out. >> this is iraq are there weapons of mass destruction. no, they have them and used them against civilians. i think we have to take steps that the use of chemical weapons against civilians has a consequence. >> if we get syria wrong and show a weakness here regarding assad's chemical weapons utilization, you're almost ensuring a war between israeli and iran over their nuclear program and we will certainly get drawn that. >> i did not draw the red line and say if you crossed this, we for sure are going to do something. >> members of congress don't officially return to d.c. until next week, but committees are heading back for classified briefings. 100 took a conference call and 80 to a classified briefing on sunday. today the united nations says the number of refugees leaving syria is more than 2 million. that is close to 5,000 syrians fleeing the war-torn country every day. the u.n. calls it the greatest tragedy of this century.

i want to bring in two guests. tough sale the president has here the next few days. he has to compress his schedule because he is leaving for the g-20 summit. what do you think it's like in that room right now? >> i think the president has to push and sell this if this is their priority. i think one of the things that is going to come down to is the language of the resolution, how much can what the president wants be in there to do what he wants to accomplish. is this military strikes, is it very limited? is the president going to feel like actually having gone to congress is going to tie his hands further? i think that is what it's going to come down to with negotiating with congress. >> we saw some of the numbers "the washington post" had really interesting breakdown today about the vote and it's not breaking down along party lines. there are huge blocks that are still undecided when you take a look at this and we saw senators

mccain and graham meeting with the president yesterday and then the committee chairs and pelosi. who are the key players here? >> one is marco rubio, which side is he going to go? the people positioning themselves for 2016 and where is the weather vain of politics on the political side is interesting to watch. what obama has to do is negotiate the movement between the inventionist right, the john mccain's who just came out of the white house and said, well, i got more kind of reassurance that we will be able to arm the rebels more and be more robust than i thought before, which is great for john mccain but you have pat lee saying, no, actually, i'm more narrow kind of resolution because i don't want to have an expansive action there. thes two sid those two sides don't necessarily agree with each

other there. how obama deals with that kind of negotiation is the key. >> chris van hollen on pat leahy's side. it's interesting. the white house said it is open to taking a look at this and the devil is clearly going to be in the details here. >> i think so so. i think matt makes a good point. we saw this similar kind of breakdown the progressive libertarian side take hold. and votes coming up on the fisa and patriot act. people are splitting differently on national security right now. you will always have this dynamic with the republicans and the president coming to them for thanks that he wants and that desire to push back and say no, except here you do have the mccain's and graham's who are trying to hard to steer their party in a different direction. >> but rand paul on the libertarian side which is a

schism of that party. >> just came within seven people changing their mind to significantly defunding the nsa last month is the coalition and half become and half republican for the most part. that is the coalition that obama is paying to by going to congress, which he did not do during libya. he flagrantly disregarded the congress during that time. >> let's bring in a member of the foreign affairs committee. you said there is a very heavy burden to persuade you to vote for this. what do you need to hear? what do you need to see? >> well, i participated in the classified briefing on sunday in washington and i was on the call yesterday with the president's national security team and we will have a hearing tomorrow. i think everyone recognizes this attack was horrific and the

assad regime is responsible by the evidence we have seen. the question is whether or not a military strike will protect and advance the national security interesting of the united states and i think there are a lot of questions about what is the objective of this strike and the complications for the region and what are the implications of inaction versus action. i have a lot of questions whether or not in the end this will advance and protect the national security interesting of the united states or undermine. i think i'm listening very carefully to all of the presentations the administration are presenting and asking the hard questions but i think need to be thorough in our review and careful before we engage in a military strike. >> the president made comments before going into that meeting at the white house that we were just talking about. this is tape that we just got in just prior to that meeting. let's listen. >> of the united states. and the fact that i've had a

chance to speak to many of you and congress, as a whole, is taking this issue with the soberness and seriousness that it deserves is greatly appreciated and, i think, vindicates the decision for us to present this issue to congress. as i've said last week, secretary kerry made clear in his presentation last week, we have high confidence that syria used in an indiscriminate fashion, chemical weapons that killed thousands of people, including over 400 children, and in direct violation of the international norm against using chemical weapons. that poses a serious national security threat to the united states and to the region, and as a consequence assad and syria needs to be held accountable. i've made a decision that america should take action. but i also believe that we will

be much more effective, we will be stronger if we take action together as one nation, so this gives us an opportunity, not only to present the evidence, to all of the leading members of congress and various foreign policy committees, as to why we have high confidence that chemical weapons were used and that assad used them, but it also gives us an opportunity to discuss why it's so important that he be held to account. this norm against using chemical weapons that 98% of the world agrees to is there for a reason, because we recognize that there are certain weapons that wi, wh used, can only end up resulting in grotesque deaths, but also can end up being transmitted to nonstate and can pose a risk to

allies and friends to us like israeli and like jordan and like turkey, and unless we hold them into account, it also sends a message that international norms around issues like nuclear proliferation don't mean much. and so i'm going to be working with congress. we have sent up a draft authorization. we are going to be asking for hearings and a prompt vote, and i'm very preappreciative that congress will take a vote as early as next week. the key point i want to emphasize to the american people, the military plan that has been developed by our joint chiefs and that i believe is appropriate is proportional, it is limited, it does not involve boots on the ground. this is not iraq and this is not

afghanistan. this is a limited proportional step that will send a clear message, not only to assad regime, but also to other countries that may be interested in testing some of these international norms, that there are consequences. it gives us the ability to degrade assad's capabilities when it comes to chemical weapons. it also fits into a broader strategy that we have to make sure that we can bring about, over time, the kind of strengthening of the opposition and the diplomatic and economic and political pressure required so that, ultimately, we have a transition that can bring peace and stability, not only to syria, but to the region. but i want to emphasize once again, what we are envisioning is something limited, it is something proportional, it will degrade assad's capabilities. at the same time, we have a broader strategy that will allow us to upgrade the capabilities

of the opposition, allow syria ultimately to free itself from the kinds of terrible civil wars and death on the ground. i look forward to listening to the members who here today and i'm confident the concerns can be addressed and i think it's appropriate we ask deliberately but i think everybody recognizes the urgency and we have to move relatively quickly. to all of you here today, i look forward to an excellent discussion. >> mr. president, are you prepared to -- the opposition and does that undercut any of your authorities? >> i would not be going to congress if i wasn't serious about consultations and believing that by shaping the authorization to make sure we accomplish the mission, we will be more effective. so long as we are accomplishing what needs to be accomplished, which is to send a clear message

to assad, degrading his capabilities to use chemical weapons, not just now, but also in the future, as long as the authorization allows us to do that, i'm confident that we are going to be able to come up with something that hits that mark. thank you, everybody. i am. thank you, guys. >> congressman, you heard what the president had to say that this is a limited and proportional response that they are considering and answering your cost of action which he says is instability in that region. and, obviously, the concern about the proliferation of chemical weapons from places like iran and north korea. what are your thoughts about what you just heard from the president? >> well, i want to say i applaud the president, who has been really actively engaged in consultation in congress both in his national security team, both in the briefings that they have provided and the willingness to

keep your informed and continue to share information for us and i applaud the president for that. we have to fully understand the strategic objectives of a military strike and what the implications are for the region and what are the possibilities that might happen after a strike. are we prepared for that? and to really consider whether or not it will, in the end, advance the national security interests of the united states. to engage in the strike. the president has talked about this international norm. i think it's critical that if we are going to proceed, that it will be part of a international coalition, what is the status of us building support around the world. so i think there are a lot of questions that many of us continue to have. i'm going to, obviously, listen very carefully to the administration's testimony tomorrow. i've been -- i have attended the briefings, reviewed the evidence, and i'm going to continue to consider all of this but, you know, when you look at the many, many challenges we face in our own country and how weary people are from afghanistan and iraq, before we engage in another military action, we have to be certain that we have thought about all of these issues very carefully

and carefully considered all of the implications, both -- >> i don't want to put words in your mouth but it sounds to me like you're leaning against. >> i think at this point, i'm not persuaded that military action is -- will advance the national security interests of the united states. >> what would it take? would a resolution that, for example, puts a ban on ground troops and has a very limited scope in terms of time, would that do it? >> i think there is no question that boots on the ground is not something that even the president is asking for. that is absolutely the case. i would not support that, of course. the question is whether or not a military strike will, the next day, put us in a stronger position in the region and provide greater stability or not. i think that is the question. you know, we realize that people are watching this, iran and russia are wching but what do we have to hold assad accountable for this short of a military strike and we need to consider a whole range of options. >> given that that line was

drawn and what the president said, not to do it, this is john mccain and nancy pelosi's argument, not to do it sends a message that the united states is weaken, sends a message to other pou other powers with chem calle weapons there is no consequence for this kind of action. >> we have to send a message that the united states will rush into another military engagement without thinking about the strategic implications in the short term and in the long term of military action. i think we have to proceed cautiously and we have to understand all of the implications. we have to ask the hard questions. and then ultimately make a judgment that we think is in the best interest of the national security of our own country, but to suggest somehow we can do a strike and then the next day, we will be done, i think misperceives the seriousness and the complications of this issue and the complications in this

region of the world. i think we have to be very cautious and understand completely what all of the possible implications are of military action and particularly if it's not in concert with other nations around the world and to think what message that sends to the world as well. so i think this is a hard question. there is no easy answer but we -- i applaud the president for proceeding with caution for engaging with congress, for consultation and look forward to the hearing tomorrow to have more questions answered by secretary kerry and secretary hagel. >> congressman cicilline thank you for being on the program. matt, think he enunciated what is difficult for the president, action versus inaction and the real hesitancy to know whether or not there is a strike, whether the outcome will be positive. >> a question of is it going to be effective. you can have all of the will that you want and feel like assad is unique moral monster in

this universe but then what does this particular strategy -- what is it going to achieve once you do it? is it going to degrade his ability to use chemical weapons? is it going to blow up chemical weapons and expose the air to chemical weapons? we don't know. i think congress is not very convinced of it. there is also a question of international norms. the president is kind of blurring the lines there saying 98% as of if 98% of the world wants -- >> i think the 98% refers to the 98% of the population represented by the 189 nations that have signed on to the chemical weapons -- >> but what is the enforcement of it? it's not not the united states going to war. what he is trying to say is that we are the enforcement mechanism and i think americans and congressmen of both parties, i should say, are legitimately concerned about the idea that america always is the enforcement mechanism. we don't want that role any more. >> we are out of time.

i think we have to make the point that this also has tremendous domestic implications here as we are approaching so many things on the floor of the house and the president, this vote is critical. >> he is pushing everything in here at a time when we are facing debt limit and we have immigration reform on the table and many other things. i think the president really wants to spend a lot of capital here right now. >> great conversation. thanks to both of you. we will be right back. with the spark cash card

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so just a short time ago, we heard from the president as house and leadership arrived at the white house for conversations about syria. other key members you can see participating here from susan rice, chuck hagel, john kerry,

and the president making his case that the united states must take limited and proportional response to chemical weapons used in syria. it comes as earlier this morning, israel fired ballistic missiles into the mediterranean sea to test its anti-missile system and gave a warning to the u.s. but it comes at a dicey moment. president obama is heading to the g-20 summit tonight. lack of support from the international community is a major road block for the administration. >> international community, it's such an outrage. so important to everyone. where is the outrage? >> did this to his -- to his own folks, i don't understand why they don't rise up as one and eliminate him from his position and leadership. >> joining me now is steve clemons, the washington editor at large for the atlantic.

and tomorrow witus and a senior fellow at the brookings institution. good morning to both of you. >> good morning. >> good morning. >> let's begin with the question, where is the international support? >> i think the uk parliament vote last week was a major blow for the united states in assembling a broad coalition. france has announced its support for action and i think we may see some other key western allies like the australians alongside. but, you know, for the military action itself, there isn't a great need for other countries to do the work, so it could be a diplomatic coalition that could be much, much broader than those with military capabilities. >> steven, how do you see a diplomatic coalition coming together or will? >> in april 2010, barack obama and joe biden hosted here in washington, d.c. a summit of the world leaders to come in and

talk about the proliferation of nuclear, buy l-- biological and chemical weapons and they said the world can't have these kind of weapons. i suspect that if they are not in the direct military line of sight, a lot of these nations are willing to sign up as long as it's more symbolic support. but i think that does matter at this point. we did see an extraordinary action from the arab league. tamara may know better than i do. the arab league said those accountable for the chemical weapons inside syria should be responsible to the war court for war crimes. they said they support whatever means needed to further deter assad and the further use of chemical weapons. there is support out there. >> am i wrong here, tamara, or did the arab league say there

should be no military action unless the united nations gets behind it? >> i think there a lot of division among the arab states on this question. the gulf states were pressing very hard within the arab league for a resolution like their resolution on libya that would have supported international military action. but they weren't able to get it and they faced opposition from egypt and algeria and others. the problem for the league they were very early out front against assad in the way he has been treating his own citizens and they can't put forward an alternative proposal for how to handle this. >> i think it's fair to say they represent some of the world's no anti-assad governments. having said that, there is this ongoing question that we are hearing from members of congress about how important it is to bring in the international community. let me play for you what

congressman charlie rangel had to say about it. >> there is no way that i can imagine that the united states is the only country that is coming forward to do this. there is no united nations, there is no great britain, there is no arab league. there is nobody but us. >> so, steven, we have britain's parliament holding a second vote toot and france won't go it alone and germany won't take action, i guess there is a question about whether israeli could bring people on board. what do you think, steven? >> i think, you know, israeli will not come on board in anything other than intelligence logistics but i think israel will monitor very closely its own interest if chemical weapons were to move across the border and to israel won't wait for anyone. they will take direct action and decisive action on their own. i don't think that taking military support solves the -- look. the president and the congress

are at a historic moment where, unfortunately, there is a lot of amnesia about the horrors of world war i and where gassing enemies was a commonplace issue. many people have raised the iran and iraq war when saddam hussein used gas. when they helped to certain aspects of the gassing in that particular case, you know, we were in the middle of a cold r war. the world was brutally divided into camps and we are not in a cold war today. the broad issue is you if the diminution and degrading of such an important international norm and if you don't have people coming out and under it's hard to say why those 1,400 deaths from gas attacks are difference in scale and type than the 99,000 other that died a horrible death as well, but many americans are saying, don't those other 99,000 matter? they certainly do. but the type and scale, what is opened to thugs and dictators

around the world, if gassing becomes commonplace and you then find an open opportunity -- chuck hagel was just throughout asia and many countries in asia were watching how we respond. they sit near north korea and other questionable countries in that region. so there are big echo effects what we do antido in this case that affects what we do around the world. >> 22 million population who have fled syria at this point. steve clemons from "the atlantic" and from the brookings institute, tamara, thank you. >> thank you. nelson mandel is back home and still in critical condition, after three months in the hospital. officials say his home is essentially an icu and he will be able to receive the same level of treatment there. in the flurry of news of his return home, a former spokesman for george h.w. bush got it wrong. he says he misread a news flash and released a statement on

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seeing my doctor probably saved my life. warning signs are not the same for everyone. if you think something's wrong... see your doctor. ask about gynecologic cancer. and get the inside knowledge. as part of his high stake sell on syria, president obama will need to convince a war-weary american public that an attack is a matter of national security. here is the president just moments ago before meeting with congressional leaders at the white house. >> the key point i want to emphasize to the american people, the military plan that has been developed by our joint chiefs and that i believe is appropriate is proportional, it is limited, it does not involve boots on the ground.

>> we talked about to the congress and national community. this was connecticut yesterday. a skeptical overflow crowd of more than a hundred people packing west hartford town hall to let them know where they stand on u.s. intervention. >> no one has said to me what the positive effect of going in with a military strike would be. >> we need to think of a way to help syria, but we need to think of it peacefully. >> crimes against humanity are crimes against every and each one of us. >> the united states can't let dictators kill their own people and do nothing. >> look at egypt. look at iraq. look at what we have done, what we have caused. please, please, stay out of syria. >> nbc news poll taken before president obama's saturday announcement find 21% think u.s. military action in syria is in our best interests. 33% say it is not. 46% say they don't know or they

are not sure. amy holmes is anchor of real news with "the blaze." and serlina also joins us. let me play something from lindy graham on what the president needs to do. >> i hope the president will address the american people. not just lindsey and john, and talk about does it matter if assad is in pawer a year now from? if he doesn't engage and persuade the american people, this vote is going to be too close to call right now. if we lost this vote? oh, my god, i can only imagine what it will make us look throughout the world. >> amy, does the president need to address the people more than he has? >> he most certainly does and polls have shown an overwhelming majority of americans oppose military invention in office. >> oval office -- >> i'm not sure about that but he needs to explain why this is

in our national security interests. when he mentioned this isn't iraq and it isn't afghanistan. it can't be libya where we used our military forces to protect, quote/unquote, benghazi. benefit ganszy result so the president has an uphill climb. he hasn't really even started in the first few steps, i would say. >> what do you think? should the president -- what can he do? does he need to sit in the oval office and say this is why we need to do this? how does he communicate to the american people? >> i think that would be a good place to start because i think in the intro they are walking about a war weary nation and that is absolutely true. you have to explain to the american people this is not simply just about america's credibility because that really is more of a media narrative. this is about chemical weapons and the use of them against international norms and a response needs to be convincing to the american people that

bombing syria is the appropriate way to deal with syria with the use of chemical weapons. >> if you look at the statutes, it's a war crime. >> it is a crime to slaughter syrians in the civil war. >> to first of all, they need to get their story straight. we had the secretary of state last friday talking about how this was urgent and immediately and we needed immediate response. the president contradicts him a day later from the rose garden. he needs to get on the message why this is in the national security interests. before the big vote in congress and if it goes against the president as lindsey graham said that is a black eye to america's credibility, frankly. that is when i think he would give the oval office speech. >> a recent poll 51% of the american people don't think afghanistan was a mistake. we talk about a war weary

public. but that was 9/11. that was osama bin laden. >> and attack on our ground. >> very different circumstance to try to convince the american people that this is in our best interests. >> right. i feel like this is putting out forest fire with more fire. why is bombing a country and they know we are going to do this, why is that the appropriate response? that is what the president needs to communicate to the american people, because i think most people with common sense don't see why that is the logical next step and the appropriate way to handle this. >> the way he has handled it has been so incoherent. first we have the drums of war, you know, growing louder and louder and now we have, well, we can take our time, a week, a month, it doesn't really matter. i think bashar al assad thinks it matters. >> if you look at the polls, the mantle of the american people want him to consult with congress first. so there is also that. amy and serlina, to be continued for sure. thanks to both of youing for come in.

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and serves on the foreign house and affairs committee. you said in a previous statement, i'm quoting you here. it is my hope that the president will consider more than just a consultation with congress on these very serious actions. what do you want from the president? >> i think this is something -- it's a grave nature that we need to have an open debate and discussion on this. this is a serious matter and i look forward to this. >> is that going to happen? >> it sure is. a week ago this was not going to happen. they were just talking to leadership and i look forward to sitting down with secretary kerry and secretary hagel. >> yeah. your committee is going to hear from them. what are the questions you have right now? what do you need to hear for you to support what the administration and members of your party, like senator john mccain, want to do? >> well, i think what we need to do is, you know, we need to have a clear defined mission statement, what we are trying to accomplish. we have to look at the evidence. you know, all we have heard is the evidence, not 100% clear,

concise proof that assad used the weapons. there -- >> do you have a doubt about that? >> there is reports that the rebel groups have used it too. until we have 100% decisive evidence, i think it would be wrong for america to intervene at this moment, yes, ma'am. >> is there a question in your mind that the assad government used chemical weapons? do you doubt what the weapon inspectors found and what the fren french government said? >> i heard they said it was sarin gas was used. >> what do you need to see that would convince you of that? >> well, the proof that it came from assad. you got him denying it and russia and china denying that. >> do you trust the word of bashar al assad? >> no, ma'am, i don't. i think there are enough questions there that we need to make sure before we intervene on

a sovereign nation that we need to make sure -- the people from my constituents are tired of america intervening so i'm representing them and they have asked not to intervene. >> are you concerned about not just the stability of the middle east, but if the united states does not take action, the message it will send to other nations that have chemical weapons and may want to use chemical weapons, places like iran and north korea? >> i think what you talked about is a failed foreign policy we have seen the last 30 years and we are seeing the culmination of that right now. as far as intervening right there i would prefer not to and i said i would not support this and stand firm at this point. again, we are meeting with secretary hagel and kerry today and i look forward to hearing that and then we will have our meeting tomorrow so i can, you know, move from that point. >> when you hear members of your party like john mccain saying that not to vote for authorize would be catastrophic. what do you think?

>> i think the opposite. i think the vote to intervene right now, when you have iran threatening to attack israel and you have syria threatening to attack israel, like assad said, you have a powder keg ready to explode over there and i don't want to be the match that ignites that. >> i think there is general consensus it will be -- i think easy is probably the wrong word to use -- but the administration probably has a better chance of passing a resolution on the senate side than on the house side. there does seem to be division within your party from liberty tear iaian tearians, for example and other members of your party. what do you think in the end is the decisive factor in the house? >> i think the decisive action or the factor in the house would be if you can prove 100% this is a national security threat to americans on american soil, i think that's a point that i think everybody would support. but, right now, it's not a national security threat to us.

if you go back to the chemical weapons accord signed in the late '90s the majority of the nation signed that. it also states in there that the nations together should decide to go in there and we are acting unilaterally with france in the background and germany. you know, i think what you saw with britain last week, where they had the emergency session with parliament and brought everybody together and they voted resoundingly not to support this at this time and i would hope that our president, if congress comes out and says that we are not going to support this, would act the same way. >> republican congressman ted yoho, thank you. >> diane my ad says the thrill of becoming the first person to swim from cuba to florida without a shark cage is comforting. her first words when he she reached land was "never give up." today's tweet of the day comes from hillary clinton. flying to 112 countries is a lot

until you consider swimming between two. feels like i swam with the sharks, but you actually did it! congrats. you can hear from diana nyad next on "jansing and co." oh this is lame, investors could lose tens of thousands of dollars on their 401(k) to hidden fees. is that what you're looking for, like a hidden fee in your giant mom bag? maybe i have them... oh that's right i don't because i rolled my account over to e-trade where... woah. okay... they don't have hidden fees... hey fern. the junk drawer? why would they... is that my gerbil? you said he moved to a tiny farm. that's it, i'm running away. no, no you can't come! [ male announcer ] e-trade. less for us. more for you. i can't believe your mom has a mom cave! today i have new campbell's chunky spicy chicken quesadilla soup. she gives me chunky before every game.

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doctors say endurance swimmer diana nayad will not need a long recovery appear history making 100-mile swim between cuba and florida at the age of 64. she has become the first person to swim the shark-infested jellyfish route without a shark cage. kerry sanders talked with her this morning about final reach her goal after 1968. >> always talk about the journey and the destination and life is about the journey and doesn't matter if you make it there. i learned yesterday the journey before, all four times, forth while and tremendous self-discovery. discovery of science, team work. it was beautiful. but, yesterday, the destination is what it's all about!

>> how do you feel physically right now? i can't believe you're standing here. >> i am a little shaky but the worse thing i got all kinds of deep lacerations on the inside of the mouth. they are painful but they are healing. i put ice. i'm just putting pieces of ice all inside there. and trying to get the swelling down. it's the salt water exposure. >> you go, girl! what is next, nyad told kerry she is done with the ocean and who can blame her? but she is going to raise money for charity through endurance swims, but through pools! that wraps up this hour of jansing and co. i'm chris jansing. thomas roberts is up next. she is an inspiration. >> she is absolutely fantastic. you talk aboutportable pools. she propositioned me with an interesting fashion choice. >> she propositioned you? >> yeah, propositioned me. >> i'm going to watch. that a great tease, thomas roberts. >> it's a fashion thing. you'll see. the agenda next hour, full-court press.

the president and his national security team pulling out the stops today to make the case for military intervention. will he get the votes he need in congress? we will speak about alan graceson about that and can mccain get skeptical members of his party to back a strike on syria? also, sisters feuding over marriage of equality and symbolizes a growing divide in the republican party. one who was ousted over his position from marriage inequality and that is coming up at the top of the hour. [ crisp crunches ] whoo-hoo-hoo! guess it was. [ male announcer ] pringles, bursting with more flavor.

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i'm thomas roberts. it is battlefield congress looking for a green light to strike syria. the white house will lay out its case for the use of military force in the first hearing on capitol hill today. now that hearing will be held in just a few hours in the senate foreign relations committee. there are signs of a split that goes beyond partisan lines. >> president obama, because he is -- has really backed america into a corner. and i'm highly concerned about the loss of credibility by not following through now because of what president obama has done. >> if we're going to put service men and women in harm's way, they have to be able to count on the fact that the nation's political leadership is unified behind them. >> among those expected to testify today is john kerry and chuck hagel and martin dempsey, chairman of the joint chiefs. this follows the president's sit-down yesterday in the oval office with unlikely allies for his request toik