kicked him up. in an upset they elected a woman who was the superintendent of public construction, she ran against school vouchers, so tony of bennett took his talents and believes to florida, where he was the school chief. and hoping that what happens in indiana stays in indiana. that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again, time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell, have a great night. today was round two of rand paul versus chris christie, now guess which one used fact his in his argument? and guess what one was able to keep his argument completely fact-free? >> most washington politicians only care about bringing home the bacon. >> two big republicans lost in a nasty feud. >> i have nothing personal against him. >> chris christie took a shot at

rand paul. >> if he cared about protecting the country, maybe he wouldn't be in the give me, give me. the way we defend our country is by being frugal. >> maybe he should start to cut the spending he brings home to kentucky. >> a military judge has found bradley manning not guilty. >> we're not lacking for ideas, we're just lacking action, and especially out of washington. >> we lead off with the president. the president will be at an amazon warehouse in chattanooga, tennessee. >> i spoke at good length about this. >> if you thought we would do a whole show without mentioning anthony weiner, think again. >> i think he has invalidated himself. >> anthony weiner is still running for mayor. >> it is not about you know, rising yourself up. raising, taking a picture of it and sending it to a few girls. >> polls don't stop the election. >> there are a lot of people who are saying a lot of things about

this campaign. >> anthony weiner's campaign manager quit. >> i think i have said pretty much everything i have to say about that. >> weiner didn't give him a severance, but he did offer him a package. the feud between republicans rand paul and chris christie is getting hotter, last night, rand paul brought his give me, give me tirade to fox news. >> i think it is sad and cheap that he would use the cloak of 9/11 victims and say, oh, i'm the only one who cares about these victims. if he really cared maybe he wouldn't be doing this give me, give me, give me all the money you have in washington. and maybe he would be a little more fiscally responsible, and know the way we defend the

country is by being frugal, and not doing the give me, give me, give me. >> after rand paul talked about give me, give me, i turned it around. for every dollar that they send to washington, it gets back 77 cents, where does the 22 cents go? to rand paul's states, and other states, think of the give me states that take much more from the federal government than they ever pay for in federal tax revenue. for every dollar, rand paul's kentucky sends to washington, kentucky gets back $1.57. chris christie might be seeking the electoral votes of rand paul's give me, give me, give me state some day. so he will probably use a different line of defense against rand paul's give me, give me, give me nonsense. i was so wrong. not about the dollars and cents.

but about chris christie. he went there today. >> senator paul wants to start looking at where he is going to cut spending to afford defense? maybe he should start to cut the pork barrel defense he sends home to kentucky at $1.51 for every dollars and not look at new jersey where we get 61 cents per dollar, maybe he should look at that before he looks at the federal side. because most washington politicians only care about bringing home the bacon. >> and rand paul foolishly talked about bacon. >> this is the king of bacon, we have two military bases in kentucky. and is governor chris christie recommending we shut down the military bases? he wants to be this great champion of the military?

what does he want to do, shut down the military bases? he is making a big mistake fighting with the republicans, because the republican party is shrinking there on the east coast, attacking me is not helping the party, he is hurting the party. >> two military bases in kentucky, wow, that will shut down chris christie. rand paul obviously doesn't know that new jersey has eight military bases, six more than kentucky. but even that is not enough for new jersey to actually make a profit from the federal government the way kentucky does. chris christie thinks that rand paul's thoroughly ignorant attacks on him have turned personal. and that is okay with chris christie. >> i got nothing personal against senator paul, if we disagree on certain issues, we disagree. his response seems to be he has something personal against me,

but that is okay. >> joining me now, former white house press secretary robert gibbs, and analyst steve schmidt. so robert gibbs, obviously, chris christie has got nothing personal against rand paul here. >> i feel like we just walked into the cafeteria on "animal house" and they just yelled food fight. it seems like we stepped into the middle of it. it seems to be happening increasingly as republicans work through personality actions and getting to the point to see who leads their group. >> steve schmidt, chris christie cherry picked his numbers a little bit, using the 2005 numbers instead of the 2010 numbers because they look a little better in this argument for new jersey. and that was the difference between my numbers and chris christie's numbers. but i was very, very surprised,

steve, because as i said last night, the profiteers states, the give me, give me, give me states as rand paul would call them, happen to include iowa, new hampshire, florida, south carolina, exactly where you got to start off your presidential campaign and that line -- for chris christie is not going to work in those states. >> well, who knows if it works or doesn't work in the states? i think that what works for chris christie, you saw it play out, lawrence, the absolute fearlessness in talking about the issues. you see him standing behind the podium. he is a major league political talent and i think he man-handled him. both are going to run for president, i don't think rand paul looked too great in the last two days, seemed a little mealy mouthed to me. as you look at what happens

between the libertarian party, the conservative wing of the party we'll have a monumental debate for the future of the party. and i think these two will be at the center of it. >> rob, steve makes a very good point about the character of chris christie's reply. i'm going to stand here and fight, and maybe the details are not going to be what matters to the voters in south carolina. he does have an issue. i think that probably most republicans in the primary states believe that new jersey is some kind of drain on the federal treasury. >> well, look, even if you -- earlier in that clip, he says this started because i was asked a question and i just -- when people ask me questions i just give plain, simple answers. i think that is why steve talks about him being such a major league talent. he was also quick in that press conference to say i think several times, i don't represent washington, i'm not in washington. you know, he has walked away from being washington.

so steve also said, this is the beginning of the -- the argument that we'll see that i think will play out for quite sometime, and that is conservatives and libertarians, and where they clash on certain issues, particularly around national security and privacy. and a lot of things i think that will be interesting to watch play out over the next two years. >> i want to play something that the last paul presidential candidate said in a republican debate when asked about foreign aid and specifically foreign aid to israel, let's listen to that. >> congressman paul, would you cut aid to israel. >> i would cut all foreign aid, i would treat everyone equally and fairly. >> so steve schmidt, that is part of why rand paul ended up with 8%, i think vote and delegates going into the republican convention. and as long -- and rand paul is saying for things like hurricane

aid, sandy aid to new jersey they should have just taken it out of foreign aid to pay for it. that is where the paul family always goes for the money. but that is also the kind of approach in republican primary that leaves you in the end with nothing really to trade on at a convention. >> no, look, at the end of the someday, if you're running to be commander-in-chief in a difficult, dangerous complex world. talking about ending foreign aid for every country in the world just -- displays a stunning naivete about america's role in the world. and i think there is a consensus in both parties that that is the idea that is pretty far field from the main stream of american politics. rand paul's top strategic challenge is to the degree to have he is able to distance himself from his father. but if he is going to run as a diet coke version of the old man he is going to have a very, very

difficult time in a republican primary. he is trying to mainstream himself. he had a very difficult month with the wacko who was on his staff, the southern avenger, and if you're running for president you can't carry people like that with you in close proximity. it it very disqualifying. i don't think he has had a very easy month. it will be interesting to see if he has the talent to play at the level that he is seeking to go to next. >> well, you know, robert, i have to say i thought rand paul in the primary debates when you got into the foreign policy stuff he was very well grounded. it was within the american politico rth -- i don't get that feeling when rand paul ventures into the territories, he feels like he is a much shakier public speaker than his father was. >> well, it will be interesting to watch this evolution.

because maybe partly what goes through his mind when he gets these questions -- >> he is trying to do the calculations like his father never did. >> yeah, he is trying to just run into the breach, it is clear when you watch rand paul if he gets way too far out on this, his father on national security, he is never going to broaden his base, never be a serious competitor. he will have a very hard time raising money in the republican primary, and he will never be a major factor. >> don't mess with new jersey is the lesson, steve schmidt, thank you both for joining me. coming up, a challenge offered today. you will hear it in the president's own words. and in the rewrite tonight, what would happen if mcdonald's didn't just raise wages? what would happen if they doubled the wages of the workers at mcdonald's? all the workers who create those

profits. how much would a big mac cost? the answer is yeah, you could still afford one. and we'll have the latest on the campaign, with ari melber. and we'll get a little help tonight with a psychiatrist. yet they're closing thousands of offices, slashing service and want to layoff over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains $5 billion a year from post office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts. congress created this problem, and congress can fix it. i don't miss out... you sat out most of our game yesterday! asthma doesn't affect my job... you were out sick last week. my asthma doesn't bother my family... you coughed all through our date night! i hardly use my rescue inhaler at all.

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former president bill clinton is upset that anthony weiner is comparing his sexting to his cheating. bill clinton said yeah, real men cheat in. >> coming up. the analysis to the president's speech, coming up next. i think farmers care more about the land

than probably anyone else. we've had this farm for 30 years. we raise black and red angus cattle. we also produce natural gas. that's how we make our living and that's how we can pass the land and water back to future generations. people should make up their own mind what's best for them. all i can say is it has worked well for us.

we're not lacking for ideas -- we're just lacking action, especially out of washington. if folks in washington really want a grand bargain, how about a grand bargain for middle class jobs? how about a grand bargain for middle class jobs? i don't -- i don't want to go through the same old arguments where i propose an idea and the republicans just say no because it is my idea. i'm willing to work with republicans on reforming our tax code as long as we use the money from transitioning to a simpler tax system for a significant investment in creating middle class jobs. that is the deal. >> with 1,270 days left in his

presidency, president obama went today to an amazon shipping facility in tennessee to offer a new deal to congressional republicans. >> the good news is, there are a growing number of republican senators who are trying to work with democrats to get some stuff done. that is good news. the bad news is, that rather than keep our focus on what should be our priority, which is growing our economy and creating good middle class jobs, we've seen a certain faction of republicans in congress, hurt a fraction of the economy saying they wouldn't propose a bill that congress racked up in the first place, threatening to hurt the public getting rid of obama care. >> joy, another week, another president on the road. you can feel that he is very mindful of that 1,270 days, he

mentioned the number of days he has left, he is counting every one. >> and you have to love his enthusiasm. this is a president that understands he won't get anything through the house of representatives. you notice he says there are some senators who are trying to work with him and trying to pass legislation. the house is doing absolutely nothing and he is really now leaning on his executive authority, understanding that he probably can't get another big thing done with this congress. and he said in one of the interviews, look, they think i usurped my authority. >> he also understands that he is in one of those jobs where not only can you not give up, you can never appear to even consider giving up. and that is what you see out there today with that speech. and at minimum, he is identifying for voters where he believes the problem is going forward. and it is not in the white house. >> right, this is -- i think you read today's speech as part of a

process. he will continue to give the economic speeches, laying out his vision, his ideas, his proposed policies. he will point out that many of them were republican proposed policies at one point. but you know, corporate tax reform, which he proposed today will be like everything else. you know, the republicans for years say you know, we got to do this, got to do this, got to do this. and then obama says let's do it. and they say no way we're doing this. so it is clearly -- joy is right, it doesn't look like anything is going to actually happen. >> and max bacchus, has been able to work previously with the ranking republican member there, orrin hatch, on exactly this kind of thing. and they would of course, not be terribly controversial to allow some of the revenue to go to purposes other than just reducing rates. but now, it is very difficult for senator hatch who was there back in the day when republicans

were there, willing to do that. >> and even going back further than that, bob dole, the eisenhower policy, reducing the corporate tax rate, which was 3% over what paul ryan was asking for in the last election. it was also the rolling, the spending if you want to call it into republicans going back to the '50s, the road infrastructure, through good, hard work that americans could do, good, honest work, and even the idea of funding it into community colleges. they say oh, they just want to pour money into the colleges, well, obama is saying no, let's put it into community colleges. you know, lawrence, i'll be honest. the speech i wish barack obama would give is tell the american people send me a congress in 2014 that will build a road or a bridge. send me a congress that will spend money on your kid.

i didn't run my last campaign, in next campaign, my last campaign is in 2014. >> well, gene, isn't that exactly where this speech is going and he really is just looking at the calendar and feeling that it will feel premature to the voters and to phrase it that way. >> i think like a good lawyer he is laying the foundation for the eventual call, looking for a different congress in 2014. we may have different speeches, different speeches on different topics down the road. but ultimately i think that is where it leads. >> let's listen to the president talk today about what he calls the republicans jobs plan. >> i have got to tell you, just gutting our environmental protection, that is not a jobs plan. gutting investments in education, that is not a jobs plan. yeah, they keep on talking about the -- an oil pipeline coming down from canada.

that is estimated to create about 50 permanent jobs. that is not a jobs plan. wasting the country's time by taking something like that 40 meaningless votes to repeal obama care is not a jobs plan. that is not a jobs plan. >> joy reid, there is a campaign sound to that part of the speech. >> i think that is the obama i'm rooting for. because he doesn't say things like if we just put our nose to the wheel we can get this job done, no, congress is trying to repeal obama care 40 times, he recognizes it as we recognize it. and i think eugene is right, saying we need these seats to get things through, let's have that. >> thank you for joining us tonight. coming up in the rewrite, what raising the minimum wage

would do for workers and the price of big macs. but first, is anthony weiner's campaign for mayor really a cry for help? that is next. [ male announcer ] these days, a small business can save by sharing. like carpools... polly wants to know if we can pick her up. yeah, we can make room. yeah. [ male announcer ] ...office space. yes, we're loving this communal seating. it's great. [ male announcer ] the best thing to share? a data plan. at&t mobile share for business. one bucket of data for everyone on the plan, unlimited talk and text on smart phones. now, everyone's in the spirit of sharing. hey, can i borrow your boat this weekend? no. [ male announcer ] share more. save more. at&t mobile share for business. ♪

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now what i would like to talk about is housing in the bronx. any questions about that? >> do you have a sexual disorder that you may have been diagnosed with? >> in the spotlight tonight, anthony weiner, once again.

the woman who most recently revealed new body images sent to her by anthony weiner. sidney leathers said this today on howard stern's show about her sexting relationship with anthony weiner. >> do you think he may actually think this is not cheating? >> i don't think he really gives a [ bleep ] to be honest, i'm carlos danger, doing whatever i want. started to fizzle out. and i just kind of stopped answering my phone calls, and he would get like a jerk, just like a teenage boy, just this needy little [ bleep ]. >> she so hates the attention about this. anthony weiner's phone calls, and relying entirely on psychiatrists. the doctor told the times, it is

almost as if a little child were playing at being a politician and trying to hide something. mr. weiner's habit of sending women graphic photographs of his body, dr. freedman said somebody with a deep insecurity about his masculinity. also, the element that he chose for one of his on-line relationships, carlos danger, also hints that any feelings of being inadequate could be long-standing. it is as if you are exposed to the processes of a 9-year-old boy. and when dennis hammel of the "new york news" asked if there was another woman's shoe to drop in this campaign, anthony weiner said "i have no idea, these are people i thought were friends. people i trusted when i communicated with them, but who

knows what they may do now? but none of it is new, it is all old stuff, but i'll be in this race for the next 44 days and i think i can win." the weiner campaign countered all of this stuff today with this new web ad. >> you know, sometimes people say this campaign is pretty must have, you may want to quit. i know to there are newspaper editors and other politicians saying boy, i wish weiner would quit. they don't know new york, they don't know me, quit is not the way we roll in new york city. >> joining me now are msnbc, ari melber. doctor, if you had a patient who was involved in a lot of -- kind of wild, uncontrollable texting,

sexting, this sort of thing, kind of what you heard about in this anthony weiner case, and that patient was running for mayor of new york and there were 44 days left in the campaign and all of this was happening, what would you recommend that patient would do for his own mental health? >> well, i think it is a great question -- >> thank you, i worked on it all day. >> but i also think he is not necessarily thinking about it in the way of mental health. i think the way he is sort of speaking to the media, he is acting as if this is something that is quote unquote behind him. and i don't think he is taking accountability or responsibility for his choices. the fact that he in any way engaged, which was publicly acknowledged, although it was not brought out into now in the media, he is not really aware of the real consequences to his behavior. he doesn't have good reality testing or somehow he thinks he

is above consequence. and i think this is the reality there, he doesn't expect the constituents to think it even happened, that he has on receivi-- to engage in the type of behavior is something that really raises red flags for me. >> this goes to something that ari and i talked about. we're trying to see if there is a connection between this and somebody's function as mayor, and budget documents, in terms of what to do with pay raises, asking in your experience have you seen people with this kind of situation going on who also function perfectly okay in their jobs as lawyers or whatever it is they are. >> well, i think that we all have the capacity to function at a certain level. but is he at -- sort of his

optimal level? i am not sure how that is possible. because so much energy is going into engaging in the behavior or restrict this behavior or cover up this behavior. so the ability to think clearly and rationally, when it is sort of being channelled for these other purposes really doesn't leave him with the resources to do the job. >> ari, it seems to me like there may be 30 good campaign days here that are possible for weiner. meaning this -- sidney, what is her name, leathers, eventually she is going to have done every show that she wants to go on and talk about him. and then she is going to eventually go away. and she he is going to keep goi out there for the next 44 days. he is going to keep trying, he may get this race to calm down to the point where he won't come in first, but he will have

completed what now seems to be his mission. which is just to complete this thing all the way to washington. >> yeah, i think there is the politics of this and the question of criteria. there are plenty of people who had scandals. david vitter had a prostitution scandals, some thought it was a big deal. others elected him by 19 points. he is a republican that never went through the type that eliot spitzer went through, or weiner, eliot spitzer is in a tight race, has not had the oxygen used up. weiner's point, does it take so much that he falls out of the top two in a race where we have a primary between two people. i assume you have not diagnosed him. and i think one concern here is that we separate, view it at a distance from the diagnosis, somebody talked about whether or not he could be bipolar.

that is a very serious diagnosis. >> we all noted that they haven't seen the patients, and all that. but they're left with this behavior, they're doing their best. and we are asking the psychiatrist for their help on this political story, which needs definite psychiatric input. can you help us with the new york voter and the public? and why people see this so differently from actual sex scandals that involved actual touching a human being, like as in the bill clinton case, ari and i have been having trouble, seeing why this outrages people. it seems, especially liberals and democrats who defend it, the bill clintons of the world and others. they are completely horrified by this conduct for some reason. >> well, it is striking to me -- >> what is wrong with them? >> you know, what i am most

struck by is the fact that -- again, it is a sexual behavior, acting out. it certainly is a behavior that we don't expect from a politician or somebody in public office. >> ari and i do, we know politici politicians. we're so un-surprised. >> the thing that really strikes me here the most, clinically, the fact that this is repetition, the facts that he had resigned from office, had all of that public attention. and knew in his mind's eye that he would be running this race and engage in this behavior. >> when you pay a public, humiliating price, even though you think the behavior is okay but you have paid that price and you want to get back into the public arena where they will make you pay that price again, that is what is so peculiar

here. >> and potentially, it is diagnostic, i haven't evaluated him. so i can't give a clinical diagnosis. the reality testing. how is it that he thinks he is above that accountability, that somehow in his magical thinking, this wouldn't come home to roost. and somehow, he is above and beyond the accountability for that behavior. >> ari melber, and dr. flemming, thank you both for joining us. coming up, what the bradley manning case tells us about the ed snowden case. and rewriting the minimum wage and the price of big macs. ♪

it was very painful situation. the rash was on my right hip, going all the way down my leg. i'm very athletic and i swim in the ocean. shingles forced me out of the water. the doctor asked me "did you have chickenpox when you were a child?" the pain level was so high,

it became unbearable. but, dad, you've got... [ voice of dennis ] allstate. with accident forgiveness, they guarantee your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. [ voice of dennis ] indeed. are you in good hands? former governor sarah palin is alaska republican's top choice to challenge democratic senator mark beggett in 2014, even though polls indicate she couldn't beat him in the general election. a public poll shows she has 36% of the voters. but he wins by 12 points, 58% of alaska voters view sarah palin unfavorab

unfavorably. what were you afraid of? that was so good. i was watching the monitor over there. that was completely professional. >> thank you. >> as we continue intern week, this is your last week. >> yes, sadly. >> now, josi, who did it last night, she actually had, i discovered the fact had had on-camera experience. in her college, she does the local -- but you don't want to be on camera, this is the most terrifying thing you have done? >> awful, but now i like it. >> it looked like you have done this a thousand times. >> thank you. >> so much for your stage fright. >> i know, i'm getting over it. >> all right, we got to go do some commercials, come back and do some more tv show. you finish the show, you do it. i'll leave now. i'm done. over a quarter million properties... you'll never want to leave. booking.com booking.yeah

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wage to $9 an hour. >> that was president obama in his last state of the union address in february. and here is what the president had to say about the minimum wage today. >> because nobody who works full-time in america should have to live in poverty, i'm going to keep on making the case and fighting for the fact that we need to raise our minimum wage. because right now, it has not happened since ronald reagan took office. >> yesterday, thousands of fast food workers walked off their jobs in cities across the country. in new york city, they estimated a thousand workers converged on union square after walking off their jobs earlier this month, at the mcdonald's at 131st and broadway. in the worst heat wave, one worker fainted, while others walked off the job.

around that same time, mcdonald's was widely criticized for handing their workers budgets to pinch their pennies, the wages that mcdonald's pays them. there were no entries for food or clothing, and only $20 a month for health insurance, when the health insurance that mcdonald's offers the full-time workers is almost triple that amount. but what the most attention was the second line. the second line is income from a second job, which means that mcdonald's was blatantly, officially admitting that it is impossible to survive on a mcdonald's job alone. wnbc's rod schmidt found one mcdonald's worker yesterday in union square who is following the mcdonald's suggestion of carrying a second job. >> i have two boys, six and 12, i couldn't afford to buy

anything for their graduation. >> kareem starks works for a mcdonald's in brooklyn, and says he pays about 800 a month, his second job pays the rest for food. he barely gets buy. >> let's talk about the wage and what it is in the city. >> it just doesn't add up. >> the president knows what raising the minimum wage would mean to these workers. >> this would raise the income for millions of working families, meaning the difference between groceries or the food bank. rent or vacation. scraping by or finally getting ahead. >> mcdonald's refused to comment, and instead relied on their washington lobbyists to respond for the company. the heartless lobbyist said, restaurants operate on very thin profit margins, significant additional labor costs can negatively impact a restaurant's ability to hire or maintain jobs. but running the numbers of labor

costs at mcdonald's tells us another story. and the university of kansas research assistant has done just that. he found that mcdonald's total payroll is about 17.1% of its revenue. so he found that if you double, if you double every salary of every worker at mcdonald's including ceo donald thompson, who makes almost $9 million a year. if you double all that, including that big $9 million salary, and assuming that mcdonald's then decided to pass on every penny of that cost to the consumer, which they wouldn't have to do. but let's just assume that is the way mcdonald's would do that kind of thing. the price of a big mac, and remember you shouldn't be eating big mac's, they're not good for you, but the price of the big mac would increase to $6.46, and that is if you double every salary.

now, if you left out the ceo's $9 million salary. if you left it exactly where it is and you raised all the salaries of the people who were just actually working in the restaurants by saying oh, you know, 50%, you would probably add just about 25 cents to the cost. because labor cost's don't affect mcdonald's prices very much. in most states, the minimum is the same as in most, $7.25. in albany, new york, where that minimum is 7.25, a big mac costs 3.99. in riverside, california, a big mac also costs $3.99, but the minimum wage is a full cents higher, with no effect on the price there. nothing affects mcdonald's prices more than the value of commercial real estate where the store is located. so of course, some of the most

expensive big macs in the country are here in new york city, right around the corner from this building where they cost $4.69. which is also what a big mac will cost you on fillmore street in san francisco. where, get this, the local minimum wage is a full $3.30 higher than the minimum wage here in new york city. where the big mac is the same price, because you see san francisco has its own minimum wage on top of the federal -- minimum wage, and on top of california's minimum wage, which i said is higher than most states. san francisco's minimum wage is $10.55. and mcdonald's still wants to do business there. and still makes barrels and barrelin barrels of money there. >> for businesses across the country it would mean customers with more money in their pockets. and a whole lot of folks out

there would probably need less help from government. in fact, working folks shouldn't have to wait year after year for the minimum wage to go up. while ceo pay has never been higher. >> that is right. increasing the minimum wage is good for business. and it always has been. it puts more money in consumer's pockets. so what will really happen to mcdonald's the next time the minimum wage goes up? the very same thing that has happened to mcdonald's every time the minimum wage has gone up. mcdonald's will make more money. a lot more money. >> a family with two kids that earning the minimum wage still lives below the poverty line. that is wrong. announcer: where can an investor be a name and not a number? scottrade. ron: i'm never alone with scottrade. i can always call or stop by my local office.

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tomorrow begins the sentencing phase in the court martial of private first class bradley manning who now faces up to 136 years in prison, for leaking some 700,000 documents on the wars in iraq and afghanistan. today, the judge acquitted manning, of the most serious charge he faced, aiding the enemy, but found him guilty on 20 charges such as espionage and theft. >> it is a serious -- abuse, and it will mean the end of national security journals in the united states, as we know it. wikileaks and bradley manning's

support team will not rest until he is free. there was only ever one just outcome from this trial, and that was an acquittal. >> joining me now, steve clemens. he doesn't seem to know that if bradley manning was acquitted of even one of these charges, he had already pled guilty to charge that is would have put him in prison for 20 years. so freedom was not an option in the outcome today. >> you know, i don't think freedom was an option. but i do think that the notion about you know, both in the case of bradley manning and i would also say edward snowden, you know, two men are saying they saw things that a national security state were doing that needed a response. and so they took action. i think in the case of manning, who was deprived of his clothes, in hard-core solitary

confinement for a very long time with lots of questions about what the military was doing with just outrageous treatment. i think that while he has accepted the fact that he is going to be in jail for sometime, i think that he still you know, has you know, some redemption here for having been acquitted of the much more serious crime of aiding and abetting the enemy. >> and on that part of the case, what is your sense of what that means in terms of news gatherers, who will continue over time to try to work sources like this. >> well, i think across the board we had a real problem. you had jim risen of "the new york times" who had been compelled to testify, regarding our interactions with iran, we had the subpoenaing of grand jury materials. you and i talked about this a

lot. we don't know what else is out there. what other orders on grand jury investigations had been done. but when you add this up, we've seen the largest amount of security rollbacks to do their job. i think that is a very serious and disconcerts problem. you know, wikileaks in a way, and bradley manning's role, was largely involved in the secrecy in which they were curtailed. there will be a fourth and fifth and sixth, police from which the government tries to keep itself from being accountable, particularly in the national arena. >> ari, one of the sizes are this intelligence gathering that requires this many people, will

it be impossible to screen them, to keep your secrets at the nsa, you're going to get the ed snowdens coming in over time to these good evening, from new york. i'm chris hayes. tonight on "all in" a verdict in a trial the likes of which this country has not seen in 150 years. literally. why it matters to every american what wikileaker bradley manning was charged with and what he was convicted of today. also tonight religious scholar reza aslan, being the subject of the most embarrassing inie