thank you citi book for proving not only me but so many other wrong but reminding us of what we have in common. at the end of the day we're all riding the same bi-cycle. joy reid is in today for martin bashir. >> well played, abby. good afternoon. it's thursday, august 22nd, and the president is talking middle-class 101. ♪ it is good to be back in buffalo, good to be back in new york. i've been out there talking about what we need to do as a country to make sure we've got a better bargain for the middle class. it's a struggle for a lot of folks. reversing this trend is my highest priority. i've got to say it's not always washington's priority. a good job with good wages, a good education, a home of your own, cornerstones of what it

means to be middle class. what's become a barrier, the soaring cost of higher education. this country is only as strong as our next generation. if you work hard, study hard, and are responsible, here in america, you can make it if you try. even as this pecks increasingly crucial to get into the middle class, the cost of a college education is going further and further out of reach. with the average student borrower graduating more than $26,000 in dead. at the university of buffalo today, the president said that has to change.

>> higher education is still the best ticket to upward mobility. if we don't do something about keeping it within reach, it will create problems for economic mobility for generations to come. that's not acceptable. to help make that change hahn happen, the president is propose a plan to tie federal aid to the schools offering, using a variety of metrics to reward the schools helping students from all -- if enacted it would be the biggest change since 1965. but as the president noted, that could be a big if. >> we've seen a faction of republicans in congress that suggest that maybe america shouldn't pay its bills that have already been run up, that we should shut down government if they can't shut down obamacare. we can't afford in washington the usual circus of distraction shuns and political posturing.

what we need is to build on the cornerstones of what it means to be middle class in america. >> meanwhile, the usual circus continues, as senator ted cruz tours the nation, calling for the defunding 6 obamacare. congress mast louie gohmert -- and some republicans are even suggesting that instead of threatening to shut down the government it shall a "the washington post" as ezra klein likened to trading the flu for septic shock. karen finney, host of "disrupt" right here is democratic congressman charlie rangel. i want to start with you and get to the whole budget fight in a moment, but first i want your reaction to the president's education proposal today. >> i think it's exciting and certainly -- we have universities scattered all over

the world, sometimes you think that tuition means nothing to a large group of people who pay these enormous salaries to college presidents. but if you're talking about production, if you're talking about what is the college really giving someone that doesn't want a worldwide education, they just want to be able to compete, this makes sense, but you know something, joy? there is no reason why a young person should have to pay for college education, because whoa does it benefit except a nation? who are we competing against? not ourselves, but china and other industrialized countries, they decide what they need, and they provide the incentives. >> right. >> here we don't have nurses and doctors, and then when a person gets out of medical school they could get the money to pay off the debt. >> given the logic, is there a chance this gets anywhere in the house of representatives where you serve?

>> america has spoken. i refuse to admit a handful of people can dictate to the republican party taking down the whole country. at first i didn't believe as a political matter they wouldn't do it, but i saw what they did before. they're ready to damage our international credibility financially, to make certain that they're reelected from the house of representatives districts. that is sad. until we hear the voices of those getting richer, and because of a middle class that's failing. until our religious leaders recognize that the programs of health care and education are biblical as well as making sense, america is not going to commit suicide just because the republican party decided to do it. >> and karen, i think the conversation makes an excellent point. it does seem almost suicidal

to -- i want to read something that ezra klein wrote in "the washington post" about the current threat -- trading a government shutdown for a dead ceiling breach is like trading the flu for septic shock. the former is an inconvenience, the latter is a global crisis. is it your sense that the republicans are willing to trigger that kind of crisis? the problem is we have a large enough cadre of the tea party republicans are willing to do it. john boehner and company can't stop it. they're further legitimized by senator ted cruz. for a while, you know, it was those guys in the house and now we have also have some senators who are likeminded. yes, i think there are enough people who are that ideological to create that damage the i would say from a strategic standpoint, my sumps is they're making the guess that shutting down 9 government, that people can understand in a way when you talk about raising the del

ceiling, it's a few more steps to explain why that's such a disaster. so again my assumption is they're thinking just from a pure messaging standpoint that it would be easier to say, you know, we're holding the debt ceiling, you know, because we're trying to be tough in a way that doesn't quite sound to average americans as devastating, even though it would be, as ezra points out, more devastating. >> somebody needs to explain economics. congressman, i do want to get your opinion on syria. obviously alarming reports about potential chemical weapons. you've been relund can't to get the u.s. further involved there. give me your take, and has your view changed about what the u.s. should be doing? >> not at all. every time there's a breakout in hostilities or combat or violence, it seems as though they come to america, and without going to the congress,

the president's, republican or democrat, said we are going to introduce troops. well, i know where those troops are. they come from the poorer communities in our great country. i know, i've been in one of these things. having said that, syria is important not only to the united states, but to the region. it would seem to me that that's why we have a united nations. i don't see the united states telling the egyptians what to do, the syrians what to do. they've got major problems and how that ends up, so will the world be impacted, especially israel. having said that, why not take this to the united nations? why not have the european union and the arab countries come and say this is not a united states problem alone? we all take more than our share of the responsibility action but to take all of it, it just doesn't make sense. >> important views, thank you congressman, a combat veteran as well. thank you.

as well as karen finney. i want to remind you you can catch karen every saturday and sunday right here at 4:00 p.m. on msnbc. coming up, the reverend jesse jackson talks about voting rights and the anniversary march on washington. later, a lesson in courage and compassion in the face of gun violence from one very tough woman. do not let anybody in the building, including the police. >> okay. stay on the line with me, ma'am. >> i'm in the front office. he ran outside and started shooting. >> okay. (announcer) at scottrade, our clients trade and invest exactly how they want. with scottrade's online banking, i get one view of my bank and brokerage accounts with one login... to easily move my money when i need to. plus, when i call my local scottrade office, i can talk to someone who knows how i trade. because i don't trade like everybody. i trade like me.

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it's been 50 years since the march on washington for jobs and freedom, and 48 years since the

voting rights act, though you might not always be able to tell. today attorney general, holder announced the justice department would file a new lawsuit against texas over the strict voter i.d. law. and in north carolina retired general colin powell, a republican, used the speech in an economic forum in front of that state's governor to bash north carolina's recently passed law which not only hurts minority and poor voters, but also eliminates preregistration initiatives for high school students. joining us now to discuss, reverend jesse jackson sr. welcome, sir. >> i'm thinking about marching in 1965, the same forces that lined up against democrat advertised democracy then, they're like wolfs in sheep clothing. they're not fundamentally changed. let us not forget in '40 and '65, no women were on the supreme court.

plaques couldn't vote, 18-year-olds couldn't vote. those serving in vietnam, you couldn't vote on college campuses, could not vote biracially, and women could not serve on juries thy about minus those categories of people, you have a real different america. >> absolutely those remembrances are important, because we will be commemorating the march, and obviously the "i have a dream" speech. give us a sense of how far the country has gone forward and whether you're alarmed by some of the attempts by conservatives to roll back those very gains from that era implts there's cause for alarm, but we're a different america. the dream in '63 a black soldier had to sit behind -- in the

military bases beneath the american flag -- we could not buy ice cream at howard johnson's d.c. had an appointed mayor they could not vote, not to mention not in the congress. so we lived in humiliation. so that speech that day was about overcoming the degradation. we won that battle. in '64, the dream was -- making it legal. we respect the '65 dream was about the right to vote. then open housing, we finally won that battle. then dr. king's last drive was in excess of military investment and revive the war on poverty at home. we've not won that battle. we still have americans in poverty and we still have vast expenditures on war. he says if you keep choosing war investment over feeding the war, you're approaches moral bankruptcy. >> and reverend jackson, you talked about the components of the dream, but it is also

specifically about jobs, and i'm wondering about your sense of whether the african-american community has shared, in your view, enough in the economic recovery modest though it has been? >> well, we have not. the fact is we've lost. we've lost more public housing. we've lost more private housing. we've lost more hospitals. we've lost more -- we're the big losers in all of this. we bail out the banks that drove subprime lending. so banks with the subprime lending schemes, they made money because of lack of oversight, they made money on the bailout and on private mortgage investment. they got away like real thieves. the people vacant homes, abandoned lots, and urban reconstruction plan to regain. if you in fact were to rebuild, say, chicago, half of those houses back. you would neat to do retrofitting, use solar, and you

would put people back to work by restructuring where they actually live. at this point, there is no such comprehensive plan and there needs to be a way of creating jobs bottom up, not top down. >> excellent points, but i feel i would be remiss if he didn't address the story of chris lane, the young australian man who was shot to death allegedly by three teenagers who are acting, quote, out of -- the right first said you didn't respond none, and then the tweet -- the senseless violence is frowned upon. can you respond. >> you know, last year we went out to oklahoma city, where two young white men shot five and killed three. we went out there to meet with leadership to not allow it to become a riot, and of course we have a case here of another three young men killing this young baseball player. it's all morally wrong.

it's all too violent, and all needs to be stopped. i think about the young man who drove the car in the last killing, he's out walking around, the other two have been charged, but one of the fruits of the state becoming so violent, the most access to guns is a factor in this rising violence. i hope we will all see that it is not right what these young men did was flat-out wrong and sick. what happened that june last year was wrong and sick. >> do you think that some on the right are making a false equivalency between this shooting, this death, and the trayvon martin case? >> yes. they want to connect what happened in the tray done martin case with these three young men on this foolish rampage killing this ballplayer, and not -- they seem to have forgotten when two whites went looking for somebody

to kill, just a year ago, just last june, june the 5th, and killed three and shot five. that is really more of an equivalent, but it's not -- there is no -- there are no winners in any of this sickness, it says something about that we need to learn to live together and not just try to survive apart, and simply in our country there's just too much violence and too much hate. we need to all address it. it's not just reverend sharp and i. where are the other ministers who live in oklahoma? why are they so silent in this growing madness? >> thank you so much, reverend. >> thank you, joy. rachel is live from north carolina on the impact of the new voting rights law there, and that's tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. also a reminder to watch msnbc's week-long coverage of the 50th anniversary of the march on washington beginning tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern on

"p "politics nation." a segment where i agree with rush limbaugh, ted cruz, and sarah palin, sort of. [ male announcer ] this is brad. his day of coaching begins with knee pain, when... [ man ] hey, brad, want to trade the all-day relief of two aleve for six tylenol? what's the catch? there's no catch. you want me to give up my two aleve for six tylenol? no. for my knee pain, nothing beats my aleve.

help keep teeth clean and breath play close.fresh and close. with beneful healthy smile food. with special crunchy kibbles and great taste... ...it's a happy way to a healthy smile. new beneful healthy smile food and snacks we're going to keep fighting to make sure that this remains a country if you work hard, study hard and responsible, you are rewarded. that was the president today extolling the virt ties of hard work and personal responsibility. now, of course, this become president obama, don't expect folks on the right to jump up and applaud, which is interesting, particularly when you listen to a clip from a another speech to young people delivered by another famous american and major democratic donor. and the democratic party last year. the video of this speech has

gone viral and earned instant praise from some of the biggest names on the right. >> every job i had was a steppingstone to my next job. i never quit my job until i had my next job. and so opportunities look a lot like work. >> good to see his iowa roots shining through, sarah palin posted to facebook. remarkable speech, tweeted senator ted cruz. what he said was right on, gushed rush limbaugh. you know what? i agree with all of them. it was a remarkable spot-on speech, but here's my question. how is what ashton kutcher said different from what president obama said and has repeatedly said about hard work, getting an education as the way to success. even more than that, why does the right think they own the idea of hard work and personal responsibility? does the fact that ashton kutcher, president obama and

millions of others not on the right believe that working hard, being smart maybe conflict with the whole culture of dependency, 47%, makers versus takers narrative? i get the right is a little celebrity starved. who wouldn't rather by associated with ashton kutcher or george clooney instead of an actor talking to a chair. oh, yeah and liberal selects are cooler. deal with it. coming up oh, the lists we keep. the headlines are straight ahead ♪ just to get by ♪ just to get by ♪ just to get by getting your vs every day? when i can. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. two full servings of vegetables for only 50 delicious calories. what are you guys doing? having some fiber! with new phillips' fiber good gummies. they're fruity delicious! just two gummies have 4 grams of fiber!

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it's a reality check. i had my reality check when i'd be sitting there with my friends who had their verizon phones and i'd be sitting there like "mine's still loading!" i couldn't get email. i couldn't stream movies. i couldn't upload any of our music. that's when i decided to switch. now that i'm on verizon, everything moves fast. with verizon, i have that reliability. i'm completely happy with verizon. verizon's 4g lte is the most reliable and in more places than any other 4g network. period. that's powerful. verizon. get the nokia lumia 928 for free. here are today's top lines. guns are the problem. >> we've got a lot of news today. >> chelsea didn't want to have this be something that overshadowed the case. >> this news comes as his

lawyers -- or her lawyers. >> wanted to wait until the case was done. >> do you have any reaction to the christopher lane case. >> this horrific thing that happened in oklahoma. >> was targeted apparently by three african-american young men. >> sing racial? >> i don't think -- >> three african-american young men. >> two blacks, one white. >> any reaction to that? >> where are the civil rights leaders here? >> why hasn't he spoken out on this? >> why haven't we heard from al sharpton, jesse jackson or even other president. >> i don't understand the expectation that the president would be speaking about it irmgts some crimes are more equal about it than others. >> unlike the trayvon martin case, the attackers were immediately arrested. >> some are blaming guns. >> there's one aspect that simply cannot be avoided i want was it racially motivated? >> there are too many guns. >> it's unbelievable you feel this way. >> too much access to guns. >> when the country was settled,

everybody had a gun. >> everyone had to have a machine gun? i want that's what they're after, the names of good, decent people all over this great country who happen to own a firearm. >> i have a lot of concerns about that leading to a registry i want the national registry system for guns. >> people are worried about the government knows where all the guns are. >> a federal database for universal registration of every lawful gun owner in america. >> when la pillier was right about trying to assemble a list of every gun owner in mechanic. >> the worst thing, you're creating a registry. >> but it's not the federal government compiling that list. its wayne la pillier himself and the national rifle association itch. >> what's the point of registering lawful gun owners anyway? okay. let's getting right to our panel. joins us is anna marie katz, and jimy williams. we've had a lot of upset over the fact of the nsa collecting

data, you know, what kind they're collecting, but it turns out there's another organization collecting information, and it's the nra. >> yes, you know, there's a couple different interesting things about this story. one the fact there's a group to the right of the nra that is attacking the nra. >> and the second thing is i think this points at something that is troubling to people that really care about civil liberties and privacy. people usually don't think about the collection of data for commercial or marketing purposes. this is why the nra was correcting this data. so they could fund raise off these people. it is just as bad or just as much an invasion of privacy. you do different things with it, but you know, i'm sort of glad they're calling attention to this. >> jimmy, how did the nra handle just the naked hypocrisy or apparent hypocrisy of railing about collecting information, when they are doing it? i realize you assume that the national rifle association has

morals or any guilt -- i'm telling you that nets of those things exist. this is an interesting thing anna marie just hit on this perfectly. what we have are states and counties that already hold registration information about people who buy weapons in those domiciles, and they are giving this information to the nra, which is a not-for-profit. not the government, not anyone else, but to the nra, and they're using that for commercial purposes. wouldn't it be interesting if gun safety groups went to the same counties, the same states and said you gave all this information to the nra, you now have to give it to us, and -- how do we know there would be a decent response? more than half of nra members support certain types of gun safety. >> they support certain types of gun safety, hone, but they've used this list to lobby against any sort of gun control.

the premise is it would create a national registry of gun owners, so you definite will i have -- but they are collecting the data that would used, right? it makes no sense. >> it totally makes sense if you're the nra. the in their mind i'm sure they don't think of it this way. they're using it to raise money to fight against laws. like the idea of a national gun registry, which is illegal in and of itself. it's been declared illegal several different times as far as i know. i love jimmy's idea. i think there should be a competing gun owner group for people who want to use their guns, which is for the reason -- which is for hunt, for sport. they collect them for whatever reason. i think he's right there's an opportunity -- >> to create a third group. and basically it would be the nra, jimmy, because that's what the nra used to be, it was about sportsmen, about hunting and about the culture. i grew up in colorado.

i knew lots of people and families whose parents had guns, but culturally, it wasn't about displaying them in starbucks and wasn't about the black helicopters, it was about sporting and hunting. >> the nra when i was a child taught gun safety classes, et cetera, et cetera, don't forget george bush xli resigned his membership in the nra because they got away from what they were supposed to be doing, the things we just discussed and got into this issue of conspiracy theories, as you said, black helicopters, et cetera, et cetera. that's a bad thing. if you're out there trying to educate the public on how to handle weapons safely, who not to shoot, including, you know, yourself, go get help if you need that sort of thing, that's a good thing. that's not at all what the nra stands for in the public's mind today, and if that's the case, then their image is worse than what we know, and they're hypocrites on top of that. that's the saddest part. >> let's just say that jimmy's

dream of a third gun ownership organization were to come there true and there would be an advocate for the sane ordinary man on the street gun owner, what do you think realistically they could lobby for in washington. >> those people are pro-gun registries. my father was a lifetime member of the nra who resigned his membership over their response to the sandy hook shootings. he collects guns, he loves to use them properly, and actually he's pointed out if it was as hard to get a gun as it is to get a car, that would be okay with him. i think it would be okay with most people who use their guns less frequently than they use their cars. >> i think we're going to try to dream of a world in which jimy williams' third way, is a reality. thank you both. coming up, the big intelligence leak story of the day, and it doesn't involve brandly manning or, as of today, chelsea manning.

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>> it might be tempting to pay attention to the more sensational intelligence-related story today, that being bradley manning will serve hi maximum 35 years in prison as chelsea manning, because manning was to live his life as a woman, but that is not the most important news on the intelligence front today. on wednesday night the government disclosed documents revealing just how much internet communication the programs capture, including an 81-page 2011 pins by the foreign intelligence court released through the freedom of information act. the redacted court opinion looks like this at times, hour, that

opinion, in that opinion just judge beats found the nsa collection programs in some respects division on stat torrie and constitutional grounds. joins us to discuss kirk icon wad,'s thor of "500 days." welcome back to the program a bit of drama in this opinion. the judge was clearly caught off-gua off-guard, and he wrote this in a footnote, said the court is trouble that the revelation mark the third instance in less than three years in which it's been disclosed in a a -- regarding the scope of a major collection program. >> if they weren't disclosing it properly, no, they need to be more careful about it. there's no sign -- there's no purpose for it.

and, you know, there is a lot in this story that i've been watching how it's being reported. so much of what's being said is just simply wrong independents set the record straight then for us, kirk. that's why i wanted to talk with you. what is the real world view of what is going on? >> well, one of the problems here, and i'll give the details. one of the problems is it's very easy for a lot of folks out there to scream "monster" when somebody comes in and says, no, it's a bear, and it's a bear in a cage, and it's a bear in a cage tess zoo, and suddenly nobody wants to listen anymore, because i'm on the side of the monster. >> what's happening is there's been a lot of articles about an opinion how 56,000 american e-mails have been accepted, and that is an -- and that it was unconstitutional. that is an absolute fantasy, this is not what the opinion says the the problem with the internet, and one of the reasons

we have this rule, is that if i send an e-mail to you from dallas to new york, it very well can be routed through yemen. i mean, this is the way the internet works. so it was already taken into accounts. that were american communications, and those are 46,000 of the supposedly illegally intercepted material that's coming from stuff we've got overseas. that then is removed from the system. nobody after an initial analysis, nobody looks at it, it's not kept. the court made no finding about that. in fact it said i'm not going to deal with these what are called scts, single communication transactions. that's fine. let's go to the multiple communication transactions. that's down to 2,000 to 10,000 instances a year where

information from americans pop up. what a multiple communication transaction is, to give one example -- again, this gets so complicated, if i am e-mailing somebody who is having a conversation about a targeted individual, somebody who there's been a warrant or something to suggest that that guy had some connection to terrorist, if i e-mail somebody who is having a conversation with that person about that person, and they open up their e-mail account there is an image transmitted over the internet that might get swept up by the nsa. they will see my e-mail -- not my e-mail itself, my e-mail in the inbox. they can't open it, they can't read it. it's basically an image. >> it's essentially -- >> that's what we're talking

about. so weeping up databits and feeding them into sort of a giant computer. i think the concern people have is there isn't an adver sear process. when the government says hey, we want to do these three-month or five-month warrants, there's no process within the court system. in your view, should there be? >> no, because there isn't an adver sear process in any system to get a warrant. remember, the theme of this whole story has been that the fisa court is a rubber stamp. now the story today is, look at how the fisa court slammed the nsa, sort of like we have to pick which boat we want to ride on. the story today, the opinion today goes to underscore what folks like i have been saying all along, that the fisa court is not only looking at warrants, they are looking at the entire process of the system, and what was done in this application to say we want to keep going with the process is the fisa court

went into extremely excruciating detail about is the nsa complying with the fourth amendment and the law? they found that, as you go down the system, what they are -- in the vast majority of it, but they have this one element of the program -- >> mean not getting americans' data if they can? >> no, not getting it kept in the system. that's it. >> right. >> and what they want is, no, that's not in compliance. >> okay. >> so the nsa went away and fixed it a month later. that's what we're dealing with, and they reported it to congress a month after that. the system that was found to be constitutional, because you ended up with they could see i

sent you an e-mail has been fixed. >> i wish we had more time. i love the fact that you about ink this back to the data. i will recommend that anyone read you in "vanity fair" if you want to get into the details, because you really do lay it out, or read your book "500 days." thank you for being here. >> thanks, joy. what schools in america need. >> it's going to be all right, sweetheart. i just want you to know i love you you though. i'm proud, and don't worry about it. we all go through some things in life. hey linda! what are you guys doing? having some fiber! with new phillips' fiber good gummies. they're fruity delicious! just two gummies have 4 grams of fiber! to help support regularity! i want some... [ woman ] hop on over! [ marge ] fiber the fun way, from phillips'. [ chainsaw buzzing ]

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building, includes the police. >> okay. stay on the line with me, ma'am. where are you? >> i'm in the front office. he just went outside and started

shooting. that was an excerpt from the unbelievable 911 call from inside mcnair discovery learning academy on tuesday. the woman you heard on that call was the school's bookkeeper antoinette tuff who stayed on the for enwith police for nearly 25 minutes while trying to talk down suspected gunman michael brandon hill, a troubled 20 years old man who had entered the school moments earlier wielding an ak-47 assault-style weapon and what police say was nearly 500 rounds of ammunition. after he exchanged gunfire with police, he was able to ultimate ly convince him to lay down his -- >> just sit right there. i'm going to butt them in so you know when they're coming. just stay there calm. i'm going to sit here to see that you're trying not to harm me, okay? okay. >> okay.

>> it's going to be all right, sweetheart. i love you, though, okay? and i'm proud of you. that's a good thing you've given up and don't worry about it. we all go through something in life. for more, i'm joined by founder and president of the center for social inclusion maya wiley and julian epstein. isn't she the kind of person we all want in our schools? >> and some of us have these people in our lives. i heard that and related. i can think of some family members, right? yes, because we want people around our kids and in our schools who can not only keep a cool head, but be loving and nurturing even in difficult circumstances. she's amazing. >> julian, you heard a lot of people on the right to say what's needed is is a good buy with a gun, but didn't she teach us that you need a person with empathy, who can communicate with somebody, who was really in

mental health distress. >> that's correct. i think the other aspect is she has emotional i.q. that is off the charts, which is hard to teach, but the idea we need good guys with guns to take down bad guys with gun belies the evidence. we had guns at the school in columbine, guns in ft. hood, as you know, and the movie theater in colorado. there were police there within about 30 seconds. the fact of the fact is that there are relatively few instances where good guys with guns are taking down bad guys with guns. we have about 11,000 homicides in year, only 250 self-defense homicides, so when you poll parents and teachers, the idea that what we need in our schools is more crossfire and more people with guns that could have potentially escalated a situation is not the answer. so when you poll this question, you get anywhere from 50 and 70% of americans think this is a bad

idea. >> when you listen to the call, it's clear that ms. tuff can tell this american has mental health issues. he even says he needs to go to the hospital. what's frightening is somebody like that could get their hands on a gun. i want to play you another clime and get your response. >> he said he don't care if he dies, he don't have nothing to live for. he says he's not mentally stable. he said he should have just gonal to the mental hospital instead of doing this, because he's not on his medication. >> and then after that, maya, he even said he wanted to go on the intercom and tell everyone he's sorry. don't we need to snow have a moment and talk about mental health and the connection with the ability to get your hands on a firearm? >> absolutely. we started having this conversation for the past year and a half, and one of the things that's interesting is our current background check system, national background check system has so many loop holes, and one right now, if you're a

psychiatrist or family member of someone who has a mental illness, you can voluntary offer their information into the system, but there's nothing that requires it, nothing that creates a collection, so if someone goes to purchase that gun, when the gun shot calls to see if there's any reason not to sell the gun, we can prevent it. i think the other thing is we have to keep them out of the hands of private transactions. that's another one of the loopholes. if i give you a gun, right? there's no registration for that. >> correct. >> that's one of the things that the nra opposes, but julian at the same time you've even had nra people say we need a national registry on mental health. is there something rational, that we have to deal with the issue of mental health and access to guns. do you see any sort of policy outcome that even people could agree with from this case? >> the easy policy outcome is

background checks and closing the loop holes. the nra is opposing that, so the nra is making it easy for people with mental health problems to make it easy to get guns, and guns that can do mass destruction. as important as mental health is, however, you have to remember that a background check would not have stopped sandy hook, would not have stopped most of the other major mass shootings that we hear about. in the last 43 mass shootings, 32 of the killers were able to pass background checks, would have passed a mental head background check. as important as that is, you have to remember there are other things that the american people want to make our streets safe. the fact that we don't have these laws is the reason why we have a gun homicide rate that's 20 times greater than most of our industrial brethren. on the politics of this, it's very interesting, if you look at what's happening with mary landrieu and kay hagen action in

their senate races, people who voted for the background checks, they're up in their races. the guy that's behind is our friend from arkansas, mr. pry yor, who is actually losing. the predictions this would be bad politics are just wrong action and this is still an issue that progressives and democrats have to find a way of marshaling the overwhelming public support for gun reform, which they have failed to do thus far. sometimes the brady bill took seven years to get pasted, to whether they will actually becomes -- into political action. you know, that's a test that is still -- we don't have the. thank you so much. we'll be right back. ouse pl. glass on floors. daily chores. for the little mishaps you feel use neosporin to help you heal. it kills germs so you heal four days faster.

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next. colin powell versus reince priebus, who are you going to call? let's play "hardball." good evening. colin powell, perhaps the most respected republicans in country, says his party is sending message to african-americans by pushing measures making it harder to vote, it's saying that it -- the hero of the gulf war in a battle with rnc chair reince priebus, who has responded over the multistate effort to close down voting days and set higher requirements for voting in this country. who are you going to call? the general who wants americans -- all americans to vote and pats are participate? or