i'to guard their manhood with trnew depend shields and guards. the discreet protection that's just for guys. now, it's your turn. get my training tips at guardyourmanhood.com thanks for disrupting your sunday afternoon. i'm karen finney. an autopsy? what autopsy? get ready for the next round of social and cultural battles that continue to shrink the gop base. >> career politicians in both parties have let us down. >> i am a republican, proudly. >> the tea party is like a control wildfire that is now burning the republican party. >> you go back to the original greek. politics had two parts, poly, meaning many and ticks meaning

blood-sucking parasites. >> what do you say to those who say a possible trump candidacy is a joke? >> we need to abolish the irs. >> ted cruz born in canada, eligible to be born in the united states? >> blood-sucking parasites. >> if he was born in canada, perhaps not. >> the in-fighting is getting so severe, i don't see how you sustain that. >> i look at what's going on and it's very sad. >> just six months after their so-alled autopsy laid out a set of lessons learned from the 2012 election, the classic gop rhetoric about social issues and the need to lean into the ideological battle were front and center yesterday in iowa. here's the message. >> when you profess the things that we believe in, if you're a 501 c 3 and you're afraid of the

irs, go ahead and defy the irs. >> we saw people stand up in texas. >> we must challenge today's post-modern culture. >> pro-abortion activists chanted "hail satan." >> it's going to kill, potentially destroy the base of the country. >> you saw it from the last election. they didn't want to vote for president obama but at least he went out and talked to him, at least he went out and spoke about them. we didn't do that. we marginalized them. >> senator santorum wants the president to go out and talk to working people. what is he going to say? why a gop opposes an increase in the minimum wage. if you're a woman, forget about making your own decisions on just about anything and they want to take away your health care. let's face it, this is the future of the republican party. it's no different from the past. the grand old party is exactly that, old, white and pre-dom

nanly male. no matter how hard they try to say they're trying to reach out to minorities, they can't escape their base which means they probably can't win a national election. joining me now, msnbc political analyst joan walsh and former congressman, patrick murphy. thanks you guys. >> thanks for having us on. >> patrick, i know the gop, former ideological and i think even divided from when you were in congress. i want to read to you something from the economist that sized up the messages from the speakers in iowa. >> speakers could not seem to decide if they were fired up because conservatives are a besieged minority in a country already head for hell or livid because deep down america is mostly a conservative nation which has merely been tricked by president barack obama and the forces of godless leftism. that sure sounds like the same old message to me. >> it's exactly the same message, karen. i think the clown car is getting

even bigger as evidenced by this weekend in iowa. they don't know what they stand for. they're anti-president obama no matter what they do. and it's a shame because you know, as you mentioned before, they had an autopsy where they had a game plan of what to do to move forward to reach out to women, to reach out to minorities, to reach out to hispanic-americans. they've done the exact opposite time and time again. when you look at women's right to choose, karen as you know, in state after state, the republicans control most of the states in our country. >> right. >> they roll back a woman's constitutional right to privacy, time and time again. texas, north carolina, even my home state here in pennsylvania. >> yes. >> you know, for all that talk of expanding the bases, patrick was mentioning one of the things we saw is potentially a new litmus test saying you've got to be for traditional marriage or against marriage equality. that on top of some of the other

litmus tests and pledges that we've seen, again, with each one of these things, proving that you're a real republican right now to rhino, they continue to shrink their base and increase the number of people that don't fit into those boxes. >> we spent the week talking about reince priebus getting angry about cnn and nbc doing the hillary projects and insisting his candidates need to be taken seriously and treated fairly. that's what he wants to see in 2016. then we open in iowa the carnival comes to iowa and you have more crack pots, some of the same crack pots like donald trump and our friend rick santorum and you have new faces like steve king, a new face on the national scene anyway, maybe he's going to run.

so the contrast between what reince priebus is trying to say he wants, which is a fair look at these candidates. >> serious debate. >> and candidates themselves who are absolutely happy playing to the most extreme elements of the republican base and even bringing back, you know, the birther, donald trump. >> right. >> it's 2011 all over again. >> this is about 2016, right? when they are going to try to put a candidate on the national ticket. you don't make the rounds and go eat fried butter at the state fair. if you're not thinking down the road. here's the challenge. fox viewers alone are not going to win a national election. so how does that group on the stage that we were just listening to, how does that impact 2016? i'm thinking specifically on someone like senator ted cruz. i don't see how he takes that message to a national audience. >> right. but they are catering to the far right, trying to lock up that

far right, extreme right of the republican party which is the motivating base of the republicans, which is crucial for their republican primaries. and let's be clear, karen. i taught constitutional at westpoint. he's not eligible to be president, because he was born in canada which is not a sovereign nation of our country. >> that's a technicality. >> well, you know -- >> i'm kidding. >> i love how they pick -- they love the constitution like i do but they pick and choose what elements of it they want to follow. >> very true. >> that they want to believe in and fight for. >> very true. talking about senator cruz, he's been leading the charge against a lot of things, obamacare mostly. let's take a listen to something he said yesterday. >> there is no more important regulatory reform than we can do than to repeal every single word of boomcare. every single word of obamacare. >> we know that's not going to happen.

he is leaning into that message. the thing about cruz, that i find fascinating, you have a guy that's princeton, harvard educated. it seems like liberals are having a hard time trying to figure him out. he'll say these things that just seem crazy but he's not stupid. he's not just kind of wacky, talking off the top of his head. he does know, i think to some degree exactly what he's doing. >> i think sometimes that betrays our own snobbery. you'd have to be stupid to believe in these things, not talking about you and me, of course. >> no, no. >> seriously. >> yes. >> people can be very bright and believe these things that we think are very wrong. i think he's very clever. he's very dangerous. he's happy. he's kind of sarah palin but with a more sophisticated rhetoric and with more powerful brain, perhaps. but happy to say the meanest things, the nastiest things. happy to play the culture war, happy to jab at the president. i also, i don't know if you had a chance to look at his father's speech to the same group. >> yes. >> that was really kind of scary. he says that president obama is

leading us toward socialism, that he wants to eradicate god. is he steeped in a far right ideology that is very intolerant to most of the country and what most of the rest of the country believes. he's unapologetic about it. people who feel like that like him a lot. >> i think he's a savvy politician who is reading sort of the ground in terms of what's going on with the republican party, very well. i want to switch gears to health care because that was another big topic this morning, last week, it will be next week. reince priebus was on cnn this morning and he said that the republicans are for certain parts of obamacare. let's take a listen. >> you're picking out three things out of a bill that lists, you know, 5,000. >> right but they're the most important things to a lot of people. >> no, they're not. but the republicans had -- the republicans had many of those provisions in their bill. when we ran in november, we were talking about pre-existing

conditions, kids that were 26 on their parents plans. this isn't like some democratic exclusive or something. >> so patrick, duh, the president has been saying all along there are republican ideas in this bill, the ideas republicans used to support and now they don't. you have the republican study committee saying they're going to come out with an alternative replace plan. just back in april, cantor tried that and it was a disaster, another huge failure for boehner. part of the message you heard, that's like passing a piece of obamacare. how are they going to -- clearly they know they have to say something about health care. how are they going to do that in the fall when at the same time they're trying to shut the government down over boomcaobam >> the historic low in the nation's low for an approval rating. you look at ted cruz, you played

the clip a couple minutes ago when he said we have to repeal every page, everything of obamacare. really, senator? you want to make sure we continue to discriminate if someone has a pre-existing condition, cap people's health care choices that we want to all allow millions more to have health insurance so they don't die prematurely. it's hogwash what they're trying to do. people are waking up. we all know, they repealed obamacare in the house of representatives 40 times. >> 40 times. >> okay. give us your -- i hope they give their own view, i hope they give a replacement vehicle. they're not going to do it and it surely is not going to pass, karen. >> the other political reality in addition to the fact they don't seem to have the votes or control of their own caution cu their outside groups, actively campaigning against those proposals. >> what you said is absolutely

true. eric cantor saw the politics, saw it does look mean spirited that people like about obamacare that solved real problems and try to put a bill on the floor that would cherry pick a couple things they might solve. he could not get a vote on it, let alone the votes to pass it. the zeal in the party is to abolish, repeal obama, care, not to replace, not to do anything. >> to some degree i think this is chickens coming home to roost. this is a problem of their own making. they have been so strident in their anti-obamacare rhetoric, they have given themselves no room. we saw that a little bit this week in some of the town halls when people were trying to explain why you can't repeal obamacare. it seems they've talked themselves into a corner on this one. >> karen, you're absolutely right. the tea party has come home to roost in the republican party and they don't know what to do it.

when i was in congress and those town halls that we had in 2009, people yelling you're for death pannal panels. whoa, whoa, i'm not, i read every single page. reince priebus said today, talking about death panels which people have said that is not true, that say falsity. they don't care. they don't want to govern. they want to scare people to be against something and not for anything. >> you know, joan, so the other dynamic we're seeing, we saw congressman jim clyburn saying, absolutely, democrats are going to run on obamacare in 2014. we planned it this way. >> right. >> he pointed out that starting january 1 you've got more and more people in the system. and so obviously, again, this message of taking something away gets a lot harder to sell, doesn't it? >> right. every time that a new level of benefits kicks in, karen, more people like it. and whatever complaints people may have, you know some people's complaint is that it's not liberal enough.

whatever complaints there may be once you have something, you're seeing how it works, seeing it's not taking other things away, it becomes more possible and that is why, as patrick said. they have to resort to death panels. they can't tell the truth about the bill, now they're getting so desperate and sarah palin saying i told you so. >> we have to leave it there. thank you to joan walsh and patrick murphy. >> thanks. coming up, there's not much love coming from russia these days. can president obama and vladimir putin patch things up? >> if the president really wanted to hurt putin he would have said he was coming and then just stood him up. trust me, that hurts a lot more. . and you smiled. and threw it. and i decided i would never, ever leave it anywhere. because that wonderful, bouncy, roll-around thing... had made you play. and that... had made you smile. [ announcer ] beneful. play. it's good for you.

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obama's news conference on friday. it was the first time president obama had given his thoughts on the status of the relationship after having canceled his upcoming summit with vladimir putin anding aingsighing aing a edward snowden. >> it had to do with the fa kt that frankly on a whole range of issues where we think we can make progress, russia has not moved. we don't consider that strictly punitive. my hope is over time mr. putin and russia recognize that rather than a zero sum competition, in fact, if the two countries are working together that we can probably advance the betterment of both peoples. >> that is, of course, the hope. but a huffington post poll shows

americans remain weary. when asked about how they feel about the president's decision to cancel his meeting, 20% said they approve, 54% they disapprove. >> we seem to be more invested in this effort to create a relationship with russia that can be productive for both countries. more than putin is. >> this former kgb agent still has a sense of hostility to the west and to the united states. >> given the range of critical issues between the united states and russia, including the situation in syria, afghanistan and iran, the question is, can these two leaders who seemingly have nothing in common, can they kiss and make up? let's bring in kim martin, political science professor at columbia university's bernard college and steve clemons from the atlantic. thanks to you both. >> good to be with you.

>> professor, i want to start with you. we've had back and forth from putin and obama. some hostility coming from putin. it strikes me we might be missing there's a domestic issue in terms of his own domestic politics as to why he's showing a certain kind of face to the united states. >> there is. we have to keep in mind, rush wra is really not a unified government. there are facts that are relatively not transparent that are battling against each other, competing against each other, especially for their own economic well-being. when we're dealing with putin, he represents some someone trying to be a moderator and let his own people have individual power than simply representing the russian state. >> one of the things i thought was interesting in listening to president obama on friday and senator menendez, this message of talking about, you know, russia's future and where does putin want to take russia, which sounded like a little reminder that, hey, you're going to meet us down the road, particularly when we think about economic

issues. >> well, i think that's true. russia is an interesting nation, a member of the permanent five in the united nations. of course with many of the great global issues with oil and energy, dealing with iran, dealing with syria, of course, we have a count of love/hate relationship with russia. sometimes they're very much with us in throwing their shoulder behind what we are and other times they're taking us on. i think that the issue for us which we have got to deal with is the united states has been very inconsistent in how it's dealt with russia. we have our own again, off again. we had a courtship going on where obama was trying over a short period of time to try and charm russia. we saw after the boston bombing incident a real effort to revitalize u.s./russia relations. the bottom line is russia has been cantankerous and difficult through this entire period. so it's our side that has been difficult. there's one thing, karen, i should point out. chuck hagel, defense secretary chuck hagel, sent out a note he's having a good exchange with

the defense minister of russia. it shows there are different avenues in the relationship, some good and some bad. it's not all just one line between the presidents. >> right. to that point, professor, we saw secretaries kerry and hagel were meeting at their counterparts at about the same time the president was doing his press conference. they are saying the meeting was pretty productive. this is what we see in type l m diplomacy. there's one thing playing out in front of the cameras where behind the scenes there may be work going on. >> i think you're absolutely right. one of the most important things that happened this week is the offer made by saudi arabia that they were willing to buy a huge amount for russian armaments in exchange for russia cooperating more. >> i want to get both of your reaction to the criticism that from russia regarding lgbt rights in advance of the winter

olympics. we're talking about the safety of roughly 100,000 people a day. i think people forget that's not athletes, that's vendors, volunteers, spectators. you have one american athlete that's voted to defy the -- vowed to defy the law and says he's going to wear a gay pride pin. i want to get your reaction to that situation. >> i think we'll see lots of gay pride pins and sashes and banners. and we should. the russian government if it's true to its word will characterize those statements of expression as propaganda and could take legal action against them. i think the international olympic committee is making a major mistake by proceeding with the olympics under these rules. and people will not be safe. athletes will not be safe. more importantly, there are lots of gay russians that are out and trying to secure their rights in gay pride parades and whatnot. i think it will be a very important statement with those athletes coming out and make common cause with them. so it's really outrageous what's

going on. it's unfortunate, it's a real step back for kind of democracy that many hoped russia might become. >> i was reading about the situation for gays and lesbians in russia. some of what i saw was this sort of, they're still very much entrenched, this idea it's something you can change, something you can fix. and that sort of culturally this is something from the west. and so it struck me that some of this, the hard line language that we're hearing, again, going back to putin and sort of his own politics at home, this is not something he wants to deal with going into the olympics. >> well, the one thing that we might be able to see some movement on is if global civil society starts targeting the big banks and the big businesses in russia that are all involved in the sochi olympics. there's an awful lot of money on the line for private interests that have interconnections with the russian state. that's the way that change might happen rather than making it a

state boycott. >> steven, to you, again, part of the challenge is, it just seems like it is entrenched culturally. they're coming from a different tradition and different place than we are. obviously things like this will hopefully open some people's eyes. again, it strikes me that it is a longer road, i guess, to lgbt equality in russia than we might like. >> it's important to remember, like kim was just saying, russia's not monolithic. there's a very urbanized, liberal part of russia for which this is not an issue. if our own country, i was reading about baton rouge, louisiana, basically sending cops out to try and trap gays. kim's a member of the american political science association. i'm sure there's a lot of resistance about having meetings in louisiana because of this. we're all, in aa way, struggling with this issue all along. russia has taken a step back so far that it's really outrageous. i have many gay friends and

others, germans, french and others who regularly go to try and march in the gay pride parade in moscow. they've been beaten up and hammered down. you hope societies eventually change, by focusinging ining a spotlight on this. >> hopefully the olympics will bring tolerance to the picture. thank you so much professor kim martin and steve clemons. >> thank you, karen. rush limbaugh can't possibly believe oprah was a victim of racism. that absurdy is coming up next. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. i'm janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom. i never really thought i would make money doing what i love. [ robert ] we created legalzoom to help people start their business and launch their dreams. go to legalzoom.com today

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an expensive handbag telling oprah she couldn't afford it. and attempted to sehow a less expensive bag. the store has since apologized but rush limbaugh weighed in with his own theory. >> well, obviously she's a racist scum who thought you as a black person couldn't afford anything, certainly not that bag and she wanted you out of the store. that's what we're all to conclude. we do not know the salesperson based her judgment on the oprah's skin color. the sales person obviously thought the oprah couldn't afford the $38,100 bag. maybe it's because the oprah's fat. look, don't most people think that the fat and the obese are poor and stupid? isn't there that prejudice around out there? isn't there? >> oh, rush, that sounds like projection to me. maybe it's time you get back into therapy.

coming up, the code language conservatives use to fight voting rights. sounds like they dialed the clock back several decades. that's coming up. or more on car insurance. yep, everybody knows that. well, did you know some owls aren't that wise? don't forget i'm having brunch with meghan tomorrow. who? meghan, my coworker. who? seriously? you've met her like three times. who? (sighs) geico. fifteen minutes could save you...well, you know. just go to truecar.com, configure your car, and get connected... to a truecar certified dealer... for guaranteed savings. save time, save money, and never overpay. visit truecar.com i'll believe it when i--- [ both ] oooooh... [ female announcer ] as you get older, protein is an important part of staying active and strong.

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guts. glory. ram. listen to this. the fact that only one suit in the past ten years has been filed in georgia alleging denial or abridgement on the right to vote on account of race or color suggests that the people are taking rapid steps towards eradication of this once widely existing abuse. that sounds familiar, right? we've gotten rid of racial barriers to voting so we don't need the voting rights act. no, that's not from john roberts supreme court opinion overturning section 4, it actually is from a 1965 letter written by georgia senator herman t herm hermanledge.

what conservatives don't realize, the rhetoric on voting sounds like history repeating itself. there's no racist bias, it infringes on state sovereignty and just trying to talk about race stirs up harmful decision and discord. it raises concerns for many americans about the fact we might be moving backward instead of marching foort. as later this month, we commemorate the march on washington. thanks to you both for being here. >> great to be here. >> spencer, roberts majority opinion on the vra makes basically the same argument in the letter to m.l.k. he says voter registration and turnout numbers in the states

has racial disparity. >> one of the problems is that the chief justice ignores vote delusion and other types of discrimination. the population of latinos rose to 56% in population. incumbents manipulated rules to ensure they wouldn't control a majority of the county commission seats, right? that is a continuing problem. >> right. media matters took a look at what opponents were saying in 1965 and it really echos quite directly what we're hearing now from the right wing. let's just take a listen. >> i'm sorry. you shouldn't be able to prove who you are before you cast a ballot. >> the civil rights community want perpetual discrimination, reverse discrimination, if you will, to continue. for political raez ares. >> they're creating illegals into potential voters and then

they do not want photo i.d.s which will allow dead people to continue to vote. >> it's also about keeping the black population royaled, angry and told they're being discriminated against. >> the american people need to know the results are we have free and fair and accurate elections. >> he's playing pure politics, divide and conquer. good for the race hater, bad for america. >> there are enough people still alive that remember hearing this type of rhetoric the first time around. for a party that is supposedly reaching out, trying to bring more people in, you know, this sounds a lot like codes and dog whistles. conservatives just seem completely blind to the impact that has on the people who have actually heard this before. >> that's right. i think the people who matter most of all in this debate is not rush limbaugh, hannity, it's not those conservative talk show hosts and entertainers, it's really people like sensenbrenner in the house, cantor who will

decide whether or not this actually comes to a vote. he said back in june after the decision was handed down and also after he made a trip down to se salma, he thought he could work out a deal, a bipartisan deal. he's been talking to kirsten gillibrand. you imagine those folks probably will not vote for this, the reauthorization of the voting rights act or any more sort of preclearance because they feel like it would stigmatize their own backyard. >> here's the thing on that, though, here again, you've got this conundrum where you have all good work going on, believe everybody is sincere but then, again, they've got those dog whistle politics going on, stoking up their own base against what they say they're trying to work on. >> this is a catch 22, right?

which is we need bipartisan support, especially in the house to get this through. we can't frame this exclusively as an i.d. debate. if we do that, it will alienate the gop and moderates here. it's also not the real problem. the real problem that preclearance prevented was local discrimination. 85% of the objections were of courses to local changes. that's what we're concerned about. that's what's not being covered by the national media. that's what local voters do, they just don't have the resources to bring a lawsuit to block those types of things. we need to work in congress to ensure this isn't simply framed as an i.d. debate. >> i completely agree, i personally talk about that this is a constitutional right, we need to remind people about the bigger idea. you think about the hiss tru of how we got to this point, we're having a conversation about voter integrity and voter fraud. i did a pilgrimage with john

lewis. one of the things they talk about, it is when the cameras went down and people in the rest of the country were able to see what was going on, you know, kids getting their head bashed in. the southerners were we need a new message. lo and behold, now we're worried about fraud. >> there were a lot of places down south where there wasn't the violence. they were looking for violence to illustrate the problem. but the same problem of discrimination was going on back then as it's going on right now. this motion of states' rights, this nation of stoking racial hostility. that was a big claim against mlk and others. they're making the same claim against eric holder today. >> right. >> texas has taken their logic twisting to new levels. they say they weren't trying to disenfranchise people of color, just democrats. right? that makes it okay. here's the response to the justice department. doj's accusations of racial discrimination are baseless,

redistricting decisions were designed to increase the republican party's electoral prospects at the expense of the democrats. so i guess that makes it all okay? >> right. i guess -- the other logic is if democrats were in power they would do the same thing. you have a very activist justice department, a very activist attorney general in eric holder, in going after these states, even after the supreme court decision in trying to monitor what they're doing under section 3 of the voting rights act. this is something i think we're going to hear a lot about. i think some people assume this was doa because of the make-up of the house. you hear folks like gillibrand, trying to talk not just about the voter u.d. but in terms of letting the voting process be as open as possible. >> right. >> the irony here is that conservatives are the ones usually talking about rolling back your regulations and rolling back restrictions. >> right. >> right? >> now they want to do it more. >> in this case they want more.

if you frame it in that way to say let's open up the process, that might be a better way to frame it. if you look at the polls, most americans think voter i.d. laws are probably okay. >> part of the problem is that the way the debate about ideas have been framed, people don't realize the barriers that are then involved to getting to use this i.d. florida is the key state here. >> right. >> they've been in the news quite a bit. >> right. >> they're the late toast make moves against the supreme court's decision, rick scott is saying he's go inge to go back to this purge strategy, looking for noncitizens essentially by certain types of last names and so forth. you know, the last time he went down this road, they started with 182,000 names. >> right. >> they wound up with only 40 people actually have voted illegally. >> right. they only prosecuted one person who was a canadian. there are real costs to this in the sense that purging

legitimate voters is a problem. but also it slows down the lines for the rest of us when poll workers can't find the name of someone. you'll remember in 2012 florida had the longest lines in the country. the average was 45. it cost president obama 15,000 votes as a result of the long lines in florida. >> right. >> we see florida kind of at its old tricks as a result of section 5 of the voting rights act not being in play. >> the fight continues. thank you, both of you. >> thank you, karen. >> thank you. that phone in your pocket could be giving away all of your secrets. that's coming up. anything we purchase for the paper cottage goes on our ink card. so you can manage your business expenses and access them online instantly with the game changing app from ink. we didn't get into business to spend time managing receipts, that's why we have ink. we like being in business because we like being creative, we like interacting with people. so you have time to focus on the things you love. ink from chase.

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she's one of those ivy leaguers. >> princeton. >> yale, actually. >> my brothers went. >> how did you know i went to yale? >> i saw it on facebook or something. >> oh. >> so much for privacy. >> privacy. absolute myth, no such thing.

>> that was a scene from new movie "paranoia." it highlights an area we haven't talked much about in the wake of revelations about government spying in the nsa. government isn't the only one collecting data and tracking us. hackers, spammers and corporate marketers reach into our computer every single day. from license plate technology to the seemingly terms and conditions button we click, we're giving companies the right to sell our likes, dislikes, whereabouts, where you ate dinner last night. all data collected and sold. let's talk about the government and spying but let's disrupt that conversation a little bit by taking a lack at how corporate america has become interested in our daily lives. let's bring in our guest, a writer for the nation and author

of "the machine." . some companies buy and own our data, they can use it against other companies. what rights do we have with our data when companies are using it against other companies? >> as americans we really have very few privacy rights. as corporations seek new revenue streams, we're going to see more abuses. you know, earlier this summer, at&t announced a change to their privacy policy where they're not only going to be selling your browsing history to advertisers but also seeking to sell your location history. google with their streetcar, a fine they received earlier this year by accidentally amassing a large amount of wi-fi data, we're seeing constant changes within the industry and as

facial recognition software matures in the next year or two, we'll enter a whole new era. >> corporations use data for marketing but they have also used it against protest groups? >> they definitely use it against protesters, especially individuals who are critical of corporate policies and who take to the streets to protest them. many businesses have their own intelligence agencies built in. they keep data on individuals across the country. burger king, for example, in florida, spied on workers who were trying to get higher wages for tomato workers in the fields. and the vice president of that organization even wrote negative things on a website about them. they hired a company to spy on them. >> in that situation, what rights did those workers have? they're being spied on by the company. what rights do they have to get access to the information that was being collected? >> well, it's important to know

that the government can't search us -- we have a fourth amendment right to be free from illegal searches and seizures. when corporations do it, they have impunity to a certain extent. when they use it to disrupt organizations we have a problem in terms of how we run a democracy. it's big business doing our business or do we the people have a right to engage in first amendment protected activity? >> the president on friday when he was talking about the nsa and some of the things he was going to be doing, he consulted with silicon valley and he said he would continue to engage them. one of the things i thought was interesting, as politico pointed out, that could be a problem. does facebook or twitter really want to be dragged into a discussion on data collection when data collection is a huge part of what they do. >> that's exactly right. the president announced positive steps like adding a public

advocate to the fisa courts. right now it's a rubber stamp. having a dynamic is good for privacy. that being said, this board he announced is kind of a political measure that politicians take to punt an issue. we don't know exactly the composition of the board. i believe they want to release their report in a couple months. by then we'll be talking about a government shutdown or obamacare implementation. the enthusiasm will be zapped away. >> i thought was interesting in the political story, when you read the reaction from folks in the industry, they're saying there's two separate conversations. let's keep this. there's the government spying we do or data that we collect and then there's the corporate data that we collect. clearly their interests, even in engaging in this project is to maintain what they do on the business side, separate and apart from the kinds of privacy and transparency issues we're talking with regard to the government. >> that's right. you look at the last few privacy debates we've had on the federal

level in congress, the debate over one of the cybersecurity laws that critics said would enhance the government's ability to spy on people, look at the top companies that went to capitol hill to pass that legislation. you know, google, apple, facebook, they know they can receive a great amount of profit from these types of activities. so you have to look at industries in this as well. >> let's talk about hackers. what kind of danger do hackers pose to the average person? you see all the ads for identity theft, protect your identity online. what threat are we really looking at though? >> there's always been the threat of identity theft. people need to take certain precautions to make sure they don't give out too much personal information. the trend we've seen the last few years with the obama administration, hackers have been responsible for bringing a lot of these issues out into the

fore. >> thank you, very interesting stuff. and that does it for me. so thanks for joining us. don't go anywhere, though, "the ed show" is coming up next. hey, it's me, progressive insurance. you know, from our 4,000 television commercials. yep, there i am with flo. hoo-hoo! watch it! [chuckles] anyhoo, 3 million people switched to me last year, saving an average of $475. [sigh] it feels good to help people save... with great discounts like safe driver, multicar, and multipolicy. so call me today. you'll be glad you did. cannonbox! [splash!] the beach on your tv is much closer than it appears. seize the summer with up to 50% off hotels at travelocity.

good evening, americans and welcome to "the ed show." from new york, it's 5:00 eastern. let's get to work. ♪ we actually have a political party and a force in this country that thinks it's the right morally correct thing to do to have a vote and to take insurance away from the fellow americans. >> there is no more important regulatory reform that we can do than to repel every single word of obamacare. >> this is what tea party wants to know,