say, well, now wait a second. the commissioner said one thing. the monitor said another and the i.g. said another. by that time you're dead and i'd like to see you go to and expla family why their son or husband or father is not coming home at night. >> wow. >> well that -- >> good morning. >> it's tuesday, august 13th. >> welcome to "morning joe." >> we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. chairman of deutsch incorporated, donny deutsch, and in washington, pulitzer-prize winning columnist and associate editor of the "washington post" and analyst eugene robinson. >> you look at the front page of the "new york times," michael bloomberg not a happy man. we're going to be talking about that. also, mike barnicle here to talk about whitey bulger and the conviction in boston. wow, that's really something too. willie geist, you know, there are times, there are moments,

there are cracks in time in history where something terrible happens, historically, and there's really no great explanation and, of course, you and i always talk about this. >> yeah. >> gettysburg. >> what -- >> i just know you're up to something. >> the best part of the show, i have no idea where we're going now. i'm just waiting. >> no no, no. willie and i talk, gettysburg, he gets the word in and he says to one of his generals, use your division. he goes, sir, i have no division. >> god. >> and lee figures out, all is lost because of pickett's charge and he says, it is my fault. it's all my fault. that's all he had. mack na mara, secretary of defense, obviously, fog of war on vietnam. >> yes. >> we were wrong. >> yes. >> just write it down in the history books. >> that's right. >> simple, painful, searing truth. yesterday, we've got him on today, this is history as well.

ben smith. >> oh. >> asks anthony weiner -- >> i thought you were talking about stop and frisk. >> why didn't you use snap chat? willie geist? how was that wind up, baby. >> ben smith interviewing anthony weiner on stage. >> best question. what was the answer. >> why didn't you use snap chat? he says i don't have an answer for you. >> if you were like me, i went right back it to general lee. >> it's a little much. >> it is all my fault. right? >> and ben smith, when the questioning got -- >> gene, do you not like history? >> exhausting. >> do you not like history. you do not realize that we are living through -- >> i need another coffee. >> through serious times with this weiner-gate. >> one of those moments, it's one of those fulcrums on which everything turns. >> it is what peter jennings called 1968, a crack in time, willie geist. and we are right in the middle of it. >> anthony weiner finally got sick of ben's good and persistent questions, and said,

shouldn't you go back -- >> can't even take yourself serious. >> go and talk about cats or whatever you do at buzzfeed. >> pulse on technology. >> on cats. >> okay. >> so this whitey guy, did he ever threaten to kill you after a column? >> oh, wow. >> no, not really. >> give us your best whitey story. >> wow. >> there are no good whitey stories. >> of course not. >> i mean, you know, the best bad -- >> the best story is actually donny and i were talking about it earlier, is the whitey bulger stuff is murderous, it's vil nous, it's creepy and sick but the story of the three bulger brothers is the much better of the story. i mean, bill bulger was president of the massachusetts state senate, went on it to become president of the university of massachusetts. by all accounts did a fairly good job running the umass system. >> a lot of people thought all through his tenure, even though he's one of the most respected,

he may know where his brother was. >> a lot of people thought that but he didn't. >> the larger point the complicity of the federal government in whitey bulger being allowed to run amuck for 20 years. my brother was a boston police officer, homicide cop. my cousin was an fbi agent. they both would always run into obstacles when they were close to getting something on whitey bulger. whether it was drug trafficking, whether it was murder, whatever it was, something would happen. he would be told something. whitey bulger would be told something and he would disappear in terms of being able to be captured. >> why was that? >> the fbi was complicit in his career for over 20 years. a series of agents who none of them were on trial, no assistant u.s. attorney, from washington and the justice department was on trial. the prosecutors did a terrific job here and the trial couldn't have gone on for eight or nine months, we all knew that, but there are a lot of people who were complicit who obstructed

justice, the justice of getting to whitey bulger. >> and mika, check out mike -- >> will we ever know those stories? will we ever know who those agents were and who was complicit and how high up it went? >> gene, we do know, and there are reporters like jerry o'neill, dick lear, kevin cull lin, shelly murphy all from "the globe" who did a series on the complicity of the fbi nearly 20 years ago, 10 or 15 years ago, certainly, you know, the -- a lot of the massachusetts state police detectives, former boston police detectives and some fbi agents, they know who the corrupt agents were. >> right. >> they know who the u.s. attorneys were who turned a blind eye toward this. >> and we -- yeah. it's going to be fascinating. that's a story that's going to continue. to read more about this, mike has a great article about how the feds let whitey get away with murder in time.com. >> check it out. >> this morning, it's a fascinating read. let's get to news. mike bloomberg, he's not happy.

>> in fact, when you said we were wrong, i thought that's what you were talking about. new york city mayor michael bloomberg is vowing to appeal after a federal judge ruled the city's stop and frisk practice to be unconstitutional. the judge called it a policy of indirect racial profiling that demonstrated a widespread disregard for the fourth amendment. backers say stop and frisk has been instrumental in slashing new york's crime rate, even saving the lives of thousands of young african-american and hispanic men. the very people the practice is accused of targeting. >> want to match the stops to where the reports of crime are. i don't think there's any question that one of the problems we have in our society today is that victims and perpetrators of crime are disproportionately young, minority men. that's just a fact. we go to where the reports of crime are.

those unfortunately happen to be poor neighborhoods and minority neighborhoods. >> it spite of the ruling mayor bloomberg says there will be no change in tactics overnight. >> donny, you're a new yorker, been a new yorker for life. this is -- there are times certainly over the past two decades where the leadership of michael bloomberg and rudy giuliani have presented a conundrum for manhattan liberals. because they can walk down the street with their kids, when, you know, without worrying about getting mugged. they can live -- they can live the sort of life that new yorkers couldn't live in the '70s. >> yeah. >> and the '80s and then there's the other side, that tug. are we going too far in keeping our streets safe? >> i'm a new yorker, i'm a dad and i could not agree more with mayor bloomberg. in my business, something called target marketing, where if you know people who are 60 plus and they're white and they're coffee

drinkers you focus your advertising in that direction. we call it a good use of resources. that's called efficiency and smart and that's what this is. if somebody said to me, guys wearing glasses were most likely to be terrorists and you stop me in an airport, profiled me and going to make me feel safer i'm okay with it. i think most new yorkers are okay with it. it's a grownup decision, big boy decision, and that's the reality. i think the irony of this whole thing is that they're saving the lives of african-americans and hispanics because that is also the hugest part of the victims in this crimes. so look, call me now a conservative, i just -- as a dad, i like that. i have no problem. >> gene, i'm always struck when i talk to liberals and i first started new york liberals, i first noted this in the 1990s, i was talking to one of the top democratic leaders flying in and she spent the hour from washington to laguardia trashing rudy giuliani, just trashing him

nonstop. i said so you, obviously, aren't going to vote for him. she said, oh, i'm going to vote for him. i can actually take my family to the theater without getting mugged. there's just always -- there's just for new york liberals, this is always a difficult choice, but i think those that can remember the '80s, can remember the early '90s, don't want to go back there and sometimes they're willing to accept things like stop and frisk, that they wouldn't accept in say kansas. >> yeah. you know, joe, i haven't read the whole decision but it teams to me there's a fairly simple solution, which is stop and frisk some white people also. but donny is right and you are right, that the stop and frisk policy is not terribly unpopular in a lot of the communities where it's practiced, at least not unpopular with senior citizens and others who feel safer, who feel they're able to, you know, go to the store and come home without fear of being

mugged and i'm sure it has contributed along with other factors in the decline in crime in new york. but the constitution doesn't allow targeted marketing. it says that -- that laws have to be enforced fairly and the judge saw discrimination in the way this was being enforced. i'm sure this will be litigated on appeal. but it seems to me there's a fairly obvious way around, at least that part of the decision. the fourth amendment question is a different question, but i don't know that that is -- that that would stop the whole policy. >> you could -- >> gene brings up an interesting point. new yorkers like me who are for it, if all of a sudden i got patted down for no reason, blah-blah-blah, i might turn around a little bit. >> what if gene's son is visiting up here on business. >> yeah. >> once again, i mean --

>> it's -- what if you were -- we talked about this with -- about gene and michael steele were on and it was just so jarring to us, that the talk that every african-american father has to give to his son. >> yes. >> which is, it's a matter of life and death, keep your hands up, on the dashboard, turn the lights on, so yes, i mean in the macro sense it makes a lot of sense. willie, you boil it down to, you know, the individual impact and you can certainly see why communities would be upset by it. >> it may make sense, it may be popular with white people living on the island of manhattan but if you're being stopped and frisked it's a different story. 50% of the city, black and hispanic. they make up 83% of the stops. another important number, only one out of ten of those stops result in even a summons, forget an arrest. so those nine people who were stopped now have a feeling about

their police and their mayor and their city they shouldn't feel. they shouldn't be ha raced because they're -- harassed because they put their hands in their pockets or look over their shoulder. that's a low bar. an officer get to determines what avertive movement is. if i'm one of the nine out of ten not doing something wrong i don't feel like i'm stopped and harassed. >> also, donny, if you were stopped and frisked three times in one year, you would not only be annoyed but it would make you very resentful and almost feel like quite frankly at certain times during a stop and frisk situation that perhaps you would panic and think that you're being harassed or maybe they would be planting something in your car. it hasn't happened to you. >> no. i caveated saying i might feel differently if i were stopped. >> exactly. >> what percentage of the crimes are actually committed by people who are profiled. >> and whether or not the data show this is reduced crime and violence and there is controversy over that. having said that, even if it

does, it's not being used correctly and as gene pointed out it has to be used more broadly to be fair, in order to not make minorities feel like they're being targsed. my husband broke this story a couple years ago and there have been reporters fanned out across areas in new york, you go to certain areas of new york, you can't find someone who hasn't been stopped and frisked. you can't find young black kid who hasn't been stopped and frisked multiple times if he's 17, 18, 19 years old. there's a problem there. and at this point, it can't go on in light of the trayvon martin conversation we've been having nationally. >> while this is front page news all over the country, it's not a news story. it's demography versus the constitution. in city after city after city. it's poor people who are being victimized by people who live in their own neighborhoods. we have to frame of reference for being stopped and frisked. people like us. we're white, we're middle class.

no frame of reference. we don't get followed in department stores when we go in as potential shop lifters or thieves. but the interesting aspect of this story to play off your initial feelings about it, if you go to certain parts of this city or any large city, and talk to people who live under the constant threat of crime, many of them poor, many of them minorities, they're very conservative about things like this. they sort of want to applaud the police for stopping and frisking. >> michael, and gene, michael nutter, has famously said he wishes he had stop and frisk in -- if he had stop and frisk in philadelphia and new york city's gun laws he thinks philadelphia's streets would be a lot safer than they are. again, it's just -- there is this -- you know, i think we all are offended by the fact that if you're an african-american, young male, in a certain neighborhood, the police are going to stop you for, you know,

what will seem to you like absolutely no reason. >> well, you're not going to -- you're not going to find more law and order people than in neighborhoods that have a problem with law and order. it's absolutely true. it's just that, you know, if you're going to do a policy like this, you really have to apply it fairly, i think, and you could stop and frisk on the upper east side and have nine out of ten of the stops result in no summons, no arrest, no nothing. you could do that anywhere in new york. >> gene, really brings up an interesting point. if i'm ray kelly, i kind of give a quota and say guys, i want you stopping x percent of whites. that ends the problem right there. >> quotas on the other direction -- >> but you know what that then, when that happens -- >> outrage. >> suddenly there will be outrage. i got to tell you, if i'm walking down the street and a cop stops and frisks me, does it

once, say thank you, sir. he does it twice, by the time he's down to my waistline, i'm like give me your badge number. this is going to be bad. i would say that whether i was a lawyer in pensacola, florida. the third time, i would say buddy, seriously you are going to be in trouble. go ahead. i'm just saying, none of us would put up with it. >> so, add to that, donny or joe, you're driving a car. okay. you're driving a car with your brother or a friend and the police stop you and there's four of them and there's two of you and they tell you get out of the car, against the car, they frisk you, they question you, and then two of them are in the car looking around. >> by the way -- >> what are you going to think during that time. maybe it's nighttime. are you going to panic and think are they planting -- what are you going to think? how are you going to feel? isn't that going to bring resentment and fear? >> and again, this is a follow-up on our conversation about a month ago. because mika is saying -- that

happens. forest whitaker is going to be on our show talking about "the butler." p i think i read a quote, he said -- >> and lee daniels. >> and lee daniels too. forest whitaker, i read him talking about, you know, the number of times he's been thrown up against a car and frisked because he's african-american and it's nighttime and he's driving a car through a neighborhood where the cops are concerned. i mean this is, obviously, a much bigger problem. >> it is a bigger problem and again, it's a matter of enforcing the law fairly. there aren't a whole lot of african-american men who haven't at some point at least been pulled over for driving while black. sometimes for walking while black. it happens. and you know, yeah, people get sick of it and people get angry at it and -- but there's this added reality that you know you don't -- you keep your hands

inside, don't make quick movements, you act in a certain way, because that's the serious part. that -- that's going to be taken, you know, how that's going to be interpreted by police and it could end very badly. >> all right. one more story to get to here. we will get to anthony weiner and hillary clinton. >> good. >> i know you want to do that -- >> something first, that's pay gap. >> more and more women -- >> between men and women. i'd much rather hear this than developments in anthony weiner and hillary clinton's campaign because, you know, more and more women are entering the top echelons of america's corporations. >> but a new study shows their pay still lags behind. >> outrageous. >> a bloomberg analysis of s&p 500 companiesp shows when you look at the top five best paid executives at each company, just 198 of more than 2,000 were women. that's only about 8%. they earned $5.3 million on average, not bad, but that's still 18% less than their male counterparts. the top female earners in the

country, oracle's chief financial officer and yahoo!'s marissa mayer who made $36.6 million last year. there are women breaking through, but on average, there's still a long way to go. >> a long way to go, but right now, in college -- >> that's correct. >> disproportionate amount of people graduating are women. it is a -- we are in the beginning of the wave. we're sitting here 15 years from now, that's going to be different. the numbers still are not good, but the tide has turned and hypocrisies of corporations will sort that out. >> there may even, i predict, somewhat, some day, an overcorrection where men find themselves having trouble keeping up. i do. it will take a long time but looking at the rate things are going, in school, right now. >> i agree. >> with women graduating. on tomorrow's show, our conversation with oprah winfrey. we sit down with her and director lee daniels for their film "the butler." still ahead, former new york governor george pataki joins the

table and editor and chief of buzzfeed, ed katz. >> he had good questions yesterday. >> he did. >> buckle up for the hyper loop. >> this is very cool. >> a billionaire innovator unveils his idea for a high-speed travel system that would send passengers hurdling through tubes at 700 miles per hour. >> i did that one night in college. >> amazing. >> i did that -- >> one of those. >> why some experts say this could actually be for real. up next, the top stories in the politico playbook. first, officials warn a sink hole in florida could continue to grow. a day after the ground swallowed up a part of a resort near disney world. more than 100 people were forced to evacuate as the building collapsed. no one was hurt and while the science is getting better, geologists cannot predict when and where a sinkhole will open up. did you see kerry sanders on "nbc nightly news" last night. >> did he start to sink? >> i'm going to show you his stand-up. he'll join us this morning. >> fantastic.

>> i hope he pours the water on the cement for me as he did for lester holt last night. let's go to bill karins now -- >> the water i can't wait to see. >> for more on this. bill? >> joe and i lived in florida and it's a way of life down there. you never know where they're going to open up. the thing different with florida and any other place in this country sandy soil on top of limestone and all of florida's water is underground in an aquifer system and during droughts or big floods it's easy for the limestone to bubble up and then you get these sink hoels. they pop up out of nowhere. under a house, in the middle of a field, under a building like yesterday. it's just a way of life there and it's very difficult for them to scan the ground to be able to find out where they are. this is kind of an animation showing how it happens and especially in a drought situation, and then bubbles up and you literally are walking on top of it and the weight just collapses the ground. i remember doing a story there where a lady was walking her dog and the dog and her both got swallowed and ended up a hole

and had to be rescued. as far as the weather goes, a little bit of breaking news out of the maryland area. kind of strange for this time of morning, but a tornado warning along i-95 through northern maryland. everybody from the aberdeen toward rising sun heading into northern delaware, stay in your homes for at least the next half hour. let the storm pass. possibility of a tornado this morning in northern maryland. right now it's doppler indicated tornado. we also have a horrible morning commute out there. this is going to be by far the worst airport tla day. torrential rains into new york city. major airport delays from philly to new york as we go throughout your morning commute. i'll keep you updated with the airport delays in the northeast as we go throughout "morning joe." washington, d.c., showers and thunderstorms also in your forecast this morning. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. hi, i'm karissa.

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time to take a look at the morning paper. mika. >> shall we? >> paul da lien in the news. >> she's not. what did she do? >>. >> you tell everybody. >> she's no longer facing charges of racial discrimination after a judge threw them out yesterday. the ruling comes after deen faced intense public backlash after admitting to using racial slurs. the lawsuit will shift to claims of sexual harassment. >> wow. okay. and from san jose mur kerry news. elan musk unveiled a plan for new transportation to reduce travel time between los angeles and san francisco to just 30 minutes. the hyper loop could reach speeds of up to 700 miles per hour using airless low friction tubes. he says his invention would cost less than $6 billion and transport over 7 million people

each year. >> "l.a. times" construns on california's shovel ready bullet train may not begin until 2014. that's not very shovel ready. >> two years behind schedule the bullet train project will cost an estimated $68 billion and would link san francisco to san diego, california. california was awarded stimulus money for the train from the white house three years ago that it must pay back by 2017. >> shovel ready in 2009 and we still have two more years to go. >> ridiculous. >> it is. >> "mem miss commercial appeal" a mother plans to appeal a controversial ruling on her baby's name. the parents of 7-month-old baby messiah were in court to settle a dispute over his last name. >> what? >> judge baloo ordered his entire name to be changed saying, quote, the word messiah is a title, a title that has only been earned by one person and that person is jesus christ.

there you go. what are they writing about in "the washington post"? >> i agree, jen. same facial. "washington post," amc's critically acclaimed series "breaking bad" opened its final season to huge numbers on sunday. nearly 6 million viewers tuned in to watch the highly-anticipated season premier marking the biggest audience in the show's history. this was a 100% increase over last season's first episode. there are seven episodes left in the series' final. >> bob filner update from the "san diego union tribune" the situation continues to get worse. 14 women have accused filner of sexual harassment and his bodyguards told investigators he took women to a hotel near his office at city hall, credit cards statements indicate he racked up $511 in charges at the hotel. >> what were they doing? >> i'm sure they were just talking about -- >> what's going on with that guy?

>> what was that? what was that? >> he has like, what's the -- when you're obsessed? >> sexual addiction. >> that. >> the telegraph also -- >> you can't get rid of that in two weeks and can't go to school for that either. i think he needs to -- >> time to go. >> yeah. "the telegraph" a continue known as gamesboy back is on the rise. what's going on in the news. increasing number of children develop spinal problems due to the prolonged use of videogames. >> seriously. >> just take the computer and smash it against the wall. >> give me -- >> move on as a family. yor pedics believe excessive hours of slumping over to play games can cause children to suffer from conditions such as slipped disks. >> it's time to bring back the draft and start drafting boys when they're like 7 years old. let's go to willie geist, he's got the politico playbook with a man, willie geist, that "new york times" -- >> i think he plays a lot -- >> suggested was responsible for

"the washington post's" demise and he must be destroyed, he must be crushed, he must be ground into the pavement like dust. >> fine dust. >> yeah. >> fine, fine specs of dust if "the washington post" is ever to rise again from the ashes. >> and you went on the record yesterday supporting that position as well. >> let me just say -- >> get him -- >> like harold ford jr., i can see the value in all three positions. >> what are you talking about? just move on. >> let's go to politico, the editor in chief down there, it's john harris. john harris. >> good morning, willie. >> john harris was in there. should we grind you to dust? >> bring it on. i'm ready. >> bring it on. more trash talk. mike allen yesterday. >> mike was -- hold on a second, willie. >> he trashed talked. >> mike allen wasn't good at trash talk. >> that column was wrong, by the way. it is like -- it's not a zero sum game, it's like when one restaurant goes around the corner, three more move in and all the restaurants do well. >> oh, my god. >> that's a load of crap.

either you die or the post dies. you all are in the death cage and only one of you are going to get out alive. willie, i'm sorry. >> all right. john said his peace on that one. hillary clinton, breaking her political silence, weighing in on an issue that could have an impact in the 2016 presidential race. north carolina, a state president obama lost by just two points last year, passed a strict new voter i. sdrjts d. law being challenged in federal court. it requires all voters to show a government issued i.d., among some other reforms. former secretary of state hillary clinton is taking notice. she weighed in during a speech at the american bar association. john, let's listen. >> sweeping effort across our country to obstruct new obstacles to voting. often under cover of addressing a phantom epidemic of election fraud. not every obstacle is related to race, but anyone who says that racial discrimination is no longer a problem in american

elections, must not be paying attention. and despite the best efforts of many well-intentioned election officials, discrepancies in resources across pretingss and polling stations still disproportionately affect african-american, latino and young voters. >> the republican governor in north carolina said this is common sense reform, good for the state. he thinks it ought to be in more places around the country. what do you think secreatary clinton's doing here by stepping out on this issue? >> well, i think you can always discount even with politicians the fact they're weighing in on something they genuinely care about and mean it. i think that's the case with hillary clinton. i'm sure her words were sincere, but as we know, everything she says these days is going to be viewed through a political prism. her people aren't really discouraging us from looking at things that way. we've got a de facto sort of run up to presidential campaign in 2016 and basically she's articulating what is the position on any democrat with

national ambitions, which is an overturning these voting laws, voting rights laws, was a bad thing and it should be reversed. >> hey, gene robinson, still have you in washington with us as well. >> yeah. >> this is a critical issue not just in the state of north carolina but other states where voter i.d. laws are popping up. >> yeah, it is. this north carolina law is really the most, i would say, draconian in that it not only -- it is voter i.d. but it also cuts out early voting and does a lot of other things that taken together, seem tailor-made to minimize african-american and other minority participation on election day in elections. that's what it seems to add up to, to anybody who looks at the whole package. and we should recall, again, that impersonation voter fraud basically doesn't happen. basically isn't a problem, so

all this is to fix a problem that isn't a problem. >> well, to your point, during the 2012 election, 7 million ballots cast in the general and two primary elections in the state of north carolina. 121 alleged cases of fraud reported. to your point, gene. john harris, thanks so much. there will be an anchorman style fight between politico and "the washington post" in a backyard somewhere in d.c. >> we'll air it live and sell tickets. >> i have to say, everybody in the control room agrees with me, the guys from politico the worst trash talkers ever. >> maybe vandehei is better, i don't know. >> i don't know. >> this is not -- >> john, thanks, man. >> see ya, man. >> coming up pete rose offering a new perspective, thank goodness, on the alex rodriguez suspension. his latest comments may surprise you. sports, next. [ male announcer ] if you've run out of tissues and considered other things...

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welcome back to "morning joe." time for sports. terrible news from the braves game. police investigating a deadly incident where a fan plummeted 65 feet from a stadium balcony.

the braves hosting the philadelphia phillies. the man fell from the upper deck to a parking lot, fell out backwards from the stadium shortly after the game began after a rain delay. so far police believe his death is accidental. it's a terrible story. meanwhile, pete rose, the game's all-time hit king is speaking out on alex rodriguez, comparing his troubles to those of the yankees slugger. rose, who was banned from baseball for life in 1989 for gambling says the sport has a double standard when it comes to punishment. he spoke openly about it during a radio apapers yesterday. -- appearance yesterday. >> everything is a different case. i made mistakes. i can't whine about it. i'm the one that messed up and i'm paying the consequences. however if i'm ever given a second chance i won't need a third chance. i just picked, to be honest with you, i picked the wrong vice. i should have picked alcohol, should have picked drugs, or i should have picked beating up my wife or girlfriend because if you do those three you get a second chance.

they haven't given too many gamblers second chances in the world of baseball. >> appeal the league's 211-game suspension. what do you think about old pete. >> if pete addressed his situation as honestly as he seems to be doing now, 20 years ago, he would at least be on the ballot for the hall of fame. he deserves to be in the hall of fame. you got rogers clemens on the ballot, you got sammy sosa on the ballot, rafael palmeiro, put pete rose on the ballot. >> beat up your wife, come back on the field. gamble, never see you again. brings up a point. >> the highlights from last night. rangers playing the astros, cruising, had a perfect game going with 11 strikeouts through six innings. with two outs and a 1-2 count, darvis and catcher aj pierzynski thought they got jonathan valar to end the inning. the umpire disagrees. few pitches later, darvish walks him. breaks up -- oh, wow.

>> runs him. runs pierzynski. >> get him out of the game. >> darvish would get his no-hitter broken up on a solo home run in the eighth. that's all the astros would get. rangers won 2-1. something yankees fans have been missing all season. granderson hitting a home run. his third home run of the season after hitting 43 last year. he's, of course, missed most of the season with a broken hand. yankees won 2-1. yankees al east rival red sox had the day off. but the team arrived in toronto early. if you're a red sox player you can do anything in toronto what would it be? spend the day at the zoo. the art gallery is nice. niagara falls not far away. they went to a baseball game. this is johnny gomes, jared sal ta mack ya, captain dustin pedroia and spent a day off at the ballpark and watch the a's beat the blue jays 5-1.

why not. >> sitting around the hotel. a ball game. >> behind home plate, good seats, freebies, that's me i'm there. >> i know it's you. >> coming up next mika's must-read opinion pages. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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other people going through the same thing in the city. >> the federal judge ruled the city of new york is liable for violating the constitutional rights of new yorkers. the judge went as far to say the nypd repeatedly turned a blind eye to clear evidence of illegal stops and frisks. this police officer provided key testimony in the ten-week-long trial. he first told his story about stop and frisk to eyewitness news three years ago. >> stopping kids from school, we're stopping kids walking upstairs to their house. stopping kids going to the store. >> the judge is not calling for the elimination of stop and frisk, but rather for sweeping reform and appointed a monitor to oversee the changes. >> wow. all right, welcome back. that actually, your husband, who jim hover, wabc who broke this three years ago. >> reporting on the ruling yesterday. >> and then i want to show this quickly too. this is "the daily news" and that's the scene, donny.

get a scene from i guess the battle days. that's what new yorkers are afraid of. >> it's interesting they chose black and white to do it. >> it takes you back. >> the grip of the '70s. >> people in their 20s don't remember what this city was like. >> fascinating. you feel something with that black and white. >> you do. >> waiting for son of sam to pop out. >> our must read, we'll continue this conversation from the "new york times" racial discrimination in stop and frisk and the paper writes in part this, at the heart of the floyd case are statistics showing that the city conducted an astounding 4.4 million stopsp between january 2004 and june of 2012. of these, only 6% resulted in arrests and 6% resulted in summons. in other words, 88% of the 4.4 million stops resulted in no further action. meaning a vast majority of those stopped were doing nothing wrong. more than half of all people stopped were frisked. yet only 1.5% of frisking found

weapons. in about 83% of the cases, the person stopped was black or hispanic. even though the two groups accounted for just over half the population. the city has consistently said that the disparity was justified because minority citizens commit more crimes. but john shinlin rejected this argument as she pointed out the reasoning is flawed because the stopped population is overwhelmingly innocent, not criminal. >> only 6% of 4.5 million, a quarter of a million arrests because of stop and frisk, they arrested a quarter of a million people. that's a lot of people that were doing something wrong. >> you know, and by the way, on for, you know, mike, for those who are saying, you know, donny was talking about you target it and you do, police have limited resources and so they target where they go. i agree with gene, you've got to stop and frisk everybody and

make it seem more fair but it gets to a point where it's like frisking grandma as you go through tsa, the airport, or frisking the little kids which they stopped doing. i'm sorry, gene. i should have directed that to you and mike. >> i was going to say that they kind of -- the number suggests they're already frisking grandma in a way because the vast m majority of people aren't doing anything wrong and, you know, i think we should acknowledge that this policy has an impact in communities. it probably has an impact on crime. it just should be applied fairly, should be applied in a way that doesn't seem transparently racially discriminatory. >> i have no doubt, mike barnicle, it has an impact on stopping crime, preventing crime, on chilling the soft behavie -- the sort of behavior that would lead to crime.

i have no doubt it has an impact on young african-american males on how they look at police officers, how they look at new york city, and the government, and how they look at the united states of america. >> could this -- well, i mean -- >> it sure as hell would have that impact on me. >> there's no question that if you're 18 years of age, and you're walking to the subway to go to nyu, to go to wherever, work or whatever, and you're stopped repeatedly over the course of a year, two, three, four times, stopped and frisked, your view of the police is going to be entirely different than other view of the police and yet, what you run into, again, in this city and other cities, is the geography of crime. they chart crime by computers. go to high crime areas. rockefeller plaza, upper east side, columbus circle in new york, those are not high crime areas. we know where high crime areas are. we know who lives there and they are the victims of crime and that's where the activity stop and frisk take place. >> we're going to continue this conversation, how fascinating.

talking about this three years because jim broke this. >> yeah. >> three years ago. >> and, you know, the bottom line with the ruling is that she ruled that it violates the constitution. whether it is stopped a crime or not, here's the problem, it has to be done correctly. the policy has to be used correctly and she's saying it's not. coming up, anthony weiner opens up about his sexting scandal. >> i really wish he would. >> didn't he already do that? >> he talked about -- >> i want more open. >> oh, lord. he talked about how it's impacted his relationship with his friend and former roommate, jon stewart. news you can't use is next. the average pizza dinner out is

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the one question that actually i got most from like buzzfeed staff and the internet was, why not use snap chat? >> i'm not going to answer that. >> okay. >> oh, my god. that was so fabulously awkward. >> he's becoming unhinged in every interview. just waiting. >> did you see hben. >> ben is great. i was talking about the moments in history. >> i want to see that again. >> yesterday, ben became the walter cronkite of our time. >> let's look at it again. >> he did a great job yesterday. >> that was great. ben asked the questions that

were on everyone's mind. >> so nervous, like shifting in his chair. >> ben was great. >> ben was great. so as a lot of people know, anthony weiner and jon stewart are old friends, roommates, knew each other in the early days in the 20s. he was asked by ben last night how the relationship is going post-scandal. >> yeah. >> i wonder kind of what the state of your relationship with him is these days? >> well, what? he's a comedian. >> come on, he's your friend. is he still your friend? i'm going to start asking you about stop and frisk soon. >> but you can do this -- >> this is something that's interesting. >> you can do this or show videos of cats, whatever you do at buzzfeed, but you know -- >> we -- we do it all. >> but no, i mean jon, you know, this notion that somehow i was a victim of late night ommics or victim of someone else, look, i did these things, they were embarrassing, the jokes literally write themselves, i did it during a slow news

period. people who make fun of this didn't do anything wrong. reporters who reported it didn't do anything wrong. as far as a comedian, he would get thrown out of the comedian union if he didn't do these joke. >> ben asked him the last time he talked to jon stewart, he said about six months. >> it's all because it was a slow news period this bubbled up. >> yeah. >> well -- >> my fault, but it was a slow news period. >> ben smith is going to join us in a few minutes and explain, play nor clips, what it was like to be across the table. >> adorable. he was adorabldorable. >> cronkite. >> snap chat question he was so uncomfortable. >> buzzfeed is great. the cat videos. >> second to none. nothing better. nothing better. >> up next, former governor of new york, george pataki joins us. we'll ask him about stop and frisk, among other things. "morning joe" back in a moment. a-a-a.

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[ heartbeat ] live look at times square. top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." mike barnicle is still with us. along with eugene robinson in washington. and joining the table, former republican governor of new york, george pataki. >> mika, you seem to be stopped in your tracks here. >> i am. i'm speechless. >> by this -- on -- can you help

us out here? justin bieber -- >> okay. so -- >> without any clothes on with a guitar covering him up. >> i was fine with that. don't want it to look at that. >> but these kids, you know these kids, he's serenading his grandmother and it's too disturbing. i don't understand. >> i'm -- >> i don't understand. bieber. >> i'm sorry, governor. >> it says -- >> i understand. >> serenading his grandmother. >> what is that? >> i don't understand that. >> help me understand. >> what's your position on the biebs? >> i think when you're talk ug to your grandmother you should at least have underwear on. i know it's controversy. >> that's fair. >> i'm out an limb here. >> i don't understand. can't even put it up. >> bieber fever and then these bieber fans that keep tweeting me and stuff, obsessed. >> i just don't understand why you would send this picture to your grandmother. i don't understand. >> this is actually -- >> what do you mean you don't

agree with me much? you agree all the time. be quiet, you're making me tired already. you agree with me 90% of the time. >> let's go to something that you probably could relate to a little more, this is a daily news cover and donny was talking how great it was, black and white, takes you back to the days in the '70s and '80s and early '90s when this was a scene that was too much a part of new york. this is why a liberal like donny deutsch who was on here saying, i'm all with bloomberg. you know what, what's the old joke, conservative is a liberal who's been mugged? that's how liberals in manhattan are this morning over the stop and frisk ruling. >> our liberals who were here in the '70s or '80s or '90s. in the early '90s there were close to 3,000 murders in the city in one year. this year there will be around 300. that's over 2500 lives saved. that's just murder.

that's not counting all the shootings, burglaries robberies. >> that's because of stop and frisk? >> in part because of stop and frisk. we changed a lot of the laws in sentencing in albany, but part is better policing. there's no question about it. >> don't you, governor, have concerns about a policy, even if it is part of the solution, where if i'm walking -- if i'm an african-american man walking down the street with my young daughter, i can be stopped for no reason whatsoever and then have to explain to my daughter why the police came for me for no reason? doesn't that worry you on some level? >> sure it worries me but i'm comforted by the fact that we have the best police department in the world, most ethnically and racially diverse, best trained police department and they're not doing this on a regular basis. the average number of times a police officer on the beat stops someone to ask them a question before they even think about frisking them, is less than one a week. and when you look at the consequences of this policy, the lives that have been saved, the

crimes that have been avoided, the quality of life that has been yimproved and overwhelmingy that is in low income and african-american neighborhoods where that crime has been targeted, if holder and obama want to investigate a police department, why don't they look at chicago where the civil rights of young african-americans are being not only taken away, but they're being murdered in record rates in south side of chicago. the policing there leaves something to be desired when it comes to protecting the constitutional rights of young african-americans to walk the streets with life, liberty and in the pursuit of happiness. >> even if you support stop and frisk, would you argue it could be improved? >> sure. >> nine out of ten stops resulting in nothing whatsoever. >> absolutely it can be improved and mike bloomberg and ray kelly are always trying to improve it. they are constantly looking and tweaking it. but what we are -- what this judge is saying she's going to have some wall street lawyer who sits in an office looking over the shoulder of every single cop

walking dangerous beats day in and day out at 3:00 in the morning or whenever. and going to substitute his judgment for their experience when they have been out there for 20 years, when they understand the nature of what is happening in a community and can make an intelligent decision as to when to ask someone what they're up to. >> eugene robinson? >> well, governor, we're not that far apart on this. there's certainly merit in stop and frisk if it's done fairly it seems to me. and, you know, 88% of the stops and frisks result in no summons, no nothing. you could get a record pretty close to that, maybe it would be 95% say if you did it, if you stopped and frisked on the upper east side or wall street, you know, you would probably have more given the criminality that happens down there. can't you just expand the gee

graph youcical areas where you and frisk. it's not a policy that just says, we're going to go harass young, black and hispanic men, which is basically what the judge says you got. >> all right. you know, eugene, first of all, good morning, but i disagree completely. 97% of violent crimes in this city are committed against minorities. african-americans or latinos. the -- you go where the crime is if you want to stop the crime. we don't have unlimited resources where we can flood the streets of midtown manhattan with police officers. it's easy to not pay attention to the housing projects like they do in chicago and let crime go on there. i can't tell you the number of times i've heard, oh, it's just gang members shooting other gang members, so what. it is i think a tribute to this mayor and police department that we are putting so much of our police emphasis in low-income neighborhoods, in high crime neighborhoods, so that the quality of life, the safety that

every one of us as an american should be entitled to feel comfortable in, exists not just on fifth avenue and park avenue, but exists on 125th street and ocean brownsville, that's something to be commended. >> so the policy as it's being used now, do you feel it should continue even if it violates the constitution? >> i don't think it constitutes a violation. it could, but i don't believe -- i think the judge is off based saying this is racially profiling. if you're going to be looking in high crime areas like the housing projects of new york city, then -- and you're going to be stopping people who your years of experience and training on the street tell you, should be asked a question about what they're up to, i think that's a commendable thing. it's not racial profiling. it's trying to prevent crime in places where too many cities in america, the white liberal establishment is says so long as crime is only going on down there, it's okay. it's not okay. every american has the right to

live the american dream. and this mayor is fighting for -- >> i think every black person in the bronx feels like they're living the dream when stopped and frisked three times, four times -- >> meika -- >> let's listen to mike bloomberg and continue this. he says stop and frisk has been instrumental in slashing new york's crime rate and saving the lives of thousands of young african-american and hispanic men, the very people the practice is accused of targeting. >> we want to match the stops to where the reports of crime are. i don't think there's any question that one of the problems we have in our society today is that victims and perpetrators of crime are disportion nately young minority men. that's just a fact. we go to where the reports of crime are. those unfortunately happen to be poor neighborhoods and minority neighborhoods. if somebody pulls a gun and you

want to get home to your family, you don't have time to say, now wait a second, the commissioner said one thing, the monitor said another and the ig said another. by that time you're dead and i would like to see you go to the funeral and explain to the family why their son or husband or father is not coming home at night. >> gene, there's obviously a flip side to this, and it's not not just new york, governor pataki mentioned chicago where they have a horrendous problem where nearly every week the homicides are off the chart and the homicides usually involve young black males, 18 to 21. the flip side of this is, a mother in chicago, washington, d.c., new york city, a parent, they have a civil right to go to the grocery store, to walk to the subway, to live a life without the threat of a handgun being put in their face, by someone who they probably know. the other element is, in all of

these cities that we're talking about, specifically new york city today, there are at least two groups of people who know the neighborhoods and know the players, the good players and the bad players in the neighborhood. the residents and the police. so what do we do about this contradiction? >> well, look, absolutely. i have consistently not said let's totally get rid of this kind of policing and you're absolutely right. there needs to be more police presence in these neighborhoods, as crime rates have gone down overall, not just because of stop and frisk, because of different demographic reasons, a lot of other reasons, crime rates have gone down across the country, it's -- it's kind of been forgotten that -- and kind of off the radar scope in terms of being a big issue in a lot of cities because it's just

happening in those poor, black and hispanic communities and we don't have to worry about it, we don't have to look at it, and it's, gee, it's a shame when it happens but it happens. and that's absolutely wrong and there needs to be a community police presence, there needs to be -- look, a program like stop and frisk can work, but you can't have it according to the 14th amendment as i read it, you can't have a policy in which you just -- you say we're just going to stop african-american and hispanic men and that is the effect of this policy. >> that's not the policy. it is targeting high crime areas. >> that's the effect of the policy. it's the effect of the policy. >> the effect of the policy is thousands of lives that are saved largely low-income minority lives because we have much lower rates of violent crime. >> yeah. and the rates of crime are going down and keep doing it, but do it in other parts of the city. you got to do that. >> all right. we're going to move on and come

back to this conversation. one of the most well-known mobsters of this era will likely spend the rest of his life in prison. a jury convicted mob boss james whitey bulger of dozens of crimes including conspiracy, racketeering and playing a role in 11 murders. nbc's kristen dahlgren reports. >> reporter: crowds swarmed boston's federal courthouse where inside after more than 32 hours of deliberations, jurors returned to a packed courtroom announcing the fate of whitey bulger, one of boston's most notorious reputed mobsters. the jury of four women and eight men found him guilty of dozens of crimes, including conspiracy, racketeering and playing a role in 11 murders. >> this day of reckoning for bulger has been a long time in coming. >> reporter: tom donahue whose father was killed more than three decades ago was among the family members present during the trial. >> whitey bulger pretty much destroyed my family in every category. >> reporter: the evidence shows

bulger was involved in 11 of 19 murders, found him not involved in seven, and couldn't agree on one, the death of 26-year-old deborah davis. >> my family has to live every day and the rest of the families have to live every day with the fact that they lost a loved one. >> reporter: the 83-year-old defendant showed no reaction a stark contrast to the seven week trial filled wiprofanity laced expolicetives. including steven the rifle men phle flemmi. an outburst from the defendant who called the proceedings a sham. >> mr. bulger knew, as soon as he was arrested that he was going to die behind the walls of a prison. >> reporter: bulger went on the lamm in 1994, evading law enforcement for 16 years and ultimately landing a place on the fbi's most wanted list. authorities finally caught up with him two years ago outside a santa monica apartment where they discovered weapons and more than $800,000 in cash.

>> i think james bulger was that gangster who finally, you know, saw justice. >> okay. mike, you a piece on time.com entitled "the feds let whitey get away with murder" and you write in part this. how is it that so many former fbi agents along with an assortment of former justice department lawyers from the 1980s and '90s were not required to testify about what they knew and when they knew concerning the fact that so many seemed aware that the fbi acted as a virtual bodyguard, a protector of bulger, in some cases actually obstructing boston and massachusetts state police detectives who were after him. is there a statute of limitations on corrupting the system? good questions. >> yeah. and questions that remain out there unanswered. i mean, there were a series of events that occurred in the '80s and '90s. i mentioned earlier, my brother was a homicide detective, my cousin was an fbi agent. every time they would get close or think they were close to

arresting jim bulger, whitey bulger, he'd disappear in a fog of information that he received from fbi agents because he was working for them, they thought. he wasn't. he was working for himself. >> mike, the dynamic of that is, if i have it right, there wases the italian and irish mob in boston and they thought by bringing whitey close he would give them information on the italian mob. that was mutually beneficial. >> the national obsession that fbi had in the '60s, '70s and '80s over organized crime in the mafia. they would do anything to get the mafia including letting someone like whitey bulger kill people. >> wow. >> unbelievable. >> all right. former governor george pataki. >> thank you for being here. >> good to be with you. thank you. >> thank you for coming on. >> that's not unusual. >> no, it's not. >> but that's what we do. >> that's right. >> you know what, governor, i'm with you most of the time. sometimes you're a little too liberal for me, but you know -- >> yeah, right. >> nice being with you.

even mike. >> that's what i say. eugene, thank you as well. >> thank you, gene. we appreciate it. >> thanks. >> up next, the cutest interviewer in the world. >> what are you talking about? >> oh, my goodness. watch the snap chat question when -- you have to watch ben during the snap chat question. >> i thought he was cronkite meets murrow. >> so awkward. chief of buzzfeed, ben smith, who sat down with anthony weiner for a wide-ranging interview. first, bill karins speaking of awkward, with the forecast. >> snap chat. >> yeah, really. >> speaking of snap chat, yeah, seriously. >> send me one more, i'm going to hr. >> well, i mean, you sent five to every one of mine. >> there you go. >> you just never do not take him on. just don't. he always steps it up. remember, you were talking about him not wearing underwear. >> yeah. >> and he asked, how do you know i'm not wearing underwear. come on. come on. >> it's just what you do. >> don't -- no don't do it. don't do it. don't throw him into that.

>> actually, unfortunately, one of the worst morning commutes of the year around baltimore, maryland, up to philadelphia, heading for new york city. so serious weather this morning. we had some tornado warnings that we were worried about. no confirmed damage there in the northern maryland section. in wilmington, delaware, right now, stay inside the storm is over the top of you. dangerous lightning, gusty winds and hail, heading for philadelphia next. so again, this is going to ride right through jersey, new york city is going to pick up maybe two to four inches of rain from about 8:00 a.m. to noon today. i expect major airport trouble. philadelphia to new york city as we go through the morning. that's going to mean a lot of issues for other people. rain out there, oklahoma, city to arkansas. as far as the forecast goes, the worth of it again, this morning, wilmington, delaware, philly and new york city. be careful out there. the rest of the weather this week looks better than what we're dealing with out there this mornings especially in the northeast. you're watching "morning joe" we're brewed by starbucks.

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the one question that actually i got most from like buzzfeed staff and the internet was, why not use snap chat? >> i don't have a good answer for that. >> um -- >> look at that. >> so cute. >> like and um, not -- >> like shifting. you're so -- it's very, very cute, the whole it thing. >> it's cute. >> i'm not a pro like you guys. >> call cronkite cute when he's reporting vietnam, willie? did anybody call cronkite cute? >> you were nervous. >> no, he wasn't. >> ben did a good job. >> i appreciate the support, willie. >> you did. you did. >> i mean, i'm not a pro like

you guys. i'm an amateur. >> what's wrong with you, mika. that was a great question. >> it was fantastic. >> so i'm on the twitter on my machine as pat buchanan calls his computer, on the machine, on the twitter, and i just happened while you were interviewing, it was unbelievable. second by second i said he asked what? and then weiner had -- he said -- you know -- >> by the way -- >> it was great. >> if you're 25 or younger when the scandal broke, you said, why didn't you just use snap chat. that was the right question. >> the other thing, what's so weird about this. not cheating on your wife or girlfriend obviously weird or not great, but 80% of college kids have exchanged sexually suggestive texts. i don't think that aspect -- >> the photo -- with the photo? >> that was maybe a little over the top. i don't think that -- for our audience that's not a strange thing. >> his own photo, anthony weiner -- >> dude, seriously, you don't

think that like teenagers and kids in their 20s aren't like doing that all the time? >> i know they're texting. i don't know if they're sending pictures of -- >> dear lord, willie. how old are your kid ss? mine haven't done it but how old are your kids? >> 6 and 4. >> my kids thing it's hilarious. this is something you can explain to a child. put it on the internet, like that is hilarious -- >> like cronkite, he goes there. >> here's the thing about your interview. you're just exactly you. >> how old are your kids to think that's -- hold on. >> 10 and 8. >> and they think it's hilarious. >> that's something you can sort of take the sexual piece out. that is like a funny story for a child. >> dude, you're out there. i love it. >> toilet talk at the table. >> that's not what we talk about -- >> they also understand that's inappropriate and not something you should do. >> why do you think, at least doing it, why did he appear to be so unhappy?

>> i don't know that really struck me too. he wasn't -- he wasn't out there trying to get people to like him, which is basically what a politician does on the campaign trail. he wasn't trying to win the room. he felt like he was trying to survive another hour. >> why? why? you had to sit there and ask why is he here if he's miserable? >> the theory, the sort of operating therapy of the campaign, a lot of voters who went through him once, disliked him, got used to him again. new york city mayor not a job for nice people or people with conventional personal lives. those are not qualifications of ed koch or rudy giuliani. david dinkins is the only mayor in recent memory married through his term. >> you asked about huma and her role in the campaign. take a look. >> is huma still working on the campaign. >> he's helping out every day. >> is -- do you know what her role in hillary's 2016 role is going to be? >> i do.

>> what will it be? >> i'm not telling you. >> do you feel like you've damaged her place in that world? >> i feel that what i have done has hurt her, yeah. it's hurt her professionally, it's hurt her personally. you know, we made a decision that these things werep behind us and we made a calculated gamble on the question of whether or not citizens would be more interested in their family's future than in my personal failings that are behind me and she's gotten roughed up and it's been completely unfair in my view. >> weiner also spoke about "the new york times" editorial board, calling on him to drop out of the race. >> "the new york times," wait for it, doesn't want me to win. >> why do you think that is? >> they're -- >> what's their problem with you? >> their heads are exploding over the idea and all i can -- >> why do you think that is? they kind of liked you in '05. >> they never did.

i don't have -- to them. i'm not treating "the new york times" endorsement as an end in and of itself. i don't care. this is the same people that brought you a third term for mike bloomberg. i don't care. it makes them nuts i don't care. >> wow. anthony weiner was asked about his ricelationship with his forr college roommate jon stewart. >> i wonder what state of your relationship is with him these days? >> what? he's a comedian. >> come on, he's your friend. still your friend? >> no. >> i'm going to start asking you about stop and frisk soon. >> you can do this -- >> this is something that's interesting. >> you can do this or show videos of cats or whatever it is you do at buzzfeed. >> we do it all. >> but no, i mean jon, you know, this notion that somehow i was a victim of late night comics or someone else, look, i did these things, they were embarrassing, the jokes clearly write themselves. i did it during a slow news period. people who make fun of this didn't do anything wrong. reporters who reported it didn't

do anything wrong. as far as a comedian, he'd get thrown out of the comedians union if he didn't do these jokes. >> that's great interview. >> one thing, this was maybe not immediately my perception i did hear from a couple women who watched it, here's a politician, totally owning his failures, not making excuses which isn't something you see a lot. >> yeah. >> i don't know. >> do you get the sense, ben, he genuinely in his heart still thinks he can be mayor, despite what he's been through? is he still in this race in his own mind? >> i've gotten that sense until he didn't come through in that interview as jazzed about the campaign in the way he almost always is. >> you look at the poll numbers, down 10%. if he can sneak into the top two he can get into a runoff. he's fallen off a cliff. >> three quarters of the voters view him negatively. that's a terrible number. >> he's got to be angry given what other politicians have gotten away with, if i may. >> right. >> by the way, look at the favorable and unfavorable. come on.

11 favorable, 80% unfavorable. mike, i'm not too good at this politics thing, but that's sort of a big mountain to climb. >> not a great number for you. what's interesting visually as you just were running it as we're speaking, the clips without the audio, he looks visibly, he looks defeated. and yet, he's there talking to you, answering your questions, which are very skillful. >> fighting to an extent. >> he just appears defeated. >> yeah. you know, he's usually -- he's usually very kind of a fun guy to interview and very combative. >> yeah. >> in an entertaining way. i expected him to filet me at some point and didn't feel like he had that much fun throwing punches. >> yeah. ben smith. really good interview. >> thank you. >> thank you so much. >> come back. >> any time. >> okay. all right. >> awkward -- >> yeah, really. >> blushing. >> he's blushing. >> on tomorrow's show, our

conversation with oprah winfrey. we sit down with her and director lee daniels for their new film "the butler." up next, a villa in florida is considered a total loss after a sinkhole swallowed it up as 100 guests slept inside. we'll have a live report when -- >> that's not good. >> with the reporter who is the best that ever was. >> best ever was. >> kerry sanders when "morning joe" comes right back. with the spark miles card from capital one,

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check out this pictures from illinois where fire investigators are looking for the cause of a gas pipeline explosion that led to the evacuation of 80 homes. it happened near the town of erie. luckily the explosion happened in a rel tuvly remote area and there are no reports of injuries. it's going to be a long cleanup after a resort near disney world in florida where 100-foot sinkhole swallowed up most of a building in the middle of the night. >> can you believe that? >> when you look at the video, the most incredible part is that somehow everybody got out alive. joining us from chairmonth, florida, nbc's correspondent at the scene, kerry sanders. i guess hello, kerry. good, he has it. >> he has what? >> so kerry -- >> cement and water. >> mika wakes up this morning, thrilled, blabbering, talking about this see meant like carrying this huge chunk can of

see meant and pouring water over it. >> let me explain it to you guys. the real question is why did this happen? look at that. it's a four-story building, two stories down into the sinkhole. what the geologists are looking at is the amount of rain that they've had here, 29.75 inches this year. that's not an excessive amount but that rain seeps into the soil and down about 20 to 100 feet is limestone. as the water goes into the limestone, it actually causes it to dissolve and so the question now is, whether the rain water set in motion this sinkhole. this morning geologists say this sinkhole already the length of a basketball court, may be growing even bigger. >> the open sinkhole may open other sinkhole triggers. it's possible. >> reporter: as the earth opened up and began to scal lo the four-story resort building full of sleeping tourists there were panicked calls to 911. >> we're trying to get them

evacuated and they're saying it's collapsing so fast they don't know if they will get to all the rooms. >> reporter: maggie on vacation with a friend and three toddlers escaped the collapsing building with little time to spare. >> it was a near-death experience. >> reporter: maggie and everyone else in the building were able to escape because a security guard went running through the halls ordering more than 100 people out. >> there was people sleeping. i literally had to wake them up and tell them to get out. >> reporter: the resort manager says the security guard is a hero. >> had he not acted on his own as he was trained to do, we are confident that there could have been many people trapped in those buildings. >> reporter: why do sinkholes happen? in florida sandy soil sits on top of clay and that is all supportedly a layer of limestone. when there is too much rain or a drought, it can create a void, as that void gets bigger, the earth on top becomes too heavy and the limestone gives way. but for those who lived through it, all the scientific

explanations won't make the experience any lester f-- less terrifying. >> you're shaking. it was that traumatic. >> yeah. >> so sinkholes really are not that unusual in florida if you get in a helicopter and fly over especially central florida, you see these perfectly round lakes, those are formerly sinkholes that became lakes and i know joe knows doubles mills hopper, one of the most popular visiting sinkholes that tourists just flock to check it out because it's so unusual. >> unbelievable. could this sinkhole get bigger? >> it could. i mean, not only could this one get bigger, but they have done some research and they have seen when one opens up often another one opens up nearby. so they're kind of monitoring what's going on. nearby doesn't necessarily mean 100 feet away. it could be a considerable distance of like, you know,

three quarters of a mile away. >> and nobody was hurt in this. >> i still can't believe everyone got out alive. >> it's remarkable. it comes down to the security guard who only worked here for two months. he's originally from kansas. he's never been through an earthquake. he wasn't exactly sure what was going on. he knew i got to do my job, tell people to get out. he had the electronic key that opened up like the skeleton key opened up every door. because it was so late, early in the morning, people were sleep. opening up doors and yelling to people, get out, get out, they're panicked getting out. a lot got out, but, you know, not without their clothes or laptop computers or cell phones. the red cross has been helping them out. i tell you, when you look at that it's just remarkable. >> god. >> remarkable. >> not only is everybody alive, but really, nobody was even injured. >> that security guard, that's the story right there. that's amazing. >> it really is. >> kerry sanders, as always, great to have you on the show. >> thank you, kerry. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> up next, congress is in recess but that doesn't mean

anyone is unplugged from reading e-mail on vacation to sleeping with a blackberry next to the pillow. "the huffington post" explores how nobody in washington seems to know how to stop working. we'll have that coming up.

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working. congressional leadership aides who set up automated e-mail responses about being away for a week, they're still on-line reading through e-mails selectively replying. 100% have the issue, it's pointless for me to put up a message said erica elliott spokes woman for kevin mccarthy. also i sleep with my blackberry in my hand, elliott said. it's not that she thinks she's so important she has to keep checking her messages. it's more like a smack addict. huff post asked more than a dozen people involved in d.c. politics in some form if they're capable of letting their e-mail inbox gather a little dust or if they have the will to stop weighing in on political news on twitter for a few days. the resounding answer was no. jennifer, so i guess my first question is, well, if they can't unplug and -- what are they doing? what are they doing? what are they doing, if they're still working on vacation? what's getting done? >> well, there's all kinds of

things they're doing that somehow seem very important in the moment that includes tweeting, that includes posting things on facebook, that includes checking your e-mail many, many times a day, and then there's always instagram where you can take a photo and have it look really cool and tweet that out and put it on facebook too. >> wow. this is like a common problem that -- that doesn't just happen in washington. having said that, there's got to be a limit. >> i -- it might happen in washington more than any other place in the world. jennifer, i would like to ask you off of this piece and other anecdotal evidence that you gathered by eyesight, do you think there's another place in the universe where they can fuse activity with achievement more so than in washington? >> not that i've seen. i mean, we can look at congress and, you know, they are constantly referred to as like the do nothing congress. there's lots of hustling and bustling. they voted to repeal obama care 40 times. that's some activity sometimes 40, but is that actually

something getting done? not really. >> yeah. i mean, you know, that's what happens when you're in the communications business, which is basically what these people are in. that's all they can topdo. >> can't miss a beat. >> back when i used to have a blog and i went away for an hour it felt like i didn't exist. twitter will take care of your readers. there's no risk of being on twitter. i got back from a week of fly fishing in maine, off the grid, twitter kept people busy. >> i'm going to try that. >> think about what you do and buzzfeed. it get back to the definition of work. it's -- we all do it. it's not really work. it's just that fear of missing something. i came in from being off from a couple days and said what about this story. they were like that's yesterday. every story, that's yesterday. it's not even yesterday. if it's six hours old it's old and the need to be on top of that -- >> i found as far as i found nothing happened last week. i missed it with no apparent

damage. >> what jennifer found is pretty important in terms of the challenges that we deal with trying to have families and jobs and be effective as people and actually working on this third metric series with arianna huffington, it actually is -- it's a mental health issue but also how effective are you if you're on-line and tweeting and you're on your e-mail and sleeping with your blackberry. at some point you do get worn down. jennifer, did you find that any of these politicians or their aides or staff members were trying to do something about this? at least in their personal lives? >> well, you know, i was lucky with the timing of this story, because one lawmaker that i reached out to, congresswoman debbie wasserman-schultz, it happened that the coming saturday was her daughter's tenth birthday and her daughter, for her birthday, wanted her mom to stay off of all of her gadgets for 24 hours and that includes multiple phones and an ipad for 24 hours, midnight to midnight and the congresswoman said she thought about it and

said okay, i can do this. so she did it. she went 24 hours. they were in a car, hung out, did a little road trip, i think she told me that they didn't even use an iphone to look at maps. they looked at maps. remember paper maps. and they had a great time. she said that if anything, you know, she felt like she got the bigger present out of that day than her daughter because she hadn't unplugged in years and this is a congresswoman who it should be noted is also the head of the democratic national committee. this is a busy woman. >> how after the day away of being plugged did she get back to you? >> she got back to me the next day. but she told pe that her daughter said that she didn't believe that she -- that she could do it. and she did it. and it sounds like going forward, it had such an effect on her, that -- in the coming weekends, she's going to try to actually unplug for at least a day here and there, because she realized that she's never really that present with her family when she's got all her ipads and

phones sitting all around. >> i'm telling you, it's the challenge of the working mother. i know so many women with this problem. jennifer, thank you so much. >> sure. >> good to have you on. still ahead, l.a. to san francisco, at 700 miles per hour. the details behind a new proposal that rewrites the rules of high-speed travel. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. the average pizza dinner out is

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more an more women are entering the top echelons of america's corporations. but a new study shows their pay still lacks behind. a bloomberg shows when lou at the top five best paid executives at each company, just 198 of 2,000 were women. that's only about 8%. they earned $5.3 million on average, obviously not bad, but that's still 18% less than their male counterparts. top female earner's oracle's chief financial officer and yahoo!'s marissa mayer who earned $36.6 million. the situation continues to get worse for bob filner.

i don't know how to continue. is he still mayor? fourteen women have accused filner of sexual harassment. that was the beginning. there was the face stroking story. in the latest twist, his bodyguards told investigators he took women to his office near city hall. credit card statements show he racked up charges at the hotel between january and may. >> he completed the course early. >> he finished his two weeks of training. that is a joke? >> in about four days. he's a fast learner clearly. >> i don't even know what to say about it. >> what's that cool? i'd like to be in the classroom. what do you teach someone about the mayor of san diego about sexual harassment. i want to know who the professors are in that class. it must have been like an

episode of "curb your enthusiasm." >> exactly. >> often you hear this in the context of weiner or some other sex scandal but this is so different. >> this is weird. >> almost feel like someone is joking me with these scripts. it's for real. >> he's a guy that goes to talk to women who have been victimized sexually. >> and starts hitting on them. >> like brad pitt in fight club going to the support groups for free coffee and companionship. it's pure fiction. >> moving on, charges of racial discrimination against paula deen were thrown out on monday. this ruling comes after deen faced intense public backlash a few months ago after admitting in a deposition to using racial slurs. the lawsuit will now shift to claims of sexual harassment. public relations experts say despite the ruling in deen's favor, the damage to her career is really done. >> some real fiction on tv stories. even if you're not a fan of

breaking bad, it's almost impossible to ignore the buzz in the final season. nearly 6 million viewers tuned in last season. the biggest show in history. more than 100% increase on last season's episode. the series has inspired late night host jimmy fallon to consider a new look. he posted this photo on twitter. at first glance he looks a lot like bryan cranston. if you look closer, it's fallon doing a little bit of a look alike. jimmy kimmel is also excited about "breaking bad"'s last season. he has an idea for a spinoff. >> now that it's near the end of the run, they need someone to replace it. i have a great idea. i think they should combine it with another long-running and beloved show to make it into a program for kids.

>> to save your sorry -- he bombed a nursing home. >> i'm a dying man who runs a car wash. my right hand to god, that is all that i have. tread lightly. >> oh, my gosh. >> walt taking to hank. >> ben smith, thank you again. >> yes. >> great to have you on. you can see ben's full interview with anthony weiner on buzz feed. up next mayor bloomberg responds to a major decision on stop and frisk. he said the policy is a good thing for minorities. "morning joe" will be right back. with the fidelity american express credit card, every purchase earns you 2% cash back,

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." isn't it a happy day? >> happy day. >> happy, happy, happy. with us on set we have mike barnicle, donny deutsch and in washington eugene robinson. >> we have a lot going on today. you look at the front page of the "new york times," you can see michael bloomberg, not a happy man. of course, we're going to be talking about that. also mike barnicle here to talk

about whitey bulger and the conviction in boston. wow, that's really something, too. i'm willie geist. at times there are moments, cracks in time in history when something happens historically and there's really no great explanation. of course, you and i always talk about this. lee at gettysburg. pick his charge. >> i just know you're up to something. >> best part of show, i have no idea -- >> i'm leading. >> i'm just waiting. >> willie and i talked about this. at gettysburg he gets the word in and says to one of his generals, use your division. he says, sir, i have no division. lee figures out all is lost because of picket's charge. he says, it is my fault. it's all my fault. that's all he had. mcnamara, secretary of defense on vietnam, we were wrong.

ben smith. >> now i know. >> why didn't you use snap chat? willie geist. >> ben smith interviewing anthony weiner on stage. >> that was the question. >> said i don't have an answer for you. >> if you were like me, i went back to general lee. >> just a little much. >> all my fault. >> eugene, did you not like his story? you do not realize that we are living through serious times. >> one of those moments, one of those times when it turns. >> it's a crack in time, willie geist, and we're right in the middle of it. >> we finally got sick of ben's good and persistent questions,

shouldn't you go back to posting videos about cats or whatever you do at buzz feed. on cats. >> this whitey guy, did he ever threaten to kill you? >> no, not really. >> give us your best whitey story. >> there are no good whitey stories. >> of course not. the best bad. >> the best story is actually donny and i were talking about it earlier, the whitey bulger stuff is murderous, villainous, creepy, sick, but the story of the bulger brothers is much the better of the story. bill bulger was president of university of massachusetts. by all accounts, a very good job. >> a lot of people thought all through his tenure that even though he's one of the most respected men in massachusetts, he may know where his brother was. >> a lot of people thought that,

but he didn't. the larger point is the complicit of the federal government in bulger, whitey bulger being allowed to run amok for 20 years. my brother was a boston police officer, homicide cop. my cousin was an fbi agent. they both would always run into obstacles when they were close to get something on whitey bulger, whether it was drug trafficking, whether it was murder, whatever it was, something would happen. he would be told something, whitey bulger would be told something, and he'd disappear in terms of being able to be captured. >> why was that? >> the fbi was complicit in his career for over 20 years. a series of agents, none of them were on trial, no assistant u.s. attorney from washington in the justice department on trial. the prosecutors did a terrific job here and the trial couldn't go on for eight or nine months, we knew that. a lot of people were complicit

and obstructed justice of getting to whitey bulger. >> will we ever know those stories? will we ever know who those agents were and who was complicit and how high up it went? >> you know, gene, we do know. there are reporters like shelly murphy, all from the globe who did a series on the complicit of the fbi nearly 20 years ago, 10 or 15 years ago. certainly a lot of massachusetts state police detectives, former boston police detectives, and some fbi agents, they know who the corrupt agents were. they know who the u.s. attorneys were who turned a blind eye toward this. >> it's going to be fascinating. that's a story that's going to continue. to read more about this, mike has a great article about how the feds let whitey got away with murder at time.com. check it out this morning, it's a fascinating read. lets get to news, mike

bloomberg, he's not happy. >> when you said we were wrong, i thought that's what you were talking about. new york city mayor michael bloomberg is vowing to appeal after a federal judge ruled the stop and frisk practice to be unconstitutional. the judge called it a policy of indirect racial profiling that demonstrated a widespread disregard for the fourth amendment. backers say stop and frisk has been instrumental in slashing new york's crime rate, even saving the lives of thousands of african-americans and hispanic men, the very people it is accused of targeting. >> we want to match the stops with reports of where crime are. i don't think there's any question one of the problems we have in our society today is that victims and perpetrators of crime are disproportionately young minority men. that's just a fact. we go to where the reports of crime are.

those unfortunately happen to be poor neighborhoods and minority neighborhoods. >> in spite of the ruling mayor bloomberg said there will be no change in tactics overnight. >> donny, you're a new yorker, been a new yorker for life. there are times certainly over the past two decades where the leadership of michael bloomberg and rudy giuliani have presented a conundrum for manhattan liberals. they can walk down the street with their kids without being worried about getting mugged. they can live the sort of life that new yorkers couldn't live in the '70s and '80s. then there's the other side, are we going too far to keep our streets safe? >> i'm a new yorker. i'm a dad. i could not agree more with mayor bloomberg. in my business, if you know people 60 plus and white and coffee drinkers, you focus your advertising in that direction.

it's what we call a good use of resources. that's called efficiency, it's smart. that's what this is. >> gene, i'm always struck when i talk to liberals. when i first started new york liberals, i first noted this in the 1990s. i was talking to one of the top democratic leaders flying in. and she spent the hour from washington to laguardia trashing rudy giuliani, trashing him nonstop. i said, so you're not going to vote for him? i'm going to vote for him. i can actually take my family to the theater without getting mugged. for new york liberals, it's a difficult choice. those that can remember the '80s, can remember the early '90s, don't want to go back there. sometimes they are willing to accept things like stop and frisk that they wouldn't accept in, say, kansas. >> you know, joe, i haven't read this whole decision but it seems

to me there's a fairly simple solution which is stop and frisk some white people also. donny is right and you are right that stop and frisk policy is not terribly unpopular in a lot of the communities where it's practiced. at least either not unpopular with senior citizens and others who feel safer, who feel they are able to go to the store and come home without fear of being mugged. i'm sure it has contributed, along with other factors, in the decline in crime in new york. but the constitution doesn't allow targeted marketing. it says that laws have to be enforced fairly, and the judge saw discrimination in the way this was being enforced. i'm sure this will be litigated on appeal. but it seems to me there's a

fairly obvious way around at least that part of the decision. the fourth amendment question is a different question. but i don't know that that is -- that that would stop the whole policy. >> gene brings up an interesting point. new yorkers like me who are for it, if all of a sudden i got patted down for no reason, blah, blah, blah, i might turn around. >> what if you were gene's son up here visiting on business? i mean, we talked about this, about gene and michael steele were on, and it was so jarring to us the talk that every african-american father has to give to his son. it's a matter of life and death. keep your hands up on the dashboard. turn the lights on. so yes, in the macrosense it makes a lot of sense. but willie, you boil it down to the individual impact and you

can certainly see why the communities would be upset by it. >> it may make sense, may be popular with white people living on the island of manhattan but if you're one of the people being stopped and frisked an entire different story. 53%, 83 per of those stopped. nine people stopped now have a feeling about their city and mayor they shouldn't feel, they shouldn't feel harassed because they walk down the street and put their hands in their pockets, look over their shoulder. furtive movement. if i'm one of the nine out of the ten who isn't doing anything wrong, i don't feel i was stopped for no reason and harassed. >> donny, if you were stopped and frisked three times in one year, you would be not only annoyed but it would make you

resentful and feel like at certain times during a stop and frisk situation that perhaps you would panic and think that you're being harassed or maybe they would be planting something in your car. it hasn't happened to you. >> i'm saying i might feel differently if i was stopped. >> exactly. >> i'm going back to what percentage of the crimes are committed by people they are profiling. >> whether there is reduced crime, reduced violence. there is controversy over that. having said that, even if it does, it's not being used correctly. as gene pointed out, it has to be used more broadly in order to be fair, in order for minorities not to be targeted. my husband pro this story a couple years ago. there have been on the local level in new york, spanned out across new york. you go to certain areas in new york you can't find someone who hasn't been stopped and frisked. you can't find a young black kid who hasn't been stopped and frisked multiple times if he's

17, 18, 19 years old. there's a problem there. at this point it can't go on especially in light of the trayvon martin conversation we've been having nationally. >> this story is front page news all over the country. it's not a new story. it's demography versus constitution, in city after city. poor people victimized by people who live in their own neighborhoods. we have no frame of reference for being stopped and frisked. people like us, white, middle class. no frame of reference. we don't get followed in department stores when we go in as potential shoplifters or thieves. the interesting aspect of this story to play off your initial feeling about it is you go to certain parts of this city, or any large city, and talk to people who live under the constant threat of crime, many of them poor, many of them minorities. they are very conservative about things like this. they sort of want to applaud the police for stopping and

frisking. >> famously said, he wishes he had stopped and frisked. if he had stop and frisk in philadelphia and new york city's gun laws he thinks philadelphia's streets would be safer than they are. there is this -- i think we all are offended by the fact if you're an african-american young male in a certain neighborhood, the police are going to stop you for, you know, what will seem to you like absolutely no reason. >> you're not going -- you're not going to find more law and order people than in neighborhoods that have a problem with law and order. it's absolutely true. it's just that if you're going to do a policy like this, you really have to apply it fairly, i think. you could stop and frisk on the upper east side and have nine out of ten of the stops result in no summons, no arrests, no nothing. you could do that anywhere in

new york. >> gene, really an interesting point. if i'm ray kelly, i kind of give a quota and say, guys, i want you stopping x percent of whites. >> according to some reports -- >> then when that happens -- >> outrage. >> suddenly there will be outrage. >> never put up with it. >> if i walk down the street and a cop stops and frisks me does it once. say thank you, sir. does it twice. by the time he's down to my waistline, give me your badge number. this is going to be very bad. i would say that whether i was a lawyer in pensacola, florida. the third time, buddy, seriously, you are going to be in trouble. i'm just saying none of us would put up with it. >> so add to that, donny or joe, you're driving a car. okay. you're driving a car with your brother or a friend and police stops you. there's four of them and two of you. they tell you to get out of the

car, get against the car, they frisk you. 2011 them are in the car looking around. what are you going to think. maybe it's nighttime. are you going to panic and think are they planting? what are you going to think? how are you going to feel? >> why don't we ask gene. gene, this has happened -- this is a follow-up on our conversation about a month ago. because mika is saying -- that happens. forest whitaker talked about the number of times he's been thrown up against a car and frisked because he's african-american and it's nighttime and he's driving a car through a neighborhood where the cops are concerned. i mean, this is obviously a much bigger problem. >> it is a bigger problem. again, it's a matter of enforcing the law fairly. there aren't a whole lot of african-american men who haven't at some point at least been pulled over for driving while black. sometimes for walking while

black. it happens. yeah, people get sick of it. people get angry at it. but there's this added reality that you know you don't -- you keep your hands inside, you don't make quick movements. you act in a certain way, because that's the serious part. that's going to be taken -- you know how that's going to be interpreted by police and it could end very badly. >> what's next on "morning joe"? >> coming up on "morning joe," visionaries:2013, conde nast. billionaire behind rockets setting closer to home. his plan to move passengers between cities at 700 miles an hour. >> i like it. >> that seems -- okay. first, bill karins.

we could put him on one of those things. how quickly would he be gone. disappear, bill? >> hyper loop. it's a loop, guys. i'd be back. that's the issue for all of us. as far as this morning, airport delays piling up at laguardia, in and out philadelphia. heavy rain moved through. we did have a tornado threat in maryland. no reports of tornadoes. i did see funnel clouds. south of philadelphia, torrential rain. flash flooding very high allentown, lehigh, ewing to trenton, new york city. new york city has from now until noon for this heavy rain. heavy rain oklahoma city to fort smith. laguardia 45 minute delays, newark 4:30. philadelphia not recording any. that surprises me. the thunderstorm is close to them, right over the top. storms throughout the morning. a little better this afternoon. this afternoon to this evening, raleigh, richmond, we'll watch you for storms.

rest of the country had how does 72 sound? partly cloudy skies, like fall in chicago. kind of crazy out there. one other spot very cool, los angeles, 16 straight days you haven't hit 80 degrees. you'll do it today at 81. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. at farmers we make you smarter about insurance,

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he calls his system hyper loop, has it speeding through hollow tubes at the speed of sound. no turbulence, weather delays, no air traffic control. if the idea had come from anyone else, the world would hardly notice. this idea of transporting passengers at 700 miles an hour through tubes, just like the jetsons comes from, well, ironman. yeah, that ironman, or the rich inventor hollywood based the tony star character on. 42-year-old billionaire who helped found paypal, then tesla motors, which has turned heads

with its battery-powered cars, then spacex, the first commercial company to dock with the space station. now he's talking super fast travel called hyper loop. >> how would you like something that can never crash. it is immune to weather. >> on monday he released the details. 57 pages of schematics, equations, artists renditions of his plan to whisk travelers 400 miles san francisco to los angeles. the hyper loop tubes would sit atop giant pylons along highway 5. >> a cross between an air gun and hockey table. >> before you think it's crazy, a colorado company has been working on a similar plan only bigger, going 4,000 miles an hour. >> new york to beijing china, for instance, in two hours. >> while it may be possible, how likely is it?

>> if it costs billions of dollars to build, how much are consumers going to have to pay to ride this thing. >> he insists the ride would cost far less than an airline ticket. he's proven many skeptics wrong in the past. the ironman costume sits on spacex floor. >> so you're ironman? >> ironman in some aspects. >> hyper loop will fly. >> i've been reminded ironman character, comic book character predates musk himself. that's true but hollywood used musk for his character. he says he doesn't have time to build hyper loop. he's running tesla and spacex but hopes others will see his diagrams and make his dream a reality. back to you. >> fascinating. with us now editor of popular mechanics magazine. jim, i remember back in first grade getting this little flyer thing, weekly reader, whatever,

telling me that by 1985, we were all going to be flying around in cars like the jetsons. you look at this, 700 miles an hour, it seems fantastical but it's not, is it? >> technically, it can work. it's a grand back of the envelope plan. >> by the way we're looking at a "popular mechanics" cover from 1940. >> it's exactly the kind of thing popular mechanics has looked into years and years. just because it's feasible doesn't mean it's going to be built. flying cars are feasible but it's not practical to have everybody flying around the city. >> is this practical? >> it's practical if you can get it built. the idea of putting a vehicle inside a tube, low pressure, high speeds makes a lot of sense. the problem is, it's california. you have to build it against a lot of local regulators and activists. could you actually get the

political will to get it built. that's the biggest question, not the technical question. >> what about the money? >> what's really interesting, the reason musk got interested in this, he was so frustrated for the high-speed rail for california, which is tens, tens of billions of dollars. no one knows how much. he thinks it's crazy. he says why not build it better. he thinks someone could build it for $6 billion, a fraction of high-speed rail. you don't need as much. you build an elevated route along the highway. you don't need to get all this new land for high-speed rail. in some ways i think he's absolutely right. again, whether this could actually get built is the question. >> i have a lot of questions. i look at that diagram, i think about safety. they talk about transportation safety. one major chink in the tube, whether it's insurance or politicians want to back this,

there could be a lot of problems, too, a lot of people's lives lost as quick as they could get to l.a. >> everything has had a lot of accidents. i think you can do it safely. you're putting them in a tin can and squirting them down a tube at 700 miles an hour, we're going to want to test this pretty carefully. >> i would bet you could build it, certainly is feasible. you could get it done if you were talking nebraska, idaho, texas. in california, the environmentalists, what route from l.a. to san francisco, what could it disrupt. i could see it tying that up for 50 years. >> here is what's so great. so great to have a guy like musk talking about big ideas, the kind of ideas a smart tenth-grader might have sketching in the back of his geometry book in the back of the classroom. here is a cool invention, why don't we try this. we need more people like that. >> he's a guy that can go to

space. he can build a car better than any carmaker can for centuries. he truly is. he doesn't have a look like howard hughes. he's like that kind of character, anything he wants to do he could do. he's deciding on this one not to double down and do it. >> tesla, we look at wall street, which just is bowing down to him and his car right now. is it all that. >> it is. whether tesla will be a stand alone car company is a question. it may be a tech startup. >> what makes it a question? >> first of all, he's revolutionized the notion of electric cars by making them cool. electric cars are have been feasible forever. he's making it attractive. he's making it beautiful. he's revolutionizing how you sell cars, getting rid of big networks carmakers have to rely on.

>> if i want to buy a tesla, what do i do? >> he owns the the dealers. if you go to any other kind of car, you have to go to an independent dealer. those dealerships play a role in the community. they are not the most efficient way to distribute a car, especially a boutique, low volume car like this. he's revolutionized car business, space travel. >> founded paypal. he has a pretty good resume. >> very good resume. what he's done whether hyper loop comes to fruition or not, at least he's injected it into the conversation about our transportation infrastructure in this country which is 50 years behind the times. >> it's so interesting, a lot of people are looking, lets do high-speed rail. >> he's saying high-speed rail is an idea from the 50s. lets loop frog it. >> thanks so much. we appreciate it. >> great to be here. >> fantastic.

lets hope, man. >> you and i, l.a. to san francisco, down the tube, an hour. boom, we're there. >> i don't know. i don't know. again, the obstacles. i think you're right. it's not even the money so much. >> california, not happening. >> this is california. do it in texas. coming up, a moving jerry lewis tried to keep hidden for 40 years. guess what, he failed. we got it. clips have surfaced about a clip about a clown in nazi, germany. he never wanted it to see the light of day. is that sonar around here? right now, 7 years of music is being streamed. a quarter million tweeters are tweeting. and 900 million dollars are changing hands online. that's why hp built a new kind of server. one that's 80% smaller. uses 89% less energy. and costs 77% less.

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oh, my gosh. >> 35 past the hour. >> that's the plot line? >> it's the darkest project of jerry lewis's career. more than 40 years after the comic legend derreked this controversial film, clips are coming to light. lewis himself said the movie about a german clown who leads the film to the gas chamber was so bad he would never allow it to be released. the public is getting the first looks on youtube and mike taibbi has the story. >> he's the director and star, a

down on his heels clown who stumbles through a few lame routines. the narrative having him leading doomed children to the nazi gas chamber before joining them himself. here seven minutes of video from jerry lewis's the day the clown died. now seen with fascination the world over. >> i'm an old-fashioned filmmaker. i should be 80 years old. >> lewis himself said last january the film was so bad he would never allow it to be released. as a comic actor lewis was hollywood's biggest star for two decades, from the 17 buddy movies he made with dean martin, to his solo star turns in films like "the nutty professor." but lewis was always a polarizing figure, some critics carping he was overrated, overreaching, especially french critics seeing him as a transformative talent in film. the day the clown died, a

holocaust tragedy, the fact it was suppressed made it a cult interest. >> it has been hidden from view, that increased interest. >> took on others, "the king of comedy" a talk show star stalked by a relentless fan. >> so i made a mistake, so did hitler. >> this was his biggest mistake, other than his ugly split with dean martin to his run as a telethon host. >> he thought he was doing something good, potentially great. >> when it wasn't he locked it away, except for seven minutes now debuting online. >> good lord, mike. a holocaust-themed tragic comedy. did he lose his mind all those years ago? >> "the day the clown cried." what was he smoking, man? >> wow. >> it's so offensive.

>> yeah, undeniably, utterly offensive. >> forty years. >> coming up from actress and politician to journalist, conde nast traveler celebrates the vision -- >> lets change the topic. >> making a difference in communities around the world. the magazine's executive editor kevin doyle joins us straight ahead. when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals:

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look at lewis. can we get lewis on camera at least? >> i'm too shy for that. >> he is too shy. what are we doing? look at that, got his hair slicked back, john travolta. >> you were good until you put

that hamburger on the air. >> gross hamburger. >> executive editor of conde nast traveler kevin doyle, featuring visionaries in 2013, highlighting those making a difference around the world. lets first talk about it. summer, people traveling. you work a lot in the summer, not a whole lot of time to travel. where is like the new hot place? >> the new hot place? >> yeah. >> that depends who you ask. >> i'm asking you, baby. i'm asking you. >> you're the guy. >> portugal is hot right now. portugal has been heating up for a while. it's very popular, so that's a hot destin. i think southern utah is always hot. i think the hottest destination of all is the september issue of conde nast traveler magazine. >> there you go. portugal really quickly, though, a lot of history there. >> food. >> it's just a place people haven't been before. >> it's not on the radar so much. they think of spain, england, paris, italy but not so much

portugal. i think that's why it's being discovered. it's been there, been great. people are starting to discover. >> a friend of the show that spent a week and a half there and absolutely loved it. i was surprised when he said he was going there. loved it. said the people were great, food was great, history, the whole thing. lets talk about a very interesting cover. talking about people who are making a difference. >> making a difference. this is our visionaries issue. on the cover we have frid, a pinto. >> very cool. >> photographed there in kashmir, which is another destination heating up. we think it's poised to take off as an international destination. the british government just lifted its ban or its warning on travel there, because things have quieted down after 20 years of a territorial dispute. the reason she's on the cover, she's one of the visionaries.

these are people who are working to solve challenges around the world. she's working on women's education. she's the global ambassador for plan internationals because i'm a girl campaign. she champions women's education. that's because, not because it's fair, not because it's smart, not because it's the right thing to do but because it's smart. a woman who is educated has a 50% better chance of immunizing her children, she's three times less at risk of contracting hiv. she will reinvest her in come back into the family. >> dr. greg allgood. >> turned a miraculous product that will turn filthy, fet i had water into drinking water. >> really? >> procter & gamble tried to sell this. they couldn't make a profit

selling it in the developed world. they wanted to put an end to it. he convinced them to set this up as a nonprofit business which they have done. they just delivered 6 billionth liter of water and committed to saving one life a minute in 2020. >> given the critical state of getting clean water to people in continents like africa, do they have partners? is it an ngo? >> that's how they work. they partner with ngo. the ngo pays part. it costs two cents to give two liters of water, which is what we as human beings require a day. p&g pays one-half and an ngo will pay half of that. they have ngo partners around the world. >> excuse me. >> i was going to take a left turn. >> i was going to ask how "the new york times" fits in as a visionary in terms of travel. >> listen, our readers are

deeply curious. they want to know what's going on in the world. we cover sexy beaches, hot hotels, fantastic restaurants, the whole thing. we love it. but we also do things like our visionaries issue because our readers want a context. they want to know what's happening in places where we travel. "the new york times," it's no secret to you, newspapers are hemorrhaging money and closing bureaus all over the world. "the new york times" has 24 foreign buyers. they have got one of the only fully staffed bureaus in kabul. they have 75 editors on their foreign desk here in new york. jill abrahamson, the executive editor, is committed they are not going to diminish that coverage. so you know, we can't rely on arianna huffington, who knows what's going to happen to the "new york post." right now "the new york times" as far as we're concerned is really bringing the world the news. >> so many others are

newspapers, just have gotten rid of their staff. you're right. the "huffington post" is great, other underlying are great. it would take anybody years to build up that sort of staff. you also talk about 22 trips of a lifetime on here. one of them that caught my attention, sweden, talking about splitting time between stockholm and also going out to play with reindeer. >> that's right. that trip can be yours at an incredible discount. seriously, we have a number of really fantastic travel agents we partnered with. >> do you really? >> they have gone through a really, really rigorous vetting process. so we go to them and we say, create a trip of a lifetime and give us at least 30% off so we can offer it to our readers. so there are limited quantities. but this is quite a wish list. >> i'm going to name another

city here that i have heard so many people -- i don't get out often but i talk to people who do. i have heard so many people saying that prague is such a great city to visit. it's special. >> i've heard them say that, too. >> i've been to prague. >> i've never talked to anybody -- >> twenty years ago when you could get a five course meal for five bucks in a beautiful spot, it was even better after the cold war. to go on that river at night and have a beer in that city, the people are awesome. it is a great place. >> it is a beautiful city. i guess architecture. >> it wasn't bombed. >> spared a lot of the horrors of the 20th century. >> yeah. >> that's one of your trips. also greece. what's it like to visit greece now? >> our editor in chief just came back. she had an amazing time. >> i ask that. a lot of turmoil.

maybe some people scared away by riots. >> a lot of people have been scared away. the greek people really rely on tourism. the turmoil is really localized. people need to go. the greeks are welcoming and they need us. tourists generally aren't affected by any of the turmoil that's going on. you might be affected by a strike if one is held. >> the french do that all the time. >> french do that all the time. >> finally africa, botswana, another continent i hear. it's great to visit. >> botswana, a phenomenal place. back to visionaries. he wants to wean the country off its reliance on diamonds. he's doing it by developing high-end tourism and agriculture. i understand prince harry is there right now with his squeeze of the moment. i don't remember her name. >> there will be another one next week. thank you, alex, for that line.

if the president of botswana has a problem with diamonds, we'll take some off his hands. we'll go back them up. >> he doesn't have a problem with diamonds. he wants a sustainable economy and one day those diamonds will run out. >> september issue of conde nast hits news stands today. kevin doyle, thank you very much. good to see you. on tomorrow's show from the new film the butler. any last requests mr. baldwin? do you mind grabbing my phone and opening the capital one purchase eraser? i need to redeem some venture miles before my demise. okay. it's easy to erase any recent travel expense i want. just pick that flight right there. mmm hmmm. give it a few taps, and...it's taken care of. this is pretty easy, and i see it works on hotels too. you bet. now if you like that, press the red button on top.

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actually i got most from buzz feed staff and the internet was why not use snap chat? >> i don't have a good answer to that. >> i love that. >> welcome back to "morning joe." talking about what we learned today. mika, a couple of days ago, we learned that relationships between grandparents and grandchildren. >> makes you less mentally ill. >> justin bieber you learned today is cashing in on that. >> he performs for his grandmother like this. >> i don't understand. >> so the daily news, very interesting. i think this is going around with all the kids in hollywood. they all watch "morning joe" and know a good relationship with your grandparents makes you healthy. lady gaga doing the same thing for her grandfather.

it's fantastic. these people, these kids care about their grandparents. how do you top that? >> you can't top that. i'm just glad my grandmother is long gone because i wouldn't be doing that for her. >> we're all glad about that, too. >> anthony weiner could take a page out of clinton, if the next month is palatable, just be charming, smile. >> it's impossible. >> lets wrap up the show. none of you are very good right now. >> who is going to be in for chuck today? >> chuck works less than i do. he's not there? all right. alexander. thanks for watching. >> frisky business. new york leaders lash out at a court ruling against much debated stop and frisk policies. the fate of the police practice could have national implications. meantimeth