stay tuned, chris matthews and "hardball" is next. weiner weary and stay classy san diego. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. the new yorker magazine for next week has anthony weiner mounted up on the empire state building tv helicopters swarming around and above as he takes pictures of the tower's pinnacle. it wouldn't be -- it would be hilarious if it weren't for the fact it's dominating democratic politics in this world. weren't we the country that taught the world that people had the brains and judgment to pick their own leaders? didn't we say, certainly churchill did that democracy is the best form of government.

yet, here we are watching this guy at the top of the empire state building contending still he wants to be mayor and leader of the world's greatest metropolis, the center of the consciousness of the universe. the circus has come to town. the question is, when is it going to leave? meanwhile out on the west coast, a real live mayor already elected is taking two weeks for therapy after dramatic charges for sexual misbehavior in the workplace, charges for which he now asks forgiveness. finally some good news for weiner, a brief eclipse of the sun in which a solar system in which he has been the moon of the hour. steve kornacki and kelly goff. kelly, i think you're on this beat. let's take a look at this woman, her name is sydney leathers. i guess that's her real name on "inside edition." here's what she had to say.

>> i felt manipulated. >> why? >> because obviously, i felt like you know, he's saying one thing to me, saying another thing to his wife, saying another thing on the campaign trail. i don't know who the real anthony weiner is i guess. i really truly believe that he needs some help. and i'm not saying that in a condescending way. i really think that he has some issues that he needs to work out. and i don't think he's fit to be mayor of new york city. >> when did things turn dark and dirty? >> very quickly. >> who prompted that? >> him. >> so anthony weiner moved your conversation from professional to dirty? >> yes. >> well, that's putting it directly. let me go to kelly on this. you know, i guess i don't like the line of questioning. i guess it's inevitable what happened here. you ask is this guy decent enough to be mayor. today he says once again he's running for mayor of new york. what he wants is a promotion. let's not forget, he was a u.s.

congressman, one of dozens in the new york area. now he wants to be the job he always wanted. he wants a promotion because of all the mess he's caused here. spitzer is coming on the show on monday. at least he understands the need for demotion from governor to. -- this guy wants to be rewarded and he says if you don't forgive me and reward me and make me mayor, there's something wrong with you. you're being judgmental and weird. if you don't back me, you got a problem. >> i think the one quote on twitter said it best, when did new yorkers' self-esteem become so low we decided anthony weiner is the mayor we deserve? that that kind of says it all. >> tell me why 16% of the people after they knew about this, which is a big chunk of votes in a city where christine quinn wien this windfall of good news for her has only got a quarter of the votes. he's still in the running based upon the latest polling.

i mean that. he could get second or a strong third. he could still win this thing. i don't care what anybody says. there will people that will say you know i'd prefer mr. weiner. what are they talking about. >> when i first got out of college, i worked as an operative in new york politics. what's going on, chris, there's a very strong abq contingent in new york, that's anybody but quinn. we could have a separate conversation why that is. what i've heard from a lot of people, they're trying to hence their bets on which candidate they think is most likely to take out kristin quinn. for some, they think weiner may still be that guy for fund-raising and other reasons. that's why it's still a split vote here. you didn't see immediate evaporation of his support. >> what's the knock on quinn? >> a lot of people feel she's responsible for giving mayor bloomberg a third term. >> they voted for him a third term. the people voted -- they had an

election in new york and bloomberg won it. >> can i say i got done writing about this because of bill thompson. bill thompson was outspent 10-1. president obama would not campaign for bill thompson and thompson still came within less than 5% of beating mayor bloomberg. >> i've said that before, kelly. he ran a hell of a race. i urged one of my kids to vote for him. i think he ran a heroic campaign against big bucks. bloomberg is very competitivetant. he doesn't embarrass anybody. he does the job. his politics have always been in the middle. i don't think he's that bad of a mayor. i don't know where i would vote if he ran against this field. looks pretty good, doesn't he? >> there's a lot of people who had a real issue with the third term overturning the charter and the whole thing. the giuliani fiefdom sense of a boy king. that was where some of the resentment for quinn comes from. >> steve, hillary clinton's

closest to weiner's wife. i think the question -- here's what is jim manley said, a respected guy in washington, a former top aide to senators ted kennedy and hairy reid. he said he could be a ticking time bomb threatening the clinton brand. the fact that weiner continues to run continues to put the clintons in a tough position. he's a mini weapon of mass destruction ready to blow up any second. your thoughts on that? >> he is ready to blow up any second. you're talking about the 2016 presidential race. we're talking about july, 2013 right now with the. >> suppose he wins. >> okay. then he's a ticking time bomb that could have long-term implications. there's a greater likelihood he'll lose the preliminary in september and he's going to be an after thought by 2016. if you want anthony weiner off the stage, that's the best thing you can hope for is he stays in this race and doesn't just lose in september, he loses badly and comes in near the back of the pack, a way to get him off the

stage for good. >> steve, you work for msnbc now. is your opinion he's really out of it? he's not going to be laeked? >> i think so. before this week, i think there was a very real chance he could have won this week. we looked how high his negative numbers were before this week. he improved significantly as i an candidate. his negative numbers were on par with christine quinn's. no, he will not win now. >> kelly, are you still live reporting straight here? you capital give us the verdict on and what i'm looking for on the show, what's going on? >> i think anthony weiner is as likely to become mayor as i am. i'm not running. >> i think you would be in the running. thank you, kelly goff and steve kornacki. from the east coast, a growing scandal. maybe it's topped already out on the west coast. remember the anchorman who said stay classy san diego? there are women now on the

record on tape five of them that i can count accusing san diego mayor bob filner of sexual misconduct in the office. on monday, his former communications director filed a lawsuit against him and spoke to the media about some of his conduct. listen closely to this, these are accusations. he hasn't denied them which is interesting. listen to this graphic information we're about to get how the this fellow behaves at work. >> i was placed in in the filner head lock and moved around as a rag doll while he whispered sexual comments in my ear. mayor filner challenged me to give him one example of how his behavior towards me was improper. i pointed out that he had asked me to work without my underwear on. he had no comeback. >> well, the head lock ought to grab your attention. who is this guy, godzilla? yesterday four more women came

forward with their own stories all on the record on tape about the mayor they worked for or worked with. here they are. >> he came up to me after the event was over. i was talking with friends. and he came up and gave me a hug and then he touched me actually groped me on my backside inappropriately. >> he's held me too tight. kiss on the cheek which is inappropriate. hand on the knee that lasted too long. >> on numerous occasions, he's put me in what i guess mou is the famous head lock and he would come in and try and kiss me on the lips and i'd have to squirm to get away. and just as recently as a few months ago, this happened. and i turned and he just slobbered down my chin and i was so violated and i was so offended. >> as we were leaving the office, all the guys left. and i was the last one in the room. and bob stepped between me and the doorway and he stopped me. and he got very close to me. and he ran his finger up my

cheek like this. and he whispered to me, do you have a man in your life? >> this afternoon, filner, the mayor, spoke to the press apologizing for his conduct and announcing he was entering a counseling clinic for a couple weeks. he said he's not stepping down. here he is. >> let me be absolutely clear. the behavior i have engaged in over many years is wrong. my failure to respect women and the intimidating contact i engage in at times is inexcusable. beginning on august 5th, i will be entering a behavior counseling clinic to undergo two weeks of intensive therapy to begin the process of addressing my behavior. this intensive counseling will just be the first step in what will be a continuing program that will involve on going regular counseling. i must become a better person. >> joining us now is the city

council president. you probably have a clear picture of the way he behaves in the office and how he deals with men and women. does this all surprise you? is this old school behavior? he seems to put it in the category of old school 20, 30 years ago behavior. but the head lock and grabbing the leg, i don't think that was acceptable, i don't think going back to the madmen era you could do that stuff and not have people think it was appropriate. your thoughts. >> you're right, chris. this was never acceptable behavior. it's not acceptable today. and to what observations i've had, we've had a number of run-ins with our mayor. he had one of our deputy city attorneys forcibly removed from a closed session meeting of the council after a verbal altercation. the gentleman runs a very hot and so we're not necessarily surprised by this inappropriate behavior. what we are surprised by is the level of harassment, the lack of consent with these women and the fact that it has very real serious implications now to the city in the form of lawsuits coming forward.

>> should he be removed? >> he absolutely should. myself and a super majority of our city council said he must resign. just last night, the democratic party has called on the mayor to resign. this is significant. >> what are the procedures for removing him? >> we only have two available. one is for him to resign which is what he should do. the other is a recall process which is lengthy, expensive and uncertain. that's why so many of us are calling on him to resign to end the civic nightmare as quickly as possible and let us move on. >> do you think it's a matter of controllable behavior which he might be able to manage after two weeks of therapy, doesn't seem like enough to fix anybody, do you think it's possible he would be correctable? >> i don't. i don't understand how in 2013, you have to be educated what appropriate behavior is with women. and he clearly has a problem with women. is he more or less admitted it. he said to a reporter he has a monster living within him. >> you believe he's

incorrigible. >> if it is fixable, let him do that, but let him do it on someone else's dime. we are america's finest city, the eighth largest city in this country. we need a mayor who can run the city. this one can't. >> todd gloria. stay classy, san diego. and a programming note, monday on "hardball," we're joined by eliot spitzer. can't wait for this. we'll have a very interesting discussion within bounds. i think there's some questions he's got to answer about his decision to run for public office again. we'll ask him about that. coming up, another civil war in the republican party. this time it's the hawks versus the doves. new jersey's chris christie slammed rand paul, the party's fronts runner all the polls saying the debate he's leading over privacy when it comes to fighting terrorists is down right, it's his word, dangerous. he's picking a fight in the republican party. it the republican party however still the hawk party it was under w? i'm not so sure. plus, what are we to make of the juror in the zimmerman case out there saying the defendant got

away with murder? she says in her heart, zimmerman was guilty. she voted to acquit. based on the evidence and under the law, she said she had to. now she feels she owes the martin family an apology? why would she apologize if she felt the verdict was correct? and the latest report in our unkindest cut series. how the across the board spending cut known as the sequester is costing america $1.6 million jobs. let me finish tonight with the republican civil war over war. and this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ male announcer ] a doctor running late for a medical convention loses his computer, exposing thousands of patient records to identity theft. data breaches can happen that easily. we don't believe you should be a victim of someone else's mistake. we're lifelock. we constantly monitor the web so if any of your personal information is misused, we're on it. ♪ ow. [ male announcer ] call 1-800-lifelock

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welcome back to "hardball." hawkish foreign policy has been an ideological hallmark of the republican party for years now. from the reagan days of military involvement in lebanon and grenada, to bush senior's first gulf war to w's bush doctrine, war on terror and the invasion of iraq. the party's core identity all these years. it's the calling card internationalism and interventionism. but a new libertarian wing of the republican party has exploded onto the scene in recent years, led by fire brands like rand paul, they've risen to power by preaching our national interest does not lie in those wars of choice.

they filibuster against the use of drones, fighting the nsa, they want no part of the war in syria or revolution in egypt. their weaponry lies with a strict reading of the constitution, no the a loose international notion or interpretation of national security. that will split in the republican party isn't sitting well with chris christie, is the republican rising star from new jersey. he took aim at rand paul in speaking at the republican governor's forum just yesterday. >> this strain of libertarianism that's going through both parties right now and making big headlines i think is a very dangerous thought. >> senator rand paul, for example. >> you can name any number of people and he's one of them. i mean these esoteric intellectual debates, i want them to come to new jersey and sit across from the widows and the orphans and have that conversation. and they won't. because that's a much tougher conversation to have. >> well, paul, that's the

senator from kentucky, fought back today saying on twitter that "christie worries about the dangers of freedom. i worry about the danger of losing that freedom. spying without warrants is unconstitutional. well, is the hawkish wing of the republican party starting to fade? will democrats be able to capitalize on this new division in the gop? i'm fascinated by it myself. david axelrod, be a political analyst and a former senior advisor to president obama and carly fee orrin know is a former senate republican candidate out in california. thanks for joining us. let me start with this. we've run through the history of the republican party. david, and clearly they have been if you have to argue back and forth, they're the more hawkish party, the democrats more dovish. lear cannily the issue of the war in iraq are a war of choice was a key issue i believe and i believe you know was a key factor in the strong political run by president obama back in '08, starting in 2004. do you think the republican party is having guilt about the war in iraq they now feel is

unpopular that they're beginning to think this instinctive call to arms, engagement in countries like syria, and lebanon won't pay off at the ballot box? >> first of all, i would quibble with one point which is there has been over time taft and others in the past, there's been a strain of isolationism in the republican party. it's resurge be the now represented by this tea party faction. of course, the reality is we have to find the right place between these two points of view. there are times when we have to act in order to preserve the safety of the american people, but we can't intervene everywhere. it seems like paul and christie may be moving to stake out, you know, the polls of this debate. and the sweet spot is the middle. that's where most americans are. >> let me go to carly. thanks for joining us. let's take a look at something that happened in the election back in 2008. not 100 years ago.

this is when during the debate when ron paul, the father who has the same policy as his son, when he came out in 2007 and basically took on the issue of why we're getting so hawkish and rudy, who didn't end up winning because he was pro-choice jumped on him like a hawk. it was quite a scene. i wonder if this could be repeated today the same way. here it is. >> we need to look at what we do from the perspective of what would happen if somebody else did it to us. >> are you suggesting we invited the 9/11 attacks, sir? >> i'm suggesting that we listen to the people who attacked us and the reason they did it. >> may i make a comment on that? that's an extraordinaire statement. that's ta extraordinaire statement as someone who lived through the attack of september 11 that we invited the attack because we were attacking iraq. i don't think i've heard that before. and i've heard pretty absurd explanations for september 11th. >> carly, your view on this, hawk or dove? which way is the party heading?

because the democratic party has been pretty happy with its general position as opposing the war in iraq while being very tough on al qaeda. so there's been a bit of a division and emphasis there. different i think than president w. bush. >> well, i think we're conjoining a couple things here. the data point that i would offer up is that the majority of americans today think that edward snowden is a whistleblower, not a traitor. and i this i what that data point tells you is that people actually are quite troubled. on the one hand, people want to be safe and they understand that be government is engaged in activities to keep us safe that they didn't used to be. on the other hand, they worry about a government that has vast power that we don't know about and government agencies that we cannot evetively hold accountable. that's a different issue than whether or not you believe we should have been in iraq or not, and there the splits have always existed in the parties. >> where are you on those issues? the speaker of the house came

out the other day and led the republican party in fighting not to restrict the nsa. he's very comfortable with the security approach that's more hawkish. where are you on surveillance and wars like iraq? >> i believe. >> you're a big republican. >> i believe that we have to ask now fundamental questions. and i actually would hope that as david axelrod suggested, there is some middle ground here and actually some ground for bipartisan agreement. the big fundamental question is, how do we hold these bureau crasscies accountable? how do we know they are not abusing their power. >> how do we know that they are competent and ethical? these are huge questions. when the government now has such incredible power, power that we didn't even understand they had six months ago we ought to be asking those fundamental questions. >> let me get back to you in a minute. here's my general question. should the united states be primarily concerned with its own

defense? do we have to be careful we don't get invaded and two days later say somebody says if we'd only done one thing because we're concerned about civil liberties. >> if you come out what looks to be an argument and you didn't use that power, you're dead politically in this country if you get attacked. >> chris, i worked 20 feet from the oval office for years and i saw the president the national security team grapple with a very real threat of attack. and the tools that are there that the nsa provided were important in thwarting some of those attacks. if we hadn't done it, then we would indeed have had more catastrophic kinds of attacks. i think people would have been outraged about it we have to be careful how we do that, and what the president suggested is that's why we have to have the involvement of all three branches of government. the answer is not to scrap the intelligence gathering that has

demonstrably helped keep the american people safer. >> i don't like this. >> trisha: i'm not comfortable with you two agreeing so much. i think i know the answer with david and that is this. do you think it was a good thing for america to invade, attack and to overrun and occupy iraq in 2003? was that a smart move? or a mistake? >> i think it was a grave mistake when we were attacked not to go after the people who attacked us but to divert our attention to iraq at great cost of lives and resources while bin laden and the and the people who attacked us went free for years. and so yes, i think it was a big mistake. i don't think that sort of reflexive of interventionism reflexive attack is the answer to every threat in the world. on the other hand, there are real threats we have to respond to. >> carly fiorina, same question. was it right to invade iraq? yes or no. we know a lot. >> given what we thought we knew

at the time, yes. i supported that decision then, i support it now. however. >> it was a smart decision to go to iraq? >> yes, given what we thought we knew. now it turns out the information was wrong. there were no weapons of mass destruction although virtually every intelligence agency around the world stood together and say yes he had them. big important however, we mismanaged that war tremendously. we had unrealistic expectations. we didn't resource it appropriately. so there were many, many mistakes made. >> my opinion wmd, the claim had nothing to do with that war. the people that wanted that war from dick cheney to the neo-cons the whole batch decided on that war because they wanted to go to war with saddam hussein. number two. >> then you're casting. >> no, afterwards, they said even though there was no wmd, this he said they were still right to invade. how do you square that with your concern about the accuracy of the intel when in the fact the

people led us into there said it didn't matter there was no wmd. >> it's a very good question. >> it sure is. >> you'ring aspersions upon the cia and british intelligence. >> i'm casting aspersions. >> excuse me, chris. i let you finish. i know the directors of both the cia and british intelligence. i knew them at the time. they were both absolutely convinced, based on the information they had, that is wmd existed and they would say so to this day. having said all of that, it turned out to be wrong. and yes, i absolutely support ta we need more effective intelligence gathering tools and techniques, but we have to understand how to hold government agencies accountable with this kind of power. we have not had a national dialogue on that. that is why most people think edward snowden is a whistleblower, no the a traitor. this is a big issue. >> you know what? i'll repeat myself. we need somebody with intelligence sitting in the

white house, basic human intelligence. we didn't have one. that war had nothing to do with the quality of our intelligence. i would never blame the cia or the british intelligence. those 16 words were an embarrassment because cheney wanted them in there. thank you. we just disagree. i respect you. we disagree. you are a hawk and i'm a dove. that's how it works. thank you very much, david. i'm glad you two finally disagreed. up next, jane fonda. i like jane fonda. and nancy reagan and i like her even more. a lot of republicans are up in arms the famous lils liberal actress is playing the former first lady. what does nancy think? that's a query. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. back to "hardball." now to the sideshow. sexting and politics don't mix obviously. anthony weiner has proven that this week. what if there was a service that

helped politicians indulge their digital perversions, if you will, without the risk? take a look at this parody commercial from conan last night. >> oh, no, there's a picture of my penis on tmz again. that's the fourth time this week. >> oh, well, guess there's nothing i can do about it. >> wait. i can help. >> who are you? >> i'mith the junk squad. we teach congressmen who weren't born in the digital age how to send pictures safely and discreetly. >> wow. if you're old enough to find computers perplexing, one of our junk squad technicians will personally visit your home, office or governor's mansion and safely guide you through the process from start to finish. >> sounds great. >> first of all, as a high ranking public figure, are you sure you want to send someone you barely know a picture of your penis? >> absolutely, it has to be done. >> let's do it right. we provide expertise in every

area of secure me nis photograph transmission. i want to put this into this. >> uh, so. if you need to run for public office and send out blurry photos of your disembodied penis, call the junk squad. >> i don't think how that got through. next jane fonda is playing former first lady nancy reagan in an upcoming movie "the butler." while the casting choice drew sharp crist six on the right, she may have the approval of at least one influential republican. here she was discussing the role yesterday. >> i thought it would be fun to play her. i know people say, oh, my gosh, jane fonda is playing nancy reagan. i don't think whatever differences there might be in our politics really matters as an actor, an approach her as a human being and i happen to know she's not unhappy that i'm playing her. >> i hope she plays her well. she said she heard it from a friend that nancy was okay with

it, but about can't beat an endorsement like that. up next, a juror from the george zimmerman trial now says "he got away with murder." but the law and the evidence she says prevented her voting for conviction. that's ahead. this is going to be complicated. we'll follow the feelings and attitudes and the thinking that went into na juror's decision. we're coming up with the place for politics again. little things anyone can do. it steals your memories. your independence. ensures support, a breakthrough. and sooner than you'd like. sooner than you'd think. you die from alzheimer's disease. we cure alzheimer's disease. every little click, call or donation adds up to something big. does your mouth often feel dry? a dry mouth can be a side effect of many medications

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i'm bertha coombs with your cnbc mark wrap. the dow gained three points coming back from sue-point deficit. the s&p 500 added one and the nasdaq was up seven. a sign that americans are more confident about the economy, the consumer sentiment index hit a six-year high in july. samsung has replaced apple as the world's most profitable

mobile home vendor. profits hit $5.2 billion in the second quarter compared to apple's $4.6 billion. and starbucks shares are up 7% after beating earnings expectations. that's it from cnbc, we're first in business worldwide. now back to had. of george zimmerman got away with murder. but you can't get away from god. and at the end of the day, he's going to have a lot of questions and answers he has to deal with. >> welcome back to "hardball." that wasn't a pundit, that was an actual zimmerman juror, the last person you would expect to say zimmerman got away with murder. matt maddy is her first name. also known as juror b-29. she made that stunning admission on abc news earlier this week.

in an interview with robin roberts, maddy explained a bit more about those comments. >> my first thought was second degree murder. >> a lot of people wanted to know how did you come in nine hours from feeling he was guilty of second degree murder to not guilty? >> it was hard. a lot of us had wanted to find something bad, something that we could connect the laut because all six of us, let's not speak for all six of us, but for myself he's guilty because the evidence shows he's guilty. >> he's guilty of. >> killing trayvon martin. but we couldn't prove that intentionally he killed him. and that's the way that the law was read to me. >> trayvon martin's mother put out a statement reacting to maddy's remarks saying it's deb state aring for my it will family to hear the comments which we already knew in our hearts to be true that george zimmerman literally got away with murder. how can these two things be true

at the same time? how can a juror reach the unanimous verdict of not guilty and zimmerman be guilty of murder at the same time? to help us, we're joined by a formerly prosecutor. kiesha. i'm trying to put this juror's comments together. she's a civilian. she's a regular person. >> right. >> but if i were tougher, i would say wait a minute. what was lacking here? you said the evidence was there he's guilty of second degree murder then you say that the law and evidence didn't support it. therefore i had to go for acquittal. i don't get a clarity what she thought knew what happened. if you knew what happened, you would make a judgment whether there was evidence to support what you thought happened. then you'd offer a verdict. it would come first from what you thought happened, what you could support from the evidence happened. and then would go a verdict. with her it's a feeling. a feeling that she's had, and obviously has been bothering her to the point where she has to come out publicly with this. but it seems to me, you got a

question with this juror. the question is, how is he getting away with murder if he wasn't guilty of murder. >> jus listening to this juror's comments leads me to believe there was some confusion. i also think that with a lot of criminal trials, the jurors fill a certain emotional way about what the verdict should be, but because of the standards, the prosecutor has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that i an crime was committed and also the jurors are given jury instructions which force them to stay within the confines of what the law is. i think with her when she stated you know, i think he's guilty of killing trayvon but there was no proof that he intentionally did it, intent. >> she said he's guilt of murder, not guilty, that means intentional. >> what she's conveying is what a lot of people across our country feels. there's not enough proof by i blame the prosecutor for, but i also think that the emotional part of he did something wrong is what's going through her

head. it shows there's confusion on her part. >> i want you to do interpreting here. do you think she means she doesn't believe his account that he was on the bottom in fear of his life or grievous bodily injury? and if she did believe that, did she think he was guilty of murder two? it seems like she couldn't believe both. now, if she did believe his account, where does that take her? why didn't she just say that in her interview with robin roberts, i didn't believe a word he said. it isn't about feeling. it's about belief. >> she's misinterpreting -- she's stating more feeling than what was proven in that courtroom. and i also think which i see in a lot of my cases, oftentimes the jurors, there may be one juror who are feels a particular way but after cussing it with the jury during deliberations, in this juror may come back and say you're right. she may have felt wrong to be

the one person to say i don't feel it, but i think if she did not believe what she eventually did with acquitting him, she should have spoke up. we would have had a hung verdict. >> what do you recommend jurors do? i've heard from one of our experts on this trial what they tell jurors to do, especially if they're defense attorneys they want an acquittal or a hung jury, if they feel overwhelmed or simply a minority of opinion, they should hold to that opinion and hold to it in what may have happened here is she was asked to explain why she thought the guy was guilty of purposeful deliberate murder in this case or rather when he had a situation where he could have chosen not to kill the guy. and she couldn't do it or couldn't explain it well enough or gave up trying to explain it. what do you think happened? she's now feeling guilt what she did to the point where she's telling everybody about it. >> i think the fact she's feeling guilty to this extent she's expressed on national television shows that she will

made a decision that she didn't feel comfortable with, which in a court of law there's no room for that. i believe the judges make that clear to jurors you have to feel comfortable and you have to convict based or acquit based on the law. i'm not sure if she's confusing emotion with the facts and what the law says, but i think the fact that she believes that he was guilty she should have stuck with that and that would have changed the verdict in this case where it would have been a hung jury. >> i can't tell. thank you for coming on. kisha, thank you. up next, the latest on your on going series which we've brought to you the unkindest cut. this time how congress across the board spending cuts are costing the country jobs, 1.6 million because of the sequester. it's not just words. it's jobs. this is "hardball," the place for politics. la's known definitely for its traffic, congestion, for it's smog. but there are a lot of people that do ride the bus. and now that the busses are running on natural gas,

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on. and workers depend on like education and research and infrastructure and defense. it's unnecessary and at a time when too many americans are still looking for work, it's lo inexcusable. >> there it is this july, and it is still july. that is president obama calling the budget cuts known as sequestration dumb, arbitrary and inexcusable. and you know what? he is right. by the way, there is more coming. it looks like the nonpartisan congressional budget office agrees with the president. yesterday the cbo released a study that says ending the automatic cuts could create up to wonder.6 million jobs over the next year. joining me for the latest the unkindest cut, "the huffington post" and msnbc contributor sam stein, and msnbc political analyst and mother jones washington bureau chief david corn. said with great majesty and importance. let me ask you this. i think when people always like to say on the conservative side,

oh, government can't create jobs. well, world war ii developed jobs, and a every time a base closes somewhere, they say the jobs are going to be lost. so there is -- government jobs are jobs. they pay well. their families go to school, they go to the movies, they live and eat. all that creates employment for other people. every time we get to an issue of government spending, the republicans say that's waste. >> the republicans basically have been riding for the past two years a fundamental fallacy, which is when the economy goes south, and there is contraction, that is government too has to tighten the bet is the false cliche they use all the time. actually, the government is there to be a counterbalance to what is happening. so you got to keep demand up to keep people employed, to keep jobs going so you don't fall behind economically, domestically or internationally which is just as important. >> economists believe every time the government spends money, it creates jobs. nixon once said -- i'm a

keynesian too. they create jobs. if they go through sequester and continue thatted ed that will m the end to the recovery and then they can run against it. >> it certainly will hit a slowdown. the cbo estimates is 300,000 to 1.6 million in terms of jobs lost. we have done a bunch of reporting on this. we did a job with civilian employees at the pentagon who are furloughed because of the sequester. i talked to one of them. she said she hasn't gone out to a restaurant meal in six months. all this stuff has a ripple effect. the restauranteur won't get a customer. comcast is going to lose business. we're talking 600,000 pentagon employees who are suffering 11 furlough days. >> you work for comcast now, right? >> i guess, yes. fair enough. >> go ahead. >> time warner cable. >> okay, go ahead, go ahead. >> but the point is still valid. if you start take away little things here and there, and maybe

simply it doesn't seem like that's big a deal. it's going to be aggregated, over time. >> you're good at this, very good at this. if we have a battle royale between now and christmas, between the holidays and now, and there is a big fight over government shutdowns, potentially not paying the national debt off and having a default, the whole worst horror story, not only does that cause a lot of the headlines and a lot of noise, but it has a particular effect on the economy. a, in actual fact, it cuts spending. and b, it kills confidence that we're going anywhere. >> it's going to have a massive ripple effect in terms of confidence in economic standing. >> when? >> there are no winners. the economy losers. >> you don't think rand paul wins? you don't think ted cruz wins? why are they doing it then. >> can extract more promises from the president. >> we went through this in 2011. and if you look at the poll results afterwards, the republicans took a bigger hit than the president.

remember -- >> so they're stupid? so they're stupid? >> they have a theology. they are theological. so they really do believe, you know, these documents they put out yesterday from this group groundswell. again and again they say that the right republicans have to be more conservative and push back even more on spending than john boehner is willing to do. so they are theological to this point. and that's when you get into trowel. because if they're theological, they're not prone to compromise. >> what unemployment rate can president obama leave the presidency in and claim to be a success on the economy? what does it have to be? it's 7.6 now. how long does it have to go for him to say i'm a success? >> there is no way to know that. >> under 7 is good, but it's going to be hard. >> sequestration is a compounding effect. it will build over time. >> thanks, sam stein. thank you, david corn. happy weekend for all of you. all three of you. all two of you. when we return, let me finish with the republicans' civil war over war. boy, it's about time this baby

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let me finish tonight with this. there is a bar restaurant on capitol hill called the hawk and dove. it's a statement of the chief division of politics in this city going back to the 1960s. are you for the war or against it? in the 1960s, the war was vietnam. hawks like robert mcnamara defended the war until they couldn't anymore. lyndon johnson was planning to run for reelection in 1968 until

he couldn't. first gene mccarthy and then robert kennedy campaigned against the war until bobby was killed and gene just didn't have the fight in him anymore. in this century, the war was iraq. the hawks, w., cheney, and that's how do you pronounce it, and neo cons and other republican conservatives backed it to the hilt. then slowly the true conservatives like william f. buckley realized it was not a conflict they could support with full heart. others like rich lowry who also changed their minds. and then a lot of the hawks on the republican party simply began to melt away, stopped running their op-ed pieces, drifted off into wherever people go when anything they say will be used against them. now there is a war in the republican party between the hawks and the doves. the doves are folks like rand paul who think getting engaged in the middle east wars, any of them, is not in our national interest. not a bad thought there and those who are steady at the rampart, even today like krchri

christie of new jersey. they've got one now between each other. let's sit back and enjoy the show. as long as the rs, that's the republicans, are stage aguiar over whether to fight, we have a decent chance of averting another real one. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. thanks, chris, and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, devastating. that was the reaction from trayvon martin's mother when she heard the stunning admission from juror b29 who said, quote, george zimmerman got away with murder. and today, two weeks after the verdict, sybrina martin's pain is still right there. >> let me just say that i stand here before you today only through the grace of god, only because the spirit that