thanks for disrupting your sunday afternoon. i'm karen finney. at this hour the president and his team are making their case for air strikes in syria. >> i will seek authorization for the use of force from the american's people's representatives in congress. >> this was a total reversal for the president. >> he didn't say it's a red line and by the way i'll have to seek the approval of congress. >> boy, they were ready. had the destroyers in the mediterranean ready to go. >> hair samples and blood samples have tested positive for signatures of sarin. sarin, sarin, sarin. >> i know that the country will be stronger if we take this course and our actions will be even more effect iive. >> how have you handed syria and

iran a temporary victory? >> i do not believe the congress of the united states will turn its back on this moment. >> if the vote were today it would probably be a no vote. >> at the end of the day congress will rise to the occasion. >> congress says no. >> i don't think they will. >> i know well we're weary of war. >> war sucks. >> i know that the country will be stronger if we take this course and our actions will be even more effective. >> the president has some tough fights over the next couple of weeks as for and domestic priorities will collide. on the world stage he faces assad's key ally russian put vladamir putin when he heads to the g-20 summit in russia this week. back in washington in addition to key issues like immigration reform and the debt ceiling he's got to convince congress to support action in syria. now, the president and his foreign policy team have between now and the week of september 9th when congress returns to make their case.

they have already begun as house members are briefed this afternoon on capitol hill, and tomorrow president obama will host john mccain at the white house. so how will the white house use this time to ensure that the vote goes their way? and will the world get a closer look at just how dysfunctional our congress has become? for the latest let's bring in nbc's kristen welker. kristen, thanks so much for joining me. >> reporter: thanks, karen, for having me. >> kristen, we're seeing members start to stream out of the briefings on capitol hill, and we've, you know, heard some sound from different members. it sounds like we're getting a sense of the kinds of questions that the white house is going to have to look to answer over the next week or so to get members comfortable with the resolution. >> reporter: you're absolutely right, and one of the striking things is that congress is sharply divided. you are seeing a range of opinions from the lawmakers who are filtering out of that meeting. some of the questions, as you mentioned, karen, include what specifically would a limited air

strike accomplish? what would the strategy be? would that actually limit and prevent assad from continuing to use chemical weapons and to harm his own people? so those are some of the questions and some of the skepticism that we are hearing from members of congress. those are the tough questions that this administration is going to aim to answer, not only today but as you mentioned tomorrow. they are hosting senator mccain, lindsey graham, and i expect there to be a flurry of activity, karen, in the coming days between the white house and the hill. >> kristen, how cognizant do you -- what's the sense you get from the white house as to how much this sort of -- we've been sort of talking about the ghost of iraq, and we heard reference, when there was one of the questions about the specifics of the resolution and concerns that maybe previously it hadn't been specific enough? how cognizant is the white house that that's a part of or that's certainly playing a role in the kinds of questions and frankly the challenge that they are going to have? >> they are keenly aware of that, karen, and i can tell you,

if we rewind about six months ago when i was talking to this white house about syria and what they were going to do about syria, that was one of the first issues that they brought up, the shadow of iraq. president obama ran as a candidate criticizing former president george w. bush for engaging in iraq with faulty intelligence, so this is something that the president i think has wrestled with internally for that reason, but, of course, also because this is a nation that is incredibly war weary. if you look at the polls including in our latest nbc news poll it fleshes that out. 50% of americans say they are opposed to military engagement with syria. if you ask about a more limited strike, 50% of americans actually would support some type of engagement. >> right. >> but overall the nation, congress, sharply divided, and don't forget the president wasn't able to get a broad international coalition, the

united states' close et ally britain voting no to join into a military action. >> thank you kristen welker from the white house. >> thank you. for more on the political maneuvering between now and next week let's bring in brendan daly, former communications director for nancy pelosi, the minority leader in the house of representatives and "time" magazine's jane newton small. so, guys, i want to start with where i was just talking with kristen welker. we're hearing members of congress, you know, come out of this briefing that they have had. they have got real questions. we know that iraq is sort of looming large. you know, brendan, you worked obviously for pelosi. how is that -- i mean, she will have to deliver substantial number of votes to ensure that this passes for the president. how is she going to navigate the questions from the members of congress and the sort of -- the answers that they are getting from the white house. >> well, you're right, karen, it's going to be i think a heavy lift, particularly in the house. i think the senate will be a difficult vote enough and the house because it's so volatile

we really don't know how many republicans will vote for it. i think that she's -- she said she supports it, but she certainly has struggled with it, as has the president, so i think that she can get the support of some of the members because she's gone through the same kinds of struggles and concerns that they have. as you'll recall, karen, she led the opposition in the house to the iraq war ten years ago. >> right. >> so she feels very strongly about that and many members agree with her on that, and i think there's a real sense that there's ambivalence here because how effective will the strikes be? if he keeps it limited you might get support, and no one wants boots on the ground. i don't think there's any support for that. >> that's part of the issue, there's a healthy skepticism that members of congress seem to have about how effective strikes could really be and then sort of what happens, you know, the day after, and we've also got john mccain and lindsey graham kind of saying, those two hawks, got to make sure we go far enough so that really puts the conversation in sort of twisting between two opposites. >> well, it's very difficult, i

think, and obviously, you know, what happened in britain as well. there's that concern that it could go down. i think speaker boehner said if it was held today they wouldn't pass it in the house. i think there will be a lot of effort between now and then to make sure that it doesn't happen, that it does pass but i think it will be close. there's a lot of opposition on the right and the left, and everyone, even those who will vote for it are skeptical and concerned about this. rightfully so i think it's going to be a very serious debate and a close question here. >> jane, you wrote about kind of the sort of an interesting dynamic that we saw this week on the republican party side. i mean, sort of you've got the tea partyiers kind of out there, this very libertarian strain and then you've got, you know, more of the hawks. how is that going to shake out as we watch this debate unfold? >> well, certainly i think both parties are very split between the hawks and doves on both sides but you see that especially with the republicans because it's going to be very hard to spoke for speaker boehner to break up. he'll break what is called the

hastert rule which means he'd want to get a majority of the majority on these kinds of things and we're not sure he can get a majority of the majority, not sure if he can get a majority of the minority. everything is up in the air with both of these because it does split both parties where you have, you know, interventionists who are democrats and interventionists who are republicans and people who want to -- more libertarian on the republican side who don't want to get involved just as you have doves on the democratic side that don't want to get involved. a fascinating dynamic, one we haven't seen since the clinton era. back in the bush era and george w. bush's era the sort of interventions in iraq and afghanistan were more partisan and so we're getting back to a time where these questions of foreign policy split the parties. >> we've actually got some sound from congressman pete king from earlier today. let's take a listen. >> i'm hoping by the time next week comes around and hopefully the president can make his case that he will be able to get a majority of the house of representatives. right now it would be very

difficult and also we have an increasing isolationist wing in our party which i think is damaging to the party and to the nation. >> jay, that isolationist wing, kind of like the tea party wing, particularly in the house of representatives. we knew going into this new session of congress this fall that was going to be where the fight was with the tea partyiers when we talk about the debt ceiling, when we talk about the efforts, you know, to shut down the government and obama care. how hard is it going to be for john boehner to get his people in line? because it strikes me, you know, that the republican party has for so long been the party of strong national defense. what signal does it send if all of a sudden, you know, they send a very different message? >> absolutely. i mean, it's a real risk for republicans if this falls apart in congress. you know, obama will obviously get blamed for asking congress to begin with, but i think congress really gets blamed and if it is the fault of the house certainly republicans to get blamed and that's a huge hit for something that's been a strength for them for the past decade,

but it's also, as you said, all these other pieces of legislation out there so you have to sort of calculate how you're going to spend your political capital, force them on this vote, on the vote not to shut down the government, things all stacked up one against another. >> final question to you, how important is america's relationship to israel in this process? already started to see some lobbying going on. how much will that play in making the case with members of congress? >> well, i think in both parties they certainly want to be a friend of israel, and it's a huge ally in the region. that is a factor, but just getting back to what jane said as well. look back to the votes on the eavesdropping, the nsa eavesdropping and surveillance. there was a bipartisan coalition against that. in the end it prevailed, the amendment that would have shut down funding for that but it was a very close vote. i think you'll have a similar

dynamic here and it will be a tough battle. >> people may find out they have more in common with the people they have been opposing than they ever thought. >> a real debate. >> how about that. thanks to both of you. >> thanks, karen. coming up, making the case to the international community. that's ahead. >> do you think that this vote will pass? >> i do believe that it can. i think it depends to some degree whether the president of the united states not only makes the case to congress, but i would recommend that he go to the -- come speak from the oval office and tell the american people why this mission is necessary. announcer ] these days, a small business can save by sharing. like carpools... polly wants to know if we can pick her up. yeah, we can make room. yeah. [ male announcer ] ...office space. yes, we're loving this communal seating. it's great. [ male announcer ] the best thing to share? a data plan. at&t mobile share for business. one bucket of data for everyone on the plan, unlimited talk and text on smart phones. now, everyone's in the spirit of sharing. hey, can i borrow your boat this weekend?

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well, the president and his team make the case for air strikes in syria at home, they are also going to be working to

build a unified coalition of the willing abroad, and they could be facing a major obstacle, one vladamir putin. this week the president will plead his case to potential allies at the g-20 summit, but spoiler alert. that event takes place in st. petersburg, russia, hosted by said vlad, friend of syria and unsure friend of president obama. two leaders on opposite sides of the struggle pitted against each other in the same room, one looking to build alliances and the other looking to break any movement towards armed confrontation while they continue to arm the syrians. britain is out. other nations unsure. it will be an interesting watch to see which president is able to rally forces to his side. meanwhile, the assad regime welcomed obama's announcement and underscored how tense the situation in syria has become. joining me now steve clemons and doug wilson, senior fellow at the truman national security

project. thanks to you both. >> good to be with you. >> steve, i want to start with you. the reaction we're seeing abroad from assad and oh, how emboldened do we think they feel, particularly when they see, you know, members of congress coming out of briefings, having lots of questions? clearly our administration is going to have a challenge getting our own members of congress to his side. does that embolden assad? >> i think for the moment it emboldens him. when the cruise missiles finally hit their targets, regardless of what the congress does, because i believe president obama is very focused on delivering that signal and forcing him to pay a consequence, but it's clear that he feels like he's gotten a new lease on life for a while >> we've got a full screen of a syrian state newspaper and the front page today said, quote, president obama has announced yesterday by provecating or hinting the start of the historic american retreat. so this perception of retreat in the region, does that buy assad

some time? i mean, what does he do with this time? >> well, i think that he's taunting the president which actually could create blow back. i mean, when members of congress see the way the united states and its president are being treated by a villain like this, then i think you may actually find some people who are on the fence in terms of providing the president authorization who give it to him, but the broader question is one that's really important and assad is getting at it, too, is america in some form of strategic contraction all around the world? i think in part the united states has been trying -- >> do you think that's the message that this sends? >> i think it can enhance that impression that china, that iran, that saudi arabia, that the russians, et cetera, have and are hoping for, and i think president obama is very committed to that not happening. >> right. >> but nonetheless i think that's what's going to be the debate. we've got 535 people who want to make the kind of -- fine tune the kind of decision that the

president is going to make and that's very unrealistic. >> speaking of iran, they have been threatening consequences, doug, and we've got full screen from a revolutionary guard commander who said, quote, the fact that the americans believe that military intervention will be limited within syrian boarders is an illusion. it will provoke reactions beyond that country. its results will be pain, massacre and the exodus of the innocent population. so to this point that steve is making about whether or not there's this question more broadly about american contraction, you then have iran threatening consequences more broadly in the region. >> i think steve is absolutely right, and i think that both at home and abroad the key to this debate, the key issue is america's role in the world. the rhetoric that you hear coming out of syria, out of iran, out of vladamir putin, it's rhetoric to be expected. this is positioning, but what's very key is that the united states make clear that its role in the world remains strong,

smart and principled, and that the lessons that we have learned from the experience in iraq are not the wrong lessons. there are certainly lessons to have been learned from iraq in terms of the nature of engagement but to never engage and not to lead is the wrong lesson. that i think is the important message that will be sent by congress in this vote. >> doug, isn't part of the challenge here, i mean, congress is skeptical, i think we're all a little bit skeptical. what happens the day after air strikes? so far we're saying no regime change, but from the perspective of the folks in the region hearing this debate, hearing that we're talking about these targeted limited strikes, i think a lot of people don't think that's realistic and at some point the u.s. is going to have to get engaged, and the question being will america want to let itself be engaged in what's likely a much longer, much broader struggle? >> i think this is, again, the ghost of iraq, and what's important is that the ghost of iraq not become syria as the

clone of iraq. i think after ten years on the battlefield in iraq and afghanistan, people are not only war weary, they understand that there are aspects to the nature of conflict in the middle east that go beyond what the united states can affect that had historical and religious in nature. what is important to recognize is that there is a humanitarian aspect. there is a moral and principled aspect here that the president has made very clear to the american public and will make very clear to congress, and that is just to say that it is unacceptable for a dictator to use chemical weapons on his own people. >> sure. >> you can't -- saying it's unacceptable, that and a quarter will get you a cup of coffee in assad's favorite cafe in damascus. there needs to be a demonstration that this is unacceptable. a previous generation understood this as never again. this generation must step up to the plate.

>> right, but, you know, steve, so here's the question. you know, we're heading to the g-20, and vladamir putin is, you know, sort of poo-pooing the idea that chemical weapons have been used. i've got some sound from secretary kerry talking about russia, but obviously this confrontation between the president and russia and trying to put together this coalition is going to be the big fight this week. >> i can't believe that that will be a hard choice for most of the members of g-20. got a choice from president obama trying to make a principled stand saying we don't want to go back to the days of world war i where nations gassed their people. we just had the leader of the gay rights movement inside russia and his home and family dug up, harassed, incredible brutality that's emerging so when i look at the g-20 nations they have a very, very easy choice. i can't believe it's complicated for them. the one other comment, congress

was derelict in its duty in iraq, absolutely derelict. they created a hole so wide with no oversight. they can be derelict in their duty again on syria by becoming so fine tuned that they fundamentally miss an unbelievably important moment in america's leadership in the world and unplug that leadership, and so dereliction in both cases is what the congress faces, and i hope that they don't do that. >> i want to get back to this question about russia and the g-20 because we don't have, you know, the uk, parliament. they have said they are not going to go back and take another vote so that is a partner -- we have a special relationship, apparently not so special this time, and with putin certainly i think people can look at what he's doing domestically and disagree with it, but in terms of his power and influence on the world stage and some of the other forces that are allied on his side,

won't g-20 nations stay out of it rather than take sides? >> congress coming back and eventually supporting the president, of course, that won't happen before the g-20 but i think his resolve and posture are very, very important in the next few days. putin today looks like a bit of a winner, and i hope that in the next few days that begins to come apart. one of the things the united states needs to think about russia is what kind of relation. we need russia and a lot of issues in the world. right now russia is sticking it in the eye to us over and over and over again, and we seem to be unable or unwilling to find those points of leverage that cause a little bit of pain and frustration for russia. we've been very nice across the board in my view with russia, and i think now maybe we need to take the gloves off and play harder ball than the president has been doing thus far. >> doug, i want to talk about another force in the region hand that's israel. we know, that you know, israel is going to be part of the -- the safety and security of israel will be part of the administration's argument

domestically i would imagine as well as at the g-20. i want to -- an israeli military analyst said, quote, the obama administration's conduct gives us insight into strategic challenge posed by iran's nuclear program. from an israeli point of view, the conclusion is far from encouraging. the theory that the u.s. will come to israel's aid at the last minute and attack iran to lift nuclear threat seems less and less likely. you've got netanyahu saying that israel can protect itself. what role does that play in terms of the tension between the g-20 countries deciding whether or not to support the united states in air strikes? >> i think the administration is hearing both publicly and privately from the israelis of the importance of not letting the massacre, the chemical weapons massacre in syria, go unanswered. i think israel has a very good sense of the threat to its own survival and security in the middle east. i think it supports a strong

response from the united states, and i think that it will support a strike making that message very clear to assad. >> steve, final question to you. i mean, what -- ultimately at some point we have to talk about an end game, and we can do air strikes, but how is that -- at some point there's go the to be a political solution. at some point people have to get around a table and really effect some kind of change. not saying regime change but at some point there has to be real change. >> this has been my problem with john mccain and lindsey graham who want an all in strategy and think the president is wrong for limited -- i think the president is right on target, that limited strikes that potentially change the sense of invulnerability that assad has is vital to get assad to agree into going into a negotiations process. it also enables the president to give russia what it wants. you'll notice that obama's statement that precludes regime change and assad not saying he

has to go is a very big change in rhetoric to the white house so they are holding that open. >> yes. >> so that could be co-conceivably be a gift to the russians and we've had journalists kidnapped inside syria, not by the regime but by part of our allies so we're allied with very despicable people inside syria. what do you need happen? you need this force to change the conclusion for assad. throw the process hopefully into a russia-american orchestrated negotiation that includes all parties. stop trying to play the game of who shouldn't be there, and then in the process of that hopefully find that assad and would i say the more moderate elements of the opposition find a deal and then push the extremists out. that's the end game. >> all right. we have to leave it there. thank to you steve clemons and doug wilson. >> thank you. coming up, with labor day right around the corner we'll take a look at the efforts to raise the minimum wage and the current state of the labor movement. citing and would alwaye to my rescue.

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while the drums of war echo in the halls of the west wing the obama administration has also been busy winding down what's arguably the country's longest war. on thursday attorney general eric holder took significant steps towards scaling back the government stance against marijuana. the department of justice told colorado and washington's governors where voters passed measures to legalize adult recreational marijuana use that the federal government will essentially just say no to challenging those lies. could this be the start of something big? maybe so. a number of cities around the country have passed laws decriminalizing marijuana use or they have made it a low priority for law enforcements, and a number of states are considering measures to legalize lighting up including maine, rhode island, vermont, massachusetts and oregon. a majority of americans support marijuana legalization and six

in ten think the federal government should not go after states that permit its use so perhaps this latest armistice in the war on drugs will help bring about a more lasting peace. let us know what you think about the subject. should the federal government challenge laws legalizing mayor ana? visit us on facebook and tweet us @msnbcdisrupt. coming up the 1963 march on washington attendees were pushing for a higher minimum wage. it's a battle still being fought as we mark labor day 50 years later. that's coming up next. >> low wage workers need a voice and marketing power. that's why fast food workers have been striking, why walmart workers need to be heard and why low wage workers across america are trying to organize and mobilize. they need your support. equipped with droid zap for advanced photo sharing

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. labor day used to be a time to celebrate the rising wages, better working conditions and improved benefits that most working people in america enjoyed for years. no longer. >> if you're one of the millions of american workers lucky enough to have the day off tomorrow you can thank american men and women workers who have contributed to the prosperity and the strength of our country. the labor movement honors that work by fighting for mandatory lunch breaks, five-day work week, sick pay and the threes could or others skrolg behind me. over the last several years attacks from the right have attempted to demonize and ignoring labor unions ignoring the work they have done to help pave the way for workers' right, everything from better pay to better working conditions and still too many americans continue to fight for respect on the job. earlier this week as the nation celebrated 509th anniversary of dr. king's march on washington which was originally called the march on washington for jobs and freedom, thousands of fast food

workers in more than 60 cities held a nationwide strike demanding a raise from the current minimum wage salary of $7.25 to a living wage of $15 per hour, a drop in the bucket for a lot of large corporations like mcdonald's and walmart. by the way, adjusted for inflation, the current minimum wage of 7.25 is less than the 1.15 an hour workers were fighting against back in 1963. so this labor day as we recognize the multiple reasons to thank the labor movement, let's also realize that the fight goes on for many. joining us now is mary cahenry, president of the service employees international union and john nichols, washington correspondent for "the nation," thanks to you both. >> thank you. >> i want to start with you, mary kay. the fast food workers strike has become so important because it's brought attention back to the issue of a living wage. the president has proposed an

increase in the minimum wage and also collective bargaining. i want to just show you, if you take a look at the impact raising the minimum wage would have would have, we know particularly when it comes to men -- i'm sorry, people of color and women, you've got minimum wage workers in 2011, 62% were women and 38% were men. we've got 2.5 million women earning minimum wage or less and 1.5 men earning minimum wage or less, so when we talk about increasing the minimum wage, we're really talking about a huge impact on communities of color and for women who are now really in many cases. >> that's right. an amazing way that you just painted that picture, and that's why i think we are -- our members are so proud, karen, to stand with these fast food workers and walmart workers because they are not just standing up for themselves. they are standing up for all of us. we have a low wage economy where

by 2040 20% of the jobs will be low-wage jobs and unless we support the fast food workers winning their demand for $15 an hour, we're going to keep heading in this direction. that's why we are so proud this labor day to think about how do we restore the basic american value that when you work hard you can earn a decent living because that basic promise to american working people has been broken. >> you know, john, one of -- sort of what we hear from the other side, oh, these fast food workers, these are teenagers which we know is not true. generally i think the median age is about 28, and these folks are generally breadwinners in their families. you know, the companies will say we can't afford the living wage. i mean, look what it would do to profits, but then if you take a look at the ceo salaries from last year, mcdonald's ceo don thompson made 13.8 million and yum brands ceo david novak

11.2-3-million and walmart ceo michael duke 23.7 million. can they not afford to pay their workers? >> it's not just about the ceo, talk about ceo pay but then there's executive and vice presidents and directors and all sorts of other folks. the fact is that these corporations pay a handful of people a huge amount of money and yet they contribute to a direction that our economy is going that's very, very dangerous. since the great recession two-thirds of the jobs that have been created have been below $14 an hour. what that means is that we are -- we are creating jobs and we're talking about, you know, coming back with the creation of jobs. >> sure. >> but what we're really doing is creating jobs that can't pull a working family above the poverty level, and this is a real challenge. it's why the unions have stepped in and they are so wise to do so because at the end of the day

it's not just about unions or non-union workers. >> right. >> it's about the kind of economy that we create. >> well, i think it's important because one of the things we also know is that over this period where you've seen wages are stagnating we have seen, again, ceo pay going up, but we have also seen a 25% increase in productivity, so workers are working harder and somebody's profiting. clearly that money is not being reinvested into the workers. >> that's correct. i think it's -- your point. >> sorry, go ahead, john. >> that's exactly right, and the fact of the matter is this is bad economics. it is unwise. it's great if you have a cash out economy, if you want to make your money and leave quickly, but if you want to make a long-term commitment to the united states, you have to talk like mary kay henry has been taking here, what's it going to be like in 20 or 25 years, and the fact is it's unsustainable to keep creating a handf fan ec

where a handful of american take so much money out of the economy and a large number are scraping to get by. we want a recognition that you really do have to take care of those folks who are making the least in order to maintain an economy that functions for everybody. >> you know, mary kay, very quickly, labor's role in this has been critically important, and as i mentioned in the opening we have seen a real attack on the labor movement, a demonization, if you will, a myriad of measures at the state and local level, attempts at the federal level to really weaken unions. what is the labor movement doing to strengthen? one of the things we've seen certainly is broader coalitions like the moral monday, like the engagement around these fast food workers. >> right. i think those are the two key things that we are recognizing that this is about how do we support workers raising wages

again, and that's the essence of our mission in this moment and doing it by joining hands with civil rights leaders and faith leaders who have been at the forefront of supporting the fast food workers. >> all right. thank you to mary kay henry and john nichols. >> thank you very much. teachers are welcoming students back but many are talking about arming the teachers for safety. that's ahead. the timing, the actions, the reactions. everything has to synch up. my expenses are no different. receipt match from american express synchronizes your business expenses. just shoot your business card receipts and they're automatically matched up with the charges on your online statement. i'm john kaplan and i'm a member of a synchronized world. this is what membership is. this is what membership does. are you kidding me? no, it's only 15 calories.

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♪ it was the best day yeah! ♪ it was the best day ♪ because of you [sigh] [echoing] we make a great pair. huh? progressive and the great outdoors -- we make a great pair. right, totally, uh... that's what i was thinking. covering the things that make the outdoors great. now, that's progressive. call or click today. accomplishing even little things can become major victories. i'm phil mickelson, pro golfer. when i was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis, my rheumatologist prescribed enbrel for my pain and stiffness, and to help stop joint damage. [ male announcer ] enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders, and allergic reactions have occurred. before starting enbrel, your doctor should test you for tuberculosis and discuss whether you've been to a region where certain fungal infections are common. you should not start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu.

tell your doctor if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have symptoms such as persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. since enbrel helped relieve my joint pain, it's the little things that mean the most. ask your rheumatologist if enbrel is right for you. [ doctor ] enbrel, the number one biologic medicine prescribed by rheumatologists. it's back-to-school time and here's a sobering fact. guns are the second leading cause of death among children and teens and the number one cause among black children and teens. so i know. let's put more guns in the schools our kids attend. meet arkansas state senator jeremy hutchison fighting to allow teachers carry guns in school. after newtown mr. muchson took part in a simulation exercise

similar to one we're watching here. armed with a pistol and simulated bullets he shot what he thought was a bad guy with a gun in a staged school attack. bravo. but it turns out the person he hit was a teacher shooting at the real bad guy. we contacted mr. hutchison but he said the story was true but wanted to clear one thing up. he didn't shoot a teach we are a pretend bullet but a police officer playing a teacher so you might say mr. hutchinson didn't shoot one good guy with a gun but two good guys with a guns. despite all of that he wants to arm teachers. turns out a love of guns in school may run in the family. his uncle is asa hutchison author of the 225-page school safety report which called for training and arming interested teachers. >> everything from a sidearm to shotgun to ar-15 in the car of a

school officer. the presence of an armed security or personnel in a school adds a layer of security and diminishes response time that is beneficial to the overall security. >> now the aftermath of sandy hook shooting saw some 450 school safety bills introduced in statehouses around the country. these include other less controversial measures such as adding door locks or security cameras, but once you let teachers carry guns or designate an armed non-law enforcement officer we have to wonder where do you draw the line. let's bring in my guests, mayor stephanie rawlings blake from the city of baltimore and gregory thomas, the former director of security for new york city schools. thanks to you both. >> sure. >> mayor, i want to start with you. i know you participated in a meeting that president obama held this week with a group of mayors. as a mayor of a large city what do you make of this idea of putting more guns in schools? mean, aren't we trying to keep

guns out of schools and away from kids? >> i think the example you showed in the lead-in shows just why it doesn't make good sense to put more guns in schools, and i think it's unfortunate because more -- the most amount of kids that we're losing is not in the schools. it's where the legislators can actually do something. it's on the streets, and if we could tighten up gun laws and get more illegal guns off the street we'd reduce the number of youth we're losing to gun violence. that's a serious issue and i think it's unfortunate that they are using these very horrific tragedies, school tragedies to obfuscate the real deal. >> right. you know, school safety also is not just about guns, right? there are a number of other measures. we're not just talking about being armed. there's a school in arkansas that suggests by arming staff and telling people that you've armed the staff that somehow that's going to solve the problem, but it just strikes me, as we know there's a range of

oshie measures you know from new york city public schools and ways to keep kids safe without adding more guns into the equation. >> i would say honestly more guns doesn't mean safer schools. these events they are referring to they are trying to use as a reactionary evidence is they are aberration so it's aberration of aberration. sandy hook disaster was what it was, a disaster, a rare event. school shootings are rare events so to use that as a catalyst to say we need more guns in school to stop this from happening it's a false starter. >> what are some of the other measures that schools can use to keep schools safe? >> one example is filed two weeks ago in georgia when the bookkeeper did what she did so heroically. the prevention that could have been done to stop that man coming in to be worked on but behind the scenes what schools can do best is do what they do best, teaching and learning and do a mitigation step like lockdown drills. >> mayor, there's a new psa out by -- very powerful, by moms

against guns. i want to -- moms demand action, i apologize. i want to play that and then let's talk about it. mayor, i know you have a daughter and watching that ad you think about what must be going through parents minds as they send kids back to school in the midst of this conversation about more guns in schools as a safety measure. >> it is a shocking commercial, and it's a shocking message. as a mom it sends chills through

you to think that that's where we are as a nation, and i agree with greg that we need to do everything that we can to make our schools safe, but absolutely having more guns, having teachers or more security guards with guns isn't the answer. you know, these moms are demanding action to tighten up gun laws and make it more difficult for people who should not have guns to have guns on the street, and i think that is the answer. i hope that we stay focused on that message. having more guns around means that we can have more guns wind up in the wrong hands and that will certainly not make any of our kids any safer. >> thank you to mayor stephanie rawlings blake and gregory taylor. we'll be right back. now you caf a kick in the rear! v8 v-fusion plus energy. natural energy from green tea plus fruits and veggies. need a little kick? ooh! could've had a v8. in the juice aisle.

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so i should give up my two aleve for more pills with advil? you're joking right? for my back pain, i want my aleve.

for more on the situation in syria and reaction to president obama's statement on saturday, we go to nbc correspondent jim maceda in antakya, turkey. jim, thanks for joining me. i want to get your sense of what

the reaction is a day after president obama's statement. i mean, some are questioning our resolve and our commitment to the region. >> reporter: that's right, and there really isn't just one reaction or one mood, karen. it's a kaleidoscope really of emotions as the effects of that dramatic turnaround by president obama is felt throughout the middle east. turkey where we are is a good example. many turks were showing for a kind of shock and awe that would lead to president assad stepping down from power. they were very disappointed, to say the least, when they heard about the narrow limited operation being proposed instead, and now even that has been called into doubt, so you talk to turks, they are very unhappy. then you take the syrian rebels and activists who are also dejected, some criticizing obama for flip-flopping on syria. the opposition spokesman saying

obama sent contradictory messages promising first to help the rebels and then deliberately delaying those promises, and then you have the flip side, or the other side, the assad regime simply gloating today. assad bragged to syrian state tv that syria was ready for a fight, that they would be able to confront any external aggression. his main regime newspaper called obama's backing of course, quote, the start of america's historical decline. there's syrians feeling fear and feeling worry. you just have across the board these kinds of emotions. karen. >> jim, very quickly. what's the situation with the refugees? that's the other big story here that we're tracking. >> reporter: right. well, there have always been a flow of refugees coming from -- from syria into here, into turkey since the beginning of

the civil war two and a half years ago, but what's happening now is they say they have got two nightmares to deal with, the civil war and the prospect of these air strikes, and we're seeing hundred if not thousands of people huddled together just inside the syria border waiting, waiting for that sign to come over. >> thank you, jim maceda. >> reporter: back to you. >> thanks for joining us. that does it for me. we'll see you next saturday right here. (growls) (man) that's a good look for you. (woman) that was fun. (man) yeah. (man) let me help you out with the.. (woman)...oh no, i got it. (man) you sure? (woman) just pop the trunk. (man vo) i may not know where the road will lead, but... i'm sure my subaru will get me there. (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru.

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