that election, he lost. and so we do not live in the world he would create if he ever had a chance to. oh, my god, do elections have consequences. i wonder how vice president sarah palin would be contributing to the debate. that does it for us, we'll see you tomorrow night. now it is time for "the last word" with lawrence o'donnell. the president has just left for the g 20 summit in russia as the debate continues in syria. and we have breaking news about the wording of that congressional resolution on the intervention in syria. >> the president is not asking you to go to war. >> all eyes will be on capitol hill. >> that is not what the president is asking for her. >> as secretaries kerry and hagel head to the hills to convince more members of congress to act. >> this is not iraq and this is not afghanistan. >> the president is meeting with members of congress at the white house. >> we will be stronger if we take action together. >> to try to convince them to

vote for a military strike. not everyone is on board. both parties are deeply divided. you cannot split this along partisan lines. >> at this point i am not persuaded. i need to be persuaded. >> what is the main goal? why can't we concentrate on our own problems? >> you know, they killed hundreds of children, nancy pelosi supports the call for action, for once. many members are still skeptical. >> not a single american has been attacked. >> i don't see a clear-cut american interest. >> not any one of our allies has been attacked. >> my 5-year-old grandson said, i think no war. >> i don't know what news he is listening to. >> this is not an iraq type of situation. >> this is a limited, proportional step. >> we will find the way to make our use of force effective. >> even if this is a limited, strategic strike. what are the results, what would

come next? >> we are very focused to the response on the chemical weapons. >> the furious lobbying continuing on syria. >> they head to the hill, and america decides what to do about syria. >> breaking news tonight, we have the first details of the senate resolution that would authorize the united states military action against syria for the use of chemical weapons. the use would be just 90 days and expressly bars the use of u.s. ground forces or "combat operations." president obama made the case for action to congressional leaders this morning at the white house. >> so the key point that i want to emphasize to the american people, the military plan that has been developed by our joint chiefs. and that i believe is appropriate is proportional.

it is limited. it does not involve boots on the ground. this is not iraq and this is not afghanistan. >> the chairman of the joint chiefs, the secretary of defense and the secretary of state made the case to the senate foreign relations committee today. >> you know, you have three people who have been to war. you have john mccain who has been to war. there is not one of us who doesn't understand what going to war means. and we don't want to go to war. we don't believe we are going to war in the classic sense of taking american troops and america to war. the president is asking for the authority to do a limited action that will degrade the capacity of a tyrant who has been using chemical weapons to kill his own people. it is limited. >> by doing so you announce in advance that your goal is not winning. and i think the last 50 years of

secretaries of defense would say -- >> senator, if you were to ask do you want to go to war in syria? of course not, 100% of americans say no. we don't want to go to war in syria either. that is not what the president is asking you to do. he is not asking you to go to war. he is not asking you to declare war or send one troop to war. >> 51% say they oppose strikes on syria, republicans and democrats all are opposed. when senator bob corker asked how an american military intervention could help the rebels fighting the assad regime, general dempsey said this. >> the past to the resolution of the syrian conflict is through a developed, capable modern opposition, and we know how to

do that. >> of course, we do not know how to do that. develop a capable operation to a middle east dictatorship. we never have done that. but we do know how to bomb things. so the president is asking for authorization to do the only thing we know how to do in these situations. a situation in which everyone agrees there is no good choice. joining me now is delaware senator chris coombs who is a member of the senate foreign relations committee. senator, this is where you are on your pay grade, there is no good choice to make and it seems that is why you're still undecided on that. >> i think that is right, lawrence, this is a very difficult vote. this is the sort of thing that challenges congress. i have been hearing from many in delaware that they are weary of war, and are weary of being drawn into a conflict like iraq

that was sold on false premises. there is a great deal of concern from our constituents. so the first thing i wanted to do was to reassure myself about the quality of the underlying intelligence that the administration has been presenting to us and to drill down into the details of the intelligence that demonstrates that bashar al-assad was responsible for the deadly chemical weapons attacks two weeks ago that killed more than a thousand syrian civilians, including children. i came out of that meeting persuaded. then the afternoon, as the senate foreign relations committee, as you referenced, held an hours-long meeting. and you really can't debate whether there were republicans or democrats, new senators or seasoned senators, exactly how the issues would come out. i think the important question

is how do we narrow the questions that this is not iraq, we're not considering even signing off on an unlimited commitment or an open-ended authorization. i am more comfortable that we have a president who is hesitant, deliberate, reluctant to go into war. and that they are not seeking, as siecretary kerry mentioned i the clip you just showed, they're not seeking an opposition for an open-ended ground troop in syria. so i think we'll have a vigorous debate as the senate foreign relations committee takes up the proposal for the force that was initially drafted and presented by the administration. >> senator, what do you think the most important limitation is that should be in a resolution? is it the time limit of 90 days? >> well, the draft that we have that has been sent around has 60 days with the possibility of an

extension of an additional 30. i asked several questions of secretary kerry and hagel and dempsey about this today. i am comfortable that they feel they can achieve the objectives that the president set out, well within 60 days, possibly less than that. but the other restriction i think is important to the constituents that i'm hearing from, is clarity on the ground troop issue. we are not contemplating the ground troops that was ultimately the authorization at the beginning of the iraq war. >> now, republican senator ron johnson asked a series of question that is actually would have been on my list, almost word for word. and i'm wondering if you heard satisfactory answers, one of which rand paul has been trying to make. that is when senator johnson said, our stated goal is to move assad. why wouldn't we use this opportunity of military action

toward that goal. did you hear a satisfactory answer to that? >> here is the answer i heard across several conversations, several briefings on that point. and i think this is complicated. we have two goals here, the short-term goal, what we are debating today and what the authorization seeks, the brief strike that continues to deter assad, and the use of chemical weapons on his own people. our own objective is to make sure assad leaves syria and the assad regime ends. but we shouldn't try to achieve that through military goals. to do that would require the kind of massive intervention that was required in the iraq war to remove saddam from power. instead, we heard today, and from senator johnson's questions and at other points in the hearing, and from general dempsey, to pursue that goal

from diplomatic means. this is one of the issues that i believe president obama will raise with president putin in russia this week. it is our hope, rather than have a collapse of the syrian state and it breaking into factions of war and instability that threatens the entire region with the spread of terrorism and chemical weapons, that instead there could be a negotiated transition, new elections, and new accommodations in syria for a post-assad regime where that comes to an end where some semblance of peace can be restored. >> senator coombs, what is your personal time table on this issue? will there be votes in the committee tomorrow? >> i expect there will be votes maybe as soon as tomorrow. at the latest, monday, and then we'll move to consideration on the floor next week. there will be a wide range of amendments, i expect, given the wide range of opinions on our committee. and i'm spending some time

tonight and tomorrow morning, reflecting what i want to see in an ultimate forum, what sort of authorization i would be willing to vote for. we have another classified briefing tomorrow to talk more in detail about exactly what sorts of threats the assad regime poses to our regional allies, to jordan, to turkey, to israel, and what sort of focus there might be to this military strike, if it ends up being authorized by congress and carried out by our military. >> senator chris coombs, thank you for sharing your feelings tonight on this very difficult decision that has to be made. thank you. >> thank you. >> joining me now, former deputy white house adviser on foreign policy, and richard wolff, let's listen to what secretary kerry

said on this long-term issue. >> i cannot emphasize enough how much they are looking to us now, making judgments about us for the long-term, and how critical the choice we make here will be, not just to this question of syria, but to the support we may or may not anticipate in the middle east peace process. to the future of egypt. to the transformation of the middle east. to the stability of the region and other interests that we have. there is no way to separate one thing from all of the rest. relationships are relationships. and they are integrated and that is why this is so important. >> ambassador ginsburg, isn't one of the things that can't be separated from this question on the intervention in syria is iran? and how much of this is about iran? >> oh, lawrence, it is so much about iran. because after all, this is a

proxy war. this is a religious proxy war between sunni and shiite. this is a proxy war between the arab states, a war more or less between the united states and russia and israel and lebanon. and most importantly, it only shows you what you and i talked about before. syria is an extraordinarily complicated place with an extraordinary pacapacity to har everybody that touches it. >> richard wolff, are you surprised at the white house's approach to this so far? it seemed to shock washington that president obama held to some real consistency here in his view that congress should be consulted in matters like this? >> you know, actually it doesn't shock me that he was hesitant and tried to undo what seemed like a pretty firm decision last week. last week struck me more, seemed

much more uncharacteristic that he would rush quickly and without seemingly any support internationally. although you could count the french as one of the few supporters. but before an arab league statement comes out which turned out to be fairly positive. actually, this reversal is much more in keeping with who he is. and with given o-- given how things have been in the last 48 hours, this turned out to be a political domestic issue. he has republicans and departments turning out. what happens foreign policy wise is a completely different calculation. >> let's hear what secretary kerry said when he wanted to clear up the matter of boots on the ground. but there seemed to be a moment where he left open the theoretical possibility.

>> let me be clear now, i don't want anything coming out of the hearing that leaves any door open to any possibilities. so let's shut that door open, as tightly as we can. all i did was raise a hypothetical question about some possibilities, if you want to know whether -- the answer is whatever prohibition clarifies it to congress and the american people, there will not be american boots on the ground with respect to the civil war. >> ambassador ginsburg, it seems that the resolution will have to contain language forbidding the american troops from entering syria. >> lawrence, my biggest problem with this as i told you before. i have really been opposed with the obama decision to go to congress for a resolution, why? because if this ties him to and

lets assad escape and become a hero as a result of this strike and they close the window and say you can't do anything after 90 days and he goes ahead and uses chemical weapons again, well, let me tell you something. this will be a major foreign policy defeat for the united states. it will ruin our credibility. and letting assad become a hero in the middle east is the worst possible outcome. >> and richard, the white house is obviously mindful of that, which is why they drew up a draft resolution that is much broader. >> look, we don't know how this is going to play out. and i take the remarks seriously, it is very real. but obviously, if there is a point where assad is gaining propaganda power and he goes out again and strikes with chemical weapons, i find it hard to imagine that the united states congress won't vote again to extend this further and punish assad further. once america gets sucked into

this, precisely to mark's point doesn't really have a defined end. this will just continue on, this has to do with the american credibility and a statement of iran, or the force of chemical weapons will only continue as long as american troops are not on the ground. if this is conducted from what we perceive to be a safe distance, then it will continue for as long as they define it to be needed. >> richard wolff and senator ginburg, thank you for joining us. coming up, the new split in the republican party on the american intervention in the middle east. krystal ball and ari melber will join me. and politicians are wandering off their talking points and improvising and why it is driving their staffs crazy. and over the bay, the push, and why it is driving them crazy over the iraq war.

♪ let's go! ♪ [ male announcer ] you can choose to blend in. ♪ ♪ yeah! yeah! yeah! or you can choose to blend out. ♪ oh, yeah-eah! ♪ the all-new 2014 lexus is. it's your move. but you had to leave rightce to now, would you go? world, man: 'oh i can't go tonight' woman: 'i can't.' hero : that's what expedia asked me. host: book the flight but you have to go right now. hero: (laughs) and i just go? this is for real right? this is for real? i always said one day i'd go to china, just never thought it'd be today. anncr: we're giving away a trip every day. download the expedia app and your next trip could be on us. expedia, find yours.

here is the thing that i've

been trying to figure out. why would assad use chemical weapons? now, let's just assume for the moment that there is proof that he definitely did it, as you just heard senator coombs say in the last segment. but why would assad do that? knowing that it likely would provoke a military response from the united states? this makes absolutely no sense, unless you have read the dictator's handbook, which is a real book, which explains the peculiar thinking of dictators. we will see why using chemical weapons could make sense for syria's dictator, later in this program. when did you know that grandma was the one? when her sister dumped me. oh dad, you remember my friend alex?

yeah. the one that had the work done... [ male announcer ] sometimes being too transparent can be a bad thing. this looks good! [ male announcer ] but not with the oscar mayer deli fresh clear pack. it's what you see is what you get food. i get out a lot... except when it's too cold. like the last three weekends. asthma doesn't affect my job... you missed the meeting again last week! it doesn't affect my family. your coughing woke me up again. i wish you'd take me to the park. i don't use my rescue inhaler a lot... depends on what you mean by a lot. coping with asthma isn't controlling it. test your level of control at asthma.com, then talk to your doctor. there may be more you could do for your asthma. with an ultra-thin coating and fast absorbing advil ion core™ technology, it stops pain before it gets worse. nothing works faster. new fast acting advil. look for it in the white box.

>> i think the line in the sand should be that america gets involved when american interests are threatened. i don't see american interests involved on either side of the syrian war. >> a vote against that resolution by congress, i think would be a catastrophe because it would underline the credibility of the country, and the president of the united states. >> joining me now, krystal ball, and ari melber, krystal, here we have it, some americans have actually found an intervention that they don't like. >> well, you know, rand paul, is somebody like his father who would have been against basically any military intervention. but when you look at last week, and they would not go to congress for approval, first lining up saying he would go to congress for approval, and being very skeptical, you have to

think that if this were any other president, and certainly under george w. bush, there would be a much different tone coming from that caucus. >> let's listen to an exchange today from secretary kerry and rand paul on chemical weapons. >> if the united states of america doesn't do this, senator, is it more or less likely that assad does it again? you want to answer that question? >> i don't think it is known -- >> is it more or less likely he does it again? >> i think it is unknown whether or not you have the attack -- >> senator, it is not unknown, if the united states of america doesn't hold them accountable with our allies and friends, it is a guarantee that assad will do it again. a guarantee, and i urge you to go to the classified briefing and learn that. >> and ari melb oer and rand pa did that, there is one of those

cases where there are good arguments on both sides. >> i think there are, and i don't think the administration has completely outlined why this is of both national security interests and necessary at this point in time. the problem for senator paul there in both the quote you just showed, lawrence, and throughout the hearing was his argument about the constitutionality and the requirements on the president really reflected sort of a willful ignorance of recent military history, both presidents bush senior and junior invoked constitutional authority for the president to conduct the military operation and go after iraq, without the congress. and we've seen other presidents in both parties do that. we've seen it in lebanon, and iran, and korea in the earlier part of vietnam. those are precedents, whether or not they are all encouraging, which is to the military policy question, they clearly are there on the books and on the law. and so i think the republicans have the biggest problem in

trying to beat up on the president for doing something that most presidents in the modern era have done and the war powers era, which is discuss and maintain and invoke a constitutional authority, while also sometimes consulting congress. >> well, i think to be fair to rand paul and the paul family, ron paul, they have been pretty consistent on this throughout the years, i'm pretty sure rand paul if he had been in the senate would have opposed those military interventions also, and voted against the war powers act that enables all of that. >> sure. >> but i want to get to something that erupted here. rush limbaugh and the others, with this notion that assad used chemical weapons is something that has been invented. and let's listen to the way it came out on bill o'reilly show with john mccain. >> there is a contention it has been set up by the rebels who

want assad punished by the usa, get it inside that country, they did it, assad didn't do it. the float contention that is around. >> that is ludicrous and an insult to your intelligence, the rebels don't have access to those chemical weapons, to begin with. >> when you hear allies and putin say, they didn't do it, are they lying? >> of course. >> krystal, republicans like bill o'reilly would never be that skeptical about questions of going to war in the past. >> right, and they should have been. in this case, we have a very different situation, though. i mean, let's be honest, though, if the president could avoid feeling like he needed to get involved in syria he would do so. everything that we've heard and seen suggests it would be absurd to think the rebels did this. i mean, none of the attacks were in the regime-held areas. they were all in rebel-held areas. all the evidence suggests that

this was almost certainly assad. so that piece is not even to me, the real argument. i think as you said and as ari said, there are good arguments to be made on both sides in terms of intervening. i think the question is not whether or not assad used chemical weapons here. that part is clear. >> ari, the american/israel public affairs committee issued a statement today supporting the intervention of the washington group that speaks very consistently in line with the israeli government. hillary clinton has come out publicly supporting the intervention today. and we have bill columnist rysts at least now one of the consistent republicans on this. i want to listen to what he said to andrea mitchell today. >> congress did not object when assad had to go. congress didn't object when they drew the red line. he is our president. i voted against him twice, but

he won re-election, he is speaking there as president of the united states. not as leader of the democratic party, so congress has to think long and hard before just walking against the president. >> ari, there is consistency with bill crystal. >> yeah, i think they are always very interventionists, and gather the argument when convenient. but they're very comfortable going into a lot of countries. i think the affairs committee is complicated. they obviously have put out a public stance here, it is not clear how they are weighing this. they have no idea, on opposing assad, syria is more stable of the again, the fallout here, i understand the administration's concern that nothing is dangerous. you showed me secretary of state kerry's comments on that. but action also carrying a big risk factor, and that is a factor we care about. regardless of israel, you have

assad talking about working with hezbollah to go after the u.s., and ships in the mediterranean, potentially israel. that brings us back to iran as you pointed to earlier in the show, which is also a big risk. all of those things make it a big question mark in terms of where the highest risk factor is. >> krystal ball and ari melber, thank you both for joining me tonight. >> thank you. coming up, deja vu as memories of the iraq war hang over the balance. [ male announcer ] what's important to you?

at humana, our medicare agents sit down with you and ask. being active. and being with this guy. [ male announcer ] getting to know you is how we help you choose the humana medicare plan that works best for you. mi familia. ♪ [ male announcer ] we want to help you achieve your best health, so you can keep doing the things that are important to you. taking care of our customers. taking care of her. and the next thing on our list is bungee jumping. [ male announcer ] helping you -- now that's what's important to us. both of us actually.

our pharmacist recommended it. and that makes me feel pretty good about it. and then i heard about a study looking at multivitamins and the long term health benefits. and what do you know? they used centrum silver in the study. makes me feel even better, that's what i take. sorry, we take. [ male announcer ] centrum. the most recommended. most preferred. most studied. centrum, always your most complete.

back in 2001, and 2002, the threat obviously was that the next attack against the united states could come in the form of a mushroom cloud from iraq, and although there were inspectors on the ground for 100 days in iraq who could not find it, before the war started, nonetheless that war began. and i think people are understandably worried because of what did precipitate that war. >> in the spotlight tonight, the shadow of the iraq war. >> secretary hagel and i, and many of you sitting on the dais remember iraq in a special way because we were here for that

vote. we voted. and so we are especially sensitive, chuck and i, to never again asking any member of congress to take a vote on faulty intelligence. and that is why our intelligence community has scrubbed and re-scrubbed the evidence. we have declassified, unprecedented amounts of information. and we ask the american people and the rest of the world to judge that information. >> joining me now, msnbc's political analyst david corn, and author of hubris, the selling of the iraq war. david, what are the lessons in the selling of the iraq war to congress that congress should be thinking of tonight? >> i think we heard them on display -- well, we've seen them on pdisplay today. it is don't buy a pig in a poke. it is question, question,

question, we did that custodito. we asked them, and they sort of afterwards beat themselves up for not having asked enough questions taking at face value, what was sort of very slim intelligence to begin with. in this instance, though, i have to say things are dramatically rather different. you have "doctors without borders," people who don't have a dog in the intelligence fight, if you will, putting out their information on what they saw and they have treated in the tragic, nightmarish attack outside of damascus. you have information, they are being much more forthcoming and being quite careful. and again, the major difference here is that george w. bush used intelligence, faulty intelligence, misused it, abused it to get a blank check for a total invasion.

well, president obama, and kerry are asking for a much more limited access to go in and have a punitive strike. so it is a good thing that members of congress remember the lessons of iraq. i would hope that one lesson that they and others would take into account, too, is that all the cheerleaders for war back in 2002 and 2003, you know who they are. we're seeing them again on tv in the op-ed pages, bill crystal and others. and it is like, if you have -- get into a big crash when you drive, they may take your license away. but when it comes to advocating war they never take your license away if you get something wrong. >> yeah, you can never get your license taken away if you get something wrong. let's listen to what senator kerry said about using the iraq experience as a frame. >> out of ale the different agencies, because i remember in

iraq, sure, eventually the word came down, everyone agreed. but then we found out there was disagreement. to your knowledge, did they all come to the same conclusion, the various intelligence agencies? >> to my knowledge, i have no knowledge of any agency that was at the center or anybody who had you know, an alternative theory. and i do know, i think it is safe to say that they had a whole team that ran a scenario to try to test their theory to see if there was any possibility that they could come up with an alternative view to come up with it. and the answer is, they could not. >> david, is congress going to insist on a public presentation of evidence similar to what colin powell did at the united nations? >> well, as we know from that instance, a public presentation doesn't always do much good. because unless you can go back and look at the war intelligence and talk to the analysts, you know, you don't know what you're getting. they scrubbed that pretty well

for colin powell and he was a bit skeptical about his own presentation and took a lot of things out. but still, the amazing thing about the presentation ten years down the road here is that literally everything he said was false, not like most of it, not like 90% of it, but really everything in it. so we're dealing with a much more discreet, smaller event in which it should be pretty easy for the administration to convince and show members of congress, if not the public, real evidence. >> david corn, thank you for joining us tonight. >> my pleasure, lawrence. >> coming up in the rewrite, just how kooky it gets when some politicians wander off their talking points about military intervention in syria, especially, the ones who opposed the military intervention in iraq. you can see how uncomfortable nancy pelosi is with supporting her position on syria. and i will show you that in the

rewrite. [ male announcer ] these days, a small business can save by sharing. like carpools... polly wants to know if we can pick her up. yeah, we can make room. yeah. [ male announcer ] ...office space. yes, we're loving this communal seating. it's great. [ male announcer ] the best thing to share? a data plan. at&t mobile share for business.

one bucket of data for everyone on the plan, unlimited talk and text on smart phones. now, everyone's in the spirit of sharing. hey, can i borrow your boat this weekend? no. [ male announcer ] share more. save more. at&t mobile share for business. ♪ i'm on expert on softball. and tea parties. i'll have more awkward conversations than i'm equipped for, because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy more than a few times before they're grown. but it's for them, so i've found a way. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your future? we'll help you get there. [ agent smith ] i've found software that intrigues me. it appears it's an agent of good.

♪ [ agent smith ] ge software connects patients to nurses to the right machines while dramatically reducing waiting time. [ telephone ringing ] now a waiting room is just a room. [ static warbles ] mom? come in here. come in where? welcome to my mom cave. wow. sit down. you need some campbell's chunky soup before today's big game, new chunky cheeseburger. mmm. i love cheeseburgers. i know you do. when did you get this place? when i negotiated your new contract, it was part of the deal. cool. [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. it fills you up right. this weekend, ruth bader

ginsburg became the first justice to be at the wedding of a same-sex marriage. kaiser is a personal friend of the justice. the justice is set to have another same-sex marriage later this month. and the things said about the military intervention in syria, they were said by people who many of you like, very much. that is next. it steals your memories. your independence. ensures support, a breakthrough. and sooner than you'd like. sooner than you'd think. you die from alzheimer's disease. we cure alzheimer's disease. every little click, call or donation adds up to something big. life's an adventure and it always has been.

but your erectile dysfunction - it could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. but, dad, you've got...

[ voice of dennis ] allstate. with accident forgiveness, they guarantee your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. [ voice of dennis ] indeed. are you in good hands?

about yoplait's fall favorites. so we brought pumpkin pie and apple crisp back for a limited time. see? you really do call the shots. ♪ yoplait. it is so good. congressional staffers work hard writing talking points for their bosses so they answer reporters questions on the fly. house members and senators are frequently caught in the hallways by reporters, and they have to have something to say about almost everything.

and no one can always be ready with something to say about almost everything, hence, teleprompters for news stations and politicians. it is the rare politician who is well versed enough and well spoken enough to wisely handle any question at any time. so nothing terrifies most congressional staffers more than their bosses going beyond the talking points. you know, rewriting the talking points, by adding some after thought that was not written for them. >> i'll tell you this story, and then i have to go. my 5-year-old grandson as i left san francisco yesterday, he said to me, mimi, my name, mimi, war with syria, are you yes with syria or no with syria? >> and at that point, nancy pelosi staffers were tearing their hair out.

now, they will of course deny that for the record, loyal the way they are, but there is no one or should be no one on the nancy pelosi staff who thinks that that was the time and place for us to learn that nancy pelosi's grandchildren call her mimi. and there is no one or should be no one on the nancy pelosi staff who thinks anyone in the world was waiting to hear what a 5-year-old thought about war with syria in the white house driveway after congressional leaders, possibly most important meeting with president obama ever. >> i said, well, what do you think? he said i think no war. i said well, i generally agree with that. but you know they have killed hundreds of children there. they have killed hundreds of children, and he said 5 years old, were these children in the united states? no, but they're children,

wherever they are. so i don't know what news he is listening to, but even a 5-year-old child has to you know, with the wisdom of our interests, how does it affect our interests? >> this is what happens when politicians are uncomfortable with their public positions. now, i'm not saying that nancy pelosi doesn't firmly believe that president obama has chosen the right course in syria. i'm just saying this is an uncomfortable area for her, supporting military intervention. nancy pelosi wisely voted against the authorization for the iraq war. she was then voting in sync with her constituents in san francisco, and in sync with hth failed experiments in vietnam.

no matter how right she thinks she is with her positions, when politicians become uncomfortable with their positions and talking points then they reach. they nervously reach for more ammunition and find themselves talking about 5-year-olds, or worse, their own childhood. >> i have listened to my colleagues particularly express concern as to whether the actions that we conceive would in fact deter or evade the ability of assad to conduct chemical weapons attacks in the future. >> okay, so far, so good. but this as at the very end of a three and a half hour hearing today. and chairman menendez' staff clearly had not written a closing statement for the senator. and as

and so this is what he actually said next. >> and i'm reminded in a much different context of an experience i had in my own life. and general dempsey is actually from my own area, jersey city. and i grew up in a tough neighborhood. and we had a bully in the neighborhood. and i was walking along the street one day. and he just slapped me in the face and i went away. and told my mom, and she said avoid him. avoid him. just avoid him. >> okay, this is where the menendez staff is just tearing their hair out. they never dreamed that their guy was going to do something as childish on national television as compare dealing with a chemical weapon-wielding dictator to dealing with a childhood bully in bayonne. >> and a week later, i saw the bully again, and i did all of my best to avoid him.

and this time he punched me in the nose. and it was bloody and i went back to her and said you know, mom, i tried to avoid him. she said well, just avoid him. and it was not until a third time that we were by a construction site that i got a piece of wood and whacked the bully, and that was the end of it. i never got whacked again. it is not quite this, but there is a lesson to be learned. >> no, it is not quite like this, and no, there is no lesson to be learned. there is absolutely no foreign relations lesson to learn from that bully story which i don't believe word for word. you attack a bayonne bully with a piece of wood, and chances are he is going to whack you again, and you go home to your mother and cry again. and funny thing about the

bayonne story? congressman menendez didn't use that story, wisely against authorizing president george w. bush to whack that last bully in that neighborhood, saddam hussein. easily. we don't believe you should be a victim of someone else's mistake. we're lifelock. we constantly monitor the web so if any of your personal information is misused, we're on it. ♪ ow. [ male announcer ] call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. when her sister dumped me. oh dad, you remember my friend alex? yeah. the one that had the work done... [ male announcer ] sometimes being too transparent can be a bad thing. this looks good! [ male announcer ] but not with the oscar mayer deli fresh clear pack.

it's what you see is what you get food.

up next, why assad used chemical weapons. you go? man: 'oh i can't go tonight' you go? woman: 'i can't.' hero : that's what expedia asked me. host: book the flight but you have to go right now. hero: (laughs) and i just go? this is for real right? this is for real? i always said one day i'd go to china, just never thought it'd be today. anncr: we're giving away a trip every day. download the expedia app and your next trip could be on us. expedia, find yours. i get out a lot... except when it's too cold. like the last three weekends.

asthma doesn't affect my job... you missed the meeting again last week! it doesn't affect my family. your coughing woke me up again. i wish you'd take me to the park. i don't use my rescue inhaler a lot... depends on what you mean by a lot. coping with asthma isn't controlling it. test your level of control at asthma.com, then talk to your doctor. there may be more you could do for your asthma. ♪ [ male announcer ] bob's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen.

here is the question that most of congress is just rushing right past without asking. why would assad use chemical weapons? knowing that it could provoke this kind of intervention that is being contemplated now. well, there is a book that can help answer that question. "the dictator's handbook." that is a real title. why bad behavior is almost all good politics. today, co-author alistair smith said that assad does not use chemical weapons to punish the rebels, but to send a signal to his core supporters. first of all, using chemical weapon has absolutely cemented for assad that there can be no soft landings, that has two effects, the domestic and the coalition that they should stick with him. he is there for the long run, and there is no easy way out for him, and so they know they won't

desert him. these crimes against humanity makes it clear they will be even more loyal to him. they have nowhere else to go. joining me, the professor that created the research that led to the dictator's handbook. professor, it is the thing i've been wondering about for days now, and only through the dictator's handbook does it begin to make sense, dictators don't think like any other leaders, do they? >> no, they live in a very, very different political world. >> and this perspective, this message is all to shore up his support and make sure his supporters in syria know that he is in there for the long haul. he has now committed a kind of crime that does not allow him any way out of syria. >> absolutely.

for assad, this war is a matter of life and death. and the only people he can rely on are his supporters. and therefore, it is critical that he holds their loyalty. they're the people who fight for him and they do his killing for him. by committing unspeakable atrocities, he makes sure that if his side loses, they will be at grave risk. therefore they will fight harder for him. >> as we heard from the evidence earlier, what would you suggest the senator concentrate on in terms of proof that assad has used chemical weapons? >> in general, i have studied chemical weapons and when they're used. because they're typically controlled very tightly by government, when it is used it is almost always done by government. so i would look as closely as i can, to trace the links back to

the assad government. but personally, i have little doubt that assad's government carried out these attacks and did so deliberately. >> why do you have little doubt about it given your experience? >> because there is other strategic advantage to this. there is an interesting aspect to the attack. if you recall about three months ago, the tide to the civil war in syria changed. and the rebels stopped gaining ground and the government forces began to move them back. so why would you use chemical weapons when you're winning? well, if you notice the neighborhood this is done in, damascus, is an area held by the rebels for months now. by using these weapons and doing so in a very public fashion, it scares the civilians and moves them out so you can bring in the rebels so they can clean out the neighborhood. if you notice, the total number of refugees in the syrian civil war is over 2 million and increasing quickly. i think this is just another attempt to drive out the

civilians so his forces can use the utmost brutality to win this war. >> and quickly, is there a way to conduct a way good evening from good evening from washington, d.c. i'm chris hayes. tonight on "all in," the contested case for war in syria as the secretaries of state and defense face the foreign relations committee. they find a senate much like the country divided across unlikely lines. we will debate it all here coming up. also tonight, president obama is heading to russia. who he is going to meet with may