wooing the world is day two of president obama's overseas trip. and while the focus was supposed to be on the world economy, the crisis in syria is quickly dominating the g-20 sidelines. the president is trying to shore up support from its allies. our friends at politico point out president obama is walking a fine line with g-20 host vladimir putin. obama will face the delicate task of trying to paint putin as an obstacle to justice in syria without picking fights with other countries that have expressed skepticism about a military response to the chemical weapons attack. how is this playing out so far, chuck? >> reporter: good evening here, abby. it is actually dinner time, and that's an important point because right now is this working dinner that's going on between the 20 world leaders at the g-20. as vladimir putin putting at the

meeting of the g-20 leaders, he said, let's not talk about syria now, let's wait until the working dinner. what i'm told the president wants to do at this dinner is lay out his case. frankly, it's the same case that we've heard publicly. it's the same case that many senators and many members of congress have heard privately from the president. he's going to lay out his case why he believes this action is necessary. what white house aids hope to get out of this dinner. they know they won't get putin on their side and they know they won't get china on their side. they hope to get 10 countries on their side. they think that's doable if you throw in korea, canada, australia. they think that would be an important symbolic gesture. if every one of these leaders will hold a press conference, if 10 of them make public statements in support of the idea of stopping assad from using chemical weapons, that that could be helpful to the white house as they continue to

try to lobby democrats on capitol hill because ultimately as much as this dinner is important and what's going on here in russia is important, a lot of the traveling white house here, they're only watching what's going on on capitol hill. everything here is now designed to what can be done here to accomplish the goal of convincing particularly wayward democrats and skeptical house democrats that there is an international support group and that they can get this done. we'll see. it will be interesting to find out. does putin push back? does this become a debate between putin and the president? that's unclear. putin seemed like he might be ready to debate when he called john kerry a liar. is that what this dinner is tonight or does everybody put away their swords. abby, back to you. >> all right. chuck todd in st. petersberg, russia, thank you so much. we have former u.s. ambassador to morocco. as chuck todd was laying out,

the president is now making his case in russia pushing them to ease off supporting assad and his regime. general dempsey made it pretty clear this week in the senate hearing that russia remains our greatest roadblock. >> there is some indication that we have assured the regime that if we destroy something, we can replace it. that's not a reason for me to hesitate to act. >> ambassador, we know the one-on-one meeting was canceled due to snowden. they will still have the chance to meet. how do you expect that conversation will play out? >> well, it's going to be a tough conversation. it's going to be a tough conversation because putin has already accused secretary kerry of lying about the makeup of the opposition, number one. number two, because his foreign ministry keeps issuing denials about whether poison gas was, indeed, used by the assad regime. be that as it may, there is a small window of opportunity here

that the you of them can go back to where secretary kerry placed things when he first joined the forces of the administration, that is a geneva conference on syria. i think the trick would be something verying the interesti and i'd like to put it on the table plmpt rou hin any is trying to cozy up to the west. this would be a time to switch signals and say while we are pursuing a way of stopping assad's chemical weapons, we are going to go the extra mile to get every party that has a dog in this fight to the negotiating table. >> well, ambassador, on that note, do you think that we have exhausted all of the sort of diplomatic channels prior to this strike or do you think that there is more room to maneuver before going ahead with this strike? >> no, i don't believe that -- and i think that many of my democratic colleagues would probably feel more comfortable if they realized that there was,

indeed, a more overt public diplomacy initiative by the administration to try to deal with the biggest problem that we have here, a very divided syrian opposition that was the main reason why this geneva conference did not take place. it wasn't because the assad regime of all people were not prepared to attend. and so the key here is to deal with the very problem that most people have been raising during these hearings, abby, and that is the fact that you have a very divided syrian opposition of -- composed of very bad guys on one side and less bad guys on the other. >> yeah. take a listen to the president insisting that inaction would cut against the international law barring chemical weapons. >> this attack is an assault on human dignity. it risks making a mockery of the global prohibition on the use of chemical weapons. >> ambassador, i think bombing without a security council authorization also cuts against international law. do you think it's overselling

the case for war here to suggest that only the hawks have international law on their side? >> well, ari, i just refused to use the word war here. this is not war. we can parcel this out any which way and i'll throw something else out at you. this administration and almost anybody involved who knows the syrian conflict would tell you the dirty little secret is we don't want assad to fall right now. my biggest concern with this potential attack is not that it's going to lead to a deeper war, but no matter how we target this, what happens if we destroy the command and control operations that have some control over the huge cache of chemical weapons that exist? i'm more concerned about that and much less concerned about whether there's going to be boots on the ground or this is iraq or afghanistan. in the end, the key here is to send assad a signal that is unequivocal, don't use chemical weapons anymore and get a diplomatic initiative underway that's going to, in effect, try

to bring this war to a halt. >> i think that's a really interesting and important point that you just made, that we don't want assad to fall write now. perhaps that answers some of the questions that i want to get into, that we have -- we're seeing unenthusiastic support or lack of support from the arab world for a strike no matter how -- despite how much effort we give to egypt. they're not with us. tunisia's not with us. algeria's not with us. why is it that the arab world is not supporting this strike when the arab league expelled syria several years ago? >> well, toure, like anything else in the arab league, it's not really an arab league. there's a group of arab countries that come together and then spend most of their time arguing among themselves. the qatar ris and em rat at thises and saudis who are part of the sunni religious block of the arab league want to see the strike and probably have already said that they're going to pay the check for it if, indeed, it ever occurs. the egyptians are dead set

against this, frankly, because they're dead set against the obama's administration's foreign policy against egypt. the same thing for tunisia. if you went through the 22 members of the arab league, you can pick and choose those who have said, don't worry, if you go ahead and do this, we'll pay the check and then we'll send you a con grat gratulatory e-ma >> the country you mentioned is china. incredibly huge player. how do you expect those conversations to play out? >> well, krystal, the problem with china is it's been following lock step with russia for one reason. the only interest china has in syria is oil. syria doesn't export a lot of oil at all and it gets $15 million virtually -- somewhere between 15 and 20 depending on what facility and refinery is operating that it uses to buy arms from russia but it exports that oil to china and china, as

you know, is thirsty for oil and it doesn't want to see its syrian pipeline dried up because of the assad regime falling. >> ambassador ginsburg, thanks so much. >> good to be with you guys. straight ahead, democrats haunted by the past facing a vote that could determine their future. every day? when i can. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. two full servings of vegetables for only 50 delicious calories.

who gets the allstate safe driving bonus check. rock beats scissors! [ chuckles ] wife beats rock. and with two checks a year, everyone wins. [ female announcer ] switch today and get two safe driving bonus checks a year for driving safely. only from allstate. call 866-906-8500 now. [ dennis ] zach really loves his new camera. problem is...this isn't zach. it's a friend of a friend who was at zach's party and stole his camera. but zach's got it covered... with allstate renters insurance. [ female announcer ] protect your valuables for as low as $4 a month when you add renters insurance to your allstate auto policy. call 866-906-8500 now. what are you doing? we're switching car insurance. why? because these guys are the cheapest. why? good question. because a cut-rate price could mean cut-rate protection. you should listen to this guy.

[ female announcer ] with allstate you get great protection and a great price, plus an agent! drivers who switched saved an average of $498 a year. call now and see how much you can save. just a few more ways allstate is changing car insurance for good. [ female announcer ] call an allstate agent and get a quote now. female narrator: through sunday, it's posturepedic through sunday, it's posturepedic versus beautyrest with up to $400 off. serta icomfort and tempur-pedic go head-to-head with three years' interest-free financing. mattress price wars end sunday at sleep train. ♪ your ticket to a better night's sleep ♪

we just discussed the president trying to win the world over at the g-20 summit in russia. he also has his work cut out for him back in washington, specifically with his own party. our political team is reporting that many democrats, including those elected after the iraq war, are skeptical without a

clear and restrained plan from the president. secretary of state john kerry hinted at the president directly rallying the american public. >> what more can be done to further communicate with the american people. for example, will the president make a speech from the oval office to the american people? >> i have no doubt the president will. >> there you have it. nbc's luke russert covers capitol hill. luke, the president didn't do a major address on libya until about nine days after that u.s. bombing campaign began. do you think like an earlier address here would actually help some of these hesitant democrats? >> it probably would help in some sense that if the president could effectively lay out the case with the american people would provide them some cover. ari, one of the problems they had, i had a few conversations with them and their aids today, the phones have been ringing off the hook on the side to not have any type of intervention in

libya in a military sense. that's what they're dealing with. if you're looking on a pure vote count. if you're nancy pelosi and you're going to whip this, she's not, if the white house said, hey, would you help us convince a few people here, wink, wink, you have to go after those sort of northeastern midwestern ethnic democrats, the guys like quigley, higgins, kennedy, lynch, marci capper, those types of people who are not necessarily as much on the progressive anti-war side, who are more of the labor people who could possibly support this. you've got to look back at that nsa vote we've talked about before. it was 205 to 217. those who voted with the nsa, pelosi, the president's position, that's who they have to call on. >> luke russ jeret, thank you. in the guest spot, we have one of those democrats who seems to be on the fence. freshman congressman hakeem jeffries. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me.

>> what are the factors that would get you to a yes vote on the syrian intervention? >> first, it is important to note that i do strongly believe based on the evidence that has been presented that it's reasonably likely that a chemical weapons attack was carried out by the syrian government with assad's knowledge against innocent civilians, and that's something that cannot be count at the nansed. it's also a clear violation of international law. that leads us to the question of what is the appropriate level of response and sanction to deal with the chemical weapons attack which we should not tolerate anywhere on this globe. what's unclear to me is that a targeted military strike is the appropriate response, particularly in a region that's incredibly volatile given what we've seen in iraq and afghanistan and the reasonable failures that many of my people have articulated.

it could be a full on conflict. that's something that most people are prepared to embrace. >> congressman, when you look a the it that way, does that mean your main concern is it's spilling into a wider war, having a lack of stability on the chemical weapons that are inside the country and that that could invite the u.s. into the wider conflict with a larger operation of ground troops? is that what's giving you pause at this point? >> that certainly is one of the reasons why i'm carefully considering what should be done here but want to proceed with all delivery speed to borrow another phrase that was used in a different context. we know that there are bad actors on both sides unfortunately. syria is a bad actor. its allies are hezbollah and iran. they will threaten and we've got to protect the interests of our allies in the region, turkey, jordan, israel. we also have bad actors on the other side, al qaeda. we're not clear what the level of organization is in terms of the opposition and the moderate forces within the opposition and their opportunity to prevail.

if we do weaken the assad regime and it collapses, the question then becomes what comes next and is there a stable environment? we've seen the cons is he kwieqa dictator falling in egypt. we thought it would get better and democracy would flourish. it's not that clean. there's a reasonable concern if you further destabilize things in syria, things could get worse and not better. that could lead to further destabilization in the region and possible escalation involving u.s. troops. again, that's something that we have to be very weary about. >> congressman, a lot of folks are looking to the congressional black caucus as a key voting block on this issue. what are you hearing from your colleagues there? >> well, many of us throughout the country are taking account of what our constituents have to say, and we should also note that it's important to put this in the context of what's happened during the last ten years where we had a debacle in

iraq, a failed effort in afghanistan though perhaps initially justified and the incredible diversion of resources away from domestic priorities where we have communities that are still suffering with incredible unemployment, poverty, income disparities and issues that need to be addressed here at home. so i know all of my colleagues, not just members of the congressional black caucus although we may be particularly sensitive to the issue, of getting involved in a foreign conflict that will further divert resources away from the issues that we need to be dealing with here at home for the people that we represent. >> you talk about the people that you represent. you've got folks all over the country calling their congress people to say, hey, i don't want any intervention here. hate to get all ask your congressman on you, but i am in your district. i am one of your constituents. let's get all after congressmen about it. let's get local. how would a strike impact the people of brooklyn? how would it impact the people in your district?

>> well, aside from the risk of escalation that could turn into an open-ended conflict that then requires substantial amount of resources being diverted away from domestic issues that we have to acquire in the united states which complicates a whole host of issues, there's the human cost that i think is disproportionately borne by neighborhoods like those that i represent which sent a significant amount of people into the military and therefore into conflicts like iraq and afghanistan and any other future conflicts that we may have to get involved in in the middle east. so that human cost is also something that weighs heavily on me that i know that a vote for military strike, which under the wrong circumstances could lead to an escalated conflict, might ultimately result in young men and women from the neighborhoods that i represent being put in harm's way and that is also why this is a very solemn moment for

all of us in the congress and i'm taking it with all the seriousness that it deserves. >> congressman, the majority of americans are still skeptical. they are not convinced. it's interesting, i looked at a poll that took place in december. 63% of americans were actually supportive of u.s. action if syria used chemical weapons. at that point it was a hypothetical question. a stark contrast to what we're seeing today. 60% opposing a missile strike. many of these people are waiting to hear from the president. they want the president to lay out his case. when do you expect to hear from the president and what could he say to change the perception? >> i support the president. i trust the president. i think it's different than the bush/cheney crowd and the shenanigans we saw that led us into the war in iraq. the problem is he's saddled with those credibility issues perhaps unfairly as a result of what was done in the past and what led us into the conflict in iraq. i do think that for that reason

it is very important for the president in a clear throated way in a manner that's -- that he's able to communicate given the information, some of which is classified, some of which hopefully can be directly told to the american people as to the compelling reasons for the united states to act, why a failure to act will make the situation worse if not better. if he can make that case, then perhaps he can turn it around. >> congressman, before we let you go, are you leaning yes or no? >> i wouldn't say i'm leaning yes or no but i do have a healthy degree of skepticism as it relates to voting for anything that could lead to an escalation that could put people in my district into harm's way. >> thank you for sharing your views with us today. congressman hakeem jeffries. secretary of state john kerry will make his case exclusively tonight on "all in"

with chris hayes. that's at 8:00 eastern joompt first, allow the legendary al green to make the case for you to come on back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ho ho ho [ female announcer ] at 100 calories, not all food choices add up. some are giant. some not so giant. when managing your weight, bigger is always better. ♪ ho ho ho ♪ green giant ♪ ho ho ho i turn ♪ ho ho ho ed 65 last week. the math of retirement is different today. money has to last longer. i don't want to pour over pie charts all day. i want to travel, and i want the income to do it. ishares incomes etfs. low cost and diversified. find out why nine out of ten large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus, which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal.

plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day women's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for women's health concerns as we age. with 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day women's 50+. ♪ and i'll never desert you ♪ ♪ i'll stand by you yeaaaah! yeah. so that's our loyalty program. you're automatically enrolled, and the longer you stay, the more rewards you get. great! oh! ♪ i'll stand by you ♪ won't let nobody hurt you ♪ isn't there a simpler way to explain the loyalty program? yes. standing by you from day one. now, that's progressive. ♪ we go, go, we don't have to go solo ♪ ♪ fire, fire, you can take me higher ♪ ♪ take me to the mountains, start a revolution ♪ ♪ hold my hand, we can make, we can make a contribution ♪

♪ brand-new season, keep it in motion ♪ ♪ 'cause the rhyme is the reason ♪ ♪ break through, man, it doesn't matter who you're talking to ♪ [ male announcer ] completely redesigned for whatever you love to do. the all-new nissan versa note. your door to more. ♪

i want to focus on one word making the rounds, to london to washington. is it a big deal or is it just a side show. >> it starts last summer, august 20th, 2012, when the president was asked by our white house correspondent chuck todd about syria, he said this -- >> we have been very clear to the assad regime but also to other players on the ground that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bun ch of

chemical weapons being moved around or being utilized. that would change my focus. >> then there were reports of a chemical attack in syria. it was small and unreliable intelligence at the time. it disappeared from the headlines. two weeks ago on august 21st there was a big attack. it was too big to ignore. the death toll according to u.s. intelligence is 1,429 including 426 children. with that the drums for military action against syria began beating and beating hard. last thursday, just one week ago, a competent british prime minister david cameron went to parliament for his country's okay to join france, turkey and the u.s.a. he lost that vote. the next day our secretary of state made the strongest statement yet signaling that military firing of miss sites from our own warships into syria was inevitable and soon to come. >> this is the indiscriminate horror of chemical weapons. this is what assad did to his

own people. the american intelligence community has high confidence, high confidence. this is common sense. this is evidence. these are facts. >> but later that night the president changed his mind and on saturday came out and said this. >> i have decided that the united states should take military action against syrian regime targets. i've made a second decision. i will seek authorization for the use of force from the american people's representatives in congress. >> and then yesterday in stockholm, sweden, the president seemed to back away even further. >> my credibility is not on the line. the international community's credibility is on the line, and america and congress's credibility is on the line because we give lip service to the notion that these international norms are important. >> okay. red lines, congress, the press, is this a big deal or not?

we bring in business insider josh barro. josh, is this sequence of events at all important or is this just politics as usual in washington? >> i think the important part of the sequence is that the president got out in front of this issue with the red line comment first effectively committing himself to do something if there was a chemical attack in syria and then during the week with john kerry's statement, essentially signaling this is so bad we have to go to war, and then a key part of the argument for why congress should approve the military action is, well, the president and the secretary of state have already committed us. if we don't follow through, then our credibility will be undermined. effectively we're in the situation where congress nominally has the power to approve and i think may well decline to give that approval, but they're being told that bus the president sort of spoke out of turn ahead of them, their option set is limited. it's one of the key arguments for why they should vote yes. >> during that slow sequencing we've had the refugee crisis

explode. we're talking 2 million refugees so far. february last year, 16,000 refugees. that was when russia and china vetoed the u.n. resolution. august 20th president obama issues the famous red line. by the end of the month 145,000 refugees. by april u.s. intel had syria using chemical weapons twice. refugees had jumped to more than a million. in june the cia training the rebels, refugeed jumped to 1.5 million. this week as they move ahead and the proposed strikes, you have 1.8 million refugees according to the u.n. doesn't this time line actually make it pretty hard for the president to prove that now is the time to help these syrian people? >> well, i think the time line supports his position that the situation in syria has continued to deteriorate and the humanitarian crisis now is obviously much more severe than it was a year ago. this is the point that the white house has been hammering. this has been the key feature of john kerry's statements is this

is such a horrible situation we have to do something. i think what we're hearing from a lot of congressional aids is the white house has made that case fairly clearly. people believe that assad was behind the chemical attack and that syria is a humanitarian disaster. they have not explained how exactly our intervention is supposed to make that any better. i think the time line is important for establishing the president's position. the fact that the syrian situation is such a humanitarian crisis is a necessary condition for arguing that we should invade but it's not a sufficient condition. there's another case the white house hasn't made. >> nothing that we're talking about aims to actually deal with the humanitarian crisis. we're trying to spank them for using chemical weapons which is why the washington post whip couldn't, let's dig into where congress is. in the senate 23 nos, 55 undecided, 22 yess. maybe they'll get through congress, but the house, 178 nos so far, 103 up decided, only 19

on the record so far saying yes. first question, do you think these numbers are accurate? second, do you think this thing will get through the house? >> i think the numbers are accurate, but i think members who are opposed have more reason to come out now and say they're opposed than members who are in favor because it's unpopular and because i think that there's still a case to be made from the white house. i think a lot of the people who are open to voting yes still want to gather more information. i don't think it's going to fail on a lopsided vote like this indicates. i do think there's real risk it won't pass through the house. i think it's because that failure of the white house to explain how this attack is supposed to make the situation better. i think the idea nominally is it's administering a spanking. what the spanking does, it chaisens assad and it causes him not to use chemical weapons because he fears another attack. you have other experts equally saying, no, it will embolden him to respond especially because the white house has been clear they're unwilling to escalate. the reason that libya gave up

its weapons of mass destruction program ten years ago was that they were afraid that they would invade libya like we invaded iraq. one of the down sides of no longer having a down side of saying we'll invade countries at random, they won't fear us. the question is, what was the point of attacking? >> i agree with your political calculus. i think there are a lot more reasons for people to come out with their no vote now. on the other hand, republicans have to seem like they're skeptical of anything this president does even if they may eventually vote yes. democrats have to vote to their base that they are weary in getting entangled in anything overseas. let's say that this measure does fail in the house and the president does not get the authorization of force that he was hoping to get, what do you think happens then? do you think that he backs down? as you know, he has reserved the right. he said he didn't have to go to congress. do you think he waits for assad to do something else and uses that as justification for a

strike further in the future? >> i have great difficulty imagining the president to react to a negative vote in congress and going ahead and attacking anyway. i think for one thing it would seriously open him up to an impeachment threat. i also think the white house's reservation of that power is more about future military actions. they don't want to set a precedent that any time the president wants to make a strike against anybody he has to go to congress, but i do think it really did set a precedent specifically for this syria situation. now if there are developments in syria that strengthen the argument for attacking, i think it's likely that the white house will again raise the possibility of doing that. i suspect outside a situation where there's a true immediate threat to the united states where the president can say, look, there was literally no time for me to go back to congress, i think that requires him to go back and say, here, with this new better information, now approve the attack. that happened with t.a.r.p. in 2008. congress said no and the stock market fell a few hundred points and the political environment

changed and it was possible to pass 26789 t.a.r.p. i have great difficulty imagining that the president would make this decision he made and then just disregard the wilf congress and attack anyway. >> interesting. i think we're out of time. i did want to add i don't think the impeachment piece is significant. if there's an unreasonable threat out there that may exist in the republican party, the article 2 authority for the president to order limited strikes is very clear. whether or not congress acts, i think he has that. >> josh, rational thought and thinking. we love having you on. >> thanks, abby. >> 45% of americans told us they don't know enough about syria to decide on military intervention. we'll help you make your mind up next. after all, it's the nbc way. [announcer] there's no hiding the goodness of the latest from

beneful baked delights. new heartfuls are made with real bacon... ...and oven-baked to crisp perfection. new heartfuls from beneful baked delights. like this samsung 60" led. savings event is here! on rollback: you save over 150 bucks. and this vizio 60" smart led. on rollback: you save 100 bucks! get more for your money at walmart's super savings event. a man who doesn't stand still. but jim has afib, atrial fibrillation -- an irregular heartbeat, not caused by a heart valve problem. that puts jim at a greater risk of stroke.

for years, jim's medicine tied him to a monthly trip to the clinic to get his blood tested. but now, with once-a-day xarelto®, jim's on the move. jim's doctor recommended xarelto®. like warfarin, xarelto® is proven effective to reduce afib-related stroke risk. but xarelto® is the first and only once-a-day prescription blood thinner for patients with afib not caused by a heart valve problem. that doesn't require routine blood monitoring. so jim's not tied to that monitoring routine. [ gps ] proceed to the designated route. not today. [ male announcer ] for patients currently well managed on warfarin, there is limited information on how xarelto® and warfarin compare in reducing the risk of stroke. xarelto® is just one pill a day taken with the evening meal. plus, with no known dietary restrictions, jim can eat the healthy foods he likes. do not stop taking xarelto®, rivaroxaban, without talking to the doctor who prescribes it as this may increase the risk of having a stroke. get help right away if you develop any symptoms like bleeding, unusual bruising,

or tingling. you may have a higher risk of bleeding if you take xarelto® with aspirin products, nsaids or blood thinners. talk to your doctor before taking xarelto® if you have abnormal bleeding. xarelto® can cause bleeding, which can be serious, and rarely may lead to death. you are likely to bruise more easily on xarelto® and it may take longer for bleeding to stop. tell your doctors you are taking xarelto® before any planned medical or dental procedures. before starting xarelto®, tell your doctor about any conditions such as kidney, liver, or bleeding problems. xarelto® is not for patients with artificial heart valves. jim changed his routine. ask your doctor about xarelto®. once a day xarelto® means no regular blood monitoring -- no known dietary restrictions. for more information and savings options, call 1-888-xarelto or visit goxarelto.com. back now with our special

coverage of the crisis in syria and the question, are we having an informed debate. recent nbc news polls showed when asked if military action was in our best national interest, one in five said yes, a third said no, but a whopping 45% said they did not know enough to form an opinion. this type of polling is precisely why our next guest left her job in news and launched syria deeply.org where the coverage is from reporters, correspondents and analysts on the ground including syrians living this day in and day out. joining us is the co-founder of syria deeply. laura, i have to tell you all of us are incredibly impressed with the site. i spent a lot of time there. i highly recommend it to our viewers. what's really unique is you really have the view from the ground up of real people living there. we've been debating and talking about who are the rebels. you have a quote from an

islamist rebel group person who wants to strike syria so he can get closer to their goal for having an islamist state in syria. we support the united states but we are not loyal to them. we are still enemies but we can work together. my enemy's enemy is my friend. what from your reporting -- who are the rebels? >> the rebels are a hodgepodge. they're a mixed soup of those who want democracy and started this all in peaceful protest against the regime and then you do have those al qaeda linked or al qaeda inspired groups who have grown and flourished in a vacuum in the 2 1/2 years. the longer this goes on, that's why this is a dangerous situation. it's a wicked problem. very, very complex. the longer we do nothing, the more we see this spiral out of control. those islamist groups have been better equipped, better trained, more organized. they brought in foreign fighters from places like iraq, libya,

even canada and the u.k. and that's been another cause for concern. the countries are saying syria is a magnet for anyone with the slightest jihad did i tendencies. i have to stress that you have a country of 22 to 24 million people in sir yeah there's a silent majority that just wants their country back. they just want stability and they know this has gone on for far too long. you showed that incredible graph of the syrian refugees spiraling and 2 million people have spread out. life has become miserable for them. that's not necessarily the reason to launch a strike on syria, but when you look at the dynamics of how syria fits into the broader region and what are the consequences as this goes on and on in syria, there starts to be a kind of emerging consensus, both in the middle east and among syrians i speak to and among some here in the u.s. that a u.s. strike on syria is not going to be pretty but there are very few other ways you can

think of to get out of this mess. >> laura, i've been dying for more information about those who have been displaced, the refugees. your site heptd me find out more about the conflict. you talked about the people living in these camps that are pretty horrible, children getting tuberculosis, dealing with crappy water. terrible conditions. but at the same time in these camps people are creating, the writer reports, civilized societies that are not allowed in syria where they can have these sort of political institutions, put their kids in schools that are actually decent and not just sort of rote teaching them islamic lessons and women in positions of leadership. some really interesting things going on in these camps. >> it's a fascinating dynamic. you see it in the camps and parts of syria that are no longer under assad's control. there's a vibrant civil society in syria. they're trying to organize their communities, everything from

traffic cops, women in leadership, trying to feed their families, doing the best in very, very dire conditions. but i have to say as someone who's watched this war for 2 1/2 years, it's really sinister the way it works. it's sad the assad regime, every time there's a part of the country that falls, you can say rebel hands, some say liberated territory, the assad regime makes it practically unlivable. they bombard it with scud missiles. it's hard for people to stand up any kind of normal life. that's a strategic move on the assad government part. it's a scorched earth policy. that makes the residents in those areas kind of yearn for any kind of stability. there's a pattern of behavior. the more you know syria and the closer you watch the regime, the more you understand the sequence of events from the u.s. call for assad to leave through the use of chemical weapons to where we stand. it's not that strange for syrians to consider how this got so bad.

it's that so many of us weren't watching. >> your site also charts defections from within the government y. is that important? >> that's crucial. that's something that we borrowed from google. they had produced it, defection tracker. a way to keep track of who in the assad core has stepped away from the regime. this notion, is the assad regime fraying at the edges. in this is a crucial question. from every syrian source, people on the ground, even without a u.s. strike, just the threat of a strike has already changed conditions on the ground in many ways. some say the regime is really shaking in its socks. they're very nervous about what this is doing to the morale within their ranks and if you see and hear about noegtions of defectors, people leaving assad's side, that will be the game changer in what tips syria ford. all right. the website is syria deeply.org.

i highly recommend it. thank you, laura. up next we will take a breather and turn to sports, sports, sports. >> yes. >> the nfl is back and so is fantasy football. wait, does that mean it's not real? >> no. this is for you. ♪ [ male announcer ] bob's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen.

bjorn earns unlimited rewards for his small business. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less? ahh, oh! [ garth ] great businesses deserve unlimited rewards. here's your wake up call. [ male announcer ] get the spark business card from capital one and earn unlimited rewards. choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button? tonight, my friends, we have

football. once again, we can live. oh, i can hear the peels of joy from millions of fans and millions of owners. yes, i said millions. sure, there are just 32 football teams but they say there are 24 million fantasy football owners and their very real devotion to their imaginary teams costs employers more than $6 billion in lost productivity except if you factor into this. those people are never more alive when they're managing ormon torque their team. >> i need to win this year. that guy right there, he's going to help me win. matthew perry is the prettiest girl in this bar and i'm going to go hit on him. hello. >> weird clip. the man, the one time, kevin we're ogling, matthew berry, espn senior fantasy analyst and a man who's written a love

letter to fantasy football, titled "fantasy life." please welcome father of five, matthew berry coming to us from espn hq in brinstol, ct. explain to others who don't understand, what is so great about fantasy as opposed to the love of football itself? >> thanks for having me. great to be on the show. it's fun, right? we like fun. if you're a football fan, i'm a washington redskins fan, have been since i'm 5 years old. >> yes, me too. >> there you go. monday night, big season coming. >> i'm very excited. >> you and i will watch every redskins game, ever, because we're fans. what fantasy football does is it gives you a rooting interest in games you wouldn't care about, like the rams and the cardinals this weekend. who really cares about that? i do because i've got daryl richardson. i'm facing you.

you have larry fitzgerald. suddenly i have a rooting interest in that game when i normally wouldn't. if you enjoy sports, it makes you enjoy sports that much more. if you don't care about football, it gives you a reason to watch football. my wife plays fantasy now. she never watchedlike, honey, wt to get home, kickoff is happening. >> my goodness, i'm so jealous of you. it's not quite how it is in our house. what are some of the top fantasy players in your mind? >> the number one guys are obvious. adrian peterson, air rodgers. at wide receiver calvin johnson, the number one wide receiver. great stat, tackled at the 1 five different times last year, unbelievably unlucky, and then jimmy graham at tight end. >> enough of amateur hours. what fans want to know is the players they should draft that are, i don't know, under-appreciated, undervalued. who are the deep sleepers? >> i wouldn't call them deep

sleepers, but guys going outside the top three to five rounds that i think can make a difference. how about michael vick? currently going 13th among quarter backs. health has always been the issue for him, but if he can stay healthy. lamar miller, the runging back of the miami dolphins, 14th in the nfl in rushing last year, no reggie bush. he has the job all to himself. i think lamar miller will have a big year. and josh gordon, suspended for it is first two games, so people are sort of forgetting about him, but norv turner loves to throw deep. over the last five years only the colds attempted more tarses than norv turner's chargers. i think josh gordon will have a big year. >> you talk about some of the extremes that people are driven to through the fantasy league. grown men getting bieber tattoos? tell us about that.

>> so this book isn't like a stat heavy nerdy here's how you win fantasy. i wanted to write a book about punishments for losing your leagues trophies, obsessive behavior, so you mentioned tatto tattoos. there's a league in omaha, nebraska, if you go to youtube, you can see a video of this. the rule of the league is the loser of the league has to get a permanent tattoo chosen by the winner. they have done it for three years, guys. the last year the guy that lost had to get a tattoo of justin bieber's face. >> it is a sickness. >> totally is. it's #yoloswag. >> indeed, sir, i'm not man enough to be in that league. >> no. >> thank you, matthew berry. up next, the weekly trip down abby's road. & dumplings. hearty cheeseburger. creamy thai style chicken with rice. mexican-style chicken tortilla.

if you think campbell's 26 new soups sound good, imagine how they taste. m'm! m'm! good! imagine how they taste. i had pain in my abdomen... it just wouldn't go away.thing. i was spotting, but i had already gone through menopause. these symptoms may be nothing... but they could be early warning signs of a gynecologic cancer, such as cervical, ovarian, or uterine cancer. feeling bloated for no reason. that's what i remember. seeing my doctor probably saved my life. warning signs are not the same for everyone. if you think something's wrong... see your doctor. ask about gynecologic cancer. and get the inside knowledge.

to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for her, she's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with her all day to see how it goes. [ claira ] after the deliveries, i was okay. now the ciabatta is done and the pain is starting again. more pills? seriously? seriously. [ groans ] all these stops to take more pills can be a pain. can i get my aleve back? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap.

as we inch one day closer to the showdown in congress over our role in syria, pundits everywhere, and many news networks like msnbc continue to argue over the right course of action. for every person who calls for action, there seems to be someone who says no. the problem is, we enter this world where everyone's point of view seems to black and white. it seems pick a site and fight it out. frankly in the hyper partisan, hyper sensitive world we live in, we've become all too quick to place judgment and assume we're also being judged in return. it's 'anti-war, it's only because he dislikes president obama. or she's a republican, she must not care about our men and women

in harm's way. i think it's more complicated than that. what if we find ourselves torn, where does that person belong? furthermore, by not having a strong position, does that just make us seem weak? that's exactly where i find myself. i'm well aware that admitting my internal dilemma, it puts me in a vulnerable place, but i have a feeling many other family that sail sense of doubt. mac eye lawmakers on the hill. i'm torn with my desire to my initial reaction is against taking action in syria. like the majority of americans, it seems like the last thing our country needs is yet another conflict abroad. after more than a decade of combat that cost is a trillion and a half dollars, left gold star mothers walking the treats, and 100,000 refugees. there isn't much appetite to take on syria and its allies,

and at worst going at it alone. we continue to stack up huge deficits. how can we even afford it? anyone with a loved one feels the emotional impact. with two brothers in the navy, i known that feeling all too well. and then my morals move front and center. what kind of world do we want to pass down to our kids and grandkids, a world where chemical weapons are used with impunity, a world without accountability where rogue nations feel compelled to take action and where we no longer that shining beacon on the hill? what would that world look like? is that something we're willing to pass down to future generations. the world we live in is more complicated than that. it's not so straightforward. whether we decide to take action

there are severe outcomes that would engulf us. while i think it's great we can share and let's not forget the nuance. each side has pros and cons. making the most informed decision is predicating upon listening to the arguments. it shouldn't be a scarlet letter, but rather a sign of thoughtful decision making. by arguing the merits of a response, it proves we are a country that prides freedom of speech and the deliberation of a duly elected representative. at the ends it is those values that are more transform tiff than any military could ever be. that's it for "the cycle." martin, it's all users. >> thank you to your family for yourself. good afternoon. it's thursday, september 5th, and as congress considers how to respond to syria, the president goes in search of support from international allies at the g-20 summit. president obama in

st. petersburg for the g-20. >> the first face-to-face contact since obama called off the meeting. >> everybody is talking about putin. >> i also look forward to having an extensive conversation about syria. >> i don't see that our involvement will lessen the tragedy. >> rand paul i think his influence is -- >> i and the people i represent said not just no, but heck no. >> we fight these wars, bankrupt our countries, make more enemies. >> they don't have the conservative base. >> the use of chemical weapons is a violation of international law. >> there is mounting evidence that the white house knew and possibly helped plan the syrian chemical weapon attack. >> i was not a fan of mr. assad. he's made mischief. >> what in god's name have the people in power learned. >> the international community's credibility is on the line. congress's credibility is on the line. ♪