what rides are more what ri then a ferris wheel? >> the ride from davenport to omaha. someone said the ride to jail. whatever happens on the ferris wheel stays on the ferris wheel. "morning joe" starts right now. today secretary of state kerry said the strikes would be unbelievably small. what does that mean? are we talking a pin prick, a knock out blow, a punch in the gut? >> the u.s. does not do pin predicti pricks. when we take limited strikes it has an impact on a country like syria that does not have a tremendous military capability.

they have a tremendous military capability relative to civilians, they have a significant military capability relative to children who are being gassed, but they don't have a mill that matches up with ours in any kind of way. good morning. it's tuesday, september 10th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have former communications director for president george w. bush, nicole wallace, national affairs editor for "new york" magazine zin and msnbc political contributor, and in washington, associate editor of "the washington post," eugene robinson, and nbc news capitol hill correspondent kelly o'donnell along with willie, joe and me. we got a big day ahead. president obama, joe, will address the nation tonight from the white house and according to brand new polls out this morning, military intervention in syria could be one of the

toughest sells of his presidency. a new nbc/wall street journal poll shows after a week of public lobbying half of americans don't think he's made a convincing case. and approval for the president's handling of the crisis is back sliding. 57% disapprove, just 28% approve. 58% of americans say congress should not back military action at all. the president's overall job approval is holding steady at 45%, up a point from a few weeks ago however according to another poll the president's approval on foreign policy has taken a hit with 54% now disapproving. that's a sharp increase from july. in a round of interviews on multiple networks the president admitted the case for military strikes in syria has been an uphill battle. >> the battle aren't with you. >> not yet. as i said i understand that. i'll have a chance to talk to the american people directly

tomorrow. i don't expect it to swing the polls widely in the direction of another military engagement. if you ask the average person including my household if we need another military engagement the answer generally will be no. what i'll try to propose is we have a very specific objective, a very narrow military option and hopefully people will recognize why this is so important. >> would you act without congress? the answer could be yes, no, or i haven't decided. >> i think it's fair to say i haven't decided. i read polls like everybody else. if you ask michele, do we want to be involved in another war, the answer is no. and so i recognize how important that debate is. and it's my belief that for me, the president, to act without consensus in a situation where there's not a direct imminent threat to the homeland or

interests around the world that that's not the kind of precedent that i want to set. >> nbc isn't the only poll that shows eroding support. "usa today" pew poll has 63% opposing military strikes. up 15 points from a week ago. the trend is similar in an abc "the washington post" poll. the support -- it's not there across the board. you talk to anybody and they just don't even want to hear about it. they don't want to do it. >> good luck finding someone outside of the foreign affairs field that support these strikes on syria especially even that number is dwindling after john kerry talking about incredibly small strikes. they keep sending out unfortunate leaks from the white house. this is amateur hour at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. it's an embarrassment for america and for the world. let's hope that starts to change

this week. let's hope they can turn it around. you know, i heard the same thing around my dinner table last night. kate came home and had a pretty weighty fifth grade assignment and a couple of questions about syria. what do you think, daddy? i'm sitting there looking at my three big macs we brought in. i just want to eat. i said it's not that simple. we started talking and had a discussion and everybody "around the table" said the same thing. where do we want to get involved in another war? and there's just overwhelming opposition across america. we've heard it from everybody. it reminds me of ronald reagan in his final day in office, he was starting to leave the oval office and here was the guy who was the most successful politician since fdr and he turned and looked back and instead of all the victories he thought back to when the 240 marines were killed in the

barracks in beirut and he changed his entire foreign policy and had what was called the weinberger doctrine and said one you never commit force until it's vital to national interest, and you have the support needed to win the operation. when you hear john kerry talking about incredibly small strike this isn't the win. this is only to send a message. and this case, mika, reagan said after vietnam the lessons of vietnam and beirut had to be that we could never send our troops back into military situations without the support of congress and without the support of the american people. that's really his biggest challenge. he can turn that around. but only he can turn it around. and if we see these numbers where 25% of americans support this, and 50%, 60% oppose it we can't be involved in a military action. >> there's a couple of twists to

this that some are saying as possibly a desperate option for the administration that involves russia. we'll get to that. obviously a lot at stalk tonight with the president's speech to the nation. first, kelly o'donnell, let's take a look with your reporting in terms of where the votes are at this point. i mean, is there any support there that's growing? >> well there's some. there were a few surprises that went the president's way and that would include senators like barba barbara mulcusky. some voices were stepping forward on the senate floor. around 6:00 harry reid came to the floor and said he had spoken to the president and spoke the republicans and was putting on hold this vote. he said it in a very kind of slow measured tone. it didn't have the sirens that

might have been associated but boy that was a bulletin in the sense of putting a delay on this means they don't have to force a vote before the president speaks, before the president visits congress today, he'll be meeting with senators in both parties today. there's been enormous outreach, the most i've seen from the obama white house to congress during this administration. they talked to lots of senators. i spoke with a senator who spent three hours sunday tonight with the president and vice president and said there was no chitchat, it was all solid discussion of syria and even after that this particular senator was not swayed. that's a challenge. you know, what can the president do when the facts are so difficult in this case. and even people who don't supportive of especially the u.s. credibility in the world it's really a challenge. >> all right. willie? >> it seems to me what kelly is talking about is convincing congress. tonight the president has to convince the american public and he has to tell them what this

mission is. secretary of state kerry says it will be unbelievable small. not just him. the president says it will be limited and tar get. and then he said we don't do pin pricks. to me that signals something larger than limited targeted strike. he has to explain because the american public is so skeptical of military action what exactly we're going to do. >> he has to explain what we're going to do. he has to explain why we're going to do it. the larger problem that he has is emanating from the white house -- i know white house never keeps quiet when they are frustrated with the white house's messaging but the largest problem is the only thing shining through with clarity is the president's ambivalence about doing anything. he's got advisors like susan rice who made an extremely clear case. she talked about the danger of

p proliferation of chemical weapons. obama so far has not been able to speak with clarity on this issue what we're going to do or why. >> i want to get to john and eugene as well but there's another twist to this which is so interesting. the chances of avoiding military action may be possible thanks to of all people vladimir putin. russian leadership has embraced a plan for syrian president bashar al assad that appears to have been floated rhetorically bisek john kerry yesterday. >> he could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week. turn it over. all of it. without delay and allow a full and total accounting for that but he isn't about to do it and can't to be done. >> russian diplomats jumped at the opportunity quickly proposing a plan for syria to

turn over its chemical weapons. the syrian government voiced its support for the russian plan. the president and other top members of congress responded to russia with guarded optimism. >> are you skeptical? does it seem like a stalling tactic? >> i think a famous american president said trust but verify. this represents a potentially positive development and my preference consistently has been a diplomatic resolution. >> if the regime immediately surrendered its stockpiles to international control as was suggested eed bisey secretary d

the russians but this cannot be another excuse for delay or obstruction. it's very important to note that this discussion that has taken hold today about potential international control over syria's stockpiles only could take place in the context of a credible military threat by the united states. >> senator john mccain also released a statement urging caution. all of us need he says to be realistic about this situation. we should not trust and we must verify. the only credible way for the obama administration to test this proposal is to immediately introduce a u.n. security council resolution that spells out in clear detailed terms exactly what the international community should expect of the assad regime if it is serious about abandoneding its weapons

of mass destruction. this resolution must be presented as a take it or leave it offer and agreed to within a week at the security council or else we run the risk that russia and syria will use this gambit as a way to play for time and continue the massacre of innocent men, women and children in syria. john, i'm not sure what to say about this offer. how do we at this stage of the game? >> well -- >> at this stage of the game this pops up out of nowhere. >> it shouldn't be lost to history yesterday when kerry made the suggestion he wasn't making a suggestion, he was making a rhetorical point which is to say assad will never do this. he was not putting an offer on the table. he threw it out there. the state department was asked about it later in the day. senator kerry is not proposing a plan he's trying to make a

rhetorical point. by the mid-afternoon the white house counter manded what the state department said and took this in a different direction. >> because the syrians and russians jumped on it and now we're responding to the syrians and the russians. >> when joe made the point earlier and i generally tend not to want to go as far as joe does, this is amateur hour. yesterday to me looked like amateur hour where everybody is improvising. it's a fluid situation. and what the main, to me looking at 24 hours of yesterday where do we end up with this thing with the russians whether it's to be taken seriously or not, senator mccain -- hold on joe. everyone is desperately looking for an off-ramp here. there's no one who wants this action. the people who are trying to -- the president doesn't want to do this, no one in congress, we're delaying the vote.

everybody is trying to find some pretext to get off this freeway. >> so, john, what has this been over the past several weeks if not amateur hour. we go back to last week where the secretary of state came out and made a statement so strong that the prime minister of great britain went to tell his cabinet members that america was going to strike immediately and then the connect day he was chopped out from under his feet. then we started to get messages from the white house it was going to be a tiny strike. then the president said it was going a shot across the bow which means firing with no effect. it's absolutely continued. i'm not saying this to be difficult. to many historians gave barack obama a free pass for the first two years of his presidency and wouldn't say what everybody else knew he just wasn't up to the job of being president.

he didn't know how to run washington. he got bogged down in health care. my question to you is can you say at that time this has been anything other than amateurish over the past ten days? >> you miss my point. i generally don't like to go as far as you but in this case i am. we're not disagreeing about anything. just as a matter of prudence i like to be about 10% more cautious than you. >> wow. >> would you suggest that calling the white house's handling of this crisis over the past ten days, somebody said it has been amateurish that would be an extravaganza rhetorical flourish. >> i'm agreeing with you. >> you agree with me and then

you back away from me. i'm like the dirty girl that nobody wants to date in high school. so you push me away you can't push me away. for liberals it's hard for people that have their cocktail parties on the upper west side and smoke huge bongs in brooklyn to admit i'm right when they talk about their hero in the white house. i haven't liked the ad hoc nature of this. let me try to tap it down a little bit so my brooklyn boy won't be offended by my rhetorical flourish. i'm sure you're disappointed by the ad hoc nature of the white house response to this crisis. and when i see john kerry saying something off the top of his head, the state department pushes away two hours later, that suddenly becomes possible

policy for the united states four hours later, i just feel like covering my eyes and turning away. it's getting more and more desperate by the moment. >> you know, my column this morning is about the administration's messaging or lack thereof and how confusing it's been and if you want people to support a military action especially at this point when we're war weary you have to do a whole lot better. now we're here. what john called a potential off-ramp i think it's an off-ramp, a delay that the russians and syrians would welcome, a way to stall. and the president and former secretary clinton are probably right in saying we wouldn't be

even to this point, the appearance of an off ramp if there had not been a threat of force because, remember, up until yesterday syria didn't even acknowledge having chemical weapons much less the possibility that they would turn them over. that said i don't think they have any intention of turning them over, and i think if anything is ever going to come of this russian proposal, they probably need to have the threat of force there still and i don't see how the president gets it at this point, given the way things have been in the last couple of weeks. >> let's go to willie geist next. willie, i got a correction here, by the way willie. somebody texted me and took great offense i guess was a dirty girl in high school, texted me in and she said the dirty girl in high school, you

mean the fun girl in high school. i don't know. >> i would love to know who that text was from. anyway, kelly -- >> that was neither dirty nor fun. >> you're fun, kelly. >> kelly, as i was saying, let's say currents national mood holds even after the president's speech tonight that the polls are against action in syria, he doesn't have the votes in the house that you have been stew dig, where does that leave the president of the united states? if he doesn't get either of those groups, doesn't get the authorization to take the action he wants to, you set this up as a great moral crisis can he walk away from syria then? >> i would expect there would have to be some other event that the president and the white house could look to as another leverage point. part of what i think made john kerry sort of off the top of his head comments so pivotal, prompted by a reporter what in the world could assad do.

kerry gives that answer and gets latched on to. members of congress and other members of the administration was running with it because this was a way to put a release valve on it. every member i'm talking to tells me about the pressure they are getting from home. there's not a compelling case to what would happen on day three, day five, day ten of a strike. you have people who want to be supportive of the president who are feeling that real vice between their constituents and the uncertainty of what's going on. i don't see how the president unless he's persuasive tonight or new information can turn those minds around. >> kelly o'donnell thank you very much. coming up on "morning joe," senator joe manchin will join us. we'll talk exclusively to jay carney. "the washington post" booed woodward will join us and later, joe, did you order this up?

>> i did. i did. i saw him on some program. he's growing things. >> what? >> he's growing things like, you know, like the much bigger scale. >> healthy organic plants? >> i think so. it's sort of a breaking bad cable news style sort of thing. except i don't think he has got cancer. this guy was the best in his day when everything was melting down, willie geist, do you remember? he came on and he talked about what people did in their bed. do you remember that, willie? >> i do. >> they messed their bed. he said dylan what happened on wall street? everybody just messed their bed except he didn't say mess. >> he said they are having -- >> dylan ratigan will be here

thanks to joe. >> i like that. come on this show. i'll be in the caribbean. >> exactly. up next -- >> money party. i love that. >> that's a money party. up next the top stories in "the politico" playbook. but first here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning. on this tuesday we're at the peek of hurricane season. this marks the period where we expect the most activity and right on cue we have a storm off the east coast. this will not affect any of the lower 48. bermuda will get hit and then our friends up in canada. this is tropical storm gabrie e gabrielle. it's dissipated and now reformed and again should only be a tropical storm. not expected to become a hurricane. it will clip nova scotia and newfoundland. humberto is expected to become a

hurricane. could become a category two or three hurricane but first hurricane of the year. that's not a threat either. what happened yesterday was very impressive. 101 in des moines. lot of schools had to let out early that didn't have air conditioning from minneapolis to southern wisconsin. today will be very hot. chicago, indianapolis, mid-to-upper 90s. cool front is cooling off the northern plains. today d.c. 91 and hot tonight and tomorrow from new york up to boston. so its looks like summer is making its return but short-lived on the east coast. another cool weekend heading your way. new york city and new england few showers this morning. the heat is on its way. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by --

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proliferation. 27 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. "new york times," toyota is issuing a recall of nearly 780,000 cars for the second time. the company says the initial recall in august of 2012 did not solve all the issues. the recall covers mostly rad 4s but some lexus models involved. not all vehicles will be repaired until next february due to a limited amount of parts. >> the u.s. is ranked 17th on the list of the world's happiest countries. denmark leads the pack as number one. of the 156 on the list u.s. fell slightly from 11th place last time around still ahead of the uk at 22nd and japan 43rd. factors at play include life length. >> tina fey will host season

premier of "saturday night live." since exiting snl in 2006 fey has hosted three times. mimy cyrus will be the host and musical guest on october 5th followed by bruce willis and katy perry. >> tina fey. twitter is the new owner of start up of mopub. this purchase suggests twitter is looking to make it easier to buy ads. it indicates steps towards filing for an ipo, a move expected to come by 2014. >> "the washington post," a painting that satin attic for 60 years is the work of vincent van gogh. it was dubbed a fake because it

was not signed. but with help of x-rays, the museum in amsterdam authenticated the work. it's the first full size van gogh canvas discovered since 1928. that's amazing. >> always sign your paintings. >> try to. >> on set here in new york city for a look at the political playbook, john harris. we were talking to jim about the takeover. coming to new york. sending your tentacles all over. are you excited? >> it will be good. trying to put some points on the board. we got a great team. it's going to grow quickly here in new york with the capital new york gang. >> your screaming headline this morning on politico.com the united states of weakness. you call this an avert your gaze moment in the history of the

modern presidency. obama's so far flaccid performance. >> you guys have been talking about it all show is the weakness of obama. his inability to rally the country, his use of military force. what that has done, willie, it has obscured how many other people and institutions look weak in this moment over syria. the political party, the idea you can have the leadership of both political parties say they support this and the majority of the congress if the vote was taken today is not following. that shows the decline of the party. frankly the mass media, it used to be a speech to the nation was one of the biggest things, biggest events in public life. the audiences for these have been going down. ability of a president or any leader to summon the whole nation has dissipated. it's not just obama whose weakness is being exposed that moment, i say it's the whole range of institutions and

leaders. >> wonder though, tonight, i think there will be huge interest. i can't imagine the american public would not hear what the president has to say on such a controversial issue. eugene robinson, how important is it that the president makes an incredible case tonight showing passion and a sense of instinct and gut on this issue? >> i think it's provincially important and it's more important because of what we've seen in the last few weeks. people are confused. they are confused on the most basic question does the president want to do this or not and why, and by the way what are we talking about? and, you know, many of us who think the use of chemical weapons is just an outrage. it's an atrocity. but there does need to be a more coherent plan to confront it. that's what people are going to expect to hear from the president, why are you bothering

us with this. why your thinking about this? >> that's the question does he really want to do this. to show the american people we're war weary maybe that's convoluted. having said that i appreciate he gets we've went engaged for far too long in certain areas. >> the command or lack thereof as some have said of this issue and he has to convince a group of people to go to war and it seemed at times he was convincing himself as he goes. >> i'm excited jay carney will be on. when he was a reporter at times warner he covered the bush magazine. he was, i think, incredibly persistent in trying to get to the bottom between the different of difference of a message problem. an even bigger problem they have a substance problem, they have a principle problem, they have a president problem. the president's advisers have

been pretty good at articulating the reasons for striking syria. they talked about the danger of proliferation of chemical weapons. it's their principle, the president who has conveyed nothing but ambivalence and disdain for military problem. >> the substance problem reinforces that they are undecided. paul mcgowan had this great phrase problem with us we wear our underwear on the outside. that's what the administration has been doing. reviewing their sort of internal deliberations. >> in this case it's a onesie with feet. this is a white house that refuses to do what it says is he in. republicans didn't go -- my husband this morning said stay calm, this isn't is a republican-democrat debate it's democrat on democrat. that's true. some of the president's most staunch defenders, some call him

a reluctant leader. it's admirable to be a reluctant warrior but shameful to be a reluctant leader. >> there's a republican on republican issue, nicole, which is fascinating when you hear john mccain versus ted cruz and rand paul. one of the interesting things about this, actually, from the political science perspective is how it does not go down strict party lines unlike so much elm that we talk about these days. but, you make an extremely valid point about the apparent division inside the president's head about what to do. >> john, let me ask you quickly about another piece this colorado recall nationally a lot of people may not be following it but it's about guns. larger question. >> they pushed forward gun control in colorado, in the wake of sandy hook. now there's a recall effort for some of the state senators who pushed that. they are going to try to take them, kick them out of office.

so a very localized election has become national. nra is playing big. mike bloomberg spent all that money to support gun control supporters is in there and we'll find out just the national debate and really concentrated way coming thome colorado. >> obviously the state that saw aurora last summer. >> up next rg3 returns to the field. michael vick and the eagles run all over the redskins. and why joe girardi and buck showalter had to be physically separated during last night's yankees game. sports next. a restaurant dinner is over $10.50 per meal. this tasty stouffer's lasagna dinner from walmart is less than $2.15 a serving. replacing one restaurant dinner a week saves your family of four over $1750 a year.

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interception. he takes that to the house in the fourth quarter. just signed a huge contract. texas knocking in the winning field goal as the clock winds down. texas beats the charger. eagles redskins. chip kelly new head coach in philly showing off a new offense. boy they just don't stop. michael vick through for two touchdowns. eagles led by as many as 19 points until rg3 led the redskins to two touchdowns. philly takes the opener 33-27. they played fast. tennis, the u.s. open men's final number two seed rafael nadal top seeded novak djokovic in one of the best rivalries in tennis. one of the greatest rallies in grand slam history. 54 shots. 54 shots on one point. more than a minute of play. we had to speed it up 16 times normal speed. novak djokovic gets the point and the break right there. the two former champs splits the

first two sets but nadal win the third and fourth for his second u.s. open and 13th grand slam title. congratulations to nadal. baseball now yankees and orioles after the first inning baltimore's buck showalter manager comes out of the dugout angry after joe girardi accuses him of stealing signs. no ejection approximately orioles win 4-2. they move ahead of tampa bay for that second wild card slot. >> who won? >> joe girardi. pirates got their 82nd win of the season. one game back of the cards. lead the wild card race. cincinnati lost, they are two back of the cardinals. dodgers rocked the d-backs and cleveland beat kansas city.

dylan ratigan joins us right here on set as we mark five years since the collapse of the financial sector. can't wait to see d. r. up next another great friend joins us, harold ford jr. joins us. this is vintage "morning joe." we'll be right back. you can reuse almost anything. paper bags. soda bottles handcuffs i'm just saying. so see what you can reuse. you'll reduce what's sent to landfills. the more you know.

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we raise black and red angus cattle. we also produce natural gas. that's how we make our living and that's how we can pass the land and water back to future generations. people should make up their own mind what's best for them. all i can say is it has worked well for us. >> will there be attacks against american bases in the middle east if there's an air strike? >> you should expect everything. >> expect everything. [ laughter ] assad, is he threatening us or pitching a new tourism slogan. our dreams are attainable.

syria. expect everything. >> oh, my goodness at 46 past the hour live look at the white house. lights are on. time now for the must read opinion pages. joining us on set msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nyu, harold ford jr. good morning. good to have you. eugene robinson, i know we touched on this, asking the question does the president really want to do this or not. i'm going read from your piece because i think it's the key here and the key to the debate because i would say some might appreciate that this is not easy, that this is a very tough decision but maybe not. you say the obama administration keeps undermining its own case for a punitive strike in syria. if the president wants permission from congress and support from the american people he and his aides had better get their story straight. the messaging to use an unfortunate washington term has been confusing, contradictory and half hearted.

secretary of state john kerry through mud into turbid waters monday when he said the attack would be an unbelievably small limited kind of effort. this punch line came at the end of a string of similar assurances, no troops on the ground, nothing prolonged, merely a very targeted short term affair. but if the attack is designed to be so limited why bother? why not give a special enjoy to give sir ran dictator bashar al assad a stern talking to. the president realizes there's competing pressure here for or against a strike on sir not just here but around the world. >> there's competing pressures. president made it clear for the last two years, really, that he had no appetite for getting involved in the syrian civil

war. he didn't see a role for the u.s. to play that was constructive. some people disagree with that such as john mccain and lyndsin grah graham. then came the use of chemical weapons and the president was definitive. he said that this cannot be tolerated. this is so far beyond the pale that there has to be a response. and if the u.s. has to go it alone the u.s. goes it alone. and then he did that pivot, right after john kerry essentially announced the strike the president said but we're going to congress. okay then in the lobbying effort before congress, i think you've heard such confusing statements about the attack that it's difficult for people who would like to support the president to fully support him. and there hasn't been a lot of

incentive for democrats to say i'm going to take this tough vote for the president. because they don't have much to hang their hat on. >> i think that's the problem for democrats. i actually listened to the president in the rose garden last saturday. i wanted to be one of those people who wanted to support him. how hard it is for democrats who want to be there, who want to not only make a case to the constituents but make the case to their colleagues. >> i do think the republicans are struggling a little bit with this but this is a democrat-republican thing. first a lot would have thought this deliberation that's occurring now, that hammering would have occurred six months ago particularly when the president made that red line comment. you don't make that comment unless you understand what to do after it's crossed. to hear them talk about a limited targeted strike, the american people say if that's

all it is why don't you do it. >> do they want more? >> if all this is, if you listen -- how the american people, why the majority of the country is against it. the american people believe if you are asking congress and us for support maybe you want more prolonged. i'm agreeing with eugene it's a confusing message. they fine themselves in the morning someone says something, in the afternoon someone says something different and in the evening they reconcile it. they've been doing it for the last several days. the numbers for the president will only grow worse unless he gives a speech of his life this evening. >> one thing i think people will be wanting to know as harold said, why is this different from libya? in libya the president ordered u.s. military action and was out having to go to congress without deciding to go to congress so the administration says well there was imminent danger that the people of benghazi were going to be massacred

by gadhafi. after 100,000 people killed in syria was there less imminent danger for the syrian people in this case now that assad is using chemical weapons? it's hard to argue that they were safer. >> all fair questions. i'm just not sure it's fair to say it's convoluted because we're not hearing a fervency for war or a massive strike. >> if all we're doing is limited, let's do it. >> this is just holding him to his own desires. he came out and called for a strike. >> i know. stimulus ahead on "morning joe," it's primary day in new york city and anthony weiner is not going out without a fight. he had can't miss interview with our very own lawrence o'donnell next on "morning joe". um... where's mrs. davis?

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>> it's primary day here in new york city. anthony weiner is in that race. so lawrence o'donnell had anthony weiner the candidate on last night on his program. >> that's an exclusive. >> lawrence doubted the chances

of mr. weiner to win the race. >> what is wrong with you? >> i don't understand the question what is wrong with me that i care so much about the issues that i fight for every day that i have for my entire career. >> no. what i mean is this, what is wrong with you you can't seem to imagine a life without elective office? >> that's ridiculous. >> there is something wrong zmoosh i knwith you. >> i'm looking at your life. you're relentless about certain things in your life. >> that's not true. i took time off from government. i took time off doing it. >> try to go out there -- >> you don't like the way i -- so -- >> try to do some good somewhere anywhere in the world, the bronx where you didn't make money. >> dial it down a second. do you want to ask me a question

or you want to harangue with a split second. >> here's what i would like to do. >> yes. give me ten of them. >> i would like you to stay, if you will, we'll continue this online and you can -- >> online. you harangued online. nobody watches the show. all right buddy it's been great. >> we'll find out if anthony weiner sticks around to do this online. anthony weiner you'll get the last word. >> oh, my god. >> he did stake round online. he stayed for more. >> what is wrong with you? wait a minute. word of the day. >> the most important dynamic entrepreneurial city of the world. >> word of the day is chilax. >> question of the month is what is wrong with you? i've been dying to know. >> it's interesting to watch

anthony weiner do these national interviews in the last days of the campaign. eugene robinson great piece today. go check it out online. thanks, gene. >> thanks, willie. i don't think there's anything wrong with you. >> thank you. that gives me great comfort. former chief of staff to george w. bush andy card will join us and bob woodward. more "morning joe" when we come back. helicopthierhis hibuzzing, andk engine humming. sfx: birds chirping sfx: birds chirping we're gonna stop beating ourselves up about our weight. we're not gonna give up what we love. it's not gonna happen. and when the pounds still come off... we'll be like, "whoa!" one night we'll even eat a cupcake like it's our job. just not the entire cake.

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>> we're not going to war. we will be able to hold bashar al assad accountable in a very limited, very targeted, very short term effort without assuming responsibility for syria's civil war. unbelievable small limited kind of effort. >> so watch out bashar al assad, america is going to bring down the unbelievably small hammer. [ laughter ] but to be clear, to be clear, we're not looking to affect the course of the nail. [ laughter ] welcome back to "morning joe." it's the top of the hour. nicole wallace and harold ford jr. is still with us and joining us from san antonio former chief of staff to george w. bush andy card back on the show. good to have you. from san francisco, pulitzer prize winner bob woodward. big show this morning.

bob's book "the price of politics" is now out in paper book. joe, we'll start, of course, the big story of the day and what will happen tonight the president will address the nation from the white house and according to brand new polls this morning military intervention in syria could be one of the toughest sells of his presidency. what do you think he needs to do tonight. is there anything he can do? >> well, before i answer the question i have a few questions of my own sparked by lawrence o'donnell's interview of anthony weiner. >> we'll get to that. >> nicole, you liked lawrence's interview last night. so what's wrong with you? >> so many things. so many things and they are not suitable for this family friendly program. i don't know. do you want to talk hear. >> harold ford what's wrong with you? >> my answer resembles you. >> so many things. guys, that was tv. and when you had a guy who

wanted to be mayor of the largest city in america in one of the most important of the world saying chilax. it's like you knew that was the strike in the ninth inning and going out to clean up the field. the game was over. designee knew he struck out in the game a long time ago and trying to save face with a bunch of international interviews. i'm not sure he accomplished that. >> lawrence will be on tomorrow. >> wow. okay. >> okay. >> let's all wear face guards. i want to go actually to bob woodward. bob, you've been around -- >> too long. >> you chronicled quite a few administrations. i've got to ask you and in all of your years working in washington, have you ever seen an administration attempt to go into a war in such an ad hoc, i used the word last hour, in such

an ad hoc manner with absolutely no overarching strategic vision? >> it's not only the vision, there's no plan, unfortunately. and in strategic thinking you need to say where do i want to be in a month and then step your way towards that with very coherent messages and so forth and, obviously, this has not worked out. here in san francisco last night i spoke to about 1600 people and took a poll. now it's not a representative sample of america, but very progressive democratic audience. how many people would support the president? i couldn't count 50 hands. so he's out there alone. at the same time i think he did the right thing by going to congress, war is a shared power and it's proper that a president do this if he can pull it off

and i still wouldn't say it's impossible. you know, to parraphrase donald rumsfeld you have to go with the president you have and he's going be there tonight pleading in essence saying, you know, i think this is right. i'm the commander-in-chief, please back me. >> you know, harold ford, nine years ago the president was in boston making that, just remarkable speech talking about how there wasn't a blue state america, there wasn't a red state america. there was a united states of america. he was going to bring us all together. well talking to you a couple of days ago, i think he's finally done it. if i go to pensacola, one of the most conservative districts in america and everybody comes up to me and says hey congressman we got stay out of syria. tell everybody, we can't -- it was nonstop. you told me you went to memphis

the next weekend and your old stomping grounds, you heard the same thing from your very democratic base, didn't you? >> it's amazing across the board, i couldn't agree with you more. both ends teen middle of the spectrum find the opinion very similar to what you just shared. again, i tried to share and i hope i did it artfully. a lot of people respect the president and respect every president when it comes to making decisions about war and when national security interests are involved. they seem to have handled this in a clumsy it compounds the problem. you look at the republican side, democrat side. this morning you have lamar alexander who is opposing this effort because he's facing an electoral challenge from a primary opponent and in alaska, same position where he may face a tough opposition as a result of this vote as well. across the board, joe, not only do we experience people in elected office experiencing the

same kind of things we heard. >> mika, it seems the president's clumsiness has provided his political opponents with the material they need. doesn't matter whether i'm reeding from democrats who might disagree or ted cruz whose foreign policy more closely resembles rand paul than a realist but you read ted cruz's op-ed and a lot of people that might not agree with the senator from texas on a lot of issues will agree what he said this morning and it's in large part because the president keeps talking about these incredibly small strikes, these shots across the bow -- >> secretary kerry does. >> -- even the talk a very small hammer. >> let's see what happens tonight. but having said that it's an

uphill battle in terms of public opinion. a new nbc/wall street journal poll shows after a week of public lobbying more than half of americans don't think he's made a convincing case. approval for the president's handling of the crisis is back sliding. 57% disapprove, 28% approve. 58% of americans say congress should not back military action at all. the president's overall job approval is holding steady at 45% up a point from a few weeks ago. however according to another poll the president's approval on foreign policy has taken a hit with 54% disapproving. in a round of interviews on multiple networks the president admitted the case for military strikes in syria has been an uphill battle. >> the people aren't with you? >> not yet. as i said i understand that. so i'll have a chance to talk to the american people directly tomorrow. i don't expect that it will suddenly swing the polls widely in the direction of another

military engagement. if you ask the average person, including my household, do we need another military engagement i think the answer generally is going to be no. but what i'm going to try to propose is we have a very specific objective, a very narrow military option and hopefully people will recognize why i think this is so important. >> would you act without congress? the answer could be yes, no, or i haven't decided. >> i think it's fair to say that i haven't decided. i read polls like everybody else. if you ask michele do we want to be involved in another war the answer is no. and so i recognize how important that debate is and it's my belief that for me, the president, the act without consensus in a situation where there's not a direct imminent threat to the homeland or interests around the world, that that's not the kind of precedent

that i want to set. >> let's bring in andy card from texas. andy, you as chief of staff to president george w. bush went through some of this, selling a war to the american people, selling war to the united states congress. what's your analysis of the way that the obama administration has rolled this out and to the extent they've done a bad job in terms of getting public support, you look at the polls and dwindling support in congress what can they do to reverse that? >> first of all, i think president obama already has the authority to strike syria. so if he thinks it's important to do he could do it. i think it was a mistake for him to go to congress the way he went to congress. i want to see a strong president. i want the world to see a strong united states. and i fear that he has invited question of character and resolve and projects weakness right now around the world and that's not what i want. i want a strong president. if i were a member of congress today i would reluctantly vote to give him the authority to

make the decision what to do. i think he already has that authority. so i don't think this is not new authority, he already has the authority to make the decision. i don't think that he has thought through the consequences of action in syria. i don't think he'll change the balance of power with the kind of responses that he's talking about. and that's really the big question, should he act or not act? i think he has the authority to act now without congress. if congress were to give him authority i still don't think he should act unless he knows what the unintended consequences might be and how he can mitigate them and are you going to change the balance of power in syria and i don't think you'll change the balance of power in syria today. >> do you think the president should have launched these if they were limited strikes on syria and come out in the rose garden and said i made a difficult decision i did this in the national interest, i did this to save lives, i did this to keep chemical weapons out of assad's hands. in other words, action first,

explain to the people afterwards? >> you know, i'm not sure that i agree that that should have been the strategy because i don't know everything. the president knows a lot more than we do. and if he thinks he needs to respond he could respond. but i don't think telegraphing all this -- what would happen right now okay if congress gives him authority to do it then he reluctantly says he wants to do it because he says he had to do it but we don't know what the targets would be and bashar al assad decides to empty the prisons and put people am around these chemical weapons sites so end up a lot of innocent people get killed and america gets blamed. i don't think that's smart. i'm not sure you'll change the balance of power by action right now. the talk has hurt the president's ability to demand some kind of world reaction against bashar al assad. i think right now this is all about the u.s. we look weak. the president has not projected strong decisive leadership,

instead he's been waffling. >> you say the talk has projected weakness but action. can you imagine the reaction if the president -- >> that's what the president would have to consider if he's going to be taking action. he's the one who said -- no, no. he said there's at that red line you cross the red line there's a consequence. okay. what's the consequence? i think that he projected strength, has demonstrated weakness and now is looking for a way out. and he's trying to have congress help him find a way out. but even there i'm not sure that action is what is needed. i think we need more resolve and more understanding. >> mika, could i ask this question. first of all, i don't think president obama has ever said or indicated that whatever he did in syria would change the balance of power. that is not the aspiration.

the idea is some sort of punishing strike and that's the problem. what is the objective? what your going to do? i think andy card is right, in all of the telegraphing you give the president of syria and his military an opportunity to prepare and, you know, whether they are going to empty the prisons or something like that, this is just not the way to do it. now, i think underlying it all and having spent some time trying to figure out the mind of barack obama, i'm pretty sure he really does not like war. in his nobel prize acceptance speech in 2009 he said oh, yeah war is sometimes necessary, but it is always an expression of human folly and i think you can argue he's right it is human folly but you can't take the

human folly of the assad regime and say we're going to meet it with our own and that's what this looks like and i agree totally with joe, this is ad hoc. you can't run something like this, can't run anything like this. >> well, andy card was talking about looking for a way out, the chances of avoiding military action may be possible thanks to the people, of all people vladimir putin. russian leadership has embraced a plan that's been floated rhetorically by secretary john kerry yesterday. >> he can turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week. turn it over. all of it. without delay. and allow a full and total accounting for that but he isn't about to do that and can't to be

done. >> russian diplomats took the opportunity quickly to propose a plan for syria to turn over their chemical weapons. the syrian government voiced its support for the russian plan. the president and other top members of congress responded to russia with guarded opt offism. >> your skeptical? does it seem like a stalling tactic? >> you know, i think a famous american president once said trust but verify. you have to take a look with a grain of salt initially but between the statements that we saw from the russians, the statement today from the syrians, this represents a potentially positive development, and my preference consistently has been a diplomatic resolution to this problem. >> it should be noted president obama yesterday said the russia plan is a continuation of conversations he's had with president putin for some time and that's true. there was the dinner that went late into the night, nicole.

it's not like this -- it appears to come out of the blue for us as we filter information as it comes to us but i guess, perhaps this is an option. >> it was floated in congress, i believe, senator manchin had a proposal -- >> we'll be talking to him. >> right. it didn't come out of nowhere. but no one should see russia as anything other than syria's best friend and closest ally. so the notion that they are doing anything in our interest is foolish and the likelihood that they are laughing at us is high. i have a question for andy card. if you were that staffer in the rose garden with president obama the day after your secretary of state had made a forceful and many people democrats and republicans thought eloquent and compelling case for maintaining and holding the president's red line on syria and on the use of chemical weapons, i know that you were expert at honoring the president's will but where is the line where an adviser has to

say to a president obama who is considering walking back now and tossing this to congress, you know, here are the consequences. you can do that if that's in your heart but here's the down side. it will spiral out of control. they have -- they have completely lost any momentum that secretary kerry had helped generate for them before president obama walked into the rose garden and tossed it to congress. what would you have advised him to do? >> i think i would have asked him to step back and think about the context. chief of staff brings peripheral vision to the debate. it would have been a good peripheral discussion about what's happening in the world and the reality of the consequence of all the comments that have been made. it's a great segue, there's a documentary coming out on the discovery channel i think on wednesday and thursday night and it's called "the president's gate keepers" about the chief of staffs that served presidents of the united states and it's critical that a chief of staff

to a president have a candid relationship with the president where they can kind of talk without worry about the veneer of how things look from the outside. it's more -- these are the options you have, mr. president. describing the ugly and the good and helping the president make impossibly difficult decisions. but the job is very difficult, and i hope people will watch that show on the discovery channel. >> speaking of the ugly and the good i'll promote the show by showing this portion. here's andy describing the heated moments aboard air force one as the staff decided what to do in the moments following 9/11. >> we're flying waiting for fighter jets to come up and protect us and the whole time the president is telling me we're going back to washington. the secret service is saying we can't go back there until we know more what's happening. president bush was adamant.

he even used terms like i'm the president of the united states. and i was trying to be cool, calm and objective. and i had the secret service very firm with me. i had the president of the united states very firm with me. and i just said, mr. president, i really can't recommend it. we have to know more about the nature of the attacks and if others are coming. he was firm with me and, yes, he was yelling at me. he was yelling at me. >> the documentary," the president's gate keepers," the two night event continues thursday night. andy it looks amazing and incredibly good timing, because these are the key moments that we don't get a peek into and you'll open the door for us. >> thank you very much. obviously the president has to make impossibly difficult decisions and the president's gate keepers, the chief of staff

have to help him do that job. >> andy card, thank you so much. often the president's gate keepers and other key people are in undisclosed locations. >> right. >> wonder where joe is right now? where is joe? joe -- wow. >> i'm actually -- i wandered over to the charlie rose studio. the charlie rose studio. i'm waiting for dick cabot and we want to talk about the new broadway season and after that cocktail parties late into the night. cocktail parties. all that and more on the charlie rose show. >> that looks pretty good. awkward. bob woodward thank you very much. your book "the price of politics" is out in paper back. final thoughts from you bob as we look ahead to the president's speech tonight. >> well, he's going to have to really pull one out. i think, you know, we don't know

where this is going. clearly the russians and president assad are up to something. this floated idea of let's get the chemical weapons out of syria, i understand there are 42 sites where our intelligence agencies think these weapons are. that's lots of places. i under if it's feasible to get them all out. but they are trying to find a way out. president obama is trying to find a way out, i believe, and so maybe something will happen and there won't be this military strike. >> all right. still ahead white house press secretary jay carney will be here to preview the president's speech tonight to the nation. he talks to us exclusively. and here on set we'll have dylan ratigan making his long awaited return to "morning joe." he joins us. it's a money party. he joins us as we wait five years since the financial

collapse. up next senator joe manchin is with us along with chuck todd to break down the new polls on syria. we'll be right back. you really love, what would you do?" ♪ [ woman ] i'd be a writer. [ man ] i'd be a baker.

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now from capitol hill, democratic senator from west virginia, member of the armed services committee, senator joe manchin and up in cambridge, massachusetts, nbc news chief white house correspondent political director host of the daily rundown from an undisclosed coffee shop chuck todd. where are you? >> i'm at the crema cafe here at harvard square. don't be undisclosed. they have been very kind to us.

i'm say crema cafe over and over again until i get free coffee. >> senator manchin, i want to start with you. you said you won't back the syria resolution. you propose an alternative that has to do with the chemical weapons convention, syria signing on to that. i wonder what you make of this proposal from the russians yesterday that they would somehow convince syria to put their are arms under an international collective and this would be a way out of military action. what do you make of that off center >> it's encouraging to hear more of the international community coming to their senses. if it's about chemical weapons we had no plan to either secure those chemical weapons or eliminate them. all we had was a plan to either strike and show them we had the military might to do so. you know, i've said so many times, being a superpower is more than having the super might to do what you want to do militarily, you need super patience, super negotiating, sue

per diplomacy and super humanitarian need. we have that ability to do all of that which makes us the superpower. but the bottom line is there was a different alternative. we were looking for an option. we didn't have an option. it's hypothetical to vote against something unless you are for something. this resolution says give assad to give the joint chemical weapons commission. he brings 191 countries that say you better comply. if he signs on we identify securing and eliminating his weapons and preventing him from producing more weapons. if he doesn't that shows the intentions. since there's known about urgency to strike, even all of our secured briefings have said that, the president said we can hit and show our military might at any time since we don't intend to have a regime change, since we don't intend to have boots on the ground to secure

the weapons we can do that any time. >> senator, what has been the response from the white house? you came up with this plan. have they been receptive of taking a breather for 45 days before military action? >> i've shared everything with the courthouse and with all my colleagues saying we do have an option rather than just walking away saying you either vote for the strike which shows the strength of the military and the presidency which all of us want to make sure we do but on the other hand we don't believe the strike will do anything except instigate more reaction. with that the option came. i see it moving. i saw secretary kerry for the first time say maybe in seven days even though he knows that's not a feasible time. they are looking for an option. you have to applaud the president for coming to congress. can you imagine the pressure the president has had? he said let's go to congress. some came to us. we've thrown out our ideas and see where they go. >> john? >> chuck, there's a lot of

moving pieces on the chess board over the last few days. this is a big day in terms of the president's speech tonight. where do you think they want to be 24 hours from now. at this time tomorrow, what would be a success for the white house in terms of tangible markers? >> i think at this point they know -- i think by the time he speaks tonight we may have a new authorization that's written, a new authorization that the president supports that includes, could it be that 45 days that senator manchin is talking about. this is moving fast. it's moving faster that be the perhaps even the white house thought it would move. but you see even his biggest supporters for taking action in syria are grasping on to this russian idea and are desperate to see if it plays out. so i think that they, that they see the best thing going is that he goes in front of the public tonight, acknowledges the idea,

still presses his case but is able to say, you know, this pressure of a potential military strike has worked, this is why the russians came forward at the last second with this idea, this is why that while skeptical we think it's the right thing to do to go through every last minute diplomatic channel and that's probably the best way, john forward for him to get a majority in congress to support him on this. he had no chance of getting this authorization passed in either the house and perhaps even the senate without some sort of delay. this what the russians have done is bought him time, bought members of congress time and now it's sort of like, okay, is this ultimatum, this is the moment that i think members of congress were hoping would be out there so that they could say i'm not voting for a military strike right now, i'm voting to make sure this last second diplomatic avenue is pursued before strikes

are conducted and i think that by 9:00 tonight i wouldn't be surprised if we're in a more official capacity of seeing that that's the case that the president is make, he's not making a case to strike in the next 48 hours, he's making a case to strike in the next 48 days. >> nicole wallace. >> senator, did you talk to john kerry yesterday before he floated something that sound very much like your proposal at the press conference that the state department then walk back and seemed to unwalk it back? were you in contact with any of them? >> no. i shared everything with them and their staff. i'm hoping they got a chance to see it. ours was brought together by a group of people that have expertise. we consulted with everybody we could and kept saying please, you people are very bright. you have been down this road before. give us some options. last thursday this is how this unravelled to where we had something that made sense because it all honed in on

chemical weapons. chuck just said something about the international community and all of our friends and allies. britain had voted not to do it. france has been reluctant. france said it would wait until the u.n. inspector reports back. france this morning also has agreed to support this kind of a movement and is going to put it before the u.n. so we're getting international buy in now. you know, we're part of this international community. and we need to be able to work with them and move in lock step. i think this is really an opportunity. i give the president, i truly give him kudos for coming to us. i also think his resolve to basically say we'll do what it takes to make sure these weapons are not used on any human beings anywhere in the world is also very admirable. but the bottom line is now cooler heads have to prevail. >> chuck todd, looking at these polls, it almost seems like an impossible sell tonight to the nation. >> i think it was clearly impossible and that's why i

think when you saw it was almost like a life raft the way the kerry proposal was grabbed on to. first of all, the russians grabbed on to it almost like a life raft to defend the white house here a little bit but so did members of congress, delaying the vote that harry reid did. i mean, you know, the white house is pretty skeptical of this proposal. they are not big believers of it. they were surprised that russians went public in support of it. they are somewhat optimistic. they have to take it seriously because members of congress are desperate to see if it's serious. why? look at these poll numbers. it's not even close. only a third of americans want their member to support this. often day period support for syria has gotten worse not better for the president. the president's position is handling of sir why has gotten worse. he's under 30 now on his

handling of syria. democrats give him more leeway on this than republicans but it's down every where. there's no public appetite. no political will in the country and if there's no political will in the country you won't have political will on capitol hill. that's why the white house has to embrace this russian proposal even if they don't believe it because they have no choice. >> senator joe manchin, thank you. joe, real quick. >> those poll numbers are even higher. i can tell you myself in west virginia first three days 4,000 contacts, only 40 people were for it. 1%. we can't find any colleagues i'm speaking to on capitol hill that has any support more than 5%. i don't know where the 30% comes from. but i can tell you it's not high. >> joe thank you and chuck we'll see you at 9:00 a.m. and maybe you'll let us know from crema if everybody that works there has to have miley cyrus' hair cut.

>> why. are you taking a shot? >> just want to know. >> this is harvard square. you can't be mocking harvard. >> what is it? >> keep checking out the show. >> chuck, i dare you. i dare you. okay. >> i think it would be good for the show. >> yeah. >> all right, chuck. >> i work for a living. i don't twerk for a living. >> oh, my gosh. from the crema cafe. >> i don't even know what to say. willie don't leave. don't leave me. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." >> he looks so happy. [ male announcer ] progress isn't about where you've been.

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42 past the hour. tomorrow on "morning joe" we'll be in washington for a complete reaction to the president's big speech tonight. form earthbound director of national intelligence admiral dennis blair will join us. dr. brzezinski, dad will be here. cokie roberts, david axelrod just to name a few. big show tomorrow. up next, oh, my god a man who needs no introduction, dylan ratigan. >> he's back. >> all right. >> he's back.

he's back. it's money party. we'll be right back. ♪ turn around ♪ every now and then i get a little bit hungry ♪ ♪ and there's nothing good around ♪ ♪ turn around barry ♪ i finally found the right snack ♪ ♪ man: sometimes it's like we're still in college. but with a mortgage.

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we're helping provide choices that make sense for everyone. because when people come together, good things happen. >> easy access to fresh and healthy sfood a challenge for millions of americans but some farmers think they have solved the problem and employing u.s. veterans to do it. >> we're able to deliver a much more nutritious faster growing tastier and morrow bust -- >> wait a second. hold on. i think i know this guy's bloated angrier brother. >> this is not an opinion. this is fact. you're wasting oxygen. can you cut off this man's microphone.

>> that's dylan ratigan from msnbc. what is he doing here. even his former colleagues can't believe what he turned his back on. >> what would possess an anchor to walk away from his success >> he did walkway. it was shocking how far he had fallen. >> wait a second are those crocs? >> yes. >> what's wrong with you. >> what's wrong with crocs. >> nothing if you're 3. you're a grown man. >> what if i was barefoot. >> joining us now on set former msnbc and cnbc anchor dylan ratigan. money party is back. he's author of the book "greedy bastards." he walks in the room, he looks

completely different and he talks about his life now which includes paddle boarding with dolphins and whales. are you kidding me? >> i did -- i was able to power board with dolphins and whales. i won't say that's my life. it would be fun if it was. >> you're walking it back. >> i'm teasing you. listen, it's enjoyable but it's not my life. >> what are you doing? you're doing really cool stuff and you're using veterans to do it. >> the truth of the matter is it goes back to the show i was able to do and was born from my original appearances with you guys five years ago on this show that then toledo "the dylan ratigan show." in the process of that i met a long list of really inspiring millennial veterans that brought me the message that the afghanistan and iraq veterans are the people who have the strength and power and the

awareness of how even if -- however you feel about the wars that america has the opportunity to be a country worth defending and that to make it a country worth defending we ought model the best practices and best possibilities of resource management around energy, around food, around water and those sorts of things. sustainable systems management is security. that was a message that was brought to me by liz perez who was on the uss cole. they brought that message to me. it really was inspiring for me. >> inspiring and a great business model. >> yeah. it is everything there it works. sustainability is defined by the capacity to create and to invest and create value for other people and in the process create meaningful work and equity for, in this case the veteran operator. >> five years ago we had you on the show and the money party began. it it was a money party. is it still a money party?

>> it is. it's interesting, the underlying part of it which are they still keeping secrets, are they still too big to fail, is it still sort of run off, yes, >> and yes. >> at the same time, you know, you have to give credit where credit is due. they did do a very good job using the central banking system to reinflate assets. and so, you know, you can have your opinions as to whether you want to have an economy that's controlled by a central bank, russia was obviously controlled by central banks, a lot of the chinese economy is controlled by a central bank, and the american economy has been very, you know, stock prices are back up, housing prices are back up. unfortunately in my opinion it was not done through meaningful reform. it was done through the rhee creation of a lot of money at the central bank. >> one of the themes you hammered from the first day you came on "morning joe" was transparency. >> yeah. >> we got to know what's going on behind the locked doors. we don't have transparency.

>> we don't. and if you're interested in looking at one person's journey through this whole thing, look at gary gensler. gary gensler was the chairman of the commodities trading commission through this process and led the crusade, former goldman guy, led the crusade to create transparency in the credit default swaps market, which is the whole thing and really had some success with a small portion of it to his credit, and congratulations are due to gary. i'm sure it was an incredible fight to get anything done, but the vast majority of that market is still in secret. you know, when this whole thing went down, aig is an american company but running out of a london branch with a different license. we have not dealt with the internationalization. there's a lot. >> you see so calm so, zen, and all that. what still fires you up? >> that's going to be my new

slogan. i battle with the fish. >> paddles with the fish. >> in new york, paddling with the fish has a different meaning. the thing that fires me up, i really believe that we as a society, as a western culture, have an opportunity to do a better job of harnessing the young aggressive energy that is natural in all societies, not just in our society, those in the middle east, russia, south america, and right now we either tend to shame it or we exploit it into conflict. >> right. >> and the opportunity to harness that aggressive energy into the adaptation of all of these new possibilities like the zero carbon housing, like the triple output hydropod -- it's a weird thing to put these very sort of young, capable, aggressive individuals around green houses and zero carbon buildings and all the rest of it. but the reality is that's what the world is crying for it.

the young aggressive energy is dying for a place to spend itself and be harnessed. and rather than harnessing it, i feel like we either, again, like i said, shame it and deny it or exploit it. and so that really is where my excitement lives right now. >> love what you're doing. >> thank you. >> great to see you. i think you should come back. >> would love to. >> i say that carefully. >> wouldn't be cool to have a little tv. you want to do it all. paddle with the fish and -- >> i think that would be good. guardrails. >> so that the fish don't come too close to you? >> that's correct. something like that. dylan ratigan, thank you very much. good to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> still ahead, white house press second care jay carney will join us ahead of the president's big speech tonight. "morning joe" will be right back. [ man ] this isn't my first career.

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up next, president obama gets ready to deliver a major address to the nation tonight on his syria plan, his new poll numbers show it's going to be a very hard sell. we'll talk to white house press secretary jay carney live to preview the president's message. plus, eugene robinson rejoins the conversation. we're back in a moment. here 's t

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it starts inbelievably small. what does that mean? a pin prick, a knockout blow, a punch in the gut? >> the u.s. does not do pin pricks. our military is the greatest the world has ever known. and when we take even limited strike, it has an impact on a country like syria that does not have a tremendous military capability. they have a tremendous military capability relative to civilians. they have a significant military

capability relative to children who are being gassed. but they don't have a military that matches up with ours in any kind of way. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast. this is a live look at new york city. back with us on set, nicole wallace and in washington, eugene robinson and kelly o'donnell. we've got a big day ahead today. president obama, joe, will address the nation tonight from the white house. and according to brand-new polls out this morning, military intervention in syria could be one of toughest sells of his presidency. a new nbc/"wall street journal" poll shows that after a week of public lobbying more than half of americans don't think he's made a convincing case. and approval for the president's handling of the crisis is backsliding. 57% disapprove, just 28% approve. 58% of americans say congress should not back military action at all. the president's overall job approval is holding steady at

45%, up a point from a few weeks ago. however, according to a mcclatchy marist poll, the president's approval on foreign policy has take an hit with 54% now disapproving. this is a sharp increase from july. in a round of interviews on multiple networks the president admitted the case for military strikes in syria has been an uphill battle. >> the people aren't with you. >> yeah, well not yet, and as i said, i understand that. so i'll have a chance to talk to the american people directly tomorrow. i don't expect it's going to suddenly swing the polls wildly in the direction of another military engainment. if you ask the average person, including my household do we need another military engagement i think the answer generally is going to be no. but what i'm going to try to propose is that we have a very specific objective, a very narrow military option, then hopefully people will recognize why i think this is so important. >> would you act without

congress? the answer could be yes, no, or i haven't decided. >> i think it's fair to say that i haven't decided. i read polls like everybody else. if you ask somebody, if you ask michelle, do we want to be stlofed in another war, the answer is no. and so i recognize how important that debate is, and it's my belief that for me, the president, to act without consensus in a situation where there's not a direct imminent threat to the homeland or interest around the world, that that's not the kind of precedent that i want to set. >> nbc isn't the only poll that shows eroding support. a "usa today" pew poll has those opposing military strikes. trend is similar in a "washington post" poll where 64% oppose. and, joe, obviously, the vote's been delay but the support is

not there across the board. you talk to anybody and they just don't want to hear about it. they don't want to do it. >> good luck finding somebody outside of the foreign affairs field that supports these strikes on syria, especially eve than number is dwindling after john kerry's talking about incredibly small strikes. they keep sending out unfortunate leaks out of the white house. this has truly been amateur hour at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. it's been an embarrassment for america. it's been an embarrassment for the world. let's hope that starts to change this week. let's hope they can turn it around. but, you know, i heard the same thing around my dinner table last night. kate came home and she had -- i thought it was a pretty weighty fifth grade assignment but a couple questions about syria, and she goes what do you think, daddy? i'm sitting there looking at my three big macs that we had brought in and i just want to eat my three big macs. and i said, well, it's not really that simple. and we started talking and had a discussion and everybody around

the table said the same thing. why do we want to get involved in another war? there's just overwhelming opposition all across america. we've all heard it from everybody. but, you know, it reminds me, ronald reagan in his final day in office, he was starting to leave the oval office, and here's a guy that was the most successful american politician since -- certainly since fdr. and he turned and he looked back. and instead of all the victories he thought back to when the 240 marines were killed in the barracks in beirut. and he changed his entire foreign policy, and he had what was called the weinberger doctrine, and he said you never commit force unless, one, it's vital to the national interest, two, you get clear intent and the military support needed to win the operation. and when you hear john kerry talking about incredibly small strike, this isn't to win. this is only to send a message. third and i think most

importantly reagan said after vietnam, the lessons of vietnam and beirut had to be that we could never send our troops back into military situations without the support of congress and without the support of the american people. that's really his biggest challenge. he can turn that around. but only he can turn it arnold. and if we see these numbers where 25% of americans support this and 50%, 60%, 70% oppose it, we just can't be involved in a military action. >> there are a couple of twists to this, that some are seeing as a possibly desperate option nor the administration that involves russia. we'll get to that. obviously a lot at stake tonight with the president's speech to the nation. first, kelly o'donnell, let's just take a look with your reporting in terms of where the votes are at this point. is there any support there that is growing? >> well, there is some. there were a few surprises that wept the president's way. and that would include senators

like barbara mccull ski, who came out strongly in support of giving the president the authority for him to make the decision. then a freshman senator martin hinrich of new mexico also a democrat came out in support. there were some voices stepping forward on the senate floor, but it feels a surprising moment, mee e ka, when right around 6:00, harry reid came to the floor and said he'd spoke on the president, spoken to the republican, and he's putting on hold this vote. he said it in a very slow, measured tone. he didn't have the sirens that might otherwise have been associated, but, boy, that was a bulletin in the sense of putting a delay on this means they don't have to force a vote before the president speaks, before the president visits congress today. they'll be meeting with senators in both parties today. there's been enormous outreach, really the most i've seen from the obama white house to congress during this administration. they've talk to lots of senators. i spoke with a senator who'd spent about three hours sunday night with the president and vice president and said there

was no chitchat. it was all solid discussion of syria. and even after that, this particular senator was not swayed. and that is really a challenge because -- >> that really is. >> -- you know, what can the president do when the facts are so difficult in this case and even people who want to be supportive of especially the u.s. credibility in the world, it's really a challenge. >> all right. willie? >> nicole, it seems to me this is what charlie's talking sacramento one thing, convincing congress, but tonight the president has to convince the american public. heenlsd got to tell them what this mission is, because if you listen to everything that happened yesterday, secretary of state kerr resays it will be unbelievably small, but it's not just him. the president said it would be limited and targeted. but then in that interview with savannah he said we don't do pin pricks, we have the strongest military in the world. to me that signals something larger than a limited targeted strike. he's got to explain because the american public is so skeptical of military action, what exactly we're going to do. >> he has to explain what we're

going to do. he also has to what extent plain why we're going to do to it. the larger problem that he has is that emanating from the white house, and i'm curious to hear from kelly because i know that congress never keeps quiet when they're frustrated about the white house's messaging. but the largest problem is that the only thing shining through with clarity is the president's ambivalence about doing anything. and he's got advisers like susan rice who have made an extremely clear case. she's talked about the danger of the proliferation of chemical weapons and the danger, as we all know, is that a chemical weapon is an incredible equalizer. >> right. >> but, you know, obama so far has not been able to speak with clarity on this issue about what we're going to do or why we're going to do it. >> there is another twist to this, which is so interesting giving what you said, the chances of avoiding military action may be possible thanks to of all people vladimir putin. russian leadership has embraced a plan for syrian president bashar al assad that appears to have been floated rhetorically

by secretary john kerry yesterday. >> he could turn over every single bit of his chemical weapons to the international community in the next week, turn it over, all of it, without delay, and allow a full and total accounting for that. but he isn't about to do it, and it can't be done. >> russian diplomats jumped at the opportunity, quickly proposing a plan for syria to turn over its chemical weapons. the syrian government also voylesed its support for the russian plan. the president and other top members of congress responded to russia with guarded optimism. >> are you skeptical? does it seem like a stalling tactic? >> you know, i think a famous american president once said trust but verify. you have to take it with a grain of salt initially, but between the statements that we saw from the russians, the statement

today from the syrians, this represents a potentially positive development, and my preference consistently has been a diplomatic resolution to this problem. >> now, if the regime immediately surrendered its stockpiles to international control as was suggested by secretary kerry and the russians, that would be an important step. but this cannot be another excuse for delay or obstruction. it is very important to note that this discussion that has taken hold today about potential international control over syria's stockpiles only could take place in the context of a credible military threat by the united states. >> senator john mccain also

released a statement urging caution. "all of us need to be realistic about this situation. we should not trust, and we must verify. the only credible way for the obama administration to test this proposal is to immediately introduce a u.n. security council resolution that spells out in clear, detailed terms exactly what the international community should expect of the assad regime if it is serious about abandoning its weapons of mass destruction. this resolution must be presented as a take it or leave it offer and greeed to within a week at the security council or else we run the risk that russia and syria will use this gambit as a way to play for time and continue the massacre of innocent men, women, and children in syria." i'm not sure what to say about this offer. how do we even -- at this stage of the game?

>> well, it's -- >> i guess i should say at the this stage of the game this pops up almost out of nowhere. >> it shouldn't be lost to history yesterday when kerry made the suggestion, he was not making a suggestion. he was making a rhetorical point, which is to say assad will never do this. he wasn't putting an offer on the table. he wasn't suggesting this is an offer. sort of threw it out there. the state department was asked about it later in the day, said senator kerry's not proposing a plan, he's trying to make a rhetorical point. by the midafternoon, the white house had countermanhandled what the statement was saying and taken it in a different direction. >> because the syrians and the russians -- now they're responding to the syrians and the russians. >> there's this frantic -- when joe made the point earlier, and i generally tend not to want to go quite as far as joe does in saying this is amateur hour, yesterday to me looked like amateur hour where everyone is it improvising and everything is going on on the fly. it's a fluid situation.

to me, looking at 24 hours of yesterday, wherever we end up with this thing with the russians, whether it's to be taken seriously or not, senator mccain is -- hold on, joe. let me make the point. at this moment, everyone is desperately looking for an off ramp here. there's no one who wants this action. the people who are trying to get approval, the president doesn't want to do this, no one in congress really wants to do this. we're delaying the vote. everyone is trying to find some pretext to get off this freeway. >> coming up on "morning joe," could president obama's syria policy be nearly 100 years in the making? pulitzer prize-winning historian a. scott berg will be here to explain how it could all be connected to one of america's most influential former presidents. and up next, we'll be joined exclusively by white house press secretary jay carney. first, bill karins has a check on the forecast. bill? good tuesday morning to you, mika. people in central new york waking up to nasty storms that swept down over the top of lake

ontario and from ontario. a lot of lightning windows, too, oswego, watertown, syracuse. it's pouring through the new york state thruway. that drive from syracuse to albany probably the worst out there. about 1,500 lightning strikes in the last hour alone. yesterday the big thunderstorm was right over the top of denver. talk about impressive hailstorms, check out this. looks like a snow picture except for the green on the trees. some people even broke out the shovels in areas of the country. back to your forecast, as far as the storms in the northeast, they'll die out by the time they get to new york city, hartford, and boston. getting warmer, though. d.c. at 91, pittsburgh at 90. all of the hot air, very hot, 101 in des moines, some schools in illinois releasing early because it's going to be too hot. they don't have a.c. and don't want the kids in the dangerous classrooms with temperatures expected today once again mid to upper 90s. look at st. louis there, 98 degrees. all the hot air in the middle of country heading east for one more day of summer on the east coast and that will be your wednesday. st. louis, it's going to feel

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we're not going to war. we will not have people at risk in that way. we will be able to hold bashar al assad accountable without engaging in troops on the ground or any other prolonged kind of

effort, in a very limited, very targeted, very short-term effort that degrades his capacity to deliver chemical weapons without assuming responsibility for syria's civil war. that is exactly what we're talking about doing. unbelievably small, limited kind of effort. >> today secretary of state kerry said the strikes would be unbelievably small. what does that mean? i mean, are we talking a pin prick, a knockout blow, a punch in the gut? >> the u.s. does not do pin pricks. our military is the greatest the world has ever known, and when we take even limited strikes it has an impact on a country like syria that does not have a tremendous military capability. they have a tremendous military capability relative to civilians. they have a significant military capability relative to children who are being gassed. but they don't have a military

that matches up with ours in any kind of way. >> okay. 22 past the hour. just moments ago, syria announced it has accepted russia's proposal to turn over its chemical weapons and put them under international control. russia says it's now working with syria to work out details on the deal. so what does that development mean for the president's plan? joining us now from the white house, press secretary jay carney. john homman, nicole wallace and brian shakman are at the table. jay, given the latest developments, first of all, what's the white house response to that? and also with the american sentiment that we've been talking about all morning, what then is the goal tonight? >> well, mika, good morning, first of all. thank you for having me. what the president said last night reflect where is we are this morning. we see this as potentially a positive development. and we see it as a clear result of the pressure that has been put on syria by the fact that the president has been moving

forward and taking his proposal that we engage in limited strikes against syria in response to syria's use of chemical weapons against a civilian population. so he will go forward tonight and make the case to the american people as well as to congress as he has been that what happened on august 21st was a chemical weapons attack with terrible consequences, that it is undeniable the responsibility for that attack rests with the assad regime, and that the international community, in this case led by the united states, cannot stand by and allow that international prohibition against the use of chemical weapons to unravel before our eyes, because the consequences and the long term of that happening would be terrible for the region as well as for the world, including the united states. >> what if there isn't the support? what if there isn't the votes? there's been criticism along the way that there isn't a support in congress for a strike on syria and that there's been

hedging, weak leadership, damaging to our credibility. i'll take eugene robinson's question from earlier this morning. does the president believe he should strike syria or not? >> the president does believe that we need to take action in reaction to syria's blatant violation of this long-standing international prohibition against the use of chemical weapons. he's made that case. he also believes, because there is not an imminent threat to u.s. national security, and because his military commanders have told him that they are prepared to strike and that the strike's impact will not be significantly affected whether we do it right away or in a week or in a month, that we ought to go to congress because that's the way he believes the system ought to work and we ought to make the case to congress and congress ought to take action, vote, and authorize this strike. so, you know, remember, many,

many members of congress including those who signed a letter called on the president so ask congress to authorize. he is doing that. he understands that this is a very tough situation, a difficult vote where a country that is weary and wary of war after a dozen years of it, but he's going to make the case that this is not boots on the ground, it's not iraq, it's not afghanistan, it's not even libya, it's a limited focused strike that would seriously degrade assad's capabilities when it came to his potential to use chemical weapons in the future and certainly deter him from using them in the future. and let's be clear. what we're seeing with the russia proposal and the syrian reaction has only come about because of the threat of -- the credible threat of u.s. military action. before this morning, the syrian government had never even acknowledged they possessed chemical weapons. now they have. >> nicole wallace. >> hi, jay. >> hey, nicole. >> i have a near infinite capacity for sympathy for

spokespeople, particularly at the white house and on the eve of a very complicated -- >> it's a close-knit community, right, nicole? >> right. now, my real question is where are you guys drinking late at night to auk act whose principle was more off message, yours, mine, or his. but my question for you right now is can you at least understand that the perception of a message problem has contributed to the problems that you have in mustering the congressional votes, in rallying the public around you, to do simply what the president said he wanted to do? the president said he wanted to strike syria if they crossed the president's red line. do you understand why we all feel like there's a message problem? >> well, i understand that this is complicated business and that for most americans -- >> but wait. let me just stop because that's what you say when you think people are stupid, and the public, the public's not stupid. >> no, no, no. >> we get complicated. we get nuance.

people voted two times for a president who is nuanced on these issues. he's got a running room there. but he has been down right contradictory. do you at least accept responsibility for trying to improve message coming out of the administration? >> absolutely. i mean, we're out here -- i'm out here today, we're out here every day. the president gave six interviews yesterday. he'll speak to the american people tonight. and we're trying to make clear what we believe ought to happ , happen -- a ground troop-led invasion of a country designed to top al regime, which is what happened in iraq. this is completely different from that. but he understands clearly that both members of congress, as representatives of the american people, and the american people themselves, are wary of any engagement militarily in the middle east again, anywhere in the world, in fact, given what we've been through. so i accept that, you know, we need to get out there and make the case and make clear why this

is important, why there is a threat in the long term to the united states, to our troops in the future, if we and the rest of the world say it's okay for a dictator to gas his own people, to gas children in their bed. it's a horrible thing. i think it's important. i know you've shown them and others, the adults anyway, who are concerned with this issue, look at the videos, look at the evidence that's out there about what happened on august 21st in syria. >> john heilman? >> a two-part question for you. 24 hours ago i knew exactly what the president was going to be building support for in his speech tonight. is the thing that he was going to be building support for 24 hours ago the same thing he's going to be building support for tonight? and the second question is 24 hours from now, what will success look like? what are the tangible markers for success for you 24 hours from now? >> the answer to the first question is yes, he'll be building support for calling on congress as well as the american people to understand and support

the action that he's proposed. he will also, as he did last night in response to questions from network anchors, note that we have some potential progress on the diplomatic front because of the credible threat of u.s. military force with the russian proposal, which i want to make clear is something we have been discussing with the rugs. secretary kerry with his counterpart, foreign minister lavrov, and the president with president putin in st. petersburg just on friday. so this is the by-product of the push for action that the president has led. but, you know, you know how this works, john. we all think because we've heard the president speak and we've been following this and writing about it and talking about it that every american out there has heard the case, understands what happens, but most americans, because they're bitz si, you know, they understand that the president is calling for military action in syria, which sounds a lot like at first blush military action in iraq,

military action in afghanistan, and it's incumbent upon him to explain why this is not what we've seen in the past ten years. >> brian shakman. >> whether it was pressure in the white house or russians saying good idea, the syrians saying okay, give our audience a sense of the orlandoer of operations with this specific proposal. what happens next? >> well, we will engage and have been engaged in intense conversations with our friends and allies internationally about this process, about moving forward and testing the seriousness of the syrians when it comes to the potential for them giving up their chemical weapons stockpile, one of the -- >> are we going to send our own people in there for -- i mean, do we have any idea of the framework of what actually executing this would look like? >> we haven't got a plan with individuals attached to it yet. we need to make sure before hand that the syrians are serious and will actually follow through on a commitment to give up a chemical weapons stockpile that

they've been husbanding for decades against this international prohibition. they've refused to sign the chemical weapons convention for 20 years. they never acknowledged that they have these chemical weapons, even as they use them against their own people. so there is ample reason to be skeptical, but there's no question, as they've explicitly said, that they're taking this action or at least responding this way because they want to deter u.s. military action. so it is the threat, the credible threat of action by the united states that has brought about this potential diplomatic breakthrough. we have to be cautious but we have to follow through. >> jay, amidst all that, there is joe manchin and heidi's proposal which includes a 45-day extension. have you all considered that? who's talking about that? and how does that play into the big picture of all this? moo we're talking with leersd and rank-and-file members about timetables here. members of congress want to hear what the president has to say so the senate democrats will hear

from him today, and then again the president will speak to the nation tonight. and we're going to engage at every level with the members of congress. the president made clear last night this his interviews he understands this takes time, the congressional consideration of this authorization. so we don't have obviously an exact date by when the senate and the house might vote. we're going to continue to provide information and work with them to move the process forward. they still have a lot of questions understandably. many members of the house and the senate have yet to receive the classified briefing that provides significantly more detail about the case against assad and how we are so sure that he used these weapons. and that prosays tcess will con. meanwhile, we'll pursue the diplomatic avenue that's opened up. >> jay carney, thank you. full msnbc coverage of the president's address begins tonight at 8:00 eastern time. coming up next, his foreign policy ideas were the basis for

modern american wars. why president obama may be channeling woodrow wilson in his speech tonight. that's next. [ female announcer ] we lowered her fever. you raise her spirits. we tackled your shoulder pain. you make him rookie of the year. we took care of your cold symptoms. you take him on an adventure. tylenol® has been the number 1 doctor recommended brand of pain reliever for over 20 years. but for everything we do, we know you do so much more. tylenol®.

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36 past the hour. we continue the conversation on the options in syria with

pulitzer prize-winning author a. scott berg. his new book, "wilson," takes a look at the life of our 28th president, woodrow wilson. and there's a certain address that might ring true to today if you look at obama's -- i guess his concepts, if you can make sense of them right now. >> well, i think. i mean, this whole situation is quite amazing. it really goes directly back to the woodrow wilson administration. >> what are the parallels you draw? >> well, the first parallel i draw has to do with the foundation of american foreign policy, which began when woodrow wilson gave a speech on april 2nd, 1917, in which he asked the congress to bring us into world war i. and in essence he said the world must be made safe for democracy. so that has become really the bedrock of all american foreign policy ever since, which is what choices do we make? what moral obligations does the united states have to intervene eve wherein we may not have

necessarily obvious interests? >> and that is an interesting question today because moral obligations i think have been put into question given the blood and treasure and so much that we have lost trying to -- trying to exercise our moral obligati obligations, are they not? whether they were on faulty intelligence or not. that was the point of our action, was it not? >> absolutely right. and there's -- there's never a direct line -- >> and where have we come out of it all? >> well, that is the question. well, again, it boils down to an obligation. do you feel that moral component. what i've tried to do writing about woodrow wilson to show how his own personal feelings infused what became national feelings and the international repercussions. >> do you feel like the public is losing its sense of this history of who we are, that we

are this beacon of hope and of defense, of democracy? do you feel like now the public is sort of going, yeah, on the one hand, on the other hand? >> i think we have no sense of history, anything that happened more than five years ago might have happened 200 years ago. we could be talking about the punic wars today, in essence. in terms of woodrow wilson, what i love that is going on today, however, and this is where obama has been very wilson-like for the first time i think in a while, is that he's encouraging this conversation, a national conversation. woodrow wilson, whenever there was an issue, especially foreign affairs, he brought it right to the congress. he would go down there. he called 25 joint sessions of congress during his administration. he sat in a little room in the senate called the president's room, which is just feet away from the senate floor where he would just grab senators as they walked out. he would sit there four or five

times a week and just have conversations with these people. so there was sustained dialogue all the time. so i like that president obama is engaging with the legislature here. >> i see the parallels you're drawing, but aren't there differences too? >> well, i think there are some huge differences. >> that may be insurmountable? >> well, what do you have in mind? >> i have in mind that there are people right now who are still reeling from our losses in afghanistan, who have lost brothers, fathers, mothers, wives, and who are dealing with posttraumatic stress disorder, families who have been torn apart from our engagement in iraq and from the sense that nobody really cares, from vietnam. i mean, there's precedent in our recent past that is saying please, please, stop. don't do it again. >> you're absolutely right. in a way, it was a bigger leap wilson had to make in 1919 when we were a perfectly happy, isolationist country, we were

not being attacked per se. some americans were losing their lives as the germans were torpedoing the lusitania and other ships. but wilson had to make the giant leap of convincing this isolationist country that there is this obligation that is bigger than a national interest, that may be a human interest. where do human rights enter? a take no stand here today. mst this is something that will endlessly be debated. >> wilson was ultimately successful. do you see, as a student of his history and his effort and the times, do you see obama on a trajectory for success or failure? >> well, let's see tonight. i mean, wilson was successful largely because of his rhetoric. he was the greatest orator of his day. >> right. >> they say barack obama is the great orator of the day. so let's see how effective he is, in fact. what i like, however, is that there's fluidity to the situation. a week ago, who knew that russia and syria would be having this

conversation we're talking about now? wilson was always very big on taking things slowly so that things might unfold that you had not expected. >> another parallel. book is "wilson." a. scott berg, thank you so much. this looks terrific. congratulations. up next, breaking news from the business world where there's a major shake-up to the companies that make up the dow jones. michelle ka brosseau cabrera joins us ahead. i love having a free checked bag

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michelle caruso-cabrera, or as we affectionately call her, mcc. a lot to cover. tell us about the changes in the dow jones industrial average. one head scratcher here, and tell me if you can pinpoint it for me. >> i think they're all -- i'm thinking you think nike is a head scratcher. you think it's too small. there's thee new companies going into the dow jones industrial average -- nike, visa, and everybody's favorite wall street firm, goldman sachs. you can only put 30 stocks in the dow jones industrial average. that's how they contrive it. so they're taking out hewlett-packard, alcoa, they make aluminum, and bank of america. was that the head scratcher? >> no, because nike is small and it's sort of retailish. visa is big and it's a huge pulse of the american economy. why do you balance bank of america putting goldman? bank of america, one-two punch with jpmorgan, the big e banks in this country. goldman sachs, half the size almost. that didn't make a lot of sense to me. >> because they do it based on share price also. and so if you look at boa share price, it's off the lows but

it's still fairly low compared to where goldman sachs is has recovered far more dramatically from the financial crisis. >> it's a price-weighted index. i want to point out to mika and everybody else the s&p 500 what most traders look at more than the dow. the dow more for publications and for regular people to talk about. >> it's the oldest so everybody kind of knows about it, but the s&p 500 called the s&p 500 because it has 500 stocks. so it's much more reflective of the overall economy and the global economy, whereas the dow jones industrial average only 30 and they tend to be the big, big names, which is why you questioned nike. >> quickly, we know what we've been saying about syria. what does the market think will happen? >> the market thinks we will not bomb syria. it's very clear. the rally over the last several days. when kerry made his first statement, the market dropped dramatically. right? every time it looked like we were going to bomb, the market has moved in tarn dem with that. it is clear this face-saving

diplomatic solution is likely based on the market's view to happen because they see there's no tolerance for any kind of attack. congress certainly doesn't want to vote on it either. >> does apple still generate the same sort of excitement? >> sure it does, brian. we're going to be wall to wall. apple is holding a big event, two new phone, one is going to be a typical high-end phone, a new generation of that. they'll introduce a less expensive phone. it will come in different colors. this is what the reporting indicates, at least. the reason they're doing a cheaper phone is partly because they want to go to the emerging market where is people are poorer, they can't afford very expensive phones, not going to have as much functionality, but in places where there isn't a lot of wireless broadband, you know, you weren't going to use that functionality anyways. so it's going to be cheaper. we're still going to see what the actual pricing will be. >> what does cheaper mean now? come on now. what is it google? they have a phone for a hundred

bu bucks. does everything. >> i don't know about you, but somehow whatever price is on the phone, it's always about $400 more when you go to the checkout stand at apple. >> lose one, break one. all right. >> she's still just getting on twitter, so -- >> nicole needs a tech balance. >> i hate technology. i want hard cover books, anymy newspaper against my fingers. >> someone needs to take you to the apple store, teach you how to use twitter. ? hate it. makes me mat. >> okay now. cnbc's michelle caruso-cabrera, thank you so much. up next, today is primary day for the new york city mayoral race. and anthony weaner is not going away quietly. i don't even know how to describe this interview. you have to see it. it is can't-miss. is this the bacon and cheese diet? this is the creamy chicken corn chowder. i mean, look at it. so indulgent. did i tell you i am on the... [ both ] chicken pot pie diet! me too! [ male announcer ] so indulgent, you'll never believe they're light.

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anthony weiner continues to say he'll be the next mayor of new york city. last night lawrence o'donnell had just one question for him. >> what is wrong with you? >> i don't understand the question. what is wrong with me that i care so much about the issues that i fight for every day, that i have my entire career? >> no. what i mean is this -- what is wrong with you that you cannot seem to imagine a life without elective office? >> that's ridiculous. >> there is something wrong with

you. >> you just said that. repeating it doesn't make it any more interesting. >> i'm looking at your life. i'm looking at your -- >> i appreciate it. >> -- relentless pursuit, relentless about certain things in your life. >> i took time off from government. >> you didn't. try to go out there and do some good. >> you don't like the way i -- >> try to do some good, somewhere, anywhere in the world. >> lawrence. >> where you didn't make money. >> chillax, buddy. dial it down a second. do you want to ask me a question? or just the split screen? this can't be good tv for anybody. >> we have about 20 seconds. here's what i'd like to do. >> give me ten of them. >> i'd like you to stay stai if you will and we'll continue this online and you can say whatever you want. >> i love being harangued online. nobody watches the show. >> you can say whatever you want online. >> it's been great doing a split screen harangue with you,

lawrence. >> find out if anthony weiner sticks around. >> thank you! good night, lawrence! >> two things. that was good television. and chillax i never heard of that. >> never? >> chillax? >> never heard that? >> it's like a cheesy word that 11-year-old boys use. >> you ever heard chillax? >> chill out and relax, mika. >> it sounds like a pill i would like. >> exactly. >> you're going to need it after your anti-technology rant. psychotic rant. >> up next, what if anything have we learned today? a restaurant dinner is over $10.50 per meal.

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what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button? time to talk about what we learned today. john heilman. >> i learned that we're going to miss anthony weiner when he's finally gone, if he's ever gone, if he ever leaves, we will miss him. >> but if you want a little more, he did speak online afterward. >> he did? took the challenge? >> yeah. you can go to "the last word" and check it out online. >> did lawrence chillax? >> i don't know. i can't believe that word. >> have another drink. >> i get it. all right. nicole wallace, what did you

learn today? >> i learned that lawrence has still got it, that flair for drama. >> that was pretty good timing. that does it for us. if it's way too early, it's "morning joe." now time for "the daily rundo " rundown." of course we're in washington tonight for the president's speech and the show will be live in d.c. tomorrow. have a great day, everybody. pre pressing the pause button on the syrian strike. the assad regime accepts russia's proposal to place syria's chemical weapons under international control. and as president obama prepares to address the nation to want, our brand-new "wall street journal" poll shows a war-weary public having their own red line on syria. and after opening the door to that plan b or is it plan c, secretary kerry will be back on capitol hill this morning where members of congress are hoping against hope for an escape hatch. good morning from cambridge, massachusetts.