st. petersburg for the g-20. >> the first face-to-face contact since obama called off the meeting. >> everybody is talking about putin. >> i also look forward to having an extensive conversation about syria. >> i don't see that our involvement will lessen the tragedy. >> rand paul i think his influence is -- >> i and the people i represent said not just no, but heck no. >> we fight these wars, bankrupt our countries, make more enemies. >> they don't have the conservative base. >> the use of chemical weapons is a violation of international law. >> there is mounting evidence that the white house knew and possibly helped plan the syrian chemical weapon attack. >> i was not a fan of mr. assad. he's made mischief. >> what in god's name have the people in power learned. >> the international community's credibility is on the line. congress's credibility is on the line. ♪

it is straight into the lion's den for the president, as he press es world leaders to support a military strike on syria, and faces a showdown with his russian counterpart at the g-20 summit in st. petering burg. tonight, well, it's dinner with vlad. while the g-20 is supposed to focus on economic issues, putin himself suggested that all discussions on syria should be delayed until tonight's working dinner, going on right now. hopefully with some decent vodka on hand. because while the two presidents shared a handshake today, this was their first face-to-face meeting since russia granted edward snowden asylum, and comes shortly after putin attempted to discredit the assessment of syrian rebels, saying of john kerry, quote -- he is lying and he knows that he's lying. this is sad.

in case you were wondering what predicts the tears of the judo black belt, that's what it is. putin also said it was completely ridiculous to conclude syrian forces used chemical weapons on thousands of civilians, and as has said military action without u.n. support would constitute an act of aggression. president obama offered his diplomatic disagreement at a meeting with japan's prime minister. >> the use of chemical weapons in syria is not only a tragedy, but also a violation of international law that must be addressed. >> back in washington, members of congress have been receives more classified briefings, but even after the authorization for military action narrowly passed a senate committee vote, deep divisions in both parties remain. there are no good guys to get behind here. i can only envision an escalation of this current conflict. >> we need to know exactly what

our goals are, and our objectives, because this is increasingly a complex situation. >> is this a new day for foreign policy, where we're going to start to say something and mean it? >> i am open to the idea of military strikes, but that i want to review the evidence. >> the president is, woing the phones, making five calls to a bipartisan group of senators. with the potential for full congressionally votes next week, the president canceled a trip to california to maintain a hands-on approach. i want to bring in nbc political director and chief white house correspondent chuck todd, host of "the daily rundown." he's traveling with the president in petersburg. we saw the president now just huddled with allies before taking his seat this evening. we've learned today that the british government has new evidence of chemical weapons used in syria. the french too say that they have independent corroboration for assad's use of chemical weapons. do you sense that in between

these economic discussions, the president is. >> reporter: martzen, that's absolutely the strategy. they see it in connection with their attempts to lobby congress to grant the president authorization. the g-20 technically is a group that's supposed to only focus on economic matters. so there won't officially be a communique -- and i say that word, because i like saying it when you're at a summit. it sounds very diplomatic and fancy. >> there won't be any words about syria. it's all going to be focused on the economy. what the white house hopes happens after tonight's dinner is you have about half of the 20 world leaders, they're hoping for ten, and in particular those european allies, they would like

them on board, korea, australia, you can sort of figure out the ten that would be on their side, that those world leaders make public statements -- everybody here travels with their olympics press corps, at least the democratically elected leaders, they say something in support of the president's approach to dealing with assad and chemical weapons. even if it's just rhetorical, it doesn't have to be with military help, doesn't even have to be financial help, because the white house believes if they can show publicly that there is an international coalition behind the president in doing this, even if they can't politically in their own countries, like camera in great britain, add a military element themselves, but if they have rhetorical support, that can help them get democratic support on capitol hill and make some of these democrats, who are very nervous,

cast this vote. >> are you saying, chuck, that the president is looking for these international leaders to own the red line on chemical weapons usage, which, as you know, the president was said was not his red line, but a red line that is owned by 98% of the nations around the planet. >> the president is making the case to congress that this is a red line that everybody owns. if he wants those words to be taken seriously by congress, then he has to have a group internationally standing behind him. well, here he is, with 20 of the world's richest countries, leaders from the 20 world's richest countries, with him at a dinner. what he's doing tonight is making a case. whether putin is truly debating back and forth, we don't know yet, they're still in the middle of the dinner. the white house believes if they can get ten of the world leaders

to stand behind the president on this, then that sends the signal to capitol hill that, you know what? he has convinced skeptical world leaders, they're there, this should make your vote easier on being able to say, you know what? we do collectively own the red line, but it's tough politically, which is not an easy vote for members of congress, and it's not easy for some of these leaders. all politics is local, nos just in the united states, but also in many of these countries. >> boy, do we know it. chuck, thanks so much. dana, you've seen the public polls that shows that around half of americans are opposed to any form of military intervention in syria. is it your view, dana, that the public's lamb of confidence is due to the fact that the add manages in the form of john kerry keep deferring to classified material, classified hearings which of course the public has no access to.

i want i think that has a lot to do with it, martin. there's a couple things going on here. one is this absurd over classification and prior, so we're having a real problem here. they're saying it's an ironclad case, a slam dunk, but we heard slam dunk before, so people are naturally kept call. if you had your member of congress, your senator saying we think this is important. that had bring the pull on board, too. they're looking at the poll, so it's sort of circular. what we're really missing, yes, kerry and hagel have been testifying. the president needs to be making a more forceful case if he wants to win this vote. >> but dana, isn't the case that most members of congress have yesterday to receive themselves detailed classified briefings? >> right.

well, dianne feinstein today was asking the cia to send out dvds to all members of the senate and perhaps members of congress. they have been doing they classified briefings for the relevant committees and for members bothering to dial in or show up for them. but also, the president making the case, speaking to the nation, lobbying the members himself. that will move things. i don't think these early whip counts are really indicative. i think the president could easily win this if he makes the case. it's hard to do it from russia. >> and many republicans appear incapable of discerning the difference between their coccyxes and elbows. now he says we've run out of money, we shouldn't take any action, but senator marco rubio

must take the biscuits. he ed we need to go through a full-scale removal or assad, or nothing at all. go figure, as you like to say. >> marco rubio and a lot of his colleagues are opposed to whatever the president is asking. marco rubio for the last couple years has been talking about the need to be taking action? syria. the president comes around, he backs away. and he leaves it this way to be critic critical. you can be sure that the pg would be marco rubio would be saying it's too broad. there's no way this president is going to win with most republicans here. he's just got to get enough of them to get approval. "the washington post's" dana milbank, thank you. >> thanks, martin. we'll talk to a congressman who does not support a military strike, but first a filtered view of the crisis, care of the assad family.

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well all know the clyle shea that a pictures tells 1 thounz words. we also know that the syrian people are victims of the most horrific crimes, but you wouldn't know that judging by the inns that gram account of about shar al assad. since the attack assad's account has featured congratulatory pictures of his wife with some of syria's top students. there's no photo of the more

than 400 children that secretary of state kerry says were lost in that attack. before that, there was a photo of the family volunteers to pack boxes at a public appearance. missing, of course, are any of the photos of million-plus displaced syrians, fleeing their own country. you'll find a shot of assad with an adoring crowd, his hand held high amitt a sea of supporters. not destruction in the streets wrought by attacks on his own people. a picture can tell 1,000 words, it's all how you filter it. coming up, congressman charlie rangel. we'll discuss hi opposition and strong words for the president. stay with us. i'm angela, and i didn't think i could quit smoking but chantix helped me do it. i told my doctor i think i'm... i'm ready. [ male announcer ] along with support,

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both here and overseas the white house tinges to seek support for limited military strikes against syria. while the leadership of both parties is marching largely in step with the administration, many of the actual members are divided on the issue, particularly to whether a series of limited strikes will actually accomplish the president's goal. your honor if we stand by and watch the chemical weapons being used, what signal do you think that sends to other countries who want to develop weapons of mass destruction independen. >> and, by the way, i also think this action could unleash a series of events that could further destabilize the region. >> why a majority of democratic-leans voters believe the president has clearly explained his rationale, a similar majority still oppose military strikes joining us is

congre congressman charles rangel. you've described it as embarrassing. i'm quoting you -- there's no such thing as a limited war. how would you propose, then, that we stop assad from chemically killing children in his own country? >> i assume you're not stating what senator mccain said, that as long as he kills them and doesn't use chemicals, it's okay with us. >> i'm not saying that. >> i know you're not, but we can't say that because we're prepared to have a limited war -- and there's no such thing -- that it's chemicals that he won't respond by using more chemicals or doing something else. the whole idea that is atrocious behavior in the international community is a direct threat to our national security, i think doesn't make sense. >> congressman, how do we stop

this man from killing children with chemical weapons? >> i should have answered it more directly and swiftly. if you agree with me this is an international issue, it should be governedi international institutions. we have the united nations, we have nato, we have the security council, we have the arab league, the european union, we have great britain. i never thought that putin in russia would make some sense, but even he makes sense. i didn't mean the president was embarrassing. i said, and he's changed it, that anyone who said the president drew the red line, it would be embarrassing if he thought he had the constitutional line to, say, cross the line and we go to war. he said -- >> and he's right. >> he is right. >> 90% of the nations on earth actually oppose the use of chemical weapons.

>> why are they asking our kids to put their lives in jeopardy. >> because the president is not asking or kids. he's saying specifically there are no boots on the ground. this is going to be a lilted strike. what i am putting to you is that, as a strategy, may have the potential to deter this individual from killing more of his own people. >> we don't know that, but the first part of the question is, what do you do? you tell people, not american kids, that this is an international monster, and we want you to put up and shut up. i refuse to believe we're the only ones that have armed forces. this idea of no boots on the ground, this idea about limited war, if any americans ever are jeopardized as a result of retaliation by this mad man because of this so-called limited attack, i'll be the first one to say we've got to wipe these people out to protect our men and women. whether they're flying a plane or on the ground -- this is war.

there's no such thing as a limited war. you cannot attack a country and then tell them the rules in which he or she should respond. we fwhoe that. >> well, you heard what senator john mccain just said. i'd like you to listen to what the secretary of state said on tuesday. listen to this. >> iran is hoping you look the other way. hezbollah is hoping that isolationism will prevail. north korea is hoping that am bifflens carries the day. they are all listening for our silence. given the fact that -- are such friends of assad, does the secretary of state not make a strong and silent point, that if nothing is done by assad, it only emboldens the iranians, the north koreans? >> who is saying that nothing should be done. we give enough money to countries that they respect international law.

>> on your support to make limited military strikes. >> elemented for the united states? the president is really going to europe, where he should be, going to the united nations, where he should be. >> and tell the countries that we give billions of dollars to, put some skin in the game. and i support that. so there's no way that i have to explain why poor hungry kids are dead killed by this mad man and i'm supposed to feel guilty. my kids are being killed every darn day in new york. i've been in combat, i've seen people and we have to do something about it, but how in god's heaven does anyone want me to believe that we're the only one with young kids? >> aren't you really responding to this because of what happened in iraq and afghanistan? because you know that you supported president clinton when he decided to launch air strikes in kosovo. twice you voted with the

government to support those strikes to prevent a genocide, to prevent individuals being murdered. we're talking about over 100,000 people killed, 4 million displaced 2 million fleeing the country, and you don't want to -- >> you sure pinpointed me. i have said enough is enough is enough. the last time any president has followed the constitution and asked the congress to support wartime commitment was frankly roosevelt. and any member of congress that allows this to happen, see no evil, hear no evil, they like me ought to say at some point, we owe it to americans to say enough is enough. there's no member of congress that didn't believe our president's state department and everybody when they said that saddam hussein is going to be a knockover. they really believed they would have rose petals, people just waiting for us to come. i have to see a lot of the

families of the 6500 that got killed. i have to explain they were patriots supporting the flag. i am fed up with it. and there's no justification for my constituents to go to sleep at night worrying that their great nation is under any type of threat, and let me end by saying this -- i love this country, i owe so much to this country, that if i -- >> you've served this country. >> i'm 83. when i thank my blessings for what this country has allowed me to do, if you want to talk about me doing more, and i but please, for god's sake just don't thing america, those who volunteers are the only ones who are indebted for the security of this great condition. >> congressman charles range the, thank you so much. constitutions the day's top lines are coming up. but first a lesson in the art of the sell.

i miss george w. bush. that man knew how to sell the war. >> axis of evil. mobile, biological weapons labs. >> the regime is seeking a nuclear bomb. >> the smoking gun that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud. >> mwah! i love being lied to by a professional. ♪ ♪ ♪ i've got something for you too. (announcer) fancy feast delights with cheddar. a meal that is sure to delight your cheese lover. now available in the classic form she loves.

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resolution. >> not just no, but something like heck no. >> if the president said i'm against peanut butter and jellry, they would vote no. >> the american people deserve answers about benghazi. >> we're talking about people being killed by gas and you want to talk about benghazi and fast and furious. >> i absolutely want to talk about it. >> did they use chemical weapons? >> no, absolutely not. >> there is evidence, mounting evidence, that the rebels in syria did indeed frame assad for the chemical attack. >> chemical weapons were used by the other groups who are supported by the united states i want but not only that, that obama, a regime may have been complicit in it. >> wait, wait. >> mounting evidence that the white house knew and possibly helped plan the syrian chemical weapon attack. independents

>> i think our biggest threats from the tie rants in washington. >> rand paul, the obama hatred, the mania. >> but you accept the fact that he was born an american? >> no comment. >> no comment? >> so that's why ted cruz saw where rand paul was going, marco rubio, and they all ran to meet him today i want but then you say i don't think he's necessarily native-born american. >> i didn't say that. i just said no comment. what you said -- >> what does that mean? >> yes, you've got the presidential candidates, the loons like ted cruz talking about we don't want to be al qaeda's air force. >> what i would like to say is i haven't studied enough on it, come back with an intelligent answer, so i will not respond. >> joining us is ryan grim and jonathan capehart, so gentlemen, i think we've all just witnessed a highly impressive performance of courage by the republican representative ted yoho of

florida. what i'm struck by is that he won't admit what's obvious, john. he is a birther with a capital "b." why not just come out with it? he has less courage than donald trump. >> no comment. look, the idea that we are discussing the president's birth certificate five years after it was proven -- the whole controversy was proven to be false is outrageous, and that a member of congress cannot be statesman enough to say they questions about the question's birth certificate are not part of the discussion, let's talk about other things that i disagree with the president on. >> he won't even say anything. he says no comment. >> right. that goes to the leaders, when the leadership of the republican parties was asked about the president's birth certificate, they did basically the same thing. they winked and nodded and said "no comment." >> ryan, i'm not sure who mr.

yoho thinks he's fooling. we have him on tape saying he wants to support steve stockman's birther bill. take a listen to this, ryan. >> steve stockman's got a bill that's going to look into the birth certificate again. would you be willing to co-sponsor it? so i called steve up and i said when i get back -- i want, yeah, i'll talk about it. >> i would have more respect if they actually had the courage of their disgusting convictions, a man who think it is it's impressive to joe an idiot like sheriff joe arpaio? >> he feels like he's basically what he believes by saying no comment. >> we just had him on tape supporting the stockman bill. >> sure, that's what he believes. he's one of the guys that does believe that. this is kind of what you get when you have representative

democracy tilted by gerrymandering. there are millions of people who don't think the president is legitimate. think he was born in africa, asia or somewhere, or wherever. they're certain there's just no way this guy can actually be our president, lo and behold they have some represent take in the house. >> earlier we saw rush limbaugh mouthing the same prop gan aa that he heard, mainly that assad was framed. does it not seem strange for limbaugh to carry water for murderous dictators? >> well, yes and no. yes, it seems strange, because he's talking about the president of the united states being complicit in ghastly murder, but no -- >> over 400 children. >> but no, i'm not surprised, because rush limbaugh hates the

president, and he will say anything that's negative, detrimental, harmful about the president that, you know, stokes up his listeners who also happen to be a large part of the republican party base. i don't know if i'm going to stomp on a question that you're about to ask, but from what i understand, he then at the end of his sort of weaving this conspiracy theory said -- yow, i don't know if this is true -- >> i'm just asking the question. i'm just putting it out there. >> but alls showed in those clips, he wasn't asking questions. he was very definitive. the president is behind this, complicit in it. >> absolutely. ryan, do you think the president of the united states is conspiring with terrorists in the middle east? because apparently mr. limbaugh does. >> well, look, rush doesn't care about this. he doesn't actually take it seriously. whatever position obama is going to have, he's going to take the opposite position. the problem here is there are

millions who are extraordinarily skeptical about u.s. claims of intelligence when they're going to war. >> yes. >> there's very good reason for that. they are lied into vietnam, lied into iraq. this wouldn't be the first time we were complicit with an attack in the middle east even. >> ryan, if that was the position, why wouldn't rush limbaugh and his ilk not recognize this particular president did not support the war in iraq? >> well, they supported the war in iraq and obama didn't, so they're comfortable there, because they get to, you know, have their cake and eat it, too. >> i'm getting quued, jonathan. one conspiracy at another. >> the common denominator is hatred for the president. as long as you keep that in mind, everything else that's happen in the swarm of conspiracy theories and republican opposition to the president will make sense. that's all you need to understand. >> thank you very much.

>> the republican party is on the verge of voting against war. i mean, what else -- >> incredible. ryan grim, jonathan capehart, thank you both. can we trust the rubble forces in syria? a chilling new video complicates that question next. stay with us. ♪ ♪ we go, go, we don't have to go solo ♪ ♪ fire, fire, you can take me higher ♪ ♪ take me to the mountains, start a revolution ♪ ♪ hold my hand, we can make, we can make a contribution ♪ ♪ brand-new season, keep it in motion ♪ ♪ 'cause the rhyme is the reason ♪ ♪ break through, man, it doesn't matter who you're talking to ♪ [ male announcer ] completely redesigned for whatever you love to do. the all-new nissan versa note. your door to more. ♪

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shot in april will only increase anxieties. the video which "new york times" acquired from a rebel group this week purports to show abdul samad issa reciting revolutionary verse after they brutally execute seven syrian soldiers. >> and for the avoidance of doubt, these are the individuals were considering fighting for. for more now, i'm joined by malcolm nance, a vettian intelligence officer and blogger small wars journal. welcome. let met put it bluntly. who are these people that we are supporting, and how much of this rebel opposition.

>> well, you have to understand that in syria, on the opposition side, everyone who is out there is a muslim. first we have the free syrian army, which is supposedly the moderate group, which we saw in that video, but there are men on the battlefield. they'll do brutal horrible things. second and most important is the al nasra front. they are essentially the syrian branch, they call themselves al qaeda in iraq. and the syrians whose office support them. on the other hand, you have another group entirely, which no one controls. they say there's 1,200 militia groups in syria. they are we call mwrs, men with rifle, who organized themselves, call themselves a battalion or brigade.

>> but the secretary of state. >> the second tear of state says he thinks the elements that one might deem to be extreme beyond management, as it were, numbers between 15 to 25%. do you think that's accurate? >> i think that's generally accurate. he's talking by the numbers that the cia have provided to the white house. there's approximately 10,000 fighters on the free syrian army. they're the people who are generally secular, defectors from the army, and other personnel who have come over to the rebel groups, but then you have 5,000 men in the al nasra front. when you throw in men with rifles, al qaeda is generally about 25% of the entire opposition battle force. >> right. >> this is part of the problem. we have not yet created an opposition that's capable of doing what we need done in syria. i say we, because that would be

the most expedient way to operate in syria. thomas friedman wrote as article that you're going to have to arm the rebels, because we're not going to put boots on the ground. you have to have a force that's organized, operates within legal authority, somewhat given the guidance that we've giving the libyan groups, but in the end, someone has to take over this battle. >> right. you know this is not the first time we've seen the kind of brutality that we just witnessed in that video. back in may, there was the infamous video of a rebel soldier allegedly eating the hard of a syrian soldier. i have to ask you how serious is the danger of these ruthless men with eventually ending up with this stockpile that assad currently has? >> well, this is without a doubt one of the most important factors that's going to have to be questioned during this battle. when this is all said and done, someone is going to come under

control of the chemical weapons that are in syria. there's other chemical weapons. uvx, sarin gas, mustard gas, phosgene, and capable weapons system xabd of projecting these weapons of mass destruction, not just within syria, but into israel, into lebanon, into saudi arabia, jordan and turkey. so whoever comes out on top here, they're going to have to get under control. whoever we support with whatever we do, if it's the possibility of air strikes, we're going to have to support the group that is going to have to bring these under international control when this battle is over. >> if assad falls and leaves in some way, and given the vacuum that would follow, is it your view that military strikes in syria would be the right thing to do now, or would you counsel against that? >> this is a tough enough, and i'm really glad that i'm not president of the united states, but what we have is -- we have

an actual circumstance where weapons of mass destruction has been used for the first time since saddam hussein used them on the battlefield in the iran/iraq war. we have the regime in syria has decided this weapons system is viable, it's on the table, they will use it when and where they please. to a certain extent i think this attack was just boiling the frog. to the assads, i think this was a small attack. if we do not punish syria, and by punishment i don't mean striking the chemical weapons or hitting the headquarters, you need to take away the syrian air force in one or two days, or a week. you need to do something which significantly changes his regime's ability to protect himself. you can't shoot individual rocket launchers. we just don't have that capable, and the president won't get authorizations for it, but we could certainly take away his

theater-level weapons system, which he really needs. he needs the helicopters, the fighter jets, to keep his bad within the middle east. >> malcolm nance, thank you for your time and insights. >> my pleasure. coming up, cry hayes on his exclusive interview with secretary of state john kerry. don't go away? [ female announcer ] research suggests cell health plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day women's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for women's health concerns as we age. with 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day women's 50+. [ babies crying ] surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise -- your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ] how about no more surprises? now you can get all the online trading tools you need without any surprise fees.

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>> if we don't do this, assad will have the message that he can use the weapons with impunity. we will have turned or back on the next batch of children, on the next batch of parents. we will have turned our back on the international norm, we will

have lost credibility in the world, and i guarantee you if we turn or backs today, the picture we all saw in the paper today of the media of those people being shot, that will take place more, because more extremists will be attracted to this because they will be funded as the only alternative in order to take on assad. >> that was my colleague chris hayes, who has just wrapped an exclusive interview airing tonight at 8:00 p.m. on his broadcast "all in." we're delighted to say chris has joined us for a preview. good afternoon. we just heard the secretary of state mounding the argument that he mounted before the senate foreign relations committee, that there is a deterrent value to the rest of the world if america strikes in a limited fashion on syria. what was your reaction to the argument, as he put it to you? >> well, the argument of the deterrent is the one we've heard before, and i think there's

several reasons to be somewhat skeptical of that. in the bite you just played, it's specifically an argument about who the rebels are, and he was trying to make the case that absent u.s. intervention, we will see grows strength among those parts of the syrian rebel forces that are the most extremity. everyone i think today horrified by the "new york times" cover piece. i asked him about that, and he said those people -- and if we do not act those people westbound strengthened and emboldened. i don't necessarily think that's the case. what came through the interview and i think was fascinating, i became more convinced than i had been before that there's a broader strategy here than in terms of at the policy, but no more 'menable to the believe that this limited strike here proposing is going to produce the outcome they seem to want to produce. >> right. did you ask him about whether iraq, as an example, has proven anything in relation to this

matter? we've had troops on the ground yet we've got insurgents rising up all over iraq. it's not had a deterrent effect. >> he was incredibly emphatic on this point. i asked him about the legacy of iraq. in some ways, he is doing -- he is putting the credibility of this personally on the personal shoulders of john kerry, basically saying i went through vietnam, i've seen a war of choice fought for the wrong reasons, i lived through the iraq debacle, and i am telling you, you know, with all of that knowledge that, a, i trust the intelligence here, and b, we need to act, because we have to send this message to the assad regime. again, i think the argument for liberals particularly like myself, the argument is strongest when you talk about some kind of accountability or sanction for what appears to be the gassing of 1400 people, something that i think people have an instinctual response to.

the problem seems to be that they are trying to create a situation with this finely calibrated use of force that is going to very narrowly enter into the conflict and then withdraw, and maintain an equilibrium to push all sides toward a negotiating table, but there are a whole host of reasons to think that actually won't be the case. in fact i asked him in a number of follow-up questions why we should think assad would be even subject to deterrence? why the rebels won't think we'll strike again? what happens if after we strike assad to punish him for chemicals weapons used there are nor weapons dough plied. >> the president has said he's confident, but is the secretary of state confident? >> well, he's very confident. he says the president himself, the vice president are all making calls, all lobbying individual members of congress. i -- he had an interesting

reaction when i asked about his friend, colleague and the man who occupation hi senate seat, ed markey, who voted present. he was so unpersuaded by john kerry's testimony before the foreign relations committee that he voted present. i asked the secretary about that, he had a very interesting response to that that people should check out. they very confident. i think they have to say they're confident at this point. what are they going to say? if you look at how the whip count is going, i think you have to assume that something like 80% of the republican caucus is going to vote no on this. there's no whipping operation from the leadership, they do not like this president, the grassroots is incredibly opposed to this. they've got an uphill battle. >> indeed they have, chris. we're so grateful for you joining us. we'll be watch you are your interview at 8:00 p.m. on all interests. thanks so much. >> my pleasure. thank you so much for

watching this afternoon. remember, catch chris matthews and "hardball" at 7:00 p.m., right here on msnbc. but coming up right now, is "the ed show." \s. let's get to work and not war. >> what the president is asking for will provide the support needed to -- >> either you love freedom and with nations which embrace freedom, or you're with the enemy. >> quite frankly i'm a bit skeptical. >> you have to have a vision. >> there are known knowns, things we know we no. there are known unknowns. >> and you have to provide the kind of leadership a commander in chief would provide. >> that is to say, we know there's some things that we do not know.