surrounded. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening, i'm chris matthews in new york. let me open tonight with this. you know what it looks like when a team is on its own 1 yard line. you know, just a yard from being tackled in its own end zone. it would be generous to say that's where president obama now stands in his fight to win congressional approval on the attack on syria. telling a grimmer story. 240 are now listed as no or

leaning no on the resolution. that is not a good field position for the president. to win the fight next week, the president needs to not only convince the undecideds, but also those heading towards a vote against him. either that or already commits themselves to voting no against them. we will see whether a presidential address next tuesday will change members' positions. we'll see if nancy pelosi can pull together the votes she needs to get the yes vote. i don't expect the president or pelosi can expect much help from the republican rank and file. the problem is this country's divided right now between the usual hawks, many of whom unfortunately hate obama and the doves who hate war. that leaves the dangerously little middle. left and right. former msnbc david axelrod and howard fineman is director and

editor of the huffington post. and recently interviewed secretary of state john kerry. let me go through the statement, are you surprised the number overnight coming out from congress based on apparently individual polling and public statements has more than a majority against this proposition of bombing iran -- bombing syria. >> well, first of all, i think we should note, and you did, i think 100 or so say they are leaning that way which means they haven't made a final decision. but look, chris. this is a tough, tough issue. this is a country that's weary of war. i helped barack obama in 2008 become president. and aone of the reasons he was elected is because he had the foresight in 2002 to object to the war in iraq. and his observations were impressioned about that war. and now, we are living with the aftermath of that. and so i'm not surprised. and obviously, there's work to be done to make the case.

but this isn't iraq. it say very different kind of situation. and the cost of not acting now, it's just so high. >> let me go -- howard, it seems to be the problem, though, presents itself in the way i described it. a good half of this country is hawkish. but they don't like obama. in fact, many of them hate obama. the other half is dovish but they don't like war. so where are these people who are for brsk and want this active war to be committed because that seems to be a narrow middle and that seems to be the president's problem if there is say middle. >> well, it's interesting to see the dynamics, chris. during those interviews yesterday, the center was simple let tick to the president by and large. but the farther you got out to the wings of both parties as you went down the rows there, the more skeptical people became. and that's true in the country as a whole. and i interview secretary of

state kerry for huffington post. he's at ground zero while the president's away at the summit. john kerry, former senators having to deal with the fears and angst of democratic members who are coming to him and saying, assure me that we're not going to get into a quagmire here. my constituents don't want another quagmire. and kerry's whole message is, this is about chemical weapons, it's not about a civil war. but it's very hard to get that message through to skeptical democratic members. senators you house members who back in their districts in their state are being told 50 to 1 is that their own constituents don't want it. >> the problem is, you've got this whole mccain side car thrown on this whole resolution, howard. >> right. >> mccain drove a very hard bargain. he said not only do we have to attack them with a punitive raid using chemicals, we now

basically have to side to find good rebels with support. if you're asking members of congress not to get even, avenge or attack or punish them for using chemicals, we have to take sides in a civil war. howard, that's not an easy sale. >> no that's exactly right. i know i've talked to house members on the democratic side who cite that. what kerry says in anticipation of what the president is going to say next week, secretary kerry says, well, look, the congress is already on record to say they would like to see radio rah jeem change in syria. and we'd like to support the rebels with various kinds of material and noncombat ways. that's true. the problem is, if you take that language and stick it into a resolution that basically what it is to attack syria, that's what gets the grassroots upset. >> remember how henry kissinger

was a genius of going around, he'd go from the arab side to israeli side and whisper different things in their ears. in the old days before we had tape recordings and television you would get away with that. now we find him, smart as a whip, in the paper saying i just want the president to say out loud what he promised mccain and lindsey graham when he said he's going to back the rebels if he says it out loud he may lose leahy and the senate if he gets too hawkish here. >> actually, i don't know that's the case. i think howard's point is correct. the connection of the two, the notion there would be military action on baffle of the rebels that involved american hardware and american personnel. that's the thing that concerns people. you guys have identified -- >> are you for the side car thing of not just making sure we've kept the record strait on the principle of using chemical,

but this idea of getting heavily involved of picking out the good guys and arming them, are you for that? >> well, the side car on the resolution says less than that. it's changing the momentum. >> i read it all, david. it says all formers of aid to those groups. all forms of aid. it wasn't just tilting there. it was helping them. >> the reality is if we knock out some of these capacities of assad, then it will help. >> and it's been veriably brought doubt. if a vote on the syrian resolution would held today, 223 members of congress, that's far more than the 217 on either side to be the majority are now either against or already leaning that way. the number would kill the resolution, of course. only 25 members out of 435 are now in favor of the strikes. that's 25 members up front right now. it's the same story from a

similar story taken from abc news. the house represents against the resolution. that's enough to beat it. if you look at the polls it's hardly a surprise that the house is leaning towards a no vote. polls taken in the past week also show public air strikes in syria. a pew poll has it at 48% which is far greater than the percentage that supports the action. according to an nbc news poll, 8% higher than those supported. it's nearly 60%. a "washington post" poll. again, david, does this president have the pot tensecy to go on television next tuesday, i guess he's doing it from the oval office. i would recommend going from the chamber. he looks better there. he carries more weight, higher risk but more powerful, can he turn around this kind of polling? >> well, i don't know that he can turn the polling around completely, can he make a case that enough members of congress

will receive what they're shared responsibilities are in the face of this kind of blatant act that we've seen in syria. i think that's possible. i don't think it's just speech, although i've been a strong advocate for speech. i think it's absolutely necessary. >> should it go to the chamber? >> well, he's obviously made the decision not to. i think you made a very good point. >> stronger-e much stronger in the chamber. >> but it plainly -- it sounds like he's going to speak from the white house. i think that's where he's going to speak from. but i also think he has to mobilize other voices. as not just his voice. his voice is the most important. but he has to mobilize other voices. and they really need to focus on the consequences of inaction here. i think those are very profound. >> howard, just to make my point. help me out here, if you degree. is it more powerful for him to go into the lions, than stand there as head and chief, speak those people surrounding him? when you sit behind that desk, i'm not sure he or presidents

look that strong. i think reagan did. better shard to be overwhelmingly strong from sitting behind that desk. what do you think? >> well, chris, i think if the president's going to get this done, he doesn't have weeks or months to build public support in the country. he's got to cut right to the chase and go right to the members of congress. and i think basically shame them, attempt to shame them morally into action here. that's his strongest argument. >> does he show up -- is woody allen right, does he have to show up? >> well, according to that, if that's what he's got to do, to go to the chamber and look them in the eye -- show them the pictures from syria. and look them in the eye and say, look, the world has said this shall not happen. we've got to take action. we can't rely on others to do it. we are the united states. we've got to do it. and we can't let these types of weapons potentially loose in the region. i wouldn't stress that because as soon as you do that,

questions arise. and i know this from speaking to secretary kerry. questions arise about how you control those weapon fuss attack the systems about who the rebels are, who the opposition is, all that other stuff. skip all of that, just focus on the moral equation about using chemical weapons. that's his strongest argument. for that, he should make it directly to the members. >> thank you for the case for the merits of this. you did a great job. coming up, if you really want to know what the people think, go to a town hall meeting if you dare, like john mccain dared to do. >> this is what i think of congress. they are a bunch of marshmallows. that's what they are. that's what they've become. why are you not listening to the people and staying out of syria? it's not our fight. >> well that's the first i ever heard call john mccain a marshmallow to his face. anyway, members of congress are

taking this, they're hearing it loud and clear. a debate of whether we should get involved in syria. it's out there in the land right now. we're joined by republican members of congress and who opposed the strike. and a democrat for it. also boot in mouth disease again. it's hard to make jokes about syria. and the latest generation who lived for his family. this is "hardball." art a crowd, without saying a word... if you have yet to master the quiet sneeze... you stash tissues like a squirrel stashes nuts... well muddlers, muddle no more. try zyrtec®. it gives you powerful allergy relief. and zyrtec® is different than claritin® because zyrtec® starts working at hour one on the first day you take it. claritin® doesn't start working until hour three. zyrtec®. love the air.

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if you raise your hand if you're opposed to military strikes so i can get a sense. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was the republican from michigan speaking a few days ago at a town hall in his home state. the lack of support for

intervention in syria that you saw there is hard a little case for constituents across the country. yesterday, john mccain saw a flood of wrath from angry voters at a town hall who want something to do with syria. >> this is what i think of congress. they are a bunch of marshmallows. that's what they are. that's what they've become. why are you not listening to the people and staying out of syria? it's not our fight. >> you can do it by negotiating -- by diplomacy. and negotiation. not bombs, senator mccain. you need to listen to the majority of the american people who do want you to go there. this is not an issue that we can take so lightly, senator mccain. >> i would much rather use our taxpayers' money to take our vets coming home from the two conflicts we've already been in. >> i don't think i need to be lectured to about veterans,

okay? all right? >> even that didn't go over well. congressman rick crawford, by the way, republican from kansas said 99% of calls to his office were from calls for action in syria. mike fitzpatrick received 126 calls opposing engagement and only one call in favor. and the independent is saying unanimously people up there are saying do not get involved. brad sherman from california said i don't know a member in congress whose e-mails are in favor of this. we're joined by elijah cummings from maryland. hasn't voted out voting in favor of the syria resolution. and juan vargas from california coming out in favor of strikes. i want to start with mr. vargas. i haven't met you before, sir. where are you on this? more importantly >> reporter: your constituents to start with? >> my constituents generally are

not in favor of it. i think it's the rest of the country. but i certainly am, i'm in favor of this. the reason is, you've used these types of weapons, these weapons should never be used. the amount of children he's killed, grown-ups, we have to do something else. if the rest of the world doesn't want to come along with it, we have to do it ourselves. we can't allow this to stand. >> what about the rest of the resolution, the mccain jab, talking about arming rebels? >> we don't know who the good guys are and bad guys. they all look pretty bad to me. but the issue of the chemical weapons and gassing all these children. i mean, how high does the pile of children have to be before we're outraged and say we're going to do something about it. they killed hundreds of kids. they ought to do something about it. >> mr. cummings, where are you hearing, most importantly, what are you hearing from people in maryland? >> first of all, my

constituents, i'd say 95% of the people i've heard from are against it. chris, they have the backdrop of iraq. in other words, they know we went to war on inaccurate information. they know we spent hundreds of billions of dollars. they know most importantly, we've lost so many of our young people. many of them from my district and from maryland. and they feel -- they don't feel -- they don't sound as angry as they did at that mccain meeting. but i can tell you, i did a walk throughout my district yesterday with some nbc reporters, and to a person -- i mean, they were very thoughtful. every single person we approached was well informed on this issue. and every one of them said we don't want it. you know the other interesting thing, chris, i asked them, i said, remember, we voted 80% are four the president of the united states. they said, we love the president. we respect the president. but we just don't want to see us

going back in this area, going into syria. and i've got to tell you, i was listening to fineman in your last segment. >> yes. >> i think it was fineman. and he was saying that the president has to address us congressmen and senators. he doesn't have to only do that. the reason why i've been pushing for him to address us is because i want him to address my constituents. >> howedes he going to do that between now and next week? >> well, no, he's going to do it on tuesday. i think it's going to be one of the most significant speeches of his career. and i think he has to lay out the moral argument. that, i do agree. >> well, what about, you know how television works, it's almost much more dramatic. it's big picture when the president walks -- i just read a book about it, reagan when he walked into that chamber, they said it's such an unbelievable feeling. it's such drama when the president of the united states walks into that place where you work every day and isn't that more dramatic than sitting in his office?

>> i would love to see him in the chamber, i think that would be an ideal place. >> mr. vargas, would that help make your case if the president had the same passion you talked about about the evils of chemical weapons used? >> absolutely. >> would it be more dramatic if he showed up? >> oh, he should show up. i've known barack for a long time. we went to law school together. he's a great orator, he can make that argument not only to us but the whole world. i agree with you, sitting behind a desk, that's not going to do it. go to the chamber, talk to the people directly. then hang around and let us talk to him, too. >> thank you very much. i won't call you father. but it's great to have you on the show. thank you, i like this kind of conversation. it's really what our country about is. elijah cummings and juan vargas. up next, what's got bill clinton so excited about his lunch with former president george bush. i think he's like his son in many ways.

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♪ it's time for "the side show." amid clashes of snowden, the awkward situation with president obama and vladimir putin was put to the test where both leaders participated in the g-20 summit. putin who is famous for his ridiculous photographs like this, actually tried to avoid contact with obama this time around. according to the "the guardian" the kremlin rearranged the seating to separate the two leaders at the imperial palace. but "tonight show's" jay leno imagined what could have happened last night. >> you know, putin's got this

whole macho thing going. did you see when they met today. show the president. here's the president arriving, look at this. now, watch. here comes putin. look, see, there's no -- [ laughter ] -- now, what is that? >> next, designer kenneth cole is getting a lot of media attention as new york's fashion week kicks off. but it may be proven that all press, not necessarily all press. in a tweet referring to a war in syria attempted to plug his brand. saying boots on the ground or not, let's not forget about sandals, pumps and loafers, #footwear. his critics say he just wanted to provoke a dialogue. back in 2011, he claimed that the arab spring upridings in cairo were reaction to his new spring collection. speaking of famous footwear, former president bush's 41 socks are making news. it's because bill clinton wants a pair for himself.

after breaking bread yesterday, clinton tweeted enjoy might annual lunch with president bush and his wife in maine. has tagged sock swag. that's "hardball." thanks for being with us. coming up next, "your business" with j.j. ramberg. up the check? [thinking] i'm still working. he's retired. i hope he's saving. i hope he saved enough. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. whether you're just starting your 401(k) or you are ready for retirement, we'll help you get there. ♪ we go, go, we don't have to go solo ♪ ♪ fire, fire, you can take me higher ♪ ♪ take me to the mountains, start a revolution ♪ ♪ hold my hand, we can make, we can make a contribution ♪ ♪ brand-new season, keep it in motion ♪

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tear called preppers, people who are ready for any type of disaster, natural or man made. how entrepreneurs are marketing for them. and she had a great business plan for a new shoe company until somebody ripped off the idea. protects yourself, coming up next on "your business." ♪ small businesses are revitalizing the economy and americxp