grease to have you with us tonight. thank you. that is "the ed show." "politicsnation" with reverend al sharpton starts right now. rev? >> yes, ed. thank you. and thank you for tuning in. tonight's lead, president obama wins the first vote on syria late today. a key senate panel voted to approve a resolution authorizing the use of military force against the syrian regime. it sets up a vote with the full senate expected early next week. it came just hours after president obama speaking overseas in sweden insisted the world must take action. >> first of all, i didn't set a red line. the world set a red line. my credibility is not on the line. the international community's credibility is on the line. and america and congress' credibility is on the line because we give lip service to

the notion that these international norms are important. >> and today secretary of state john kerry was back on capitol hill telling house lawmakers that america's credibility is on the line. >> the world is wondering whether the united states of america is going to consent through silence, to stand aside while this brutality is allowed to happen without consequence. >> this is a serious issue that deserves serious debate today. many americans still have real reservations about the plan for syria. and it's to the president's great credit that he has taken this resolution to congress for an open debate with the nation watching. it's what is supposed to happen in a representative democracy. joining me now is karen finney. thanks for coming on the show. >> good to be with you, rev.

>> karen, what does the senate committee vote today tell us about the president's support in congress and the rest of the country? >> well, what i think tells us is two things. number one, it sounds like senators have the questions we know they've had in terms of the scope and putting some limitations on what the president will actually do in this action. sounds like senators were able to agree on language and that they got the questions that they needed answered at least in that committee. they got those answers from senator kerry and the others who were briefing them. that's what that suggests. >> now, here's what the senate relations committee approved. a 60-day authorization of military action with a 30-day extension possible. and importantly, no ground forces for combat operations. that's what they authorized. >> that's correct, rev. and i'm assuming i think because there's still a fair question --

i know it's a question that i have on the ground which is so what happens the day after we stop the strikes? what are we doing in terms of a political solution, a diplomatic solution, are there other avenues we're pursuing? i'd like to believe that in the classified sessions they had some of those questions answered. because i think part of the reason so many americans are leery about this is we have heard a lot of this before. obviously the evidence here is very different and i think people trust president obama in a way they didn't trust president bush. at the same time we all know what mission creep looks like and that's where the concern is. >> richard wolffe has joined us. a lot of people on the right, on the left have serious questions. including me. trust the president but don't agree with military intervention. when you look at what the senate foreign relations committee voted today, what happens if there is no response in the time

limit and the boundaries that have been set? then what happens? >> no response from the syrians or -- >> from the syrians. if there's no evidence that this has changed assad from moving forward in the way that clearly this is designed to try to push him back. >> one thing we know is that it's going to be unpredictable. i don't mean to sound like donald rumsfeld here, but this will fall in unpredictable ways. assad is not going to roll over and give up. this is a man determined to cling onto power to such a degree prepared to kill his own civilians with unconventional weapons. if he is going to react in any number of different ways included rely on allies like hezbollah and iran. the question is going to be how does the united states react when he lashes out, when he attacks civilians, when there's another humanitarian crisis. >> or there is no reaction. if he waits and does nothing for

90 days, then what? >> he will hold onto power and thumb his nose at americans. this isn't a regime change mission. in which case we're not trying to clear out his palaces and bunkers. however, command and control targets will be targeted. they're not just going after the chemical supplies. they couldn't because that would unleash those chemicals on everyone else. this is going to be difficult. there are models for it to work. kosovo is one bosnia another. but this is going on and on. congress is boxing itself in, not the president. >> karen, a lot of people are concerned is this potentially another iraq. the president emphasized again today that this is not the same as the iraq war. listen. >> keep in mind i'm somebody who opposed the war in iraq. and am not interested in repeating mistakes of us basing

decisions on faulty intelligence. but having done a thorough evaluation of the information that is credible, i can say with high confidence chemical weapons were used. >> now, with the president's red line, why was there no call for military response? but before we get to that, tell me your response on the president in iraq. >> i believe and i have great respect for the president, secretary kerry, everyone. i believe that they believe the intelligence that they're seeing. i believe they believe this is a way to go in and to try to send a message to assad. the problem is as we all know, we saw it in iraq where we weren't prepared for counterinsurgency. we're seeing it in afghanistan. we're seeing iraq sort of crumble before our very eyes. there is a sort of what happens next that we can't predict. and i think that's where the questions are. as much as i believe the

president that his intention at this moment is no boots on the ground, no quagmire like in iraq, how's that going to happen? if we're not going to have political change on the ground in syria, then essentially we're sort of putting off, you know, an on-going failed state that creates a real problem in the region. >> now, richard, i agree with the president going to congress. even though i don't deal with the military intervention. i think it's the right thing to do. but it's gotten ugly first day that the congress is getting involved. some republicans tried to make this debate about the president, not about syria. listen to congressman joe wilson who infamously shouted "you lie" during the presidential address in 2009. listen to joe wilson. >> with the president's red line, why was there no call for

military response in april? was it delayed to divert attention today from the benghazi, irs, nsa scandals, obama care enforcement, the sequestration, or the upcoming debt limit vote? >> so what wilson is trying to say, going with karen. is he saying when the president first brought out this red line, why didn't we have military action then? because now we're calling for it so we can divert attention from the attack in benghazi where the american diplomats was killed or from the nsa scandal or the irs scandal or the failure of obama care. i mean, he actually said today in public with folk watching that maybe this was timed because we wanted to divert attention from benghazi, irs, et cetera. it doesn't get much more uglier

than that. >> yeah. it was the irs. we may as well throw up our hands and say it was all about the irs. he's going to military strikes to the irs. you wonder if joe wilson could actually go lower than he did before? it turns out even when he's reading from talking points, he can go lower. i do think that if you look at the totality of house republicans, this is an interesting dynamic about how this is going across the party lines and the fault lines -- exposing those fault lines within the party. you've got the house republican leadership coming out here along with nancy pelosi saying yes we agree. joe wilson is even more of an outlier to what's left of the republican party than he was before. i don't think it's challenging on a political basis for the president. what looked like a tremendous gamble over the weekend now looks a lot safer in the politics and foreign policy. >> the politics is much different.

richard wolffe, karen finney, thank you for your time tonight. and watch "disrupt" with karen finney weekends at 4:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. coming up, look out america. donald rumsfeld is trying to give you some advice. the gop's convenient amnesia when it comes to iraq. plus the secretary of explaining stuff. former president bill clinton today selling president obama's health care law. we'll tell you what he said about the republicans. and the stunning suicide of ariel castro. how could this happen? and what are the victims saying tonight? also, what's on your mind? e-mail me. friend or foe, i want to know. reply al is ahead. hero: if you had a chance to go anywhere in the world,

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have you joined the "politicsnation" conversation on facebook yet? we hope you will. today people were looking forward to hearing president obama's secretary of explaining stuff talk about healthry form. tisha says these two men working together are unstoppable. vickie says great move. they need to keep it up. patricia says i am glad he is going to explain the facts about the affordable care act and stop the lying by the republicans. well, we'll see about that. we've got more from president clinton's big speech coming up next. but first, we want to hear what you think too. please head over to facebook and search "politicsnation" and like us to join the conversation that keeps going long after the show ends. ♪

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let me ask you something. are we better off because president obama fought for health care reform? you bet we are. >> former president clinton's speech at the democratic convention last year led to president obama givie ining himw title. secretary of explaining stuff. the title fit and the role stuck. today the secretary was back at it in a speech at his presidential library in arkansas, he made the case for president obama's health care law. >> more than 3 million young adults under 26 now have health

care coverage on their parents' plan. 6.6 million seniors pay less for prescription drugs. 105 million americans have seen the limits, the lifetime limits on their insurance coverage abolished. 27 million women. 26 million men have been extended preventive benefits with no cost sharing. 17 million children with pre-existing conditions -- 17 million can no longer be denied coverage or charged higher rates for it. >> the former president also took aim at right wingers trying to block the law. >> in congress there have been 40 votes to repeal this law, but no real alternatives presented to fix the current system. we're going to do better working together and learning together than we will trying over and over again to repeal the law or

rooting for reform to fail. we all get paid to show up for work. >> we're now less than a month from the last major piece of the health care law going into effect. the sooner the gop gets on board and the misinformation stops, the better for everyone. joining me now are margie o'mara and ryan grim. thank you for coming on the show. >> good evening, reverend. >> margie, will the secretary of explaining stuff help cut through all the gop misinformation about this law? >> well, it'll certainly help for two main reasons. first is he gets coverage, and the second is he's incredibly credible. he's popular. the last poll i saw showed former president clinton with 71% favorability rating. so when he talks, people listen to him and listen to what he has to say. and that speech, however, i will point out is not like his convention speech. it was really more of a policy speech. and i think that underscores

that this shouldn't be about politics. it shouldn't be about the political back and forth. we're now getting to the sign-up time, october 1st, and it's important to really spell out the important changes that obama care will have for people who really need it. rather than the politics that you see on the other side where people deliberately say i'm an obstructionist or i'm going to take votes that aren't going anywhere. and it's -- people's lives are at stake. and it's costing taxpayers money just to perpetuate that political back and forth. >> now, it was not a speech like the democratic convention speech. it was a policy speech. and he made the case that the new law is a big upgrade from our current system. watch this. >> it's better than the current system. which is unaffordable and down right unhealthy for millions of americans. number two, it gives states the chance to devise programs that work best for them.

and their populations. this does give us the best chance we've had to achieve nearly universal coverage, provide higher quality health care, and lower the rate of cost increases which we have got to do in a competitive global economy. >> to compare it to our present system, is that the way to help sell this, ryan? >> i think that's one of the most unspoken -- one of the biggest unspoken problems that the republicans have is that they kept saying far long time we're going to repeal and replace. but we saw the repeal 40 times but they have since dropped even the pretense that they're going to replace it with anything. which means that they're backing the status quo system. and nobody who has experienced the health care system and that's just top 1% can say that that system works. the costs are out of control. and outcomes are poor. there's just no question that --

and people understand that in a visceral way because they have experienced that. and i think what you're going to see after october 1st is not just the campaign from clinton and other democrats but a real word of mouth campaign where people start saying hey, you know, i just got health insurance for my entire family for $250. $250 for the month? no, $250 for the whole year. they'll say where can i get that? i think that kind of thing is just going to go from person to person and you're going to see a lot of signups. and that's what republicans are worried about. >> but, you know, margie, tea party senator marco rubio is calling for tv ads about obama care to be canceled. the ads will go up in 16 different metro areas and help explain the law to millions of people. but senator rubio says they're a blatant misuse of federal funds. at the same time 80 house

republicans are now urging speaker boehner to block funding for obama care. so the opposition is still there and still trying to stop this. >> yeah. it's terrible. i mean, really they're trying to make a political point. they want obama care to fail because that will hurt the president. but really it's going to hurt their own constituents who need this help. they need lower cost affordable health care. they need it to survive. they need it so their children can go to the doctor. and it's unconscionable that people would use children and families really as a pawn in a political game. it's really outrageous. and people should be outraged. unfortunately there are a lot of folks working on getting people to sign up. they're going door to door and going to neighborhood festivals and county fairs to get people to sign up. and ryan's right. it's going to take some time for people to have some personal experiences. health care is complicated. it's complicated for me

navigating for my own family. and it's complicated for a lot of people navigating for their own family. and so it's just going to take time for people to have personal experience. >> yet, ryan, americans are firmly opposed to defunding obama care. a new poll out today shows just 6% of registered voters favored the defunding and delaying of the health care law. >> and what's so amazing and what's so silly about this entire national conversation is that republicans can't defund obama care. you know, the republican base seems to think that if they shut the government down, then therefore there is no money for obama care. i can understand why logically you would believe that, but what they don't understand is there's a difference between mandatory spending and discretionary spending. it's complicated, but this is mandatory spending which means that even if the government shuts down, they can close all the parks, all the federal

buildings. the mandatory money for obama care keeps flowing. so the only way they could shut down obama care is to pass a bill through the house, through the senate, and have the president sign it into law. and that just is not going to happen. >> you would think members of congress would know how it works. let me ask you while i have you, a headline that you wrote. former boehner aide and gop sources expect house speaker will step down after the 2014 election. you wrote this story today in the "huffington post." what can you tell us? >> well, boehner has a lot of reasons for wanting to step down after 2014. it's not the same job running the house that it used to be. it's awfully difficult. and, you know, he likes to live the good life. so while he has plenty of

reasons on that hand, on the other hand, he -- it's very unlikely he could even win another election for speaker. a lot of the tea partiers pulled back at the last minute last time and said we're going to give you a pass this time. here's two more years. if three more tea partiers say we're not supporting speaker boehner, then he doesn't become speaker. because you need an absolute majority. and there's no indication and the people around boehner don't believe that they have that amount of support. look what he's got to deal with. the syria vote, immigration reform, debt ceiling, government shutdown. so even if he could get it now, it's extremely unlikely that he can find the votes. >> has the office responded to you on the record at all on this? >> they did. they said, you know, boehner has said publicly that he intends to stay in his position and that's

their public position. and also they have to say that. if he doesn't fund raise and doesn't keep up all the pretenses that he's staying next term, he immediately loses all of his power. so you have to say that you're staying. >> all right. i'm going to have you leave it there. thanks for your time tonight. >> thank you. >> thank you. ahead, the mission accomplished gang is giving us advice on syria. donald rumsfeld is back and has the gall to take pot shots at president obama. plus the suicide of ariel castro. we'll go live to cleveland to find out exactly what happened in that prison cell. and what castro's victims are saying tonight. stay with us. my asthma's under control. i get out a lot... except when it's too cold. like the last three weekends. asthma doesn't affect my job...

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who's the last person americans should listen to when it comes to military actions overseas? how about donald rumsfeld? one of the architects of the iraq war is back and he's giving america some advice when it comes to syria. that's next. ...amelia... neil and buzz: for teaching us that you can't create the future... by clinging to the past. and with that: you're history. instead of looking behind... delta is looking beyond.

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former secretary of defense, donald rumsfeld. the man who planned the iraq war. today he had the nerve to criticize president obama. >> the essence of leadership is clarity and a vision. the so-called commander in chief has not been acting as a commander in chief. >> rumsfeld today doubling down on the attacks he made against president obama last night. >> the president is not, in my view, providing the kind of leadership that i think almost any president in my adult lifetime would be providing. now, why do people criticize this? well, you want to blame somebody. if you want to learn how to blame, watch your president. this is one time you'd like to see him suck it up and take responsibility for something.

>> take responsibility for something? that's laughable. because rumsfeld never took responsibility for the disaster of the iraq war. >> there are known knowns. there are things we know we know. >> it could last, you know, six days, six weeks, i doubt six months. >> there are known unknowns. we know there are some things we do not know. as you know, you go to the army you have. not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time. but there are also unknown unknowns. the ones we don't know we don't know. >> turns out, there were a lot of things donald rumsfeld didn't know. and whatever you think about getting involved in syria, he's the last person the american people should listen to. right now too many republicans have developed a case of convenient amnesia. forgetting the lessons of iraq and ducking the tough questions

on syria. joining me now, former congressman patrick murphy and cynthia tucker. thank you both for your time. >> thanks, rev. >> good to be here, rev. >> congressman, donald rumsfeld on taking responsibility, i mean is there anything more pathetic? >> there really is not. it's not just amnesia about the iraq war. but look ten years earlier saddam hussein used chemical weapons on his own people in the 1990s. in the '80s, he used chemical weapons on the iranians. and iraq said saddam hussein at the time was getting materials under president reagan. to me it's like bizarre-o-world. these folks were so eager to get us into every single war, every foreign entanglement. don't know their history.

>> cynthia, when you look at the right wing pundits, they must have forgot the role rumsfeld played in the iraq war. listen to one of the questions he was asked on fox this morning. >> you know that senator kerry has called them a friend and you know that hillary clinton's called them an agent for change. do you blame assad for getting mixed signals from the people now asked for war from the people that once put their friendship out? >> cynthia? >> on the subject of hand of friendship, it's incredible to me, rev. rumsfeld and cheney deserve a place in the hall of fame for people who have the most incredible gall. there is an infamous photo of

donald rumsfeld in the 1980s shaking saddam hussein's hand. >> we have it on screen right now. we can show you that. right there. >> and he has the nerve to talk about the hand of friendship? but, you know, none of these -- none of the republicans -- not cheney, not rumsfeld, not any of the republicans in congress have been able to utter the word iraq. it hangs over this entire debate, but none of them -- i guess they think we all have forgotten about what a disaster it was that a republican president and cheney and rumsfeld led us into. >> well, that's the point. that is why i think we must make sure we don't forget the lessons. and it seems to me the more i hear, congressman, the more it seems that republicans have lost their way on foreign policy. they really don't have a clear

focus and a clear vision on what their foreign policy is. whether i agree with it or not, they seem to be all over the place. and more beating up on president obama than laying out a real plan pro or con on what to do with our foreign policy. >> that's right, rev. the republicans are like the hatfields and mccoys when it comes to foreign policy. they are all over the map. they have the neocons who are pushing not just for a targeted strike but almost some boots on the ground and other isolati isolationist is. they're only unified by pointing at barack obama. they forget their own history. in that picture you just showed, in 1980, the iraq people -- saddam hussein used chemical weapons against the iranians.

1990, he used chemical weapons on his own people. they didn't do anything about it. now that barack obama's in charge, they're say iing so-cald commander in chief. how disrespectful. >> and then they're flip-flopping. look at sean hannity. last week he pushed back when he heard that president obama did need congressional approval. listen to this. >> i don't think the president does have to go to congress to bomb someone. he's the commander in chief under the constitution. if it were necessary, a commander in chief could do it. i do not -- well, i'm right. so let's just leave it there and move on. >> i disagree, but go ahead. >> but listen to what he said once the president did go to congress, cynthia. >> why now? is he trying to push the blame if this goes wrong onto you guys in the house and senate?

>> now, last week the president should go to congress. but when he does, he's using them as a scapegoat. that's a big change of heart in a week, cynthia. >> well, they're capable of changing their minds in a few days or a few hours. whatever the president is for, they're against. if they were for it yet and the president decides he's for it, then they're against it. i mean, there are a couple of other republicans who have been notorious for that. inhofe last year was calling on the president to enforce this red line against syria. and now he's saying he, you know, he doesn't want to support the president on this. so when the president didn't b seem inclined to take military action, there were republicans criticizing him for that. now that he seems inclined towards military action, some of the very same republicans are still criticizing him so the

only foreign policy they have is if the president is for it, we're against it. >> and, you know, the thing that is alarming is they get bizarre. rush limbaugh has another theory on why republicans are in such disarray. listen to the head of the republican party, mr. limbaugh. >> the republicans/conservative right is just as confused about all of this because they're scared to death to say or do anything critical of obama. they're just paralyzed. and we all have a pretty good guess why that is. it's race. >> so they don't know what to do about syria because the president is black. i mean, this is as bizarre as it gets. >> it is bizarre. it's bizarre world.

they are not paralyzed. they are unified in being against whatever president obama is for. the proof is in the pudding. they were for health care when it was mitt romney's governor and it was a heritage idea. but when barack obama became president, they were against it. immigration reform. now the republicans are against it. and now with foreign policy. foreign policy should be the last place they're playing politics. because we're talking about sons and daughters of americans. >> but they're afraid to be critical, congressman, because of race. because he's black. if they're afraid to be critical, then i'd hate to see them when they start being critical. >> i don't know what newspapers rush limbaugh is reading out in missouri, but they aren't the ones where i live. >> congressman patrick murphy, cynthia tucker, thank you both for your time. >> thank you. >> good to be here. ahead, serious questions about the suicide of ariel castro. how it happened and what his

victims are saying tonight. but first, advancing the dream. what happened to that little rock nine? those that we called the little rock nine on this day all those years ago? and what it means in the fight for equality today. stay with us. this is for you. ♪ [ male announcer ] bob's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. mom? come in here. come in where? welcome to my mom cave. wow. sit down. you need some campbell's chunky soup before today's big game, new chunky cheeseburger. mmm. i love cheeseburgers. i know you do.

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half a century ago today, a major moment in the fight for civil rights. on this day in 1957, arkansas segregationist governor called in the national guard to stop nine black students from entering little rock high school. he was defying the supreme court of the united states which had issued the brown versus board of education decision striking down separate but equal doctrine in american schools. it wasn't until later that september when president eisenhower sent in federal troops that nine teenagers were able to attend the school. the little rock nine as they came to be called changed the course of this country's history forever. that's what progress looks like. people fighting for what's right with the courage of their convictions. at the march on washington 50 years ago, americans join hands

to recognize a dream of equality. now we're looking ahead to the next 50 years. advancing the dream for generations to come. that's why i'm hosting a special show this friday night live from the apollo theater to celebrate how far we've come and yet the work that is yet to be done. join me along with magic johnson, stevie wonder, tyler perry, and condoleezza rice for an msnbc special "advancing the dream" live from the apollo. this friday at 9:00 p.m. eastern time. we hope to see you there. ♪

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i am not a violent predator

as they say. i'm not a monster. i'm a normal person. i am just sick. i have an addiction. just like an alcoholic has an addiction. >> the story of cleveland kidnapper ariel castro rocked the country. and we woke up this morning to another shocking turn. castro was found dead in his prison cell. an apparent suicide. the coroner believes he hung himself using a bed sheet from his cell. he had served just one month of a life sentence of plus-1,000 years for the abduction and repeated rape of three young ohio women. for his three victims, this is yet another way in which the system has failed them. they were held captive for decades in a house of horrors without ever being found. that is until one of them amanda berry made this frantic phone call to police. >> 911. >> hello police. help me i'm amanda berry.

>> you need police, fire, ambulance? >> i need police. >> okay. what's going on there? >> i've been kidnapped. i've been missing for ten years. i'm here. i'm free now. >> yes, they are free. and today their captor is dead. but once again, the system has failed them denying them the justice they sought. the question is how did this happen? joining me now is someone who's been following this case from the very beginning scott taylor, investigative reporter with woio tv in cleveland. and wendy murphy, a former child abuse and sex crimes prosecutor. thank you both for coming on the show tonight. >> glad to be here. >> good to be here. >> scott, you've been making calls on the story all day. what can you tell us? >> well, i can tell you i think ohio prison system has a big problem on their hand. it's a maximum security prison. ariel castro was in a cell by

himself 12 by 8 feet. he just had a bunk in there. state law gives him hygiene products and also a uniform, a top and a bottom, and a bed sheet. somehow he took that bed sheet, wrapped it around his neck according to the coroner's office and killed himself. but how in the world does this happen? he was not under suicide watch. what they were doing is visiting him every 30 minutes to check on him. last night about 9:00, i believe he was there. he was checked on. then he had a 20-minute window, reverend. and this is where things get really strange. you know, this guy is a master manipulator. he is a tough cookie. and on top of that, he is a control freak. so i think he wanted to get to the state prison, things relaxed on the security, and then he would decide who kills him, how he dies, and when. and he wanted that to be ariel castro on all three. >> now, scott, we've got details today on the conditions.

some of which you have outlined. castro was held in, he was not on suicide watch. he was in a cell by himself. guards made rounds every 30 minutes. and his attorney says a request for a psychological evaluation was denied. now, was the system doing what was appropriate to prevent a suicide here? >> well, i would think that a judge, a court would put some type of psychological test with them. you saw in court during his sentencing, the judge believed that he was saying -- the psychologist believed he was saying, they almost were calling him evil. you would think tests would be made. you know, this guy again is a great actor. i think he fooled the people here in cleveland when he was here for three months. he was on what's called suicide precaution. never a suicide watch. they never thought he was going to hurt himself, but he was a high-profile inmate so they wanted to get him to court.

then he decided to go to -- fool the people on the state level. i think they bought it hook line and sinker. >> now, wendy, at castro's trial, a letter he wrote was displayed where he admitted quote, i am a sexual predator. some have called that a suicide note. what do you think? authorities have been aware that castro was a suicide risk, wendy. >> yeah. i mean, back in june he was being treated as a prisoner at risk for suicide. and remember that was before he was found guilty and put on display for the entire world to watch when he made those wild remarks in court and was found guilty of being a monster no matter what he said. you would think that if he was on suicide watch in june that it would have been an even greater risk after he was found guilty and sent off to prison. something doesn't seem right here. and i don't feel bad for the guy. frankly, after that performance in court in early august, if i

can speak for most people in this country, i would have kicked him in the perverted man parts myself and knocked the guy dead if i could have. that's how angry i felt. but it's different when you are in state custody. the government owns you and they have a special duty to protect you. so i -- you know, i'm still suspicious. i'm dubious that we've heard the whole story yet. maybe he did want to die. he didn't strike me as a guy who felt so bad. he'd struck me as a guy who couldn't have cared less about anybody especially his victims. and that's not really the type who you think is going to kill himself. now, whether somebody else got to him, i don't know. possibility. >> scott, talking about victims. at his sentencing last month, michelle knight, one of the women he held captive had this to say. listen to this. >> the death penalty would be so much easier. you don't deserve that. you deserve to spend life in prison.

i have forgave you, but i will never forget. i spent 11 years in hell. now your hell is just beginning. >> how devastating is this for the victims, scott? >> well, i think they're quite upset over this. they believed in the justice system. they said we want the justice system to play out. we want this man to go away for the rest of his life. amanda berry, gina dejesus, michelle knight made it clear they weren't interested in the death penalty. they wanted him to spend the rest of his life in jail. michelle made it clear. i'm going to continue to enjoy my life every single day and while you're in prison you're going to die a little bit every day. >> wendy, from 2001 to 2011 there were 63 suicides committed at ohio state prisons. not a whole lot. and clearly this had to be probably the most high-profile prisoner they've had since 2001.

>> yeah. i mean, it does happen. people do get away with committing suicide. sometimes murder happens in prison. we know there are crimes that occur there despite all the watchful eyes of guards. and it's just so creepy to imagine that if you can't be protected from killing yourself in prison where you are supposedly such an important prisoner that everybody's watching you extra, then, you know, i'm not sure everybody's doing their job. no one should be able to commit suicide in prison. it's not asking a lot to be able to at least keep these guys alive. >> that's a good point. >> they're in open cells with bars. you know, they can't hide. it doesn't make sense to me. >> i've got to go. thank you. it's a good point. thank you wendy murphy. scott taylor. a gruesome story, but thank you for coming to discuss it. we'll be right back with reply al. i'm a careful investor.

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something you do that nobody knows you do. two things. i told him i would answer them on the air. i love to read. and the other thing i like to do, i'm not going to tell you. those that know won't tell and those that tell don't know. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. rumors of war. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris mete yoous in washington. let me start tonight with this. what is it that makes me resist all this? what is it that makes me ask why attacking syria and killing a bunch of people there would be a signal to the people running syria that they were wrong to kill a bunch of people in syria? we shoot cruise missiles into the country bb kill