to do okay. they had no idea what was going on. >> you have to be careful what he said at 6:15 in the morning. >> 9 or 12 or 2:00 in the afternoon. >> it's time for chuck todd and "the daily rundown." >> take it away, chuck. >> five years after the crash, five years after an enormous push by washington to change the ways of wall street. with the marks soring and the banks cashing in, has anything changed to prevent it from happening again. a special discussion with the major player who is tried to fix this historic economic mess and a look at the still growing divide between main street and wall street. also this morning, another heart breaking hit for the jersey shore as a fire destroys a landmark boardwalk that had just rebuilt after super storm sandy. across the country, col readio's

fatal floods are causing evacuations size rain is coming down out west. we will hear from the governors of both states in about an hour. on this friday the 13th, this is "the daily rundown." back to my first reads of the morning. five years ago sunday, lehman brothers sent shock waves to the economy and setting off the chain of events that sent the nation into the great depression and caused a global collapse. >> what's been called the worst financial crisis in modern times certainly the largest financial disaster in decades in this country. >> the 6th biggest point drop in history. >> this is one of the ugh lowest days i have seen in my career. >> with $613 billion in debt on the books, lehman is by far the largest bankruptcy ever in the country. >> for eight years, we had policies that shredded consumer

protections. they loosened oversight and regulation. >> our economy i think still the fundamentals are strong, but these are very, very difficult times. >> the federal government rescues insurance giant aig to the tune of $85 billion. >> we are in the midst of a serious crisis. the federal government is responding with decisive action. >> during the years that followed, president bush and his successor, president obama struggled to right the economy. they passed a sweeping reform bill. they required federal agencies to write 398 rules to put the provisions into effect. president obama promised that the big bonus culture and reckless bets and risky leverage would be a thing of the past. >> the american people will never again be asked to foot the bill for wall street's mistakes. >> now five years later, though the nation is on much more solid

footing, the data remains mixed while wall street bounces back and recovery has been slower and americans are feeling the stagnation. the dow closed up from a low in march of 2009. far above where it was five years ago, the unemployment rate rocketed from 6.1% in august to a high of 10% a year later. it's come down andit ises at about 7.3%. more than 46 million americans live below the poverty line, that's more than 10 million more. median household income is below where it was below the crash. $52,000 a year. executive compensation continues to rise. while the numbers may be better, americans are feeling the disconnect and are pessimistic about upward mobility. 47% of americans who call themselves poor or working class only 29% thought it was fairly

likely that they would move into the middle class. the lowest percentage in our poll since july 2012. 52% disapprove of how the president is handling the economy. the highest number ever for him on that question. we asked americans to rate their personal happiness, that's more than ten points lower than before the crash. one thing is for sure, wall street remains tremendously unpopular. 14% viewed theentity favorably. joining me now, one of the architects, chris dodd of connecticut. sheila bair and ken feinberg who served as president obama's watch dog for the institutions that received the largest chunks of the federal bailout. here's where we are. five years later.

could this happen again? do we think this could happen again? one financial institution. since there is no lehman brothers. could it bring down the lexicon? >> i don't want to say never and there will be crisis. nothing we ever did will preclude the economic crisis. the question is will he metastasize or grow from a serious problem beginning in the residential mortgage market and grow into what you described here this morning. what we hope we have done by setting up the federal financial oversight boards and protection bureau and giving the federal reserve much more additional powers and closing down the shadow banking system and including financial institutions beyond the banking sector. these are all major provisions of the bill. none of them have been tested yet. the bureau is, wooing. we hope we have done it well and

only time will tell whether you achieved the results. it comes up with new architecture and the financial services sector. you have been talking about it for decades and never the energy behind it to do something. >> you wrote the law and have to see how it implements. when will we know dodd frank works and the new regulation will work. how do we know? >> the new regulations are very much a work in progress. that's unfortunate. dodd frank was a good law, but it gave the regulators a lot of authority and i would not have to give good great grades so far. there is a lot of lo lobbying against the rules. they are watered down and have a lot of exceptions. they are working hard, but really they need to just show leadership here and come and get the rules finished. the law is only as good as the rules will be.

>> ken feinberg, you were in charge of trying to deal with this bonus issue. it goz this larger question. the american public is acting as if they learned their lesson. borrowing less and being more careful saving. it doesn't look like wall street learned their lesson. am i wrong or they don't see they were as big of a problem as we maybe in the media or the american public thinks they were. >> i agree with that. my role as the pay czar remember was limited to 175 individual corporate officials. in just seven companies. it was a side show. historically and up to the r7b9 moment, a wall street and main street have always been widely changing in views and deceptions. you will see this executive

compensation and you will see a very little control over how corporate officials pay their own. that's the free market and the world we live in. >> this is where the push and pull is and the liberal populous want to say hey, let's see control on this. on one hand they don't like it either, but they don't want government messing around. >> yeah. one of the provisions in at this time bill is giving a say on pay. it's a lot less than some wanted. >> that was the shareholder. >> you have a right every three years to vote on whether or not you get compensation for the team is appropriate. some did put the previsions before dodd frank.

some got watered down and there is movement in pays rather than risk-based salaries. people were being rewarded for taking risks and part of the big risk was paying a price for that. getting more to performance based salaries is where i think we are headed. i hope we are headed. that would be good news. >> what's the state of the mid-sized banking industry. you see mixed bag on one hand. a bunch went under. >> less than 5%. it appeared to the large institutions. we did louz about 400 miles there. >> what is the status here? are you better off going to citibank or the community bank? >> we need to look at the capitalization levels and how they treat their customers. they tend to have higher capital and if you get into a downturn,

they will keep extending you credit. they will pull back on the credit lines and not continue extending credit into the downturn. that's the first thing. if thank you look at loan balances, the small and medium and the smaller banks are doing the most of the lending increases right now. loan balances are the largest institutions that are flat actually. not much. >> did you want more power? >> no. as senator dodd will tell you, what i did was largely congressional populous revenge following the t.a.r.p. bailout. >> no one went to jail. instead of sending people to jail, you cut their pay. >> we did by sometimes up to 90%. it was limited. >> still above middle class income even when you did that. that's the irony here according to our view as the little class income. >> that's right, but you say should the treasury department

have more power, everyone agreed even at the time that government should not be determining and calculating and deciding how much a private corporate official should make. what dwee do and we did it effectively at the time is what senator dodd said. we in our recommendations and determinations maed it clear, no cash guarantees or very little and most of the compensation in the form of stock in your own company which will be valued over a period of time and no private jets and no special generous things. we had a limited number of corporate officials. >> i will smoke in a grape and continue this investigation on the other side. a special edition and the expert panel from years ago. five years after too big to fail became a household phrase. first a look ahead at the

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it's been three years since dodd frank was passed. the biggest banks are bigger than ever. the risk to the system has grown. what i want to know is how much longer should congress wait for regulators to fix this problem? do we wait another three months? another three years? until the next big bank comes crashing down and threatens the entire economy? >> that was elizabeth warren and now u.s. senator who was also

one of the players, if you will, of critics at the time during the clean up of the financial crisis. ken feinberg who served as president obama's executive pay czar and fdic chair, sheila behr fighting to save main street and main street from itself. you still see on twitter and ken, you talked about being in charge of retribution and implementing the retribution for congress. were there people that should have gone to jail? when you were dealing with this pay, were you going man, i'm dealing with this guy's salary. these people should have gone to jail. did you feel that way? >> i certainly did feel that way and continue to feel that way. i am not investigating these folks in terms of criminal misconduct or whatever, but i think the american people remain justifiably upset.

they read the newspapers and don't see retribution in the form of investigation. whether the evidence was there, i can't say. of course it's understandable that people feel that way. >> sheila, you had to wind down the banks and institutions and you were a regulator. did you say that? >> we sent a lot of cases to them. i think for the smaller banks, our process is based on the banky failing. there was no process in place to go after these guys. dodd frank ends that. strict low on one bailout. i think it will work and it's real and it's there. the three-year claw back. if you lose your job, you are subject to a claw back of all personal compensation. the process can be harsh appropriately and we didn't have the tools them and one of the symptoms is it masked a lot. >> we have been throwing it and

it is amazing. compensation is higher than what it was precrash. the dow higher than it ever has been. we know main street median income has not recovered. more people than ever. not only did they not get punished, they are in better shape. >> the issues that we were trying to deal with and put radio you wills in place as sheila points out, most of the things that was done in that president of september are today illegal. the government can't do them. the point that joe was making which is a major reform and change and are not going to test this. we hope we never have to. >> answer elizabeth warren's critiques. >> again this was a big hunk. it's a major piece of legislation dealing with 100 years of no major reforms. i couldn't ask 535 members of

congress to write regulations. the acts after the depression were 25 pamgs long. they gave everything to the regulators. we tried to define it more narrowly 100 years ago. i am disappointed and i wanted to get it right rather than quick. quick and right is what i wellic to see. the guy from the treasury in the last week or so, the first part of next year. >> sheila is right on this. major parts of the bill require that the fed act. >> we will talk about the fed with both of you, but before we lose ken feinberg, he is the professor of all professors. how many different classes you teach. i know you have to get to class, but do you think the government needs to do more besides regulation. does the president need to offer up more and congress need to do

more to prevent a future collapse or future problem? >> that's big. i like to see the government do more. certainly in the regulatory side and if we had more sheila baires. what i learned on compensation is that a good part of the problem is the inability of regulators to have the tools that are now dodd frank and what sheila was trying to do with the smaller banks. government does have that. it's a bad word when you say government, but i tell you i think what we try to do five years ago and now seems to be the general trend with dodd frank and more effective regulation, i think that is important. you are never going to be able to satisfy main street when it comes to wall street pay. that goes back as you know to hamill and jefferson. it's always going to be that

way. it's always going to be that way. >> but there is supposed to be all those eventual low rise. right now you have people still feeling like they are sirpging. let me let you go to class. when i talk to you guys about the fed. we know where ben bernanke would be on this, but not if you had your druthers you would rather see janet. do you assume both will be interested in trying to get the regulation right? >> it's essential that they do. the monetary policy continues to be the top tier issue with the fed. the regulatory fed is second tier. dodd frank tried to elevate the regulatory responsibilities of the fed. i still think it's taken a back seat and most of the big rules they have to do. they have the authority.

>> do you think there will be a difference between the two? >> my guess is there a lot of good courageous rules they need to finalize and some need to be strengthened. they will have continuity and that's part of the process. >> i think for folks, this is not anti-larry. if janet leaves, a lot of people slow things down. >> one other point that sheila is making, the fed has the authority to break up institutions. >> yes, it does. >> but dodd frank gives the fed the authority -- >> i think they should have that over and above that. >> that's part of the quiver.

if i hear that one more time, the tough legislation gives you the tools and doesn't have to do it in every case. >> i was born at night, but not last night. >> you don't want to vote anymore. >> a new life. watch the bleachers. i will stay away. >> if it's a good enough drama. >> i have enough drama already. the point that sheila makes is an important one. you have changes here and they node to get this job. even if the president made the choice today, by the time they went through the process and after the first of the year. >> both of you are you worked in the senate for a long time before. you guys both know you -- you know the senate well. do you think the next fed chair has been public of a speculation than we have ever seen?

do you think it's the confirmation? >> i think there will be a discussion in monetary policy. i think it's appropriate. there is a choice that is not -- >> the public or not being critical. >> that discussion is appropriate. i don't think it should block and i don't think the views should block the confirmation. the about the gets to pick. it will be become here at the background and those qualificatio qualifications. if you block it, those are the things that would matter and not policy. the president gets to pick. >> do you think it will be a important fight? >> sheila made the good point about the supervise rae point of the fed. that i have not done a good job. you won't have a process without talking about the role of the fed and the wake of the events of the last five years. the policy debate and the regulatory debate will be a part of that.

different than the past. >> yes. that's true. >> a little trip down nightmare lane. you say memory lane, but i will continue this discussion with a few other people coming up. the diplomatic deal and how is it going in je 92 offa. live in switzerland and john kerry begins the second day of talks with the russians on serious chemical weapons and the utter devastation as fire destroys that boardwalk in new jersey. we will update ow what's going on in colorado. who is the most recent person as trashy secretary under more than one president. the first person to tweet the correct answer gets the on-air shout out. the answer and more is coming up on "the daily rundown." we'll be right back. has it's ups and downs.

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seeing the new devastation across the stretch of the jersey shore still recovering from super storm sandy. it engulfed nearly six blocks of the boardwalk. fire is under control after raging for hours. it took about 100 firefighters. we are still on the scene putting out hot spots this morning. this section of the boardwalk was rebuilt after super storm sandy. no estimate on the cost of the damage, but about 80% of the businesses on that stretch of boardwalk are believed to be a total loss. >> and listen, this is us. as soon as this is over, we will pick ourselves up and dust ourselves off and get back to work. >> investigators are not sure what started the fire. they know where it gone, but don't know why. governor christie is planning on holding a news conference at 10:30 this morning. from fire to flooding. that forced thousands to evacuate their homes in northern

colorado. flash floods trapped drivers and firefighters managed to rescue an infant in aurora. police shut down dozens of roads. they canceled classes for the second day in a row. hundreds of students have been told to evacuate. they mr. know to hold a conference at 10:00 a.m. more on the special edition five years after the financial melt down and the beginning of the session. for more on what improve and what hasn't, check out our website. you are watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. get paid to do something you really love, what would you do?" ♪ [ woman ] i'd be a writer. [ man ] i'd be a baker. [ woman ] i wanna be a pie maker. [ man ] i wanna be a pilot. [ woman ] i'd be an architect. what if i told you someone could pay you and what if that person were you?

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this is not the only nomination you can expect from the white house. to replace ben bernanke as the next chairman, but can he overcome the criticism he faces from the left and some from the right? the senior reporter and former democratic senator and press secretary to president bush and cnbc contributor and economist and a contributor to cnbc and the little book of economics. let me start with you. chris dodd would take the bait. who would be the easier confirmation? >> i think both of them would get confirmed. they are both good economists. larry has a different background

and different history with most people on the hill. >> more of a history. he knows them better. >> she has done a tremendous job and more familiar with the fed. has an excellent background. either one will do well. they are different personalities for sure. >> what do you think? >> some will be much larger. in the senate banking committee you have three democrats who will probably vote against them. elizabeth warren and brown. those will know. >> how many republicans in. >> that's not clear on the committee. the number two republican has already said he would vote against summers as well. everything is clear that the leadership does not want the fight, but rather they chose somebody easier to confirm. they keep the party united and not have to worry about a messy

battle. >> it seems that it's clear to m mow. i say that and you never want to say anything is 100%, but there is an active case against her that i hear. you don't hear necessarily, but the case against her. is she going to be able to leave the fed? there is a lot of whispering about why she is not the first. >> i think i may be in the smallest minority in washington to face the hill. it was very likely. >> i wouldn't believe that. introducing the politics of the women. >> i agree with senator lincoln. the candidates and excellent people. janet doesn't have the baggage that they bring to this. a lot of it is political.

>> it's not policy. >> some is policy. the policy and regulation. they believe a lot of democrats restrained the instincts of this president to go where he wanted to go and that bothers them. that's the left. from the right criticism, republicans blamed him not just for the stimulus and the economic policies, but even the last administration. there is this idea around the republicans that they are more likely to support larry. i don't see that out there. republicans only supply 22 votes for ben bernanke. >> to me the big difference between the two is do you want somebody at the fed who the fed chair when they speak it moves markets for better or worse.

janet yellin strikes me as someone who is careful with what she says. this is somebody that is not going to be a shy fed chair like ben bernanke. >> there is a lot of pyrotechnics. they are generally not words you want from the state. look. from policy point of view, they are similar. both are emphatic that the economy needs more stimulus and more inflation. you wouldn't get much different policy. the argument in my view comes down to what's the right type of purpose to run the central bank. you see a movement away from that personality driven style. towards a more technical committee-driven approach. you don't want the nation's policy in one man's brilliance. the choice between larry summers and janet yell up is do you want

the more low key approach or do you want the fate in the hands of one brilliant person. you get a good policy, but i pg the approach we have seen the last few years works better for the president. >> they have taken it. that is who the president's first choice is. all his advisers are pushing larry over that. take me back to those moments when there was this thought that you had to pass a crazy amount of bailout money. $700 billion. take me back to that moment and did you have -- what were your thoughts going oh, my god, this is going to be a disaster approximate it we don't do it and it's a disaster if we do. >> they both came to the senate and sat in a room with the democrats and republicans. >> this is may of 08. >> yes. we were all there concerned about the economy.

what do we need to do? they were like nothing. >> bernanke and paulson said that? >> they came back in the spring and we all asked. in september it was like the sky is falling right now. the steps have got to be taken. in terms of your perspective and market place. you are right. to we really have to move this quick low and there was a lot of reservation i think. >> i feel like it was the right thing to do and what chris and i did in the dodd frank bill. >> i feel like it impacts every vote these days. >> absolutely. >> brought up constantly. >> especially for 230eks who voted against them and come into the senate since.

the membership was folks who came in afterwards or a large percentage of them. now any time anyone is running for reelection, they know that that vote still comes up. >> how much of the $700 billion is used some. >> in banks, about 270 billion $. >> how much was taken some. >> every last dime of it. >> is that the irony? >> t.a.r.p. worked. >> the scars are still felt because after 9/11 we had war resolutions and the house and the senate. t.a.r.p. went down and to this day the country is divided about what should have been done. >> there was not that fear. >> it split apart. >> it's a good point. >> we talk more about this and live to switzerland and get the latest on the negotiations over syria's chemical weapons and republicans are struggling with

the economic disconnect between policies and values and the president is struggling on his stewardship of the e coknow 3450e. what the american people are thinking about. guess what is coming up. the white house soup of the day. it's seafood gumbo. we have to eat before sundown. we'll be right back. this is for you. ♪ [ male announcer ] bob's heart attack didn't come with a warning. today his doctor has him on a bayer aspirin regimen to help reduce the risk of another one. if you've had a heart attack, be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen. a man who doesn't stand still. but jim has afib, atrial fibrillation -- an irregular heartbeat, not caused by a heart valve problem. that puts jim at a greater risk of stroke.

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♪ ♪ others are designed to leave them behind. ♪ the all-new 2014 lexus is. it's your move. now to switzerland where there new developments this morning on the deal that could head off a u.s. military strike against syria. secretary kerry continues meetings against the russian counterpart on taking control. both sides have homework to do although he would not go into the details. >> i think we would both agree that we had a constructively conversation regarding that, but those conversations are continuing and both of us want to get back to them now.

>> nbc's chief foreign affairs correspondent is with john kerry in geneva. he said constructively and not productive. am i being too tough? >> constructively is better frank and candid. especially low dealing with the russians. it got off to a prickly start last night. terry spoke at length and i do mean at length. he was very edgy and the military jumped in and said he was not prepared for this and said sometimes diplomacy requires silence. they are back ator cany and went off to the meetings. you can only imagine when that went off. you have not been briefed today on how that is working, but they took a break this morning and went over to the un headquarters

to talk with the un representative. there was supposed to be peace talks in may and june and july. they have the opposition leaders that cooperate get their act together and decide who were the moderates who they represented here in geneva. that is the next stage and they did take a break and talked about that and came out on camera and agreed that they will meet again in new york at the un general assembly around september 28th to talk about how to jump-start. the arms control experts who came from both sides are in a meeting and talking about where is all this stuff? "wall street journal" is reporting today and we have reported previously that there was a special unit that is moving everything around to avoid detection by the u.s.

atomic energy agency about your concern that assad still has enriched uranium and the israelis did not get that when they bombed the reactor in syria. chuck? >> very quickly, the talks are going to end today and then what some they are not coming to an agreement, right? >> right. no, they will probably lapse over to tomorrow. we expect them through saturday and announce a framework for how to keep it going. no breakthroughs we expected. what would be news is if they broke up in disarray. they will be meeting in new york at the un in any case. this is a long process. this is arms control. >> fair enough. you are right. a veteran of covering those things as well. stay warm. looks cold there. trivia time. it was nicholas brady, the most recent person to serve under

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one of the unintended consequences of the great crash is attention to the debt ceiling. the country is expected to reach its debt limit by mid-october, which means president obama will once again need to make his case for an unpopular policy. our new poll shows 44% of americans do not think congress should raise the debt ceiling, but who has the most to lose in this fall's budget battles if it doesn't happen? let's bring back our gaggle. former senator -- here's the thing, in polling it's an automatically unpopular thing to

do and yet -- and the president now will have to expend political capital to explain it and make his case. yet if the republicans hold it hostage, they have a lot more to lose, don't they? >> they probably do. the problem right now is that the two sides are in completely different universes on how to move forward. the white house doesn't want to negotiate on the debt ceiling and republicans say we need to cut spending equal to the level that the debt ceiling would be raised. how this gets resolved is completely -- nobody has any idea right now and there's only a few more weeks before we hit the debt ceiling. >> and this is a political weapon that's the most useless piece of policy probably ever enacted by congress. >> but it's also a tool to remind the congress, though, that there's real people out there in this country who are faced with debt and it's a reality to them, you know. if their home is mortgaged and they have got a car payment and, you know, they have got everything on credit cards and they don't pay their bills and they don't, you know, keep their debt down, they have got a problem.

so i think, you know, congress needs to at least listen to what your average person out there is saying about it. >> but on this one, tony, here's the irony. the deficit is on our trajectory in a better place than it was the last couple of times. >> yeah, it is. but having spending fights is great. but the natural and healthy place to do that is on the cr, it's on the budget. >> the debt ceiling and threatening the global economy -- >> it's dangerous. it's dangerous because the whole nature of the law is kind of stupid. it's begging -- asking the administration to beg for money to pay for -- >> that's already been spent. >> that's already been spent and required to be spent by congress. so it's just crazy. >> it's totally -- it's totally messed up. greg, the very real issue is the economy is dependent on it now. >> well, it absolutely is. i don't know if people realize that if you do not raise the debt ceiling, it must drop to zero instantly, which means you need to cut spending by $700 billion today and do it in a very arbitrary way. he doesn't get a social security

check, a medicare check. >> what the republicans want to do is move the cr, the debt ceiling and sequestration, all having an expire or start about the same time, which would be january. so that's probably what we see here is very small incremental stuff in order to lump it into one fight. >> that's assuming they can get anything through the house. >> and that's a big problem. democrats are telling boehner, you go find your 218 on your own. >> that's why we saw him pull it because he didn't have the votes. >> shameless plugs, blanch lincoln. who do you play tonight? >> it's open. don't have a game. well, the talk about debt and everything else, the economy, i think one of the greatest things we can do is empower small businesses. i encourage some more sensible regulations coming out of washington to do so. >> tony. >> september 12th, my pirates are in first place in the nl central division. i'll see them this weekend. >> he is the most anti-rabid --

>> never too late to learn about economics and crisis. >> my colleague, john brezner and i have a story up on politico about how democrats plan to use david vitter's past sins against him on the floor in a bitter floor fight over obama care. >> how about that? that's it for this edition of "the daily rundown." to my jewish friends and family, have an easy fast, a good weekend. we've got the hicken looper press conference right at the top of the hour. we need a new recipe. hmmm. let us consult the scroll of infinite deliciousness. ♪ oh! perfect. [ wisest kid ] campbell's has the recipes kids love. like easy chicken and cheese enchiladas. so good! can i keep this? you already have it at campbellskitchen.com. nice. [ blows ] [ gong ] m'm! m'm! good!

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congested. beat down. crushed. as if the weight of the world is resting on your face. but sudafed gives you maximum strength sinus pressure and pain relief. so you feel free. liberated. released. decongested. open for business. [ inhales, exhales ] [ male announcer ] powerful sinus relief from the #1 pharmacist recommended brand. sudafed. open up. good morning. i'm chris jansing and it is a very busy friday with three big developing stories this morning. not even a year after hurricane sandy devastated the jersey shore, a massive ten-alarm fire has ripped through that same area. this morning investigators are searching for a cause. the recently rebuilt boardwalk and dozens of businesses have been reduced to ashes. >> it is just unthinkable.

i feel like i want to throw up. >> and we're expecting to hear from the governor of colorado. an entire region soaked by floodwaters with at least three people dead and more evacuations of thousands of people in the boulder area. and in afghanistan, the state department is condemning a taliban suicide car bombing outside the u.s. consulate that killed a police officer and security guard. a gun fight followed while american employees were in lockdown inside. we'll get some inside from msnbc military analyst and retired army general barry mccaffrey. we are expecting live events, again, in both of those domestic locations, in colorado and in new jersey and we will have live reports from the scene. but let's start overseas where taliban fighters launched a major assault on the u.s. consulate overnight. the state department says that no americans were killed, but according to