>> as i sat and listened to ms. rice tell me about how the ground shook and she felt it in her church two miles away, i thought about how no one would have thought she would have grown to be the secretary of state. we'll never know what those four girls would have been if they lived. that's why we must stop hate. that's why we must use the law to justly protect young people. thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. russian roulette. let's play "hardball." ♪ good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. president obama stands at the abyss tonight. he stands precariously close to losing control of a vital presidential decision. he said he wants to punish syria

for using chemical weapons. he's asked congress to give him the backing to do it. but he doesn't have that backing and now he himself is backing away from asking for it. he's waiting, it's said, to find out what the russians will do to organize the collection of syria's chemical weapons. so how long will he wait? how long will he forestall taking action asking congress to back him in taking action before he decides the russians and their allies the syrians are simply playing for time? running through the calendar until americans don't have the passion to commit an active retaliati retaliation. this is where he faces the abyss. if he gets stranded out there waiting for vladimir putin to save the day, we have to watch the days being peeled off the calendar one day after painful day. will he have to wait for the phone to ring for vladimir? and when will we know for sure that putin was playing him? or know for sure he's not? msnbc will provide, of course,

full coverage of president obama's speech to the country tonight beginning at 8:00 eastern time when i'll be joining rachel maddow. chuck todd is nbc news political director and correspondent. and david axelrod is former senior adviser to president obama and of course an msnbc political analyst. it all started with an offhanded comment from john kerry and has snow balled into a russian proposal that could give the president a way out of the political mess over syria. russia says it is proposing syria turn over the chemical weapons to an international monitor to avoid a strike. in other words, right now the president's best hope might be vladimir putin, not the u.s. congress. today that effort hit a few road blocks. american friends want the threat to remain on the table. the russians want that military threat off the table. john kerry will meet with the russian foreign minister lavrov later this week in geneva to try to resolve the question. this may offer a way out for

everyone. but of course the hard core hawks who want to change the momentum in syria. one explanation for why russians and syrians would go for this is if they think the assad regime can win anyway without chemical weapons. well, secretary of state john kerry today gave credit for the russian turnaround to the president's threat of military action. >> this cannot be a process of delay. this cannot be a process of avoidan avoidance. it has to be real. it has to be measurable, tangible. and it is exceedingly difficult, i want everybody here to know, to fulfill those conditions. a lot of people say that nothing focuses the mind like the propepr prospect of a hanging. well, it's the credible threat of force that has been on the table for these last weeks that has for the first time brought this regime to even acknowledge that they have a chemical weapons arsenal. >> let's go right now -- that

was a nice quote from samuel johnson there. let's go to the prospects deal. i want to be positive tonight and hopeful because there seems to be one way through moscow. let me ask you this, chuck, as a reporter. do you think the russians may be serious? because there's all kinds of historic reasons they would be serious. they want the regime of assad to survive. they don't want more islamist terrorists taking over in that region. they want to hold onto their proxy and ports. they don't want more crazy people -- islamist zealots heading into the former soviet union. >> you just laid it out. there is a rational argument as to why would trussians be serios here? why would they convince syrians to do this? simple. they've come to the conclusion that syria could do this without chemical weapons. and if they don't, they could degrade the military to a point where they won't survive. it seems to me it's obvious what

the russians decided to do and what the syrians have also decided to do. which is this is the best path they have for that regime surviving. now, you wonder how's that going to play out right now? the most unhappy people politically it's been stunning to me that so many members of congress, many of whom do not have a single nice thing to say about vladimir putin over the last two years, have rushed -- they're not walking toward putin's plan. they have run to it all because none of them -- they all can look at their polls. none of them wanted to cast this vote. a lot of them didn't want to even -- they were republicans. nobody really wanted to embarrass the presidency, embarrass america in foreign policy by somehow having to reject this request by the president. but they were feeling the political pressure. they saw an escape hatch and they flocked to it like as fast as i've ever seen anything change, frankly, particularly on foreign policy like this.

but you have to wonder here the most unhappy and disgruntled people right now are the syrian rebels who now are staring at the prospect. they have no shot. this is it. they have no chance. u.s. government's made this decision. we're staying out. >> let me ask david because you were in contact with him. let me ask you the tough question. could the president see beyond those personal snubs and sort of strange behaviors or unpleasant behaviors of vladimir putin to see the larger russian interest that might be at work that would benefit the united states here? >> yeah. my impression of their relationship as well, it's not friendly at all. it's pragmatic. there are things on which we work with with the russians and, you know, this whole idea surfaced apparently at a conversation between putin and obama on friday. and chris, i would say your entire list is relevant to why the russians may want to get this done. including the fact that if assad

does fall, they don't want those chemical weapons in the hands of those very terrorists that you think -- that you suggest could head into their territories. so there is an impetus for them to get this done. there are tremendous stumbling blocks to this and the big one is the one you mentioned. which is there is -- without a credible threat behind this, there is an invitation to chicanery. and if the syrians play games and string this out and there's no mechanism for enforcing it, then it's not really a very good offer. >> let me ask you david while you're on, that is the catch 22 here. at the same moment we're looking to the russians, the government is, as a possible hope here for cutting this deal so we don't have to go to an act of war against syria. at the same time the russians are saying you have to remove the threat of military strike or we're not doing business. >> well, yeah. and that's something that has to be resolved. but of course the president was prepared to move forward before.

i think he'll say tonight that he continues to be prepared to move forward. and one of the arguments he's going to make tonight is the reason we are at this place is because of the threat of military action. now, as to -- >> but congress has to give him that threat. do you think the senate and the house are still potentially ready to give the president the authority to use military power? >> there's another way to look at this which is now there is something on the table. there is -- you know, give peace a chance sort of option here. and you saw, you know, two of the people who were opposed to this in the senate were already drafting before this surfaced legislation that said give them 45 days to sign the convention. and give up their chemical weapons. then we'll give them authority. so i think there are a lot of turns of the wheel here. but there's no doubt that right now the vote is on pause.

>> yeah. let's take a look at this. chuck, the new nbc poll which we're proud of that you introduced this morning on your program, it shows the situation -- the unpopularity of a strike against syria. 58% -- that's a hard number -- now say they do not want their members of congress to vote against that resolution. that's a strong number and it's rising. >> it is. this is across channels has been about syria over the last ten days. from when we first went in back before labor day until now. and the numbers on syria got worse for the president. his handling of the situation went from a very bad 35% to a horrible 29%. you don't get approval -- that's not -- that number is terrible under any circumstances sitting in the 20s having an approval rating on that in anything. and i think it goes to a couple of things, chris.

number one, there is a default position in this country now of just no more wars. the iraq scars are deep. number two, there is deep skepticism of government in general these days. i think that plays into the idea that whatever they're all announcing, you know what? everybody's thinking well, they say this. but do we really know this is the case? and then, you know, three, the message from the white house has been totally muddled. it's been a bit haphazard. look at how the last week has gone. everybody understands that folts this closely that this is a mess. there are no good options. but that's not a message to the american public that's going about their everyday lives taking their kids to school and thinking, wait. what are we doing? and all they've heard is the drum beats to war. >> well, chuck todd and david axelrod, thank you for that. you started the show well tonight. we now know the political situation. coming up, will today's events change the thought on

capitol hill? barbara boxer and susan collin will join us on everything that happened with the russians and whether it will change votes up there. i'm skeptical. also it may go too far to say barack obama's presidency rides on the success of his speech tonight. but it does have a lot to do -- and he has a lot on the line tonight. is there anything he can say to convince the american people that attacking syria is a good idea? the white house is already pushing back saying don't expect this to change public opinion tonight. plus jeb bush was supposed to give hillary clinton a big hug tonight, an award in philly. now he's backed out. he's just going to sit in the crowd. i got to think that the republicans got to jeb bush. like every other republican, scared to death of the right. and let me finish tonight with the american verdict that led to where we are tonight. the decision to say no to an act of war. the american people don't want to commit. this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ [ male announcer ] 1.21 gigawatts. today, that's easy.

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president obama is going to have his work cut out for him tonight. according to the nbc news/wall street journal poll today 74% said it's time to focus on problems at home. only 22% said the u.s. should continue to promote democracy in other countries. by the way, just 19% of republicans said we should focus on promoting democracy. in 2005 when george w. bush was president, the number was 60%. we'll be right back. any last requests mr. baldwin? do you mind grabbing my phone and opening the capital one purchase eraser? i need to redeem some venture miles before my demise.

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got to see whether or not this has any meat to it. if it does have meat, i think that's important. >> so, again, following up on -- >> the senate has already delayed. >> because they don't have the votes, mr. secretary. that's why they delayed. you know that. >> actually, no, i don't. >> well, i do. >> well, i'm glad you know something. i think this is not -- you know, this should not be a political discussion about whether there are votes or not. >> i'm not being political, mr. secretary. it's the truth.

they don't have the votes. read any newspaper in this country and you will find that out. >> look. do you want to play politics here or get a policy in place? >> welcome back to "hardball." that was of course representative e. jeff miller in a heated exchange with secretary kerry today. his comments as callus as they were underscore a harsh reality for president obama. americans don't want to intervene in syria. senator majority leader harry reid has put a hard stop on movement in the senate. after meeting with the president, reid said he's in no rush to force the action. >> if something can be done diplomatically, i'm totally satisfied with that. i'm not a blood and thunder guy. i'm not for shock and awe. i think it's a situation where we have to be calm and deliberate in what we do. and if things can be worked out with international community to

get these weapons ou out of the hands of this madman, that's what we should do. >> with the resolution dead in congress and a group of eight senators including john mccain and chuck schumer are crafting a new road map with the hopes of attracted broader support. a source familiar with negotiations tells nbc news u.n. should pass resolution saying kem cap weapons were used in syria. also says the u.n. should remove those weapons in a fixed period of time. if that doesn't happen, it would authorize president obama to strike. however, convincing congress to authorize any sort of military involvement abroad will be a tough sell right now even amongst the president's allies here. a new n bbz poll saz we should be more focused on problems at home. no matter how you slice it, this is one tough sell for president obama. senator barbara boxer is a democrat from california and has

supported the possible military involvement in syria. she's a senior member of the senate foreign relations committee. she met with the president earlier today. senator boxer, your view about where this thing stands right now? there's not going to be a vote on cloture, a vote to move ahead in the senate, so what's the future look like in terms of syria and whether or not we're going to attack? >> chris, we had many votes to move forward. but i think the right thing to do is to look at the developments of today. now, i have listened carefully to your whole setup piece and all of your guests. and no one talked about what assad did to his people. it seems to be, you know, the politics. and i want to take just ten seconds to say that what assad did is he used these vicious weapons that have been outlawed essentially since after world war i and he killed his own people. babies, infants, children.

and the whole world has to look at this and respond. now, i give the president tremendous credit for two things. making sure the world remembered its commitments. we passed the chemical weapons convention in the united states senate. don't our votes mean anything, chris? so i think he was strong and he was resolute. and as a result for the first time today and this was glossed over, the first time in history syria admitted it has a stockpile. and said they would join the chemical weapons convention. do we believe that they will do all of that? we need a few days to see. but this was a good day for this president. and it came about because he was so resolute. if i could just say, bob menendez and bob corka of the foreign relations committee of which i serve, we passed that forced resolution. and i think that brought us to this moment where we have a hope here that we can resolve this in

a way that doesn't require military force. that's what this president wants. and it's what everybody wants. i think. >> well, the credibility of military force rests on the ability of the president to get congress to go along with it. you said you have the votes. i think you said the votes for cloture to move ahead. did you have the votes to pass the resolution in the senate? >> i think that was a work in progress. today, chris, the president visited the democratic caucus, the republican caucus. and i can tell you before he walked in the door, we watched those films. and i looked around at my colleagues and i can tell you i don't know what the vote would be, but i know there's a group of republicans working together with a group of democrats right now making sure we keep the pressure on assad. we keep the pressure on assad, something good can happen. but we're going to need a few days. so i think it's very wise of the president to say let's see how this plays out. we've got multi-tracks going on. at the u.n., with lavrov and

kerry, the president working with the french and the brits and others, and right here in the united states senate a bipartisan group keeping the pressure on. and if we do that, we could have a good resolution here that doesn't require military force which, again, is what we all want including this president. >> thank you so much. we turn now to susan collins of maine. she's leaning i'm told against military intervention. is that where you are, senator collins? >> yes, it is. i certainly senator boxer's concern about the use of chemical weapons. there actually have been, however, 100,000 people killed in the syrian civil war. and there frankly are bad guys on both sides. hezbollah supporting the ruthless dictator assad. and then two branches of al

qaeda that have infiltrated the opposition. but my concern is that i don't want to see our country dragged into yet another civil war in the middle east and become entangled in what would be a protracted, dangerous, and ugly conflict. >> where is the main electorate of people at home? where do they stand on this issue? >> they're overwhelmingly opposed. i've heard from people from all walks of life, democrats, independents, republicans, green party members. and it's running something like 95% against. now, i've also learned a lot from my constituents. they've been very thoughtful about this issue. and they're following it very closely. and they're very concerned. >> how do you think the russians

will react if they fully realize that the president did not have the senate behind him? did not have the american people behind him in terms of the use of force. will they then continue with their effort that they've offered to try to get the chemical weapons out of the hands of assad? >> i think that we should not necessarily trust the russians, but see how this plays out. because i think it's in the russians' own self-interest to prevent the further use of chemical weapons. they do not want to see a proliferation of chemical weapons in the region or get to the chechen opposition in russia. so i think that russia is making what may well be a genuine effort here. and certainly a diplomatic solution where the chemical stockpile is removed from syria would be both more effective and

preferable to our launching a military strike, which is, after all, an act of war. >> you think we should get out of syria altogether and stop arming the rebels? if the russians agree to get the syrians to pull out, get rid of the chemical weapons, wouldn't it be a good idea for us to say like back in the cuban missile crisis where kennedy cut the deal to invade. stay out of there. i don't think mccain would like that. what would you like? would you like that? we stay out if you pull out the chemicals. >> it's worth considering, but it's a difficult situation. if we'd intervene very early on to train and equip the opposition, we would have known who we were dealing with. >> good point. >> now the opposition is totally infiltrated and also includes a criminal gangs as well. so i think it becomes very

difficult to sort out who are the good guys here. >> thanks so much. senator susan collins of maine. thanks for coming on "hardball." up next, what do cheerios have to do with the war in syria? the sideshow will tell you coming up next. this is "hardball," the place for politics. a writer and a performer. ther, i'm also a survivor of ovarian and uterine cancers. i even wrote a play about that. my symptoms were a pain in my abdomen and periods that were heavier and longer than usual for me. if you have symptoms that last two weeks or longer,

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you can find it all on angie's list. we found riley at the shelter, and found everything he needed at angie's list. join today at angieslist.com pbs host charlie rose aired an interview with syrian president bashar al assad. when asked why he picked pbs assad said they are fair and unbiased and i want one of those neat tote bags. >> that was of course jimmy fallon on charlie rose's one on one with assad. it was an interesting glimpse into the mind of the dictator. some of the answers were surprising, some more

predictable. here's how the daily show portrayed it. >> assad sat down with charlie rose over the subject. and i'll tell you what. i'm just going to write down what i think he's going to say about us bombing him. >> we're dealing with difficult circumstances for a year and a half. it's going to get worse with any strike or stupid war. >> oh, he's against it. i had down please bomb me. >> yesterday john kerry faced pushback after describing a proposed u.s. attack on syria as unbelievably small. but there was another odd characterization that you may have missed. an unidentified source in the pentagon compared the effect of a limited strike by us to eating breakfast. quote, if assad is eating cheerios, we're going to take away his spoon and give him a fork. will that degrade his ability to eat cheerios? yes. will it deter him? maybe. but ooel still be able to eat cheerios.

while this created the new york magazine to create this image, the quote was met with criticism from many who point out making war is not at all similar to eating cheerios. when asked to comment, cereal maker general mills said they had nothing to add. finally our sideshow trivia question. who was the first u.s. president to visit syria? eight months after the yom ki purr war. this president was able to normize relationships between our two countries despite a shaky start. take a look. >> president nixon flew to damascus, syria, today. and the president's plain took evasive action when syrian jets unexpectedly appeared but they were there as escorts and there was no trouble. >> the president and mrs. nixon were greeted at the airport by mr. and mrs. assad. this stop represents the american hope that the psychological climate in this part of the world can be changed.

so that fighting does not seem inevitable and that peace will appear possible. >> we look forward now to an expansion in contacts and cooperations between the united states and syria. president assad and i have agreed that ambassadors will be named within two weeks. >> is now, there was a deal maker. those were different times, of course. hoping we'll see similar cooperation from syria. congrats to lady goodman who answered correctly on twitter. up next, jeb bush we're told was to honor hillary clinton today. but republicans weren't happy and he changed his mind. you're watching "hardball," president. you have the it cards your first time missing a payment, so there's no late fee. really? yep! so is your husband off the hook? no. he went out for milk last week and came back with a puppy. hold it. hold it. hold it. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. get the it card with late payment forgiveness. [ male announcer ] that's why there's ocuvite to help replenish key eye nutrients.

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here's what's happening. congressional leaders john

boehner, nancy pelosi, mitch mcconnell are set to meet thursday morning about how to keep the government funded. meanwhile republicans will push ahead with their own bill. two guards are on leave after ariel castro's suicide. and the congressional medal was awarded to the four girls killed in birmingham, alabama, 50 years ago. back to "hardball." ♪ welcome back to "hardball." while all eyes are being trained right now on the nation's capitol where the president is speaking in washington, there's political action taking place in the original capital, my own philadelphia. that's where we'd expect to get an early glimpse of a potential 2016 matchup. jeb bush was to present the liberty medal to former secretary of state hillary clinton tonight. here's the press release to the

national constitution center announcing that. governor jeb bush will award the prestigious medal to secretary clinton during the 25th annual liberty medal ceremony. as recently as yesterday "the washington post" said he would present the medal as the center's chairman. big but. did not react to the possible nominee of the republican party to the possible democratic nominee. if jub bush didn't want to run for the republican nomination, he could have just said so. on town hall website, it says how about we give hillary a medal. late today we learned although jeb bush would make remarks and be on stage, he will not present clinton with the award. looks like 2016's maneuverings have begun. joining me is the former chair of the republican national

committee michael steele. and jess macintosh. i'll get to you in a minute, jess, because i have to go to the home team of the republican party. is your party so touchy, so precious that they dare not even lend a hand to giving hillary an award for past public service? >> it's a good way to get your hand cut off. i don't know why. when i first heard about this, i thought brilliant. this is a great opportunity to -- >> it's called class. >> absolutely. in his capacity as the head of the board of trustees to do this, the politics aside all of that aside, i think it would have been a classy thing to do. but clearly the politics of 2016 weighs in. i'm sure some folks whispered in his ear about the photo op. it's not a good photo op. it will be played over and over again in a republican primary. which is unfortunate. you're going to have to do battle with hillary clinton one way or the other. a photo is not going to hurt

that if you're presenting a good strategy. i think this is a missed opportunity. >> i don't know if you want to get into the partisan politics of this, but looks like the jack in the box called benghazi. the ones republicans love to bring up like an old vaudville act. they don't want to give her the award because they want to be able to say that somehow she was bad as secretary of state. which nobody else agrees with. but the right certainly says so. >> exactly. i think that clearly the most partisan republicans are so terrified of hillary clinton they can't see straight. i completely agree with michael it would have been a classy moment. she's being honored for her work on behalf of women and girls around the globe. it would have been a really nice moment for leaders of both parties to recognize how important that work is. and it's a shame that this petty partisan politics got in the way. and it's a shame that they got in the way of that. voters are going to see -- >> who are the republicans going

to give an award to -- i don't think that's a competitive event. women and children around the world, who would you think as a republican candidate? >> i think there will be a number of folks including jeb bush, that's why this is ironic. he is the kind of leader who could stand on that world stage and be the recipient of an award like that. >> it's a metaphor for standing up to interest groups, standing up to your people. >> this is one of those moments. because you have the cover of your official duties as the board of trustee president. so, you know, i just think -- >> earlier jeb bush made light of the 2016 speculation about him and secretary clinton. it's certainly true in both cases. they're both possible candidates. hillary more likely, i think. let's listen. >> secretary clinton is out of office. so am i. i'm not sure what people will expect to have happen here tonight. hillary and i come from

different political parties and we disagree about a few things, but we do agree on the wisdom of the american people. especially those in iowa and new hampshire and south carolina. in fact, i think secretary clinton might be in des moines next week. now, don't actually wear the medal there, madam secretary. >> this, i think, is what's really different in politics from when i was working in it. jess, this idea that you can't even be seen with the other side. chris christie is attacked. you can't be seen even driving in the same car, walking down the street together. you can't give an award that has nothing to do with politics. >> this is the problem with the republican party right now. it's why we had such historic margins in 2012. frankly, i think the average republican voter probably is really supportive of the work that hillary clinton did that she's being honored for tonight. i think that would be something that speaks to a lot of the

republican especially women who are feeling left out by their party. >> we've got an opportunity to go now to secretary of state. here she is. >> being in a line of previous awardees, nelson mandela, so many others whom i have long admired. i want to thank everyone who spoke in person or in the videos. i appreciate greatly what they have done with me, what they've taught me, how we've worked together, and the inspiration that they have been to me. i want to thank my friend mayor nutter for hosting us in this beautiful city. >> hillary clinton would have given an award to jeb bush. jess, would you support hillary clinton giving an award to jeb bush in the same occasion tonight? >> absolutely. i think it would be the classy thing to do to honor that kind of work. i think that's the kind of leadership that she's known for.

people expect her to be the kind of leader who can work across the aisle. that's why she's globally recognized. i think it would have been in keeping with her history to do something like that. but as you pointed out, i'm not sure there is someone on the other side of the aisle who could be receiving such an award today. >> let's go to you michael. you know politics as well as any of us. i think hillary clinton will have a competitive race if she's the nominee. i think 2016 because one party has been in power eight years. but once a party held on for eight years, it's hard to hold on. >> i think she will have a competitive race. i think you'll see martin o'malley should he get in -- >> i'm just talking about the general. >> i'm talking about the step up to that. being that progressive voice on the left wanting to push hillary a bit. >> there will be somebody there. >> but i think in a general election whether it's against a rand paul, chris christie, or jeb bush, i think she would be very competitive. i think she would have to make a case to the american people.

because you'd have to deal first with the well, is this a flashback to the '90s? >> that's a problem with bush too. >> and benghazi. how that gets played out politically still remains to be seen. it won't be a cake walk, but i think she'll be competitivcompe. >> jess, i think the womens move, they say it's our turn. >> i agree. >> i think it goes beyond personality. thank you so much. we'll have you on many times to talk about that. michael steele, thanks. and thanks jess mcintosh. when we come back, trying to take the country to war when the american people say no. the president had no said to him. we'll be back on the place for politics. as your life changes, fidelity is there for your personal economy, helping you readjust along the way, refocus as careers change and kids head off to college,

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well, the president may be focused on syria, but that hasn't stopped republicans from playing their favorite parlor game. pretending to defund the affordable care act. ted cruz, of course, was among the speakers who addressed a rally on capitol hill today. he told the crowd inaccurately it's the number one job killer in america. he said he was fighting to save the country. among the other usual tea party suspects who spoke at the rally were senators rand paul and mike lee. and many members of congress including steve king, louie gohmert, and of course soon to be forgotten michele bachmann. what a jamboree that was. we'll be right back. clay.

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the people aren't with you. >> well, not yet. as i said, i understand that. so i'll have a chance to talk to the american people directly tomorrow. i don't expect that it's going to suddenly swing the polls wildly in the direction of another military engagement. if you ask the average person including my household, do we need another military engagement? i think the answer generally is going to be no. i'll speak to the american people. i'll explain this is not iraq. this is not afghanistan. this is not even libya. we're not talking about boots on the ground. we're not talking about sustained air strikes. but i knew when i said i was going to present this to

congress that this would be challenging. >> we're back. and that was president obama speaking to scott pelley in one of the half dozen interviews he did yesterday pushing the need for military force in syria. in a little over an hour, he will speak to the american people. the unexpected last minute diplomatic move on the table, he will news use of force while acknowledging that an avenue of diplomacy is still possible. joining me right now howard fineman and jonathan capehart. of course you're much bigger than a columnist. you probably write editorials. howard, how does he give two speeches at the same time? welcoming the russians into a diplomatic route with no gun fire. statement saying we need our guns loaded and got to get approval to do that. how do you do both? >> i think it's very difficult.

and i think the speech writers are working up to the last minute. we've covered these types of things. i've never seen a situation like this where they're scribbling on the back of the envelope before he walks speech. he said in the interview with scott pelley, what this is not. what this is not. not this. not that. not that. not that. he has got to say tonight what it is. and as you say, it is very much in conflict. >> he has been zig-zagging -- >> he has got to do all the zigs, zags. >> that created a blur. how does he get rid of the blur? >> he has got to show he is in charge. he looked like a cork bobbing on diplomatic seas, number one. number two, yes, chemical weapons are serious. we are prepared, still prepared to use military means to get rid of them. >> if he has congressional approval. >> will go to the u.n. the problem. they draft the new resolution that will say, first go to the u.n. if that doesn't work. we authorize the president to strike. i'm not convinced that

resolution can pass either. >> i don't think so. >> i think the president has been very clear on what he wants to do. he wants to hold bashar al assad responsible and accountable for using chemical weapons against his own people. that's been the narrow definition of what he wants to do and what he has been trying to do. things have changed since he gave the interview to scott pelley and savannah guthrie, and with john kerry in london. >> what does he want to say? >> i think the speech will be rather simple. that is -- we have got this diplomatic solution that is under way. we are going to let that process work. we are working with the russians, french, british, international community to hold him accountable. if this doesn't work -- then we will go, we will continue to push for military action against bashar al assad. >> how so? through congress? the u.n.? >> he said he wants to go through congress. i think he has to go through both. he has to hold the threat of military action over assad's head or it won't work.

>> the difficulty is i agree with you. in one sense, folks had chemical weapons it is simple. he has got to be a credible military threat in and of himself. in order for this to work he has got to be able to say, you know what, this is at the core of american national security interests. that by the way is what he said behind closed doors to senators from both parties today. >> privately he said this is the core national security interest of the united states. the message there being -- if i still feel that it is our national security interest to do this, i can have the constitutional authority to do it. i will do it. >> okay. the opposite what he said, jonathan. he said the other day the reason he went to congress because it doesn't involve immediate threat to the united states. it is our prens puinciple. policing the ban on chemical weapons here? >> the international norm. >> that's not a threat to the united states. >> it is a threat to the united states in that if the united states does not act, or international community does not act, then other actors around the world who have access to, who might have access to

chemical weapons and then they use it then, what do we do? and as if the united states let this, let assad do what he did without repercussion. that's how it -- >> people don't agree. that's the fundamental thing, you are not mentioning. >> 21st century answer to the domino theory. >> okay. >> american people don't buy connection between the evil of chemical war. they will see the pictures tonight. they don't see connection between that evil and us going in and blowing up factories and killing people. they dent son't see that. >> the white house is conceding tonight before the president's speech that they don't think it is going to change any mind. >> an acknowledgement. >> big acknowledgement right there. what that means, this is a diplomatic show now on the air that the american people are listening in on. this is less about convincing the american people tonight than it is convincing the russians

and the syrians that we still will take military action. >> how do you do that? meet the russian demand. we withdraw the threat of military action. at the same team use it. withdraw it, the russians say withdraw fundamental military action. you say we need it as a hammer? >> has the united states responded to putin's reap quequ? >> if we don't, if we keep threatening will he work with the syrians? >> you mean putin? >> yeah. look, putin. >> the catch-22. >> the catch 22. putin makes demand. the united states has to hold firm. look we are not taking it off the table. keep in mind the reason we are talking about vladamir putin and what he is doing with the syrians to come up with diplomatic solution is precisely because president obama made the threat that he was going to use military action. >> further irony. that's true. at the same time, the reason we all in this country are looking

to the russian solution. you can't get the votes in the congress. >> tell you what -- tell you what. all ironic. >> it's possible that obama and putin could blunder into peace. >> hoping. >> entrap themselves in peace. >> in the next three minutes for the next program. i believe russia is not our permanent enemy wasn't in the civil war backed the north, in world war ii or, in the 60s limiting test ban treaty. did a lot of work with the russians. thank you. you are watching "hardball" the place for politics. designed the all-new nissan versa note, with more technology, to get you into, and out of, tight spots. and more space so that you always have your favorite stuff. and just for good measure, an incredibly efficient 40 mpg highway. so that when you're doing more, you're spending less. the all-new nissan versa note. your door to more.

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>> let me finish with this. the american people have ruled. there will be no u.s. attack on syria buzz tecause the am scane people do not support it. their answer is a clear cut no. i am heartened to see an alternative. tonight we talk about the alternative. everything in me tells me wars like these are not our place. not our place to take side in a struggle between peoples who hate each other. for religious reasons going back 1,000 years or tribal or clan revenge or out of competition to own and control the same small piece of land in the mideast. as i said glad to see the emergence of an alternative from russia. that's "hardball." thank you for being with us. president obama will address the country in one hour. i will join rachel maddow for

complete coverage of the speech and reaction starting right now. >> announcer: the primetime presidential address, the biggest rhetorical stage a president has to speak to the nation. it's how presidents have told us that wars have started. >> two hours ago, allied air forces began an attack on military targets in iraq and kuwait. these attacks continue as i speak. >> it is where presidents have told us that wars are being ended. >> tonight, i am announcing that the american combat mission in iraq has ended. >> with the country's undivided attention, presidents have used this stage to press their agendas. >> i present to the am scan peop -- american people. >> energy will be the imed me yacht test of our ability to unite this nation. >> this is how