what could we ever do to affect something that big? well, i'm happy to say that the smartest guy in this building, the smartest guy in this whole business i work in, i think, has figured it out. it is chris hayes, and he has a new documentary, i don't want to spoil it. but msnbc's new documentary is really good and premiers tomorrow on msnbc. plan to watch it, and i'll see you after. now it is time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. president obama addressed the crisis in egypt as the state of emergency continues there tonight. >> america cannot determine the future of egypt. that is a task for the egyptian people. >> president obama weighed in on the escalating violence in egypt. >> the egyptian people deserve better. >> the country is now under a month-long state of emergency. the muslim brotherhood is

encouraging protesters to take to the streets again. >> our traditional cooperation cannot continue. >> he is cancelling this military exercise. >> we are cancelling our bi-annual joint military exercise. the cycle of violence and escalation needs to stop. >> let's get you up to speed, a lot has gone on. >> they successfully recovered the black boxes. >> bradley manning took the stand at his sentencing hearing. >> today is day two. >> there are mixed signals, i'm focusing on the ground game, obviously on our digital and data program. addressing the primary system that is a total disaster. >> we continue to follow the developing news from egypt. >> the situation on the ground remains extremely volatile. >> the egyptian people deserve better. >> the cycle of violence and escalation needs to stop.

>> egypt's health ministry has put the official death toll from the violence and protesters at 368 people killed. and both sides believe the number will go up after the worst civil violence in the modern history of the world's most populous arab state. today, they stormed and torched a building in cairo. egypt's spokesperson said that the ministry was authorized to stop the attacks on anymore government buildings, churches, state buildings as family members sorted through hundreds of bodies of victims. secretary of defense chuck hagel called his egyptian counterpart today and told him that the violence is putting our relations at risk. and president obama cancelled a planned exercise with egypt.

>> our situation cannot continue as violence continues in the street. this morning we notified the egyptian government know we are cancelling our bi-annual joint military exercise which was scheduled for next month. going forward i have asked the national security team to assess the implications of the actions taken by the interim government. and further steps we must take as necessary with respect to the u.s./egyptian relationship. >> joining me now from cairo is nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel, richard? >> reporter: there may be difficult days ahead. this was clearly a warning today from the egyptian military. authorizing the security forces to use deadly force to protect themselves and "key installations." but undeterred, the muslim brotherhood called for a massive demonstration tomorrow and already picked out a location in

downtown cairo. egyptian forces loyal to the military were cleaning the site today at the place where the forces were gunned down yesterday. some came out to thank to military for the crackdown. >> i thanked anybody who supported us to get rid of the terrorism. we saw it in the streets the past year. >> reporter: the government is trying to justify all the violence and death. the foreign ministry today distributed videos to journalists, including this one, allegedly showing protesters with automatic weapons. there is still a lot of cleanup to do. but can egypt just sweep away what many say is a massacre that took place here. the muslim brotherhood lost the battle, but the group is promising more protests, which could mean more scenes like this. and now the brotherhood has

martyrs to revenge. >> we will not stop. >> reporter: at the mosque, hundreds of bodies were lined up for collection, blocks of ice to keep them cold. the carpet wet, the air filled with freshener to mask the smell, families distraught and overwhelmed. this woman searches for her son, 19. she has a photo from school. he went to the protests yesterday, but never came home. he may be here, but i can't tell. collapsed on a chair, she doesn't need to look further. at her feet, her 27-year-old husband shot in the head, father of her toddler. she has no job or money. i pray to god to give me strength, she said. egypt may have overstepped in its crackdown but it is not showing signs of remorse.

and tonight the mosque with the bodies inside was actually raided by egyptian police who used tear gas to break up the crowds. they took the bodies. >> richard, we saw some people voicing support in your report for the government's crackdown. is there a way to gauge how much support the muslim brotherhood has now versus the government? >> reporter: it is very difficult to know. the muslim brotherhood certainly has millions of people who support it. and with all of the bloodshed, it certainly is convincing -- a part of the society to join in solidarity. it does not have the overwhelming majority of support, but to have an insurgency, to have an overwhelming problem, you don't need more than a few thousand, let alone a few million people who are angry and grieving, and some of whom are armed. so you can fairly estimate their

support is large, a few million in a country of about 90 million. >> and is it your sense that this kind of crackdown actually increases their support? >> reporter: not necessarily. because there is a massive media campaign under way in this country, almost every egyptian has televisions. a lot of people in the united states talk about twitter and the influence of facebook. this is still very much a television society. and a mobile phone. and there is a campaign under way by the government on television to demonize the muslim brotherhood, 24 hours a day on chat programs and programs like yours, all the guests would be -- not saying yours, but if this were egypt, all the guests on the program would be talking against the muslim brotherhood and trying to shape the thinking in this country about the group, describing them as a terrorist organization. people who are trying to bring down the country. and that does have an impact. so i think the longer this goes on, the more there is violence.

the more the media campaign continues the more there is an opportunity to ostracize the muslim brotherhood, but not among their supporters. they will continue to say there is propaganda against them, they will continue to feel victimized. and like what happened yesterday and today, because people continued to be killed, they will say there are martyrs to revenge. >> richard, thank you for great reporting again. joining me now, mark ginsburg, and steve clemens, washington editor at large for "the atlantic." steve, what was your reaction to the statement today by president obama? >> well, i think finally it was a small step, a very meager step, but nonetheless in the right direction of at least sending a message to the generals that what was under way was unacceptable. i have offered a stronger

signal, offered much earlier than the president did. so i give him credit for finally moving. but i suspect it was not nearly soon enough. given what we saw in these last days. >> i want to read a statement that rand paul issued today. he is a member of the senate foreign relations committee. he said while president obama condemns the violence in egypt, his administration continues to send taxpayer dollars to help it. the law is very clear when a coup takes place, the aid must stop. with thousands injured and some dead this week. the chaos continues to grow, the president needs to stop skirting the issue, follow the law and stop sending aid to egypt. ambassador, how would you respond to that? >> well, i must say the fact that we continue to send aid as if it is business as usual is a mistake. let's not be fooled into believing the aid has leverage

over the egyptian military it does not. if it had, they would not have acted. we would have already warned about it. we could have suspended the aid, and dispatched secretary kerry to start to deal with the action, which the military desperately needs in order to create the facade that it has support within the newly created government. i'll finish the comment by saying that the general, probably if i were in his shoes, was pretty pleased with the obama administration's response. >> to follow up on that, ambassador, why would he be pleased with that response? >> because we could have been far more evevindictive and punitive, we could have called it a coup, even though it would have been silly to do it before. and we could have suspended aid. we could have been more prepared to take action for our own principles, in order to stand up

for our own principles in the middle east as a country that supports democratic change. and yet at the same time, the administration could have easily taken that step. and it would not have had any real impact one way or the other on the military's decision, which is going to make a difference among the egypt goldsmith military is how the political leadership of egypt addresses the consequences of their actions. we already saw that the vice president resigned in the face of these attacks. the civilian authorities in egypt are in effect, the lynchpin to the future regarding the military, to garner support of the population. >> but steve, doesn't that come up to the dilemma that no matter who is president, in the face of these situations, if we react too sharply, basically, that we then cut off our ability to continue the relationship. and we risk the future of the relationship?

>> well, you know, i think as i said earlier on msnbc today, i think this is a lot like tiannamen, but that happened in a time where there was not cell phones or twitter or networks organizing the opposition. the united states did impose very serious steps against china, and did take steps that he just outlined. but nevertheless, we need egypt, we need to be engaged with egypt. but there should have been a very serious price imposed in the leadership after they deposed morsi. it is not necessarily seen by the world as being pro-democratic, the big issue is keeping the group, choosing a political and largely a

non-violent tract, becoming pursuears of violence. this is being watched not only inside egypt, but i do agree with mark and also richard engel of how the government is trying to propagandaize. tunisia, jordan, everybody is watching to see how we handle it. we kind of botched it, but they're waiting to see what we do. i agree with mark, it is at a very serious point where the american credibility is at a very serious point. if you don't change the outreach for those who believe in political islam and giving them opportunities on a democratic tract, then i think the arab spring has died. and we will not have an opportunity -- we'll see

instability throughout the region for generations. >> ambassador ginsburg, before we go, what would your recommendation be to president obama, given the actions of today and what is in front of him? >> i would have suspended aid and dispatch secretary kerry to cairo to meet with the leadership. as well as send a message to the brotherhood that the united states remains politically engaged to try to form some consensus. i couldn't agree more with steve, the last thing we want to see is back in the '80s, where a state of emergency was created by hosni mubarak, and it became an opposition, solidfiying the opposition, steve is absolutely right, i couldn't agree more.

>> thank you very much for joining me tonight. >> thank you. coming up, the republicans have a new dream attempt of presidential debate moderators, rush limbaugh, sean hannity, and mark levine. they're serious. and later, rand paul says who the greatest defender of minority rights is. but he is not very worried about voting rights. and bravo, andy cohen just turned down a job hosting a tv show in russia in protest of russia's anti-gay laws. we raise black and red angus cattle. we also produce natural gas. that's how we make our living and that's how we can pass the land and water back to future generations. people should make up their own mind what's best for them. all i can say is it has worked well for us.

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bradley manning spoke for three minutes yesterday in the sentencing phase of his trial after being convicted of charges that could result in up to 90 years in prison. our link will have a more complete version of what he said. he began with an apology. first, your honor, i want to

start off with an apology. i am sorry that my actions hurt people. i'm sorry that they hurt the united states. i understood what i was doing and decisions i made. however, i did not fully appreciate the broader effects of my actions. i am sorry for the unintended consequences of my actions. when i made these decisions, i believed i was going to help people, not hurt people. the last few years has been a learning experience about my decisions. i wondered how i, a junior analyst, possibly believed i could change the world for the better on decisions of those with the proper authority. in retrospect, i should have used those actions. unfortunately, i can't go back and change things. i must go forward, but i understand i must pay a price for my decisions and actions.

we'll be right back.

the georgetown student who went before the congress the committee and said she was having sex and was going broke buying condoms and wants us to buy them. listen, what would you call somebody who wants us to pay? for her to have sex? what would you call that woman? >> now, there is a republican presidential debate question for you. what would you call that woman. that is right, republicans are now leaning toward having right wing radio talk show host rush limbaugh, sean hannity, and mark levine moderate their presidential debate. >> i actually think it is a very good idea, i think partnering with talk radio, there is a lot of good people out there that can actually understand the base

of the republican party, parse that out in a way that actually provides substance to the republican party primary voters and what they actually want to talk about. >> today, rush limbaugh said his moderating the debate is a wonderful idea, but it is not without its problems. >> to me, sean hannity and mark levine would moderate the republican primary debate, and i think i would overshadow that, i'm too famous. >> joining us, howard dean, you are the expert on the presidential debates since you have actually been up there. how much does difference does the moderator make? >> they make a big difference, they ask the questions, when these guys get in the same room they go absolutely crazy and

will say really crazy stuff. so it is true that john cain would ask them questions that they would get in a general election. what sean hannity and rush limbaugh, other than making the questions about themselves, would be foam at the mouth, i hate women and gays, and that is exactly what lost mitt romney the election. >> well, one of the people they talked about, mark levine, has already said he is against chris christie, so he already declared himself against one of the possible candidates who would be on the stage. but it is also kind of inconceivable to me if rush limbaugh, if he was up there, wouldn't engage in the debate himself. i wouldn't at the end of the answer say that is wrong and make his argument. >> well, if you look at the talk show hosts, to be fair, most talk show hosts on both sides, particularly the right wingers.

it is mostly about them. they are probably incapable of moderating the debate. the debate would be about them. i can see the question now, don't you think that so and so in the republican party is soft on immigrants because they might let them have citizenship in 400 years? and oh, yeah, it should be 600! this is what we want. >> let's listen to the kind of moment that the republican party fears. this is wolf blitzer during one of the debates last time had this follow-up question. we're going to listen to this. >> but congressman, are you saying that society should just let him die? >> no -- >> so dr. dean, there -- is wolf blitzer saying are you saying that society should just let someone die, basically because they don't have health insurance and can't get it. and that is precisely the kind of thing that they want to keep out of this debate. >> this is not the right way --

look, far be it for me to give the republicans any advice on how to moderate themselves. but you know what happens when a bunch of like-minded people, who can gin themselves up, get in a am radio. they try to outdo each other, each one tries to be more right wing than the other. that is not where america is. america is not where the republican is, that is the problem. i think they will find that out in 2016. >> let's listen to one of the very memorable, important questions that brett baier asked at one of these debates. >> ten to one, as byron said, spending cuts, to tax increases -- speaker, you're already shaking your head, but who on this speech would walk away from this deal? raise your hand, if you feel so

strongly you would walk away from taxes -- >> it was that famous raise your hand moment. and it seems to me, what that shows is there really won't be a way for them to manage to have completely safe debates. no matter who they end up choosing. >> yeah, they want to do this, they will have no debates whatsoever. which of course is not going to be permitted. because what happens is, the truth is cnn will not get stopped. what will happen is they will offer the debate, the pressure will be on the people in the top two or three slots, accepted as well. it worked that way when i was the dnc chair. you want control what the media says or does or even your own candidate. so this is all silliness, in truth, it is fun to speculate on what it would be like to watch rush limbaugh moderate debates as to whether or not women are

sluts if they take birth control, no matter what the rnc says. >> former governor howard dean, thank you very much for joining me tonight. >> thank you. >> coming up, big surprise, rand paul and hillary clinton have very different views on voter rights in this country. and in the rewrite, the lessons i learned watching the funniest political chat show in history. the mclaughlin group, the show saturday night live kept coming back to for the comedy gold. that is coming up. go woman: 'i can't.' hero : that's what expedia asked me. host: book the flight but you have to go right now. hero: (laughs) and i just go? this is for real right? this is for real? i always said one day i'd go to china, just never thought it'd be today. anncr: we're giving away a trip every day. download the expedia app and your next trip could be on us. expedia, find yours.

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i think there is no greater defender, truly of minority rights, if you include minorities to be color of your skin or the color of your ideology, than myself. >> yes, rand paul actually said that on the npr interview last week. the great defender of minority rights is apparently not worried about the voter id rights. at an event, rand paul said the interesting thing about the voting patterns now is in this last election, african-americans voted at a higher percentage than whites in almost every one of the states that were under the professions of the federal government. i don't think there is objective evidence that we're precluding african americans from voting any longer. hillary clinton respectfully disagrees. >> we've seen a sweeping effort

across our country to obstruct new obstacles to voting, often under the cover of the election fraud. not every obstacle is related to race, but anyone who says that racial discrimination is no longer a problem in american electi elections must not be paying attention. >> joining me now is msnbc's joy reid and karen finlis finney, k have to read these words to you. i think there is no greater defender of minority rights, that is who rand paul thinks he is. >> yes, he is the savior, forget martin luther king jr., rand paul is here. and he goes on to the argument, uses the same argument that we essentially heard from john

roberts, which of course doesn't actually address the real problem, simply because more people turned out does not mean, as we know, there are not disparities in voting. we know that in the last elections, african-americans tended to wait longer. we know that in addition to the state voter id laws, and same-day voting and registrations, we know all of those things, the african-americans, latinos, all of those situations still existed. and those were the things that erected those barriers. >> rand paul said i don't see a problem with showing your driver's license to vote. i also think that some people are stuck in the past when they want to compare it. there was a time in the south when african-americans were prohibited from voting because of the bizarre literacy tests. that was wrong, that is why we need the voter rights. but that is not showing your id.

joy, what would you like to say to rand paul. >> after thanking him, no greater champion. the thing that is ironic about the statement that rand paul made, look at how many of you voted. what do you want? there are no more literacy tests, come on. it is what the republicans do in reacting, they adjust, each time they do they adjust in a way that just so happens to make it harder for people, for democrats, to vote, and makes it harder on the younger people. when you register to vote, you have to prove who you are. you can't just walk off the street without proving who you are certifying as to your identity. the problem with the id, it costs money, whether you have to travel great distances to get

there. the people happen to be the same minorities, the same voters that the republicans would rather not show up in big numbers. >> if rand paul were really such the big defender, he would recognize -- it is not about an id. this is about protecting the constitutional right. tea party folks love the talk about the constitution. we're talking about protecting a constitutional right. we're talking about erecting more barriers, more regulations by the way, which they're supposed to be opposed to. and you know, the thing he also clearly does not remember his history. this full phantom issue of voter fraud, as joy said, the gop gets very creative. after they went through selma and saw what happened to people with the hoses and kept getting beaten, they realized oh, we want keep beating people when -- can't keep beating people when they're standing in line.

that is where this voter fraud issue started. >> and they were doing the literacy tests and the how many jelly beans in the jar. their argument was the same basically as rand paul. we're not saying you can't vote, we're just saying you have to tell us how many jelly beans there are in the jar. it is ironic that he is making the exact same argument now. >> karen, what do we make about the statistical evidence, where the african-american vote was organized to fight that d discouragement. we did see that the african-american voters waited in line almost double the time of white voters. so the attempt to discourage was well instructed but it doesn't seem in the end to have worked. >> well, that is exactly right. and in the end, it probably increased the african-american and latino voter turnout for president obama. because remember when they were

interviewing people who were waiting in the lines for six, seven, eight, nine hours, they basically said hell, no, you're not taking away my vote. i deserve this. i earned i it. so they essentially created a movement of people who said because they're trying to stop us from voting. but it is part of the republican rhetoric to convince us that this problem is all in our minds, right? it is just about an id. there is no discrimination. you know, we're just making it up. >> joy reid, and karen finney, thank you for joining us. and karen before you go, i have two words for you, happy birthday. >> okay, thank you. >> go party. thank you. coming up, russia's anti-gay laws and what job that andy cohen has turned down, andy cohen taking a stand against the ant

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the first time i saw jack german was on the political chat show. he was the guy who looked like a political reporter, straight out of central casting, meaning for people like me who didn't know any reporters, that is what we thought those guys looked like, jack described himself as "a fat guy who looked unkempt, even in a fresh shirt." that was the only political show i watched in the 1980s because i didn't have any political interest at that time. i watched for the same reason that others watched the show. it was really funny. and snl didn't have to exaggerate much when they

imitated the mclaughlin group. >> on a scale of one to ten, how would you rate the buchanan campaign? >> i would say about a five! >> wrong. >> that of course was the great chris farley, delivering a typically short jack germand voice. here is jack's concise prediction. in 1991, of the effect of the first gulf war on the next presidential election. >> a year from now, about the time of the first caucus and the primary, the middle east and this war will be no more than tenth on the list of issues of concern to americans. >> and of course, jack was right. president bush came out of that first gulf war with an 89% approval rating but then went on to lose to bill clinton in the

next presidential election. jack never fought his way through on the mclaughlin group the way the other panelists did. he just sat there knowing he was not getting paid there by the word. and every second he sat there silently while everyone else was arguing all i cared about was what does jack think? it was as if jack knew what the sma smartest actors know, the power of silence, the longer the silence, the more we wonder what you're thinking. jack was actually my model when i eventually took a seat on the mclaughlin group for a few years. i was always the last one to speak after john mclaughlin announced issue one. and i almost always said less than anyone else on the show. join would always complain to me about that when i arrived to do the show. he would say the word content in the transcript showed i said less than anyone else. and the show said i want to hear

more from o'donnell. that is exactly what i wanted the audience to say. i don't think he got it. jack germond was not consciously following that rule, but that is what he did, he always left the audience wanting more. his wife sent the e-mail with the memo, jack is gone. he went peacefully and quickly after just completing this novel, a tale he had pondered, while writing a memoir. he lived a marvelous, full, and well-loved life. i know he was a great reporter and i know he was a hearty eater. and yes, he enjoyed extending an evening. he had a bold journalistic ethic. and that matters. he was fortunate to spend his life working at a job he would have done for free during some

halcyon times in the newspaper business. jack indeed played the horses, always studying the form. and hoping for that elusive triple crown winner. but there was no such thing as a bad day at the track. he fit his life and times so very well. i love him, and it has been great. in 2001, jack told people magazine "now a days, reporters drink white wine and eat salas.s they go to the gym and eat salads and we never did that. he lived a rich, full 85 years and always left the audience wanting more. y ease arthritis symptoms.

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before russia hosts the 2014 winter olympics in sochi, it will host the ms. universe

pageant in moscow, and because of that it is in need of a new co-host. andy cohen turned down what would have been his third stint as host, because of their pol y policies. he said that their policies make it unsafe for gays and gays coming to live and work there. the law that anybody there as a homosexual can be arrested, i didn't feel right as a gay man stepping foot in russia. this is the first time russia will be hosting the ms. universe pageant, and there is no word on who will take his place on the program which will be hosted on msnbc. the petition for removing the pageant from there has received 16,000 signatures. joining me, jonathan capehart, are you free on november 9th, to

host the ms. universe contest? >> yes, i am, but i probably would take the same stand as andy cohen, if in the unlikely event they would ask me to host it. >> you know, it got terrible ratings, 1.8 million in the demo, you used to get cancelled off msnbc if your demo went below 3 million people. i mean, this is a headache they don't need. and andy cohen is employed by msnbc. so he is not only taking a stand against russia, but against the company. >> right, it is a principle stand. and we all have those moments when we have to decide you know, whether our employer or our employment is larger than whatever obligations we have. if there is an issue there. and this law in russia, i think -- andy and i agree with him. you know, you have got people

who are being harassed for who they are. andy cohen is openly gay, he doesn't feel comfortable going to a country where people are h oppressed for being gay, and the law is so vague that if maybe walking down the street with your partner could get you arrested, nobody wants to put themselves in personal jeopardy. and i think andy cohen taking the position he has is a principled one. but it also sheds even more light on how unjust these laws are. >> and it shows you the pressures that are coming on these companies that are dealing with russia now. and nbc already is under a lot of pressure because they're going to have the olympics. and they have already got the olympic problem in the sports division. now the entertainment division has a problem with this goofy

one-night show that they put on that is worth nothing to them. it is an amazing waste of energy to get this pathetic rating it gets, now they are risking this type of controversy. >> you know, the olympics are a thorny issue, and the role in this, let's talk about the people who train for years to get to the ultimate -- their ultimate athletic stage. and that is the olympics. do you really want to force those olympians to not go to russia? i think something has to happen where the international olympic committee and russia have to come to some sort of agreement to allow, or i should say at least to not have gay and lesbian olympians not be wh harassed or arrested for who

they are innately, because of who they are. there has to be some sort of accommodation. >> i'm with george good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. tonight on "all in" as the smoke clears from yesterday's deadly crackdown in egypt, the horrible human toll is revealed and the world decides how to react. we'll go back live to cairo in just a moment. also tonight, shocking video posted to the web gives a disturbing glimpse into the current situation for gays living in russia. as the outrage grows and olympics draw near, is there any way this doesn't become a full-blown firestorm? that plus my special documentary on climate change will be airing in this hour tomorrow night. tonight we'll give you a sneak preview of the politics of power.