but tracking all the action and hearing everything from our marketing partners, the media and millions of fans on social media can be a challenge. that's why we partnered with hp to build the new nascar fan and media engagement center. hp's technology helps us turn millions of tweets, posts and stories into real-time business insights that help nascar win with our fans. good afternoon. it's friday, september 6th. and he's made his pitch abroad and now the president returns home to sell his serious strategy to the nation. >> brazen use of chemical weapons isn't just a syrian tragedy. it's a threat to global peace and security. >> 1400 people were gassed.

over 400 of them were children. these weapons were banned for a reason. why isn't is the united states doing something about this? the conversation i had with president putin was a candid we need to move forward together even if the u.s. and other countries disagree. >> if the full congress doesn't pass this, will you go ahead with a strike? >> i knew this was going to be a heavy lift. >> if congress fails to authorize this, will you go forward? >> i'm not going to engage in parlor games now about whether or not it's going to pass. i was elected to end wars. not start them. ♪ ♪ such an old fashioned >> and high stakes g-2079 summit in russia. the president is on his way backing to washington to face a war weary public and a reluctant congress in its effort to win

support for military action against syria. on the long flight, the president will have a chance to review his argument for why the use of chemical weapons in syria requires a military response. and it's a case he rehearsed at a press conference today in st. petersburg. >> over 1400 people were gassed. over 400 of them were children. i've spent the last 4 1/2 years doing everything i can to reduce our reliance on military power. but what i also know is that there are times where we have to make hard choices if we're going to stand up for the things that we care about. >> and acknowledging deep divisions over the issue, the president said he'll make a direct appeal to the public on tuesday. and he said he knows full well that iraq and more than a decade of war in the middle east are overshadowing the debate.

>> where you will see resistance is people being worried about a slippery slope and how effective a limited action might be. we can have a response that is limited, that is proportional, that when i say limited, it's both in time and in scope, but that is meaningful. and that degrades assad's capacity to deliver chemical weapons. >> this sunday, the president will rely on the persuasive powers of his number two, with vice president joe biden to host a dinner with republican senators invitees include among others, kelly ayotte, saxby chambliss, susan collins is, john mccain and, of course, lindsey graham. the administration is working the global angle too in answer to those calling for celebrator international support, the white house released a statement reading in part, the world cannot wait for endless failed

processes that pk only lead to increased suffering in syria and regional instability. the beat support efforts undertaken by the united states and other countries to reinforce the prohibition on the use of chemical weapons, but with the british parliament voting against military action and the u.n. security council paralyzed by russia, the president acknowledged the weight of any response could well fall squarely on the united states. >> there are going to be times though where, as is true here, the international community is stuck. it's tough because people do look to the united states and the question for the american people is, is that responsibility they're willing to bear? >> and that, mr. president, is the question innen deed. msnbc political analyst joan walsh of salon.com and contributor professor james peterson. joan, former secretary of state

madeleine albright has just released a letter. she says assad has gamble he can get away with slaughtering his own people. that is a gamble he cannot be allowed to win. that is the president's argument. >> that's right. >> can he win that discussion in congress. >> i think it's going to be a very, very tough sell for him. martin, i'm concerned about it. i at this point, i'm not convinced about the need for military action, and i'm very concerned about the role of secretary of state john kerry who i don't think has been helping the president make this case. i think he's been kind of all over the map. no one has been able to describe exactly how you have some kind of strike that degrades assad's capacitors deliver chemical weapons. john kerry has sounded awfully and gin with our need to help the rebels to believe they are not the bad guys, that there are

lots of moderate -- >> he said about 15 to 25% are probably extreme. the vast majority are good upright people who want a secure safe syria. >> the influence of the people the who are the bad guys is much more powerful than i think he's saying. reuters had a great piece last laying out the problems with kerry's arguments and he and john mccain both used the work of a "wall street journal" op-ed written by somebody who actually works for an organization that is dedicated to the syrian rebels winning. socy think he's putting his thuv on the scales and therefore, on behalf of the rebels in some of this public statements and therefore, it's very hard for the american people to get comfort with there is a path that actually degrades the chemical weapons capacity that does not lead us into civil war. no one has convinced me of that. >> professor peterson, joan there referencing is the present

situation but iraq, the past, hangs like a cloud. >> absolutely. >> there is what is secretary of state john kerry said in response to our colleague chris hayes. listen to this. >> it is not iraq. it is not afghanistan. it is not even libya. there will be no american boots on the ground. we are not sliding through a backdoor into a war. we're not going to war we're taking a limited military action to enforce a very important principle. >> do you believe him? >> i believe him, but that's not the only issue. iraq looms over this because of a couple of important things we need to note here. the use of white phosphor russ, the use of depleted uranium in the gulf war. does the united states have the moral standing to draw a red line in the use of chemical weapons? i don't think we do without acknowledging that, it's hard to move forward. there are a range of issues for us to consider. if we want to make an intervention because we're looking at the 2 million regulars, look around the world. how do we make determinations

who we're going to help and not going to help? why aren't we helping the sudan and giving more aid in other areas in the world where there's crisises? it's not just the issue of boots on the ground. it's about what is our moral high ground as a nation to make these kinds of interventions. what's the calculus? how do we decide who we're going to help and not help? people are suffering all over the world. >> joan, you say in your column you say john kerry is blowing it on syria. those are your words. how else do we stop a man who has murdered over 100,000 of his own citizens, who has driven 2 million of his own citizens out of the nation, who has displaced 4 million of his people and has gassed 1400 of them, 400 of whom are children? what else do we do? >> it's very tough. i don't have the an answer. >> we do nothing? >> i'm not sure we do nothing, no. we've got a problem with the u.n. security council, obviously. but we could work with the general assembly. i think the president and

secretary of state really ought to be working harder with world opinion. >> absolutely. >> this is an international norm. >> you say he should be working -- hang on a second, professor peterson. he's just been at the g-20, he met david cameron, the prime minister of britain and met with the president of france. he's negotiated and tried to engage them. we've had this letter from them. what else can he do? >> it would be great to try to implement any dined kind of arms embargo. we have to double down on humanitarian effort. we have to stand up and give the refugees asylum. >> that doesn't stop him using chemical weapons. >> feature does attacking them either either. whatever we dplooet deplete or try to contain tan the chemical capacity, does not necessarily mean he'll not use the weapons in the future and then what? or maybe use them in response to us making that intervention. i don't see how a military intervention -- and the american people don't see how the you this helps this is situation. >> when i read your pieces

today, joan, it struck me your view is he's probably not going to win the support of congress. do you think the president will go ahead with an action against syria without the support of congress? >> no, i don't think he will. i have no inside information. i could be wrong but the sense i get from him, he decided to make this decision. he's coming to congress. he knew it would be a tough lift. i'm not going to rule out he gets the vote. next week when he makes the case, if he makes a better case than john kerry, there's going to be a lot of arm twisting and impassioned debate. he could win. if he doesn't, i don't see him going ahead. i wouldn't see that either as a sign of weakness. i would see it as a. >> it's a sign of strength. >> a sign of strength and a rational appraisal of the fact that americans actually borderline favor some kind of intervention if we do not go it alone. that's almost always true when it comes to public opinion. we are smart people.

we want to stand for something. we want to help assad's victims but don't want to do it alone. ity think if he doesn't get the support, i don't think he'll do it. i will not be prepared to sit around and have people say he's so weak. >> is the president humiliate bid this? >> i don't think so. i think this president doesn't want to go to war. he doesn't want to make this kind of military intervention. this was a way for him to hear the people, to make congress get to work. so i like this process. remember, we used to live in a nation where it was the process where the president went to the congress to get permission in order to have any acts of war initiated on the behalf of the united states. let's hope this is a sort of old new president that will stick. >> we do need a real bipartisan national debate about our post-9/1121st century security. this is the way in. it's going to be messy. >> joan and professor, thank you both for joining us today in new york.

coming up, no party favors on this one, mr. president. we'll ask a democratic congressman if he plans to vote with his conscience or with his constituents. ♪ ♪ unh ♪ ♪ hey! ♪ ♪ let's go! ♪ [ male announcer ] you can choose to blend in. ♪

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before leaving the g-20 summit in russia this morning, the president appeared to concede that the american public may not support his approach to syria. and he would therefore need to rely on the conscience of congress. >> it's conceivable that at the end of the day, i don't persuade a majority of the american people that it's the right thing to do. and then each member of cook res is going to having to decide if i think it's the right thing to do for america's national

security and the world's national security, then how do i vote. >> and joining us now is one of those members of the president hopes to persuade, gregory medication of new york good afternoon, sir. >> good being with you. >> you've receive add classified briefing this morning. you know that assad has murdered more than 100,000 syrians, gassed almost 1500. are you minded to support the president's plan for limited action against syria? >> i'm undecided. i'm going to give the president the opportunity to give me all the information that i need so that i can make the decision. >> so that classified briefing this morning was not persuasive for you? >> it is not conclusive. i have a difficulty in the the united states going alone. but the classified brief diagnose affirmed the fact that chemical weapons have been utilized and that to almost beyond a reasonable doubt that it was utilized by the assad regime. for me, i'm looking at

short-term and long-term the relationships that the united states has and since there was an international norm that was violated, shouldn't there be an international response to that violation? >> but sir, you yourself told the house foreign affairs hearing this weeking that assad's use of chemical weapons, and i'm quoting you sir, a flagrant violation of international norms. >> absolutely. >> if it is, as you say, flagrant violation, shouldn't there be some kind i have penalty for assad's behavior? >> i would say that there should be, but what that penalty is, and i think how you derive that penalty should be done in a multilateral way and not a unilateral way. you know, when we're talking about, this is an international crisis, not just a crises against the united states. it's a crises against the entire international community. so therefore, the international community should be involved collectively. i appreciate what the president

is doing while he was at the g-20 trying to talk and to convince nations they should join. i've seen several of the communications that some of the nations have come out in regards to saying exactly what i said, that it was a horrible act and something has to be done. they fall short though of saying whether or not it should be a military strike or not. i think that that dialogue as to what should be done should be done on a multilateral bases so after the first bomb is dropped, there's going to be things that happens after the fact that the entire international community is together and not people just saying it was the united states acting in a unilateral manner. >> i wonder if you'll allow me to focus on yourself personally for a moment because the congressional black caucus has been one of this president's most reliable sources of support. but it's also historically opposed wars from vietnam to iraq. is this a unique tension that

the congressional black caucus feels as members consider whether to support their president? >> well, i think that you can't put the congressional black caucus in a group like that because it's not monolithic. i can tell you about gregory meeks and my 15 years as a member of congress. i went through the same kind of study and the same kind of situation -- appreciation of what's taking place in the past when i first got elected in 1998, we had kosovo. president clinton was there. i looked at him not as a democrat or republican president, i looked him as the president of the united states and i had to make a decision whether or not i agreed with him or not. i went through top a number of different classified and declassified meetings and i made the decision and i inspired him. >> you did. >> when george bush was the president, i didn't look at him as a republican. i was opposed to him in iraq but i was with him in afghanistan. i was with president obama with libya. now i've got to make that same

kind of decision in regards to syria. i'm going to go through with the deliberative process to examine all of the issues and then make a determination how i vote. in answer to your question before you went on break, because i do believe ultimately i've got to vote with my conscience. >> i'm sure you you will, sir. congressman gregory meeks, thank you so much. sir. >> the people have spoke. en in today's "top lines." but first, dr. suess, j.k. rowling and beatrix potter, are you officially on notice. has it's ups and downs.

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the chemical attack, but not only that, that obama, the regime, may have been complicit in it. mounting evidence that the white house knew and possibly helped plan the syrian chemical weapon attack. >> yes, that's just the latest conspiracy theory from the mouthpiece of conservative media, mr. rush limbaugh. and if you have an appetite for bizarre scare mongering, seasoned with a dash of hatred and sexism, then you might be interested in mr. limbaugh's forthcoming magnum opus on the subject of american history because mr. limbaugh has apparently written a children's book which will be published just in time for the holiday season entitled "rush revere and the brave pilgrims." in a tale that may yet sivl cinderella, is he time fravls board his trusty steed liberty

back to the very moment when the may flower made its triumphant approach. and in an effort to attract female readers, especially those who is mr. limbaugh has previously referred to as is sluts and feministers, here's how he's making the sell. >> 24-year-old women afraid of me will be able to read this book to one of their kids some day when they have them without fear. >> mr. limbaugh, the inoffensive historian? now that really is a work of fiction. stay with us. the day's "top lines" are coming up. >> you really realize what you're getting our country into. this is what i think of congress. they are a bunch of marshmallows. >> enough is enough! we do not want another engagement in the middle east. okay ladies, whenever you're ready.

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from chemical weapons in syria to marshmallows in congress, here are today's top lines. just take a whiff. >> there's a lot of depressing news out there. chemical weapons in syria. >> senator, i assure you it is nothing. >> radiation in fukushima. >> can radiation levels are 1 times higher than previously thought. >> "breaking bad" is ending. >> even worse, i'm starting to think that hank and walt may not end up together. >> we're talking about people being killed by gas and you want to go talk about benghazi. >> absolutely. >> the benghazi irs, nsa scan l scandals. >> i'm 0 not going to sit here and be told by you. >> i think the administration has yet to the enunciate clear lit a broader strategy. >> decision, have you made your decision? >> i'm not ready to vote on a

resolution. >> i'm at thing you there's not. i'm telling you there's not, sir. >> attention. do i have your attention? >> first of all, i understand your skepticism. >> i knew this was going to be a heavy lift. >> i understand your concern about the united states of america getting involved in another conflict. >> you really realize what you're getting our -- what you're getting our country into? >> the way that we got involved in iraq. >> this is not iraq. >> telling the american people that saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. >> by the way, what are the odds that the weapons of mass destruction we didn't find actually made its way to syria. >> one whiff of this in the regular communication circuits, the game is up. >> enough is enough. we don't want another engagement in the middle east. >> it's clear that the american people are frustrated by iraq. >> this is what i think of congress. they are a bunch of marshmallows. >> you think this is abuse? >> fundamentalist islamist affiliated with al qaeda.

>> a lot of people in the country are sitting there and saying oh, my gosh, this is going to be iraq. here we go again. >> i know enough about warfare sir. >> i know this. i've heard it. >> here's the kicker. >> it's conceivable at the end of the day, i don't persuade a majority of the american people. >> let's get to our panel now. joining us contributor goldie taylor and karen finny, my colleague and the host of "disrupt" right here on msnbc. goldie, the american people seamless than excited to intervene in syria. there's really no mystery as to why, is there? it's very clear. >> well, i think there are a number of reasons for it. the first of which is we are quite aways away from september 11th and then we entered the war in iraq with where there were no weapons of mass destruction. there are people are concerned about the cal lamties unfolding within our own country and our own cities today. there are a number of reasons why the applicant get behind, it

seems, you know, an intervention in syria. that being said, you know, we denied to be isolationist when we're having problems was unemployment and poverty and homelessness and other things in our own country when unemployment rate i think today was good news at.3% burks it hasn't been this low in five years. people are very concerned about what's happening doe mostically. they simply can't get their arms around at very horrific things happening in syria and what it means when we say we have to draw a red line and back up the red line that the international community set so long ago. so we are a bit ice lacist internalists right now. >> karen, the president was talking earlier today about public opinion. this is what he had to say in st. petersburg. >> in our polling operations, they're pretty good. i tend to have a pretty good sense of what current popular

opinion is, and for the american people who have been through over a decade of war now with enormous sacrifice and blood and treasure, any hint of further military entanglements in the middle east are going to be viewed with suspicion. >> karen, the president says i have a pretty good sense of popular opinion. if that's true, why is he doing this? because we know the public opinion is well over 50% in opposition to this. >> absolutely. and you know, if you've listened to their messaging, they do seem to become a little bit more favorable when they've talked about limited air strikes from a ship and all of that. but even that's not really convincing people. what that tells me is, i have no doubt that the president is believes the intelligence and that the intelligence is solid. i think unlike iraq, that's not the point. i think the point here is, in addition to what goldie said about concerns here at home, i think we can all look at the

situation currently in syria, which is becoming proxy war with hezbollah and so many other factions coming into the country whereas you have syrians fleeing the country unfortunately, and one air strike does not sound to anyone like it will solve the problems. sending a signal, a slap on the hand to assad, okay, that's a step. but that doesn't move us in any kind of political or are diplomatic reconciliation. >> what are you suggesting? >> i'm opposed to the air strikes. i'd like to know more about what other options are there? have we pursued the other options? are there other ways we can force assad to a negotiating table? >> not without some kind of military intervention. >> do we know that for sure? i don't know we've heard that answer. have we heard that everything else has been tried, this is the last thing? i have not heard if we do air strikes, that's the thing to get us to the geneva process that secretary kerry was talking

about. >> some kind of negotiated settlement. >> that's right. >> goldie, we're used to seeing republicans leap at the chance to start a war. they're not doing that in this case. is it your view they are sincerely opposed to the mission or are they will simply opposed to anything that the man in the white house would choose? because as you know, even bill kristol has advised them against voting no simply to oppose this president. >> well, yes and no. you have to understand that when this -- it wasn't this congress actually. it wasn't this senate. very few of the people sitting today were sitting when we authorized iraq. and so you've got people who are voting for resolutions for the very first time, you know, of their tenure within the house or the senate. this is a different crop of republicans than were in office back then. we now have a tea party coalition and what i call the ted cruz caucus. they are a different breed of republicans not always ready to intervene overseas is, less hawkish and more isolationist.

people like rand and ron paul. people who are let's take care of home first and not intervene where they feel our national public interests and the at stake. there is also the brand of republican that would disagree with this president under every circumstance and they've shown that time and time again. so there are a couple of things that are feeding into the opposition by republicans now. but the same kinds of things are feeding into democrats and their opposition now. >> you two thoughts. even some of the republicans who support the president on the air strikes spend two-thirds of their time talking about, you know, all of the bad things that president obama has done before they even get to the that point. they will never pass up an opportunity to attack this president. >> karen, we talking about splits in the republican party. but this is also causing division within the democrats, isn't it? >> it absolutely is. there's a little bit more of a fascination on the republican

side because they're still learning how to be a big tent party whereas democrats, we've been a little raucous for a while. it is dividing the democratic party. people have very strong feelings. people do respect this president. i don't think there is questioning whether or not the intelligence is accurate. we all saw those horrible images of children and others of course, we've seen horrible images of hundreds of thousands of others being displaced and what have you. but it's what happens next. that's where i think they have not yet made the sale and people are just not wanting to get entangled into another middle eastern conflict. >> karen and goldie, thank you so much. a reminder, you can always catch karen on disrupt with karen finney" every friday and saturday at 4:00 p.m. right here on msnbc. thank you. coming up, a dream realized or a dream deferred? we'll dig into that straight ahead. but first, a preview of my colleague, the reverend al

sharpton's exclusive interview with condoleezza rice. >> you were always aware that you couldn't go to a movie theater. couldn't go to a restaurant. i've said sometimes very often that my parents couldn't take me to have a hamburger at the woolworth's lunch counter. they had me convinced i could be president of the united states if i wanted to be. [ male announcer ] i've seen incredible things.

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today's new jobs numbers show hadding that once again, the unemployment rate for african-americans is double that of whites at 13%. it the task is far from over. and yet, with an african-american president speaking last week from the same steps where dr. martin luther king delivered those inspiring words 50 years earlier, clearly, major strides have been made. >> they were seamstresses and steelwork steelworkers, students and teachers, maids and pullman porters. they shared simple meals and bunked together on floors. that's the debt that i and millions of americans owe those maids. those laborers. those porters. those secretaries. >> for more now, i'm joined by new yorker contributor jelani cobb. welcome. you wrote about that speech that the president gave and i'll read

what you wrote. he spoke of the debt that i and millions of americans owes, those the porters, secretaries folks who could have run a company maybe if they had a chance but he suggested no way to make good that debt. no responsibility on his part whether as a black man or as president to see it repaid in any other way than by simply acknowledging it. you are not saddling this president with a burden that he cannot carry? because you know that if he had overemphasized issues in relation to african-americans, he would never have been re-elected? >> i think here is the point. no one's saying he has to come out and give the malcolm x ballot of the bullet speech here. people are saying you've been very eloquent about this, you can't then turn around and say you have no specific skraend for this. we're not talking about racially

but a group of african-americans who constitute 25% of his electorate. this is plain traxal politics. people vote for you because they expect you to address their interests in some way, shape, or form. >> if he had been overem fa it the i can in addressing the needs of the 25%, would he not have the lost the election? >> i don't think we can monday morning quarterback that what would have happened. we're talking about whether he did this actually. >> do you not accept then that this president has at least attempted to fulfill some of dr. king's vision? i mean, he's attempted to ensure that all-americans have affordable health care. he's recommending pre-k education for everybody's chald child. he's attempting to raise the minimum wage, trying to protect the rights of all people in the workplace. are these not consistent with the dream, the vision dr. king offered? >> that those are great ideas.

we understand there's a segmented labor market even as we saw unemployment decline nationally, it ticked up one point for african-americans. it's not a question of is everything good for america automatically good for black america. it's the question is it as good for black america. since the problems we've seen among african-americans are a result of specific policies targeted at them, it's only reason reasonable that in order to redress those, we have to have a policy that specifically addressed that community. toing necessarily has to be a big racial pow-wow. one of the big blown opportunities the administration had was during the stimulus where they did not opt to the direct funding to the zip codes that had been hardest hit by the recession. and by the foreclosure crisis. i think that in and of itself would have addressed black and brown communities because we were hardest hit. >> the reverend al sharpton is host agevent tonight on msnbc

live called "advancing the dream." what areas in your view, should this administration be targeting to advance dr. king's dream? >> one of the things that i think the president pointed out and then kind of didn't come back to in the speech was he talked about the unemployment rate that was double the national average and has stubbornly i been so. the unemployment has never been below 10% since people very kept the statistics. the great depression, the white unemployment rate in this country hasn't been above it. those are things thanks has to actually be addressed. the other thing i think is really important is when we look at the central tool for building the middle class in the 20th century, it was the open access to home ownership. that was something african-americans were systematically locked out of because of red lining and other positions that went into effect during that time. i think that moving forward, what he does with the federal

housing finance agency. >> right. >> and how aggressively this he move in his remaining term, the remainder of his term will have some impact whether african-americans actually get to close the gap somewhat. >> jelani cobb, thank you for joining us today and for your written piece, as well. remember to join the reverend al and his special guests for "advancing the dream," live from the apollo tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern eight here on msnbc. coming up, the president and his administration prepare their final sell on syria, but will it work? stay with us. nascar is ab.out excitement but tracking all the action

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this is one of the harder decisions that i've made, have to make. i just cannot get this picture out of my mind of those children lying with the white sheets. do you go out and you try to

make sure that that doesn't happen again or do you make sure that you're not stirring up a hornet's nest by taking action? >> a pained congressman elijah cummings expressing the complexity of the decision they face with regard to syria. next week is likely to mark the making or the breaking of the president's request for authorization from members of congress for military strikes on that country. had the president himself will speak to the nation on tuesday. and while public opinion seems firmly opposed to military intervention, all eyes will be on congress with members returning from recess to consider the president's proposals. and one of those congressional members is representative peter welsh, a democrat from vermont. he joins us now. good afternoon, sir. >> good afternoon. >> mr. welsh, you've been to the syrian border yourself. you've witnessed the humanitarian catastrophe firsthand. 4 million syrians displaced.

100,000 have been killed. 2 million have fled the country. and almost 1500 have been gassed to death. do you accept the president's premise that if no action is taken against assad, this murderous regime will continue for the foreseeable future? >> you know, that's not clear. i really do agree with the president that if he could take effective action that would send a signal to deter assad from further action, we should do it. the question is, what representative cummings said. will the action actually make things worse. there's something to be said about congress being involved in this debate. whatever the outcome of the vote next week, you've got to believe assad is watching. the fact is, if congress did not approve this and i don't predict that's the outcome but if it didn't, i don't think congress would give assad a second chance if he went out and gassed his people once again.

>> okay. well, earlier this summer, you cosponsored a bill to prevent the arming of syrian rebels. now, upon reflection, that is what an error of judgment, given what has happened since then? and have you changed your mind now about arming the rebels? >> no. it the issue of the u.s. getting involved in the civil war is the real inhibitor for a lot of us on this question of whether we should have a military strike for the limited and proportionate purpose as the president says of deterring the future use of chemical weapons in violation of the international treaty. but you know, us getting involved in a civil war is a disaster. that's the real holdback for us. >> but sir, but congressman, would it not have assisted the rebels in providing support to prevent the kind of disastrous catastrophe that we're seeing? you opposed even arming the

rebels. >> not because i would be against arms but we can't identify which rebels will be the quote good rebels. the sunni rebels are very divided. we just saw in the "new york times" a horrific picture on the front page where some rebels were executing bullets in the back of the head some soldiers they had captured from the syrian army. there were earlier reports of rebel disputes with are one group of rebels literally beheaded the other. the issue in syria is very complicated because even the kurds repressed by assad are now supporting assad because the they fear if there is a radical sunni victory, there will be genocide and the christians would be subject to real harm as would be the alawites as would be the kurds. that's the complexity of the situation with respect to the civil war. and the idea we comicromanage an outcome i think is a wrong judgment. the separate question of whether we have to take some action as the president is proposing

because there's violation after you international norm, that's a separate and very legitimate question where there's a legitimate moral argument that we should or could do that if the cost can be done in a way that doesn't make the situation worse. >> so is it fair then to assume that you will support this authorization for a limited strike on syria? >> no. what i'm saying -- >> you do the not support the president on this? >> no, i'm not saying that. i'm listening. i asked the president to come to congress and he surprised a lot of us by agreeing to do that. now he's making his case. we're going to be back in washington on monday and getting the classified briefings and hearing from the president on tuesday night. this is a veriers issue. we've got due diligence. the president by coming to congress which i applaud him for requires that those of us in congress listen to the evidence and then come to an honest

conclusion, reach deep in our soul to decide what we should do because the reality is, if we say no to the president, they'll be unintended consequences. are there more kids like elijah cummings described? if we say yes to the president, will we can be dragged into civil war where there will be much more loss of life and much more instability? whatever we do, it's not going to be good. >> i can ask you a final question and if you could answer briefly, if congress does not support authorization for the use of force, do you think the president should do as the british prime minister has had to do and simply walk away from any kind of intervention? >> he should accept the decision of congress. he's agreed to come to congress. we represent the people and whatever the decision is of congress, he should definitely accept that decision. >> peter welch is, thank you so much for joining us this afternoon. we'll be right back. mom always got good nutrition to taste great.

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thanks so much for watching this afternoon. a reminder you can catch chris matthews and "hardball" at 7:00 p.m. right here on msnbc. coming up right now, "the ed show" with ed schultz. >> good evening, americans, and welcome to "the ed show" live from new york. let's get to work. not war. ♪ >> we at war. we're at war with terrorism. racism. most of all, we are at war with ourselves. >> i intend to address the american people from the white house on tuesday. >> on the eve of the 12th anniversary of 9/11. >> i was elected to end wars and not start them. i've spent the last 4 1/2 years doing everything i can to reduce our