for what your next phone should have as a feature. natalie, what do you have. >> one of my pet peeves too. i love my next phone to correct grammatical errors on [ music playing ] . >> i'd ask every member of congress and those of you watching at home tonight to view those videos of the attack and then ask, what kind of world would we live in if the united states of america sees a brazen dictator violently gas and we

choose to look the other way? >> good morning. it is wednesday, september 11th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, nbc cokie roberts. columnist al hunt. new york time's reporter jeremy peters, john meacham on hills way. >> hiee's always on his way. willie geist will be down at ground zero today. >> the mark. wow, gosh. >> 12 years, 11 years. 12 years. wow. >> we'll be hearing from him coming up. of course the headline this morning is the president's speech last fight. >> the president's speech last night. also a lot of political news out of new york city. the shock of all shock, anthony weiner not only loses, he ends with a flourish by giving an nbc reporter his middle finger. eliot spitzer loses. a big surprise. elliot is expected to win.

that did not happen. but the speech last night, we got a lot of reaction to the speech last night. i'm very surprised by a lot of what i was reading. >> i was surprised across the board. >> how harsh. >> yes. >> let's set it up. get the harsh assessment from the table. >> they're not all harsh. president obama is asking congress to postpone a vote on striking syria as a possible deal to hand over its chemical weapons gains traction. even so, the president spent much of his presidential address condemning syria. layling out the time line of president assad's attacks and making a proceed to lawmakers to get behind him. >> to my friends on the right, i ask you to reconcile your xhim to america's military might when a failure to act when a dawes is so plainly just. to my friends on the left, i ask you to reconcile your pleef in freedom and dignitary for all people. with those images of children

writheing in pain and going still on a cold hospital floor. for sometimes, resolutions and statements of condemnation are simply not enough. >> the president also acknowledged war fatigue after afghanistan and iraq. he repeated no boots on the ground and this would be a limited orioles. ae also answered the philosophical question about his vision about the united states' role in the world. >> for nearly seven decades the united states has been the anchor of global security. this has meant a doing more than forging international agreements. it has meant a enforcing them. our ideals and principles as well as our national security are at stake in syria. along with our leadership of the world where we seek to ensure that the worst weapons will never be used. america's not the world's

policeman. terrible things happen across the globe and it is beyond our means to right every wrong but when with modest effort and risk we can stop children from being gassed to death and thereby make our own children safe over the long run, i believe we should act. that's what makes america different. that's what makes us exceptional, with humidity but with resolve, let us never lose sight of that essential truth. >> there is immediate reaction, of course, to the president's speech, hugh called it a speech if search of a purpose. it was one of the nicer assessments. new york time's says it felt more like knees rattling. except for the good old days when obama was leading behind, these guys are leading by the tongue. amateur hour when a baum's

flip-floping ambivalent leadership led him to the exact place he never wanted to be. unilateral instead of unified. >> they ranked the president in the space of his 16 minute address was often at odds with himself. he spent the first 12 minutes arguing for the merits to strike syria. then delivered the news that he was putting that on hold. >> the "wall street journal," what a fiasco, a weak and insist u.s. president has been ma offered no by america's enemies in claiming defeat for syria policy is really a triumph. >> the washington post called the speech stumbling, improvised and often inconsistent and john harris in politico, a zigzag address to the nation that did little to clarify what will come next in the syria crisis but shined a glareing hot light on the ethe bait in the president another own mind. >> finally, ron fornier says the good news is, we're not at war t. pad knew is, almost everything else about president obama's handling of syria, the fumbling and flip-floping and marvel mouthing undercut his

credibility and ability to lead the nation and the world and cokie, if you dig into all of these assessments, they go to the contradiction, where the president says assad issed be, he gassed little children, he is a boast. john kerry and other administration officials compare him to hitler. in the next breath, oh, by the way, we're financial to do a deal with him and vladmir putin. then in the next breath, it was a military threat that brought him to the table. then in the next breath, we're not going to have a military strike. >> attack. there is a reason that everybody is saying this is incoherent. it's incoherent and the fact that the president really had his gloves taken out of the fire by vladmir putin. is this a position we want to be in. >> is this a guy we want to trust. in the days moving forward, putin was moving away from anything that mattered the united nations, here we are in

the united states having to rely in 2013 on the french. >> i know. there you go. >> watching tv last night, i hear him say, but putin said that the russian position was far, far from being the u.s. position from the french position. but, yet the french are holding the loan. >> but to me is really telling is that the more the president has talked and the more he has lobbied and the more he has done all the, you know, huge presidential things of going to the hill and all the people and all that, the less people are for this policy. i mean, he keeps driving people away rather than attract them. >> i wonder, al hunt, given, i thought it was a sort of clear explanation of everything we have at play. and i'm not sure i have a problem with him understanding that the nation is really, really, really tired of

engaenling at this point. and showing that he's taken that into consideration. but given everything that's going on, if they're going to seriously consider a diplomatic solution, should this speech have been put off? >> i think he had to give a speech. he already said he was going to. i am in the very narrow sense, i'm in the encoherent caucus in the sense that i thought the speech was pretty good. i think the policy has been dreadful. his only hope now is he's lucky that putin, a tug, who loves to inflict pain on the united states, that this may be one of those rare instances where putin's and obama's interests coincide. i'm not being sarcastic. so define good. i think he raised the appropriate questions that the public is raising, the slippery slope the world's policemen won't do any good, pin prick, all that. did he answer thael e them all well? no, some of them aren't very easy to answer. so in that sense i thought the

speech and he was very emotional in talkingable these terrible hofk things that occurred. in that sense, given a bad hand, i thought he gave a good speech. i don't think he changed many minds at all. i was with buck mckee and the chairman of the armed services afterwards, he said, i thought it was a good speech. i don't think any of my wicht constituents were served. >> he would have been better off in the oval office or the family residence and the teleprompter was way up here. so he's looking like this, so he never looked us in the eye as he talked to us. that really matters to have somebody look you in the eye when they're trying to convince you. >> i will say strategically the thing that was good about this speech was it reset things. we were all looking at the president. everybody yesterday afternoon before john kerry committed a slip of the tongue, which now our u.s. foreign policy is based uponment by the way, i like

john, but please den tell me you meant a to do that. >> it was a well crafted plan. >> it was perhaps the most well crafted gap if repeat history. >> genius. >> strategic, the point is you have a president about to be undercut. his credibility across the globe is about to be vashed, tan down, the next three years were going to be a nightmare for him. the causes a reset. now the president can do what his democratic allies wanted him to do in the first place, if putin and assad do what we know they are going to do, back away from the deal. then do you the military strikes and you is ask for more giveness instead of permission. the president looks strategically, that's very good. jeremy the impact on the hill. >> i think the phrase you used, the reset button. the temperature dropped dramatically yesterday on fill. you heard some of the president's strongest critics like ron johnson of wisconsin, a republican senator, saying they have an appreciation for what

he's going through. the president gave a version last into it to republicans and democrats separately on the hill. what he said was more direct. he said, do not undercut my authority to threaten force on syria. and with republican, they thought, okay, we want to have a powerful, the united states military august to have a powerful commander-in-chief. >> yet, i was hearing late yesterday afternoon, i'm curious if you heard the same thing. in the democratic caution, it seemed like he said the military threat was taken off the table. we are now pursuing a diplomat ec approach. >> maybe that's what some democrats had selective hearing only. i think they want a united states option on the table. i didn't hear he had taken military option off the table. remember, the liberal democrats the president will need to authorize force in congress are very, very wary of a solution that does not heavily involve the international community. >> you know what i'm wary of? >> what are you wary about? >> i'm wary of having a hard

foot guys, he dithers in. you talk act dithering. he dithers in. welcome to the show. >> is daylight savings on? >> no. we're on the east coast. >> that was for agricultural times, you know. >> so did you hear the reviews, the harsh reviews while you were coming over here? >> i did. maureen was kind of tough the washington post. >> maureen was tough, there's a shock. i'm surprised by that. >> did you see the speech? >> i'm surprised. in fact, i was watching it on an endless loop, why is why i'm a little loopy. i was trying to get the first part and the second part to work together. >> it was, first of all, set the stage for the speeches to work. >> i looked it. al hunt, thank you for saying that. did you like it, joe? >> it was something unusual. i thought it was something unusual.

>> john meacham. >> it was unusual because we, a lot of us think that presidential loadership should be to some extent about bringing us into the tent. about explaining what it's like to be on the other side of the desk, explaining the issues. being realistic. treating voters like, get it. >> intelligent people. >> grown-ups. right. it was something that churchill did, that fdr did, that ronald reagan did. you actually talk about the problem and there is another school of thought embodied by certain recent presidents that presidential leadership is only about anounting decisions and sticking by them. >> making the hammer fall. >> right. now, i wish, personally, that president obama had come to this deal term with fdr educationalal masterfully maybe say health care some years ago, so people might understand what's in that

fwhal so divided american politics. i think that foreign spoils a place where you don't want to get to the place where obum has gotten, however, now that he's there, explaining it being straight forward and sort of bringing us in almost, it was more of a briefing than it was an exohrtation. >> which is what he has been doing, briefing members of congress. as jeremy says, he was well received in both caucuses yesterday. that's what he has been doing is giving a briefing. that's why i say he was better off in the residence where he would have been sitting there as a human being, a dad and looking us in the eye and saying this is a real problem, america, i need you to be with me here. we didn't get any of that. >> presidential speeches matter. policy-making matters even more.

far more i liked the speech better than others did. far more is the policy-making if you will. this resemblebled a pickup game on tuesday, you go over here, kerry will do this. susan rice will be here. >> that is not -- >> hillary, please. >> that is really not a way to engender confidence either with the congress or the american people. i think they have been very hurt by that. i'm not sure they can recover from that. >> again, i want to go back to there are a lot of people very negative on the speech this morning. i wasn't quite so negative on the speech and the flip-floping. i just looked at it again as important because it did allow the reset. because syria matters. >> yes. >> i was against kosovo in kovenlth i was against bosnia. i was against the surge because i to the bush mishandled it. i was against tripleing the number of troops. i'm sort of from col co lynn

powell's school. >> it would be worse if joe were in charge. >> i'm from colin powell. >> you don't send your troops to war unless are you ready to go to war and we don't want a fair fight. these limited skirmishes are always bad. >> that said, syria matters and i think it matters a hell of a lot more than boss fiia or kosovo and the president, having a strong commander-in-chief matters. that's why, forget all of the bumbling last week. forget the disjointed nature of his speech. i think, cokie, last night it mattered because it gave the president a reset. i think again if putin and assad don't follow through on their promises. of course, they're not going to, the president can strike. he won't make the sake mistake twice. >> let's hope not. when do we decide they have him follow through? and how long does it take? do we go to the u.n. and get a resolution? this is now going to go on and on and on. so maybe it's a reset with

congress and he doesn't have to face the devastateing vote and look like -- >> that was one thing that i would point out is that we don't know where this is going to take us. it's more than likely this issue ends up before congress. >> this is what joe mansion was talking, i talked to him three days ago. this is what he was drafting with heidi highcamp three days ago. again, thanks, to john kerry's gaffe, you talk about basketball, the bull rolled at joe's feet. we will probably have about a 45-day delay. >> we will be talking about this much more. coming up on "morning joe," senator john mccain will join us, former national security advisory zbignei be brzezifski 57bd general michael hayden and

sheila bair. up next, willie geist is down on ground zero on the 12th anniversary of the september 11th attacks him willie, what do you have ahead? >> hey, guys, can you believe it's been 12 years this morning? 8:46 a.m., one of the towers was hit behind me. this morning we will look at the progress rebuilding this place. you can see the beautiful memorial with the pools opened two years ago on the 10th anniversary. we will give a look down underground inside the national september 11th memorial museum which doesn't open until next 84. they let us go in, walk around, see some of the amazing artifacts and exhibits inside. we'll show you that when we come back on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] marie callender's knows that you may not have time to roll out dough for a perfectly flaky crust that's made from scratch. or enough time to mix vegetables with all white meat chicken and a homemade gravy. she knows you may not have a moment to crimp the edges of your favorite chicken pot pie.

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. >> welcome back. 22 past the hour. two disgraced democrats looking for political redem sun in new york city are waking up wondering what's next for their political careers, unredeemed,

stunner. former congressman anthony weiner. >> that one was not a stunner. >> coming up shortly on his bid to be new york city mayor. he finished in fifth place in the democratic primary. weiner was apparently a sore loser. he gave our local affiliate a middle finger after his loss. >> an improve him over other things. >> cokie. we would rather see the middle finger, anthony. >> the city's public advocate might have had more than 40% of the vote, enough to avoid a runoff agempbs bill thompson, thompson has not conceded. in his victory speech, he promised a strong return away from michael plume berg's policies. >> tonight, before so many friends, i say this, what we have achieved here tonight and what we'll do in the next round of this campaign won't just change the view of how things look inside city hall, but will

change the policies that have left behind so many of our fellow new yorkers outside of city hall. >> on the republican side, joe lona, the former chairman of the metropolitan lhota wins mayoral primary. joe spirits got voted down. >> that's a stunner. that's not what the polls were saying or at least their internal polls. manhattanboro president scott stringer scoring the victory there. >> unbelievable with us now. we have mike alan, chief excuse correspondent and politico. by the way, what's your reaction to that? i also want you to talk about the wonderful article about the president's spoech last night. the zig versus the zag, anybody that wants to understand the inconsistencies needs to talk politico after this segment and read that. let's talk about new york since the you guys are going all

gotham on us. >> we are seeing tonight with last night's results bill depalad deblasio. he said christine quinn was likely to be the next mayor of new york. bill deblasio had a clear message. obama's consultant knows about insurient campaigns, saved his money, spent it on television and it paid off? wow. >> not in recent times have i ever seen mika, an entire campaign turned on the commercial. >> my mother always had the lean, she ran on my father's companies, she says the first money spend is for the last week of the company. that was always her advice to everyone. >> your mother, of course, brilliant. that's, you don't four. >> i heard that before. >> you don't -- yeah, that's

what i said you raise lots of money so you don't spend it and then the last week. it paid off here. he had that commercial two his son and it made a huge difference. >> a lot of different things came into play that just turned christine quinn's fortunes around. i think actually, listen, i think that was a good thing, stop and frisk, that ruling. >> that hammond and a couple other things in the whole third term issue actually became it really resonated with people in a way that i think they were willing to give her a pass about six months ago. >> she's a campaigner. i does matter in the campaign. >> i think you saw voters asking for a fresh start. this questions quinn who embodied what the bloomberg administration had done to new york for three terms then eliot spitzer. >> which at one point was a good thing. >> by the way, be i the way, mika, i germany tee you, if

deblasio gets in there by the way, i will get a lot of parking tickets over the next four years, two years in you will wish bloomberg had a 4th term. new yorkers have taken for granted what has happened in this city since 19 knee since rudy guiliani went in, you had eight years of guiliani, all of these limosine liberals that hated july yaerngs attacked giuliani because they actually liked goingdown downtown without getting beaten up. it's changed so radically. there are voters in new york city who don't remember what it was like in 1989 and 1990. in 1991, when you couldn't take your family on vacation in new york city at the outbreak of the bosnian war, be every the bosnian war, i think it was travel and leisure, they took a poll of the worst places to take your families on vacation.

new york city was number two, only behind sarajevo. we will see a brand-new world. >> i took my family on vacation to sarajevo and it was really quite nice. >> 1993. >> last fight from the e-mail. they know that joe lhota has little chance, either the exit polls or the polls before it. it seems if he has to go through a runoff, phil debla sio. he didn't have to listen to anyone. he had the authority, where bill deblasio will be listening to much mohr people. >> unions. >> opening to other groups. >> unions. >> and morning, this last run that they've had. >> also, hillary clinton and jeb

bush. >> city of brotherly love. jeb bush had a great line, he said, both of us agree on the wisdom of the american preem, particularly in new hampshire, iowa, south clone. >> let's take a look. >> let's take a listen to it. >> secretary clinton is out of office so am i. i'm not sure what people will expect to happen here tonight. hillary and i come from different political parties and we disagree about a few things, but we do agree on the wisdom of the american people, especially those in iowa and new hampshire and south cloimpb. in fact, i think secretary clinton might be in des moines next week. now, don't actually wear the medal there, madam secretary. >> were there any dynamics? >> online, conservatives were criticizing jeb bush, there was a tweet, if he doesn't want to

run, he should say so. this was a great event. >> come on, this is the constitution. we should be able to get together behind the constitution. >> i am still surprised hillary, al hunt, that hillary came out in support of syria. a candidate who lost in 2008 in large part because of her support of -- >> i slightly disagree of the analysis. i don't think she lost because of '02. she lost because she ran a bad campaign. i think if she had taken a different% cure that, would not have been much of an albatross as it was. she had no choice but come out after syria. she was champing in this. she was win of the hawks in this administration to either reverse or to lay low i think would have been a huge mistake. >> poor john kerry, they bring

back hillary clinton. >> exactly. the president calls and says i feed you to do this, how would it have look fwld she said no? i don't think that at this point she wants to break or make it appear that the democratic powersmart as split as it really is over the issue. >> also bill gates, secretary of defence to come out and do it as well. >> bob gates. >> made a statement. >> bob allen, thank you so much. it's great to have you on. coming up, we're going to head down to lower manhattan where willie geist is standing by with a look at the world trade center museum set to open next year. later, we'll have an all star lineup to analyze the president's address to the nation more "morning joe" when we come back [ male announcer ] let's say you pay your guy around 2% to manage your money. that's not much, you think. except it's 2% every year.

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. >> welcome back to "morning joe." i'm willie geist, this memorial was dedicated on the anniversary. there will be the six months of

silence we have come to know, one each for the two planes that hit the tower. one for the plane that crashed in shanksville, two others for the moments when these two towers fell. the towers went down 12 years ago and now a new life is being created down here the one world trade center will be completed early next year. you can see it behind me, the memorial dedicated ten years ago. now a museum opening under ground sometime next spring. we got an exclusive look inside. work didn't stop as we began our tour. >> this is the very first artifact you will see. it's one of my favorite perspectives, you see these two large steel tridents that was a part of the structural columns of the north tower that were recovered. when you lock through them, you see 1 world trade center, the tallest building in the united states. >> it has been a massive undertakingment some of the most impressive monuments were left

by the towers, themself, still in one piece the survivors staircase, an escape route responsible for saving as many as 25,000 lives. >> something like 25,000 people got out. these shairs stairs help tell that story. >> still under wraps, a 36-foot-tall beam known as the last column. >> it's covered in graffiti and miamis from first responder agencies, construction crews. it chokes the amount of the breadth and depth of people that worked on this pile. >> reporter: there are symbols of heroism of the first responders, like that of engine 21 and captain billy burke. >> reporter: the south tower collapses, he orders all his men out to safety. he decides to stay behind. his last phone call he made from the south tower and basically was talking to someone, they said, you got to get out of the building, what are you doing there still? he said, this is my job, this is whether i do. >> also found in the debris, steel girders in the shape of a

cross. >> this cross was in the rubble. it came we believe from building 6. it just provided a bit of spirituality under conditions unimaginable. >> reporter: it's a huge space, 110,000 square feet down below the memorial. it's really the foot print of where the towers once stood. if you want to help out, they are working through this. you can go to 911 memorial do - memorial.org. >> even all these years later, obviously, it's impacted our foreign policy in such a terrible way over the past 12 years, but, you know, i was with a friend in my hometown a couple weeks ago, i found out not from him but somebody else he was on the 76th floor having a meeting

with seven of his colleagues. four got out alive, three perished. you can tell just all the children who lost a parent there, you were, of course at cbs. that was your first week at cbs. you went running down to 57th street. you were there a couple weeks. >> a couple weeks. a lot of us that covered it so closely, it's like a parker in life. before 9-11 after 9-11, you are changed in every way. i spent that day in a school a couple blocks away from the towers. firefighters would come in to get water. then they went back if, then, of course, at one point they went back in. a couple of them spoke on the phone saying good-bye to their families and then they went back in and never came back out. >> and you were under one of the towers when it started to fall? i'm sorry, who were you with? >> byron pitts. >> so mika was staring up at the

tower not able to take it in. she didn't -- >> realize what was happening? >> couldn't figure it out. byron pitts, thafrg good, grabbed her. they reason away and threw you under a truck and you couldn't see for. >> we spent that day in that school and when you came out, it was like the day after, after all the duls had settled and the city was completely different but we sa you the faces of the people who faced their death that day from inside that school. >> that memorial is really sacred ground. >> it really is. >> the idea that they are treating it as such is terribly important. i'm very glad that that's what they've decided to do. >> well, we will be check income with willie throughout the morning, marking this 12th, 12th year after 9-11. still ahead on "morning joe," senator mccain will join us live to discuss the president's speech and where the u.s. should go from here.

up next, is it a fair comparison? we're going to talk to a reagan biographer about that. he joins us for the must read opinion pages. we are back in just a moment with much more "morning joe." ♪ . ♪ ♪

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we're not gonna give up what we love. it's not gonna happen. and when the pounds still come off... we'll be like, "whoa!" one night we'll even eat a cupcake like it's our job. just not the entire cake. that's part of the weight watchers plan. we're gonna feel happy... healthy... and good. weight watchers. join for free. because we understand. because we've been there. because it works. hurry, join by september 14th and you'll get a free month. . >> are you skeptical? does it seem like a stalling tactic? >> i think a famous president said "trust but verify." you have to take it with a grain of salt initially, between the statements that we saw from the russians, if statement today from the syrians, this

represents a potentially positive development and my preference consistently has been a

>> so on the sand, when i was on the beach, it was a little trick twri, once in a while with the drink. >> it's endorsed. >> let's go to the washington post for must-reads. this is interesting. the title the world now has a chance to end war in syria, by president jimmy carter. he says this, some have predicted catastrophic consequences to the credibility of president obama and our country. if congress were to reject his request for approval of military action against the assad regime in syria. these dire restrictions are xanl rated. the president expressed his decision clearly to our citizens and to the world, properly sought congressional concurrence and has done his outmost to

secure necessary votes in the house and senate. . >> so, john meacham, president carter stating that this is a pathway to peace. at the end of the day, despite the ugliness, despite the fumbling. >> this is a national conversation. >> despite all the mistakes in the administration over the past two weeks, this is where we find ourselves, there may be a pathway to peace. >> i don't think anyone would have scripted this. is it reality? >> how can you script foreign policy based on a gaffe? >> i do think the administrator, the president, i don't want to broaden it past that, has made the best of bad hand. he may have dealt himself a bad

hand. we can take that to guantonomo all you want. but what i do think has happened is he gave a pretty straight forward this somewhat dissent speech. it's a dissident moment. i think this is a is will beer. i appreciate that he seemed to let us inside. this is really hard. no one except people deeply certain or deeply id logical have an answer. >> craig, you obviously have been against syria, like a lot of conservatives, what are your feelings after we have averted at least trem e temporarily. not from the perspective of the new york times. i think the american people will come away with two things. one, maybe we will not bomb syria after all. two there is a pathway to peace. i think as far as the content and the delivery, i give a general seat. i think it was fairly good last night. >> it's a pathway for peace for,

not for the certains. >> that's what the american people care about. >> his objective, his being obama's objective all along is to prevent chemical weapons, not overthrow assad. i think he may achieve the former, not the latter. to rely on putin is something you don't like to do. but i do believe. i talked to a russian. i hadn't talked to brzezinski. i may revise this view, but i talked to one russian expert who doesn't like putin says this guy this elevates you, if he makes this work. it may not be a huge ko cause, assad will rule the place, even with most of his capital weapon. i'm not as pessimistic as some people are saying you can't trust putin. >> in terms of a speech, craig, isn't it fair that he laid out every die nallic that is happening, treating the american people like they're not dumb,

that they can handle a convoluted situation, which foreignpiles policy is. is itp unfair to say we stumbled into this. the president went abroad. he has been working on both levels and here we are. >> i think that craig it's okay to say we stumbled our way in. >> but we stumble our way into everything. there is human being involved. starting stwrul 4g9, 1886, we stumble whether it's par or diplomacy. none of this is pretty or perfect. you got human beings involved. it's the same way with this. ma ib the administration will stumble their way through i said a path to peace so that we don't end up dropping bombs on syria. >> this does to go to cokie's point, if, in fact, it works, it goes to what we define as our national interest. we talk about the humanitarian side. the president said the reason we are an exceptional nation is because we care about other people. that's actually, sometimes we care. but sometimes.

>> we care more when it's in ourself interest to care. >> right and to use a phrase that i think craig night have run across once or twice, we are a city on a shining hill. fen e when you think of that image, these are people out there, looking up, aspiring, not necessarily that we are going in, saving them. >> craig, before we leave, we bought the to, mark a moment in the development of the republican party. you and i have been on one side, not in this durnt conflict. on one side of the republican party, there have been more non-interventionists. the republican party moved far away. >> yes. >> from where we were in the 1980s, under reagan, where we were in the 1950s under ike, where we were in the 1990s, even. >> right. it's safe to say the neocons are on the run. this last crisis have shown they are at lowest until another republican president is sworn in, they're in the overwhelming minority republican party.

this is a c change. >> there was a poll that came out a week ago. republicans were fairly divide as to whether to go to syria. yesterday it was 70-20 against. i think the party is reverting back to its traditional precautionary of reagans to defend american interest, otherwise is to stay back. but this -- syria will set up a whole new debate inside the republican party. the new party may be the neocons. >> he represents simi valley. he says not a single constituent supports obama going in. >> craig shirley, thank you so much. good to have you and your 12,000 books on board here. >> i love it. >> up next, he risked his life for the save others on 9-11. now, he's telling his story for the first time. a new york city fire fighter jones willie at ground zero on this 12th anniversary.

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. >> i was picked up in a whirlwind. i landed against the wall, i asked, god, please, just save me. just the don't let me do i. huge chunks of concrete just hitting my body. every time another slab of concrete hit me, i just the felt ribs break, another slab, another slab, another slab. i was waiting for that one thing that was going to hit me. maybe i can take it. maybe i'm strong enough i can withstand the shot. it didn't happen. 11 second later, i was alive. >> that's a fire fighter talk figure a new documentary that airs tonight on the discover channel called 9-11 firehouse 8:00 on discovery. good to see you. how do you feel when you come back here, your firehouse was a few yards that way. right at the foot. 12 years later, how do you feel on a morning like this?

>> it makes me feel very anxious, very nervous. this was my home. this is where i lived. they did this on my doorstep. they did this in front of me t. twin towers were our twins. they were our babies. we took a lot of pride in protecting them, going there 600 times a year prior to the attack. so when i come down here, it hurts me very much that they're not there anymore. >> that the terrorists were so effective in what they did with such a small am, it really bothers me that we let it happen. >> the way you described, the first ting you saw that day after the attack. at the foot of the twin towers. you hear the commotion. you walked outside outside, you describe the sky as being completely plaque. >> it takes your breath away to realize in one moment at the back of the fire house, it's a beautiful september day. you walk to the front of the fire house, it's a completely different day. it's nighttime, there is bodies reigning out of the sky, there

is debris, fireballs over your head, now you have to go to work. all you want to do is get out of here. this was not for me. we put on our goer, out the door we went. okay. we got work to do. there is people that need to be safe. never thinking the buildings were going to collapse. >> john, you retired a year ago with your lungs, a lot of guys were telling me a lot of them have died since then. >> unfortunately the attack on september 11th is still claiming lives. construction workers, firefighters, police officers, anybody that was a first responder that came down here, unfortunately, had suffered some types of ailments. myself, i deal with lung issues. i want to be around as long as i can. i have a family. i want to be around for my family. the writing is on the wall. there was a lot of toxins in the air. it's a point to take care of the people that helped us out. get them the aid that they need so that one day they can come

back here with their kids and say this is what we did on that day. >> thanks so much. we will see more of you tonight on the discovery channel "9/11 firehouse" on the discovery channel. thank you for everything you did that day and for the city. >> you are welcome. >> we'll be right back on "morning joe." and just give them the basics, you know. i got this. .

>> in the days leading up to august 21st, we know assad's

chemical weapons prepared for an area where they prepared sarin gas. they fired rockets from a controlled area into 11 neighborhoods that the regime has been trying to wipe clear of opposition forces. shortly after those rockets land, the gas spread and hospitals 23i8d filled with the dyeing and the wounded. we know senior figures in assad's military regime reviewed the results and the regime increased their shelling of the same neighborhoods in the days that followed. we have also studied samples of blood and hair from people at the site that tested positive for sarin. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it's the top of the hour. cokie roberts is still with us. joining us on set dr. brzensinski. the vision "america and the gloefs crisis in power."

out on paperback. also the host of msfbc's "hard ball," chris matthews. host of andrea mitchell reports, andrea mitchell and it doesn't stop there. >> oh, there is good. >> former senior adviser to president obama and director of the university of chicago's institute of politics and msnbc contributor david axelrod. good to have you all at the table this morning. >> so last hour we read a lot of the review itself. most of the reviews overwhelmingly negative. i think the reviews around the table are far more positive here. let's just very quickly. can you say that's right. he will make a lot of noise. >> what are you tuging there? >> they said the speech felt more like saber rattling, less like saber rattling. more like knees rattling. it was amateur hour. dana millbank of the washington post, obama at odds with

himself. the "wall street journal" called it weak, inconsistent. john harris called it a zigzag address, finally, ron fornier says the good news is we are not at war t. bad news is everything else of obama's handling of sirria flip-flopping undercut his credibility most people weren't so harsh and thought we had a whiteboard to peace. >> let me say i have been dying to hear that as with el. >> we want to be the savior will. >> their address was impressive in a sense, focusing on a very narrow aspect of the issue and what has happened, of course, is that with the initiative, it has given it a larger setting. i think this raises the mental issues regarding the future. american influence in the region

is declining and there was a real risk that fwoul lead with a bang. i think there is now a possibility that we might be able to put something together and working with the russians, working with the european dwrn, the chinese, perhaps, were involved. there is a remote possibility, a real possibility of a grand settlement, but what we have to remember, i think, personally, is the issues in the middle east today are so open that we cannot solve the problems of the middle east by resolving one, family the syrian problem. we also have to make some serious movement towards iran because there is a process of really major political change in eastern under way. we ought to encourage it and use it. and last but not least, we have to get really strong political backing to the israeli-palestinian peace process. because any one of these three can blow everything up. >> chris matthews, what are your

thoughts on the address? maybe there was a lot of fumbling moving forward, but there is no doubt the conclusion is where the majority of americans are right now. they don't want war with syria. >> yeah. i think that's the one profound verdict we have at hand right now. that's decided. i don't think the speech last night would have changed that. i think the speech was well done. it was clen cal. it wasn't going to move the public opinion on this thing. i do think, the interesting thing is the possibilities that somebody is talking about. i'm not a foreign policy expert. i got up in the morning thinking, you know, maybe the russians and the french and everybody gets involved in this. no one has come up with a solution or an end game for syria. hillary clinton the rest are saying to bashar assad die, just die. i mean, that's not a good diplomatic argument. >> by the way, rand paul last night is, speaking of that, rand paul's new position is we shouldn't go to war, but assad should die. >> just a couple of things here,

i wish i were as optimistic about the grand vision as dr. brzensinski. because there is what is needed. last night i was talking to british an french diplomats who had been working all day at the united nations. they had to can sell the security meeting at the last minute because the russians said they would not accept the resolution that was drafted or in the process of being 2kr5069ed because it has -- being drafted because it had force. it had as you notice a chapter 7 clause in it that would have permitted the use of force. so once again, putin is saying, we can't even have as the final enforcement mechanism the use of force if assad goes back to chemical weapons, if they don't disclose. the president is saying that force is the ultimate enforcer. it's the central component. >> last night he said assad has come to the table because of the threat of force, now i'm not

going to ask for the continued threat of force. >> one more quick thing, joe, i interviewed one of the spokesmen for the opposition yesterday and they are heart broken. they are devastated. they feel abandoned. they say even if this all worked and he gave up the weapons, where is the punishment for killing all of our people? >> and why are the american people not support figure president that we will use force. i don't believe it. i don't think the americans will belly up and say let's attack damascus. i don't think it's going to happen. i still think there is a problem here. >> what about the threat of it? >> the american people are not going to back it up. unless he operate itself on his own. >> he can. >> the president? >> this provides the reset and provides the reset that if putin and assad do what we all expect mighten and assad to do, then the president has the ability to launch a military strike without fumbling the way he did this past time. i'm not saying that's the best

thing to do. it certainly, he has gotten out of the corner he put himself in. >> what is the nature of the military threat? the nature of the military threat is ultimately extremely limited. i don't think the president intends to start a big war in the region or to win the syrian war. . the military and political effects of that. what i think is interesting ability what is happening is that people got scared in russia that they would be frozen out completely from the region t. russians realize, the only way to perpetuate their presence is by playing a role that somehow or other begins to resolve the problem of chemical weapons as a way of opening the door to a larger political die electoral college and others will want to step in. now, i'm not pretending this will happen. i think for the first time we will have a choice between the widening explosion in the region. that's war with syria will spread with jordan, to lebanon.

we all faulk ability that or some sort of a larger settlement. that's where the difficulty arises. a larger settlement has einvolved. it involves iran and israeli and palestine. that's going to be a major challenge with international community but maybe we should see, it will be a tremendous accomplishment. >> it could be, cokie roberts yesterday, let's talk domestic politics, yesterday, peter baker new york times talking about how the president itself and it wasn't an overstatement, talking about how the president's credibility was on the line like no president since wilson was rejected in 1917 that, you know, he failed on guns, he 235id on immigration. he's failed on so many things this year that the president's men and women were going to capitol hill talking to democrat ec lawmakers saying, in effect, his presidency is on the line, we need your support and they ignored. that's right. >> this is a big reset not just

internationally. it's a big reset domestically for this president. >> if he had lost this vote, which he was clearly about to do, it would have been everything, immigration would have been down the tubes, obamacare defunded. >> debt ceiling. >> debt kreelting. all of it. >> it's a calculation. i was studying this thing, you know foreign policy, i was thinking about the politics. this is a simple arithmetic thing. there are four quadrant, right right, center left, center right t. hard left was against this thing t. hard right was against this thing. no discussion. the problem between coin putting together a coalition, the president zigzags creating blur, zigzagging back and forth. >> sometimes blurs work. >>t this days when you could lie, say this, to one crowd, another thing to another crowd. now they all hear it. >> that's what fdr did 12 years in the white house. >> okay. you got your point. >> i'm just saying.

>> i do not agree with you generally. we might agree specifically. >> we've had an assessment. it's limited focus here. >> no, i want to generalize it. >> it's a limited point there, which is the president's con91 drum. you can't cross that lean in the middle and unite the center left with the center right t. use of force of getting involved in syria was an essential difference between center right and center left t. center lowest people do to the want to get involved. they made a limited strike, a small strike. ten he says, there is not going to be a small thing. we don't do things small. meanwhile, the secretary of state is saying. it's so small, you can't believe it. that's the big con91 connone drum. >> in the past democrats in the middle who wanted the president to be strong because it works for their domestic agenda. >> right. >> republicans in the middle who wanted america to be strong and

america, what the president is saying is a red line and they're not doing anything about it looks weak. >> that is the problem. he did nothing after last aught august's red line. nothing to build a coalition. >> that's true, cokie, that formulation may have worked in 1986 when reagan decided to drop some bombs on libya and america felt stronger for it. it doesn't work 12 years after 9/11 and this war. >> day of the axelrod, let's bring you in here. what do you make of the litany of criticism that followed the president's speech last night? >> well, i was interested in the discussion you were just having. it really speaks to the challenge that the president faced last night. given that challenge, i think he did reasonably well. he had to thread a needle. he had to make a case this was a strategic moral importance that we had to act but re-assure people that we could act in a limited way and wasn't going to be another iraq. he had to make the case for attack an diplomacy. >> that at very, very difficult

kind of milange he had to put together. i think they did it reasonably well. this isn't an easy situation and i'm not surprised there was criticism of the speech but as you guys have discussed. i think the events of the last few days have presented an opportunity and everybody says can we trust putin? the question is does putin find it in his self interest to listen to dr. brzensinski? joe is right in that if it doesn't work out it creates a new scenario in terms of approaching this situational all in all, i think he took a step forward and in a very straight forward way with a very complex situation. >> and the he talked about this being in putin's best interest. what's in putin's best interest is not always against u.s. best

interest. >> that's true. i think the realization that the choit was either an explosion in the region which probably extend to russia, itself, the talk u caucuses, his olympics would dead and russia would be joined into something unpredict annual. we happen at the same time to realize the era of american domination in the region is coming to an end. perhaps we could reassert a large war. perk doesn't want a large war in the middle east. so we had a choice between a limited military operation with very few political consequences of any enduring benefit or general attrition of the situation. so we are now in a position pregnant to seek an all ternty, a grand settlement in which we participate as a major player but no longer as a critically dominant one but that to be possible means we will be having to deal with issues on the wide front as i mentioned before. if we do that, the whole thing

will explode. >> one thought here is that here have you john kerry i think very adeptly trying to put together the middle east peace initiative bringing in martin indeck in this. doing it quietly in that there have been no real leaks from the talks themselves, that piece is going on. there are overtures to and from iran. at the same time, there is a per ception that the president has bumbled what robert gibbs char itably called the sequencing of this. why give the war speech with kerry and the next day say you are going to against the advice and the only in of all of your advisers, political and national security go to congress, a congress that has not easily supported you on anything. so you appear weak. i think what is concerning is how the rest of the world views this administration. >> that's not all, cokie

roberts, if you were to bumble. >> i do think we have perhaps now stumbled into a context in which something grand, a grand settlement, all of a sudden, may be on the horizon. we will have to work very hard to get it. we have to be very persistent. we have to support some key countries, but it is potentially doable. that's a new ray of hope. >> if you are going to stumble. in politics, stumble your way into an 80% position, where 80% of the american people. so we are all going to be wreng our hands how it has been immature at the without white house, guess what, they've stumbled toward 80%. it's much more than stumbling towards the 20%. he'll be fine. >> it's a good place to be domestically. i think the point about what the syrian opposition is feeling is very important and what we are seeing now is that they feel abandoned be i the united states, which sends them into

the arms of al qaeda and other terrorists and, you know, in talking about the anniversary of september 11th, i mean, this is the nightmare is that we are creating terrorists around the world by abandoning people who think that we should be supporting you. >> finally, david axelrod, is it stumbling into this? or how would you see it? >> i think the situation. there is no doubt. i agree with robert the sequencing wasn't good and i've said this. joe asked me about this last week. i thoroughly agree with that. but the fact is, it is a very complex situation and so it doesn't lend itself to a neat solution. so, you know, whatever adjective you use for how we got here, the question is, where do we go now and there are some possibilities that didn't exist before. i do believe that the president another invocation of the possibility of force was part of the mix in how we got to this place and so in that sense, you know, he deserves credit for

where we are. >> all right. david axelrod, thank you very much. dr. brezinski thank you as well. your book "strategic vision" cokie roberts, thank you, so great to see you. happy anniversary. >> happy anniversary. >> thank you. yes. >> how many years? hello. chris and andrea, if you could stay with us. we'd appreciate it. still ahead, general michael hayden here here with his thoughts on the syrian strategy, later, laurnts o'donell jones us on set. first, senator mccain with his reaction of the speech and david gregory jones us, you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back with the spark miles card from capital one,

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>> a live look from capitol hill. with us senator john mccain. >> thank you so much. what was your take on the speech last night? >> i thought the emotion that the president evoked about dead children and slaughter of innocence i think struck a nerve, a resonant chord with the american people. i have to say, joe, he is making an argument for action while we are in a quote pause while we wait for john kerry to negotiate with the people who are supplying beginning yesterday, they began again weapons to bashar al-assad. i was very disappointed the president did not mention the free syrian army and our moral and material assistance for

them, which is requiredment i think they do feel they're being abandoned. finally, why should john kerry negotiate with geneva? why don't we introduce with the u.n. security council that calls for immediate inspectors, immediate weapons caches and bringing them under international control? so i feel very badly for my friend in the free syrian army today. >> so, senator, is it your estimate that it would be hopeless to work with the russians especially if there is something in theirself interests now to find a peaceful solution? are you still feeling we should be acting now? >> well, i thought we should have acted a long time ray go. i'm not against negotiating

with, trying to include the russians or get their agreement. why not have a resolution today in the security council that calls for the inspectors to represent weapon caches, to identify the process, what's the point of going to meet and yesterday mr. putin said the united states as a precondition had to renounce the use of force. by the way, bashar al-assad's error started flying and attacking the rebels again today. there is nothing that would drive syrians more into the hands of the extremists than to feel that they have been abandoned by the west and that impression i am sure has been made on them today. >> all right. all right. senator john mccain, thank you

so much. we greatly appreciate you coming by. david gregory. a lot of talk about the president's failure of the speech last night. there is no doubt, tow, that at least 80% of the american people are glad we are not firing missiles this morning. >> i think there is no question, glad the president used a prime time address not to ask for anything. >> how about that prime time address to not ask for anything. >> to not announce action, to basically say we're paudzing here's y. i think the glimmer of hope in the administration is hey maybe after stumbling into this. poor kwengs, the word of the morning, you know, maybe we get into a diplomatic situation which as you said mika allows putin to be drawn in, in a way he is saving face there is some self agrandizement there and it's in his interest. maybe you achieve the goal of detering and degrading assad's weapons cache without having to

fire a missile or at least you create some space to try dep ploem maes, build up a case and come back to congress. >> try diplomacy, try your case, but, andrea, not go back to congress. because democrats didn't want them to go to congress. it creates a space. if it doesn't work, the president can ask for forgiveness instead of permission. >> in the run up to labor day, during that period, he consulted all four leaders. none of them asked. beaner had a tough load asking a number of questions. none of them asked for a vote. they did not want ovote. their members didn't want to be put on the record. they didn't want to be put on the spot. it was his idea to ask for that vote. i do think he can come back now and say i asked. if there is another violation, if this whole thing falls apart, i think, especially if assad were to do one more thing, i think he can move without asking for a vote. i do think there is another

military question, though, that hasn't been addressed, which is how do you collect these when pont during the '90s unscathed, very successfully moved into iraq and saddam hussein hussein for that period during the clinton years let them collect the chemical weapons? >> there was the satisfy annual civil war going on at the same time. >> exactly. how do you go in a war zone in a white san with a blue helmet and collect these weapons and then unprotected by -- al qaeda forces attacking and grabbing those weapons? >> you are usually mr. sunshine, let me be cynical and say i don't think we will get there where the white vans will be coming. already yesterday, we saw putin backing away the russians backing agree way saying the french proposal was too tough. let me say that again, the french proposal was too tough. we have been through so much over the past 12 years, isn't it

striking this morning after a sudden years of warfare how it reflectively anti-war as you said conservative, liberals, most in the middle are. >> well, i think it's been a very bad experience. >> yeah. >> we have achieved a very nothing. and i think that people see the casualty figures. they wonder, is that the only issue that matters? nothing seems to change. i do think there is a real connundrum here. they will not act against a backdrop threat we have a real probable. i think we have to choose here. diplomacy or attack. this is not a popular idea. as long as we say we will attack, if you don't get anything done, i think we have to get out of the way now and try diplomacy. the russians, i want them to commit. by the way, somebody explain what our goal is in syria? what is our goal? i think that's a real problem.

why don't we get our head straight? we never said to assad what we want to offer him. you talk about negotiation, you die. hillary says it. obama says it. you have no way out. what is the way out? you have to give the rat a hole to get through. you got to give him a chance to do something. what will putin offer? i think the russians want to save their pride. they're a declining empire. they lost theorem pire. they worry ability the threat from the south. they worry about the threat of islamism reaching up into the former soviet union. what is tear interest? churchill was right. figure out their interests. >> there only port is damascus. you are right about jihadis moving into a failed state of syria. ilt it connects with the caucuses. it's beyond sochi and chechnya. >> how do we work that? >> and john meacham, chris matthews asks the question,

what's the grand strategy? you know, commentators on all side, foreign leaders on all side criticized this administration, this president, for not having the strategy. not this week, not this year, not over the past two years. i mean, how do we do. >> i don't think it's good for us. >> the president had with the strategy. >> we went through this before, we cynically let iran fight for yeerts. letting them fight. what it's done to jordan. it's unbelievable. a million people sitting there. perhaps undermineing the kingdom. all this happening while it's going. we can't live with the status quo. maybe there is help with finding, which is what diplomacy is, finding the common interest between us and the russians. >> before you go to the negotiating table you have to know what you said, chris, what's your goal? what's your end point? what are you going to ask of us more? we don't know. do we want assad to stay there? do they want him to leave?

they can't answer that question. >> i think what you are seeing in the polls is this extraordinary, yes, it's a 12-year tiredness, you can go to tonka, it's a 50-year weariness with the idea we project force for theoretical reasons, a domino theory. you set a principle about chemical weapons. >> what about afghanistan? we have been told we are in afghanistan for three more years because of pakistan. >> the one operation that was popular and only when it was successful was the gulf war and that was actually at least that was troops moving back below the line. >> your question the president would argue no proliferation and for the terrorist itself and if you look at no failed states, no terrorists, no proliferation, that's where he has drawn some red lean from terms of foreign policy. >> all right. everyone stay with us if you can.

coming up, we will get the table's reaction to the mayoral primaries and eliot spitzers not surprising law as well. yes. >> red lean. >> yes, we do. >> that's as far as we get this morning. >> good. thank you, anthony weiner. >> they missed the daily double. [ male announcer ] what?! investors could lose tens of thousands of dollars in hidden fees on their 401(k)s?! go to e-trade and roll over your old 401(k)s to a new e-trade retirement account. none of them charge annual fees and all of them offer low cost investments. e-trade. less for us. more for you.

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. >> tonight before so many friends, i say this, what we have achieved here tonight and what we'll do in the next round of this campaign won't just change the view of how things look inside city hall but will clang the policies that have left behind so many of our fellow new yorkers outside of city hall. >> all right. that's bill deblasio who looks like he took to the primary last night. >> on 9/11, a beautiful shot of new york city, t.j., of course, takes the shot. >> there it is. >> it is beautiful. >> yeah, it is a nice shot, the distant shot going past the statue of liberty, never mind, i'm not going to direct from my chair. >> it was a race, by the way, anthony weiner didn't win. >> he ended in weiner style. >> he showing a part of his body. his middle finger. >> come on. >> flipping off an nbc reporter

in gotham and there ends the political career of anthony weiner, saying to himself, i'm still number one in my heart. chris, you said new yorkers have a shot at the daily double last night and they decide not. >> i thought spitzer, i said he run a decent campaign compared to the other guy. he got low numbers. i said it for the respected love for that city. i think the more the worse it would have looked. i think it's interesting, though, after five terms of relatively conservative government, i this i is relatively successful government to have fun again. i hope they don't go back to dinkens, that was the one time awas with them all the way. when someone gets killed, dinkens says i'm having an everyone handed view. he was killed by the mob. i always go back to this. in angelica theater in the vinl,

a hip movie theater. there was a barnes and noble theater there. i was there with my kids years ago, rudy was in office. i said for the first time in my life i feel welcome in new york city. it's safe. you don't have to look over your shoulder. i said, that's rudy. you also didn't smell pea in the subway. >> that changed. >> except when you go to wide line with me, then you may. so andrea, are you a new yorker, i remember reading a rolling stone interview in it must have been 1988 of woody allen around '87, '88. woody allen was reminisceing about the new york where you used to be able to walk the streets at night, which, of course, you remember, '88, '89, '91, '92 it was new york at its worst. i remember reading that going

well that must have been a cool city to live in. it changed leak that. it's been like that. liberals who never voted for a republican in their lives gladly voted for guiliani, gradually voted for bloomberg. things are going to be interesting in this city. >> things will be very challenging, because we don't foe deblasio whether he has a runoff or not. i can't imagine joe lhota a republican winning in this head-to-head once it is head-to-head. it will be very traffictious. -- fractious. bloomberg has been able fund it anonymously out of his own pocket. yes, stop and frisk. what is ray kelly going to do? this is really going to be a turning point. deblasio, look, i wish -- >> is he key, kelly? >> he's not. >> stop and frisk. >> it was a key moment.

a key campaign piece. >> we will see some interesting developments in the crime rate. >> we have some historical points. >> i wish you would. >> there are two from 20 to 30. i love that. i think the two most famous rude jess dhurs finger gestures have come from know, in politics. rocky and car loss -- >> let's not compare. >> jackie mason. >> that iconic shot of rocky. >> can i be cool about that compared to car loss dangers blinking off his toe pass going into security. >> coming up next the debate on what to do in syria continues. we'll be asking the questions to our nashville liss torian, do remote airstrikes work? that is being debated by two top military minds

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>> joining us in new york, last night as part of the intelligence squared series, they debated america's use of drones in the global fight against terror. gentleman, it's good to have you both on the show this morning. admiral blair, i'll start with you. first of all on the topic at hand and did the president make any case that you found effective last night? >> not to me. i certainly believe that the use of chemical weapons is a terrible thing. i would like to see a much wider discussion of the totality of the interests involved in this situation. >> kail weston and you.

>> i believe the american people are leading the issue. that's a good thing. i think the questions are still very significant. i think the president did his best. it's been a complicated issue to clarify in a few minutes. i'm re-assured the american people should take a stand on whether or not we should go in. >> john meacham. >> admiral blair, you spent a lot of time thinking of potentially rogue nations in the pacific and other places. to your mind, what do you make of the precedent question if there is not retaliatory action it might encourage other rogue states to use these kind of weapons? >> well, the best thing to do is to tike smart and tough action with rogue regimes. they watch each other. they learn from each other. you don't take action just for the sake of taking action. if it's ineffective or doesn't

succeed they draw lessons from that one, too. if you look at the effect on iran's north koreas, the other rogue nations around the country, our handling of syria and what assad gets away with and what he doesn't, how tough we are, how effective we are matters a great deal. >>let talk about drones. you guys debated drones and they impacted drone warfare. kael. >> we lost the debate, but i think we have some strong arguments. i think the admiral and i are closer on the issues than maybe came across last night. drones is a tactic. it's not a strategy. if you listen to the afghans and the arabs and the parts of the world where we're bombing, they are telling us it's hurting u.s. national security interests and i tend to listen to them maybe more than what's coming out of washington. >> admiral. >> well, i agree that drones are

a tactic. as you know, i have been critical of some aspects of our drone policies for several years but on balance i think that properly used, they're an extremely effective tool in killing the enemies of the united states who we can't deal with by other means and they can be used in a very discriminant way to accomplish that goal with a men mum of killing innocent people along with them. which is what causes the resentment against their use. >> admiral dennis blair, kael weston, thank you very much. up next, inside the construction of 1 world trade t. argument joins willie at ground zero. that's next. you are watching "morning joe." [ male announcer ] this is jim, a man who doesn't stand still. but jim has afib, atrial fibrillation -- an irregular heartbeat, not caused by a heart valve problem. that puts jim at a greater risk of stroke.

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>> going back into the sky is really important. that's something that was taken away and it's appropriate to put it back. to show that the life in the city goes on and is more powerful than the forces that attacked it. >> its creators hopes and dreams are riding on it being not only the highest, but the safest, most innovative and beautiful skyscraper in america. >> i feel a great sense of

accomplishment. this is a strong visual image of our resilience coming back of this terrible tragedy. >> that's a clip from the pbs nova documentary ground zero super tower that airs tonight. you saw david chiles. he is design partner at som, the group that designed this tower behind us. good to see you this morning. >> good to see you. >> there is so much talk and controvercy about why it took so long. you heard it all. i don't have to remind you. you said i am surprised it came up this fast. >> underground from grade to bedrock, 80 feet. that's the most complicated building down here. the acreage filled with very highly detailed. just to do that and plus all these super tall building and complicated construction, it's amazeing it happened.

>> what was the concept you started with? you put a piece of paper down and a pen, what did you want to achieve? >> the thing that hit me was in new york like the great gothic cathedral towns of europe, you see that speier, you know that was the town. there is no way to know where ground zero was. the memorial. that's the most important building. this is the marker for that. people in new jersey coming in or from 42nd street. you know where this is. it's a simple iconic marker of one of the most important roles. >> you said something interesting. you are working a firm two blocks from here and somebody said are the towers going to fall and you said no way. >> i did. this young man with tears coming

down his street, i said no. never had a building in the history of steel construction fallen down from fire. if had hadn't been knocked over. they were not. i knew we would go and put out the fire. it's the complicated construction of the old towers and they didn't with stand that heat. >> thanks for being here and we look forward to the tower. back to you. >> thank you. andrea mitchell, thank you. i guess you have your 1:00 p.m. show and you are hitting the road. >> the show is mike rogers and debbie wassermann shuttle and then in geneva. we just got back. >> i'm tired for you. >> then "hardball." i love it. >> that are flock of people. >> i love that show. >> my new home.

>> thank you, chris. >> dd meyers joins us along with lawrence o'donnell. "morning joe" will be right back. helicopthierhis hibuzzing, andk engine humming. sfx: birds chirping sfx: birds chirping [ female announcer ] with the weight watchers app you have the power of weight watchers. and helpful tools like the pizza cheat sheet so you can make the most of any situation. what can i get you? i'll have that one. even saturday nights. and the barcode scanner so weekend road trips don't mean losing your way. you can lose weight and still live big. get the app today when you join weight watchers online. hurry, join by september 14th and get one month free.

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sfx: birds chirping. . >> to my friends on the right, i ask you to reconcile your commitment to america's military might with a failure to act when a cause is so plainly just. to my friends on the left, i ask

you to reconcile your belief in freedom and dignity for all people with those images of children writhing in pain and going still on a cold hospital floor. sometimes resolutions and statements of condemn nation are simply not enough. >> welcome back to "morning joe." john meachem and david gregory are with us. press secretary under president clinton and contributing editor to "vanity fair," dee dee meyers joins us and the host of msnbc's the last word. >> here to comment is lawrence o'donnell. >> we are not going to do that. >> here's what's fun ny about te final gesture. are we blurring the finger? it's one of these. there is a picture and we at m is, nbc believe america cannot

see that finger so we blur that finger he is holding up. >> i have to say it's not just for people outside the building. we show the picture of chuck todd standing beside gregory. >> it's company policy. >> all right. let's get to the top story this morning. president obama is asking congress to -- >> i fell in love with chuck that moment. that's my kind of guy. >> when lawrence said what is wrong with you, i had a similar feeling. >> president obama is asking congress to postpone a vote as a possible deal to hand over chemical weapons. last night the president acknowledged war fatigue under afghanistan and iraq. the president repeated no boots on the ground and a limited operation. he also spoke about his vision for america's role in the world. >> for nearly seven decades, the united states has been the

anchor of global security. this meant doing more than forging international agreements. it has meant enforcing them. our ideals and principals as well as our national security are at stake in syria. along with our leadership of a world where we seek to ensure that the worst weapons will never be used. america is not the world's policeman. terrible things happen across the globe and it is beyond our means to right every wrong. but when with modest effort and risk we can stop children from being gassed to death and there by make our own children safer over the long run, i believe we should act. that's what makes america different. that's what makes us exceptional. with humility and with resolve, let us never lose sight of that essential truth.

>> there was immediate reaction to president obama's speech. brit hume called it a speech in search of a purpose. the administration saber rattling felt like knees rattling from when obama was leading for behind. now they are leading boy slip of the tongue. he failed on syria and failed to explain the strikes. his leadership led him to the exact place he never wanted to be, unilateral instead of unified. >> the president in the face of the 16 minute address, he spent the first 12 minutes arguing for the merits of syria and then put it on hold. >> the "wall street journal," what a fiasco. the weak and inconsistent president claimed a defeat for his syria policy is really a

triumph. >> "the washington post" editorial board called it stumbling, improvised and inconsistent. it was a zag zag address to clarify what was coming next, but shined a flairing hot light in the debate. >> national good news. we are not at war. the bad news is almost everything else about the handling of syria under cut his credibility and with it the ability to lead the nation and world. >> lawrence o'donnell. not rex reed. in not one of those pieces is there a single paragraph of advice on how to do this president. not one has a better idea of what the president outlined. there seems to be in that

collective cry a desire for that good old fashioned george w. bush certainty. we are going in. we will not take yes for an answer. >> we are going to bomb them. >> i think he did what he had it do. i don't think he had any options in this situation. if they did not respond to the developments with russia and syria, they would have looked absurd. >> the editorial board said the president found himself a hole last night, larmly of his own digging. i don't think that's fair. >> what are choice did he have? what is the world's view of chemical weapons. not to say that is a red line and what choice did he have not to eventually react once there was. >> he didn't have to go to congress if if he didn't know the out come.

>> he basically said this does not meet what would be necessary under the war powers act. he didn't use the phrase war powers. it was a space in the little where he outlined every element. he said it's not there. that's his view. he doesn't think he can do it. >> let's do an l.a. to l.a. >> i think dee dee, especially with your own experience, this is not just about sequencing, but a disorganized policy because it's so difficult to manage. what's the political assessment right now? he has room with diplomacy that may work out well and gives him political space. >> one of the things, he made the case and said it was in our -- it's our ideals that require us to do something about syria and our national security and our leadership in the world. what if this diplomatic

initiative doesn't work out? he made the case that he has to strike. he never said what the consequences were. they allowed themselves to be participated into a corn. a strike of some kind was the only option. if reports were on the table and they suggest he has been talking to putin and others about how to get rid of syria's chemical weapons, what do we do? there was never a conversation about what the other options were besides military. he allows himself to be participated into a kosher. what's the timeline and how much time does he have for this effort to work? what are the options? >> he said american exceptionalism and the moral out range and the anger of global security, how does he not act given the stakes he raised about what it means for the country. >> in his own explanation. >> there was a lost reaction

from both sides to president obama's address. let's take a look. >> 12 years after we were attacked by al qaeda. 12 years after 3,000 americans were killed by al qaeda, president obama asks us to be allies with al qaeda. >> this is impossible for him not to react if diplomacy fails no the to act. if diplomacy fails, he is painting himself into a corner. >> i still haven't heard from the president of the united states in is it ends two, three, and four. what are the consequences if we use this force. there those of us that are concerned that injecting ourselves into syria has consequences. that has not been thoroughly discussed. >> i sure don't believe that the assad regime will use the weapons with the eyes of the world on top of him and we were able to bring that about by diplomatic and not by dropping

missiles. the support is just not there. that means we have to find other options. >> the president frankly has been rolled on the issue, but we have an obligation to push forward and have landmarks out there and timelines to say in a week we expect this, this, this to be done. then these things have to be done. we see this as a stall tactic. >> we didn't really see a lot of democrats there. >> we saw one. >> i thought the president yesterday afternoon was fascinating when he talked about the president's credibility. not only credibility, but his presidency was on the line if he went and got rejected in a way no commander in chief had since woodrow wilson. it's telling and talking about the possible implications of domestic politics. peter baker was reporting that

the democrats were talking to the president about members of the white house who said we need this vote for the president's credibility so he can continue fighting on obama care. we have come to that stage and it happens to all presidents, but here years in. the democrats are not even being swayed boy the argument. >> it's good news that that was an unmoving argument. we should not project force into the most volatile of region where is we learned hard lessons in humility. >> good news if are the count radioy and not good news if are the president. where a president's reputation is on the line internationally and good news for his own party. usually they go okay. >> think about 1990.

1990-that lives in glowing memory, 54-56. intense debate in his party. senators said if this goes badly, you will be in deep, deep trouble constitutionally. we had intense debates about profection of force. we should have these debates because it is so important. i think the president has put himself in a position in an incredibly difficult situation. he made it more difficult for himself politically, but last night he gave a fairly, under the circumstances, he did the best he could. he created the circumstances. >> that's what my parents used to say about me. my reality. 9

974 on my sat. that's the best i could do. >> i really believe this is what we've got. these are the facts and he has to find a way out. yes, he's at 43 or 44%. the numbers are moving down. everything get faster and the second term is not great. he accelerated that. >> he referred to the vote in the congress to support the first pb. there was no politicking of it. people's motivation was not questioned on one side or the other. strong arguments on both sides. people came down where they came down. on this credibility thing and the effect on domestic politics,

let's remember that george h.w. bush got the highest recorded approval rating after he went in and pushed saddam out of kuwait in record time. he then went on to be defeated by bill clinton months later in effect. the translatability of i did this in foreign policy and i want this in domestic policy is not there. >> to add to that, i would add the question to david or the panel. this is a approximate the who sat smiling at the correspondent's dinner while he was killing osama bin laden. is this stumbling and they feel we are not going to act if we are threatened? really? what is this? >> i don't think it's that. if you are the president right now in a very difficult spot, you are focused on do you have

it out here. the out through a combination of forces. maybe putin seeing an opening and maybe you get an out come you didn't imagine you would like and you can avoid all of this which you may lose. meaning an attempt to get authorization for military strike or a military strike that can lead to a lot of scenarios. that's where the president is right now. what is also true is that this diplomatic path is cynical enough and invites enough skepticism that you have to think about what happens next is and is he moving. >> i don't disagree with that. >> compare barack obama with bill clinton on this. where you say oh, my gosh, i couldn't imagine bill clinton doing that. >> clinton was skillful at

thinking things through. what the limitations of the international community would be and he was looking at decision making through their own political realities and the pressures they lived in. i didn't see a president obama doing that. what we saw was not him gaining out the whole court, but having this debate in his head. i think that's pretty unusual for a president. it was emotional and we saw him wrestling even in that moment. >> it was an emotional speech at times, but he was debating himself. >> yes. you see he was trying to convince himself. that's not what you want to use a presidential address for. >> maybe. john meachem. >> spin it back six months or a year. if you were in the president's shoes, how would you handle this? >> six months or a year ago

some. >> going forward. >> what would i do going forward? i would continue on the diplomatic path and do something that bill clinton would do that barack obama hasn't done. he will bring everybody in. a guy he had problems with, i would hug joe mansion and say you showed us the way forward. way to go. at 45 days, i think we will get those 45 days and i would start working knowing that vladimir putin lies and my secretary of state compared assad to adolph hitler a few weeks ago or this past week. this is probably not going to work. i hope it does, but it's probably not going to work. i'm going to box congress in. i'm going to fire the missiles. i'm going to go and ask for for giveness instead of permission and we will move on. >> it's one example where

obama's relationships or lack there of will cause him dprooef. if if he had stronger deeper relationships, he would have had more information and the decision making would have been -- >> you know what's important about that? the goal is to win. this should be a successful military campaign. that's the goal. it has to be a successful political campaign as well. you get the impression that what the president wants was to have a good debate. that's not a strategy for winning which is to win in syria whatever you define the mission to be. >> you have people that support the president starting to back off with all of the back and the forth and the unbelievably small -- >> they move with more information every day. who would come out yesterday and

say i made up my mind. i'm in favor of the strike. as the whole situation is moving, the russians start to move. what undecided side going to move in favor? >> you become more likely to react to the moral crime as time goes on. do you lose momentum if more time goes on? you might. >> david gregory, thank you very much. it's been five years since the financial melt down. have we done enough to make sure it doesn't happen again? is the former chair of the fdic sheila bair is here. my guess is she will say no. >> levy summers may be the fed chair and he is completely disconnected from wall street. maybe we will turn that page. >> next, is there a right choice for the president in syria or a bunch of less bad options.

michael hayden will join us. here's bill with a check on the forecast. >> a lot of debate over syria, but not the hurricane season. it has been tame over recent standards. we have a hurricane that formed far out in the atlantic. humberto is are z threat to any land areas. this is as far away as it can get. it kicks out to sea and no concerns at all. one thing that was interested, late sunday and early monday over the skies of georgia and alabama, there was a huge flash in the air. this was a meteorite and this was a broit one seen by a lot of people and a good of good videos. there it is in space. my friends in the southeast has been explaining they want to get rid of the humidity. the humidity crept up the east coast back to chicago and

dallas. it feels like the middle of summer with hot conditions. relief is on the way through canada and by the weekend, much of the great lakes will feel that relief and a little bit in the southeast. today in the oven, ac is cranked on high from dallas to d.c. it will be 95 and humid. on this 12-year anniversary, our thoughts are with all the families that suffered travesty on 9 of had 11. you are watching "morning joe." [ female announcer ] we lowered her fever. you raise her spirits. we tackled your shoulder pain. you make him rookie of the year. we took care of your cold symptoms. you take him on an adventure. tylenol® has been the number 1 doctor recommended brand of pain reliever for over 20 years. but for everything we do, we know you do so much more.

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there no reports of any casualties. the assault on the consulate left four dead last year. the former director of the cia and nsa and a global security advisory firm retired general michael hayden back to us. >> your reaction to the president's speech. >> the best that could be done under the circumstances. on the happened and on the other hand. my wife will kill me for using a sports metaphor, but it's at a crucial point in the game and the quarterback lost control of the huddle. >> i like this metaphor. >> he gets it. >> and he let the clock run out

at halftime. >> almost. the line men are arguing and the field judge, pokes his head in and said we are breaking into a time out. after the commercial break in two or three minutes, we are coming back to the field and have to have a play called. >> was that good to lay it out for the country? >> he was necessary. he boxed himself in with his time table. that was not the speech he intended to give. i can only imagine when the speech writers looked like at 5:00 in the afternoon. he lays out a case with the remnants of the first speech. here's a president willing to go unilateral and put his arm around them and say i will stop and we will see how this other development works out. >> he's also facing a

humiliating defeat in the house and the senate. it's not only bad for the president, but america's reputation across the globe. >> there is a linchpin where the threat of military action got us to this point. i believe that's true. therefore the logical step would continue to go to the hill for the endorsement that ramps up the pressure to get the political sentiment you want. he can't because he doesn't have the votes. he wouldn't get it so he would back off. >> i think we are at this juncture to look ahead of the options. what do you think of the russian angle. my father pointed the out there was center testrategic interest. >> we can rely on the russian motivation. they still want to be a player.

the core goal is to share that they have influence in parts of the world. that's good. let's try to leverage that. i think this is a very low probability shot. i think this is almost impossible to implement. if you ask me how much knowledge do we have of where this stuff is, i would probably give you a 70 to 80% range. you can imagine the implementation, but if you pull it off, the real goal is it doesn't solve the assad could use chemical weapons problem, but the real chemical weapons problem. what happens to the stuff after he falls. >> a huge pay off. >> how do you uncross the red line. >> if you can establish control over the weapons and keep them from being used, to me it doesn't punish them. you let the death of 1400 people

pass, but you really have solved it. >> in your experience then, if the negotiations fail and just come to a stalemate, everyone is saying the option then is the military strike. let's go ahead. you just said you probably maybe know where 70% of the stuff is. everything we know about their chemical weapons and a military strike indicate that the military strike won't be really effective in any way and won't put a boot on the ground to mop up this stuff. the military strike is an inferior option. we are not going to say okay, we have a better idea now. what we are going to say is we have a worse idea. let's try that. >> again, if this plan works, it's much better. the verbs we use are deter and

degrade. i put my monodeter, not degrade. in a sense we have, but i don't know that that has a sense of pe permenance. we may go after the systems, but we will try to punish him and dissuade him from doing this in the future. >> we learned about the psychology. they were not admitting that they had chemical weapons and now all of a sudden he is willing to admit he has them, but negotiate them away. >> the foreign minster was in moscow and kind of stated this. let's see what the government actually says as we get into play. how does bashir explain this? they don't have these weapons to win a civil war. hay have these weapons because they believe israel has nuclear weapons. that's why they have them.

now how does he explain i will give up the whole card. this could quickly turn into a dwmd debate of the eastern mediterranean. >> thank you. it's good to have you on the show again. coming up, have we learned lessons from the wall street collapse years ago? sheila bair is here to answer that question and many more. you are watching "morning joe." let's do some serious curb appeal.

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five years ago the u.s. economy was in the precipice of utter ruin. sheila knows. a couple of things you said that i think bear expanding. one, the system is still fragile and we have a lot more to do. >> the system is still fragile. it's safer than it was. that's not setting a really high bar. banks have a lot of leverage. that i have about 3.5 to 4% capital. >> they have more capital. >> more capital. >> too highly leveraged? >> why. >> the regulators need to force them to reach more dap tcapital. we need to go higher. what's out there will get another $90 billion in. i would like that to at least

double. it's tough. the banks fight back and the lobbying is relendless. everything they try to do will hurt credit and increase the cost and hurt economic recovery. >> good news is you have to be relieved about summers coming in as bank chair. >> that was an answer. >> yeah. i will say that regulation is as important as monetary policy. the fed got the lion share of before the crisis. i really hope we have someone who is committed to meaningful reform and that main street has confidence independent of the big banks. >> what happened to caution in the financial community? it used to be this was one of the centers of caution. we are a bank and we will be careful with how we handle this.

>> money. bonuses. >> it's greed. >> i think you need to distinguish between the institutions of the trading and the traditional banks did not do too badly. they are doing the lion's share. the ability to turn a short-term profit which will juice up the term on equity. that really just assumed the culture. it's unfortunate and i would like to get back to a time that put the customers first. the regulators need to show more leadership. >> you would like to see more capitalization. what else needs to happen to strengthen the system? >> we need to get less on short-term funding. they have minimum requirements for long-term too. that gives the more stable

balance sheet and makes sure there is more loss absorption capacity. >> is failure possible? >> sure. there is always a bonehead out there. i don't think there is anything future, but with quantitative easing possible, you will have volatility of people who have not managed the banks well. >> who are the leaders in this? >> you have a lot of courageous people. we have a good chunk, almost half of interest rates are down. it was herculean on his part to get us there. dan is trying hard. his instincts are right and doesn't have the support he needs. he has the staff issues there that they need to deal with. i'm a big admirer of dan.

i don't agree with him on everything, but ben like the rest of the board focused on policy and not enough about regulatory policy. that doesn't work well if you have banks over the leverage. >> what are bank is the most overleveraged? it's the former. >> give us a bank that is a good example of how it should be done over the past five years. a big bank. >> that's hard too. i think i criticized them a lot. i think there is a new culture at citi. they are trying to downsize and get more into a traditional banking operation. that's good. morgan stanley made a lot of progress. none are perfect yet. there has been progress there. the regional banks and you see this in shareholder concerns

too, but they have more stable balance sheets and do more lending. >> it is always a pleasure to have you on the show. we are waiting on president obama and the first lady at the white house. they are about to leave the nation in a moment of silence to mark the 12th anniversary of the september 11th attacks. we'll be right back with live coverages. ♪ no two people have the same financial goals. pnc investments works with you to understand yours and helps plan for your retirement. talk to a pnc investments financial advisor today. ♪

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. >> it is 44 past the hour. welcome become to a special part of "morning joe." america remembers 9/11. these are live pictures of ground zero where you can imagine 12 years ago today, nearly 3,000 americans lost their lives. the commemoration of that moment begins in just a minute when president obama and first lady michelle obama plan to lead a moment of silence at the white house. this will be marking the very first time the plane struck the north tower. later at 9:30 a.m. eastern time, the president will participate

in a replaying service at the pentagon remembering all those lost there and lost in shanksville, pennsylvania. the attacks changed everything for us. iter to apart lives and families and put our nation on the path to war. a war that would last more than a decade. two wars. the president will be making remarks along with defense secretary chuck hagel and martin dempsey. they will be looking at where we have gone from here. remembering what happened 12 years ago today. 12 years since the trade towers fell. since we watched people falling to their deaths, jumping to their deaths and escaping the burning towers and doing everything they can to try and get away from the flames inside. those moments are seared in our national memory and our minds. we remember 12 years later it's

important to remember to never forget the people who were lost and those who worked in the weeks and weeks and weeks at ground zero trying to remember and bring together pieces of people's lives and memories. here now is the moment of silence. the first when the first plane hit.

>> that was the first moment of silence marking the beginning of the attacks on the world trade towers. there will be a second moment of silence to mark when the second plane hit at ground zero. we want to remember the sacrifices that our military families make every day for our country, especially since the trade towers were attacked. the men and women who sacrificed their lives and families during the wars in iraq and afghanistan, they are a constant topic of conversation.

we always worried their sacrifices weren't given enough honor and respect. two years ago for the tenth anniversary of 9/11, you may recall joe wrote a song, reason to believe. it honored those families whose lives had been forever impacted by the terror ataxes. here now once jen is reason to believe. ♪ in the flash of an hour watching dreams fall from towers ♪ ♪ all i once knew came tumbling down ♪ ♪ now that faith is on the wall is a ghost in the hall ♪

♪ of a place where he never comes round ♪ ♪ and what would you guess about a stranger's caress that reminds me of one we used to be ♪ ♪ at the end of the hour when i'm drained of all power ♪ i still find a reason to believe ♪ >> i'd sit listening a len to that message on the phone. ♪ instead ♪ he said a prayer then he whispered goodbye ♪ ♪ now our boy is a man and i call him when i can ♪

♪ how i hope that he don't hear me cry ♪ ♪ and what would you guess about a stranger's caress ♪ ♪ that reminds me of one we used to be ♪ ♪ at the end of the hour when i'm drained of all power ♪ ♪ i still find a reason to believe ♪ ♪ and still i cry under

negotiate skeapt skies ten years gone, but my nightmare goes on ♪ ♪ in an endless war, me how many more have to die before my sweet boy comes home ♪ ♪ and what would you guess about a stranger's caress ♪ ♪ that reminds me of what we used to be ♪ ♪ at the end of the hour when i'm drained of all power ♪ ♪ i still find a reason to believe ♪ ♪ at the end of the hour when i'm drained of all power i still find a reason to believe ♪

>> and our deepest respect to all those who sacrificed. now it's time. we now bring you an msnbc living history event, coverage from nbc's "today" show, the day of the attacks as it unfolded, minute by minute. this all happened live on our airwaves 12 years ago today. here now the msnbc special, as it happened. ♪ >> we have a breaking news story to tell you about. apparent low a plane has just

crashed into the world trade center here in new york city. we have very little information available at this point in time, but on the phone we have jennifer who apparently witnessed this event. jennifer, can you hear me? >> caller: hello? >>. >> hi, jennifer? can you tell me what you saw and give me information about what's going on there. >> caller: it's quite terrifying. i'm in shock. i came out of the subway heading to work at battery park at the ritz carlton hotel. i heard a plane and there was a big ball of fire. i'm looking north at the world trade center and it is the left twin tower. oim in battery park right now and you can hear the fire engineers and the emergency crews behind me. it is unbelievable. when the fire first burst. hello? >> we can hear you.

ca>> caller: i have never seen y fire like this in the air. pieces of the building were flying down. it looks like the top -- i can't even tell you. maybe 20 floors. intense smoke. it's horrible. up can't describe it. >> do you know what kind of plane it was? >> caller: i'm sorry? >> do you know what hit the world trade center? >> caller: what it was? >> what kind of plain. we heard an airplane hit the building. >> caller: i department know that. i was wa i saw a big boom and fire. we were saying it's interesting it would be a bomb so high up. perhaps it was a plane. we have no idea. there is still things flying in the air. it's mind-boggling and it's horrifying. >> it's ma