>> pickup hoops at noon. do you want to be skins or shirts? >> there we go. doesn't it just look photo shopped? we had couple for mr. kraft for the patriots saying he wants his ring back. i think obama wants to put him in a headlock. "morning joe" starts right now. >> i feel confident that what i am doing is informed by my own lessons of war and opposition of war and also by my years of supporting certain military actions when they're forpts to the security off -- important to the security off ur nation. i believe this is important to the security of our country. iran will feel embolden, iran, who we're in a major confrontation with over the potential they may be developing a nuclear weapon, iran could read it in the wrong way which could create a more dangerous

confrontation down the road. chris, i've thought a lot about this. i know the lessons of war. i don't believe this is taking america to war. >> good morning. it's friday, september 6th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, msnbc and "time" magazine senior political analyst mark halperin, pulitz pulitzer-prize winning columnist -- >> the beard stays in the movie. >> i don't agree. >> day two. >> day two. >> pulitzer-prize winning columnist and associate editor of "the washington post" eugene robinson. >> i always wanted a pulitzer prize. >> there you go. >> borrow it. >> chairman of deutsch incorporated donny deutsch. >> and gene always wanted things you've had. >> in washington, "new york times" reporter jereny peters and chief washington correspondent for "the new york times" david sanger with us as well. thanks for being with us this morning. big show today. >> yesterday, you know, i was on the phone an awful lot and even before that, you started hearing

people talking about america's response to this. >> yeah. >> and every senator, every congressman, every staffer on capitol hill, told me the same thing. you know, i see these polls that say 20% of americans support the intervention and 80% oppose it. i'd like it to find those 20% because they're not there. i'm stunned. gene and -- i'm sure you've heard the same thing. >> yeah. i mean it's pretty clear that there's not popular support for a strike. >> that's an understatement. >> period. >> and they're not finding it. so i -- i mean i think this is a difficult -- the white house says oh, not to worry, nothing to worry about here. i think they should be worried. >> there are people i know who would never think to call their congressman who called. that's anecdotal but interesting. >> you're hearing that. it's anecdotal like i said, i was in pensacola, like i said,

four days, long weekend, everybody came up to me, what are we doing? they have to stay out. democrats and republicans. mark halperin, what makes this difficult for anybody whipping this, and the word is boehner and cantor aren't whipping it that hard, but the bigger problem is, you've got both bases saying, if you vote for this, liberals and conservatives, you're going to get primaried. i don't think i have seen a vote as unpopular with both bases at the same time as this vote for some time. >> when there's hard votes, particularly in this age when you need republican and democratic votes, joint whip operation, the coverage is always perils of paul lean, the president can't win. yesterday i thought he would. now i'm deeply skeptical because time is not on the president's side right now. you've got members scattered around the country, doing their best to reach out to them, but beyond boehner and pelosi and

eric cantor, all the momentum is against the president right now. the white house says -- "washington post" this morning says the white house isn't worried. the president will come home from the trip and make a national address. public opinion and the member dynamics are all going against the white house. i'm not sure right now how to get time back on their side. >> the public against them, members of congress against them and the u.s. military against them. a searing op-ed in "the washington post" from retired general that we'll get to later, but i think there are two important editorials to read plus anything gene ever writes. >> every word. >> bill chris toll with the weekly standard, they just released an editorial this morning, 6:00 a.m., supporting the war and then you've got robert scales who has written, i'll just read one line, the military's embarrassed to be associated with the amateurism

of the obama administration's attempts to craft a plan that makes strategic sense. none of the white house staff has any experience in war or understands it. so far at least this path to war violates every principle of war, including the element of surprise, achieving mass and having a clearly defined and obtainable objective. it goes much deeper into that. i read basically the punch line. i think every american should read this and bill kristol's op-ed in support of the war. >> the plotting to craft a plan and wayward as it's been, donny deutsch, making the case hasn't happened which could really make a big difference. >> i'll help make the case, i'm one of the 20%. >> there you go. >> i'm surprised there's only 20%. one of the reasons -- >> i am too. >> okay. >> as am i. >> i think one of the reasons you say to the average person, should we go to war with syria? of course the answer is no. if you reframe the question, should we do everything we can to protect our country and make

sure the north koreas and irans and every other fringe lunatic in the world knows we cannot be played with. >> kind of a long -- >> it was a long question, but there is one fact that has proven through history, unanswered aggression breeds more aggression and i think actually kerry has put it perfectly, it's not war, it's a punishing strike. and for the use of gas against children. joe, you and i have a lot of fun, mr. liberal, i'm as far from liberal on this as possible and i am shocked the country is not lining up. >> i think the use of chemical weapons is such a big deal. it's just so far beyond the pale that i think a punitive strike is in order, but you know, the problem is you've got concrete versus conceptual. it's conceptual reasons to do it. the chemical weapons and also the undermining the authority of the u.s. president which is an important factor in the world and has been an important factor in the world for decades.

>> it's everything. >> versus concrete, you know, starting another war in the middle east, which is the way people see it. and that's just a it tough sell. >> nobody sold is at a war though. >> the problem is the president hasn't sold it. come on, let's just look at this politically, i'm not looking at it as a republican or conservative, the president -- the past week is acting disastrous to the support of this war and why americans are at 20%, you send the secretary of state out, chop him off, then you -- at the knees and say we're going go to congress and say i don't really need to go to congress, i can go to war anyway, and the president having the press conference going this isn't about me. my credibility is not on the line. the president, if he wants to push assad back, and there are a lot of people strategically that thinks he does, he better come home and sell it quickly. i gave you the con.

give you what we're reading on the pro side. the right vote by bill kristol. the statesman like case for voting yes to use force against the assad regime has been made widely and well by conservative foreign policy thinkers. at the end, the case boils down to this, as a policy matter, a yes vote may be problematic and all kinds of ways. but a no vote would likely be disastrous for the nation in very clear ways. statesmanship and i agree with kristol here, statesmanship requires choosing the problematic over the disastrous and -- >> great story. >> it is a terrible choice. >> and i think a lot of americans are like me, very, very conflicted and we're going to see what president does. >> let me show you some americans not conflicted. >> no, no, no. i think that foreign policy leaders are conflicted.

>> yes. yes. advocates like senator john mccain, already dealing with blowback in their home districts. republicans and democrats alike faced angry voters in town halls this week with many constituents making it clear they do not want the u.s. to get involved. take a look. >> it is a moral and just people we should not be continuing to make war. we should be looking for peace. >> do you really realize what you're getting our -- what you're getting our country into. this is what i think of congress. they are a bunch of marshmallows. >> you can do it by negotiating, by diplomacy, and negotiation, not bombs, senator mccain. enough is enough. we do not want another engagement in the middle east. >> i would much rather use our taxpayers' money to take care of our vets coming home from the two conflicts we've been in. >> i don't think i need to be lectured to about veterans,

okay. >> by the way, i understand the anger of every one of those people. i really do. that's the real problem. we are exhausted. >> exhausted. >> after a decade of war. you know -- >> think of the families that have been torn apart. >> not only were we sent to a war in iraq under bogus pretenses -- >> these are not bogus pretenses -- >> let me finish, donny. >> sorry. >> we had to deal with that, right? and then we had to deal with the president which we were all against, tripling the number of troops in afghanistan, when we knew he was tripling the number of troops in afghanistan it wasn't going to work. we are exhausted. i understand that, but i also understand, david sanger, that if you talk to the top foreign policy strategists, a decade ago, in the middle east, and you said, okay, what are the two or three countries that are our strategic if not enemies because dr. brzezinski doesn't like to

call anybody an enemy, let's just say our chief rivals -- >> adversaries -- >> really good word, david sanger, why you write for "the new york times" -- >> exactly. >> it would be iran and syriap. >> yeah. >> and ends there. i mean it would be iran and it would be syria. and so it's interesting that we go into kosovo, we go into bosnia, we triple the number of troops in afghanistan, we go into iraq, when under false pretenses and then here we have syria using chemical weapons killing over 100,000 people and at this point, when there may be a justified reason to strike, americans are just too exhausted. >> well, joe, i think the president has got three challenges here. one is the communications difficulties that i think you laid out. he has not made a case yet. the second one that he's got is that he has embraced, at least in concept, the idea of a responsibility to protect, that

the u.s. has a role, as do other members of the international community, to step in and keep a population from being terrorized by a dictator. that was essentially the argument for the libya incursion two years ago. and so far, no one is buying that, even in his own party. then his third problem i think, this gets to a story we had in the paper this morning, is that at the very moment congress wants to limit the role here, he recognizes that if he's going to be effective on the ground in syria, he needs to expand his target set and do something that gets at what senator mccain has been talking about and other conservatives which is actually affect the regime itself. and that's the disconnect in this policy right now. which is, it's a punishment. i think the president called it a shot across the bow when he was on pbs last week, and the pentagon looks at this and they say, we don't do shots across the bow.

when the u.s. military gets in, you have to get in decisively. >> want to bring jeremy peters in, but "the wall street journal" first reports the u.s. has intercepted orders from iran to militants in iraq to attack the u.s. embassy in iraq and other american interests there. meanwhile, in an exclusive interview with msnbc's chris hayes, secretary kerry sought to convince americans that u.s. credibility would be damaged without a military response and that attacks would be brief and without boots on the ground. >> a lot of americans, a lot of your listeners, a lot of people in the country are saying oh, my gosh, this is going to be iraq. this is going to be afghanistan. here we go again. i know this. i've heard it. and the answer is no, profoundly no. we're to the remotely talking about getting america involved directly in between any of those forces. the president is not talking about assuming responsibility for syria's civil war.

what the president is trying to do and we believe is important to america's national security interests and to humanitarian interests and it interests of israel and jordan and lebanon and all of our friends in the region, is that you hold bashar al assad responsible for use of chemical weapons and that you degrade his ability to use them again and deter him from using them again. >> all right. >> so we're sitting here -- >> no. >> gene, i want to say this, we're sitting here having this discussion. >> yeah. >> and going, why are we having this discussion? >> because this is the discussion we didn't have before other engagements. >> okay. not talking about wars. talking about dropping missiles, the element of surprise and we're sitting here litigating this for a week when the president should have done the strategic attacks if he was going to do it and then talk about it after. >> no. >> this is the kind of discussion one would think you

would have if you were contemplating a war. for iraq, for example. >> you can't promise that won't happen. if you're going to drop -- >> you can't promise that. in fact it didn't happen in kosovo -- i mean we do know how to do this so the of -- if you're going to drop bombs as a punitive strike -- >> and strategically. >> and if the president has the authority to do that, i always thought it was better to ask forgiveness than permission. >> it's called the element of surprise. instead of going like this, hold on, hold on. i'm going to hit you. >> okay. i get that. >> i'm going to hit you. hold on. >> school boy. >> john kerry talk about it forever. let's have the president talk about it forever. let's have a leak one day saying it's just going to be a shot across the bow, a leak the next day going it's just going to be a strike to punish, a leak the next day from the white house that well actually the president wants it to be strong enough so

he's not mocked and ridiculed. come on, this is amateurism. this is amateur hour. >> i disagree. >> to a degree i've never seen. >> joe -- >> hold on, first -- >> got to get jeremy. >> we haven't got jeremy in here. >> what are they saying on capitol hill? you're the guy closest to that as far as the vote count goes. we're hearing all anecdotally it's looking bad for the president. >> i think first of all these early vote counts, whip counts you're seeing out there, i don't know how useful they are this far out. i mean you have to remember, a lot of members of congress are not even in washington, haven't been here since the end of july. so i think when they all come back -- >> how do you get that job? that's a good job. >> yeah. >> no, it's true. they've been gone five weeks. so when they get back and they start receiving all of these classified briefings, i think that starts to change the calculus a little bit. that said, you know, i do think that you're going to have a

number of -- a large number of both republicans and democrats who are articulating that exact argument that mika was making earlier, which is that there's no way to predict what happens once a bomb strike occurs and members of congress who may not be as solid in their opposition as it would appear, i don't think the opposition is as unmovable as made out in the press. they want to hear that the president has a plan. >> you know, here's his problem, though. we talked about the left, jeremy, being against this. we've talked about the right being against this. yesterday, you had two conservative democrats, two moderate democrats, joe manchin and heidi hide camp saying they're not supporting it either you wonder where the president goes. >> you can't write off the concerns of moderate democrats like joe manchin and heidi high

camp or in the congress people like jim mcder month and jim mcgovern. i think the president has to take them very seriously. >> joe, i -- i spoke -- >> david sanger, you reported on joe manchin's plan. tell us about it. >> i had a chat with him yesterday. he's got an interesting idea and i -- while i'm not sure his idea is going to prevail, something like it may end up being embraced by the white house. what senator man chin suggested was that assad be given 45 days to sign the chemical weapons convention. syria is one of the few countries that has not signed it and to begin to secure and ultimately dismantle the chemical weapons. that's a long process. it's taken the united states 14 or 15 years and we're not done with our own stockpiles. but the idea was to basically put a diplomatic action and a test ahead of assad before the u.s. and before the president and an authorization to strike.

i wouldn't be surprised if you see the president end up having to go some kind of version of that route. >> which, of course, gives the presidents also, joe manchin, believes, 45 days, to actually come up with a strategy. and i don't say that facetio facetiously, but come up with a military strategy instead of saying -- >> and diplomatic strategy. >> more importantly a diplomatic strategy because he just doesn't have one right now and that's why the military is so horrified. >> there's no doubt that as a snapshot of today the president is going to suffer a bad defeat. no doubt within a week, there's going to be a confluence of things that could turn this back. a presidential address, aipac lobbying efforts. members back in town getting more focused briefings and another meeting between the president and the congressional leadership where he tries to enlist boehner, cantor and pelosi to engage in a joint whip operation in the house. all those things could come together and turn this back. the thing that's happening -- >> the thing that's happening

that's troubling for the president is, members aren't saying i'm very skeptical of this. you have a number of members coming out saying, i'm against. it's possible that some new proposal like manchin could be floated and members who said i was against the original resolution, i can be for this, that's possible. it is extraordinary as mika and you both said tat the top, the strength of public opinion and willingness of people to express an opinion who normally don't think about things like this is going to be hard to change. >> we're hearing it and the president's hearing it and members of congress are hearing it but i think that is part of the process, whether the president acts on his own, which i could see happening, to not have taken the time to hear from the american people, given what we have been through, i think would be a terrible mistake. and i think even though many would disagree, if he decides to act on his own, i think they will respect that at least he took the time to listen to the american people which i think

did not happen before. >> i have very little to say to that. only because the president has gotten in his own way. the white house has leaked things from the very beginning. the president has talked about shots across the bow. the president has tried to play it too safe. the president has tried to lead from behind. leading from behind worked, it worked with gadhafi. leading from behind politically has been disastrous over the past week for the president's own interests and by the way, i'm not burying this thing yet either. again, like i said, i'm -- i've been against, you know, bosnia, i was against kosovo, i wish i had been against the iraq war, i was against tripling the number of troops in afghanistan, heck i was even against the surge because i didn't think they were giving him enough troops and i thought the president mishandled the troops he had gobeen given over the past three or four years. i will tell you, i don't know

how america turns away from 100,000 dead, the use of chemical weapons, and the agent of iran, while this -- we are looking backward. >> i don't think it does. >> this is the only thing i'm going to say and i'm still making up my mind. we are looking backwards over the past ten years, we need to look forward over the next five years and ask one question. >> yes. >> how does this impact iran and their will to develop nuclear weapons. >> exactly. joe, what's so interesting is the story line, i'm going to pick up where mika says, we have to do this, but for the very reason of the exhaustion you talked about, is the reason obama is handling it right. not jumping in. the thing you criticize him about -- >> let me finish. >> donny -- >> joe, let me finish. >> the president should have kept his mouth shut. >> joe -- >> until he had a strategy. >> which is what -- >> he has no military strategy. donny, he has no military

strategy. >> which is why you don't fire immediately. why you say i'm going to punish you. you step back, you get -- >> okay. >> you get your folks lined up with you, you get a plan and you do it. >> i think the president over the last week has handled -- >> no diplomatic leader in washington, d.c. >> for him to have pushed the button immediately would have played into the very fact that you're making about ten years of exhaustion. >> donny, you don't send your secretary of state out -- >> that was a mistake. >> beat the drums of war. >> that was a mistake. >> you don't say -- you don't say you're going to fire a shot across the bow. you don't have leaks come out of your white house saying we're going to punish him. you don't then say we're going to punish him just enough to make sure that we don't look really, really weak. the president has made terrible mistakes, as mark halperin said, maybe he's able it to clean this up. i personally hope he is able to clean this up. >> he will. >> i am not for all of my dear liberal friends watching, i am not rooting against the president of the united states. because we only have one

commander in chief. we only have one america. we only have one reputation across the globe and this has been an embarrassing week for us as a nation and that starts in my opinion and ends with the president of the united states who's bungled this terribly. i hope it changes over the next week. not for the sake of the president, for the sake of this country. >> amen. >> i think it will. i think the politics is -- >> his heart is in the right place on this. >> i think it is. >> it will end right. >> david sanger, thank you very much. jeremy peters, stay with us if you can. coming up on "morning joe," former governor and presidential candidate jon huntsman will join us. democratic senator chris murphy will be with us to explain his no vote on the syria resolution. and david gregory and the reverend al sharpton will be here as well. up next the top stories in the politico playbook. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> and a great weekend forecast it's going to be, mika. we're starting off with a cold

snap in new england. grab the jackets for the kids this morning as they head to the bus stop. we're watching beautiful sunshine. so the sunglasses will be needed as we go throughout the day. look at the temperatures, coldest morning we've seen since the spring. 42 in areas of vermont, 45 as far south as hartford, connecticut. some people probably had to turn the heat on in their homes last night. as we mentioned the is time of year you will get a beautiful afternoon with blue skies out there. enjoy it. what a spoiled week it's going to be. some areas around new york city should be in the 70s for five, six, maybe seven days in a row with very little rain. so like a beautiful fall forecast for much of new england this weekend. the middle of the country, that's the difference. look how hot it's going to be today. still in the mid to upper 90s all the way from montana to minneapolis to san antonio. and as we go through the weekend, it gets a little cooler in the northern half of the country but still very warm, right through denver, dallas, all through houston and new orleans. middle of the country not getting any taste of that cool, beautiful, crispp fall weather

we're seeing in new england today. still feels the like the middle of summer. you're watching "morning joe." man: sometimes it's like we're still in college. but with a mortgage. and the furniture's a lot nicer. and suddenly, the most important person in my life is someone i haven't even met yet. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. as you plan your next step, we'll help you get there.

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the all-new 2014 lexus is. it's your move. 129 past the hour. time to take a look at the morning papers. "the washington post," popular yogurt will recall some of its products after reports of illness due to mold. customers -- >> is that bad? >> that's bad. >> mold in yogurt. >> but it's a good yogurt. >> it is. if you can look and try to guess which one doesn't have mold, it's good yogurt. >> some of the cups even hissed when they were open. >> okay. you like that. >> that's terrible.

affected contain marked with the code 16-012 and expire between september 11th and october 7th. still a good product, give it a chance. if it hiss at you, that's no good. >> you vomit for 14 days straight, you might want to t another brand. >> officials are blaming an illegal campfire for the rim fire that is still burning across yosemite national park. on august 17th a hunter's fire grew out of control sparking the fourth. no arrests made. the rim fire is 80% controlled but it's already destroyed more than 230,000 acres. >> "l.a. times," 12 employees from several schools in the los angeles area are accused of stealing more than 7,000 textbooks. the books were then sold illegally to distributors like amazon.com. one book buyer paid a total of $200,000 for the stolen books between 2008 and 2010.

in some cases books were sold back to the schools they were initially stolen from. >> so who -- >> that is -- >> the woman who's pictured here we had. it's not like the superintendent of schools. do you know? look into it. she's probably superintendent of the schools and makes it look like she stole 7,000 -- 7 -- 7,000 books. that would be called false light. we want to clean that up. >> no, we don't want to do that. >> "usa today," new reports indicate e-cigarette use is on the rice. 1.8 middle and high school students tried e-cigarettes last year. a figure that has doubled since 2011. experts say e-cigarettes may be introduced tobacco products to teens who would not otherwise try smoking. the fda may announce plans to regulate e-cigarettes over the next few months. i have to say again, you know, you've got friends that have

used this -- >> it's helped them get off smoking. >> my good friend that's been smoking for 35 years. >> it's amazing. >> he just -- i was with him four hours straight, he's basically stopped smoking. he'll have an ecigarette. he tried for 30 years. >> yeah. >> i'm sure there are people there that are you know drawing horns on me saying these things cause your lungs to fall out. >> it is fascinating. at least for this one guy it stopped him from smoking three packs a day. >> this weekend's "parade" magazine a close-up with marco rubio and his family. let's go to politico. with us chief white house correspondent mike allen with the morning playbook. kentucky, mike. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell under fire once again from the senate conservatives fund. the group spent $340,000 on this new ad saying mcconnell isn't doing enough to defund obama care. >> obama care starts in october. but congress can stop its

funding. what's mitch mcconnell doing? nothing. mcconnell is the senate republican leader but he refuses to lead on defunding obama care. what good is a leader like that? it's nice that mcconnell voted against obama care but we need real leadership to stop it now. tell mitch mcconnell to join the fight to stop obama care before it's too late. senate conservatives fund is responsible for the contents of this message. >> oh, lord. >> team mitch campaign manager jesse benton responded saying, quote, i love this statement, there are few organizations in american politics more responsible for the democratic majority in the u.s. senate, and thus the continued existence of obama care, than the senate conservatives fund. it is no surprise now that when it comes time for conservatives to band together and fight this horrible law, they've instead chosen to attack fellow conservatives rather than work alongside to protect americans from the effects of obama care.

benton went on to list all of those failed right wing senate candidates, extreme right wing senate candidates, that had been supported by the senate conservative fund and they were, quote, sure fire senate wins. sharron engle, todd akin, richard mourdock, that's who this, quote, conservative fund has supported, right. so now, mark halperin, this conservative fund that like sharron engle and richard mourdock and todd akin, basically the very people that have stopped us, we republicans from having the majority in the senate, are now for some reason deciding to go after the senate majority leader. does this not explain exactly what is wrong with some of these special interest groups and why the republican party is not a majority party in the senate. >> those names will live in infamy for long time because

those are all senate seats that republicans would hold today if they hadn't nominated those people in a lot of those cases. senator mcconnell is doing everything possible to keep this from happening it to him, but he still faces probably a tougher general election fight than a nomination fight. that nomination fight will tie him up a long time and jesse benton is aggressive but this is almost something mcconnell can't do anything about. he just has to wait it out and see if his poll numbers get better enough for him -- >> jeremy peters, mark halperin is right, it's far more likely mitch mcconnell would lose a general election than a primary election. you wonder whether this conservative group which so-called conservative group which is kept harry reid as senate majority leader, mine it's almost like they're a front helping the democratic opponent. we're going to knock mitch

mcconnell down, beat him up and we're going to see if -- it's mind boggling to me, jeremy. doesn't help him in the general election. it helps the democrats. >> the democrats have a very it tough year ahead of them and i think that the one hope that they can cling to is there are enough of these tea party races that take out incumbents early on and give them a shot at holding on to what is a very fragile majority. >> no doubt about it. >> all right. thank you, mike. you guys were great. >> he started his weekend early and fumbling around with e-cigarettes and went very badly. >> oh. poor mike. >> coming up, peyton manning helps usher in the 2013 football season by throwing seven touchdowns against last year's defending champs. highlights from the broncos/ravens game next in sports. >> unbelievable ending to the red sox/yankees game. ready to run your lines? okay, who helps you focus on your recovery?

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last night. >> unbelievable night for the sox. >> incredible. >> sox, awesome. >> they're awesome. >> really. >> somebody who has a bigger slice of awesomeness last night would be peyton manning. >> unbelievable. >> broncos and ravens. >> that guy does -- >> he does have a future. >> ravens won the super bowl last year but last night didn't look so good.

second half, that's wes welker. look at the replay. this is kind of a turning point. trapped it. didn't challenge it. called it a catch. little bit later, they got this. >> touchdown run. >> that's not touchdown number one. >> like 47 touchdowns. >> how about this blocked punt. that set up another touchdown throw. that went to welker. he had two catches on the night. i have him on my fantasy team with peyton manning. >> you have peyton manning on your fantasy team? you're in high cotton my friend. >>s this is -- >> go all the way! number seven. six people all time have dup it. >> what adults have time to be in fantasy football leagues? >> are you kidding me? >> everybody does but me. >> we need to get you in there. >> even my wife -- >> i don't have time. >> gene, do you have time to be in fantasy football league? >> no, i don't. >> that's bologna you were talking about rg3 before the

show. >> he's quick to say no. >> so peyton manning breaks records, seven touchdown passes, wow. >> red sock. >> the sox up 7-2 last night. >> easy, right? >> they're winning. >> easy peasy. >> get lazy? >> they didn't get lazy. >> in my lazy boy. >> my e-cigarettes. >> your couch. the yankees came back and take an 8-7 lead. >> what's this about? >> last year the bobby valentine sox would have rolled over. >> eaten fried chicken and got drunk in the dugout. >> something like mad dog. >> i'm excited. >> he's excited. >> this goes into extras. >> check swing. didn't call a strike and joe girardi was mad. >> knocks in -- >> he muscles one to right. >> game winning right. >> so nobody at the beginning of this season -- nobody at the beginning of the season gave the red sox any chance to finish

just barely above .500 this is one of those special teams. they dump $250 million of payroll last year. $250 million of payroll. and look at this. >> i will say one thing -- >> please do. >> the roster doesn't look great. they like each other. they play hard for their manager. that makes a difference. >> by the way -- >> that's very red sox. >> nobody is paying attention to them -- >> in los angeles nobody pays attention. >> a lot different in boston. >> that's the most suffocating town to play baseball. l.a., come on, nobody cares. >> 45 minutes on the freeway on the 405, who cares. >> kind of like lounge around. kirk gibson hits a home run, people are in the parking lot -- >> all righty. >> one exception. >> must-read opinion pages next on "morning joe." with the spark miles card from capital one,

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your colleague and friend and the man who took over your seat ed markey yesterday voted present he was so apparently unpersuaded by the testimony you gave in front of that committee. what is your reaction to ed markey voting present? >> that's not what ed told me. he told me he hadn't had a chance to read the intelligence report in the entirety. he didn't want to read the public version. he wanted to read the full version. when he feels fully informed he'll make the right decision. >> 47 past the hour. a live look at the white house as the sun comes up over washington. earlier, joe read a portion from retired army general robert scales, he spoke to dozens of active and retired soldiers and goesen to say this in his piece. they are repelled by the hypocrisy of a media blitz that warns against the return of hitlerism but privately acknowledges the motive offing american lives is our responsibility to protect the world's innocent.

prospective action in syria is not about threats to american security. the u.s. military civilian masters privately are proud they are motivated by guilt over slauters in rwanda, sudan and kosovo and not by any systemic threat to our country. they are outraged by the fact that what may happen is an act of war and a willingness to risk american lives to make up for a slip of the tongue about red lines. these acts would be for retribution reputation of a president. killing more syrians won't deter iranian resolve to confront us. the iranians have already gotten the message. >> well, this story has not played it itself out yet. i agree with a lot of what this general is saying. it hasn't played itself out yet. the iranians will take the message from the full measure of all of our actions an we still don't know if the president is going to step up and show more

strength. >> we -- the story still has to play out. >> right. >> i read that op-ed. it's a very tough piece. it goes on at the end to say, but, of course, you know, we all believe in civilian and our military and our military will go do the job. i think generals basically should shut up. in the sense that we do have civilian control of the military and generals don't set our policy and they should advise -- >> can i just say this, though, generals did warn george w. bush that he was underselling the cost of the iraq war, that they needed more troops in there, that rumsfeld was wrong for trying to win it on the cheap and we should have listened to those generals and -- even dempsey, dempsey has made it clear to lawmakers he doesn't want to go into syria. >> and it's their job to advise

and to give their best professional views about what we should or should not do. but in the end, this is -- i've lived in countries where generals were not under civilian control. >> it's not good. >> we're not going there. i remember during iraq, there was a british general who was publicly critical of tony blair's handling of the war. i happened to agree with the general but i wrote a column saying you have to fire this guy. get rid of this guy. >> just like what happened in afghanistan. okay. >> all right. >> jeremy -- >> we're going to get to your piece in the next hour. jeremy peters, thanks for being on with us this morning. >> yes. >> so what's happening on the hill today? >> it's pretty quiet today. i think next week is when it's going to pick up. all of the memberrs start returning back from their districts and you could see a vote in the senate on the war resolution as early as wednesday i think. and the house you're probably not going to see it until the

week after. i think this is going to go on for quite a while. if you think this week we were consumed by syria, next week will be twice as much. >> share this embarrassing text. >> my girlfriend said hey you look good, honey, but i agree with joe. wow. that was devastating. >> okay. you got a smart girlfriend. >> wow. that's amazing. >> start turning on the home front, nowhere to go. >> took a while for you to find one, but you got a smart girlfriend. >> the reverend al sharpton is standing by in the green room and will join us in a few minutes. also, kenneth cole facing serious criticism. >> what's he doing some. >> for use -- >> did you see this? >> no. >> what's he doing? >> we'll show you when we return. it's unbelievable. cheap marketing tool. helicopthierhis hibuzzing, andk engine humming. sfx: birds chirping

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let me take this. mika just read this story on the front of the "daily news" and "the new york post" and is deeply disturbed. she doesn't want us to show you all. it is horrible. this is generally bad taste. i'm sorry. we've had him on the show. i like the guy. this is bad taste. fashion designer kenneth cole in the news again and i suppose maybe this is part of it. >> duh. >> maybe we're just -- maybe we

just jumped in -- >> too much. >> to a duped. you know, i've thrown him in the patch here. he got in trouble for making light of the middle east for drawing attention to his business. cole tweeted this, boots on the ground or not. let's forget about -- let's not forget about sandals, pumps and loafers. #footwear. bad taste. >> yeah. look he's always done that. used the news. >> yeah, but not war. >> yeah. >> but not chemical. not places where 100,000 people are dead and kids have been gassed. >> no. kenneth missed on this one. they've always done this pitt this but you times -- >> but usually they're more positive. >> cole responded to the negative reaction with the statement, quote, for 30 years i've used my platform in provocative ways to encourage

dialog about important issues. i'm well aware of the risks that come with this approach and if this encourages further awareness and discussion about critical issues then all the better. >> that's b.s. >> talk about sandals. let's really talk about the critical issue of sandles. >> used the middle east unrest for marketing in 2011 as the protests in egypt were becoming more violent, cole tweeted this. millions are in uproar in cairo. rumor is, they heard our new spring collection. >> okay. that's it. that's it. we're cutting him off. i cannot believe we played right into it. look. he's got the sunglasses on and everything. >> yeah. >> you know come on. >> you can't bite. we bit. >> we bit. >> i tell you what -- >> and a picture of him and everything and the pretty wife. >> all right. coming up next, david axelrod joins the conversation with reverend al sharpton and chuck todd, live from st. petersburg, russia. when we return. [ male announcer ] these days, a small business can save by sharing.

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welcome back to mck to "mor joe." mark halperin and eugene robinson with us. >> that was hard to get the "morning joe" helicopter. phil griffin, there it is. there's the "morning joe" helicopter. phil griffin, it costs a lot of money. >> joining the table, the host of msnbc's "politics nation" and

president of the national action network, reverend al sharpton. and in chicago, former senior adviser to president obama and director of the university of chicago's institute of politics and msnbc contributor david axelrod. good to have you all on board this hour. >> al, you have something big going on at the apollo. >> advancing the dream. 50 years after the march on washington and dr. king's speech, the march, laid out what we want from congress, tonight we're going to celebrate how far we've come. >> stevie is coming. >> stevie wonder. >> magic johnson. tyler perry and i did an interview with condoleezza rice, none of whom could have made it without dr. king and the movement and they're going to talk about their struggles, what they face, how they made it. and where we need to go 50 years from now. they're going to talk about what we need to do to make the dream real. >> we heard so many stories. condi, here was a little girl in

birmingham, alabama, she was alive during the '63 bombing. >> friends with denise mcneil. >> two of the girls. >> and this interview i did she's the only one that will not be there live. the rest will be live tonight. in the interview i got her to talk about it and she talked about things she never talked about before. she felt the ground shake when the bomb went off and didn't know it was her friends went off. >> we have one. show a clip to tease it. >> we're going to be talking about syria. >> my dad's church was only about two miles from 16th street baptist church. it was like the ground shook. for kids in birmingham my age, i was 8, it was, how could these people hate us so much. >> we look back on the civil rights movement and the speech, but this is a great example, a tragic example, of how people that lead with hatred and with killing actually destroy their

own cause. that bombing probably did more, did it not, to wake up middle americans to say okay, enough is enough. i think it did. it happened after the march. >> right after the march. >> right after the march. king had talked about the dream. and to think that those young girls of killed, one of their best friends became secretary of state, we don't know what they would have been. that's the tragedy of not only their lives being lost but what america lost and we're going to talk about it. >> we'll hear more tonight at 10:00 at the apollo. really excited about it. >> at 8:00. >> broadcast live from 8:00 to 10:00 on msnbc. >> all right. now to syria as president obama makes his case for attacking syria, is there anything -- it'sing anything but a done -- it's anything but a done deal in congress. nancy pelosi known for her ability to deliver democratic ayes, some of her top lieutenants are not on board.

the latest whip count moving on the wrong direction for the president. more senators like joe manchin moved into the no column. according to tracking by "the washington post," and of house members being tracked by the paper, more and more are solidly leaning no or against strikes altogether. advocates like senator john mccain are dealing with blow back in their home districts. republicans and democrats alike face angry voters in town halls this week with many constituents making it clear they do not want the u.s. to get involved. >> there's a moral and just people, we should not be continuing to make war. we should be looking for peace. >> you reallyize what you're getting our country into. this is what i think of congress. they are a bunch of marshall mellows. >> you can do it by diplomacy. and negotiation. not bombs, senator mccain. enough is enough. we do not want another

engagement in the middle east. >> i would much rather use our taxpayers' money to take care of our vets coming home from the two conflicts we've already been in. >> i don't think i need to be lectured to about veterans. okay. >> you want to keep going? >> yeah. >> i think this is a healthy conversation people are having, given our history. the wault journal reports the u.s. has intercepted orders from iran to militants in iraq to attack the u.s. embassy in iraq and other american interests there. meanwhile, in an exclusive interview with msnbc's chris hayes, secretary of state john kerry sought to convince americans that u.s. credibility would be damaged without a military response and that attacks would be brief and without boots on the ground. >> a lot of americans, a lot of your listeners, a lot of people in the country are saying oh, my gosh, this is going to be iraq, this is going to be afghanistan. here we go again. i know this. i've heard it. and the answer is no, profoundly

no. we're not remotely talking ability getting america involved directly in between any of those forces. the president is not talking ability assume -- about assuming responsibility for syria's civil war. what the president is trying to do and we believe is important to america's national security interests and to humanitarian interests and to the interests of israel and jordan and lebanon and all of our friends in the region, is that you hold bashar al assad responsible for use of chemical weapons and that you degrade his ability to use them again and deter him from using them again. >> let's go to david axelrod. has the president made any missteps over the past week he needs to clean up when he gets back to the united states? >> make the case and make it on his biggest stage as he can possibly make it. i heard you saying well it's, you know, can nancy pelosi whip

her delegation into her -- her caucus into support. the president needs to make the case and give them the arguments and the cover frankly for a yes vote and that's very, very important. in terms of missteps, joe, i think if you asked anybody in the white house, if they could have it back, would he have signaled earlier that he was going to congress, i think the answer to that is yes. but the question now really isn't what's happened before. the question is what happens now. because the consequences of a no vote are very, very serious. and, you know, nobody -- i was with the president in 2002 when he was a state senator running for the united states senate and made a very, very penetrating, speech about why we shouldn't go to war in iraq and he talked about not getting involved in wars of unintended costs, length and consequences. nobody is more sensitive to these issues than he is and

that's why when secretary kerry says we're going to sir comdescribe this, he is he is reflecting the president's thinking. >> al, do you think john kerry may be overselling it a bit? >> i don't know if he's overselling it. i think that clearly they know there are a lot of people that have questions about a military strike, including me, that need that assurance -- >> what do you mean? what assurance do you need? >> i mean -- >> from the president? >> you always talk -- people like me are always against military strikes. i'm against war, period. but i also lived in new york during 9/11. so if you're hearing about chemical warfare, hearing about there's orders to bomb embassies in iraq, then you say, well wait a minute. are we not obligated to make sure that we couldn't put americans through certain danger. kerry is trying to address those fears for people that would never support a strike. >> yeah. >> actually -- >> i think what is reassuring is the conversation that members of

congress are having with their constituents, the president is slowly making the case and letting the american people speak out as well. because for the tens of thousands of americans who have family members who have served or lost or maimed in war over the past decade and a half, i think they deserve a platform, they deserve to be heard, whether we act or not. >> you know, i think -- >> reassuring they were heard. >> i think one thing, everyone needs to realize is, that, you know, the intention i think is and should be a punitive strike. intentions often don't survive the first contact of war. and that's one of the things that a lot of people are worried about. but it's just a fact. and i think in that sense, kerry may be overselling the certainty that, you know, it ends the first day or ends the second day or whatever. i mean we don't know. >> i think we also said a couple years ago when everybody was

calling everybody a nazi, can we put that word away. can we stop comparing people to hitler and also stop bringing up munich. you know, it's munich, 1938, i mean, my god, you know, it's -- i think -- i do think he's overselling it and again, that comes from a guy that right now, i'm deeply torn about it, but i'm really concerned the message that like david axelrod said, i'm really concerned about the message that a no vote sends to the world and us backing away if

we had struck without this, some people call dithering, conversations, drawn out really kind of analysis of this, if we had struck what would be the conversation -- >> mika -- >> around this table. >> mika, the president should not have -- the sequencing of this has been a nightmare. i know -- listen, let's have the conversation. but don't have the conversation after you send the secretary of state out, that did speak in such a way last friday that david cameron was running to his people saying, i think a strike is imminent we're going to war and the next day he appears to

be undercut. again, i agree with david here and i don't -- i think we're at a point where the general consensus is the president has made missteps. what's important now is what happens moving forward like i said before, the last ten years are horrific and i am so glad america is war weary and a lot more cautious, but i'm more concerned about what happens in iran the next three or four or five years and a nonresponse i believe seriously embolden the iranians. >> david, the white house has got a lot of news cycles between now and wednesday. what do you know about what the white house is thinking in terms of when the president will speak and sort of, again, based on your knowledge and experience, what else do you think will crede between now and wednesday as the white house manages a public operation and lobbying operation. >> i don't think he can speak until next tuesday or so. i don't expect that he'll speak

before that. he's going to want congress reassembled in town. there are certain logistical problems with speaking on monday night. so i expect it will come some time after that. but i think they will be mobilizing or should be mobilizing high powered surrogates on this issue because the impression right now is that there is nothing but opposition to this and i heard you guys talking about this earlier and that's not true. and there are thoughtful people who have the same feelings that joe and others have expressed around this table, who ultimately have landed on where the president has, which is that something has to be done. there has to be a response. the signal of not acting now would be disastrous for all the reasons that you guys have discussed. and so there needs to be more voices out there making that case. and so that i think will be

orchestrated between now and the beginning of next week. ultimately it seems to me that he has -- he has the biggest megaphone and he can lift this issue and explain it in a way that nobody else has the opportunity to do and he has to do that for this to be successful. >> let's go right now to st. petersburg, russia, nbc political correspondent and host of "the daily rundown," a 17 second delay, i would like you to talk about a couple things. talk about the -- he just smiled. i told a joke in august and he just smiled. let's talk about the remarkable events over there. unannounced dinner which is good, good to hear that happen, talk about where the president is regarding syria and him having to play catch-up when he gets home. >> all right. let me start with the dinner

last night. it went long. the president's goal was to try to rally as many of these world leaders to his side and he wants to get them there publicly. and all the reporting that came out of there you hear is that even those world leaders that were on the president's side, that believed there needs to be an international response, as one person close with another european leader said, there just wasn't a will in the room, even among those that believe the president's right about this, not just about the chemical weapons but the idea that you have to respond to syria's use of these chemical weapons and that lack of will -- to me it's remarkably similar to what you hear behind the scenes with members of congress. those, you know -- david brought up the idea there is no public support for this. the people that support it aren't comfortable saying it publicly and goes back to this issue of will. so their goal out of here was to

try to get a public international momentum. they're not going to get it. they're not going to get these extra layers of support behind france -- besides france, uk and turkey. what they had going into the g-20 is what they have coming out. so now they have to play catch-up. he canceled his monday trip to los angeles because they got to start working the phones. interestingly, david went public on the speech plans with what i've heard, because of football, sunday and monday are out. it seems to point to a tuesday night very dramatic moment where the president's got to rally the public and give political cover to these members of congress. but boy, this is tough. it looks like this public hand wringing that the president and the white house have done has not been very flattering to his leadership. >> no. it doesn't. chuck todd, thank you so much. we greatly appreciate it. looking forward to having you back. david, let me go to you. anybody that's been -- you read the president's club and talk to anybody that's been inside the white house like you, and

they'll tell you, being president of the united states is the loneliest job in the world. got a lot lonelier because there are liberals that agree with the president but they know they will be primaried if they vote with him and don't have the will. i know there are conservatives who are strong hawks who are pro israel, that agree with a strike, but they don't have the political willpower because they could get primaried from the right. and we hear these world leaders, chuck todd just reporting, they understand the president has to do what the president has to do, but on days like these, you would much rather be the president of belgium or luxembourg than the president of the united states because at the end of the day, they know they all get the benefit of any presidential action against syria, they just don't have to make it. and it's especially lonely for a guy who like you said, is president of the united states, in large part because of a war

he opposed in 2002. >> yeah. you know, you never want to say boy, that's a lousy job, because the president of the united states it's an exalted position, you get all these perks and so on, but there have been many days where i wonder, gee, i wonder if all of us who helped him get elected did him a favor. these are such difficult decisions. the thing i will tell you, joe, is my sense is that he believes in what he's saying. he believes deeply that we have to go ahead and do this, and he's doing it from the perspective of someone who has taken generally an anti-interventionist stance. he doesn't believe in projecting force everywhere. but he believes in this and he believes he was right in taking this to congress, that we needed to have the national debate on this and that we shouldn't have -- we shouldn't accept this creeping notion that a president can act at any time in any way that he wants without any

participation by the other branch of congress which has grown up over the years. he believes in what he's doing. now he has to sell it to the american people. and let me say one other thing on a different note because i would be remiss if i didn't, i want to welcome mark halperin back from the back woods where he was obviously writing a book and chopping wood. good to see him. >> grizzly halperin. >> deep, deep in the woods. >> thank you. >> down by the river. >> thank you. >> david knows about shaving experiences on "morning joe." >> first time ever used a razor. >> $25 and raise some money and -- >> let's do it. >> hall per rip's beard. >> a lucky day. >> will you donate money to the cure and your beard. >> everything i have including my beard for the cure. >> there you go, david axelrod. >> he wants -- >> okay. >> david axelrod, thank you very much. >> thank you, david. >> and reverend al -- >> good to be with you guys. >> big night, your two-hour

special "advancing the dream" live from the apollo theater, starts at 8:00 eastern, should be an amazing event. >> we're looking forward to it and want everyone to tune in tonight including david with the new beard. >> i think he will. no, you mean mark. >> mark. i'm saying david. >> david doesn't have a mustache anymore. >> david gave his away. mark is next. >> all right. still ahead, an exclusive interview with former governor and presidential candidate jon huntsman and he voted no on the syria resolution because he thinks military action will only make the situation worse. senator chris murphy joins us next. moderator of "meet the press" david gregory and former congresswoman jane harman. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. with the spark cash card

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multilateral coalition of partners. >> first of all public opinion is entirely against it. secondly public opinion is vee vehemently against it. >> we were promised this would be a limited targeted aerial strike. that is different than changing the momentum on the battlefield. >> we cannot initiate military action any time some nation, somewhere in the world, violates one of the u.n. conventions or some treaty somewhere. >> it doesn't feel good right now for this thing to pass. as you know, i support it and think it's the right thing to do. when the president speaks on this i don't see a level of real passion. >> it tough sell. 25 past the hour. here with us from capitol hill democratic senator from connecticut and member of the foreign relations committee senator chris murphy and in washington moderator of "meet the press" david gregory, on set

with mark halperin and eugene robinson, former democratic representative from california, director, president and ceo of the woodrow wilson international center for scholars jane harman. for the record, today, you agree with? >> joe scarborough. >> what? >> it's a first. today. all the comments he just made in the last segment about syria, i agree with. >> okay. let's start then with senator chris murphy who i would like to know, given everything that you've seen and heard, your no vote, the reasons behind it? >> yeah. listen, it's a close call and i totally understand where the president is here. it's hard to watch what happened in syria with 1400 people being killed, 400 children being gassed, stand by. my concern is two fold. one, i worry that a strike makes the situation on the ground worse in syria, not better. it's a chaotic situation to begin with, but if assad responds with even more ferocious strikes against his

own people or against our allies in the region it's hard to understand how that makes a situation better. second, i do think it's difficult to untie the united states from the situation now that resolution has passed. it not only authorizes the military strike but commits us to a long-term lethal arming of the rebels. and i just don't understand how this doesn't turn into a long-term civil war, even after assad falls, and just don't think the united states is pretty good at trying to pull the political strings within the middle east, something we should have learned over the last ten years. certainly a close call but in the end i worry this could degrade the situation on the ground and commit the united states to a commitment that could last a decade. >> this would be tough to unwind given the position the white house holds on this. having said that, these town halls and just as senator murphy stated, there are serious concerns. >> well, the reason is because what the president is trying to commit the united states to is a

policy to deter assad from using chemical weapons in the future. and to punish him for the use of chemical weapons up to now. that is a big engagement because you don't know what that deterrent value is. if he uses them again, then presumably the united states is committed to puppishing air strike -- punishing air strikes with maybe the french doing bombings as well, with, as the senator says, pumping aid in the form of lethal aid, weapons, to an opposition that we don't have a lot of confidence in. i think that's the fundamental predicament that for murphy and others, democrats, but also republicans who don't actually agree that the president or don't believe the president has a thought out strategy here, don't want to see the u.s. go down. my question for senator murphy, the president called you, you were on "meet the press" sunday, said you were skeptical, he called you, what is the case he's making to amount to that he's likely to widen out to the

broader public next week? >> well, part of the case he made to me was that this isn't going to escalate into a wider conflict, they will have checks in place to make sure that if assad strikes neighbors it isn't going to bring the united states into a much broader conflict and i understand that he believes that. i just think it's hard to understand how that would occur if, for instance, assad was to unleash another chemicals weapons attack we would have to respond. strike israel, yes, maybe israel has the stuff to respond on its own, but the united states would clearly have to be behind our allies, so the president clearly believes that this is not going to escalate into something wider but again, remember the senate added something to this resolution. the senate added for the first time congressional authorization for the arming of the rebels which includes elements of al qaeda. as i said in the committee, i think that frankly is going to make this even harder to pass as it moves through the process because now we're talking about a commitment both to air strikes

and to a long-term arming and alliance with the opposition groups. >> mika, you know if i may, i'm curious what jane thinks about this point, has the president not put himself in a position where he's got to strike, regardless of what congress says? secretary kerry is comparing assad to hitler. they're talking about, you know, a huge blow to american credibility if you don't do something in the face of the use of chemicals weapons. inside the white house how bad congress would look if the senate passes it and the house does not. and that wouldn't tie the president's hand. what do you think about that? >> i think the resolution is going to pass. i don't know whether the resolution passed reported out by the senate foreign relations committee will pass. but i think the full senate will round up enough votes to get through a filibuster and pass something and i think in the end, the house after a lot of angst and trading, will get to something too. i think they have to get somewhere. let me be clear. i voted for the iraq resolution.

i voted for it as a senior member then of the house intelligence committee after reading all the intelligence. i read the nie and i traveled around the world and the people who wrote that believed it. it was wrong and i was wrong. and we learned a lot of lessons and i helped reform the intelligence community structure in 2004. we passed major -- a major law to do that and created the director of national intelligence. segue to now, the intelligence now is solid. the case against ever using chemical weapons is a moral case. it moved 180 countries to sign the chemical weapons convention including russia. i think at this point despite a very messy process, that obviously has spooked a lot of people, we are in a good place and we're conducting an international civics lesson for the world on how a mature democracy works. say this, a lot of people no or leaning no right now, are trading votes and they're thinking they're trying to get permission to vote no but hoping this passes.

and so this will get to crunch time and i think it will change and i think it will pass and should pass. >> gene? >> one thing i think we ought to point out is the president's policy is already to arm the rebels. the good rebels as opposed to the bad rebels. so my question for senator murphy is, why is that a factor in your decision to be a no vote, since that's what the president says -- says we're already doing and going to do? >> well, it's a very different thing for the president to be doing on his own and for congress to endorse it and there are many of us, frankly, who have had a problem with that. the president, as has been reported in open sources, is largely doing that through covert means. this would give him the ability it to do it through overt means. and as his own generals have said, it's really hard to understand how the current opposition is ready to take over that country and as has been reported over and over again, al qaeda, the wing in syria, is the

most effective fighting force today and coordinating with the free syrian army. our worry is that by giving congressional authorization of this, it would step up that lethal aid and perhaps get some arms into the hands of the wrong people. listen, i think this is a close call. it's -- the president also made a case to me that once this international norm has been crossed who else but the united states can stand up today and try to step in and do something about it. but ultimately the combination of those two things in the resolution, even if the president is doing it already on his own just makes too big of an engagement for many people here. >> how syria comes out affects how iran comes out. let's understand at this point, if we fail to act on some reasonable basis, iran gets the signal that it's a free lunch. but second point is, vladimir putin, who is mixing it up with the g-9 team aside from russia, could change the dynamic here for some period, the u.s. policy was, a yemen-like outcome.

that means, russia could help bashar move aside and help to structure a transitional government and at least there would be a good enough outcome and change in syria. russia is not doing that and the press reports are that russia will replenish anything we take out and that's a tragedy and shame on russia. >> as complicated as it gets senator chris murphy, thank you very much. david gregory, thank you as well. who do you have on "meet the press" this sunday? >> among our guests dennis mcdonough, the white house chief of staff, on whether the president can get the votes. is he going to speaks to the country so the syria debate is our focus. >> all right. and jane harman, great to see you. right here in the studio. >> thank you as well. coming up as world leaders rub elbows at the g-20 in st. petersburg, russia, a reminder the host country is anything but a free society. nbc's keir simmons caught up with the family of the man who fled the country after painting this picture of vladimir putin.

waiting for it. there you go. keir joins us next with his story when "morning joe" comes right back. i don'without goingcisions to angie's list first. with angie's list, i know who to call, and i know the results will be fantastic! find out why more than two million members count on angie's list. angie's list -- reviews you can trust.

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the artist behind this painting depicting russian's president vladimir putin and prime minister dimitri medvedev in women's lingerie is seeking

asylum in france after his work was confiscated by russian officials. keir simmons joins us hive live on how the punishment is affecting the family. keir that. >> good morning. amid all the fwgeopolitics it's easy to forget president putin faces his own opposition amongst artists. we traveled a two hour flight out of moscow to where that g-20 meeting is taking place to meet the family of this ar tigs. they are taking a real risk by speaking out. it is the first time they've let the cameras in. in far away northern russia, a bizarre painting, mocking russia's powerful president, giving him a woman's body, has torn a family apart. this girl is 2 years old, her father, the painting's artist is

thousands of miles away from the family, her mother must hold herself together. >> i am afraid. afraid. >> you're scared? >> yes. >> they live in a small town, but her husband fled to paris a week ago. he fears if he returns, he will be arrested. police closed the art gallery. this week the director was detained overnight. >> it is hard for me because i am far from my family. >> reporter: elena showed us her husband's abandoned studio. >> this is a painting of you? >> yes. >> he loves you? >> yes. >> this is putin here? >> yes. >> constantine is one of many who have challenged putin's russia, but many support putten. >> mr. putin has provided the people with a sense of security because he keeps telling them that he saved them from the

chaos of the 1990s. >> reporter: elena and her daughter don't feel secure. we helped them connect via skype with constantine in paris. it's the first time she has seen her father since he hurriedly left. in paris, constantine wipes away tears. >> it's good to see him? >> of course. >> yeah. >> her family divided in a country where for some, freedom of speech is still a dream. >> reporter: we are expecting thousands on the streets of moscow today in support of a candidate for the moscow mayor opposed to putin so it would be wrong to suggest that opposition is tamped down on. you remember the rock band last year were jailed for two years for insulting people, so clearly there is still this tamp down has been going on particularly against artists has been going on the last year or so. >> keir simmons, live from

moscow, thank you very much. joining us now here on set, the host of pbs "news hour weekend." i got it. >> you did. >> premiers this weekend. that's fantastic. congratulations. >> thank you. >> i take it your topic will be syria. yes. >> what will you be looking at? >> really the developments throughout the week and also kind of what's happening possibly going into next week. this is a little bit, a show that will have the first half is the news you should know about today and then the second half is really news you should be thinking about. >> and given the situation in syria, i take it you will be taking a closer look at the situation in congress, but also the voices of the american people and the war weary country we live in? >> it's fascinating because we have obviously public media stations around the country and when you think about public radio as well as public television, there's a lot of people out there that express themselves through radio and tv and obviously now through the internet as well. we're going to try to figure out how to capture some of that.

>> we're talking obviously about syria, the case for and against air strikes. obviously it's the presidents a a lot of catching up to do when he gets back from st. petersburg. >> yeah, exactly. right now it seems like he's making the case to leadership around the world, but he's really got to make a bigger case not just to the congress but constituents that congress is responding to right now. >> yeah. so gene, we talked to david axelrod earlier who actually said, the white house wishes they had their week back. i mean -- >> basically what he said, yes. >> they would like to have the week back. >> yes. >> i think most of the president's supporters would wish that. >> well i -- >> what about the week forward some. >> it's got to be all about the president has to make the case and make the case forceful ly t the people, to the congress, but especially to the nation. >> and donny, what's the big

idea talking about the great donny deutsch show, what's the big idea here? give it to us in the sense what does the president have to say to the american people? >> tuesday night he has to get on and hit it out of the park and basically say we have a responsibility in the world and this is not just about the right moral imperative, this is the right thing to do to protect us as a nation. >> all right. >> all right. pbs "news hour weekend" premiers this saturday. harry, thank you so much. very nice to have you. >> great to meet you. very exciting. congratulations. >> thanks a lot. >> up next, lessons from detroit. how other american cities can avoid the same fate by turning back the clock. we'll explain that, ahead on "morning joe."

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our local news channels, i tonight know what it is. maybe because we don't really have weather, they don't know how to cover it. this is from cbs 2 here in l.a. whose weather coverage this morning earned tonight's award for excellence in reporting. >> to give you an idea how hot it is, we're almost at the century mark here. 10 pound block ofs ice and it is not standing a chance. we brought it out about 15 minutes ago and it is just melting. >> so hot, ice is melting. >> that's awful. boy. hey, coming up next, can other cities avoid the same fate as detroit? we've got national review's -- national journal's michael herb. he says always we have to do is think medieval. he'll explain that straight ahead. before mike could see his banking and investing accounts on one page...

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with us now from washington, chief correspondent from the national journal, michael hirsch. michael writes the latest cover story. the rise of city states. absolutely fascinating. the future will look more and more like city states that ruled the world for millennia, from the days of athens, sparta, carthage and rome. let's talk about it, michael.

absolutely fascinating. explain the concept. >> well, ironically enough, given this hyperlinked, you know, cyber age we're living in, we are going back to this old model. city states are, in our modern parlance, metro poll on it areas are what really work the best. countries don't work as well anymore. >> give us an example. >> well, we're all talking about the failure of detroit. not far away there's a metropolitan area, minneapolis st. paul, we've all heard of, with 5.1% unemployment, steady growth, and it's a real success story. it has a very diverse economy. in contrast to detroit which was associated with the auto industry. there's great cooperation between the twin cities, st. paul in minneapolis, and the surrounding areas. you have this marvelous success where right through the financial crisis they've had low unemployment. >> so let's look at detroit, the failures of detroit.

i mean, he was writing about this in "the reckoning" in 1981. was their biggest problem they were so insular and so dependent on one industry? >> yes, two big problems. complete lack of diversity. a reason we called it the motor city. and the entire educational system was built around autos. you didn't have a lot of college educated workers. when autos went down, everything went down with it. the other problem was there was this virtual wall between the city of detroit and the surrounding suburbs. there was no effort to create a larger metro hub which is absolutely successful to the success of cities. you had this situation, went from 80% white in 1950 to 80% african-american in the current time. and there was a real divide between the city and suburbs. you can't do that today. you have to have the city state concept where you have the hub surrounded --

>> by the way, what's so exciting is they've got that hub now downtown. it is more integrated. >> it's starting -- >> they're building the nucleus. it's exciting. much more integrated then it was. >> it's much more hopeful. i have a soft spot for that city. my question for michael, about the city suburb barrier. and how you go about breaking that down. because there are a lot of suburbs that would say -- you know, around decaying cities that say, we're doing well, why do we want those problems and more integration of our economies, of our schools, of everything else? >> yes, you certainly get that in some -- what you might call failed cities. but the fact is, most of the growth, 91% of the growth in this country, and this is a good news story. we're talking a lot about bad news in recent days.

detroit, syria. the good news story is the american economy. because it is largely a set of thriving metropolitan sub regions is actually by far the most advanced economy around the world. and you have a number of very successful areas that succeed because they do think regionally. the ones that don't succeed, like detroit, or some other inner city, you know, sort of basket cases, camden, new jersey, for example, is because they don't, there isn't that connection with the suburbs. the point of this article is to show the way forward for mayors. you have to think regionally. interestingly, the politics at that level works a lot better. you see many more examples of republicans and democrats, mayors, in cities and suburban areas working well together than at the national level. >> the national journal's michael hirsch, thank you very much. backlash in town halls across the country. as support slips for the president's military strikes on syria. we're going to talk to former

governor and presidential candidate jon huntsman. >> did you see john mccain just getting hammered from all sides over syria? >> it's an important conversation to have. >> he's standing firm. >> yes, he is. you work. and you want to get an mba. but going back to school is hard... because you work. now, capella university offers a revolutionary new way to get your degree. it's called flexpath and it's the most direct path,

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i feel confident what i'm doing is informed by my own

lessons of war, by my years of supporting military actions when they're important to the security of our nation. i believe this is important to the security of our country. iran will feel emboldened. iran, whom we are already in a major confrontation with over the potential that they may be developing a nuclear weapon. iran will read this and they could read it in the wrong way which could create an even more dangerous confrontation down the road. so chris, you know, i thought a lot about this. i know the lessons of war. i don't believe this is taking america to war. good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on set, we've got mark allen. >> the beard stays. >> no, it does. >> weem had this ongoing -- it's kind of like the war, you know, we're having a discussion about the war, we're having a discussion about mark halperin's beard. >> it's more like quest versus

quake. >> look how beautiful you are clean shaven. you're the cutest thing in the world, so friendly. >> i think right now the beard is winning. >> he looks like a new york mayoral candidate. >> i think we should take a poll actually. >> we also have -- >> donny deutsch, eugene robinson, "new york times" jeremy peters and david sanger. big show today. >> i've got to tell you, yesterday, you know, i was on the phone an awful lot. even before that, you started hearing people talking about america's response to this. >> yes. >> every senator, either congressman, every staffer on capitol hill, told me the same thing. you know, i see these things that say 20% of americans support the intervention and 80% oppose it. i'd like to find those 20%. because they're not there. i'm stunned, jean and -- i'm sure you've heard the same thing. >> yeah, yeah. i mean, it's pretty clear that there's not popular support for a strike. >> i mean, that's an

understatement. >> period. >> and they're not finding it. i think this is difficult. the white house says not to worry, nothing to worry about. i think they should be worried. >> there are people i know who would never think to call their congressman who called. that's anecdotal but it's interesting. >> you're hearing that. it's anecdotal, like i said. i was in pensacola for four days. long weekend. everybody kept coming up to me. congressman. what are we doing? they got to stay out. democrats and republicans. mark halperin, what makes this so difficult for anybody, the world now is boehner and cantor aren't really whipping it that hard. but the bigger problem is you've got both bases saying, if you vote for this, liberals and conservatives, if you vote for this, you're going to get primaried. i mean, i don't think i have seen a vote as unpopular with

both bases at the same time as this vote in some time. >> when there's hard votes, particularly in this age, when you need both republicans and democratic votes, a joint whip operation, the coverage is always, the president can't possibly win. yesterday, i thought he would. now i'm deeply skeptical. because time is not on the president's side right now. you've got members scattered around the country. they're doing their best to reach out to them. but beyond boehner and pelosi and eric cantor, all the momentum is against the president right now. the white house says -- "the washington post" pothis morning says the president will come home and make a national address. but right now public opinion and the member dynamics are all going against the white house. >> i'm not sure right now how to get time back on their side. >> the public against them. members of congress against them. and the u.s. military against them. a searing op-ed in "the washington post" from a retired general that we'll get to, but i

think there are two important editorials to read, plus anything gene writes. >> of course, every word. >> bill kristal who wrote an article. and this article. i'll read one line. the military is embarrassed to be associated with the president's attempts to craft a plan that makes sense. no experience with war, does not understand it. so far, violates either principle of war, including the element of surprise and having a clearly defined and attainable objective. it goes much deeper into that. i read basically the punch line. i think every american should read this and read bill kristal's op-ed in support of the war. >> as wayward as it's been,

donny deutsch, making the case certainly hasn't happened, which could really make a big difference. >> i'll make the case and i'm one of the 20%. >> there you go. >> i'm surprised it's only 20%. >> by the way, i am too. >> there's a lot -- >> i think one of the reasons you say to the average person, should we go to war with syria? of course. if you reframe the question, should we do everything we can to protect our country and make sure the north koreas and the irans and either other fringe lunatic in the world knows we cannot be played with. >> kind of a long -- >> it was a long question. there is one fact that has proven through history, unanswered aggression breeds more aggression. kerry has put it perfectly. it's not war. it's a punishing strike. and for the use of gas against children. joe, we have a lot of fun, mr. liberal, i'm as far from liberal as possible. and i'm shocked that the country is not lining up -- >> i think the use of chemical weapons is such a big deal.

it's just so far beyond the pale that i think a punitive strike is in order. but, you know, the problem is you've got concrete versus conceptual. at least it's conceptual reasons to do it. the chemical weapons and also undermining the authority of the u.s. president, which is an important factor in the world. it has been an important factor in the world for decades. versus concrete, you know, starting another war in the middle east, which is the way people see it. and that's -- >> that's just a tough sell. >> nobody sold it as a war though. >> the problem here is the president hasn't sold it. the president -- come on, let's just look at this politically. i'm not looking at it as a republican or a conservative. the president has done -- the past week, his actions have been disastrous. through the sport of this war. it's why americans are at 20%. you send the secretary of state out.

you chop him off at the knees. then you say, we're going to go to congress and you say, i don't really need to go to congress. i can go to war anyway. the president having a press conference going, hey, this isn't about me, my credibility's not on the line. the president, if he wants, if he wants to push assad back, and there are a lot of people strategically thinks he does, he better come home and sell it. really quickly, i gave the con. let me give you what we're reading this morning on the pro side of this. the right vote by bill kristal. voting yes on the congressional resolution to use force against the assad regime has been made widely and well by thinkers. at the end, the case boils to this. as a policy matter, a yes vote may be problematic in all kinds of ways. a no vote would likely be disastrous for the nation in very clear ways. statementsmanship. requires choosing the

problematic other the disastr s disastrous. it is a terrible choice. i think a lot of americans are like me. very, very conflicted. and we're going to see what the president does. >> well, i think i know some americans who are not conflicted. >> well, i think that foreign policy leaders are conflicted over this. >> yes, yes. advocates like senator john mccain already dealing with blow back in their home districts. republicans and democrats alike faced angry voters in town halls this week with many constituents making it clear they do not want the u.s. to get involved. take a look. >> as a moral and just people, we should not be continuing to make war. we should be looking for peace. >> you really realize what you're getting -- what you're getting our country into. this is what i think of congress. they are a bunch of

marshmallows. >> you can do it by diplomacy and negotiation. not bombs, senator mccain! enough is enough! we do not want another engagement in the middle east! >> i would much rather use our taxpayers money to take care of our vets that are coming home. >> i don't think i need to be lectured to about veterans, okay? >> by the way, i understand the anger of everyone of those people. i really do. and that's the real problem. we're exhausted. after a decade of war. >> think of a family -- >> not only were we sent to a war in iraq under bogus pretenses, but -- >> but these are not bogus pretenses -- >> i know, let me finish, donny. we had to deal with that, right? and then we had to deal with the president, which we were all against, tripling the number of troops in afghanistan. when we knew when he was

tripling the number of troops in afghanistan it wasn't going to work. we are exhausted. i understand that. but i also understand, david sanger, that if you talk to the top foreign policy strategists a decade ago in the middle east and you said, okay, what are the two or three countries that are our strategic -- if not enemies, because dr. brzezinski doesn't like to call anybody an enemy -- let's just say our chief rivals -- >> our adversaries. >> really good word, why you write for "the new york times." it would be iran, it would be syria. it ends there. it would be iran. syria. it's interesting we go into kosovo. we go into bosnia. triple the number of troops in afghanistan. we go into iraq. under false pretenses. and then here we have syria using chemical weapons, killing over 100,000 people. at this point, when there may be

a justified reason to strishke, americans are just too exhausted. >> joe, i think the president has got three challenge, here. one is the communications, difficulties, that i think you've laid out. he's not made a case yet. the second one he's got is that he has embraced at least in concept the idea of a responsibility to protect. that the u.s. has a role, as do other members of the international community, to step in and keep a population from being terrorized by dictator. that was essentially the argument for the libya incursion two years ago. so far, no one is buying that. even in his own party. and then his third problem, i think, and this gets to a story we had in the paper this morning, is that at the very moment that congress wants to limit the role here, he recognizes that if he's going to be effective on the ground in syria, he needs to expand his

target set and do something that gets at what senator mccain has been talking about and some other conservatives, which is actually effect the regime itself. and that's the disconnect in this policy right now. which is it's a punishment. i think the president called it a shot across the bow when he was on pbs last week. the pentagon looks at this and they say, we don't do shots across the bow. when the u.s. military gets in, you have to get in indecisively. >> "the wall street journal" reports the u.s. has intercepted orders from iran to militants in iraq to attack the u.s. embassy in iraq and other american interests there. meanwhile, in an exclusive interview with msnbc's chris hayes, secretary kerry sought to convince americans that u.s. credibility would be damaged without a military response and that attacks would be briefed and without boots on the ground. >> a lot of americans, a lot of your listeners, a lot of people

in the country are sitting there saying, oh, my gosh, this is going to be iraq, this is going to be afghanistan, here we go again. i know this. i've heard it. and the answer is no, profoundly no. we're not remotely talking about getting america involved directly in between any of those forces. the president is not talking about assuming responsibility for syria's civil war. what the president is trying to do and what we believe is important to america's national security interests and to humanitarian interests and to the interests of israel and jordan and lebanon and all of our friends in the region is that you hold bashar al assad responsible for use of chemical weapons and that you degrade his ability to use them again and deter him from using them again. >> all right. >> so we're sitting here -- >> no. >> i want to say this. we're sitting here having this discussion and going, why are we

having this discussion? >> because this is a discussion we have before other engagements. >> okay, we're not talking about wars. we're talking about dropping missilings. we're talking about the element of surprise. and we're sitting here litigating this for a week. when the president should have done the strategic attacks if he was going to do it, and then talk about it after. >> no. >> this is the kind of discussion one would think you would have if you were contemplate ago war. >> but the reality is, boots on the ground cannot be -- you can't promise that won't happen. so you're going to drop bombs. >> you can't promise that, but, in fact, it didn't happen in kosovo. it didn't happen -- you know, we do know how to do this -- if you're going to drop bombs as a punitive strike, if the president has the authority -- if the president has the authority to do that, i always thought it was better to ask forgiveness than permission. >> exactly. it's called the element of surprise. instead of going like this --

>> don't you think -- >> hold on, hold on. i'm going to hit you. i'm going to hit you. hold on. >> i get that, school boy. >> john kerry talk about it forever. let's have the president talk about it forever. let's have a leak one day saying it's just going to be a shot across the bow. and a leak the next day going, well, it's just going to be a strike to punish. and then a leak the next day from the white house, well, actually, the president wants it to be strong enough so he's not mocked. >> coming up on "morning joe," could the u.s. economy finally be climbing out of its midseason slump? we'll have the monthly job numbers. and we'll explain why the fed will be watching them very closely. up next, former governor jon huntsman will join us live with the thoughts on the president's syria moves. first a check of the forecast. >> we've got some beautiful weather this weekend coming down. >> like top ten weekend. beautiful conditions. what's going to be interesting. like 11:27 in the east coast, we

get a rare sighting tonight. u.s. air force is going to be launching a rocket and it's going to have a satellite that's going to be observing the moon's atmosphere. this is the vicinity you'll have a chance to see it just above the horizon. in areas of maryland, delaware, eastern portions of virginia and the outer banks of north carolina, you actually can see a little bit of this launch and the rocket in the sky. it's going to be picture perfect clear skies in this region. quite an interesting sight. as far as bad weather, seattle got almost 2 inches of rain last night. there's really not a lot of bad weather across the map. it was very hot yesterday. 100 in texas. 97 in denver. heat's going to be there all weekend long through the middle of the country. so feeling definitely like midsummer from kansas city northward. we take you through your weekend forecast. i mentioned how gorgeous it's going to be. look at, 78 and sunny, new york city.

boston, 79. d.c., 82. low, low humidity for this type of year. even sunday looks good. about as good as a summer weekend that we've seen. it's really not summer, we're all back at school already, right. you're watching "morning joe." rockefeller plaza looking beautiful. nascar is ab.out excitement but tracking all the action and hearing everything from our marketing partners, the media and millions of fans on social media can be a challenge. that's why we partnered with

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and although there will

continue to be some disagreements and sources of tension, i'm confident they can be handled, and i want to reiterate the united states welcomes the continuing -- >> that was president obama meeting with the president of china at the g-20 summit. the president did not directly reference syria during his opening remarks. however, a white house spokesman says the issue of syria did come up at the end of their meeting. joining us now from washington, former u.s. ambassador to china and former governor of utah, jon huntsman. good to have you back on the show. >> it's great to have you with us. we've been talking an awful lot about military options. the pentagon, very upset. a lot of people in the pentagon upset at the way the president has basically allowed this to unravel. let's talk about the diplomatic side. if you're advising the president of the united states, and let's say joe manchin's 45-day delay

actually becomes, gives the president a little bit of space. what does he do diplomatically over 45 days to try to resolve this without military strikes? >> well, joe, i think you're on to something that's fundamentally critically important here. and that's, what is the diplomatic off ramp. we're talking about whether there should be an attack or not an attack. at some point, we have to talk about putting the pieces back together again and who those players will be that will ultimately be -- >> how do you put the pieces back together again? >> you have to have players who have leverage in the game. you need russia because of their increasing involvement in the region. and clearly the united states and some of our allies in the region. >> any hopes of iran? the iranians, obviously, i think they've been our number one adversary since 1979, 1980. at the same type, they helped us after 9/11 on intel.

it's hard to believe that an unstable syria with 100,000 dead and millions of refugees is in their best interest. >> we may have some overlapping interest here. they're going to have to be part of the process too. it's how you begin to corral some of these players, how you begin to put players on the table. somebody like joe manchin, who i think is a capable senator, putting together a plan with republicans and democrats that speak to a 45-day time line where syria would become a member of the chemical weapons convention. let's face the facts here. the president will likely lose in congress. and then what do we do? his hands are going to be tied at that point. he should hope there is a diplomatic offramp offered up in congress that will allow us to offer forward with a better articulation to the american people about what this looks like in the end. >> you think joe manchin's plan provides that off ramp?

>> i think it's the beginning of a conversation that is going to be critically important, not only for the american people to better understand about where this goes in the end, but also it's to serve some sort of compromise in congress. the president's going to need something. it's not just a simple yes or no. if he gets a thumbs down in congress, he's in a really bad situation. and, joe, you've been talking about this earlier. my biggest concern, having worked overseas and lived overseas and as someone who had to rely upon the good will and word of the united states for what i did for a living, our credibility is on the line here. so if you want to look back in time and analyze everything through the prism of iraq, the answer's going to be no. we don't want to go anywhere near. but if you take the time to look forward, and you look at the iran dimension, having enough fissile material ultimately to change the balance of the middle east.

let me throw one other thing on the table having spent months in asia this summer. north korea is working towards miniaturizing their very crude nuclear arsenal with delivery systems that could completely up-end northeast asia. the talk among security types was, is the united states ready to recognize a red line in northeast asia? otherwise, we're going to consider going nuclear. what happens then? japan follows suit. and an arms race in the region. this i think is a healthy conversation to have. >> i'd like to talk about the conversation the country is having. this is obviously a war weary nation. given that mind set, governor, isn't it important -- everyone's saying this has been such a bad week and the president is dithering. having -- i'm not so sure about that. i think it's important to hear all sides of this. and ultimately whether the president acts alone, people will have a greater

understanding as to why, will they not? >> mika, you bring up a pretty good point. this is sometimes an ugly process we subject ourselves to. it looks like we're in fumble formation. it looks like there will never be an end point. let's face the facts, we're a big deliberative society. we chew on these issues. we talk about them. we weigh them very carefully. my respect goes out to every member of congress, both sides of the aisle, who have a very tough call to make here. the toughest call in congress. other countries are watching this play out. a whole lot of them are saying i wish we could do that. i wish we could have those kinds of discussions in our country and arrive at an end point that really did represent the aspirations and goals of our people. we see it a little differently. it appears ugly and unorganized and uncertain. but i think this is an extension, mika, of who we are as american people. >> we've got a lot to get to. it's lightning round time.

eju egene robinson. >> i think the governor has a case to make here. there's really a case here that he has on his side for a punitive strike. is that case adequately being made? do you think that argument is adequately being presented this week? it seems like the other side has the momentum. >> well, when i left this morning, my much better half, mary kay, turned to me and said, i just don't know what to think. i heard from my in-laws last night the same thing, i don't know what to think. i think the president has got to strengthen his case and he's got to make the pitch to congress in ways that are a lot more personal and more engaged and that hasn't happened. >> donny deutsch. >> governor, great to see you. your speechwriter tuesday night, he's got to say three thing because i think he has to win the nation over before he wins congress other. what does he say? >> i would say american values matter. we remain the only leader in the toward today. what we say should be our word and our bond. and we are still the remaining

superpower in the world. >> all right. mark halperin. >> governor, two quick questions. do you think american policy should be that the president continue to enunciate that assad must go? number two, what is your biggest worry about what happens in the aftermath if there are american air strikings? >> i think we're seeing this play out in syria as we did in tunisia and egypt because we've had long-standing dictators and we have economies that have not produced opportunity for their people. we're not going to get resolution in syria until the one country that's been in control since 1971 goes and enough uplift where you can begin to address the pockets of despair. i think that will be necessary as an end point. >> former governor jon huntsman, always good to see you. >> great being with you all. >> if we don't go into syria, we're going off brand as a country. that's what he basically says. >> governor, don't worry, we're not going to let donny deutsch

rip your words from the context. >> thank you. next, the all important job numbers in just a minute. cnbc's kelly evans is going to tell us how the number impacts the economy and your money and why the fed is watching. ready to run your lines? okay, who helps you focus on your recovery? yo, yo, yo. aflac. wow. [ under his breath ] that was horrible. pays you cash when you're sick or hurt? [ japanese accent ] aflac. love it. [ under his breath ] hate it. helps you focus on getting back to normal? [ as a southern belle ] aflac. [ as a cowboy ] aflac. [ sassily ] aflac. uh huh. [ under his breath ] i am so fired. you're on in 5, duck. [ male announcer ] when you're sick or hurt, aflac pays you cash.

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talk to us today.

welcome back to "morning joe." time for business before the bell with cnbc's kelly evans.

>> this is a disappointment. it came in that we added 169,000 jobs for the month. that compares after some of the stronger labor force data we had earlier this week that expectations were actually in about the 200,000 range. some were even saying a 300,000 number. so disappointment. but in the weird way wall street work, the unemployment rate fell. frankly, that was partly because people dropped out of the labor force. we've seen this trend. that means with the market, stocks are getting a little bit of a bid here in the future. treasury market as well, people are flocking to that safety because now the expectation is now the federal reserve won't be so quick to exit. big downward revisions to july. that showed the u.s. added just over 100,000 jobs per month. a bit at odds awith some of the indicators. it continues to be the main gauge everyone focuses on. >> what would be the takeaway if you have to put it all together?

do you have the number on the participation rate? a lot of people want to know how reliable that is. >> the labor force petitionayr ticked down. fewer people participating in the labor force. fell to 63.2%. i'm going to get that's close to historic low. you have the unemployment rate falling but there's fewer people looking for work. what we'd rather see is the u.s. added say 300,000 jobs last month. even if that meant the unemployment rate was steady or ticked up, because at least you had composition of the labor force looking better. not this narrowly distributed gain. >> we greatly appreciate it. not great news. this economy just keeps -- we've got so many numbers. 3.3%. 169,000. we've got of course a per that's passion rate going down. that's a near record low. we've got the polls on syria.

most importantly, we've got the shave or save. >> well, there's that. >> and msnbc. >> we've got to go shave. >> did you -- it looks a little thinner than yesterday. >> i don't think there's -- >> i think he thinned it out overnight. >> look at it on screen. >> totally inappropriate. >> we're going to get the numbers there. coming up. wait, we have them right there. 54% say shave. >> what about breaking it down on gender lines? >> let's get the internals on that poll. >> 45% say save. give be the hatred on the web, that's a big win. >> 80% of rabbis are in favor of not shaving. >> up next, pope francis appeals to world leaders to abandon the pursuit of a military solution in syria. as our war weary nation debates another armed conflict.

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this evening is the first night of the jewish high holidays rosh hashana. for our jewish friends, it's a time of joy and celebration, to give thanks and to look ahead to the coming year. to all our jewish friends here in sweden, in the united states, around the world, especially in israel, i want to wish you and your families a sweet and happy new year. >> that was president obama in sweden earlier in the week. welcoming in rosh hashana. the jewish new year.

joining us for faith on fridays, rabbi matthew gewirtz. and bishop mark beckwith. it's great to have you both on the show. >> explain to us the importance of this time of year for the jewish faith. for those who don't know. >> this is the most sacred time of the year for us. the ten days of repettance. the times we try to reconcile relationships with ourselves, with people and with god. >> and what's the basis for it, the script wall basis? >> comes right from the book of genesis. we celebrate the creation of the world. we celebrate the creation of humanity. we celebrate even the creative instin instinct. we think god created this world from a creative place. we're made in god's image. also that instinct in us. in fact, they say the last thing

god created was the divine light. the council of angels says, human beings willer er inever y idea what to do with this light. god says, hide it, put it up into the top of the sky. angels say, human beings will get there, they'll run it. let's hide it in the bottom of the ocean. so some angel in the back saying, choose me, choose me, i have the answer. she said, take a piece of light and put it inside every human being because i promise you they'll never, ever think to look there. so really the secret of the holiday is to remember the blocks, to remove the walls we create as human beings and get back to that original core, that original purpose, and we can find it. >> how sad that during this religious time we're talking about, once again, the possibility of war overseas. >> sure. coming back to what rabbi matt said, about rosh hashana.

a hebrew word "repair the world." that is something we all need to take hold of. what it draws me to is the world religio, latin word which is the root of the word "religion." my favorite definition for it is that which connects us, which binds us to one another. we live in a world where we tend to walk off into our separate categories, but religion enables us to be bound together. to be connected to one another. that we are one another's neighbor. and so this is something i think we can all live into. >> what is the role of religion? each in this debate? we have this letter to russian president vladimir putin from pope francis which says to the leaders present, to each and every one, i make a heartfelt appeal for them to help find ways to overcome the conflicting positions and to lay aside the futile pursuit of a military solution. >> i think the role religion can play here is to reframe the conversation, which is what the

pope is trying to do, is to put into a moral context, into a broader context, than just the geopolitical issues, which are incredibly complex. how are we bound together? how can we continue to live in a human family in the midst of all of this turmoil, chaos and degradation? and martin luther king did that beautifully as we remembered the march on washington last week, 50 years ago, when he married together the images of the bible and the current situation of civil rights and what he did is he was able to draw a connection between the lives of people who are oppressed, people of color, and those who were privileged. he was able to bind that in a way that created a vision for all of us to live into. and the changes that happened as a result were remarkable. >> to both of you, quickly. no religion celebrates war, but in every religion, there is the

concept of a just war. >> yes. >> and so how do you know when war is just? bishop? and rabbi? >> this is as complicated as could be. i think what's important to know is when you get into a war, when you pull a trigger that you are taking something away that you have yourself, which is a soul and which is a heart. and somehow you cannot see the other is self, then you can't even get into a conversation of what a just war is. to me, those words don't go together. i don't get up on the pulpit and talk about just war. i talk about the last possible place you need to go to is war. and sometimes we know that is something we have to do. but we get up and we pray for american soldiers dying for well over a decade now. as a jew, i pray for my brothers and sisters in israel. i know every year around this time we have to fret again for their survival. their survival is my survival. >> bishop? >> i think of two axis that i

think are important to be brought in the conversation here. one axis is right/wrong. the other axis is good s/bad. in the wake of the chemical attack, i think the whole world can say this is wrong and it was bad. it caws for some response. but every response that is being considered has no purity to it. that there is something that is problematic. and what -- i think we need to do is to see those four pieces, good, bad, right, wrong, in the mix here. it's very, very complex. what we are able to do, what we've been able to do in northern new jersey and the inner faith component of our work, and normally we have an imam with us, dean sharif, he is not able to be with us today, but we are connected to one another across these religious lines. the more we are connected, the

the more we are able to see a vision of harmony and being bound and connected to one another. >> all right, rabbi matt and bishop mark beckwith, thank you so much. >> great to see you. >> a red sox fan. >> yes. >> big win last night. >> big one last night. >> and a paul fan. someone who is freakishly obsessed with paul's music as me. >> a religious experience. >> up next, it doesn't seem like they're going to be hanging out anytime soon. best of late night next. and later, the "morning joe" week in review. what if we took all this produce from walmart and secretly served it up at this produce stand in the heart of grape country? it's a fresh-over! come taste some grapes - tell us what you think. these guys have an amazing sweetness. yeah they do. probably the best grapes i've ever had. a thousand thumbs up. walmart works directly with growers to get you the best quality produce they've ever had. all this produce is from walmart.

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these debates are about letting your personality shine through. >> do you have a housekeeper? >> sometimes. >> miss quinn? >> once a week. >> once a week, and then i clean up after her when she's done. >> there's that charm that bordered on the edge of [ bleep ]. the campaign was originally designed as a humble bid for forgiveness. now it's somewhat noticeably curved a bit to the right.

away from that premise. >> i don't have any anger. you do, grandpa. >> is it a hunger for the big job, the power? >> hard to take you seriously. hunger for the big job. i just have a feeling i've stepped into a monty python bit. >> the annual parade gets under way. >> boom, boom, boom, boom. anybody here from jamaica? >> banana, am i right? cool runnings, huh? seriously, you people sound ridiculous, vote for me. >> my god. it's good to have jon stewart back, isn't it? wow. >> hard to comment. >> coming up next, the "morning joe" weekend review and what, if anything, did we learn today.

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>> chuck is live from sweden. we're not sure why he's in sweden, but he's kind of like waldo. >> it feels like you've shifted over the last weeks or months. >> no, i haven't shifted, the situation has shifted. >> steve, what do you have to say to yourself? you're taking his words from the context. >> he said he didn't change his mind, the facts changed. >> they did. >> associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst -- >> i've always wanted a pulitzer prize. >> you'll say, here's what we've got to do, because i'm smarter, and i'm telling you, why should i help you? it's called debate. we're allowed. we argue. >> we sip tea and have crumbpets here. >> i'm a target marker. >> you are a limousine liberal. >> your liberal friends are making you soft. >> you are a liberal.

>> you share something in common with mika brbrzezinski. >> i was 39 when i was fired from television. they fired me by phone. by answer phone actually. >> that's so awful. >> t.j., can you check your answering machine this weekend? >> you never check your voice mail. >> how long has he been gone? >> well, long enough to grow this. >> he looks like harrison ford's character in "the fugitive." dr. richard kimball. >> the first thing he said to me, russell brand. >> you had the hair of princess diana, i saw this show becoming iconic all over the world. >> and they all come out individually. resembled a scene out of "the bachelor." i don't know that he's handed them a rose yet and kissed them on the cheek but who knows. >> i finally got some help. i was wondering.

>> utter chaos. >> utter chaos on set of "morning joe." >> i agree. >> what i learned this week, mika is iconic because of the russell brand -- >> that's the first time i heard that. >> chris christie, happy birthday. >> happy birthday. >> 51 today. very proud of it. >> what did you learn today, mark halperin? >> i learned david axelrod thinks the president might speak tuesday night to the nation. >> oh, really. look at these poll numbers. 54.6% of americans think you should save the beard. >> mika, should i save this weekend? >> oh, my. >> brian. >> i don't know what it says either about the rest of the news or syria but the number one story of the week was syria. the number two story seemed to be the beard. >> that's something really disturbing. i learned that syria's really even more complicated than i thought. >> we get another week of this

at least. the president comes back. congress comes back. this debate i think has just begun. >> watch the interview with bishop beckwith on this show online because i think he really crystalizes the decision the president has to make possibly alone. >> if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." stick around. is chuck -- are we going to chuck? no, it's luke! we've got luke russert straight ahead. chuck's show. breaking news, the new jobs report shows the unemployment rate falling again. and the jobs numbers falling short of expectations. but the real tough news may be in the latest round of revisions for older numbers. we'll break it all down in minutes. also this morning, president obama lowraps up two days of intense talk over syria with other world leaders in russia. his effort to convince congress didn't slow down one bit