32 count racketeering indictment, including those 19 counts of murder. also, extortion, drug trafficking, and other charges. so they really had a lot to go over. now we are just waiting for the judge to read that verdict. >> i've got the checklist here, kristen. it's like a final exam in college with all the questions of guilty and not guilty on it for the charges against him. let's just remind everybody, cameras not allowed in the courtroom. so we have a producer stationed in there that you're talking back and forth to through your blackberry, correct? >> reporter: exactly. i've got my phone here. she just texted me that the judge has reminded everyone to remain orderly once that verdict is read. told everybody to remain silent. anyone that couldn't remain silent would be escorted out of the courtroom immediately. this has been a heated trial throughout. there were times when the defendant whitey bulger and some of the witnesses on the stand were shouting expletives back and forth at each other.

a lot of the victims' families have been here throughout. they've been very emotional as well. the judge just reminding everyone to remain silent in the courtroom as we wait for the verdict. >> talk about who's allowed to be in that courtroom. you've mentioned certain family members have been there. do we know who's inside today? >> reporter: yeah, inside today is a niece of whitey bulger. we're waiting for his brother, who's been here throughout, to be back in the whitey bulger family row. but a lot of the murder victims' families have been here as well. one man who i've been speaking to throughout whose sister was murdered allegedly by whitey bulger. so he's been here throughout. also, the son of one man who was murdered through all of this. so they've been here watching. then there were also ten seats available to the public and a lot -- oh, judge is reading the verdict right now, thomas. we're still waiting. i'm getting that word. stand by and we can have that for you. yeah, a lot of victims' families, the public watching.

today really a packed courtroom as that verdict is being read right now. >> kristen, you said there are ten seats that are allotted to the public. obviously something through a lottery that goes out to those ten individuals. >> reporter: yeah, the public has been able to line up in the mornings and to get in as well. ten seats, not a lot. there's been intense interest in this case. let me just check and see, actually. we've been watching twitter as well to see if i can get you some type of verdict and if anyone is hearing it in the control room as well, if they can let me know what the verdict is. >> again, for those just joining us, it's breaking news coverage right now of the whitey bulger trial. our kristen dahlgren is on the scene. this is after five days of deliberations that this boston jury has come back with a verdict, all in reference to the federal racketeering charges against a person known in boston and certainly around the country as being this infamous mob boss. he he faces life in prison if found guilty of these 19 counts of

murder and dozens of other charges. kristen, any word yet from our producer inside? >> reporter: yeah, still no word. the foreman is sitting forward in his chair, we're reading. a lot of tweets. any second now. the judge was looking over the verdict. again, a really long verdict form. had to look at each of those counts to make sure it was filled out properly. so the judge now looking through those. then we'll wait to hear it actually being read out in the courtroom. so a lot of anticipation here as we wait for that. and one reason this case has struck so much interest is that whitey bulger was on the run for quite a long time. on the eve of an indictment -- on count one now, we're hearing guilty. it looks like on count one, at least on one of those counts. let me look through my notes here. that is the racketeering conspiracy. so on racketeering conspiracy, count one, found guilty. count two, also one of those

counts is guilty. that's another racketeering substantive. it looks like that is the death of michael malano. at least on one of those murder counts, it looks like the jury found that he did cause the death of that victim. now, whitey bulger, 83 years old. as you're looking at this, the most he could get is a life sentence. really, if you're looking at any amount of time, it looks like whitey bulger will be spending the rest of his life in prison. so waiting as it comes in. it's coming in kind of shorthand here. we're having to look through it. >> kristen, let me give you a break. i'll recap here while you collect what you've got. count one has come in guilty. that's racketeering conspiracy. also, count two has come in as guilty. that's racketeering substantive offense. under that count of count two means there are subsections, which then the jury needs to go through and decide that if the government has proven its case,

as opposed to saying guilty or not guilty, the onus is being on proved or not proved. then the jury has to go through and decide that on all these subcounts against whitey bulger. if they had found him to be not guilty of count two of racketeering, they wouldn't have to go through that litany of other charges beneath that. so this is a large -- this will be a large ruling coming down against whitey bulger because they did come to a determination he was guilty on count two. legal analyst and lawyer karen desoto joins me right now. you're hearing this breaking news. again, whitey bulger found guilty of count one and count two. am i interpreting that right for everybody about count two and the fact that there are all these other issues that need to be proven or not proven by the government? >> yes, you are. with the racketeering, it gets a little tricky in these cases because you have to find that two of the incidents were within ten years. so there's some technicalities that i think has been a surprise

to everybody that he was found guilty on the racketeering and the extortion. it does get a little technical with the racketeering cases because the law is pretty extensive and complicated. however, on the murder and the killing, those are pretty, you know, simple in that regard. again, as was said, he's 83 years old. so even a ten-year sentence is going to be a life sentence for mr. bulger. >> just so i can explain to everybody, again, i have the list of charges in front of me. when we go underneath the count two itself, how it's broken down, it would be the murder of michael malano, the murder of al plumber, the murder of james o'toole, the conspiracy to murder james sosa, the murder of james sosa, murder of paul ma n magonagle. so this goes on and on. it's a true litany. the jury has to decide whether

the government has proved or not proved its case. if they came back on count two of racketeering in finding him guilty, does that mean that they would have automatically filled in the blanks, so to speak that, the government did prove the fact of that charge for all of the sub counts? >> yes, essentially that's what it means. as we've learned with a lot of these cases, the jury instructions are often very complicated. with these federal instructions -- and like i said, the racketeering, it gets very confusing for the jury. they try their best to go through. remember, there's 32 counts, 19 killings, extortion, money laundering, weapons charges. they try to make it as easy as possible for the jury. that's kind of tough when you have something as technical as this. >> with the amount of charges leveled against whitey bulger in five days that this jury deliberated, are you surprised with a five-day turn around, or does that sound like it was a substantial amount of time? >> no, i think they had him at

hello, thomas. there have been lifetime movies and books written on mr. bulger. it's no surprise. there was mountains of evidence, even with his associates in other cases and other trials. that actually was an issue ongoing in this trial with evidence against the others and the associates and how it was brought into this particular trial. but i don't think it's any surprise, especially to those in boston, given such an iconic monster, if you will. there's been so much information in movies and books on this particular person. so, you know, in principle, even though he's 83 years old and he's been on the run as an fbi informant, i think that this was an important case for the government to bring forward and finally bring closure to a lot of these people. there are 19 killings. we don't know if there's even more of those, but closure to the families and other people correlated to this case.

>> attorney karen desoto. thanks for your insight. want to go back to nbc's kristen dahlgren outside on the scene in boston. you heard karen say this jury had him at hello. what more insight can you give us about the counts leveled against him? >> reporter: yeah, so the first two counts, racketeering conspiracy and also racketeering substantive ochffense, guilty verdicts in those two. within the second one were all of these acts. that includes all the acts of murder. so there were some that were not proven and some that were proven. so racketeering act number one, which was conspiracy to murder members of the group, that was not proven as was the murder of michael malano. i misspoke earlier. that was not proven either. the murder of al plumber, not proven. then as we get into some of those later counts, if we get into count eight, the murder of paul magonagle, we have the jury

found that was proven. the murder of edward connors, proven. then moving on here, excuse me. we have the conspiracy to murder thomas king proven. the murder of thomas king, it looks like that one i don't have yet. but the murder of francis leonard, not proven. so again, a very lengthy trial. a lot for them to look at when you're looking at in the racketeering charge. there were multiple counts under that. so that's all still being read now in the courtroom. so the significant part of it is on those two counts, the racketeering counts. it looks like he was found guilty. they really only needed to prove two of those acts committed within ten years of each other in order to get that guilty. so there were multiple murders that were proven there. so we're continuing to get things in here. it looks like more guiltys found

as well as we go through this. so it looks like the reputed mob boss whitey bulger will be going to prison for the rest of his life, thomas. >> kristen, we're going to let you regroup and go back to your phone and check off what's proven and not proven. we have michael smerconish here, syndicated radio show host. you're here for another segment. lucky for me, i have you here now. as kristen was telling us, we have the racketeering conspiracy, racketeering substantive offense, both guilty on those counts. as we go through and look at what the information kristen is getting in, the conspiracy to murder members of the group, not proven. michael, not provb. al plumber, not proven. then we get into paul, thomas king. those were proven. that's just the tip of the iceberg with the amount of charges that they still have to go. >> what matters most to whitey

bulger, and this may found foolish because here's a guy going away for the rest of his life, was sort of the trial within the trial. thomas, he wanted something clearly understood, that he was not a snitch and that he did not kill women or order or participate in the killing of women. there were some outbursts in the course of this trial where individuals were offering testimony against him and it was like straight out of a movie. he would engage them. he would trash talk them. there were expletives going back and forth. it wasn't about 90% of that. it was about the issue of whether he cooperated with the feds and whether he participated in the killing of women. there's this mob code. you know, it's sort of okay if you're participating in a murder but not women and you can't be a snitch. >> well, it depends on if it's apples to apples. if you're taking out someone that's like you or in the same business as you. also, the snitch thing, i know that goes in deep for the mob code. you don't want to be seen as some kind of rat. meanwhile, he was, you know, off the radar for a very long time, being on the wanted list for so

long. it's very interesting, as kristen points out. certainly an infamous type of person in boston, but for the rest of the country to get to know who this character is and then to hear how this trial has gone down, it's been fascinating to hear about. cameras not being allowed into the courtroom just leaves us all to read those transcripts. you're absolutely right. the f-bombs were going back and forth. >> on those issues, right. most of this, you almost got the impression he was proud of it. like, yeah, that's me and that's what i've done. yes, i was the head of this crime family in boston and so forth. just don't say those other things about me because that's when you cross a line. it's hard for the rest of us to understand from the outside looking in, but it's truly like godfather part four, which they never made. >> again, our kristen dahlgren, thanks there to her for this. whitey bulger, the verdict is in. he is guilty of count one, racketeering conspiracy, guilty of count two, which is the racketeering with lesser

offenses involving the different murders that he was charged with being either in charge of or conspiracy of. karen desoto is still on the line for us. karen, as we were getting from kristen dahlgren about these other charges, whether or not they were proved or not proved by the government, it seems almost half and half what they were able to prof in terms of which murders they are considering him to be guilty of as opposed to the ones they're not. >> right, exactly. i mean, with the case of 72 witnesses, 840 exhibits, and there was a lot of back and forth. obviously, other people have gone in for the murders correlated to this case. one of the ongoing arguments was, you know, the evidence from the other trials, whether that was going to be allowed into this trial. obviously, when you have so many -- when you have 19 killings, obviously the prosecutors did a great job with

doing as much as they could. you know what? as far as the jury, really, great job that they were able to, you know, go through all of these cases, the 19 killings, and actually have a clear head enough to say, you know what, there wasn't enough evidence in one, but there was enough in the others, especially in a case where you have so many mountains of evidence and a lot of attorneys say, well, you know, if you have evidence against one, then they're going to find you guilty on everything. you know, as we can see from this case, jurors do take the case seriously, and they went through the evidence. it's not surprising that one or two murders are going to get off in a case like this. normally, thomas, you never have a case with 19 murders. this is really a serial killer. >> karen, were you able to hear michael smerconish and his observation about the fact that whitey bulger was a guy that didn't want to be seen as a snitch and didn't want to be seen as someone who killed women, but the rest of it was

all okay. >> well, obviously, anyone who's committed 19 murders isn't, you know, dealing with -- you have some mental issues there as well. but, you know, the fact that you murdered 19 people and you're worried about honor, that's not surprising. when you have multiple killings like this, you're not going to be dealing with people who have a full deck. it's important for them to get those issues across at the end of the day as long as they get -- go to prison and they're not in charge of a crime family from far away or operating it from prison. i mean, that's a win. so no, that's not surprising. you're not dealing with an every day person. and it is intriguing. the information that was brought out by these witnesses, i mean, it really was like listening to -- watching "the sopranos" and all of those deep, dark things everyone is interested

in. i'm sure if there were cameras in the courtroom, if they were allowed in federal court, you would -- people would be, you know, fascinated with the type of life that this man has led. >> all right. well, again, if you're just joining us, we've been following the breaking news out of boston. the verdict is back in the federal trial against whitey bulger. the jury has found him guilty of the two largest counts. count one, racketeering conspiracy. count two, racketeering substantive offense. we're going to be back with much more after this. alón rojo, is kicking off fun and fitness on and off the field, with the help of soccer stars. these free clinics, help kids gain confidence in their game, and learn how important it is to get moving every day. it's part of our goal to inspire more than 3 million people, to re-discover the joy of being active this summer. see the difference all of us can make. together.

more on the breaking news out of boston. the jury is back in the federal trial against alleged mob boss whitey bulger. now he has been found guilty on different conspiracy and racketeering charges. let's go to our kristen dahlgren. she's outside the courthouse there in boston.

kristen, what more have you put together? >> reporter: yeah, hi, thomas. among those racketeering charges were 19 separate acts of murder. according to the jury, it was proven that he committed or was co-conspirator in 11 of those killings. whitey bulger found responsible for 11 of the 19 killings that he was accused of. that's part of those racketeering charges. now, in the courtroom right now, the jury has left. the judge has instructed them that they don't need to speak. the judge earlier today was trying to make the decision on when she would release the names of those jurors. so we're still waiting for that. it's expected then that the victims' families will file out of the courtroom and courthouse and will address the media and then we should hear from the defense attorneys and then finally the u.s. attorney in this case will speak, the prosecutors who actually tried the case will not speak until after the sentencing. that sentencing, the judge says,

is going to begin on november 13th. it's expected that could take several days. sometime in mid-november we'll we'll find out exactly how long whitey bulger will spend in prison. >> kristen dahlgren outside the boston courthouse, thank you very much. i want to bring in a journalist from "the boston globe." it's good to have you with us. mike, we have the proof, the conviction from this jury on the 11 different killings. the gangland crimes of whitey bulger. he's going to spend the rest of his life in jail. he's 83 years old. are you surprised at how quickly the jury came back, five days? >> not really. this was a very sophisticated, sweeping racketeering indictment. you had 33 acts, criminal acts. it was complicated. they went through all these -- i think one by one in terms of the violations. what was interesting was that, you know, he was convicted of 11 of 19 murders. my interesting point was

obviously the jury may have had a problem believing one of the key witnesses in this case, perhaps a hitman who testified about a number of murders, murders he committed, and the jury felt that bulger's involvement in those murders was not proven. on the other hand, there was some key victories for the prosecution. the waterfront murder in south boston in 1982 of michael donah donahue. a couple other murders, the murder of roger wheeler in oklahoma. the jury took a long time. i think people expected this to come back a lot quicker. they went through all kinds of deliberations on each of the charges. so i think they took their time and did it very deliberately. >> again, this was a two-month trial. mike, do you agree with the assessment? as federal prosecutors portrayed whitey bulger during this time as a cold-blooded guy that didn't think twice about taking you out, the one thing that bulger did not want to be seen as during this trial was a snitch or somebody that went after women.

>> well, i think the prosecution read a whole detailed file on his fbi informant days and loaded a lot of evidence that suggested that he provide information to the fbi on a variety of issues and other underworld activities. i also think they found him guilty of the murder of debra hussie. the only thing they didn't find him guilty in the killing of a woman was debra davis. no finding in that murder. it was alleged he had strangled davis. that was interesting the jury separated those two. they found him guilty of strangling one but not the other. we'd love to hear from the jury. unfortunately, we probably won't get their names for another week. it was interesting the way the jury went separate ways on that. >> again, james whitey bulger convicted today on charges against him in conspiracy and racketeering. we're waiting to find out exactly what the details will be for sentencing. we'll be back with much more right after this. is like hammering.

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"the news nation" also following two developing stories. first, in the past hour, attorney general eric holder unveiled major changes in federal policy concerning drug offenses. in an effort to relieve overcrowding in federal prisons, the attorney general announced prosecutors will no longer seek what he called draconian mandatory minimum sentences for many low-level, nonviolent drug offenders. >> it's clear as we come together today that too many americans go to too many prisons for far too long and for no truly good law enforcement reason. it's clear -- [ applause ] >> also today, a federal judge ruled new york city's controversial stop and frisk program violents the constitutional rights of minorities by conducting stops in a racially discriminatory manner. the judge called for a federal monitor to oversee reforms.

mayor michael bloomberg reacted minutes ago taking aim at the judge. >> she conveyed a disturbing disregard for the good intentions of our police officers who form the most diverse police department in the country and who put their lives on the line for us every single day. throughout the case, we didn't believe that we were getting a fair trial. this decision confirms that suspicion. we'll be presenting evidence of that unfairness to the appeals court. >> i want to bring in syndicated columnist earl hutchinson. great to have you here. i want to start with the attorney general. obviously holder's announcement is big news when it comes to changing policies for low-level, nonviolent drug offenders. i want to play more of what he had to say in this announcement 37 . >> let's be honest. some of the enforcement priorities we have set have had a destabilizing effect on particularly community, largely

poor and of color. and applied inappropriately, they are ultimately counterproductive. >> earl, what's your reaction to this, and how do you think this is going to go over as the attorney general tries to move forward with this? >> well, i think it was a major announcement. i think it will be greeted very, very well among civil rights advocates, civil libertarians, and of course among african-americans and of course hispanic leaders. one of the -- two big things about this. it's been building for a while. the administration has made it clear going back in time that there are disparities in terms of how the drug laws are being enforced and more particularly how the sentencing is playing out. i mean, we've seen the statistics over and over again. a disproportionate number of african-americans and hispanics, crack cocaine, marijuana, all the drugs. young whites? no. you've seen that. in 2010, equalized crack cocaine versus powder cocaine in terms of the sentencing on that.

so there were hints all along from the obama administration and attorney general eric holder they were going to make some changes. i think it will play very well because it really is, when you strip everything away, it's an issue as the attorney general said, an issue of fairness. i think this, certainly, many people are mindful of. >> so you say there have been hinting placed all along from the administration or from the a.g. should people not be scratching their head with the question of why is the attorney general doing this now? >> no, no. because going back three years, essentially when they gave a mandate to congress, the obama administration and attorney general holder, let's change the laws, let's modify the laws. they've also talked about marijuana, how we deal with those and enforce those laws. and also other drugs too. i think the overriding concern on the part of the attorney general and of course president obama is this. you have so many african-americans, especially

young african-american males, so many young hispanic males that are essentially in prison for long terms under the mandatory sentencing laws with no recourse. they feel, and correctly so, it's just simply not fair. >> let's look at the ruling that came out today from the federal judge here in new york talking about the city's stop and frisk program, that it violates the constitutional rights of new york city residents. no comment so far from the white house on this. however, the naacp president ben jealous has reacted by saying this is a ground-breaking victory. in this federal judge's decision, it recognized what the naacp has been saying all along for years, that the racial profiling tactic of stop and frisk has no play in our enlightened society. do you think that -- now, again, this has been going in new york city for a very long time. we heard the mayor come out and give his reaction, that he thinks that the judge has overreached. do you think that this will get the proper oversight?

it seems as if the judge wants to put on this now. they can look at this program and see exactly what it's doing. >> i think the judge wisely understood one thing. it's not going to be greeted by the mayor and among police officials with any joy. no one is going to be popping the champagne cork. i think that's why she put in we need to monitor. but i think there's a bigger issue here. mayor bloomberg -- and i have to be honest -- and new york police officials and other police officials that applaud stob and frisk are not dealing with. they've never given an answer to one burning question. you have 90% of those that have been stopped in new york city -- by the way, in other cities too. it's not just new york. but especially new york. overwhelmingly, young hispanics, overwhelmingly young african-americans, and yet, there has been no charges, no criminal allegations, or activities or even suspicion. in other words, they've been released. how do you justify that?

if, in fact, you were really stopping crime through stop and frisk, i would think the numbers would be much greater. the fact is, most people that are stopped, most people that are frisked, most people that are violated, they are charged with nothing. mayor bloomberg, you have a responsibility in your appeal to address that question. >> so what would you say to those on the other side that say this type of law and intimidation law is actually working? the numbers support it in that respect. because people know that it exists. it intimidates people from that behavior so they don't do it. >> no, it doesn't work that way. the fact of the matter is, one thing that mr. bloomberg and new york police officials have said over and over again to support stop and frisk t goes like this. crime is down, murders are down, violent crime and all things that are essentially major crimes in the city are down. they attribute it to stop and frisk. here's the problem with that. crime is down in all major cities across the country. murders are down in all major cities across the country. the fbi has documented that the

last few years. so you cannot make a direct connection between one and the other. thomas, the dots are just not connecting here. i'm sorry. it's not working that way. >> earl hutchinson, as always, great to see you. thank you for your time. >> thank you. still ahead, new information on how officials tracked down the san diego man who kidnapped his friend's 16-year-old daughter. >> we seen the amber alert. i seen the girl's face on television. i told my wife, i said, that's the girl we seen on the mountain. >> earlier today, i had a chance to speak with the people who helped police rescue the girl. why they say they knew something was wrong. you need to see it, hear it for yourself. we're back after this. this digiorno dinner from walmart is less than $2.30 a serving. replacing one pizza dinner out a week saves your family of 4 over $1,200 a year. save money. live better. walmart. ♪ every now and then i get a little bit hungry ♪ ♪ and there's nothing good around ♪ ♪ turn around barry

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so we're learning much more now about the moments leading up to hanna anderson's abduction in an interview with a local station. the san diego sheriff said the teen had no idea her mom and brother had been killed before she was taken.

hann hannah's father is expected to speak out today. brett anderson was reunited with his daughter yesterday, one day after she was rescued by the fbi. authorities say she was being held under duress by her alleged abductor. meanwhile, earlier today i had the opportunity to speak with the four horseback riders who tipped off authorities about spotting hannah and her captor. they said right away they noticed something was off with this pair. >> they sure didn't fit in idaho. he was carrying a cat. there was just a lot of things that was out of place. so when we seen the amber alert, i seen the girl's face on television, i told my wife, i said, that's the girl we seen on the mountain. >> amazing those four people spotted them. our luke russert is in san diego, which is hannah's hometown. what more are we learning about hannah anderson and being back with her father? because there was word that her dad may speak out today. >> reporter: yeah, he's going to have that press conference at

2:30 pacific time, thomas. something that the family had feared was that hannah would not be aware of what happened to her mother or brother. the sheriff here, bill gordon, in an interview with a local station confirmed she was unaware that her mother and brother were actually killed in that fire, presumably set by mr. dimaggio. that is something that the family has been quite worried about. obviously, she went through a traumatic experience being kidnapped and driven on a week-long hostage situation up to idaho, but now that she's coming back to a society where her mom is dead, her brother is dead, thankfully she is alive, but it now becomes a story, thomas, of survival. that is something that her family, while they are very happy she was found yesterday, they've already sort of made that transition into we now need to make sure that this place, this environment is the best it possibly can be for hannah. she now adds her name to the list of the people like

elizabeth smart, these folks who sort of grow up in the media spotlight because of something awful and traumatic that happened to them. that's something the family is really trying to prepare for now in san diego. >> as you point out, a press conference expected at 2:30 pacific. luke, thank you. still ahead, presidential hopefuls campaigning in iowa like it's 2016. several very big name republicans are already laying out the ground work. but the potential democratic contenders are not far behind. [ female announcer ] first kid you ready? [ female announcer ] by their second kid, every mom is an expert and more likely to choose luvs than first time moms. live, learn, & get luvs.

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over again. i mean, i come out here feeling good because it was no finding. if it was a not guilty, it would have been a positive on the prosecution end. they did a good job. both sides did a good job. i have no complaints there. >> [ inaudible ]. >> through what i heard through this whole case, i don't. you know, i can't stand him for my personal run-in with him years ago. i can't stand him, but i personally don't think -- i really don't. but that's my personal opinion through the case and what i've heard through testimony and from

witnesses. >> do you think he was there? >> i think he was there, had part. i don't think he would have allowed it, being 27.5 feet away from his brother billy bulger's house. if anything was to follow up on steve flemming's part, he probably would have killed him. >> so you think flemming killed your sister? >> oh, definitely, definitely. >> we've been listening to steven davis. he is the brother of one of whitey bulger's alleged victims. we still say alleged here because there was apparently no finding in the murder of this man's sister. however, whitey bulger was found guilty of racketeering and conspiracy and different murder charges. some were proven, some were not proven. steven davis' sister's murder, there was no finding from this jury. all right. so we switch gears now and focus our attention on politics and ask you the question, is there such a thing as being too early to the party? not if you ask this very

forward-thinking group of republican presidential hopefuls over the weekend in iowa, where it looked and sounded a lot like primary time. >> i have a lot of faith still in the people of iowa in 2016 and beyond to use their good judgment. >> there is no more important regulatory reform that we can do than to repeal every single word of obama care. >> obama should have been beaten. hillary's going to be tougher to beat. >> so hillary clinton was not in iowa, but there were plenty of people who hope she will be soon enough, including missouri senator claire mccaskill. >> we have to have millions of people engaged and ready for what will be a pivotal race in america's history. and that is about getting everyone excited now about what i hope will be that moment in

2017 when we all get to say madam president to hillary clinton. [ applause ] >> so vice president joe biden reportedly spent his weekend in the hamptons, but he did have iowa on the brain because aides are confirming he's headed to the state next month for tom harkin's an july steak fry. all this 2016 coverage now is very, very early, isn't it, guys? but let's start out with it seems like we're seeing the same cast in iowa singing the same political song but expecting a different outcome. i want to the start with rick santorum, who has recently in the last couple weeks on "meet the press," has not discounted he might run again for president. he was there in iowa. take a look at what he had to say. >> my challenge to the republican party is to take a page out of our book and start putting forth an agenda of ideas

to raise up folks who want to vote for us. you saw it for the last election. they didn't want to vote for president obama. at least he went out and talked to them. at least he went out and spoke about them. we didn't do that. we marginalized them. >> so chris, do you think he's on to something there? i mean, he gets the fact that the voters were marginalized, but is there enough within the republican party platform that's a wide, open-arm embrace? >> the idea of the republican party kind of taking more of a populous tack, if you will, yeah, there's a strategic value to that. the problem the republican party has, more specifically rick santorum, is he's never going to be the messenger of that. 2016 is going to be a very different race than it was in 2012. you had an incredibly weak republican field. you're going to have much more serious candidates. what's interesting about the folks that are going to iowa

now, you know, you have trump, santorum, senator cruz. i hate to say it, the right-wing version of the three stooges. this is not going to play well if they become the voices on the far right and move candidates that are more viable folks like christie, you know, to compete with them. that's where they get in trouble. that's what happened last time. it seems like, you know, history is going to repeat itself. >> let's talk more about ted cruz. the daily beast has an article up "cruzzing to victory here." they laughed at his jokes, hissed at his political opponents and rose to their feet for his applause lines. is he somebody who's a gathering storm? meanwhile, there still needs to be the vetting of figuring out whether the canadian-born cruz can run for president because he was born to an american citizen. >> well, absolutely. he's starting to drive some of the conversation. you know, we've all focused a

lot on senator rubio for the past couple of months. you've seen senator cruz kind of come from behind and really have a message that plays well in iowa and across to some of the real different conservative base. he's starting to drum that up to try to create a national movement, and it will kind of -- time will only tell whether or not he's able to kind of get those specific pockets. >> all right. so chris, what about fatigue? i mean, is it too early to consider that fatigue is a real and concerning syndrome? and that people are going to get -- they're going to scratch their heads. i mean, iowa is used to being courted. io iowans are used to seeing tv ads and presidential contenders come to their state and show up courting them. but for everybody else, is it going to be too much too soon? >> well, forget about 2016. i'm really excited about 2020. that's going to be a presidential race to watch. yeah, i mean, fatigue is a

serious problem. people who are in the business, who love politics, like all of us, are clearly interested in talking about this. to the average person, you know, they're not really focused on 2016 presidential politics. the real story of what's going on here is the organizational and financial difficulties or obstacles that candidates face to run a presidential election today. what's driving this is not simply, you know, ego -- clearly that's part of it. what's really driving this is they need so much money. they need so many resources to be able to compete that it's driving the date of when you're running to a point where it's almost ridiculous. that's what's happening right now. >> anna, do you agree? >> absolutely. you're starting to see -- i can't even believe we're talking about 2016 right now. >> well, he wants to talk 2020. >> well, certainly, i think one of the things you're also seeing is people like claire mccaskill who came out very early in front for obama when he ran the first time, are trying to get on the

right side of clinton. you know, if hillary clinton does decide to run, so she's definitely kind of positioning herself. you're seeing maybe a rick santorum try to position himself to try to drive that message or be a surrogate if he doesn't run for one of the republican candidates. >> all right, guys. great to have you on. i'm sorry if we're fatiguing so soon. chris, i love the idea that you're already looking ahead to 2020. we'll have lots and lots of time to talk about it. ann anna, chris, thanks. still ahead, a story that's raised a lot of questions when it comes to medical ethics. a woman whose cells were generated without permission have made advancements in science. [announcer] there's nog the goodness of the latest from beneful baked delights. new heartfuls are made with real bacon... ...and oven-baked to crisp perfection. new heartfuls from beneful baked delights. we replaced people with a machine.r,

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all right, everybody. that's going to do it for this edition of "news nation." tomorrow we're going to have that story on the medical breakthrough th

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big news from the courts today. whitey bulger has been found guilty. he now faces life behind bars. i'm krystal ball. crime fighting tool or criminal act? a monumental ruling about new york's controversial stop and frisk policy, a federal court throws it out while mayor bloomberg throws his political weight behind it. the nation's top attorney is delivering his own verdict. the war on drugs is a failure. >> and i'm abby huntsman. all of that plus an unsolved mystery solved, sort of. that missing southern california teen has finally been found, but the search for answers is far from over. we're on the trail right now in "the cycle." we start with a guilty verdict against james whitey