adlai stevenson's detectivenition of things, the government has gotten a little too much into our space. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "politicsnation" with al sharpton starts right now. thanks, chris, and thanks to you for tuning in. i'm chris jansing tuning in for al sharpton, who will be joining us shortly. tonight's lead, face-to-face with her captor. remarkable drama unfolded inside the cleveland courtroom today. the cleveland kidnapper ariel castro stood just feet away from one of his captives as he was sentenced to life in prison plus one thousand years. in a chilling scene, castro appeared to turn around and look directly at michelle knight, the first woman he abducted. but she didn't waver. after years of imprisonment, she would not be silenced. >> never got shorted, days turned into nights, nights turned into days. years turned into eternity.

i knew nobody cared about me. he told me that my family didn't care. i spent 11 years in hell. now your hell is just beginning. i will overcome all this that happened, but you will face hell for eternity. from this moment on, i will not let you define me. >> i will let you define me. those were the words from a woman who was lured into skast stroh's house of horses in 2003. today prosecutors revealed new and horrifying details about how he abducted the three women. he lured ms. knight there by promising a puppy for her son. prosecutors showed how gruesome it was inside the torture chamber. here you can see pictures of a hundred feet of chains castro used to imprison his captives. the extent of the evidence was jaw-dropping, but castro himself shocked the courtroom when he stood up and gave riveting and

rambling testimony. >> what i'm trying to get at is these people are trying to paint me as a monster, and i'm not a monster. i'm sick. my sexual problems so bad that i'm compulsive. but eventually i married, i have four children. led a normal life. but i still practiced the art of touching myself and viewing pornography. i believe i am addicted to porn to the point that it really makes me impulsive. an i just don't realize that what i'm doing is wrong.

i know it's not an excuse. i'm not trying to make excuses here, because i know when i told david at sex crimes that -- forever, i'm not contesting it. i've been a musician for a long time, 25, 30 years, and to be a musician and to be a monster that they're trying to say that i am, i don't think i can handle that. i'm a happy person inside. i am not a violent predator that they're trying to make me look a monster. i'm not a monster. i'm a normal person. i am just sick. i have an addiction, just like an alcoholic has an addiction. alcoholics cannot control their addiction. that's why i couldn't control my addiction. >> well, he said that several times today, that he is not a monster. but today an ohio court decided

otherwise. joining me now is former child sex abuse and sex crimes prosecutor wendy murphy, and marc klaas, who is president of the kids klaas foundation that he formed after the murder and kidnap of his daughter. thanks to both of you for coming on tonight. marc, i honestly don't know how anyone could sit and watch this and not be both horrified and shocked by what we saw and heard today. but in another way i thought it was remarkable. it was life affirming when we heard from this young woman and the family members of the other two who lived in this hell for a decade as someone who lost a child, as someone who deals with families all the time. what went through your mind as you watched this today? >> well, chris, actually, i was physically shaken by his testimony because it really sent me back to a time about 17 years ago when i sat in a courtroom and listened to the killer of my daughter make his own excuses and justifications. and it just -- it's

mind-boggling that these guys are even given an opportunity to speak when they denied their victims that opportunity for so long. but i think michelle has shown a remarkable amount of grace and a remarkable amount of dignity throughout her ordeal, from the moment that she has been released until now she stood up very tall, and she has made us all very proud of her. >> and he talked about harmony in that home. wendy, this is a place with an alarm on the back door, a place where we saw 100 feet of chains, a place where there was a helmet for these young women to wear when he raped them. >> yeah. >> it was beyond. >> well, you know, i think about the dictionary. it's full of how many words. and that would be the last one i would come up with, harmony. but i so agree with marc that this was so repulsive, and not just repulsive because of his words and his behavior and his attitude, it was repulsive that

in the american legal system we have to tolerate that. because not only was it undignified, but his victim, one of his victims was sitting right there, and he turned to her and said not only did she consent to sex -- it's like a prison guard saying that rapes of prisoners is delightful. he said not only did she consent, but her family didn't even care about her. now this is what bothered me in addition, chris. there were two lawyers for two of the three victims sitting in that courtroom today, and there is a right that victims have by ohio law, a right to be treated with respect and dignity throughout the process. what were they there for if not to object right then and there, i object, shut him up. this is not respectful of this poor girl. i was so angry watching him speak. and when he did that, boy, if i had been in that courtroom, i'd probably be in jail for contempt.

>> and she actually spoke about how she could forgive castro, which i thought was remarkable, although she also said she couldn't forget. let me play a little more of her incredible statement today. >> i will live on. you will die a little every day. as you think about the 11 years and atrocities that you inflicted on us. what does god think of you hypocritecally going to church every sunday, coming home to torture us. penalty will be so much easier. you don't deserve that. you deserve to spend life in prison. i can forgive you, but i'll never forget. >> and marc, when you watch that and heard what had happened to her and these two other women, not to mention the child, the 6-year-old child, you do wonder what is punishment?

there is no punishment to me that fits this crime, is there? >> well, first of all, michelle's got a much greater capacity for forgiveness than i have ever had. there is no way that i could have even said the words that she said. there is no punishment bad enough for this guy. i think in an ideal world, he should be executed. but that would have meant a trial. it would have meant the women had to testify. they certainly didn't want to testify. they've been spared that. this is absolutely the best we can hope for. he should never be seen nor heard from again. >> i also thought -- go ahead. >> can i add one quick thing, chris? here is the thing that felt underdone to me as well. there were certainly plenty of charges. he is there for his life plus a thousand years. obviously that's the max plus, plus, plus. i thought what was underdone was the characterization of him targeting young women based on gender for sex-specific crimes, for gender-specific crimes. the enslavement of it all.

ten years, chains. why were we not hearing the prosecution call this a civil rights violation? there is a law in ohio that if you target people based on who they are in society, based on race, gender, ethnicity, whatever, that is a civil rights violation. this should have been framed as such. it also in my opinion should have been prosecuted at least a piece of it under the human trafficking law, which is brand-new in ohio as of 2010. why pass a law about human trafficking and not use it for this case? this is quintessential human trafficking. i don't understand it. i feel very frustrated that the human rights nature of this crime, the civil rights nature of this crime has been ignored by the people in positions of power in ohio. and they wanted to act heroic today. i did not see them as heroic. >> well, the one thing i did see as heroic was this young woman. >> yep. >> the statements from the family members. the people had to go up there

and speak, because obviously these family members were very much victims as well. from gina de jesus' cousin, she said to the castro family, we do not hold you accountable and pray you can one day be whole again. our family recognizes it is not for us to judge. that just literally, marc, took my breath away. and if it says one thing about this in the statements that all of these young women or their families made, i thought to myself, they do seem to be getting help. someone is helping them to cope with this. the resilience. i think the way it was put in the report by the psychiatrist who talked to them was fortitude, courage, grace. i would add resilience. remarkable. >> there is no question she is a remarkable young woman, that society's response has been remarkable. but that doesn't mean that their recovery is going to be any easier. i've known victims who have been held captive for only days, and it's taken them years, if not

decades to recover. very quickly, though i would like to read something i received in a note from michelle just a couple of weeks ago. and this is just a very small part of it. she said "just when the caterpillar thought the world was over, she became a butterfly." i am in awe of this young woman and her capacity for understanding and the depth of her reasoning. >> well, i couldn't agree with you more. she made a similar statement to police in thanking them. they have all been very thankful. and i should point out, marc klaas, and forget me if i get this wrong. she is the first recipient of the klaas family housing fund. what can you tell us than? >> sure. this is something we put together earlier this year. it was -- it's funded by a woman named tracy mclaughlin, who is a real estate professional where i live. and she wanted to do something to help the victims of kidnapping with their housing costs, realizing and understanding that when a child is kidnapped, that everything else falls out the window, and you can very quickly slide into

financial ruin. she wanted to be there to help them specifically with housing costs, because that's her profession. we decided that michelle would be an excellent choice for our first recipient. so that's exactly what we did. >> well, bravo, marc klaas. thank you for coming on. wendy murphy, thank you as well for being on the program tonight. >> you bet. coming up more on michelle knight's face-to-face moment, her strength, and a long road to recovery. >> after 11 years, i'm finally been heard, and it's liberating. >> and inside the house of horrors, new pictures from the torture chamber. graphic new details emerge. stay with us. hey linda! what are you guys doing? having some fiber! with new phillips' fiber good gummies. they're fruity delicious! just two gummies have 4 grams of fiber! to help support regularity! i want some...

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from hyundai. we're back. and my thanks to my colleague chris jansing for hosting the first segment. we continue now with the powerful statement today from michelle knight. she's the cleveland kidnapping victim who was held the longest, and perhaps suffered the worst physical abuse at the hands of ariel castro. >> ariel castro, i remember all the times that you came home talking about what everybody

else did wrong and acted like you wasn't doing the same thing. you said at least i didn't kill you. you took 11 years of my life away. and i have got it back. >> now she has her life back. despite all the torment she endured, her court statement today ended on a note of triumph. >> with the guidance of god, i will rebuild and help others who have suffered at the hands of others. writing this statement gave me the strength to be a stronger woman and know there is good. there is more good than evil. i know that there is a lot of people going through hard times, but we need to reach out a hand and hold them and let them know that they're being heard.

after 11 years, i'm finally being heard, and it's liberating. thank you all. i love you. god bless you. >> michelle knight is finally being heard and it's liberating. after these unimaginable horror, all three of these young women still face a long road to recovery. but today's sentencing may help them step forward to a new life. joining me now is former fbi profiler clint van zandt, and back here with me is chris jansing who knows the story better than anyone else. thank you both for joining me. thank you, clint, for joining me, and thank you for staying with me. let me go to you. michelle knight said, clint, she will overcome. she says that she is liberated. she even says there is more good in the world than evil. i mean, it was very inspiring after 11 years of what she went

through to hear her talk in that kind of positive tone. what does her appearance today tell you about her recovery so far and in the years to come? >> well, realize, al, she has only been three months. she has been held, as you indicate, 11 years. i mean, she had a decade stolen from her. she had her youth stolen from her. and that can never -- society, castro nobody can ever pay that back to her. so, you know, she looks good. she talks good. she is getting good counsel right now. but, al, we all know what post traumatic stress disorder is. and that's something, al, it comes creeping back, many times at night. you hear sounds, you sense smells, you taste something, and it takes you screaming back to one of these 3,600, 3,800 days

that she was held in this terrible thing. >> should we be concerned about flashbacks, things that can come up that would bring them back into the depth of the torment that they endured? >> that's just one of many things, al. we have to be looking for that. but how do you learn to trust somebody all over again? how do you learn to identify, in her case, a significant other, and then maybe share your life, share the intimate part of your life with that person. realize castro today said that was a house of harmony. i think chris jansing tagged it. that was a house of horrors. and that's what these women put up with for this long decade. >> chris, you know, he talked about -- clint talked about finding someone to share life with. and i was struck by michelle knight today talking about her friendship with gina, one of the other that were held captive. listen to her statement.

>> gina was my teammate. she never let me fall. i never let her fall. she nursed me back to health when i was dying from his abuse. my friendship with her is the only thing that was good out of this situation. we said we will some day make it out alive, and we did. >> i mean, you almost get teary-eyed watching this. how important will it be going forward for them to maintain that friendship and how unusual is this? >> we were watching this in the newsroom, and i don't think any of us had ever seen anything like the drama that unfolded in that courtroom which was riveting and heartbreaking. and i think in the word of michelle knight, in some ways so life affirming. the relationship that they formed, reverend, i think was so critical in getting them through this. they talked about it. michelle knight talked about how

gina nursed her back to health when ariel castro left her dying from his abuse. we know that they have had time together. no one understands what they have been through the way they understand it. and so they best can help each other to move forward. and it will be a long process. >> including how they adjust to the world outside, because they though where they're coming from. you know, clint, amanda berry's sister spoke on her behalf today. let me play this to you and ask a question. >> it is impossible to put into words how much it hurts. amanda is not here today. she is strong, beautiful inside and out and is doing better every day. she is not just my only sister, the best friend i have, the best person i know. she does not want to talk about these things. she has not talked about these even with me. >> now, clint, amanda has not even talked to her sister yet about the ordeal. she wasn't in court today. i mean, how does she move

forward from a day like today? and what does her not talking about and not being present if anything tell you? >> well, a number of things, al. sometimes you want to be in court. a victim wants to be in court because in this particular case castro had the power over them for ten years. now they see him disempowered. now the criminal justice system had the power. at least one of the victims wanted to be there, wanted to witness. others are just not ready. and it's just like when you come back from any type of traumatic event, you don't want to force somebody to talk about it. you want to let them talk about it, because what happens is that person, when they start talking, they'll tell you over and over and over again about the different incidents, and you have to coach the family that when this person's talking, they may want to talk a lot, and you have to listen. and you can say you said that already.

and al, just as you said, you can't say i understand, because none of us understand. >> you know, chris, elizabeth smartt, she was abducted for nine months when she was just 14 years old. she had this advice for the cleveland survivors. she said it will be it will be to not allow this man to ruin another second of their lives. he's stolen so much from them already. they don't need to relive everything that happened. nothing has occurred should ever stop them from fulfilling their dreams, from living a happy life, from moving forward. >> i was in the courtroom, reverend, when elizabeth smart first faced her captor. it was one of the most remarkable things i have ever seen. she was determined. she was forceful. she was clear. and in that way i think she was much in the way we saw michelle knight. i think she was inspirational. she is my hero. seeing her today, seeing her

face him down, hearing the words of these other women saying from this moment, this will no longer define me, saying, you know, that they are going to move on, that this is the last time that it's going to be about him, i just think that we look at these three women, and we have to draw some strength and some inspiration from them. >> and i'm sure that she didn't have any idea. but i think she inspired the whole nation. >> i couldn't agree more. >> who could complain what they have been through, seeing what they went through. and to see her stand there and say that, it almost makes you ashamed of even complaining or not trying to do your best, because she really was inspiring. chris jansing and clint van zandt, thank you both for your time tonight. coming up, inside the house of horrors, and inside the mind of a madman. that's next. i'm gonna give jimmy some honey maid teddy grahams to snack on.

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clocks. and they're wired in a makeshift manner to create a -- essentially an alarm system to the house. there was a contact switch at the back door that appeared that it would activate this alarm. that's a chain. it's in the room that amanda -- i'm sorry, gina de jesus and michelle knight shared. the pole is what the investigation has shown was used to restrain the women in the early stages of captivity. the investigation showed that on a limited number of times, that some of the survivors were allowed outside, they were instructed to wear a wig. >> three women were held captive in that house for more than ten years. today the world is a little closer to understanding the unimaginable suffering they endured.

joining me now are eugene o'donnell, professor of law, and police study at jon jay college of criminal justice, and scott taylor, investigative reporter with woio tv in cleveland, who got the first video from the backyard and the garage when this story broke. scott, let me go to you first. these are horrific details. but when someone first goes inside, it looks normal, right? >> it sure does, al. when you open up that door, and ariel castro knew what he was doing on that first floor. you would see toys. you would see a couch. you would see a lazy boy. but when you start to go into the dining room, that's when things started to get weird. he really turned that into a bedroom. if you tried to go upstairs, you couldn't do it. there was a porch swing he barricaded the upstairs down at the bottom of the staircase. he had curtains you.

walk up those stairs, that's when things got really spooky. there were a couple bedrooms, amanda and jocelyn, amanda's little girl stayed in one, the larger bedroom, and the window was actually barricaded believe it or not with a closet door. >> now, eugene, here is some of what we know about life inside that house. the women ate one meal a day. they were given plastic toilets that were emptied infrequently. the windows on their rooms were nailed shut, and investigators found about 100 pounds of chains and padlocks, 100 pounds. i mean, this is really, really some weird and troubling items. >> the fbi behavioral folks must be all over this, because there is so many indicators of cruelty. it's new dimensions really in cruelty and apparently disabling the free will of these women. he worked on all these things,

learned helplessness, just an elaborate set of device, evil devices to convince these women that they would be harmed. and also i think importantly it's not uncommon that people blame themselves. so he played very much on their self-blame. and that's why today is important. believe it or not, it's important today in a courtroom for a judge to say the victims are on this side and the bad guy is on this side. you'd be surprised, many people would be surprised how affirming that is to victims who say to themselves none of this would have hatched if i did a, b, c, or d. >> now, scott, you and the station that has been on this from the beginning, what stood out to you -- >> sure have. >> -- once you saw the what was in the house? what kind of really stood out the you and caught your attention? >> well, i think the elaborate tunnel system that he had through upstairs. eugene mentioned 100 pounds. you mentioned 100 pounds of

chains. about 99 feet. and he put little holes like little mouse holes where just that chain could go through. and we have never seen these chains before. there was some possibility of prosecutor mcginty pulling those chains out today. but the judge quickly said no, we're not going to do that. but they did, al, show those photos. and that's really stood out for me. now, i also know that there were metal stakes in the top of the bedroom floor screwed in so they could actually chain amanda or gina or michelle, and could only reach over to the bed, couldn't reach to a door. an we also know as you mention, no bathroom on that upper floor. they used those plastic toilets. and they weren't able to empty them if they misbehaved. he also punished them up in the attic when it was really hot out in the summer, and punished them down in the basement too, al, during the winter when it got really, really cold. >> now, talking about punishment, eugene.

the prosecutor spoke about the daily torture that ariel castro inflicted on the captives. listen to this. >> slapping them, punching them, stomping them on their stomachs. he dictated. he dictated what they ate, when they slept, when they could talk, when they could interact. he dictated when they could ogo to the bathroom. he barttered food. he gave them money and took it away. he made them clean to earn their keep. he provided no medical attention. >> i mean, it just gets uglier and uglier, eugene. >> he essentially taunted them in court and declared himself the victim. he is the person we should all feel sorry for. in that sense, it's not very different than some other criminal cases. but it's an extraordinary set of

manipulations. and, again, if there is any good part out of i, we've clearly established here today he is not deserving of any mercy. and the victims are these ladies. >> scott, the one good thing we can come away with from hearings today is the rescue. let me show you what the first police officer to go inside the home talked about going upstairs with a partner and finding michelle knight. listen to this. >> he hollered up for the police again. and then you hear some pitter-patter steps, someone running, but stopped. and when we shined the flash light, i remember i kind of shined the flashlight so whoever could see that we were the police. we later found out it was michelle knight as she literally launched herself into officer espada's arms.

legs, arms, just choking him. and she just kept repeating you saved us, you saved us. >> a touching story of rescue. but an absolute portrait of real, real mad situation. >> it sure was, al. and, you know, that was officer barb johnson. she went upstairs with officer anthony espada, and then officer johnson brought them all down. amanda, michelle and gina. stayed with them for five hours from the house to the hospital. and she told me when she got home, al, she sat down, and the tears just started to pour out. >> wow. >> eugene o'donnell and scott taylor, thank you both for your time tonight. just a remarkable story. and today justice finally prevailed for those three and that little girl. ariel castro sentenced to life plus more than a thousand years. we'll be right back. she let him plan the vacation.

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we're back with a big day in political history. it's august 1st. a lot happened on this day 25 years ago. it was 1988, and this was the number one song in the country.

♪ roll with it baby >> roll with it by steve wynn wynwood. and this was the top movie in the country 25 years ago. yes, it was a young tom cruise starring in "cocktail." there was bill cosby as dr. huxtable dancing into our living rooms every week on the number one show on tv. but something else happened on august 1st, 1988, something that would change the republican party forever. it's not what you're thinking. ronald reagan was near the end of his term. but somebody else's reign was just beginning. >> august 1st of 1988 is when this program began on a national

scale. ♪ happy anniversary, happy anniversary, happy anniversary, happy anniversary ♪ >> yes, yes. happy anniversary, rush limbaugh. 25 years ago today, he started to take down his party. so bring out the stogies, rush. congratulations. now you all know how i feel about rush. but 25 is 25. it is a remarkable feat. but it's how he has done it that is toxic and relentless and downright ugly criticism of the left. >> undeniable truth of life number 24, written back in 1987. feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women easier access to the mainstream of society. the democratic party does not want anybody -- they have a photo id, because that would have a very negative impact on cheating. i would be honored if the drive-by media headlined me all

day long. limbaugh: i hope obama fails. somebody's got to say it. >> nobody had to say it. but that's what really sets rush limbaugh apart. the personal attacks he launch on not just political figures, but their families too. >> we have a name for michelle, moochelle. mooch, mooch, moochelle obama. >> now hillary has reached a pinnacle, and all she is a secretary. obama says he is a christian, but where is the evidence? but in obama's america, the white kids now get beat up with the black kids cheering yay, right on, right on, right on. >> yep, that's the kind of talk rush is celebrating. so happy anniversary, rush. here is wishing you good health and hoping that in your next 25 years, be more fair, more inclusive, more big-hearted, more of what this great country is all about. joining me now is joe madison

and crystal ball. thank you both for being here. >> thank you, reverend. >> joe, like me, you don't agree anything rush says. but 25 years is a long time. how does he do it? >> well, from strictly professional, one, originality. every monday he has a very original way of presenting his propaganda, his ideology. and then by tuesday, wednesday, thursday, b level, d level, talk show personalities around the country are repeating what he says. number two, he has really great radio skills. radio is theater of the mind. and what you just heard was exactly what a good talk personality will do. the other thing that he does is that -- >> let me hold there it too, because i want to ask crystal to weigh in on something. i'm coming back to your other

points. you said something that touched something that i want to address crystal. the outrageous things. it's original, but it's outrageous. but he got into a lot of hot water for his attacks on sandra fluker last year. listen to this. >> what does it say about the college coed susan fluke who goes before a congressional committee and essentially says that she must be paid to have sex. what does that make her? it maybes her a slut, right? it makes her a prostitute. >> now, as outrageous as that was, hardly any republicans were willing to condemn him. here is how conservative george will explained it. >> it was depressing because what it indicates is that the republican leaders are afraid of rush limbaugh. they want to bomb iran, but they're afraid of rush limbaugh. >> i mean, crystal, why are

republicans so afraid to take rush on? >> well, as you're pointing out, even mitt romney at that time just said those weren't the words he would have chosen. he wouldn't have called her a prostitute, presumably, he would have called her a lady of the night or something else. >> how do you say slut nicely. >> in a nice way. exactly. that's exactly right. and rush has had so much power in the republican party, really, since the early '90s. he was very much a part of the newt gingrich revolution. and there is still a hangover there where people are afraid that if they cross rush and he turns against them and turns all of his listeners against them, there is going to be a price to be paid. i think that's a misconception at this point. i don't think that he wields the power that he used to, which is a very positive thing. at this point with his outrageous and horrible comments, he's really more of a benefit to the democratic party. >> absolutely. >> because people look at him and say this is what you're party is all about. >> but, joe, it's not just the

rank and file. the leaders of the party, the powerful of the party also seem to bow down to rush. president george h.w. bush invited him to the white house and made a show of carrying his bags to the lincoln bedroom for him. in 1992, ronald reagan wrote him a letter saying, quote, i don't mind that you have become the number one voice for conservatism in the country. this is not just rank and file. these are presidents. >> and they are presidents that unfortunately, as you know, appealed to those individuals who facts don't make any difference. i mean, it's the lowest level of thinkers when you really consider what rush does. he tells you. for example, remember, he used to say i have dittoheads. now what is a dittohead? a dittohead is somebody that says don't think for yourself, i'll think for you. and facts don't make -- that's

right. you just ditto what i say. and remember, he started off humorous. some people used to say he was maybe the jon stewart of the conservative movement. but what has happened is he has become mean-spirited. >> right. >> and not only did he attack individuals, adults, but when you start attacking children who can't defend themselves, whether it's clinton's daughter or the obama's children or -- and women. and let me tell you what is going to be the down faull. >> the first lady. i think he is raising a critical point, krystal. it is not being opinionated or conservative. >> right. >> or compassionate. it's the mean-spiritedness. it's the calling people names, it's defacing people's families, people that are not necessarily in the political arena. it's calling people the most de disparaging kind of names that no one calls ladies, children.

that's where i think people are. i have no problem he disagrees on issues. >> right. >> but why do people have to be these kind of names and their family not even be out of bounds to you. >> no, that's exactly right. he is offensive in every way you can be offensive. he is racism in the big sense in terms of whole classes of people. there is sexism in the big sense, and then there is the direct personal attacks, which are also unbelievable. and what we have seen for the first time over the past year since his attacks on sandra fluke are that advertisers are finally saying we don't want to be associated with this kind of talk in this kind of rhetoric. going back to something that joe was saying about why he has been successful in the dittoheads, i think he tells people the liberal elites out there, they think you're stupid. but i think you're right. and here is what we believe, and you're the ones that really know what's going on. that's sort of the theme behind his show. >> but let me tell you. >> let me tell you. that's exactly right.

>> because i know better than you. joe, let me ask you this quickly. are you beginning to see any pushback? i think krystal talked about some of the advertisers leaving. some of the more moderate republicans understanding the damage he is doing to their party? >> oh, yes. there is no if, and, butts about it. you are seeing it. you are seeing it, and that is happening. you used the term leaders. these are not leaders. that's the most important thing. because leaders, you don't see this in the democratic party. you don't see this with progressives. >>. no. >> they will take you on if you say something, they take me on if i say something. we tend to be here is the word, the phrase, critical thinkers. and that's what you really want from your constituents, people who question, they're critical thinkers, and they come to a conclusion. remember, 60% of the people voted for president obama. so you're not just talking about him. you're questioning the intelligence of the people who voted for the man.

>> and the difference is that in a democratic party, they will take you, me, anyone on. the right wing will take us on even if we didn't say it. they'll make it up. joe had son and krystal ball, thanks for your time. you can catch krystal on the cycle weekdays at 3:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. and krystal, congratulations on the birth of your son. >> thank you. >> it's great to see you back here at msnbc. >> it's nice to be back, thanks, rev. >> lowell is the name? >> lowell maxwell, yes. >> congratulations, lowell. we'll be right back.

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just because of an accident. smart kid. [ voice of dennis ] indeed. are you in good hands? it's time for "reply al." remember, friend or foe, i want to know. reverend al, why do you give rush limbaugh and the likes of him air time? because they have dominated a

lot of the conversation in this country. they were the ones that drove people to the polls in 2010. that gave us this do nothing congress. if they're not confronted, exposed and their points not exposed to be as wrong for america as they are, they will keep galvanizing people for lack of exposing what they really are all about. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. monster. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start with this. it's a ghastly story, more ghastly than most can imagine. three women kept captive in the dark for over a decade, again and again raped, chained to walls.