with funding of obama care and a continuing resolution and i just question whether he's in a position to do that. there was a point at which it was said in all seriousness maybe we need to have a government shutdown to get it out of our system, or get it out of their system, which is -- i mean that's real talk. >> yes. i think i would caution that we're two months away from anything -- >> but nine legislative days on the calendar. >> true. but somehow things manage to get done at like the 11th hour always. but this is a lot of posturing.

different variables of what could affect which way these things go. my guess is that primarily just judge by the reaction to this thing in the senate that over time republicans will stop talking about defunding obama care in this specific pathway and then the real talk will be about the refls of appropriations for every other domestic priority which is substantially below even where they were established by sequestration. i think that's the much bigger hurdle here. not the obama care funding but the fact that the house republican appropriations process right now is going to keep sequestration in place and make it worse and i think that's unacceptable for a lot of democrats. i just did an interview with one who just said he wouldn't mind shutting down the government if they kept sequestration in place. >> i do want to touch on the obama care question, melissa, in terms of how this strategy plays out nationally. because marco rubio and his fellow republicans who want to create this hostage like situation, marco rubio says that the country is going to blame democrats. on fox news.com he said the

president and his allies and even some republicans will accuse us of shutting down the government. in fact it is president obama who insisted on shutting down the government. it is time to admit obama care is not going to work, decide not to waste a single cent more on it. this september may be the last chance to do anything about this disaster. >> this is one issue i take with the framing of issue of children and adults. children, once you have sort of set out the rules and say this is how it is will usually submit. it is giving children a bad name! if you ask kids should everybody have what's fair, even if they don't want to do it they usually will acknowledge, yeah, we should actually sort of all share the sandbox toys together here. this unwillingness i think is a kind of mean spiritedness that we typically don't see in kids but i do think that there's been a political lesson learned through sequestration and that is that the american public is not willing to immediately punish republicans for this bad

behavior. not even necessarily to hold them accountable. i don't think they are completely wrong when they say, there is a way that we can reframe this on our political opponents and that who suffers here are incumbents and incumbents -- certainly there are more republicans than democrats as incumbents but in this moment with the way things are drawn, there are still more vulnerable democrats. right? than there are vulnerable republicans. >> but there is a bit to tell about that rubio statement. i think republicans feel in a year or two the chances to repeal obama care will be tougher to take them away. they recognize this next election is probably the last -- >> it will be in place and they will specifically have to say it is time tend to the provision that allows children to be covered under their parents' plans. it is time to end the provision that prevents insurance companies from denying coverage to -- >> the disaster right now is speculative so they commission studies where they kind of rig the assumptions and they say this thing is going to ruin the

economy and explode the deficit. quite likely it may not be the scenario the white house wants us to believe, but it is probably not going to be a big disaster so they have leverage now where they can predict disaster where people will believe. >> then there is that question, right? assuming obama care, the aca, the settled law of the land goes forward -- i'm sure there will be hiccups and problems and so on and so forth, but assuming it gets rolled out and it is popular or people like parts of it, there is the record that the republicans now have. they have spent 15% of their time in the house trying to ruin the aca. they have voted 39 times to repeal it. they will then have the legacy of standing in the way of something that could end up actually being pretty popular. >> i think also they've been doing something to help the president politically unintentionally by talking about what a disaster it is going to be. there will be hiccups but to the extent that they are less crazy hiccups than the republicans have been suggesting or basically it is going to blow up

the whole country, they be it will actually look pretty good for the president. i think people will pretty quickly forget the 37 votes to repeal obama care. the political challenge that's going to come from republicans offense the next couple of years is going to be to deal with the fact that many states have not taken the medicaid expansion. there are going to be these lingering issues where you'll have hospital systems and people who would be eligible for medicaid coming to republicans officials saying why are you taking this money the federal government is sending to other states, why are we paying taxes -- >> why are we paying for poor californians? >> yes. i think it is going to be a rolling political problem for republicans but i'd disagree with sam's contention -- >> how dare you! >> -- that the odds -- >> that's the first time this has happened. >> i don't think the odds of repeal are going to decline in the dpfuture because the odds f repeal are already zero. the last chance for repeal was the election of

are trying to g party to understand. i think finally when the major provisions of obama care come into effect next year an people have health coverage, that's when republican elected officials will finally realize the fight for repeal is over but it is something that's needing to be explained to the party over and over. >> i just think, michael, that what sam outlines in terms of the doomsday scenario, if you will, over appropriations, and also the fact that there will be more of these fiscal sort of deadlines through the calendar. they use basically any leverage they have. i'm speaking about house republicans more than anyone else. is this now how we govern? and if it is, look, the republicans may lose on the obama care fight but broadly speaking in terms of our nation's finances and in terms of the budgets and as far as the programs we fund, they are actually winning in the broader longer spectrum. >> well, i think that's a good question and something from that norm ornstein quote where he said this doesn't meet the reasonable standards of governing. dou have a new classe. this applies to things like fill

busters and playing chicken with the debt ceiling. they're changing the standard. >> john boehner says he wants to degovern. >> but this is -- i think your point about the kind of long-term success that these sort of small losses or momentary losses on any given policy issue still add up to a win for changing our notion -- if your argument is government can't do anything for you, government is incompetent, and then you go and in fact make government incompetent, then you have fulfilled that very prophecy. >> even in terms of the debate -- we have to go to a break but sam, we talked about this yesterday -- the humongous argument over earned benefit reform, aka entitlement reform. that's something that republicans have pushed forward and none of the progressive voices who have actually cautioned as to whether we should really be doing that, that kind of reform and pushing for that kind of grand bargain at this moment in time. those voices have been completely marginalized. >> a study came out, cbs said if

you don't cancel sequestration in the next fiscal year you risk up to 1.6 million jobs. just think about that for a second. 1.6 million people who could be employed if not for this policy. we aren't even really talking about that that ot just on this panel. senate buddies john mccain and chuck schumer forge a productive bromance with white house chief of staff dennis mcdonough. we'll discuss the new power triangle and emphasis on compromise just ahead. [ tap ] [ tap ] ♪ 'cause tonight [ tap ] ♪ we'll share the same dream ♪ ♪ at the dark end of the street ♪

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how do you know when you finally found the one? for senators chuck shirm achume john mccain, it is when you share similar feelings about pastry. >> carl levin serves stale danish. >> every morning they'd go to karl levin's hideaway and every morning they'd be the same danish there from days or weeks before. >> one time we decided we should eat it to get fresh danish but -- >> we didn't. >> we will discuss danish diplomacy and the return of the mac next on "now." when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven.

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and a choice. take up to 6 tylenol in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. all aboard. ♪ the mac is back. john mccain's reemergence as dealmaker is sparking talk of a return of the maverick of yesteryear. mccain even has a new best buddy in the senate, chuck schumer.

>> the two of you get along. >> after a fashion. >> in a strange, unusual fashion, which my mother would fail to understand. >> hello, giggles. after bonding over karl levin's stale danishes, mccain and schumer now make up two-thirds of what politico describes as the new power triangle. one that's rounded by by white house chief of staff dennis mcdonough. the trio have so far twoshgd get an immigration bill through the senate, crafted a deal to avert the nuclear option on filibusters and are now in talks to head off a government shutdown in the fall. for some the new mccain is reviving memories of the old mccain, the captain of the straight talk express who gave the bush machine a scare in 2000 before being done in by their dark arts. mccain continued to buck his party after 2000 by voting against the bush tax cuts and supporting campaign finance reform. but eight years later mccain became the establishment running as a national security hawk against an up-and-comer born in

the '60s. >> it was a time of uncertainty, hope and change. the summer of love. half a world away, another kind of love -- of country. john mccain. shot down, tortured his philosophy before party, polls and self -- america. a maverick. >> in that campaign maverick was thrown off the bus and sarah palin was given the seat. these days with thoughts toward legacy and no primary to get in the way, mccain has repositioned smacking down conservative whack co-birds and playing nice with democrats. >> when president bush was president and i said rumsfeld ought to resign, i voted against the bush tax cuts, i was a brave maverick that we all loved and admired. then president obama was elected and obama care is the first agenda item out of the box and i fought tooth and nail against it. well, it's the grumpy old man. it was both a mischaracterization as both

ends. i've always been result oriented. >> always been results oriented, sam. but i do like the self-avowed grumppy old man behavior. i guess he sort of walked that back. but my question to you is, is the old mccain back and how much of this is going to affect the way politics are conducted? >> i just can't get over how cute those two are. >> they are really cute together. >> adorable. is the old mccain back? what was the old mccain? i think he's sort of an impulsive guy, an impulsive politician as well. i don't think that this is happening by accident though. i think that the third prong in this is dennis mcdonough and he's spent a good deal of time courting mccain as a legislative partner. it wasn't that long ago it was mccain and i believe dianne feinstein that accompanied dennis mcdonough on a trip to guantanamo. you know when are you in that plane with just two other people, that's the best time to do legislative business. you start talking to them in real human-to-human interactions.

this is by design, not by accident or chance here. >> to me, this in a certain way smacks of the concern were you raising earlier about collegiality on the one hand turning into a kind of clubbiness that feels from the outside for observers as though -- i mean there's something about seeing those two together on one hand you could say, we aren't going to demonize one another, we can have the ability to talk, maybe move legislation through. but then wait a minute, i have real issues, real concerns, i need a job, my kid needs quality schools, what's going on with obama care and you guys are kind of giggling over danishes and it makes you feel a little bit as though you are being gofrvernedy this 1% who when they are performing are performing egregiously performing and when they are performing friendly -- i mean i do think there is a way that that clubbiness doesn't feel all authentic bipartisan opportunity. >> right. i think the thing is though to get to that clubbiness, which in and of itself is not free from

indictment, you have to not be running for office. mccain is effectively insulated right now. if you look at what's happening to mitch mcconnell, i don't know if he doesn't like stale danish as much as chuck schumer, but he's made deals in the past but is getting on open letter, senator mcconnell's progressive liberal voting record has absolute iron fists rule over the republican party in kentucky and his willingness to roll over and krechlt de power to president obama and liberal in washington prove that is he no friend to the american people or the citizens of the commonwealth of kentucky. mitch mcconnell is somehow a progressive liberal. >> well, it's topsy-turvy times. >> or maybe bizarre world. >> i think there are clubs with within clubs.

the washington elected members of congress and the power elite are a club but there's a club within that club which is people who have been in washington for a while, like mccain and schumer, who see these insolent upstarts coming in. they haven't been around, they don't know how the city works, they've never had to do a deal. i think there is this interesting reaction to the republican kind of tea party base happening and i think in a way it is kind of driving mccain to the center. mccain is being moderated by what he perceives as the wacko birdness of the party base. so the club here is the guys who have been around forever and they're sick of not ever getting anything done, not getting to put their name on any bills and that's i think a key dynamic. >> i can't stress enough i think the fact that the primary challenge is obviously huge motivator in the house but increasingly in the senate, too. lindsey graham is being called by tea party challenger -- graham is a community organizer

for the muslim brotherhood in the middle east and is not concerned about have your -- >> i think with mccain he likes this impulsiveness, he likes his ego being stroked. but the sequester cuts, half of them come out of the defense budget. idea when the sequester was conceived was that it was supposed to be so terrible for both the right and the left that it could never be allowed to become law. then the compromise was struck, was no, nobody can come up with anything they like better so we'll let it become law and that's acceptable to a lot of people on the hill but it is really unacceptable to john mccain. both he and the president would really like to come up with a deal to replace the sequester and it's given him an incentive to cozy up to democrats. and work with some people like lindsey graham. >> which "cozy up," we mean talk to. i think we allow ourselves to be hijacked by this narrative that you are cozying up to narratives if you are talking to the white house about matters of national import. >> it is not just talking. the end game for mccain is to come up with a big fiscal deal that does things that conservatives would really

dislike because it would unwind part of the sequester. mccain i think cares much less about the total size of the federal budget or budget deficit than he does about spending a lot of money on the defense department. this substantive disagreement is showinggiggling over danish. while the sequester is a bad structure, i think the fact it's finally found a way to shrink the defense budget is a a good thing. if you get a mccain-style deal to replace it, it may also mean a lot more spending on the military. >> i don't know if i'm necessarily taking comfort in the stale danish coalition but i do think, melissa, i actually don't take comfort in it because what i see is that you can only actually legislate or govern or even do the worst parts of governing which is to say back patting and back room deals and all that when you are not being challenged. if you are running for office and you are a republican, there is such a fear about getting

primaried and people saying you are a part of the muslim brotherhood or a progressive liberal when you are the farthest thing from that, that you can no longer legislate even as a republican. >> part what have makes that so warped is we ought to expect that regular, free and fair elections in a democracy would make our elected officials more accountable, more competent and more capable. the issue is that it's not just sort of primarying and like, oh, the people your district. american politics 101, the people of your district will find out that you've done something not in their interest and then the people of your district will throw up a different leader. that we ought to expect and want and should encourage that sort of primary. what we're talking about is the warping of that system that occurs when there is an enormous amount of money in sort of small pockets that can be used over and against the particular interests of the constituents. >> it's not even necessarily -- in some cases it may be as sinister as big money.

it may be that the primary isn't that interesting to a lot of the people in the district or state. it is the primary's interesting to people who read conservative blogs and listen to talk radio hosts who tell them crazy things about lindsey graham's secret ties to the muslim brotherhood and you get a low turnout primary where something really wacky can happen and so these members of congress are -- have to be aware of the tiny slice of the population -- it is not just money. primary system has a squall where have you a very small turnout and very intense people. >> that's why you see danish summits in the senate and not the house. right? >> because they're always running. >> well, they are. >> they are and they also have gerrymander districts that requires them this to not do the danish summits. >> so clearly we need to get rid of the house of representatives. >> ordainish. >> or create term limits. >> or make it easier to vote in primaries. a lot of reforms to the primary system i think actually would help. >> or make it way harder for everybody to vote in

gerrymandered districts. coming up, anthony weiner is still running for mayor and now the former congressman is facing dwindling poll numbers and new questions about exactly how many women he sent lewd messages to. >> it's not dozens and dozen. it is six to ten, i suppose. but i can't tell you absolutely what someone else is going to consider inappropriate or not. >> were they sexual? how many conversations did you have with women after you resigned that were sexual in nature? >> i don't believe i had any more than three. >> six? ten? yes. anthony weiner is still running for mayor. that's next. with the spark miles card from capital one, bjorn earns unlimited rewards for his small business. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve unlimited rewards.

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anthony weaner is still in the race for mayor. as the number of anthony weiner

sextings continuing to multiple, wiebe b weern wiener's numbers with new yorkers is another story. 's dropped nine points from last month and his rival holds a nine-point lead. when it turns out, when you incessantly text nudie photos to young women you meet on the internet, then apologize, then run for mayor, people don't like it, especially the elderly. senior citizens in new york are not impressed with wiener's behavior on the internet. like an 84-year-old new yorker said, "i don't know what to think. it is very strange. he's so young." said 80-year-old marilyn, "most of the women feel like i do but most of the men -- eh." after the break, more on the gop and their problem with race. play close.

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equality may be gaining momentum, but don't tell that to the gop. the deep split between the two parties is no more clear than in the u.s. senate where only three democrats oppose same-sex marriage, and only three republicans support it. while the democratic party appears to have crossed the rubicon on marriage equality, it's becoming increasingly clear that for now at least no republicans with dreams of 2016 dare dip their toes in the water. that was evident last month when new jersey governor chris christie surprised many with his attack on the supreme court's ruling on doma. >> the ruling wasn't appropriate. i think it was wrong and i think it is just another example of judicial supremacy rather than having the government run by the people we actually vote for so i thought it was a bad decision. >> in a bid to move the party more in the direction of modernity, republican street gist steve schmidt has signed on to the aclu to take part in a $106 million campaign to help bring republicans along on the issue of same-sex marriage but

it won't be easy. this sunday on the christian broadcasting network, rnc chair rens prebusiness was reminding all the tolerance talk was giving evangelicals the heby jeebies. >> i don't care for the word tolerance. i don't have a problem with it, i just think it has another meaning that politically that can go the other direction. >> joining the panel now, executive director of the aclu, anthony ramiro. thanks for joining us. >> of course. thank you. >> your pal steve schmidt is somewhere in the ether world. >> he's working. >> start with the issue of tolerance. speaking from the vantage point of the aclu and speaking to the issue of gay marriage, given the work at hand -- >> i think we have to send haim dictionary so he could look up the word tolerance.

for a christian evangelical to not know -- has he forgotten the do unto others as you would have them do unto you? come on. he doesn't speak for the republican party. republican party is not a monolith. they're filled with people of good faith, of good will who are coming along, who are evolving, just like our president evolved. so the fact is that we're trying to find a way to work with republicans at all levels and we'll find allies. we have allies like steve schmidt, allies like jimmy la sylvia, a tea party member also on our payroll -- a member of the tea party? >> you emphasize -- >> they exist. i was shocked. i said you remember the tea party, you believe in marriage equality? absolutely. how many of you are there? he said 10,000. i'm like, you got to work with us. >> your point on the president's evolution is such an important one. you sensed the reticence on the part of this president to be very clear on the issue of marriage equality. we know was the vice president

who sort of jumped the gun. >> thank god for joe biden. never thought i'd say that. but that said, part of what he learned and i think some of us learned as a result of that is that precisely the communities some thought would reject the president for that leadership, he actually ended up being a leader, this sort of last moment when folks had been thinking and considering and they said, well, the president's going there, i can go there, too and it is evidence of the possibility of leadership. >> i think that's happening in the republican party. that's why steve schmidt is so amazing. >> speaking of steve schmidt, i think we have him joining us from sacramento, an msnbc contributor, steve schmidt, we were talking about you only in glowing terms and -- but we were expecting some reticence over whether the republican party is truly moving towards, a, modernity, and a more tolerant future. the rnc chair said this week he's not a fan of the word "tolerance," and i guess as we talk about something like gay marriage where we feel like

there is a sense that america is becoming a more embracing, more tolerant country, i'm not so sure the republican party is moving in a parallel fashion. >> well, look, alex. there's been very fast progress on this issue. it wasn't very long ago that president obama was not in favor of marriage equality. at beginning of this year, there were zero u.s. senators in the republican party who were in favor of marriage equality. now there are three. anthony's exactly right when he says the republican party, the view expressed by rieince priebs is not monolithic. in new hampshire, you had more republican votes as a function of the size of the majority but more republican votes than democratic votes on the question of marriage equality in the state legislature. so as you survey the landscape in the country on this issue, as this battle now moves to the states, the notion that the

republican party is a monolithic blocking force i just think is simply not true. you will see more and more republican leaders in the congress, in the state legislature, coming forward to demand, i think, what is part of the historic legacy of the republican party, which is equality for all of our citizens. >> look, i share in the hope of that, steve. but this is not been a particularly tolerant week for republicans on a number of issues and i will bring up steve king's comments about young dreamers, people -- children brought here illegally by their parents. he said, again i will repeat it for everyone who hasn't heard this sound bite -- for every dreamer who is a valedictorian, there's another 100 out there who weigh 130 pounds and have calves the size of cantaloupes because they're hauling 75 pounds of marijuana across the desert. there may be republicans in new hampshire and in other parts of the country that are tolerant but there seems to be an incredibly voek -- i don't know whether it is minority, but part

of the party that's dominating the national conversation in a really divisive way. >> part of the reason why we are so thrilled to work with steve, he'll help us identify folks in the field who with a little bit of help and with some solidarity from folks like steve, give them cover to come out. i was struck by steve when he came out in 2009, not an easy time, way before our president, spoke out for marriage equality. that's when he popped on my screen. and when we were clear that we won the doma case in the supreme court, edie windsor was our client. we knew we'd have to fight state by state. we said we have to work with republicans. not work around or talk at. that's when we reached out to steve and said can you help us. i actually think there's much more power of some of these arguments. make the business argument for a second. why would i as a small business owner sitting in virginia with a bed and breakfast decide to keep my business and my money in virginia if i could move to washington, d.c. right across the river and get full federal benefits including the benefits of income tax laws, inheritance,

visiting my partner. we'll make the chambers of commerce -- they think gays have economic powers? well, let's make those arguments. why would you stay in new jersey, where i currently live in jersey city. why would i stay in jersey city if i move to brooklyn, which is where i'm moving, where i have better economic benefits in brooklyn than staying in new jersey? >> it's true. sam? >> i think steve's actually right on this in that we've seen -- it is hard to overstate how much movement we've seen in the past couple years. there will never and time again where a democratic presidential candidate will run on anything other than full support of marriage equality. already in the aftermath of the 2012 election, i remember going to the c pack convention and marco rubio had a very interesting phrase, "just because i support a state's right not to sanction same-sex marriage doesn't make me a bigot." inherent in that statement is that every state should have the on the to choose --

>> his use of the word bigot -- >> i don't know if i'm quoting correctly or not. i just want to say, leaving it up to the states to craft their own law is a movement for republicans from where they were even just a year ago when they wanted a blanket opposition to gay marriage. >> i think we are focusing a little bit too much on the substance of the issue here. for republican elected officials i think of mostly they just desperately want. this issue to go away. a lot of them don't have strong personal feelings on either way. they are facing pressures, they're hearing from business people, from the media, from their own children, from shifting public opinion, people want marriage equality but it is still unpopular in a republican primary. i think what people like chris christie want is a way for this to be taken off their plate without ever having to take a stance on the issue. my question for steve is how do you change the incentive landscape for republican legislators so that they think that the reasons to support marriage equality, political reasons, are stronger than the reasons to go against. you saw state senators in new york who voted for it, then lost

primaries. how do you change it so that they are more afraid to say no than to say yes? >> if you look at the hundreds of republican legislators that have voted in favor of marriage equality you can arguably point to maximum of two where they were impacted by it and they lost seats in a republican primary. and so despite the noise in ohio and the threats directed at senator rob portman, the fact is that rob portman in coming out for marriage equality will be held harmless by the republican primary electorate. he doesn't lose his seat. so when people see members of congress see that their colleagues who have been in favor of marriage equality don't suffer a political penalty for it, i think you'll see more an more come out. politicians have a finely tuned instinct for self-preservation and the reality is that just a few short years ago, people when they would go out an talk about this issue, they would say marriage is between a man and a woman and they'd get cheers in the middle of the electorate, the whole dynamic has changed

and that doesn't get you cheers in the middle of the electorate anymore and there is no up side to going out and i think picking fights with the gay community on this issue. that's why so many republican politicians simply don't want to talk about the issue anymore. that is the middle ground in the journey between being against something to migrating to being for something. let's just stop talking about it. we don't want to talk about it. it is a distraction issue anymore. so i think that you will see this issue continue to evolve. i think the reality is that the next republican nominee will be opposed to marriage equality but i don't think the one after that is going to be and i think that's the direction that the country is moving on. i hope more an more republicans will choose to get on the right side of history on this issue and i think you'll see that happening over the next couple of years. >> anthony? >> i think for us, the key thing is what steve just said. the idea that we can get -- if we can get folks to be neutral or say nothing, that's success. >> the only thing i don't want to lose here, just from -- when

alex read the piece here from king about the dreamers, part of it was so difficult and -- like in that week that was so exciting about doma and prop 8, it came at the end of that affirmative action and voting rights act week. so part of my anxiety here is just the way in which -- i don't want to see a disillusion of the progressive coalition at the same time that there is an attempt to reach into the republican party. because if the idea is to make the argument specifically around a kind of upper middle class frame for -- >> i hear you. i hear you. >> -- for marriage equality and then you miss that this was a coalition that first came together with dreamers and black folks an young people and if all of those people can get screwed while they sort of move to a neutral position -- >> i'm totally with you. look, it was bittersweet. week we won doma, the day before we lost the voting rights act. we vs to also understand those are terrible losses that have enormous impact on people. >> huge. >> i think the key thing is though, the law is all interconnected. this is one place i do agree with justice scalia.

if can you push an equal protection argument to protect lgbt across this country, we are helping latinos, we are helping african-americans, we are helping women. you are establishing a standard which you're reaching out to a different community was never covered by the protection of equal protection of the law. >> but it is worth noting that gay rights may lead the path for women's rights and the rifts minorities. which we thought -- and i think to some degree had hoped was a closed chapter in american society, the fact that the gay rights frontier must now sort of be like leading the charge for equality on a host of other issues where we thought it was settled law. >> i think the key thing for us working with steve is to find a way to get this issue either neutralized where it is really highly charged to moving forward where we can move it, to finding disparate and different voices, that not every puppet or every spokesperson in washington speaks for their constituents, to get the young people turning out, to show that there is a

diversity of viewpoint. the same way that we see the diversity of viewpoint within the democratic party. even in the last several years. to have that type of diversity from business leaders, from younger people, for having folks who understand and say, well, it is not the way i want to live my life but the law is the law and let's just give them equal protection of the law. >> and if it is an entry point to curbing and combating other forms bigotry and denial of equal rights then let's go for it. steve schmidt, thank you, sir, out there. is it california or outer space? >> i'm in nevada. >> nevada. >> close to california. >> thank you, steve. thank you to the aclu's anthony ramiro. >> thank you for having me. we'll have a live report from cairo when we return after the break. being sixteen, alex thinks he's invincible. his dad knows he's not. that's why dad got allstate accident forgiveness. it starts the day you sign up. [ female announcer ] with accident forgiveness from allstate,

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there are reports today that former egyptian president

mohamed morsi has been formally charged with espionage and ordered to be detained for 15 days. morsi is accused of collaborating with hamas to carry out hostile acts in the country. the charges come as protesters launch new demonstrations across egypt today. cairo's tahrir square, thousands of flag wavers are gathering in support of the military which overthrew morsi earlier this month. the ministry of health says at least two dozen people have been injured in the protests. joining us now from cairo, nbc news foreign correspondent eaa n muhyeldin. give us the latest. >> reporter: there's two massive rallies taking place, one that's endorsed by the military and called for by the military, the other by the muslim brotherhood in supporters of the ousted president. so far from these clashes, one protester has been killed in alexandria, more than 80 have been injured in those clashes. there have been other skirmishes

in other parts of cairo but the attention shifts in the coming hours as we tensions continue to mount between protesters. the military is on a very high state of alert especially after president morsi today was ordered to remain in custody for an additional 15 days. that's going to newell that fire a little bit even more. alex? >> nbc's ayman muhyeldin live in cairo, stay safe. thank you to our panelists. that's all for "now." "andrea mitchell reports" is next.

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one woman on the jury though now speaks out about george zimmerman prompting new outrage today. like father, like son. edward snowden's father defends his son in a "today" show exclusive with matt lauer. >> i believe that my son when he takes his final breath, whether it's today or 100 years from now, he will be comfortable with what he did because he did what he knew was right. he shared the truth with the american people. the circus is in town. the press has a field day with anthony weiner's latest admissions. i'll talk to the woman now leading the polls, mayoral candidate, new york city council speaker christine quinn. flash point egypt. violent clashes in cairo today after the court orders the arrest of former president morsi