in can just seize the opportunity. it's looking good, herbie. he's seen it. it's all over. nothing but daylight. yes i'd love a cookie. [ male announcer ] make a powerful first impression. the all-new nissan sentra. ♪ this morning, my question. why won't anthony weiner just go away? plus, a pope of the people refocusing the vatican's agenda. and spiritual life coach, ill vanna yan zant joins us here in nerdland. but first, what the george zimmerman verdict can teach us about voting rights in texas. good morning. i'm melissa harris-perry. after weeks of speculation, we've finally got a chance to put a name and a face to the only person of color among the

six women who acquitted george zimmerman. yesterday, juror b-29 became the first of the six to show herself on camera when she sat down with abc's robin roberts in an interview for good morning america. the juror, who used only her first name, maddie, is puerto rican, married, 36-year-old, mother of eight who works as a nursing assistant. and she wasn't just the only person of color in the jury room. maddie says she was also the lone voice of dissent. >> i was the juror that was going to give them the hung juror. oh, i was. i fought to the end. >> maddie's fight during the deliberations wasn't just with the other five jurors, it was also with herself. between her feelings about george zimmerman's culpability and the facts presented about him in court. >> for myself, he's guilty. we couldn't prove that, intentionally, he killed him. and that's the way the law was

read to me. >> you see, the prosecution failed to convince maddie, and her fellow jurors, of george zimmerman's intent. okay, think about that for a second. the requirement to prove intent, to provide irrefutable evidence of an intangible thing, to convince a juror that they can know the unknowable, the private contents of a person's heart and mind. it's what friend of nerdland jay smooth calls the rhetorical bermuda triangle, in his video essay on how to talk about racism. >> because that conversation takes us away from the facts of what they did, and the speculation about their motives and intentions, and those are things you can only guess at, and you can't ever prove, and that makes it way too easy for them to derail your whole argument. >> but this, climbing the steep mountain to make the case for intent, is exactly what the state was tasked with doing in the zimmerman trial. in a criminal case, we burden the state with the need to prove intent for good reason.

after all, a guilty verdict gives the government permission to use its power to revoke an individual's liberty, as punishment. so that uphill climb to convince a juror of a person's intentions beyond a reasonable doubt is a justifiably steep standard. but, what about when the government is tasked not with taking away an individual's rights, but with protecting them? come with me now. it seems that we'd want to make it as easy as possible to defend something that is precious. and yet, left with what remains of the ability to protect the voting rights of americans, the government faces that same uphill battle. the need to prove intent. and it's the challenge ahead for the justice department and attorney general eric holder, following the announcement he made before the national urban league's annual conference this week. >> today, i am announcing that the justice department will ask a federal court in texas to subject the state of texas to a preclearance regime, similar to

the one required by section five of the voting rights act. this request to bail in the state of texas and to require it to obtain preapproval from either the department or a federal court before implementing future voting changes is available under the voting rights act, when intentional voting discrimination is found. >> okay, that provision that he's talking about, that will allow the state of texas to be bailed into the preclearance requirement is section three of the voting rights act. same great voter protection responsibility of section five, but much harder to enforce. remember, section five automatically requires states with a history of racial discrimination to get permission from the federal government before they can make any changes in their voting laws. but by striking down section four, which determined which states were subject to that requirement, the supreme court essentially banished section five to legal limbo for the time being. so the justice department is using the next best thing,

section three. section three also has a preclearance requirement. but instead of being applied to states already predetermined by a formula, section three allows states to be bailed in or brought in under the umbrella of the vre, the voting rights act, protection. here's the catch, section three requires the federal government to wade into that rhetorical bermuda triangle and prove discriminatory intent. that a jurisdiction passed a law with the explicit intention to discriminate based on race. telling a state a their voting laws are kind of racist is tricky, because, well, let me return to jay smooth one more time. >> it feels like the hardest way to hit them is just run up on them and say, i think your [ muted ] is racist. when you handle it that way, you're actually letting them off easy, because you're setting up a situation that's way too simple for him to derail and dug out of. >> here's what that sounds like in the fight over voting rights. voter advocate, hey, your voter i.d. law is going to

disenfranchise hundreds of thousands of people of color. that's racist. vote suppressors, that's not racist, that's a fight against voter fraud. so it is an imperfect solution. fortunately,s there also a potential easy fix. let's swap out intent for another six-letter "i" word. impact. making this small change to section three would make a big difference in the government's ability to enforce the vra. instead of the requirement to prove the unprovable, shifting the standard of proof to disparate impact would give the justice department something observable, measurable, and quantifiable on which to build the case. unfortunately, making that change also requires something almost as difficult these days as proving intent. getting the u.s. congress to act. joining me now is alton pollard, dean of howard university, school of divinity, and professor of religion and culture at howard university. richard kim, executive editor of thenation.com. rebecca cinderbrand, deputy

white house editor at politico, and dave ho, director of aclu's vote rights project. and joining us from texas, ari berman, author of "herding donkeys: the fight to rebuild the democratic party and reshape american politics." dale, i want to start with you. if the supreme court has told us under section four, history is no longer the basis. if it is awfully hard to prove intent, then can we imagine disparate impact as a way to get to voter protection? >> i think we absolutely can. because focusing on intent, as you pointed out, really focuses on the wrong question. if i'm the victim of discrimination, it doesn't really matter to me why i've been discriminated against, only that i've been discriminated against. so north carolina, their voter suppression law, it's going to disproportionately affect african-americans. if i'm one of those african-american voters, it doesn't matter to me if the legislature did that because they don't like black people or because they think that black people are going to vote for particular party. either way, i've lost the most

precious right that i have in our democracy. so focusing on intent, i think, focusing more on the culpability of the offend and evinces more of a concern for the offender's state of mind than what actually happened to the victim. >> and we have to turn all state legislatures into paula deen in order for us to be able to say, we need to protect voting rights. talk to me about what you think is the possibility of either getting congress to move towards impact or else being able to convince the supreme court that a disparate impact standard is a new way to rewrite that section four. >> well, hi, melissa, good morning. so most lawmakers are smart enough to say, we're not going to discriminate against someone before they do so. texas lawmakers weren't one of them. because there is a long series of e-mails in this redistricting case, basically showing how texas lawmakers would carve up specific districts to subvert

the growing hispanic minority voting power in that state. so the federal courts were able to show, in this case, that the texas redistricting plans were enacted with discriminatory purpose. but, remember, they also block texas's voter i.d. law, without having to show that. if they had to show, for example, that texas' voter i.d. law was enacted with discriminatory purpose, they might not have been able to block it. that was the genius of section five. but i want to go back quickly. there was an important historical example, which is in 1980, there was a very important case called mobile versus bolden in 1980. where the supreme court said that youed that to show discriminatory intent to prove a violation of section two of the voting rights, another very important provision, that applies nationwide. john roberts, when he was a young lawyer in the reagan justice department, fought very hard to preserve the fact that section two had to be intent-based. congress in 1982 overruled the supreme court, overruled roberts and said, section two just needs

to be impact-based. you only have to prove discriminatory impact, not intent. that preserved section two as one of the pillars of the voting rights act, which survives today. congress can do the same thing right now with section three. it's not a very difficult change. they could do it tomorrow, if they wanted, and there's an historical precedent for them to do so. >> ari, i'm so glad you brought that up. and dale, i want to come back to this. because right now, in front of the supreme court, what's potentially being heard is the mt. holly case. and that's a fair housing case, it's not a voting case, but it does hinge on this question of disparate impact and whether or not disparate racial impact is a fair basis. and if this makes it to the court of john roberts, who in the 1980s, as a young justice department attorney, was vigorously against an impact standard and wanted, instead, an intent standard, are we looking at the possibility of even -- that mt. holly could take down the voting rights possibility of disparate impact as a formula?

>> i certainly hope that isn't what happens. if we had a court that was respectful of our civil rights precedents, i wouldn't be concerned about this at all. if the mt. holly case goes up, wshd be optimistic about its results, because the fair housing act has been interpreted to have that for decades. it would be a really radical change. >> i laugh because i think, yeah, but radical change in the protection of civil rights is sort of what they're up to here. >> that's unfortunately, i think, our worst fears, as civil rights advocates, right? you know, there's a possibility that case might settle. you know, the parties requested additional time for briefing this summer, to pursue those sort of settlement conversations. but i think the mt. holly case really underscores why disparate impact is so important. in this case, you had an african-american community. their neighborhood was demolished. the new development, most of the members of that community can't afford to move into. and it doesn't really matter to them why you did it. they don't have homes the anymore. >> right, right.

it doesn't matter if you were holding in your heart this negative feeling, and again, as we said in the case of juror b-29, that can be really tough. even in what feels to so many people like a clear-cut instance, unless you can prove that this is what is in the mind of the shooter, right, then, in fact, you may have votes walking free. so you may be at this point, shooting down our voting rights. stick with us. we are staying on exactly this topic and bringing everyone else back in as soon as we're back. [ mom ] with my little girl, every food is finger food.

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this is the department's first action to protect voting rights following the shelby county decision. but it will not be our last. even as congress considers updates to the voting rights act in light of the court's ruling,

we plan, in the meantime, to fully utilize the law's remaining sections to ensure that the voting rights of all american citizens are protected. >> that was attorney general eric holder, addressing the national urban league's annual conference on thursday. richard? >> my understanding about that intent bar, right, is that it's easier to prove that in the redistricting cases. right? and correct me if i'm wrong, dea and ari, it's because on that level, the sort of quantum level of, you know, decision making there is race. they're using it as a proxy for partisansh partisanship, right? when you get to the ballot box issues, right, which have completely disproportionate racial impact, the intent there is not really race, per se, it's just partisanship. and it actually affects young people, new voters, as well as african-americans and latinos, right? so the question, you know, there is the racial impact that we should consider, but i also think there's just a democracy

issue with the ballot box issue, right? and that should concern all americans. >> so i guess, there's two pieces on that. one, also, the other thing that happens in the redistricting, right? we know the sort of trail of e-mails that ari was just talking about, there's going to be an e-mail trail. i was thinking, maybe this is the first time progressives will be down with the nsa, like, reading your e-mails, if we have to be able to prove intent in order to get these voting rights cases. but let me ask you about this, ari. it does seem to be part of what happens is, you have to have these conversations across parties when you're doing the redistricting. it is a lot of back and forth and balancing. but, you know, for example, seeing what we've seen in north carolina, recently, when there's a party in charge, it doesn't feel like you get that same trail of conversation when you're talking about these kind of voter i.d. questions. >> no. and that's the thing, that's what makes it so important to have to be able to show impact, not just intent. because, otherwise, it's going to be very hard to improve these intent things. and i want to talk about texas,

where i am right now. some people were saying, why is holder suing texas. like this was some theoretical exercise. we had federal courts finding that two huge laws in texas, to redistricting changes and the voter i.d. laws were discriminatory last year. so there's already a record of discrimination shown. and look at the voter i.d. case. i think people forget here. you have 600 to 800,000 registered voters according to the state of texas, who don't have that i.d. you have a handgun permit being able to use to vote, but not a student i.d. you have hispanic voters, 46 to 100% more likely to not have that i.d. you have a free i.d., which you need an underlying document to get, which costs $22, as the cheapest option -- >> which is a poll tax. >> which is why eric holder called it a poll tax and why the federal courts that said, any law that makes you choose between your paycheck and your franchise, disenfranchises you. and the last thing i'll say,

texas only has dmv offices in 81 of 254 counties in the state. so if you don't have that i.d., which 600,000 to 800,000 registered voters don't have, and if you don't have a car, and hispanics are more likely to not have a car and live in counties without dmv offices, how are you supposed to get that i.d.? you're supposed to drive 250 miles the to get it? so for all those reasons, it was blocked under section five, and that's why the justice department and group s going forward are going to try to challenge this law under other provisions of the vote rights act. >> i want to ask you about the politics of what happens and what ari's saying there. he laid out for us very clearly how these policies have disparate impact. but in order for this attorney general, under this president to sort of move forward with this, they are going to have to talk about intent. and that leaves an african-american president and an african-american attorney general having to say, the state lawmakers in texas are basically racist in their policy making.

how bad is that, politically, or how difficult is that for them politically? >> like, speaking about texas, very specifically, obviously for politicians in texas, it's a great dynamic. there is no downside to them, to seem to be standing up to president obama and eric holder's justice department. i want to circle back quickly to what you were talking about, with the changes in congress. the fact is, we have two competing impulses here. we had somewhat the same dynamic we have on immigration, where congress wants to be seen as moving forward on voting rights legislation, the same way they want to be seen as moving forward on immigration, but they don't actually want to move forward on it. they just want to be seen as moving forward on it. and so you have, from the very beginning of this, the president's second term, you've had the process set up where they say, look, we know congress isn't going to act. we have to figure out workarounds. and what you're seeing here is the ultimate workaround. the same you saw on climate change, you're seeing the workaround begin. >> and like when they did doca, because they couldn't get dream

through. it seems to me part of what we're seeing, what we're going to see with civil rights groups and others, there's going to have to be a level of activism now around this, that wasn't necessary when you had the section five preclearance. that sort of opted people in. now you're going to have to have folks on the ground. part of what you do is train largely african-american clergy, and that has been a group key to turning out minority voters. do they see the political work as part of their spiritual -- do you hear them talking about this as part of what they will be doing? >> i think it's safe to say that they're indistinguishable for our students. we recognize public policy, political action, social justice, the life of faith all go hand in hand. there is no school of ministry preparation for us without that understanding. our students are taking courses, they're doing public policy. they're doing prophetic ministry. we are engaged in research around issues of health care,

education, economic development, a whole host of issues, so that they understand that it is not enough to simply be in a church, it is not enough to be with four walls is and a steeple. that, in fact, the ministry of the 21st century is about what it has always been, being with and for and by the people. >> you know, i so appreciate that. as soon as we come back, we're going to talk about the person who i think is just absolutely the embodiment of exactly that. and that's reverend barbara down in north carolina, who is a man of the cloth, but is clearly a man of the people on this question of pushing back against the absolute madness in north carolina.

over the last year that we've been bringing you this week in voter suppression, we've covered some pretty egregious attempts to deny americans the right to vote. but this week, we are witnessing the passage of a bill that by

far eclipses all of the restrictive voting laws that have come before it. the bill passed in north carolina on thursday night and is what my guest, ari berman, calls the country's worst voter suppression law. the bill started off badly enough, a strict voter i.d. measure that could leave 318,000 north carolinians without the right to -- or without the capacity to vote. but then, it ballooned into a, yes, my friends, 57-page voter suppression super bill. as republicans tacked on dozens of amendments to gut voting rights in the state, including the end of same-day voter registration, cutting back early voting, banning paid voter registration drives, repealing a mandate for high school registration drives, eliminating straight party ticket voting, a repeal of out of precinct voting, and those are just a few. ari, i want to go to you on this. because the most horrifying ones to me are the ones that actually give the ability of folks -- of

ordinary citizens to challenge other citizens' right to vote. it's very sort of 1932. can you talk to me about that one version? >> sure. so remember that vigilante poll watcher group, true the vote, the last election cycle? it's basically like they wrote this entire bill. there were so many bad elements that were tacked on to the headline elements. the thing we know about the bill, voter i.d., cutbacks of early voting, elimination of same-day registration, those were kind of the head lalines, there are all these other provisions, like the fact that you can challenge an eligible voter anywhere, just because of soft suspicion. which is really going to lead, i think, to racial profiling at the polls, on top of everything else. then there's all these other provisions, like getting rid of public financing of judicial elections, getting rid of pre-registration of 16 and 17-year-olds, flooding the system with more un-regulated money. candidates don't have to say who pays for their ads anymore.

there's more outside money. so this is really the more money, less voting bill, which is the exact opposite of what our democracy needs right now. is north carolina next? we saw the attorney general say, we're going to texas. is he heading to the tar heel state next? >> i'm not sure where the department of justice and going next, but someone's going to the tarheel state next. but what has me concerned, it's a horrible bill all the way around. 220 million voters used the early voting, period, more than half the voters. and now they want too what florida did before the 2012 election, lop off one week of early voting. you had people casting their ballots after the president had already given his acceptance speech. 800,000 of those voters were african-american, by the way. huge, huge disproportionate impact on african-american voters. >> and in north carolina, that could be the difference in the next election. >> absolutely. you know what irks me so much about all of this, though, is that the kernel, the rationale

behind this is such a bad faith argument. the idea that there is an epidemic of voter impersonation. in north carolina in the last ten year, there were zero cases of voter impersonation. in texas, where the attorney general went on a fishing expedition to find voter impersonation, amongst the hundreds of millions of votes cast in the past decade, there were two convictions on actual voter impersonation. so there is no way you look at the record and say that this lgs is what should come out of these incredibly rare instances. >> and richard, if there was a rash of voter impersonation, so let's say there is, why would ending early voting fix that? in fact, if anything, i would expect that ending early voting would cause more of it, because people are just showing up on that day. >> exactly. >> like, even the things that they proposed to so-call fix this nonexistent problem wouldn't be fixes. >> exactly. and on the wad faibad faith levs not like there are these other

bills going forward, it is just such a bad faith argument. and that's just really upsetting to see on just an integrity level. >> so as bad as the bad faith and sort of as distressing as the super bill is, the one great thing is that moral mondays led by reverend barber, the naacp, a coalition of groups around women's rights, all of that, i think that this moral monday movement is the most exciting thing happening in the country in terms of people pushing back. is there something we can learn from that? because undoubtedly, this stuff is going to spread. this doesn't happen in one state. this is going to be in 30 states. how do we make sure there's a moral monday in 30 states as well? >> we see dream defenders movement taking place in florida. we see that clergy and churches are beginning to join forces with those college students there. we're beginning to recognize that the marriage equality act and movement that is taking place around the country that has more and more churches and clergy, african-american, people of color who understand that how

one group is affected, disproportionately and negatively impacts us all in a bad way. >> and on the politics of it, in this purple, purple state, where you have on the one hand, people pushing back, you clearly have a movement, and yet, my anxiety is, is there a democratic party in operation in the state of north carolina that could take advantage? right, so you have this grassroots movement, but if the parties themselves so d dysfunctional at the state level, how do we do the basic party building? >> this is a bit of a gamble by the supporters of these new restrictions. so we saw what happened last time, when these sorts of rule changes were pushed and these sorts of -- it was a big source of motivation to democratic voters. so it ended up having unintentional consequences. you actually saw the african-american turnout rise, which it had a bit of a boomerang effect. this time around, it's a little different. we're looking ahead to the midterms elections. everyone knows the midterm electorate is generally older,

whiter, more conservative. so the gamble is that sort of motivating factor, it will be a bit muted at the polls the next time around. and of course, if those laws are in place and left in place, they're there for the 2016 cycle, and that's what the real goal is. >> and we know that there's no president obama on that -- so we know we'll get a decline in the midterms, no president obama running for re-election at the top. we've got to find where that motivational source is. and that's part of what's interesting about reverend barber's movement, is this idea that it's about our democracy. ari berman, as always, thank you so much for all of your reporting. you know we're going to keep your eyes on you and what you're up to and the work that you are doing down there in texas and in north carolina. dale ho, thank you so much for joining us and for the work that aclu and others will have to do now that there's no section four. coming up a little bit later, illeana van zandt comes to nerdland. but up next, my letter of the week. [ brent ] now steve's looking pretty good so far. [ herbie ] eh, hold on brent, what's this? oh, that's the new nissan. there's no doubt, that's definitely gonna throw him off.

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so, nerdland, there were a whole bunch of folks who deserved a letter this weak. one of the top contenders was republican congressman steve king of iowa, who claimed that many undocumented youth are drug users. but king got a verbal smackdown from speaker of the house, john boehner. >> i want to be clear. there's no place in this debate for hateful or ignorant comments from elected officials. earlier this week, representative steve king made comments that were, i think, deeply offensive and wrong. what he said does not reflect the values of the american people or the republican party. >> go, boehner! but don't worry, steve. i'm going to keep an eye on you, because i have a feeling you're bound to stick your foot in your mouth again. this week's letter goes to another politician who seems to be equally tone deaf on an

important issue. dear florida governor rick scott. it's me, melissa! maybe you thought the whole brouhaha over the stand your ground laws would go away now that george zimmerman was acquitted. not even close. how's the noise outside your office, governor? are you not hearing the growing presence of people who have been protesting for more than a week, imploring you to address the stand your ground laws by reconvening state lawmakers. did you not hear trayvon martin's mother, sybrina fulton yesterday, tell a crowd at the national urban conference tell a crowd that this very law was the very reason why her son's killer was not held accountable for his death. >> a law that has prevented the person who shot and killed my son to be held accountable and to pay for this awful crime. >> if you didn't hear that, surely, governor, you must have

heard the words of maddie, also known as juror b-29, this week, during her interview with robin roberts on "good morning america." you know her, she's one of the six citizens, one of your constituents who was tasked to determine the guilt or innocence of george zimmerman. >> for myself, he's guilty. because the evidence shows he's guilty. >> he's guilty of -- >> killing trayvon martin. but, we couldn't prove that intentionally he killed him. and that's the way that the law was read to me. i know i went the right way, because by the law and the way it was followed is the way i went. but if i would have used my heart, i probably would have went a hung jury. >> i want to make sure you heard that, governor. that was your heartbroken citizen, telling you that, yes, she performed her civic duty and followed the law, but that in her heart, the evidence showed that george zimmerman was guilty of killing trayvon martin. but that is what happens when

you have a law on the books that sets up a climate where gun-toting citizen can justify shooting an unarmed person as self-defense. since your state became the first to adopt stand your ground in 2005, the number of what's termed as justifiable homicides tripled from 12 to 35 per year, between 2005 and 2010. that's an increase of 283%. are you hearing us yet, governor?! what are those people outside your office, what they're trying to get you to hear is that it's going to take a lot more than last year's quickly assembled task force to show them that you take their concerns around this law seriously. they want real action, that shows you understand this law is unacceptable and should not be used to justify the death of an unarmed teenager. the problem does not begin with the tragedy that happened to trayvon martin. the problem does not even begin with the actions of george zimmerman.

governor, the problem begins and remains with the stand your ground law. sincerely, melissa. [ dad ] so i walked into that dealer's office and you know what i walked out with? [ slurps ] [ dad ] a new passat. [ dad ] 0% apr. 60 months. done and done. [ dad ] in that driveway is a german-engineered piece of awesome. that i got for 0% apr. good one, dad. thank you, dalton. [ male announcer ] it's the car you won't stop talking about. ever. hurry in to the volkswagen best. thing. ever. event. and get 0% apr for 60 months, now until july 31st. that's the power of german engineering.

welcome back. today marks 60 years since the 1953 armistice ended hostilities in the korean war. and while north korea held a massive military parade last night to celebrate what that state calls their victory, here in washington, d.c., president obama and secretary of defense chuck hagel laid a wreath at the korean war veterans memorial. let's listen into president obama's remarks live now. >> let me just say, you look outstanding and i would ask that all united states, republican of korea, and other veterans who fought, i would ask those who can stand, to please stand that we can properly honor you here

today. [ applause ] [ applause ] july 27th, 1953, 60 years ago today, in the village of

ponmujon, in a barren room, the generals picked up their pens and signed their names to the agreement spread before them. that night, as the armistice took hold, the guns of war thundered no more. along the jagged front, men emerged from their muddy trenches, a marine raised his bugle and played taps, and a soldier spoke for millions when he said, thank god it is over. in the days that followed, both sides pulled back, leaving a demilitaryized zone between them. soldiers emptied their sandbags and tore down their bunkers. our p.o.w.s emerged from the camps. our ships steamed back across the ocean. in describing the moment he passed under the golden gate bridge, one of those soldiers

wrote, we suddenly knew we had survived the war and we were home. yes ask these veterans here today, and many will tell you, compared to other wars, theirs was a different kind of home coming. unlike the second world war, korea did not galvanize our country. these veterans did not return to parades. unlike vietnam, korea did not tear of our country. these veterans did not return to protests. among many americans, tired of war, there was, it seemed, a desire to forget, to move on. as one of these veterans recalls, we just came home and took off our uniforms and went

to work. that was about it. you, our veterans of korea, deserve better. and down the decades, our nation has worked to right that wrong, including here, this eternal memorial, where the measure of your sacrifice is enshrined for all time. because here in america, no war should ever be forgotten and no veteran should ever be overlooked. and after the armistice, a reporter wrote, when men talk in some distant time, with faint remembrance of the korean war, the shining deeds will live. the shining deeds will live. on this 60th anniversary, perhaps the highest tribute we can offer our veterans of korea

is to do what should have been done the day you come home. in our hurried lives, let us pause. let us listen. let these veterans carry us back to the days of their youth and let us be awed by their shining deeds. >> let me bring back rebecca cinderbrand, deputy white house editor at politico. rebecca, here's the president standing here in this moment, remembering the hostilities in korea, right at a time when the question of hostilities around korea and north korea in particular, remain an agenda item. anything that we should be thinking about in terms of the relationship between our nations now? >> well, it's interesting, of course, to mark the contrast between the situation we saw just a couple of months ago and what we're seeing now. you know, earlier this year, we saw a very aggressive push, a very kind of interesting tone from north korea. it was really unsettling to a lot of observers outside, even the chinese were a little taken

aback, and it seemed as though the situation might be spiraling out of control. now, even with north korea's kind of big display yesterday, we are hearing signals coming out of the talks with the chinese about the possibility that they're interested in returning to six-party talks. so, you know, there are signs of hope. it's still a very delicate situation, but definitely a much different place than it was just a few short months ago. >> listening to this president talk about the way that we think about our veterans and the kind of forgotten war, but this is also a president who has taken a lot of critique from his left flank about his relationship with the issue of war. is it, um, how are we to think about the new world of war in which we find ourselves, the way in which we conduct war now, versus this sort of heroic narrative of our soldiers coming home? >> it's just amazing that 36,000 americans died -- there's no way that we would tolerate that level of casualties, at least amongst our troops.

you know, as a korean-american, i just have to say also that, you know, the war was devastating for korea and millions of koreans died. my extended family ended up on opposite sides of the partition. and all the sort of geopolitics around the korea question, from china, from russia, first in the cold war now, it's never been clear to me that any of the major players are actually sincere about the interest of koreans on both sides of the divide. so i hope we're entering a new era, but we'll see. >> yeah. thanks so much. we are going to take a break, and when we come back, we're going to go from the sublime, the question of our great issues and how we sacrifice for our country to the ridiculous, yes, the new york city mayor's race and that guy who's running. when we come back. [ brent ] now steve's looking pretty good so far.

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cable news. it has been not shark week, but weiner week. i mean, anthony weiner and the

anxiety about him has been everywhere. let me read you this really smart piece, though, by one of my guests. in it, richard kim writes, "as a congressman, anthony weiner was a spectacularly ineffective buffoon. a recent "new york times" review of his tenure in the house paints a devastating portrait. weiner was megano maniacal, narcissistic, bad at navigating the political ropes, alienating to potential allies, alarmingly disinterested in making actual change, and really, really mean to his staff. one former aide likened him to miranda priestly in "in the devil wears prada." i'm back with my panel, and joining us, robert george and reverent paul raushenbush, senior religion editor at "huffington post." so robert, are we talking about all the wrong reasons why weiner should not be mayor of new york? >> just on a totally

nonideological level, not partisan level, weiner really sucked as a congressman. >> did you just say, "weiner really sucked"? >> yes. he was there for 9 1/2 years and in that entire time, he wrote and passed one bill. so whether you're a republican or a democrat, you want a dude in there that's going to be a little more effective than that. he was only interested the whole time in sort of grandstanding in front of the public. now he can sort of do that as a laughingstock and maybe we can just get rid of him as someone who intends to hold public office. >> is anyone even slightly surprised that someone running for the mayor of new york is narcissistic and meglomaniacal? it's like, those are the only people that could even run for office. >> the you think about who have been the great mayors of new york, ed koch, rudy giuliani,

they have all been huge, larger than life characters. so in that sense, anthony weiner would kind of fit in. but for goodness sake, none of those folks have quite -- would have come into the office with quite -- >> okay, so you have to keep backpedaling. but then rudy giuliani sort of, not exactly. but he didn't come in with it. >> well, look, i think there is a little bit of a difference between having an affair, having a mistress. there's a long history of that. the real concern, i think, with anthony weiner is, this looks like serious, you know, addictive behavior, a sight we haven't really seen in politics before. >> there's that other city just down the amtrak, you know, d.c., they've maybe seen it before. okay, coming up in the next hour, we're going to stay on this topic for just a moment. we've got a little bit more weiner left in us. we're also going to make a

pretty hard turn to the people's pope and the rise of the religious left. also, the one and only iyanla vanzant is going to join us live in the studio. there's more nerdland at the top of the hour. and i have diabetic nerve pain. when i first felt the diabetic nerve pain, of course i had no idea what it was. i felt like my feet were going to sleep. it progressed from there to burning like i was walking on hot coals... to like 1,000 bees that were just stinging my feet. i have a great relationship with my doctor... he found lyrica for me. [ female announcer ] it's known that diabetes damages nerves. lyrica is fda approved to treat diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is not for everyone. it may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, changes in eyesight including blurry vision, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling, or skin sores from diabetes.

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it's the so-called political sex scandal that keeps on going. on tuesday, anthony weiner admitted to sending illicit texts and pictures of himself after leaving congress and under the alias, carlos danger. and then on thursday, carlos -- i'm sorry, anthony, admitted to between six and ten illicit online relationships with women while he was in congress and three after resigning. and as so often is the case in politics, it is the wife who we see as tarnished as the candidate, even as she stands there as his most staunch

supporter. >> anthony's made some horrible mistakes, both before he resigned from congress and after. but i do very strongly believe that that is between us and our marriage. >> so the only person catches more grief than anthony weiner is his wife. why is she so scrutinized in this moment? i'm back with rebecca cinderbrant from politico, richard kip of "the nation," and joining us again, robert george with the "new york post," and reverend paul raushenbush with the "huffington post." you made this point about kind of addictive behavior. but, honestly, i'm not sure that i like -- like sort of pearl-clutching sex scandals. oh, i can't believe he did this sort of thing. you know, illegal behavior, behavior that is harmful, nonconsensual, yes. but is this just salacious? like, are we just having fun with the fact that this guy's name is weiner and he seems to be convulsively sending sel ini

of himself? >> honestly, some of these headline writers feel like it's christmas in july all over again. but for most voters, it's not even necessarily the stories themselves, but what it says about his judgment. this is a guy who, after all, was on a comeback tour, essentially daring magazines, newspapers, take a look at his private life, telling them that all this behavior was behind him and he was moving forward. at the same time, he was not only resuming, but increasing it in some sense. and so the question becomes, what kind of judgment does that display? he's his top political adviser. >> but that's a script, right, that was written for him. like, he had to do the like lying about it, the denial, and then the teary apology. then the, you know, re-have redemption thing. >> that's what you do. >> now, just to run the counterfactual, what he had just been like, this is between me and my wife. this might be something i do. i might do it again, and it's really none of your business. and it doesn't actually impact how i govern. you know, i just think that that

sort of sexual candor has never been tried by an american politician, really, in public life. >> i think there's a reason for that. i just don't think it flies. i mean, you're absolutely right. one of the little bits that came out in the stories this week, he contacted the woman -- one of the women he was texting, basically, two or three weeks before he announced that -- he basically, he reactivated his facebook account and he contacted her saying, oh, i'm coming out. did you see the profile of me in "the new york times"? that suggests a sort of level of recklessness and poor judgment, that i don't think you want running a city of 8 million people. >> when you talk about recklessness and poor judgment, it does feel to me like the other person who is catching the sort of side wind here is, in fact, his wife, who the discourse also now becomes, what about her?

what is her judgment? why is huma staying. and that seems a little bit off, outside of what we should be allowed to do. >> did you see what rush limbaugh said yesterday? he said, the reason she does it is because she's a muslim and muslim women are doormats. and this goes back to a year ago, also, they said that the muslim brotherhood, she's also connected with the muslim brotherhood, that's the reason the obama campaign is connected with the muslim brotherhood. so she has become a target because she's muslim. and for me, them standing up there, a jew and a muslim, what they don't have that mark sanford has is this, i'm a fallible person, i'm imperfect, but god has saved me by grace, i have a redemptive narrative. that is in the general public of this christian sort of, i'm okay, you're okay, we all sin. even eliot spitzer said, i have sinned. he used religious language. that is not available to this couple. >> that is really interesting. the idea that the redemptive

narrative is essentially sort of associated with the jud judeo-christian way of imagining what the redemptive narrative is. if he were a really competent lawmaker, you know, we might find them -- we might find it awesome instead of sort of icky and awful. >> if he was as competent as she clearly was running hillary clinton's staff. there's a lot of projection going on to huma abedin. we all want to imagine that we would never do that, he would never be hoodwinked that way, we would never tolerate this. but in the reality, you in your personal life love someone, you know, and it's complicated, we make different decisions. so there's a lot of fantasizing going on in this scenario. >> i think it's true, but you can't divorce these things from the political element in here. when he -- when he resigned two years ago, the sole saving grace that some people gave, and we

mention it in our editorial when he left, he, unlike spitzer, he didn't bring huma out he was resigning. >> a pregnant huma. >> he stood there and said these things and said, i'm going away. that gave him a little bit of a saving grace. this makes it completely even worse, because when he reenters the race, when he decides he's running for mayor, he has this rollout, he's got his wife with him. she's out there, she's campaigning for him, she's raising money for him. so they have become kind of a political couple. and while it's fine for her, as his wife, to stick with him in a tough time, people now see her as his political aide. and that's fair criticism. >> let me ask -- i've got one last political question for you. is it possible that bill thompson ends up winning the new york mayor's race because of this? this is just my thought. i was in chicago when president obama, then state senator obama, was facing jack ryan, and a sort of bizarre-o sex scandal shows

up, because jack ryan took his wife gerry ryan to a sex club, she didn't lake it, divorced him, he had to drop out, next up, state senator obama is facing alan keys, who i would give myself a good shot against, so then he's running unopposed, becomes the golden senator and ultimately becomes president. in this case, could you see weiner kind of falling to the wayside, thompson and quinn, and then you end up with bill thompson. weird things have happened. >> this is the irony of, you brush aside all this noise, the reality is that anthony weiner, in many ways, despite the polls, kind of an underdog candidate, even before this latest round of stories. the polls had him losing in a runoff to someone like bill thompson. but beyond that, he lacked the constitutional support, he lacked the turnout operation. all the nuts and bolts things that someone needs to win the mayor's race if new york city, he didn't have. he had the sugar high that comes with name recognition, which clearly, he's got name recognition. he's earned that the hard way.

but beyond that, what it takes to win the mayor's office -- >> and he does have a totally awesome new yorker cover. and so at least he can take that with him wherever he goes. my thanks to rebecca, richard, and robert paul. you're going to stick around. a little bit later, spiritual life coach, iyanla vanzant will be here later in the hour. but when we come back, we're going to look at the man becoming known as the people's pope. [ phil ] when you have joint pain and stiffness... accomplishing even little things can become major victories. i'm phil mickelson, pro golfer. when i was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis, my rheumatologist prescribed enbrel for my pain and stiffness, and to help stop joint damage. [ male announcer ] enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders, and allergic reactions have occurred.

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one day after authorities ordered the detention of recently ousted mohamed morsi,

violence erupted across egypt. clashes between pro-morsi protesters and the country's security forces ended in deaths is and injuries. nbc correspondent ayman mohyeldin joins us with the latest from cairo. ayman? >> reporter: melissa, right now police investigators are going through the scene and trying to determine exactly what happened. as we understand it, the general prosecutor here is going to be launching an investigation, but over the course of the last several hours, two very different accounts have emerged, and two very different death tolls. according to the supporters of the ousted president and the muslim brotherhood, close to 120 people were killed, as a peaceful protest was marchingsi another part of cairo. they were met by police who were using live ammunition as well as plains clothed supporters of the police who opened fire on them, leading to those casualties. but the police a short while ago held a preferenss conference ane a very different narrative.

they said when they tried to prevent this march, they came into contact of armed guns by the muslim brotherhood. they released footage to try to substantiate their narrative of what happened. but it was a very bloody scene and a very gruesome scene. and it was only in cairo. it also happened similarly in other parts of the country, including alexandra. it is an intense day, officials are still trying to reel their head around it and get a sense of what exactly happened over the course of the last several nights. and more importantly, how to try to de-escalate the situation. melissa? >> both tense and tragic. we will certainly keep our eyes on what is happening there in cairo. >> ayman mohyeldin live from cairo, thanks so much. we are going to turn now from egypt to brazil, where we simply have to start with this question. does the pope wear a funny hat? not this one! right now, pope frances, four months into the job, is in

brazil's rio day de janeiro whe he'll hold a meeting on copa cabana beach. since he was named leader of the catholic church in march, pope frances has shrugged off the normal trappings of office. instead off capes and red shoes he wears white vestments and black shoes. instead of the elaborate hats of his predecessor, he wears an undonored skull cap. he is the first pope to simply call himself frances. the new pope has so far kept that mission as his central focus. he has scolded western culture for its devotion to material wealth, and in off the cuff comments on thursday, he said, "i want the church to go out into the streets. i want us to defend ourselves against all worldliness.

i think at this time the global civilization has gone beyond its limits. it has gone beyond its limits because it has created such a cult of money." he has washed the feet of children in prison, including the feet of girls and muslims. and on his ongoing trip to brazil, he made a point to visit one of rio's slum neighborhoods and has refused to protect himself, going without bulletproof glass between himself and catholic believers. frances clearly wants to be, as "time" international edition called him this week, the people's pope. joining me now, father james martin, as jesuit priest, and author of the jesuit guide to almost everything. dr. alton pollard, dean of howard university school of divinity, and reverend paul raushenbush is the senior religion editor for the "huffington post." father jim, how much do i love this pope? >> how much do i love this pope? >> is this, in fact, something different.

are we seeing this pope turning the great ship that is the catholic church toward a new focus? >> well, yes and no. i mean, he's focused on the same things, but he's doing it in very different ways. as you pointed out, this emphasis on sort of austerity and humility and this radical focus on the poor and being very blunt about his message is a different style. and i think people are really responding to it. >> now, gavin, i have to say, on the one hand, how much do i love this pope, right? and particularly the foot washing was one of my favorite moments. on the other hand, this is a pope that has, nonetheless, called the conference in which most american nuns are apart of, have used the language of radical feminism to describe them. we certainly do not agree on issues of birth control and reproduct i haive rights. but is it possible to start building multi-faith movements where we don't have to agree on everything, but have enthusiasm about the spaces where we do agree. >> let me just add my enthusiasm to yours, because i think this pope is actually setting the tone for many of the things that

people across religious lines, christians, jews, muslims and others really believe. and that is to take care of the most vulnerable among us. and he is using his power for good. and i think showing in the public square that religion can be a force for good, when we see the office that's happening so often as well. so i think that, yes, movements are possible and he's a part of that. i also think that if he is true to his style of what he's shown in terms of crossing boundaries, he may just find himself in close proximity to some of these catholic nuns in the u.s., like sister simone campbell. and my fantasy is he's going to be on the bus with sister simone. >> that would be something. now, paul, i want to ask you in part about this. because i was, you know, it's been kind of a crazy week, and i would occasionally sort of look up at the television and i would see big crowds. and i would have to kind of peer

and say, is that the royal baby, is that the pope, or is that egypt? you know, there were just sort of things happening. and he was clearly, always the biggest crowd. bigger of what's going on in egypt, in just terms the number of people. bigger than the royal baby, which is pretty dang big to beat. and there's got to be something about catholicism that remains critically personal, even to those of us who are not catholic, right? that the world nature of it means. what this pope says matters to us. >> well, first of all, there were 1.5 million people on copa cabana beach last night, which is amazing. also yesterday it came out that he has knocked obama off as the most influential world leader on twitter. he dwarfs obama on retweets. so in the last, whatever, five months, he has raised his profile so much on every social media platform. and i want to remember something. before the conclave, the whole narrative was, catholic church

in crisis, catholic church imploding. there was no good news. and then, it's been like a miracle. i have to say. i mean, a wrote a piece afterwards, the holy spirit and pope frances. and i really feel like this was an amazing thing happening. look what's going on. they feel like someone is speaking for them. >> and yet, let me -- so let's go to exactly that. the notion that there was a crisis in the church wasn't just sort of this sense that it was. it was deeply tied to a grave injustice occurring in the catholic church around the sexual assault questions and whether or not the church, as a hierarchy, had been involved in covering it up. can we simultaneously have enthusiasm for this pope and want to make sure that there is justice done, that may extend way back before him? >> yes. one of the things that really excites me about this pope is that before he came along, justice, poverty, equal rights had pretty much dissipated from

the catholic tradition, where the papacy was concerned. this week, he's speaking against the backdrop of a picture with archbishop oscar ramero. and he has decided, the news has come out, that he's going to continue the process and move archbishop ramero along the sainthood process. no greater guarantor than the rights of those who have stomped upon, and repressed than the military juntas and the like. as long as we continue to see this kind of an emphasis from this pope, and we continue to make sure that he stays on that platform, i think this is an exciting time. >> more when we come back, because i want to talk about how this pope and also just the notion of a jesuit in this position, gives us some conversation about the rise of a religious left and whether or not any of my nonbeliever viewers even care if there's a rise in the religious left. with the spark cash card

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for the past 30 years, religion in american politics has been dominated by the religious right. mostly white, socially conservative, evangelical christians. there are some signs that a religious progressive movement is gaining steam. a july survey by the public religion research institute and the brookings institution found that millennials are more likely to be religious progressives than gen xers and the elderly. and progressive religious leaders are working hard to build coalitions across faiths, races, and generations, like what we've seen at the moral monday protests in north carolina. they are trying to show that their progressive politics, especially their efforts to protect the social safety net, are deeply rooted in their moral and religious beliefs. and you said this earlier, that for your students at howard, there's no disconnect between the social and the question of the morality of our public life

and the morality of our private life. >> that's right. i think for all of us around this table, it has to be a given that there can be no disconnect between sacred and secular, which also leads to all the other disconnects, divisions in society that have to be overcome with the same recognition that the sacred is manifest in every aspect of our lives. there is no sense of being a person of faith, if you are not also a person who is faithful. the very term progressive dignifies and kenotes action. so those of us engaged in faith demands that we be acting on behalf of those. >> and that's a core principle and this pope is part of that, right? he walks it. he doesn't just see it, but we speak it in his actions. >> the jesuits, i think, and the catholic church more broadly transcend these categories of left and right, liberal, conservative. because you could have someone who is against abortion and for

social justice for the poor. but what he's doing, he's trying to bring us back to the central message of the gospel. which is love, forgiveness, and mercy, and caring for the poor, which has become a hallmark of his papacy. and as you said, from the very first decision he made, which is to choose the name francis, after francis of assisi. so it's a different style and message, and the people are very happy to hear it. and the faces of those are telling us how the people receive it. >> and this is a key one, we're seeing, actually, this notion of, if i am catholic and fully in my catholicism, standing fully in my faith, being pro-life is part of that, but so, too, is being pro-assistance for the poor. we talk about the u.s. conference of bishops more public policy, it has been around the aca and the birth control, and the big anxiety that generated. less controversy around the fact that they sent a letter to congress saying, please do not cut food stamps, right? sending a letter saying, i write

to urge you to resist for moral and human reasons the unacceptable cuts to hunger and nutrition programs. these cuts are unjustified and wrong. how do we make sure that that part of the voice, of religion, emerges on to the public stage more clearly? >> i have to say, first of all, that this is not a new movement. if we look back a hundred years, it was the religious leaders who decided, okay, i have people dying in my congregation. and i have to -- and they're dying because they're poor. what does the gospel say about that? and haas how we got the social gospel movement and a lot of the enactments like food stamps, like social security. a lot of that came out of the church's push, saying, we need a society that represents our moral values. >> your last nation is raushenbush for a reason. and it is, in fact, the work of christianity and the social crisis that was part of, kind of tweaking the american consciousness around inequality initially. >> that's right. and if you look at the catholic bishops today and if you look at

a broad section. i mean, evangelicals, white evangelicals are getting behind immigration issues and they are saying, no, this is not the way we treat the poor, not the way we treat the stranger. they're seeing this issue and saying, okay, what does the bible really say about this? and they're going back to it and saying, okay, no, this is not what we stand for. we are going to be more just what we preach. >> so if i'm watching and part of nederland and i'm a nonbeliever. not only if i'm a nonbeliever, when i look across history on balance, religion does a lot of bad things, a lot of harm, a lot of war. what is the message you have about the message of a new religious coalition that includes, also, the respect for nonbelievers within that. >> so, when i talk about building the multi-faith movement for justice, which is the language that i prefer, i'm talking about a coalition that -- and i am part of, hopefully, part of helping this

to grow, and i'm witnessing it, across the country, where christians, including evangelicals and progressives, often, and jews and muslims and sec your particulular humanistsg together around secular issues. there have to be bridges that are built in lots of different ways that would include bringing people who don't affiliate. >> and sometimes that also means we'll disagree with one another, it. that we could have different positions on reproductive rights, but the same position around care for the poor, and that may be at least a place for us to build. thank you to reverend dr. rhodes, to reverend paul raushenbush. thanks so much. up next, spiritual life coach, iyanla vanzant is here. [ male announcer ] when you wear dentures you may not know

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since trayvon martin was shot and killed last year, a lot of focus has been placed on what we, as a society, can and should

do to help save black men and boys in our communities. this week, congress got involved, inviting martin's father, tracy, to speak at the first-ever gathering of the first congressional caucus on black men and boys. we highlighted the concerns facing black boys on this show recently, when i spoke to author and spiritual life coach, iyanla vanzant. we spoke about father lessons and the subject of her show, iyanla: fix my life, on the oprah winfrey network. what about our black girls and those who mother them. what about the struggles and public safety questions faced by young black women? the latest edition of "iyanla: fix my life" will premiere at 9:00 p.m. on own and focus on black mothers and daughters. here with me to discuss it and much, much more is the one and only iyanla van zandt, who beginning in september will be a columnist for "o" magazine.

thanks for joining us. >> thanks for having he. >> so we do a lot of work as mamas on our daughters. so what is the thing you're working in this particular episode, what is it you're trying to do to heal between this mother and daughter? >> language, actually. the gist of tonight's episode is about a mother's language, that was used in her daughter's life, and how it created a breakdown in their relationship. but for me, i think the episode is really not about daughters or sons, it's about our children. and i often think that as parents, and particularly in today's world, that we really forget how important we are as parents in our children's lives. and that everything that we do leaves an imprint on our children's soul. and this story is about what happened when a parent didn't recognize that. >> i want to show a scene from it that really, in the context

of what we've been watching with sybrina fulton, who is, in certain ways, become the mother, to whom we are all looking. and yet, this moment was a powerful one. i would like to watch it for a moment. >> what has she done, that is so horrible that you would allow her to die a slow death? >> this lady right here, really don't know what it's like to be loved. have no clue. nobody loves me. and i'm okay with that. >> no, you're not. >> but it will be okay. >> no, it will not. >> sadness is weak. >> i feel so uncomfortable with this emotion. >> sadness is weak. >> and that is what she said.

so many mothers of color, that is a badge we wear. if i show my weakness, if i'm vulnerable, i am going to be hurt, people are going to take advantage of me. but in the meantime, we shut off a piece of our heart that our children need, and we shut off that compassion and tenderen and nurturing and we become disciplinarians and providers, but we're not the soft place for our children to fall. we're affect our boys, it affects our girls, but more importantly, it affects us. because now that this mother is older and her children are older, she doesn't understand what happened, why they don't have a good relationship. >> and as i'm watching that, and as i hear you talking about failing ourselves by thinking that sadness is itself weakness, i'm thinking, it also fails us in the realm of public policy. >> oh, absolutely. >> if we cannot be tender to our own children, how can we be tender to someone else's child who needs public assistance. if we become disciplinarians in our law making.

>> well, you know, we're talking about the problems with black girls, the problem with black girls, the problem with brown children. what about the native children on the reservation? here's the issue. as adults, as lawmakers, as policy makers, really where and our compassionate self as people, do we hold our children. they don't vote, they don't pay taxes. they don't contribute to the voice of public policy. and children, today, are what. are they commodities, are they tax deductions? are they burdens? are they just things that we have hanging around. because we can't keep looking at what's wrong with the children. they are the fruit. we have to say, what's going on with the tree. >> okay. i want to listen to sybrina fulton. i feel like she's calling us to do exactly the thing that you have just said. i want to listen to trayvon martin's mother, sybrina fulton, at the national urban league this week. >> what is my message to you? my message to you is, please use

my story, please use my tragedy, please use my broken heart to say to yourself, we cannot let this happen to anybody else's child. >> she's extraordinary, how she holds the sadness and the grief and the strength at the same time. and then tells us, take it. go use it. >> but we didn't do it with michael stewart, we didn't do it with sean bell. we didn't do it with the jenna six. and my concern is, is not my prayer -- my prayer is for something higher. but my concern that we'll get all whipped up, six months from now, we'll be on to something else, because our children really don't matter. and particularly, the lives of black and brown boys really don't matter. if you recall, years ago, maybe ten years ago, the upheaval was

the pregnant girl. the pregnant teenager. and everybody was saying, well, what about the boys? what about the boys? it was like we didn't even have teenage boys until we started killing them and until they started killing each other. now it's, what about the boys, what about the boys? well, what about our children? what is wrong with the tree that the fruit should be so rotten? and that the fruit should be so discarded. this is what we have to do. lawmakers, policy makers. i mean, our educational system in this country is a disgrace. and we have to say it. and we have to stop acting like it doesn't matter. you know, the hate crimes against our children. >> yep. stay with me, because i want to stay on exactly this topic. and i want to bring it a little bit back to this question of sort of the girls reproducing as the big problem, because we're starting to hear that narrative again. quick break. we'll be back after this.

i'm back and having the

opportunity to talk with iyanla vanzant. i wanted to take a moment, because you said there was this sort of moral panic about our girls. we're seeing it reemerge. bill o'reilly said something this week that i would like us to take a listen to. >> raight now, about 73% of all black babies are born out of wedlock. that drives poverty and the lack of involved fathers leads to young boys growing up resentful and unsupervised. when was the last time you saw a public service ad telling young black girls to avoid becoming pregnant? >> let me just fix myself. >> fix your face! >> because daniel moynihan called me a menace to society. i was 16 years old and pregnant. and when he made that famous speech, i was called a menace to society. so today, as an attorney,

holding a masters degree, hosting the number one talk show on cable network, i just want to say to mr. o'reilly, i'm going to pray for you. >> but for real, though! right? >> but what about white girls? we act like white girls don't have vaginas and white boys don't have penises. they get pregnant too, but it's not -- this is the same way that black and brown boys are demoralized, diminished, and demeaned in society. this teenage pregnancy thing is happening all over the place. trust me, i get the letters, i know. >> and can we talk about the fact that avoiding becoming pregnant -- there are public policies that can help that, like comprehensive sex ed, the availability of birth control. >> how about books in school? how about teachers that teach a history -- now i'm being spiritual, let me stop. >> breathe! all right. >> how about an educational system that serves the needs of

our children? how about after-school centers? how about libraries. how about that, mr. o'reilly? >> so you talk about your circumstances of having been a mother on public assistance, teenage -- you're also, in this moment, as we are reflecting on the zimmerman verdict, you're also a mother who lost a child. >> yeah. >> she was an adult. >> yes. >> but at any age, no mother should bury her child. >> it's unspeakable. and there's no -- the pain lessens, but it never goes away. and it's a piece of my soul. it's a piece of my soul, so i stand with trayvon's mother as a, you know, they talk about a motherless child, they rarely talk about a childless mother. and even though i have two other children, that place that that child held in my heart, it's unspeakable. there are just no -- there's just no words to describe what it is. and there's a lesson here. and i hope we are getting the lesson. look at the way that these two

divorced parents were together throughout this process. the way they parented this child. the fact that trayvon was not a father lesson. are we missing that? and that his father is now, as he probably did then, stood up for his son. that the mother moved on with her life and is in good relationship with the child's father. so there's a lot of lessons here. this family didn't go through this just for headline news. there's lessons here. things that we have to look at and pay attention to and learn from and not forget, not forget, not only trayvon, but the whole message of the diminishing of black and brown boys in this country. >> yeah, the fact that those unmarried parents could parent their child, even after his death. >> that's right. >> and through such horrendous circumstances. i mean, all of us have just got to grow up and parent our living children, whether we're married or not, right? they are such a model for us.

one last thing i want you to respond to. we heard this week from juror 29, and i want to ask you -- i want to listen to her for a moment and ask you one question. >> george zimmerman got away with murder. but you can't get away from god. and at the end of the day, he's going to have a lot of questions and answers he has to deal with. >> as i was watching her, and knowing that we were going to talk, i kept thinking, i wish she'd had a session you before. mostly because, i see you consistently teach women how to stand up inside of themselves, even when there's pressure, even when there's -- because it sounds like this is a woman who could have gotten us a very different outcome, but just didn't have the resources, the tools to stand in that moment with the five other jurors. >> yeah. and it's sad to think that she said there wasn't enough evidence. we've got a living adult and a dead child. and there wasn't enough evidence

for justice to happen. that's one level of it. that's enough to boggle your brain. but then as a minority woman in the room with five other women who probably had more exposure to law, you know, maybe not -- maybe not that, i don't know, but i can't even imagine what that must have been like for her. and the fact that she says that zimmerman is going to have to answer to god, so is she. >> yeah, i don't want -- >> do what you know is right, even when nobody's looking. >> i don't want to book your show for you, because y'all are doing fine, but i'm just saying, that is an episode. you and juror 29, i would watch. iyanla vanzant, thank you so much for being here. we are going to come back in just a few moments. and when we do, it is our foot soldier of the week. you're going to love her. she is a woman giving tools to girls to build the world. [ brent ] this guy's a pro, herbie.

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take a look another this chart. this is breakdown of jobs in america. men hold 52% and women hold 48%. then take a look at this chart. this shows how many men and how many women hold jobs in the fields of science, technology, engineering an math or s.t.e.m. less than quart eer are held by women. in engineering alone the numbers are less. one in every seven engineers is a woman. this week's foot soldier is trying to change that. >> i'm starting a toy company called goldiblocks to have little girls love engineers as much as i do. it stars goldie and her friends who solve problems by buildi ii simple machines. they get to build with their

tools. >> joining us is debbie sterling. how did you come up with this idea? >> i studied engineering at stanford. not lot of women in the program. i was talking with a girlfriend and we were trying to figure out why. she said she grew up playing with leggos, lincoln logs. that's what got her excited about engineering. we thought what a shame those are boys toys. that's when it hit me i had to come up with something that would appeal to girls. i knew taking a boy's toy and turning it pink wouldn't be enough. >> if you go into a toy store one aisle has things you do and one aisle has everything painted pink. you hold the baby or you push the barbie or something. these are meant to not just be a

pink lincoln log but adifferent way to respond. >> i found something interesting about little girls. they love reading and stories and characters. they love narrative based play. instead of just building something for the sake of building if i started creating stories about a girl inventor they would identify with her, relate with her and want to do what she does. if she builds then they will build too. what better if she builds things that solve problems and help her friends then they really get engaged. >> i love the idea of i can build it but why. why are we building this thing? for me that clearly seems to be part of the different processing. how have people reacted to this? >> the response has been overwhelming. first of all, it's a conversation starter. we sort of shined a light on that pink aisle and people starting to question why is it all the science and math toys

have been marketed to boys for so long and my daughter is more than a princess. >> she can be a princess and build something. >> just an enormous gap for educational s.t.e.m. products for girls. this is the first step. >> what difference does it make if there's more girls building with these kinds of sets who become women who are engineers. >> h how does it change engineering? >> i think it's critical to have the women's perspective in engineers. engineers built this table, phones, apps, bridges. literally everything in our world is built by engineers. the world should be built by both perspectives. >> if you are a parent and your daughter is like just not good at math. find this kind of thing hard.

how do you sort of encourage without pushing too hard? >> i think it's important to reenforce that ability in math and science isn't something you're born with, it's something you develop and somewhere to keep trying. pick it up and try it a different way. that's what i'm trying to reenforce with this toy. >> our favorite kids show is doc mcstuffin. i feel like they would appreciate the goldiblocks toys. you are our foot soldier this week. it's lovely to have chance to talk with you. that's going to do it for us today. we will dive deep into one of the most important decisions president obama will face. who will replace ben bernanke.

it's the last day of the national urban league's conference. a day after a very stirring message from trayvon martin. i'll talk with the urban league head. how can cities on the brink use detroit to save themselves? it's fascinating look at what's happen ng the motor city. aisle talk with a time magazine reporter. edward snowden's father with a new appeal to u.s. government. forbes magazine with the list of the best colleges. why some schools are completely off the list? i'll be back. the tide's coming in! this is my favorite one. it's upside down. oh, sorry. (woman vo) it takes him places he's always wanted to go. that's why we bought a subaru.

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[poof!] [clicks mouse] there's doughnuts in the conference room. there's doughnuts in the conference room. automatic discounts the moment you sign up. a new push for the middle class. more this morning from president obama on trying to even the economic playing field. we have a live report from the white house. the spectacular and deadly train crash. new word on how officials are putting more focus on the dr.